Speed Racer

[Grouchy]

I'm fucking frustrated. Just when we were all set and ready to GO!, my friend has to go away on business for the weekend. Next weekend I'll be participating in a short movie, so... I won't be able to live the Fear and Loathing in IMAX experience until the next weekend.

I imagine the movie will still be there, but the momentum is all off. I was all excited about this.

[Rowland]

A piece by Rob Humanick on the state of film journalism inspired by Speed Racer and Dennis Cozzalio's recent blog post on the subject. (http://projectionbooth.blogspot.com/2008/05/bad-journalism-pet-peeves-of-film.html)

I might try to see this today.

[Sycophant]

A piece by Rob Humanick on the state of film journalism inspired by Speed Racer and Dennis Cozzalio's recent blog post on the subject. (http://projectionbooth.blogspot.com/2008/05/bad-journalism-pet-peeves-of-film.html)

I might try to see this today.Thanks for the link. I sunk a good deal of time on both this and Cozzalio's pieces.

Looking forward to your thoughts when you see this one.

[number8]

That's a great read. I've ben meaning on writing something about Speed Racer's critical reaction, too. Mostly, I'm beginning to really believe that story is the most overrated device in a film. The article has given me much to think about. Thanks for that.

[Sven]

I agree with what he says and I disagree with what he says. I like that he's willing to suggest that the formers of popular opinion (the critics) are often reactionary and don't really WATCH the movies they review. They respond to them in terms of their preconceived notions about it. I love that.

But I disagree with his ambiguous "all movies have worth" stuff. I can't tell from this piece where the basis of his forming a negative opinion of a film would lie. Exactly what does he consider of worth and what doesn't he? He's being very vague.

[balmakboor]

you can listen to the radio between your favorite driver and their pit crew

Man oh man. That sounds so cool it makes me wish I had a favorite driver -- or that I even knew any of the drivers' names. I wonder if each team has people listening in on the competitor's driver/crew conversations. If so, I wonder if they talk in code to try to fake each other out.

[lovejuice]

it's amazing. i'm not that sold during the first half an hour, but the movie wins me over. it's flawed but fun in a way an anime should be. my only complain is the too involving politic and plot line; i have trouble following some twists and turns.

it's not a movie, but an experience. a term i think best described arthouse than marketable affair. agree with whoever says speed racer is the most expensive art film ever made.

and, oh, critics are such douche.

[Raiders]

and, oh, critics are such douche.

:|

[Sven]

Hooray! It gets better as it goes along. I found Ricci's mugging very irritating, and the whole talking heads rotating and swiping the screen to different angles of the talking heads got old REAL fast. But I loved the line action and a lot of the conceptual art (the zebras running on the racetrack were exceptional, and one of the tumbles in the desert--with the arcing traces of sand--was phenomenal). Fun fights, simple theme, a bit long but I didn't mind. One of the few things in effects cinema that is nearly impossible for me to abide is the transparent blue screen effect, which happens here a bit too much. The media mixture (live-action/CG) was a tad flawed. Certainly not the technical revolution some of its praisers are making it out to be (it does nothing that was not already conquered by Tron, which is essentially the same film but better processed), but it takes what it wants and mostly succeeds.

Three things:

1 "Is that a ninja?!"
"More like a NON-ja."

2 Freebird? WTF to the max, but OMG, love it!

3 Three words: monkey. end. credits.

***1/2, initially. I can see myself knocking it down to three. Oh, I also dug the two moments in the movie where when Speed and Trixie get googly-eyed, the flowers and the camera flashes turn into hearts.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Sweet. I'm glad you liked it.

[Sycophant]

A) Awesome.
B) Fine. I'll watch Tron.

[Watashi]

Match Cut - 10
Raiders - 0

[Rowland]

I have a feeling I'll side with most of you, so I can't wait to finally see this.

[Raiders]

This has become a very ugly quirk.

[number8]

All the positive reaction here is making me think that I should get off my ass and write that story-damning article.

[Sven]

A couple of hours later, I find myself dwelling more than I probably should on the poorly processed blue screening effects in a few major shots. If it wasn't such a pet peeve of mine, I'd surely've been more enthusiastic. I find myself wishing the whole film was CG, characters and all.

And Cozzalio's right, I think, to compare it to the cinema of De Palma, for the reasons he cites about the blending of "technique and social terror to create often grandiose, bitterly funny and enthralling visions typically pockmarked with the kind of narrative flaws that are diminished, and sometimes redeemed, by the sheer audacity of his style." I immediately thought of the rotating shots in Blow Out and Obsession and how frequently (too frequently, I think) the Wachowskis copped that move (copped by Hitch, initially).

Love that goddamn monkey.

[Bosco B Thug]

Eh, I'm still not convinced there's much to this picture. But I am glad people here are liking it.

[Skitch]

I was shocked at how much I enjoyed Speed Racer. Big thumbs up here.

[Spinal]

Eh, I'm still not convinced there's much to this picture.

What is it that you think it should have that it lacks?

[Skitch]

Hard Candy (Slade, 2005) *




Boooooooooooooooooo.

[Spinal]

Boooooooooooooooooo.

Sorry, that's as low as my rating system goes.

[number8]

Sorry, that's as low as my rating system goes.

Too bad. I'd given it a 0, myself.

[Bosco B Thug]

What is it that you think it should have that it lacks? Oh, I dunno, any numerous amount of things. I don't find the Wachowski's directing any more than serviceable, for one. Two, is there really anything memorable or complex about the characters and story? Any striking subtextual element? I was waiting for them to make something out of that monkey. Why does it deserve their love? More Trixie, too, they could've done something more with her, like her implicit thing for gearheads. Oh, a fetishistic look at motor parts. I'd love that. Some A, maybe, no T. Etc.

Oh yeah, and that Snake guy and his penchant for "turd" quips was really strange.

[Spinal]

Oh, I dunno, any numerous amount of things. I don't find the Wachowski's directing any more than serviceable, for one. Two, is there really anything memorable or complex about the characters and story? Any striking subtextual element? I was waiting for them to make something out of that monkey. Why does it deserve their love? More Trixie, too, they could've done something more with her, like her implicit thing for gearheads. Oh, a fetishistic look at motor parts. I'd love that. Some A, maybe, no T. Etc.



I don't think a deep story or more complex characters would serve the film well. Not all films need that. Indeed, to some films, such things are detrimental. Do we really need a subtextual element for Speed Racer? It's just a fun family film. Seems like it would be nothing but burdensome in this case. More Trixie ... sure.

[Thirdmango]

It's interesting to see that some were expecting a lot out of the story considering I think they held true to the amount of story that is in the cartoon. Having watched a lot of the cartoon they made a really true adaptation, where the show was much more so about cool races.

[Henry Gale]

You guys weren't kidding.

That was the most fun I've had at the theatre in too long. The effects weren't always perfect (the Hawaiian race and the tour of Royalton Industries especially looked far less polished than, say, the first and last race), the characters only work with the idea that they're basically anime characters dropped into a slightly real world and I thought the story had a few inconsistencies. But who cares?

The movie absolutely grabs hold of your senses and throws you into this ridiculous cracked-out ride that just like a dream, you accept where you are even if you don't exactly understand what you're seeing, But once it's done, you want to go right back. But I assume you all know that by now.

I was going to give it ***1/2 out of ****, but everything I say reminds me that it's pretty much my favourite film so far this year, so:

**** / ****

[origami_mustache]

I really want to see this now, after seeing so many positive reactions.

[Russ]

Saw it this weekend. Agree that Raiders is :crazy:

[Sven]

Saw it this weekend. Agree that Raiders is :crazy:

Sweeeet.

Have to admit, the positive is growing stronger in my memory.

[Russ]

Sweeeet.

Have to admit, the positive is growing stronger in my memory.
Yup. And my favorite non-effects bits are the scenes with Sarandon and Goodman. Especially liked Mom's speech comparing Speed's racing to Art. How cool (and self referential) was that?

Could've done with less of Spritle's mugging (minor quibble), but Chim Chim was golden.

[Sven]

Could've done with less of Spritle's mugging (minor quibble), but Chim Chim was golden.

The end credits were just about the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.

[Raiders]

Saw it this weekend. Agree that Raiders is :crazy:

Hey, you guys can have it. I don't want to spoil anyone of their happiness in film. But, I still think you're all insane.

[trotchky]

The scenes with Spritle and Chim Chim are the cinematic equivalent of a colonoscopy.

[Sycophant]

The scenes with Spritle and Chim Chim are the cinematic equivalent of a colonoscopy.I just called my doctor and scheduled a colonoscopy for Wednesday.

[number8]

I just called my doctor and scheduled a colonoscopy for Wednesday.

I ordered two.

[Teecee]

Any scene set to Freebird is several ballparks away from a colonoscopy.

[Sven]

Any scene set to Freebird is several ballparks away from a colonoscopy.

Best scene of the year. Seriously.

[[ETM]]

My girlfriend went to see it with two friends, and the show was canceled.

The three of them were the only ones who showed up.:crazy:

[eternity]

;68316']My girlfriend went to see it with two friends, and the show was canceled.

The three of them were the only ones who showed up.:crazy:
I've never heard of a screening being canceled because of a lack of attendance. That stinks though, this movie definitely needs to be seen a lot more than it is.

[[ETM]]

I've never heard of a screening being canceled because of a lack of attendance.

Most theatres I know have a limit, five mostly I think.

[Ivan Drago]

It was pretty good. The visuals were amazing and the movie is entertaining as a whole, but in the beginning, there were times when I didn't know what was going on and who was who, but part of that could be because I'm not at all familiar with the cartoon. I understood more as it went along though, so I enjoyed more as it went along.

I might like it more on a 2nd viewing.

[Spinal]

This is the thread in which we discuss Speed Racer.

[Raiders]

This film is killing this site. It's a virus that has seeped in and changed the very make-up of our site. Fuck you, Speed.

[Pop Trash]

This film is killing this site. It's a virus that has seeped in and changed the very make-up of our site. Fuck you, Speed.
Amen brother.

[Raiders]

Amen brother.

It's important to remember that I'm blaming both sides. Putting a nasty comment towards the film in every post is something akin to what I would expect to see at an RT board. You criticized us for being no different because the site, by and large, likes the film. But, many here have posted defenses of the film. You make snooty comments. Which is a better departure from RT? I think most take offense to the attitude, not your opinion. Hell, I hate the film too, but so far only a few rotten veggies have been tossed my way.

[Ivan Drago]

This is the thread in which we discuss Speed Racer.

I'm aware of that.

Wait, was that post even directed to me?

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm aware of that.

Wait, was that post even directed to me?

No. It was meant for Pop Trash.

[Ivan Drago]

No. It was meant for Pop Trash.

Ah. My mistake.

But you all loving Speed Racer makes me feel better about loving Superbad. I'm not the lone crazy on this site after all. ;)

[Ezee E]

Ah. My mistake.

But you all loving Speed Racer makes me feel better about loving Superbad. I'm not the lone crazy on this site after all. ;)
But you didn't like Speed Racer.

So you still hold the title with pride.

[Ivan Drago]

But you didn't like Speed Racer.

So you still hold the title with pride.

Er...I liked it. Just not as much as you guys.

[Skitch]

This reminds me of The Cabin Fever Event over at Axis. :D

[Grouchy]

I had the Fear and Loathing in IMAX experience on Tuesday.

IMAX rocks. It was an unusual time, I guess, because the three of us were practically alone in the huge theater.

Amazing movie. Whoever suggested the chimp ending credits is a genius and deserves to be paid a lot of money.

[origami_mustache]

still makes me happy just thinking about this movie.

[eternity]

still makes me happy just thinking about this movie.I know what you mean.

[KK2.0]

I had the Fear and Loathing in IMAX experience on Tuesday.

IMAX rocks. It was an unusual time, I guess, because the three of us were practically alone in the huge theater.

Amazing movie. Whoever suggested the chimp ending credits is a genius and deserves to be paid a lot of money.

by Fear and Loathing experience you mean

watching Speed Racer on acid? :)


while i watched it, i couldn't avoid the thought that every damn advertising art director would want to copy the film's many visual tricks and style, to my surprise, i haven't heard anything until now... did the film flopped?

[Grouchy]

by Fear and Loathing experience you mean

watching Speed Racer on acid? :)

Yeah, exactly. No feelings of fear or paranoia involved, actually. I just stayed there flippin' and enjoying every minute, sometimes laughing like a madman. I was more scared by the Kung-Fu Panda trailer than the actual movie.

At one point we started laughing at the monkey and laughed out loud like 10 minutes, well past the monkey scene and during one of the dramatic moments. Good thing the IMAX was practically empty.

[Morris Schæffer]

Meteoro, la pelÃ*cula

Speed Racer, In Mexico.

:)

[Duncan]

I sooo regret not seeing this in theaters. I'm going to sleep now, but I must say that Speed Racer has got me thinking. One of the better films of the year. I should have read this thread earlier. Probably would have convinced me to see it.

"Oh my god, was that a ninja?" is my favourite line reading of the year. Looking back, monolith compared this film to Lichtenstein. That line reminded me so strongly of one of his paintings. I think the film was filled with interesting ideas, pretty much all of them dissected from plot or character. When the film was pure media it was awesome.

[Watashi]

I sooo regret not seeing this in theaters. I'm going to sleep now, but I must say that Speed Racer has got me thinking. One of the better films of the year. I should have read this thread earlier. Probably would have convinced me to see it.

"Oh my god, was that a ninja?" is my favourite line reading of the year. Looking back, monolith compared this film to Lichtenstein. That line reminded me so strongly of one of his paintings. I think the film was filled with interesting ideas, pretty much all of them dissected from plot or character. When the film was pure media it was awesome.

Oh wow. Awesome. It really is more than fast cars and bright colors.

Glad you loved it.

[Grouchy]

Meteoro, la pelÃ*cula

Speed Racer, In Mexico.

:)
En Argentina tambien.

[number8]

Which one's better? Ricci's "Oh my god, was that a ninja?" question or Goodman's "More like a non-ja!" response?

[Qrazy]

Which one's better? Ricci's "Oh my god, was that a ninja?" question or Goodman's "More like a non-ja!" response?

Right...

[Grouchy]

Which one's better? Ricci's "Oh my god, was that a ninja?" question or Goodman's "More like a non-ja!" response?
Goodman's smackdown of the ninja beats both.

[Henry Gale]

Goodman's smackdown of the ninja beats both.

Yup, this or the Freebird trip-out.

[Thirdmango]

I really need to buy this one, as I have been wanting to watch it again since the theater. I loved this movie.

[EvilShoe]

Going in, I thought it was appreciated on here in an ironic way. I'm surprised it was actually a lot of fun. Can't believe the critics attacked it that heavily.

The races reminded me of Looney Tunes. That's a good thing.

[Skitch]

Which one's better? Ricci's "Oh my god, was that a ninja?" question or Goodman's "More like a non-ja!" response?


Both too awesome to decide.

[monolith94]

I sooo regret not seeing this in theaters. I'm going to sleep now, but I must say that Speed Racer has got me thinking. One of the better films of the year. I should have read this thread earlier. Probably would have convinced me to see it.

"Oh my god, was that a ninja?" is my favourite line reading of the year. Looking back, monolith compared this film to Lichtenstein. That line reminded me so strongly of one of his paintings. I think the film was filled with interesting ideas, pretty much all of them dissected from plot or character. When the film was pure media it was awesome.
I'm glad that my comment was insightful to you. :)

Kind of wish that I had seen this twice, as I did with WallE, but I couldn't find anyone to go see it with, and I just couldn't justify going alone twice.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I just watched this film for the first time.

I thought it was...okay. Certainly better than I expected, and a lot of that was due to the attention given to Speed's family. Those inspirational speeches are cheesy, but they're welcome, not just because the film finally slows down for once. It's also because John Goodman and Susan Sarandon are real actors who can cut through the special effects and convince.

As for the rest of the family, I didn't loathe Spritle and Chim-Chim, but I found their broad attempts at chuckles unfunny and tedious. I suspect that was a large part of the show - which I've never seen - and I also suspect that the show had a lot of floating heads that covered transition wipes, because there's an overabundance of that here too. After the first montage, I was impressed. By the end, I was praying to God for a simpler cutting scheme.

The actual racing scenes didn't really connect for me. The way the Wachowskis spliced the races made the geography a little confusing, but this also probably comes from how quickly and effortlessly the cars bounce around each other, so that a clear lead is never established, and a clear line of action lasts for maybe three seconds. They rectify that somewhat in the middle race, thanks to the introduction of clear goals and obstacles (established with the "modifications" to the car).

Still, the film seems to be, for all intents and purposes, an ode to the Wachowski's own technique, and while I didn't always like the results, it was hard to not be occasionally exhilarated by the energy and joy evident in their filmmaking. These guys clearly had a vision, stuck to it, and made a film that's different from any other big-budget film I've ever seen.

I guess props are in order.

[DavidSeven]

Holy geez. Those bastards have done it again: invigorating commercial filmmaking as a whole while setting a present day benchmark for a genre. Back then, it was sci-fi; this time, it's live-action family. They've elevated the live-action version of the genre to the standards of Pixar. Sorry for being crude, but I think the critics have absolutely missed the fucking boat this time.

Those within the 35% Fresh on the T-meter and most of Match Cut will have bragging rights after inevitable revisionism takes place.

[Watashi]

Did I ever tell how much I love you, David?

[Dukefrukem]

This movie is fucking fantastic. More tomorrow. I'm tired.

[monolith94]

Holy geez. Those bastards have done it again: invigorating commercial filmmaking as a whole while setting a present day benchmark for a genre. Back then, it was sci-fi; this time, it's live-action family. They've elevated the live-action version of the genre to the standards of Pixar. Sorry for being crude, but I think the critics have absolutely missed the fucking boat this time.

Those within the 35% Fresh on the T-meter and most of Match Cut will have bragging rights after inevitable revisionism takes place.
High five!

[Dukefrukem]

I didn't have time to write anything today but one of the more impressive scenes in the film was the fight in the mountains. I love the emphasis on the snow flakes when someone lands a punch or kick.

[megladon8]

Why was it treated like a big reveal that...

Racer X is Rex Racer?


I mean...they pretty much spell it out for you 15 minutes into the movie.

[number8]

Why was it treated like a big reveal that...

Racer X is Rex Racer?


I mean...they pretty much spell it out for you 15 minutes into the movie.

Because in the middle of the movie, they revealed that he is not.

[megladon8]

What?

Rex Racer faked his death because his father pretty much disowned him, and to let Speed become the greatest racer ever.

He had cosmetic surgery to make himself unrecognizable to Speed and the family.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Because in the middle of the movie, they revealed that he is not.

That was funny to me, because I was like, "Stop lying movie, he's clearly the brother."

[megladon8]

I guess I missed something, because I don't remember it being said in the movie that he's not his brother.

I thought it was pretty clear that he was.

[Spinal]

Because in the middle of the movie, they revealed that he is not.

This is correct. You must have missed a scene, meg.

[Pop Trash]

...aaand this movie still sucks.

[[ETM]]

...aaand this movie still sucks.

You're still wrong.

[EyesWideOpen]

...aaand this movie still sucks.

Speed Racer > Ghostbusters

[soitgoes...]

...aaand this movie still sucks.
Before I first saw it, I would've taken this comment as the probable truth. I have seen it three times, and it improves with every viewing. This film very well could be the biggest surprise, to me, of any film I've seen in the past 5 years.

[DavidSeven]

This thread was truly Match-Cut's finest hour.

[[ETM]]

Speed Racer is the only 3D conversion I'd consider watching.

[Watashi]

I guess I missed something, because I don't remember it being said in the movie that he's not his brother.

I thought it was pretty clear that he was.
He reveals that he's not Rex at the race track when Speed gets upset. He's lying though to protect speed, but it also fools the audience.

[Watashi]

I want to watch this movie again and again.

[Dead & Messed Up]

He reveals that he's not Rex at the race track when Speed gets upset. He's lying though to protect speed, but it also fools the audience.

It attempts to fool the audience.

[Spinal]

I don't think it's important whether or not it fools the audience. The point is that it fools Speed.

[number8]

I mean, you can't say that the movie didn't try, since they cast two different actors.

[megladon8]

He reveals that he's not Rex at the race track when Speed gets upset. He's lying though to protect speed, but it also fools the audience.


So...if he reveals that he's not Rex...but he's lying...doesn't that mean he is Rex?

[EyesWideOpen]

At the beginning you assume he's Rex, Speed asks him near the middle of the film and he says no he's not Rex to protect him. Then at the end he reveals he is Rex.

[megladon8]

At the beginning you assume he's Rex, Speed asks him near the middle of the film and he says no he's not Rex to protect him. Then at the end he reveals he is Rex.


Yes...exactly.

At the end of the film it's made apparent that he is Rex.

Which, even when they try to fake fool you in the middle of the movie, wasn't a surprise.


Jeez you guys. You made me think I totally missed something...when I didn't. He is Rex.

[Pop Trash]

Don't worry about it Meg. You are smarter than this movie.

[EyesWideOpen]

Yes...exactly.

At the end of the film it's made apparent that he is Rex.

Which, even when they try to fake fool you in the middle of the movie, wasn't a surprise.


Jeez you guys. You made me think I totally missed something...when I didn't. He is Rex.

I think they just misunderstood what you were saying. They all know that Rex is Racer X. They were just saying that there is a big reveal because he says halfway through that he is not Rex.

[Qrazy]

This movie makes me think of the kind of acid trip I would probably have post-lobotomy.

[soitgoes...]

This movie makes me think of the kind of acid trip I would probably have post-lobotomy.Awesome! I didn't think you liked the film at all.

[Qrazy]

Awesome! I didn't think you liked the film at all.

You like tripping on acid after a portion of your brain has been removed?

[DavidSeven]

Beats not tripping on acid after a portion of your brain has been removed?

[soitgoes...]

You like tripping on acid after a portion of your brain has been removed?Sounds fun!

[Spinal]

It takes a lot of intelligence to craft a film this exciting, funny and visually striking. The tone is spot-on. The world is vivid. The pacing is excellent.

Whether or not it takes a lot of intelligence to enjoy it is irrelevant. It's a mainstream family film. And one of the best such films in recent memory.

[Qrazy]

It takes a lot of intelligence to craft a film this exciting, funny and visually striking. The tone is spot-on. The world is vivid. The pacing is excellent.

Whether or not it takes a lot of intelligence to enjoy it is irrelevant. It's a mainstream family film. And one of the best such films in recent memory.

Nah. Bolt is a fun family film. This is just crap in a bag.

[Qrazy]

Beats not tripping on acid after a portion of your brain has been removed?

Not if you bad trip.

[eternity]

Other than there being too much importance on the Racer X stuff being the most obvious secret in the history of cinema, I can't see anything to dislike. It looks good, the actors are good, and for a kids movie, the story is good. The whole thing is just very well done, at the very least.

[origami_mustache]

A perfect film.

[DavidSeven]

I don't think the reveal of Racer X's identity was meant to be a "gotcha!" moment on the audience. It was probably meant to be more emotionally cathartic than anything else. Aren't you guys at all familiar with the cartoon? They either tease or outright reveal his identity in like every episode.

[Dukefrukem]

I love this movie.

[Spinal]

Aren't you guys at all familiar with the cartoon?

Not really. Seen little bits of it, but it never really held my interest.

[megladon8]

The kid and the monkey are very annoying and not-funny.

[Pop Trash]

The kid and the monkey are very annoying and not-funny.

Wow, I totally forgot about them. Jesus Christ, what a shitty movie.

[transmogrifier]

I've been called crazy many a-time, but I think I have a lifetime exemption from that particular charge given the mass delusion going on in this thread :)

[eternity]

The kid and the monkey are very annoying and not-funny.
They have a candy trip set to Free Bird. If that's not funny, then nothing is funny.

[transmogrifier]

They have a candy trip set to Free Bird. If that's not funny, then nothing is funny.

Ergo, nothing is funny.

Are you sure your calculations are correct?

[megladon8]

I think I've finally formulated a proper opinion on this film.

It's not very good.

First off there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that this needed to be 2 hours and 15 minutes. So, so much could have been trimmed and cut without any effect being lost.

Second, the racing is just flat-out boring when there are no rules. When anything can happen at any time, and they're rolling out deus ex machina after deus ex machina to get Speed out of trouble...I just stop caring. Since Speed is in no apparent danger when he always has a gadget or some ridiculous maneuver to get out of trouble, there's no tension at all.

It's like watching the old Adam West "Batman" show, but Speed Racer plays it straight-faced.


I did like some of the visual flare (though it was obnoxious at times with the constant "wipe with a character's face") and I quite liked how literally cartoonish some of the performances were. Roger Allam's hilariously evil Royalton is great, and Matthew Fox's subdued Racer X was effectively mysterious.

And damn, why does Rain not have an epic career here in America? Great looking, charismatic, talented...that dude should be huge.

[Watashi]

And damn, why does Rain not have an epic career here in America? Great looking, charismatic, talented...that dude should be huge.

He's Asian.

[Morris Schæffer]

I agree with Meg, but perhaps the lack of palpable excitement and danger is inherent to the kind of movie that Speed Racer is, its wackily colorful environs it obviously embraces only conducive to harmless, cartoon fun? Could this movie have been a blistering, pulse-pounding racing extravaganza if, well, if it had been better?

I don't know. I sort of accepted it for what it was. I'm not sure I'd ever expect palm-sweatingly exciting races. But the unique visuals were still pretty cool.

[Dukefrukem]

All this talk about this movie again made my buy it on Amazon

[megladon8]

I agree with Meg, but perhaps the lack of palpable excitement and danger is inherent to the kind of movie that Speed Racer is, its wackily colorful environs it obviously embraces only conducive to harmless, cartoon fun? Could this movie have been a blistering, pulse-pounding racing extravaganza if, well, if it had been better?

I completely disagree.

Being "harmless cartoon fun" does not give a film a free pass to be unexciting and devoid of tension.

The action in The Incredibles is tense and exciting because it feels like there is something on the line for the family, AND that there's the possibility that they could be hurt or defeated.

I never at any point thought there was any particular challenge being directed at Speed, because he got out of everything unscathed, and there was a quick answer to everything.

A particularly mind-numbing instance was when the family seemed to be completely out of luck, having let Togokahn win the race that led to the Grand Prix. But, oh! Luckily one of his supporters had a totally random attack of conscience and brought them his Grand Prix invitation at the last minute.


"It's harmless cartoon fun" isn't an excuse for sloppy writing and a complete lack of tension.

[Morris Schæffer]

I completely disagree.

Being "harmless cartoon fun" does not give a film a free pass to be unexciting and devoid of tension.

The action in The Incredibles is tense and exciting because it feels like there is something on the line for the family, AND that there's the possibility that they could be hurt or defeated.

I never at any point thought there was any particular challenge being directed at Speed, because he got out of everything unscathed, and there was a quick answer to everything.

A particularly mind-numbing instance was when the family seemed to be completely out of luck, having let Togokahn win the race that led to the Grand Prix. But, oh! Luckily one of his supporters had a totally random attack of conscience and brought them his Grand Prix invitation at the last minute.


"It's harmless cartoon fun" isn't an excuse for sloppy writing and a complete lack of tension.

Well, I'm not sure how faithful an adaptation of the cartoon it is, but if certain things were already in place prior to the Wachowski's having a crack at it, then I suppose the universe of Speed Racer is what it is. I don't recall lazy writing however so you may be right Meg. But even then, this isn't a race where people play by the rules, it's sort of off the wall, not even close to being realistic. Surely, if there's going to be any tension, it's always going to be more muted compared to something that is more grounded in reality. Of course, feel free to say I'm unable to sufficiently suspend my disbelief.

The Incredibles is very good, but even there I never really felt like stuff was primed to end in tragedy. When they tried to escape the lair perhaps, but come the end it might as well have been Pixar by way of Michael Bay. Explosive, cool to look at, but hardly thrilling.

[megladon8]

You can definitely have tension while also being unrealistic.

My point is that there was never tension because Speed always knew the right maneuver or had the perfect gadget to get out of any situation.

Two cars trying to box you in? Just flip over them.

A car using a "speerhook" to grab onto his car? Crazy jump that not only breaks his car free, but also shows the cameras that the other driver was using an illegal weapon.

Ninjas? No worry! The whole family knows how to fight!


When the film never even attempts to present something as a threat, the action becomes yawn-inducing.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh what do you mean "racing is just flat-out boring"? Really?


XoPYGuzZ7bg

[Dukefrukem]

I also love the emphasis on the snow flakes in this clip

v9KmzoBMP6U

[Morris Schæffer]

Looks like crazy fun, definitely not boring, but we were talking about tense. :D

[Qrazy]

Wow, I hate the movie so much more now after reliving those two painfully awful scenes.

[Watashi]

Speed Racer is better than your favorite movie.

[megladon8]

Yeh what do you mean "racing is just flat-out boring"? Really?


XoPYGuzZ7bg




That scene with him being boxed in by the two cars then flipping out is exactly what I mean.

I had already seen him flip and jump and spin a million times in the movie before that scene.

There was absolutely no threat there. And when there's no threat, the action is boring, no matter how visually dazzling it is.

[Spinal]

Love the background zebras in that first clip. It's the little visual flourishes like that that makes the film so much fun.

And Christina Ricci in a pink tank top.

[number8]

This thread is boring.

[Spinal]

This thread is boring.

*hits button*

*flips up into the air and spins*

How about now, huh? HUH?

[megladon8]

*hits button*

*flips up into the air and spins*

How about now, huh? HUH?


Spinal - MatchCut's deus ex machina.

[Dukefrukem]

There's a deus ex machina in my pants. This movie is awesome.

Lock thread now!

[Qrazy]

That scene with him being boxed in by the two cars then flipping out is exactly what I mean.

I had already seen him flip and jump and spin a million times in the movie before that scene.

There was absolutely no threat there. And when there's no threat, the action is boring, no matter how visually dazzling it is.

Not to mention the physics of the entire affair are so non-existent that there's zero physical immediacy to any aspect of the race either. The tactile nature of a good chase sequence is what makes racing so engaging in the first place.

Also it isn't visually dazzling because it's hyper-edited to shit with plenty of lame-ass character inserts. The initial image of the cars amidst that huge stadium is quality but it's there for a second and then gone.

[Spinal]

I think the film establishes early on what its rules are in regards to physics and stays consistent within those parameters. That's really all you can ask for.

[megladon8]

I think the film establishes early on what its rules are in regards to physics and stays consistent within those parameters. That's really all you can ask for.


You mean it establishes that there are no rules?

There's consistency in that, I guess. But I don't see how that makes things exciting.

[Spinal]

You mean it establishes that there are no rules?


No. There are limits. They are just beyond our reality. But I disagree with your assertion that anything can happen.

[Dukefrukem]

You mean it establishes that there are no rules?

There's consistency in that, I guess. But I don't see how that makes things exciting.

Rules?

MWkjljtDy-o

[Qrazy]

I think the film establishes early on what its rules are in regards to physics and stays consistent within those parameters. That's really all you can ask for.

Which is that it's cars weigh 3 pounds? Nah I think I'm going to ask for a lot more that that.

[megladon8]

Rules?

MWkjljtDy-o



Uh...what point are you making?

[Spinal]

Which is that it's cars weigh 3 pounds? Nah I think I'm going to ask for a lot more that that.

This is not a film for you. I think we can agree on this.

[Qrazy]

This is not a film for you. I think we can agree on this.

Agreed.

[Dukefrukem]

Uh...what point are you making?

Haha. We're talking about the film makers who base their entire carrers on movies that "break the rules".

"some of them can be bent... others... can be broken"

[Qrazy]

Uh...what point are you making?

His point I guess is that the rules of gravity can be bent. But in my opinion the difference between that clip and the Speed Racer clip is that you actually feel the blows in The Matrix. In Speed Racer sure you see a car fly into a huge monitor, but there's no force of impact really. Contrasted with the wood splintering under the combined force of Neo's body and Morpheus's kick and there's no doubt which sequence expresses a tactile environment.

One of the major reasons the later Matrix films failed is because they forgot the importance of the sense of a physical environment even in a virtual world. Some sequences especially in Revolutions just became completely disconnected.

[megladon8]

Also Speed Racer doesn't take place inside a computer system in which it's expressly said that the rules of gravity can be bent and broken.

And Neo, Morpheus and team get their asses handed to them time and time again. It feels like there's actual risk in what they're doing.

[Spinal]

Also Speed Racer doesn't take place inside a computer system in which it's expressly said that the rules of gravity can be bent and broken.


You're not suggesting that Speed Racer takes places in the real world, are you? You recognize that it is exaggerated fantasy, yes?

[Dukefrukem]

Also Speed Racer doesn't take place inside a computer system in which it's expressly said that the rules of gravity can be bent and broken.


How do you know ;)

Or how do you know they're not racing in a realm that's fragmentized by a fascist govenment?

[Dukefrukem]

You're not suggesting that Speed Racer takes places in the real world, are you? You recognize that it is exaggerated fantasy, yes?

"He's beginning to believe!"

[Thirdmango]

I forgot Patrick was in this movie. No wonder it's so good.

[megladon8]

You're not suggesting that Speed Racer takes places in the real world, are you? You recognize that it is exaggerated fantasy, yes?


Yes, I realize this.

But there are no rules at all.

[Spinal]

But there are no rules at all.

And this is where we disagree.

[Winston*]

No one in this thread has mentioned the bit where one of the evil racers launches a beehive at Speed from a catapult attached to his car. I am here to correct this.

[DavidSeven]

All that is required is that you live by the rules (or lack thereof) that you establish early on, regardless of how disconnected it is from what you know of the real world. Speed Racer does this. Up! is a good example of a film that failed to do this -- establishing in its world that infirmities of old age can make it difficult to walk without a cane and impossible to climb a normal set of stairs and then later completely disregarding those rules.

[megladon8]

I stand by my statement that having no rules and no threat to Speed or the family takes away most (if not all) of the tension that would have been there otherwise, in both the plot and the racing scenes.

[DavidSeven]

It seems odd that you raise this criticism after writing positively about Scott Pilgrim. How would you distinguish the two?

[Spinal]

All that is required is that you live by the rules (or lack thereof) that you establish early on, regardless of how disconnected it is from what you know of the real world. Speed Racer does this. Up! is a good example of a film that failed to do this -- establishing in its world that infirmities of old age can make it difficult to walk without a cane and impossible to climb a normal set of stairs and then later completely disregarding those rules.

This is one of the best posts this site has ever witnessed.

[megladon8]

It seems odd that you raise this criticism after writing positively about Scott Pilgrim. How would you distinguish the two?


I honestly don't know how to answer this, sorry.

Perhaps I just found Scott Pilgrim less annoying on the whole so I'm willing to forgive its lapses in logic.

[Irish]

It seems odd that you raise this criticism after writing positively about Scott Pilgrim. How would you distinguish the two?

This depends on whether you think cars and racing are at the core of the story Speed Racer is try to tell.

Scott Pilgrim had fist fights but it wasn't about them.

Two other examples, where rules aren't established or they are played with for effect: Return of the Jedi and Scream.

[Spinal]

Two other examples, where rules aren't established or they are played with for effect: Return of the Jedi and Scream.

Scream is a deconstruction. It's all about exposing the artifice and playing around with it. That's its raison d'etre.

Which part of Return of the Jedi are you referring to?

[Irish]

Scream is a deconstruction. It's all about exposing the artifice and playing around with it. That's its raison d'etre.

Yes, absolutely. But only the rules from superfan Randy (Jaime Kennedy) are actually broken. Other horror conventions are voiced by other characters, but then follow to the letter. That's part of the entertainment value, although nobody ever seems to notice it.


Which part of Return of the Jedi are you referring to?

The emperor shooting purple lightning out of his fingers, at the very end of the film. The other movies touch on what the force is and how it can be used, but nowhere is it established that Palpy's little electrocution is possible. Yet, nobody ever complains about that.

There's a bunch of reasons why that is, but I think a large part of it has to do with the fact that movies aren't really about the force itself.

[Spinal]

The emperor shooting purple lightning out of his fingers, at the very end of the film. The other movies touch on what the force is and how it can be used, but nowhere is it established that Palpy's little electrocution is possible. Yet, nobody ever complains about that.


Hmmm. The Emperor was a fairly mysterious character up until then. We don't really know a whole lot about him. I just took it as a new discovery ... that this was evidence of someone with sheer mastery. Attack of the Clones would be a better example for me of a film that egregiously breaks the conventions of the series. Particularly that awful Yoda light saber battle.

[transmogrifier]

Criticizing Speed Racer because it isn't believeable is like criticising dog shit on your lawn because its shade of brown doesn't match your curtains.

[megladon8]

It has absolutely nothing to do with believability.

[Ezee E]

Hmmm. The Emperor was a fairly mysterious character up until then. We don't really know a whole lot about him. I just took it as a new discovery ... that this was evidence of someone with sheer mastery. Attack of the Clones would be a better example for me of a film that egregiously breaks the conventions of the series. Particularly that awful Yoda light saber battle.
Yes. A lot of the reason that I think the prequels simply don't work, especially Attack of the Clones.

[Irish]

Hmmm. The Emperor was a fairly mysterious character up until then. We don't really know a whole lot about him. I just took it as a new discovery ... that this was evidence of someone with sheer mastery.

Right, but think about what it represents. It's a physical manifestation of power where previously, the force had been relegated to a kind of super telekinesis, being more about emotional and physical sensitivity. Palpy's lightning is a wholly different kind of effect, one which wasn't even hinted at being possible.

We can tear into Star Wars more. I'm always up for that. But my main point in mentioning it was to say that playing with rules is fine, but you've got to walk a careful line when those rules are tied directly to the core of your story.

So, is racing at the core of Speed Racer or not? I think that's the thing Meg is picking up on in his criticisms. He's saying it is, and that the movie cheats a bit in order to deliver spectacle over substance.

[Spinal]

So, is racing at the core of Speed Racer or not? I think that's the thing Meg is picking up on in his criticisms. He's saying it is, and that the movie cheats a bit in order to deliver spectacle over substance.

I think even the film's fiercest defenders would agree that it is spectacle over substance.

[DavidSeven]

This depends on whether you think cars and racing are at the core of the story Speed Racer is try to tell.

You mean cars and racing in the "this is how it really works in Nascar" sense? No, that's not at the core of this film. Who in their right mind would expect such a thing?

[Irish]

You mean cars and racing in the "this is how it really works in Nascar" sense? No, that's not at the core of this film. Who in their right mind would expect such a thing?

No, I meant more in a Bull Durham or Raging Bull kind of way. Those are sports movies that use the sport in question as a backdrop to tell a larger, or a least different, kind of story.

[EyesWideOpen]

I think even the film's fiercest defenders would agree that it is spectacle over substance.

That's exactly the reason I like it. I have zero interest in cars or racing but the spectacle of the races in Speed Racer are amazing. It was one of the first films I bought on blu-ray and I've already watched it 5+ times.

[soitgoes...]

There is no deep underlying meaning to be found in Speed Racer. The story isn't there to make you go "Hmm." The story is there for one purpose, and one purpose only. Ocular orgasms. It excels at this like no other film.

[origami_mustache]

There is no deep underlying meaning to be found in Speed Racer. The story isn't there to make you go "Hmm." The story is there for one purpose, and one purpose only. Ocular orgasms. It excels at this like no other film.

There is nothing deep, but it still has some splashes of relevant topics in between the spectacle such as cheating in sports, general moral dilemmas, the evils of greedy corporations, and family support. This is really the most brilliant big budget hollywood film I've seen and perhaps the only adaptation of a popular cartoon or comic book series that adds it's own style, but somehow feels true to the original, yet is wildly different and better in many aspects.

[Pop Trash]

There is no deep underlying meaning to be found in Speed Racer. The story isn't there to make you go "Hmm." The story is there for one purpose, and one purpose only. Ocular orgasms. It excels at this like no other film.

See, I don't even agree with that. I mean the collective works of Terrence Malick beats this out. And those even has something to chew on after it's over.

[Pop Trash]

I also have to say that I have yet to meet a person IRL that admits to liking this film.

[Irish]

Ok, I just watched this for the first time. I kinda had to, given how everybody keeps talking about it.

Everything that Meg posted in the last day or so is spot on. Some of his comments are really astute, especially that bit about this being a kind of Adam West Batman, but played straight (to SR's detriment, because Batman had wit and soul. Speed Racer has none).

This isn't a movie. It's a two hour long visual effects demo reel. The f/x artists, costumers designers, and production designers should all be proud of it, every one else involved should be deeply ashamed. Especially the Wachowski Bros, who are once again proving that the first Matrix film was a fluke. They know fuck all about narrative filmmaking. I've seen 4 minute MTV videos that had more depth and greater cohesion than Speed Racer. I've seen 30 second TV ads that told better stories, and with more style.

It's fine if you like it, or even love it. But for fuck's sake don't try and pass it off as some kind of cinematic wunderkind and try to get by with "it's a family film!", as if that's some kind of cogent argument.

There's only a few ways I could see liking this movie:

1) You enjoy the movies of Chris Columbus, Roland Emmerich and Michael Bay much more than you'd like to admit, especially on Match Cut.
2) You're a heavy, heavy drug user and saw this movie at an IMAX theater while visiting the land of nod.
3) You're Kurosawa Fan and you saw this with your 6 year old son (seriously, that was a helluva sweet story you posted about your movie going experience).

Again, like it or love it is fine. But telling me it's some kind of Godardian gift to cinema just rankles. Ultimately it's just extremely forgettable pop trash (with apologies to the poster Pop_Trash).

I'm being more severe with it than I would be otherwise, because of the bizarre and misplaced love exhibited in this thread.

Not only is the movie deeply insulting to its cast and characters, it treats its audience like they're mouthbreathing riddalin addicts. You guys are smarter than that, and I feel like this movie insulted the hell out of you and you smiled and said "gee, shucks, thanks!" and then wanted more.

Seriously, what the fuck?

[eternity]

Ok, I just watched this for the first time. I kinda had to, given how everybody keeps talking about it.

Everything that Meg posted in the last day or so is spot on. Some of his comments are really astute, especially that bit about this being a kind of Adam West Batman, but played straight (to SR's detriment, because Batman had wit and soul. Speed Racer has none).

This isn't a movie. It's a two hour long visual effects demo reel. The f/x artists, costumers designers, and production designers should all be proud of it, every one else involved should be deeply ashamed. Especially the Wachowski Bros, who are once again proving that the first Matrix film was a fluke. They know fuck all about narrative filmmaking. I've seen 4 minute MTV videos that had more depth and greater cohesion than Speed Racer. I've seen 30 second TV ads that told better stories, and with more style.

It's fine if you like it, or even love it. But for fuck's sake don't try and pass it off as some kind of cinematic wunderkind and try to get by with "it's a family film!", as if that's some kind of cogent argument.

There's only a few ways I could see liking this movie:

1) You enjoy the movies of Chris Columbus, Roland Emmerich and Michael Bay much more than you'd like to admit, especially on Match Cut.
2) You're a heavy, heavy drug user and saw this movie at an IMAX theater while visiting the land of nod.
3) You're Kurosawa Fan and you saw this with your 6 year old son (seriously, that was a helluva sweet story you posted about your movie going experience).

Again, like it or love it is fine. But telling me it's some kind of Godardian gift to cinema just rankles. Ultimately it's just extremely forgettable pop trash (with apologies to the poster Pop_Trash).

I'm being more severe with it than I would be otherwise, because of the bizarre and misplaced love exhibited in this thread.

Not only is the movie deeply insulting to its cast and characters, it treats its audience like they're mouthbreathing riddalin addicts. You guys are smarter than that, and I feel like this movie insulted the hell out of you and you smiled and said "gee, shucks, thanks!" and then wanted more.

Seriously, what the fuck?
No.

[Spinal]

Geez, it's just a fun movie, all right. I don't think anyone's tried to make it out as anything more than that.

[soitgoes...]

Speed Racer>400 Blows

[Irish]

Geez, it's just a fun movie, all right. I don't think anyone's tried to make it out as anything more than that.

I know, I know. I had to rant. I read through the entire thread with growing bewilderment.

I'm usually with you on "it's just a movie" when we're talking about cheapo, fluffy entertainment. There's a lot of "pop trash" that I genuinely enjoy. I'm along for the ride when Michael Bay wants to blow something up this week, or Bruce Willis is smirking at his opponent down the barrel of a .45.

But the unabashed enthusiasm here seems to me to go beyond "just a movie," especially when you're collectively comparing it to the works of Pixar and European art films.

[Spinal]

I think it's more absurd to compare Pixar to European art films than it is to compare Speed Racer to Pixar.

[Boner M]

Wait, when was this film compared to European art films in this thread?

[Spinal]

Wait, when was this film compared to European art films in this thread?

Besides three posts ago?

[Irish]

Wait, when was this film compared to European art films in this thread?


Frankly, I think that visually un chien andalou pales in comparison to Speed Racer visually, which is not "white noise" visually. The vision has a purpose: it is an appropriation of Japanese themes and styles. For example, there's an overhead shot of a car racing over a track, with the track a deep, rich, red with black japanese (chinese?) characters written on the track. I found that beautiful. Similarly beautiful was the segment near the beginning where Speed imagines himself racing, which is given anime-style special effects. Watashi's allusion to pop-art was correct, but I'd say this is closer to Lichtenstein than Warhol.

http://match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=64642&postcount=233

This is in the context of someone posted an outside essay/review of SR, and then Monolith and Raiders talking about the points it raised.

[Irish]

Every single second of this movie was gold.

Consider me blown away from what can only be called the 100 million dollar arthouse film. That really was something completely ballsy that proved that the Wachowski's got something. The Matrix sequels were...misguided, sure, but this was a return to form that may even be more revolutionary, at least in my mind, than the film that really put them on the map.

It might be the most visually audacious -- and spectacular -- movie I've seen since Hero five years ago; the aforementioned shot of the Mach 5 sliding across a red-and-black logo on the Grand Prix track is one of many that took my breath away.

it's not a movie, but an experience. a term i think best described arthouse than marketable affair. agree with whoever says speed racer is the most expensive art film ever made.

And Cozzalio's right, I think, to compare it to the cinema of De Palma, for the reasons he cites about the blending of "technique and social terror to create often grandiose, bitterly funny and enthralling visions typically pockmarked with the kind of narrative flaws that are diminished, and sometimes redeemed, by the sheer audacity of his style." I immediately thought of the rotating shots in Blow Out and Obsession and how frequently (too frequently, I think) the Wachowskis copped that move (copped by Hitch, initially).

You guys weren't kidding. That was the most fun I've had at the theatre in too long. [...] I was going to give it ***1/2 out of ****, but everything I say reminds me that it's pretty much my favourite film so far this year, so: **** / ****

still makes me happy just thinking about this movie.

while i watched it, i couldn't avoid the thought that every damn advertising art director would want to copy the film's many visual tricks and style, to my surprise, i haven't heard anything until now... did the film flopped?

I've ben meaning on writing something about Speed Racer's critical reaction, too. Mostly, I'm beginning to really believe that story is the most overrated device in a film.

I sooo regret not seeing this in theaters. I'm going to sleep now, but I must say that Speed Racer has got me thinking. One of the better films of the year. I should have read this thread earlier.

Oh wow. Awesome. It really is more than fast cars and bright colors.

Holy geez. Those bastards have done it again: invigorating commercial filmmaking as a whole while setting a present day benchmark for a genre. Back then, it was sci-fi; this time, it's live-action family. They've elevated the live-action version of the genre to the standards of Pixar.

So before everyone jumps on the Irish dogpile and calls me nuts, these posts in particular really say that you all believe SR is more than "just a movie."

At least, that's what I took from them. Not just entertainment and more than just a family film, but something that if not out-and-out art for arts sake than something highly successful as commercial art.

To which I can only respond:


Match Cut, what the hell is wrong with you?

[Boner M]

http://match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=64642&postcount=233

This is in the context of someone posted an outside essay/review of SR, and then Monolith and Raiders talking about the points it raised.
Right, Raiders regarded SR's visuals as accidentally resembling Bunuel out of ineptitude while monolith dismissed the comparison an (aptly) brought up Lichtenstein instead.

[Irish]

Right, Raiders regarded SR's visuals as accidentally resembling Bunuel out of ineptitude while monolith dismissed the comparison an (aptly) brought up Lichtenstein instead.

He's not dismissing the comparison (which Raiders didn't actually make), but making the argument that Speed Racer's visuals are better than Bunel's. (And comparing Speed Racer to Lichtenstein is just absurd ... or maybe not, considering Lich's "talent.")

[Watashi]

I really wouldn't be afraid to put Speed Racer in my Top 10.

I think it's so fucking brilliant.

[B-side]

Jesus. Speed Racer is passable entertainment. Nothing more. There's nothing audacious or groundbreaking about it.


Holy geez. Those bastards have done it again: invigorating commercial filmmaking as a whole while setting a present day benchmark for a genre. Back then, it was sci-fi; this time, it's live-action family. They've elevated the live-action version of the genre to the standards of Pixar.

Wow. The Wachowskis haven't set a benchmark for anything, let alone an entire genre of film.

[soitgoes...]

Jesus. Speed Racer is passable entertainment. Nothing more. There's nothing audacious or groundbreaking about it.

Wow. The Wachowskis haven't set a benchmark for anything, let alone an entire genre of film.


Tony Scott > Jean Renoir

I have spoken.:rolleyes:

[[ETM]]

The fact that Irish hates SR is oddly comforting. All is right with the world.

[B-side]

:rolleyes:

I stand by it.

[number8]

Well, of course Speed Racer is more than just a movie. It is great movie. By definition, that is superior to just a movie.

[Sven]

...because Batman had wit and soul. Speed Racer has none).

Prove this.


This isn't a movie. It's a two hour long visual effects demo reel.

This is how I felt about Tron 2, so I am sympathetic to your position. But let's be straight about something: this is a movie.


The f/x artists, costumers designers, and production designers should all be proud of it, every one else involved should be deeply ashamed.

"Deeply" ashamed? It sounds like you're bestowing this work with more gravity than anyone else.


It's fine if you like it, or even love it. But for fuck's sake don't try and pass it off as some kind of cinematic wunderkind and try to get by with "it's a family film!", as if that's some kind of cogent argument.

Thanks for granting us permission. Also, thanks for setting clear parameters on what makes great cinema. Also, the film itself could not be a "wunderkind" because that is a label ascribed to people, not objects. Also, it doesn't make a lot of sense anyway because I don't think anyone is claiming the film is at all a "wunderkind", but rather a product of experienced minds.


1) You enjoy the movies of Chris Columbus, Roland Emmerich and Michael Bay much more than you'd like to admit, especially on Match Cut.

No. Also, you are being condescending.


2) You're a heavy, heavy drug user and saw this movie at an IMAX theater while visiting the land of nod.

Do you know that the "land of nod" means sleep? Also, this doesn't negate the potentially revelatory experience of an influenced screening.


But telling me it's some kind of Godardian gift to cinema just rankles. Ultimately it's just extremely forgettable pop trash (with apologies to the poster Pop_Trash).

"Forgettable" is poor word choice. You haven't given yourself enough time to forget it, so you have no idea. And many posters here have obviously not forgotten it. You should reserve your adjective use to accurate ones.


Not only is the movie deeply insulting to its cast and characters, it treats its audience like they're mouthbreathing riddalin addicts. You guys are smarter than that, and I feel like this movie insulted the hell out of you and you smiled and said "gee, shucks, thanks!" and then wanted more.

One of the worst things is when people get offended for other people. If you were offended, great. But why are you insisting that others be? Ridiculous.

Also, it is more indicative of ADD that you haven't retained or didn't bother to research the correct spelling of Ritalin.


Seriously, what the fuck?

Seriously.

[number8]

I just re-read my 3 year old review (http://www.justpressplay.net/reviews/623-speed-racer.html), and was pleased to discover that I still agree with every word.

[origami_mustache]

If the original cartoon had a lot of substance and such I could understand holding this film's story line to high standards, but the series had little to none and was mostly just enjoyable to watch for the odd combination of cornball story lines juxtaposed with cartoon cars crashing and cartoon people dying which I found shocking and provocative when I was a kid.

[DavidSeven]

Wow. The Wachowskis haven't set a benchmark for anything, let alone an entire genre of film.

They have set the benchmark for commercial live action family films. I'm pretty sure this is a sub-genre that sees more than its share of crap, so I don't think it's such an outlandish claim.

Also, Tony Scott has never made anything remotely as good as The Matrix, and I'm not even a huge nut for that film.

[Irish]

Seriously.

I find it interesting that the best argument you can make is to red-pen my post like a persnickety grade school teacher.

Do actually have anything to say in defense of the film?

[Irish]

If the original cartoon had a lot of substance and such I could understand holding this film's story line to high standards, but the series had little to none and was mostly just enjoyable to watch for the odd combination of cornball story lines juxtaposed with cartoon cars crashing and cartoon people dying which I found shocking and provocative when I was a kid.

This is more than a fair point, but the trouble lies in taking a 20 minute cartoon and extending that kind of play for two hours.

What works in 20 minute doses fails badly when you try and scale it up to 129 minutes.

[Sven]

I find it interesting that the best argument you can make is to red-pen my post like a persnickety grade school teacher.

How do you know that's the best argument I can make?


Do actually have anything to say in defense of the film?

Sure. I'll dish those out when you have actual criticisms of the film ("you have to like Michael Bay and get high"... wtf?). I was mostly addressing your misplaced outrage.

[megladon8]

I thought this movie was much too long, and that was one of its greatest problems.

[Irish]

How do you know that's the best argument I can make?

It stands to reason that if you had an argument to make, you'd have made it. Who sits on compelling statement in order to correct middle of the night misspellings of Ritalin?


Sure. I'll dish those out when you have actual criticisms of the film ("you have to like Michael Bay and get high"... wtf?). I was mostly addressing your misplaced outrage.

Uh, I made them? Witless, soulless, bad story, thin characters, insulting, etc. I didn't back any of them with concrete examples (although that's easy enough).

Point taken on the outrage. I probably sound much angrier in text than I am in real life.

[[ETM]]

Uh, I made them? Witless, soulless, bad story, thin characters, insulting, etc. I didn't back any of them with concrete examples (although that's easy enough).

Please do. As it is, the only possible extent of the discussion is "No, no, no, no, no etc."

[megladon8]

Point taken on the outrage. I probably sound much angrier in text than I am in real life.


I frequently have problems with this.

I assume people know the tone in which I'm speaking, and sometimes inadvertently come across as a huge asshole.

[Sven]

It stands to reason that if you had an argument to make, you'd have made it. Who sits on compelling statement in order to correct middle of the night misspellings of Ritalin?

"Who sits on compelling statement"? I can't figure that one out.

If you're going to get on a high horse, it is advisable to use and spell words correctly. That's the argument I'm making. Cogently, I think.


Uh, I made them? Witless, soulless, bad story, thin characters, insulting, etc. I didn't back any of them with concrete examples (although that's easy enough).

I can't address the nebulous "witless"
"Soulless" means, what, that you wanted more drama, or...?
What makes a story good?
"Thin characters" is not a compelling criticism in itself. Show me how the characters required more depth.
And I addressed "insulting." Sorry you were insulted.

There have been enough refutations of these descriptors in this thread that repeating them at length would be unnecessary. I'm not even the right guy for it, being only a moderate fan of the movie. I just have a low threshold for tolerating elitist tones.

[Spinal]

I don't understand why it's so perplexing for some that many people enjoy this movie. The Wachowskis made Bound and The Matrix, two movies for which no one would question my admiration. No one would bat an eye if I praised performances by John Goodman, Christina Ricci, Susan Sarandon or Emile Hirsch in other movies. The film has a good pedigree.

[Morris Schæffer]

I just briefly wanna return to what you said about this movie having set out the rules and sticking with them. That may be true, but when you go all the way back to the scripting stage, perhaps the writing could have been such that those rules wouldn't have been all that outrageous to begin with. Then Meg and I would have perhaps seen races with a little genuine thrill to them. Although I've enjoyed this movie. :)

[Spinal]

That may be true, but when you go all the way back to the scripting stage, perhaps the writing could have been such that those rules wouldn't have been all that outrageous to begin with. Then Meg and I would have perhaps seen races with a little genuine thrill to them.

So you wanted the auto racing to be more realistic? Have you ever watched auto racing? It's not that thrilling.

[Qrazy]

I don't understand why it's so perplexing for some that many people enjoy this movie. The Wachowskis made Bound and The Matrix, two movies for which no one would question my admiration. No one would bat an eye if I praised performances by John Goodman, Christina Ricci, Susan Sarandon or Emile Hirsch in other movies. The film has a good pedigree.

This argument doesn't really make any sense. Plenty of good/competent directors make a number of good/competent films and then make a bad one. Schlesinger's Midnight Cowboy, Far from the Madding Crowd and Day of the Locust are great films in my opinion but that doesn't excuse The Next Best Thing. Similarly there are plenty of great actors that have given mediocre or bad performances in other films.

[Qrazy]

So you wanted the auto racing to be more realistic? Have you ever watched auto racing? It's not that thrilling.

I think it would have been awesome if it was the way it is but with a little more physicality.

[DavidSeven]

But the adoration would certainly be more perplexing if this was Barry Sonnenfeld's Speed Racer with Brad Garrett as the dad and Zac Efron as Speed. The Wachowskis earned their stripes with The Matrix and the cast is uniformly excellent. Sure, it could have sucked, but it didn't, and that shouldn't surprise anybody.

[Spinal]

Sure, it could have sucked, but it didn't, and that shouldn't surprise anybody.

Or, at the least, it shouldn't surprise anyone that the film has its supporters. I mean, Up is ass, but I'm not shocked that lots of people love it.

I recommended Speed Racer to someone in real life one time and you would have thought I told them I love Weekend at Bernie's or something. They were incredulous.

[Watashi]

I mean, Up is ass, but I'm not shocked that lots of people love it.

Well, I am an ass man, so I'll take this as a compliment that you loved it.

[Spinal]

Well, I am an ass man, so I'll take this as a compliment that you loved it.

:lol:

[MadMan]

I missed out on seeing Speed Racer on the big screen, and I keep hearing that I should at least watch it on Blu Ray. But I'm broke, and my friend who has Blu Ray refuses to give it a chance. So I guess I'll keep wondering what all of the fuss is about.

[Dukefrukem]

I'd like to point out that Qrazy and Meg hated this movie before they even saw it. Exhibit A & B. Their hatred was so strong and non-accepting of potential I conclude their opinions are biased and do not count. :P *runs back to studying*



It looks absolutely awful. You've got to be kidding me. The drama, the characters, the dialogue, all transparently terrible. Even the sfx look stupid, the only thing I like even mildly about any of this is the city design. The siblings get some points for creativity there.



That looks so terrible, I can't believe it's actually being released.

I'm with KF - what the hell is happening to you guys?

[Qrazy]

But the adoration would certainly be more perplexing if this was Barry Sonnenfeld's Speed Racer with Brad Garrett as the dad and Zac Efron as Speed. The Wachowskis earned their stripes with The Matrix and the cast is uniformly excellent. Sure, it could have sucked, but it didn't, and that shouldn't surprise anybody.

And then lost them with the sequels.

[DavidSeven]

And then lost them with the sequels.

I won't dispute this.

[Pop Trash]

Weekend at Bernie's rules.

[Thirdmango]

;358823']The fact that Irish hates SR is oddly comforting. All is right with the world.

This.

Irish it's hard for me to understand your critisisms of the soul of the movie when every tv discussion you've had in the past month has been based on ratings and placement of characters and stories around commercial times. You seem very structured in your opinions and not really someone who bases things on soul. Like a scientific viewer of movies versus and artistic viewer of movies.

[Russ]

I will admit that I wasn't very enthusiastic the first time I saw it in the theater. But, like fine wine and The Big Lebowski, it's a grower, and gets better and better with every exposure. You want tension? Go see another movie. You want maximum sensory pleasure? Step right up.

I think the style is so overhyped (and rightfully so) that the substance is undervalued -- and remember, the substance is anchored by a rock solid foundation that is forged on the chemistry/performances of Sarandon and Goodman, both of whom deliver touching and heartfelt moments that rise above the genre of live action family film.

I've always felt this is one of those films that's way ahead of its time. And due to all the vitriol of the minority of haters present in this thread, I feel somewhat justified in that opinion.

Speed Racer rocks. IMHO, of course. :)

[Henry Gale]

Wow, five pages in five days about a movie that came out three years ago. All of this talk is really making me want to watch it again, but it may help that I also look at it as one of my personal best examples of great Summer entertainment, especially from the last few years at the theatre.

[Qrazy]

I will admit that I wasn't very enthusiastic the first time I saw it in the theater. But, like fine wine and The Big Lebowski, it's a grower, and gets better and better with every exposure. You want tension? Go see another movie. You want maximum sensory pleasure? Step right up.

I think the style is so overhyped (and rightfully so) that the substance is undervalued -- and remember, the substance is anchored by a rock solid foundation that is forged on the chemistry/performances of Sarandon and Goodman, both of whom deliver touching and heartfelt moments that rise above the genre of live action family film.

I've always felt this is one of those films that's way ahead of its time. And due to all the vitriol of the minority of haters present in this thread, I feel somewhat justified in that opinion.

Speed Racer rocks. IMHO, of course. :)

And due to the fact that I'm right and you're wrong I feel justified in my opinion.

[B-side]

I don't think I was being vitriolic, and I'm certainly not a hater. It's decent entertainment. I just don't comprehend the hyperbolic praise thrown on it that Irish quoted.

[soitgoes...]

I don't think I was being vitriolic, and I'm certainly not a hater. It's decent entertainment. I just don't comprehend the hyperbolic praise thrown on it that Irish quoted.I didn't think you were either of those things. I was just trying to show that people have differing tastes. You liking Tony Scott more than Jean Renoir is just as baffling to me as people comparing Speed Racer to [insert acclaimed art film] is to you or anyone else. Follow these words in life Brightside:

"Now, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum,
What might be right for you, may not be right for some.
A man is born, he's a man of means.
Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans.

But they got, Diff'rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world."

[B-side]

I wish you'd have a Diff'rent Stroke and develop better opinions.

too far?

[Qrazy]

I didn't think you were either of those things. I was just trying to show that people have differing tastes. You liking Tony Scott more than Jean Renoir is just as baffling to me as people comparing Speed Racer to [insert acclaimed art film] is to you or anyone else. Follow these words in life Brightside:


Alternatively Speed Racer and Tony Scott are equally terrible.

[Derek]

Alternatively Speed Racer and Tony Scott are equally terrible.

Thank. You.

[BuffaloWilder]

I really can't understand how anyone can even argue with Irish on this, to some extent - I mean, yes. Everything apart from the visual excess of the movie (which is kind of the underlying point) is pretty sloppily done, although they do manage a few rousing moments near the end of the film. It feels hollow, because it comes from a source material that is inherently hollow and empty, and the two directors have made no effort to expand or even add any kind of emotional weight to anything that was even scantly present, to begin with.

All of the cast do what they can and have fun with it, but - it's just hollow, and weightless. There's the faintest glimmer of emotional resonance near the end as Speed wins the race and we're treated to that great little montage, but that's really about it. You guys can say its simplicity is its charm - but, simplicity can be done well, and especially with a concept like this (wacky road racing, in which there are many really quite good exploitation films out there on the subject from the seventies onward). Here, it just never meshes. It's never cohesive, or self-evident in its construction. The races aren't visceral or involving, or blood-pumping, which at their base is kind of a prerequisite. It's a gloppy mish-mash of colors and half-assed everything else.

To be fair, the visual excess was interesting and well-done. If there is ever a Sonic the Hedgehog film to be done in the style of the Genesis games, they need to look here for visual inspiration. Just - you know, with a better director and everything else behind it.

[Irish]

Irish it's hard for me to understand your critisisms of the soul of the movie when every tv discussion you've had in the past month has been based on ratings and placement of characters and stories around commercial times. You seem very structured in your opinions and not really someone who bases things on soul. Like a scientific viewer of movies versus and artistic viewer of movies.

You're right, I usually don't. But this movie is remarkable in its lack of humanity. Everything in it is polished to a high sheen, even the people. They come off as automatons, machinma.

I'd say the only two actors who approach human (and who also seem to know exactly where they are and what kind of movie they're in) are Roger Allam and Matthew Fox.


I think the style is so overhyped (and rightfully so) that the substance is undervalued -- and remember, the substance is anchored by a rock solid foundation that is forged on the chemistry/performances of Sarandon and Goodman, both of whom deliver touching and heartfelt moments that rise above the genre of live action family film.

There is little substance. Where it exists (around the Racer X character), it is badly handled.

Sarandon and Goodman don't have any particular chemistry together. When they're in the same room together, they barely acknowledge each other's presence. When they aren't, they're delivering tearjerker supporting roles that are precisely timed and fixed.

Speaking of which, I don't understand the high praise for them in this movie. They're pros who have been around a long time and here they do exactly what I'd expect them to do: deliver a professional level performance.

But there isn't anything in those performances that's particularly remarkable, outside of, well, just them being them. (Seriously, have you ever seen these two give a bad performance in the last twenty years?)

The movie isn't anchored on anything, much less anything human. That's its big problem.

[TGM]

What little I've seen of this film I didn't like, though reading through this thread makes me really want to actually give this movie a proper viewing.

[monolith94]

I'm glad you at least give Roger Allam some credit at least. His monologue in this movie was so, so brilliantly performed.

[max314]

A lot has been made of the performances in the film being wooden.

I agree — they are wooden. But I think that's kind of the point.

What's fascinating is that much of the dialogue in Speed Racer is essentially stripped of subtext. With the exception of Royalton and Racer X, characters generally say exactly what they mean.

There's an earnestness to the style, and one that clearly harkens back to the original TV show. So I see this as a deliberate choice, especially since we've seen in films like Bound and The Matrix just how sophisticated their dialogue can be.

[Watashi]

This is your yearly reminder that Speed Racer is still a masterpiece.

Can't believe it's been almost 10 years since this film.

[number8]

I just watched it again a couple of weeks ago, actually. Wanted to see if it's still as phenomenal a movie as I remember it to be.

It is.

[Skitch]

Yearly watch. See some new amazing thing every time.

[transmogrifier]

Counterpoint: I haven't seen this since it first came out, and that's not gonna change.

[Spinal]

I wonder where that monkey is today.

[origami_mustache]

still makes me happy just thinking about this movie.

i need to watch this again :)

[Watashi]

10 years ago this day.

It's still the fucking best.

[Henry Gale]

10 years ago this day.

It's still the fucking best.

Damn, it really is, isn't it...

Been far too long since a re-watch.

[Skitch]

I started it with the kids the other day. They were mesmerized. Lucky for them, now they get to stay.

[[ETM]]

Hmm, it's been a while indeed... Perhaps 4K this time? Hmmm...

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Morris Schæffer]

A 4K edition would be pretty rad, also seemed like it could have been an insane ride in great 3D.

[Neclord]

There's no lossless sound mix on the Blu-ray which is a darn shame.

[Henry Gale]

Damn, it really is, isn't it...

Been far too long since a re-watch.

Finally got around to it the other day and yeah.. it's still the most excellent and sincerely wild thing (until maybe WB's own Fury Road came along seven years late).

As more time goes by, the more I can't believe something this uniquely audacious exists. What a profound delight.

And a little Wachowski bonus for these times:

1262104754496339968

[Dukefrukem]

What is the context for that tweet?

[Wryan]

The consensus seems to be that Emusk is talking about how corona is overblown and we should reopen the economy yesterday. Ivanka is cosigning.