Harry Potter & The Deathly Hallows

[Mara]

It isn't really "calling" out to him. He shares the connection through Voldemort and himself being a horcrux. It's an advantage they admit he has.

Yeah, that's the way the film played it. 8 was pointing out that the books tell it differently-- that he actually finds the horcruxes through various puzzle-solving ways.

[number8]

http://www.mocktopus.com/2011/07/books-eight-through-twenty/

[number8]

This was exactly my thought during the movie:

http://i.imgur.com/5JIxC.jpg

[Morris Schæffer]

Yeah, that's the way the film played it. 8 was pointing out that the books tell it differently-- that he actually finds the horcruxes through various puzzle-solving ways.

Yeah, i faintly recall it being a bit of a challenge in the book with, as you say, puzzle-solving.

@raiders: you are also correct of course. The movie explains how harry is able to hear the horcruxes so I can't say it cheats, but still...

@number8: forgot about that. Thanks!

[Marley]

Bwhahaha, that is hilarious Number8!!. :lol:

[Henry Gale]

I'm still confused as to how the audience is actually supposed to read that exchange. Me and my friends seemed like the only ones laughing when it happened.

[Mara]

I'm still confused as to how the audience is actually supposed to read that exchange. Me and my friends seemed like the only ones laughing when it happened.

I felt like they were telegraphing a joke, but I couldn't tell what it was. I'm pretty sure Hermione was lying, though? She spent months in a tent with him.

[Qrazy]

Just saw it. Agreed about the pacing, very bad, and I only saw part one for the first time two days ago so even viewing the two films as a whole it doesn't really change the issues with part two.

Also I accepted it when I read the books but I'm starting to feel the whole elder wand plotline is a bit absurd. I can buy that it favored Draco after he disarmed Dumbledore... but that it favored Harry after Harry disarmed Draco's regular wand? I don't know. Okay fine, Draco's regular wand now favored Harry. But I feel like it's a bit of a stretch that a wand that is not being wielded would also shift allegiance.

[Sxottlan]

I think it's also because the conceptual underpinnings of the Star Wars and Potter universes are quite different.

Nicely said. I noticed that after Goblet of Fire. Interesting reversal of color symbolism from Star Wars to this and more indicative of perhaps a western philosophy of passion and emotion being preferable to cool detachment, which can be seen as a more Taoist idea.

[Mara]

Amusing Slate article with two people who have never seen/read HP trying to puzzle out the final film.

http://www.slate.com/id/2299131

[[ETM]]

"I'm allergic to both the fantasy genre..."

*stops reading*

[EyesWideOpen]

There was a big article in a local paper called "I hate Harry Potter" and then the writer says he's never seen one of the movies or read one of the books.

[number8]

Continuing what Mara wanted to talk about a few pages back...

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo8xjahRpJ1qcty7yo1_500 .jpg

Oh boy.

[DavidSeven]

I watched all of these films for the first time over the past two weeks. Never read the books. Completely unaware of the general reception of each film in relation to the others.

The Sorcerer's Stone - **
The Chamber of Secrets - *1/2
The Prisoner of Azkaban - **1/2
The Goblet of Fire - ***
The Order of the Phoenix - ***1/2
The Half-Blood Prince - **
The Deathly Hallows (as one film) - ***1/2

I thought the finale was handled about as well as one could reasonably expect from something of this scale. I'm struggling to think of an equivalent from any other mega film series. Very well-done and very moving.

The series, as a whole, suffers from over-abundant exposition/plot. It's made worthwhile with seemingly impeccable casting (have to give Columbus his due for selecting the early players) and some, at times, genuinely interesting direction. Yates was a revelation in Order of the Phoenix, and Cuaron directed the shit out of the overly-plotted Prisoner of Azkaban. Newell's limp direction in Goblet of Fire benefited from an enthralling and comparably straightforward story. Plenty of ups and downs, but I'm glad I gave this a shot.

[Thirdmango]

I finally got around to watching the Deathly Hollows Part 1. One of the reasons it did take me so long was the first half of book seven was easily my least favorite part of the entire series, so the moment I heard the movies were being split into two I knew I would have a hard time with the movie. I did remember however that near the beginning of this thread people were fawning over this movie so I did give it a chance. I will say this movie is better then the first half of book seven but I think I just have too many problems with the story at this point for the movie to do it any justice. I did go back and read through and would agree the animation bit was really cool, and that there were some amazing outdoor shots but other then that I just don't see the appeal of this part of the story. Hey look they're brooding in the woods. At least the movie only had like 40 minutes of them brooding in the woods instead of the near 3-6 hours it took me to read it.

I'd probably put myself as a mild fan of the series as a whole. I do own 5 of the 7 books and I did read the seventh the moment it came out to keep from being spoiled, and I did like the ending quite a bit. With that being said I just don't have the almighty love and the forgiveness for the crap. I think 6 so far was my favorite movie of the series and I understand the need for this part of the story as a segue. Maybe 2 1/2 stars?

[Yxklyx]

I just watched these last two. They were both rather mediocre though I liked the first one more. I easily preferred Half Blood Prince to all the others. One major problem with the films is its affliction of cameoitis. Tons of characters that are on screen for a mere 3-5 seconds.

[Dukefrukem]

Part 1: :|

Maybe I just didn't pay attention to the underlining story but I have no idea what the fuck is going on... is it supposed to be obvious why everyone they introduced in the past is now a bad guy?

[Dukefrukem]

At least the movie only had like 40 minutes of them brooding in the woods instead of the near 3-6 hours it took me to read it.



Jesus it felt to me like they spent 3-6 hours in the woods. Another movie completely dragged out to milk consumers of their cash. It's pathetic how badly managed this franchise is.

[Raiders]

Part 1: :|

Maybe I just didn't pay attention to the underlining story but I have no idea what the fuck is going on... is it supposed to be obvious why everyone they introduced in the past is now a bad guy?

What???

[EyesWideOpen]

I'm fine with you not caring for these movies Duke but nothing in them is "dragged out to milk consumers".

[Dukefrukem]

I'm fine with you not caring for these movies Duke but nothing in them is "dragged out to milk consumers".

Splitting this movie into two parts is unnecessary.

[Raiders]

Splitting this movie into two parts is unnecessary.

You sure you aren't thinking of the Twilight movies? This is one of the most artistically successful and sound two-parters there is. The second film functions as the final all out assault and stands very well on its own.

[Dukefrukem]

We'll see. One to go.

But as for this franchise in general;

It just feels like they keep making things up as they go along. Everything can be fixed with a spell or potion and there's an excuse for everything. It's hard to be immersed in this universe when there's no real logic to follow. Oh just erase their memory. Oh just create a charm. Arm falling off? Get me two drops of secret healy stuff FAST!

Continuity Issues everywhere. When Dumbledore was pushed out of the tower? Why didn't he just teleport like he and Harry had JUST done? (that's what I would have done)

Why is Voldemort "gaining power"? Is this explained?
Why did Snape to make an Unbreakable Vow to aid Draco? Why is he suddenly a bad guy?
Why was Draco "chosen"? Where did the "Room of Requirement" come from? It just appeared in the last movie. Why wasn't it used before?

Thank god for Wikipedia. The dual in the bathroom between Draco and Harry. Silly ole me just thought they were shooting light at each other, but apparently "Draco attempts to cast the Cruciatus Curse. Harry is faster to the draw with an obscure Sectumsempra spell that he learned from the mysterious Half-Blood Prince's book".

and finally, why is every professor introduced in past films sitting at the round table with Voldemort? Dolores Umbridge?

[Raiders]

It just feels like they keep making things up as they go along. Everything can be fixed with a spell or potion and there's an excuse for everything. It's hard to be immersed in this universe when there's no real logic to follow.

I agree with this issue, but it seems rather inherent to the story. I just learned to accept it.


Oh just erase their memory.

This is one of the saddest moments in the series. Sometimes having the ability to do something and feeling the responsibility to use that gift is its own curse.


Oh just create a charm. Arm falling off? Get me two drops of secret healy stuff FAST!

Do you ever read or watch stuff that has magic in it? This isn't really a new concept.


Continuity Issues everywhere. When Dumbledore was pushed out of the tower? Why didn't he just teleport like he and Harry had JUST done? (that's what I would have done)

He's not pushed, he's killed by a spell. This is obvious.


Why is Voldemort "gaining power"? Is this explained?

Kind of. I just always viewed it as he was still regaining his previous power after being brought back from the "dead."


Snape to make an Unbreakable Vow to aid Draco? Why is he suddenly a bad guy?

Snape is given a great scene in the final film to help explain his motives, but he has never been a good guy. His allegiances have always been a question, including Harry seeing past moments in the pensieve where he is outed as a prior Death Eater when Voldemort originally reigned before the events of the series.


Why was Draco "chosen"? Where did the "Room of Requirement" come from? It just appeared in the last movie. Why wasn't it used before?

Fair questions, but these are honestly minor quibbles, no?


Thank god for Wikipedia. The dual in the bathroom between Draco and Harry. Silly ole me just thought they were shooting light at each other, but apparently "Draco attempts to cast the Cruciatus Curse. Harry is faster to the draw with an obscure Sectumsempra spell that he learned from the mysterious Half-Blood Prince's book".

One of the great things that the later, Yates-directed movies do in my opinion is ignore all the silly incantations and just treat the wands essentially as guns and weapons. I like that they are basically firing shots each other. It's an action movie with teenagers.


and finally, why is every professor introduced in past films sitting at the round table with Voldemort? Dolores Umbridge?

It isn't really a secret that Umbridge is evil, is it?

[Dukefrukem]

No it wasn't a secret, but why where they brought in as professors to begin with? for 2 or 3 movies new professors kept getting hired. You'd think if they were to be around children, their background would be checked? Even Snape being there for so long. Everyone turns out to be a traitor. Reminds me of the problems that cocured durin the 24 Series. How many double agents can infiltrate CTU?

But thanks for addressing my points. I do agree that sometimes I bring small quibbles into arguments, but they compound on top of each other and eventually I get annoyed. It wasn't obvious to me that he was "killed by a spell". Wikipedia: "Avada Kedavra: Causes instant, painless death to whomever the curse hits. There is no countercurse or method of blocking this spell" Why doesn't everyone just cast this ALL THE TIME?

The whole Death Eater philosophy is stupid to me. They want to rid the world of Muggles and only allow Pure Bloods when Voldemort himself is a Half-Blood. It makes no fucking sense.

[number8]

:lol:

I can point out to scenes in the films that answered every single one of your questions, but fuck it, that would be exhausting. Let's just accept that you don't like the series and you're watching just for the sake of watching.

[Dukefrukem]

Yes I know. I'm not as astute as you 8.

[number8]

If you say so. You're certainly much more patient, though. If I had your complaints, I would've given up several 2.5 hour movies ago.

[Kurosawa Fan]

No it wasn't a secret, but why where they brought in as professors to begin with? for 2 or 3 movies new professors kept getting hired. You'd think if they were to be around children, their background would be checked? Even Snape being there for so long. Everyone turns out to be a traitor. Reminds me of the problems that cocured durin the 24 Series. How many double agents can infiltrate CTU?

This was my major issue with the books. It became laughable that every time a new teacher was hired, you knew they would be bad news and be gone at the end of the year.



The whole Death Eater philosophy is stupid to me. They want to rid the world of Muggles and only allow Pure Bloods when Voldemort himself is a Half-Blood. It makes no fucking sense.

I think in this way it's supposed to mirror Hitler's rise, and his belief in eugenics, and how his ideal race looked nothing like him. At least, that's how I read it.

[number8]

I think in this way it's supposed to mirror Hitler's rise, and his belief in eugenics, and how his ideal race looked nothing like him. At least, that's how I read it.

It is. It's classic self-hate bigotry. See also: closeted homophobes.

[Qrazy]

One of the great things that the later, Yates-directed movies do in my opinion is ignore all the silly incantations and just treat the wands essentially as guns and weapons. I like that they are basically firing shots each other. It's an action movie with teenagers.


Not sure why this is great. Kind of reduces the complexity of magic to something rather banal, common place and old hat. The type of spell you're throwing at one another has significance, they aren't all just blasty spells.

[Qrazy]

This was my major issue with the books. It became laughable that every time a new teacher was hired, you knew they would be bad news and be gone at the end of the year.


I agree with complains about the original series redundancy and silliness but in fairness a few times in the series this expectation is turned on it's head.

[Raiders]

Not sure why this is great. Kind of reduces the complexity of magic to something rather banal, common place and old hat. The type of spell you're throwing at one another has significance, they aren't all just blasty spells.

Because I couldn't care less about the silly spells and find that the progression of the series from "hey look, magic is awesome and cute!" to "how can I use magic to destroy as many people and things as possible" is really personified by the reduction of wands to instruments of destruction and death.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I agree with complains about the original series redundancy and silliness but in fairness a few times in the series this expectation is turned on it's head.

Not really. Even when it was, such as Lupin, they were still deemed bad for the school and forced to depart at the end of the year. Sure, he wasn't trying to kill Harry, but the formula remains largely the same. It was poor writing, plain and simple.

[Raiders]

Not really. Even when it was, such as Lupin, they were still deemed bad for the school and forced to depart at the end of the year. Sure, he wasn't trying to kill Harry, but the formula remains largely the same. It was poor writing, plain and simple.

What about Slughorn?

[Kurosawa Fan]

What about Slughorn?

Who was Slughorn? I don't remember him. Or her.

EDIT: Nevermind, just looked him up. Well, technically he's there for a second year, but Harry isn't at the school. He's off finding horcruxes.

[Raiders]

Who was Slughorn? I don't remember him. Or her.

Jim Broadbent.

[Kurosawa Fan]

See above comment. I should have just looked him up in the first place. Bad habit.

[Raiders]

Who was Slughorn? I don't remember him. Or her.

EDIT: Nevermind, just looked him up. Well, technically he's there for a second year, but Harry isn't at the school. He's off finding horcruxes.

That was the point though, he returns for another year. And he also is initially expected of being evil by Harry and he turns out not to be. My point was that he doesn't follow the same formula.

The actual formula being discussed is something I always thought was intended as a running joke. The Dark Arts teacher is always evil or will be gone by the end of the year.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Well, like I said, even when the formula is flipped, where the incoming teacher isn't evil (but is suspected of evil, like Slughorn or Lupin), it's still a quick stay at Hogwarts. I guess you could say that Slughorn avoids this by staying on, but he still plays almost no role in the next book because Harry isn't there. Yes, the Dark Arts teacher constantly being evil is a more prevalent formula, but the formula of "new teacher same result," insofar as they create chaos and leave at the end of the year (again, Slughorn being a slight deviation), is just as lazy, if not more so.

[Mr. McGibblets]

I thought the position was actually supposed to be cursed, at least until Snape gets it. And curses in things like this always hold up.

[Qrazy]

Because I couldn't care less about the silly spells and find that the progression of the series from "hey look, magic is awesome and cute!" to "how can I use magic to destroy as many people and things as possible" is really personified by the reduction of wands to instruments of destruction and death.

Ok but that's really just your lack of interest in the world building though but I can't say I blame you as this is not Rowling's forte. But for instance if someone ever finally adapted Wheel of Time and did not pay close attention to the spells they create I would be pissed, because spell battles at their best are the equivalent of a game of chess. You aren't just trying to blast your opponent, you have to outwit whatever they're throwing at you. Of course you have to establish the rules of the game (i.e. all the spells you can use) prior for it to play out like a chess game. Anime series like Death Note, Hikaru No Go and Naruto use this chess mentality fairly well in battles.

[Qrazy]

Well, like I said, even when the formula is flipped, where the incoming teacher isn't evil (but is suspected of evil, like Slughorn or Lupin), it's still a quick stay at Hogwarts. I guess you could say that Slughorn avoids this by staying on, but he still plays almost no role in the next book because Harry isn't there. Yes, the Dark Arts teacher constantly being evil is a more prevalent formula, but the formula of "new teacher same result," insofar as they create chaos and leave at the end of the year (again, Slughorn being a slight deviation), is just as lazy, if not more so.

Okay but that's a different issue. I agree with you that Rowling is a fairly mediocre writer all in all and is making her Boxcar Children/Encyclopedia Brown equivalent with these books. That said, she does have the awareness to play around with the formula whether it's Lupin, Slughorn, Snape, Gilderoy or Mad Eye Moody.

It isn't just new dark arts teacher = evil. Rowling sets up the formula and then manipulates it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Eh, I suppose. It's a very weak manipulation. "Let's just throw the opposite at them! That'll fool 'em!"

[Dukefrukem]

Haha what'da know... another secret passage that we only learn about until the final chapter. Awesome writing.

[Raiders]

Haha what'da know... another secret passage that we only learn about until the final chapter. Awesome writing.
Wht are you referring to?

[Dukefrukem]

Wht are you referring to?

How they get back into Hogwarts. Seemed like a weak attempt to avoid the massive amounts of flying demon things.

But I have to admit, this was a much better movie than it's predecessor. Seeing Snapes memories connected a lot of the dots and answered a lot of questions I had.

[Qrazy]

Eh, I suppose. It's a very weak manipulation. "Let's just throw the opposite at them! That'll fool 'em!"

It's not just the opposite as I just said a second ago. Mad Eye Moody is not just working for Voldemort, he was replaced but the original is good. Gilderoy wasn't working for Voldemort either he was just bad in his own way. Lupin wasn't bad. And Snape is an entirely different story.

[Dukefrukem]

Oh and; Dues Ex Machina ending much?

So Snape was in love with Harry's mom and he and Dumbledore had planned for his death the entire time... We find this out through memories, which isn't too deflating because at least it explains why Snape was always so cold to Harry. I can deal with that...

But then I was fully expecting Harry to die in the end because he was the last Horcrux and needed to be destroyed... (FINALLY! A use for the symbol on his forehead and the climax for the entire story!!!) That would have been a great ending! But I shouldn't be surprised that they write around this by having Harry visit purgatory where some ghost of Dumbledore kindly explains to him that he doesn't need to die anymore. :rolleyes:

[Raiders]

But then I was fully expecting Harry to die in the end because he was the last Horcrux and needed to be destroyed... (FINALLY! A use for the symbol on his forehead and the climax for the entire story!!!) That would have been a great ending! But I shouldn't be surprised that they write around this by having Harry visit purgatory where some ghost of Dumbledore kindly explains to him that he doesn't need to die anymore. :rolleyes:

I admit the movie doesn't really explicitly say it and the train station is certainly a cheesy concept (though I think very artfully handled in the film), but they give you the explanation at the very end:

The Elder Wand's allegiance was to Harry; therefore it could not harm him. It killed the Voldemort part of his soul and rebounded to Voldemort himself (why he was also unconscious until Harry returned). The train station seems to me more of an unconscious dream than an actual limbo, but he is given the choice to not return though not sure this isn't just motivational speak by his own subconscious.

[Dukefrukem]

I admit the movie doesn't really explicitly say it and the train station is certainly a cheesy concept (though I think very artfully handled in the film), but they give you the explanation at the very end:

The Elder Wand's allegiance was to Harry; therefore it could not harm him. It killed the Voldemort part of his soul and rebounded to Voldemort himself (why he was also unconscious until Harry returned). The train station seems to me more of an unconscious dream than an actual limbo, but he is given the choice to not return though not sure this isn't just motivational speak by his own subconscious.

The train station analogy was also used in the Matrix Revolutions, so I was bit annoyed at that too. Thank you again for your spoiler explanation.

At any point in the series, was there talk about wands and how they are bound to certain people? I know this was a big deal when Harry's broke and when Drako had his "stolen", but I feel like this was probably made more obvious in the books rather than causal watchers. I wouldn't have remembered the soul bounding aspects if it was explained in movie 1 or 2.

[Raiders]

At any point in the series, was there talk about wands and how they are bound to certain people?

I'm pretty sure there was, though I admittedly get lost between what I know from the books and what was actually explained in the movies. I definitely remember them going through how a wand chooses the owner. They must have mentioned wands and their allegiances at some point.

[number8]

They did, I think in the first part of DH.

[number8]

http://i.imgur.com/6Uy4QtS.jpg?1

[Watashi]

Not related to the picture above (which is funny), but I'm enrolled in a Harry Potter class this semester. On the first day of class, they are going to sort the class into the 4 houses. I hope I get Ravenclaw.

[Watashi]

I got Hufflepuff. :(

[EyesWideOpen]

I got Hufflepuff. :(

Sounds about right.

[[ETM]]

:lol:

I swear, I almost posted "We all know you're Hufflepuff material, Wats" yesterday.