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thefourthwall
09-17-2009, 03:17 PM
I was shocked when I was unable to find a thread for the show in the TV forum (there's a very little discussion in the Kitchen Sink forum, following Mara's amazing Buffy as Monomythic Hero essay (http://match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=757&highlight=buffy)). But, I know we've got some fans out there.
So, I solicit help. I'm intending to show my class an episode tomorrow, and I haven't decided which one. I need an episode that can stand alone. For now they're just reading about how we can read television as a text to teach us about our culture's ideology. Next week they'll be reading a [student] essay that places Buffy with the third wave of feminism.
Thoughts? Or if that's a tall order maybe just what's a good stand alone episode that won't need tons of context explained?
ledfloyd
09-17-2009, 04:23 PM
i think 'hush' is my favorite episode.
When my old roommate lost a bet with me and had to watch one episode, I made her watch "Something Blue" because I thought it was funny and scary and awesome. "Hush" is very cool as well.
But for a class-- hard to say. "Once More with Feeling" is extraordinary, of course, and Whedon tried to make it stand alone, but the students might be offput by the singing and dancing.
The best episode of the entire series is "The Body," but I'm not sure how the emotional impact would rate with someone who had never seen the show before.
Maybe you should say how you are defining "third wave" feminism.
This thread reminds me that I still have to see seasons 6 & 7.
Hush is great. Living Conditions from season 4 is also a pretty good standalone episode.
And Helpless from season 3 is great too, but I don't think that was a standalone episode.
One of the most interesting episodes, in my opinion, dealing with feminism within the realm of the show is "I was Made to Love You," which is the one where we first meet Warren and April, his sexbot. It's also the one where Buffy tries to act more feminine in order to snag a man (Ben.)
There's also some meta-arc stuff that may not interest a first-time watcher (Spike placing an order for the Buffybot, and Joyce's death) but it also has poor, pathetic April's dying hope that Warren will return for her:
April: What if he comes back and he can't find me in the dark?
Buffy: I'm here. I'll make sure that he finds you.
April: Maybe this is a girlfriend test. If I wait here patiently this time, he'll come back.
I wish you could show "The Gift." But it's way steeped in the mythology.
"She's a hero. She's not like us."
Lucky
09-17-2009, 09:58 PM
I wish you could show "The Gift." But it's way steeped in the mythology.
"She's a hero. She's not like us."
That's my favorite episode. I agree it wouldn't be a good one to show, though.
Hmm...
"Hush" was my first thought, too.
Scanning through the episode listing I'm trying to pick an episode that can stand alone...
I'll suggest "Anne" (the one where Buffy runs off to live alone) and "The I in Team" (where Buffy first joins the Initiative and Maggie sets her up).
More thoughts:
Doppelgängland: Evil Willow! So much fun.
Fool for Love: Excellent, but more about Spike than Buffy. We see her fearing her own mortality.
Restless: Deeply, deeply entrenched in the mythology, but this isn't an episode that TRIES to make sense.
Family: Some really dark views of female sexuality seen through Tara and her family. Also, a very young Amy Adams.
Helpless: Buffy loses her powers and runs around screaming like a little girl.
"Bad Eggs"
Just kidding.
Where the Wild Things Are.
Beer Bad.
ledfloyd
09-18-2009, 03:20 PM
god, this thread makes me want to watch through buffy all over again.
I thought Angel was an interesting failure. It certainly was never as good as Buffy.
Some specific aspects, like the characters of Fred and Lorne, were really well done. And certain specific episodes were great. But, overall, it was a bit of a head-scratcher.
And Spike should never have come back. He should have stayed dead. He died a hero in Buffy and was resurrected as a buffoon. Boooooooo.
EDIT: It must also be mentioned that the show improved some characters-- especially Wesley, who became one of my favorite Buffyverse characters. Cordy was good in Buffy but better in Angel.
ledfloyd
09-18-2009, 03:29 PM
i've never watched angel.
thefourthwall
09-19-2009, 03:45 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, all! I ended up going with "Hush" which I really didn't want to because it seems so standard, but I didn't give myself enough time to review episodes. I couldn't just watch part of it, I had to watch it all for every one I considered--not time effective. I think it worked fine.
I must say that I adore this show so much. I used to always have a disc handy for watching right before bed or while I was getting ready in the morning. Then my friend and I started rewatching it together with the intent to do it chronologically, so that we start alternating Buffy and Angel starting with Season 4.
But now I only ever want to watch the next episode that we're on, yet I feel like I'm cheating on her if I watch them by myself. And with the wedding, me moving, and dissertation work--not to mention all her stuff--we haven't been able to watch in a while, and I miss it.
thefourthwall
09-19-2009, 03:55 PM
Yeah, I didn't mind Angel because of what amazing things it did with Wesley, Cordy, and even Angel himself, who I always thought was a bit of a pansy in Buffy. Certainly not as good but still pretty darn good.
And I didn't mind Spike coming back--though I'm not entirely objective where his character is concerned. I think it continued the Angel/Spike foil amazingly for being sans Buffy. The episode "Destiny" (I think...the one where they race for a cup...of Mountain Dew?) really starts to get at the issues that I've long argued. Spike is better than Angel, both as a man and as a vampire.
Thirdmango
09-19-2009, 05:08 PM
Almost done with the third season. I'm still trying to understand why it's so good cause I haven't really figured it out yet.
Almost done with the third season. I'm still trying to understand why it's so good cause I haven't really figured it out yet.
I think the third season is where it got really good. If you're not enjoying it, it may not be your cup of tea. (Although, really, if I were you I'd stick it out until the fifth to see if you change your mind. The fifth season is EPIC.)
Kurosawa Fan
11-17-2009, 07:57 PM
Figured I should move stuff here. Just finished ep. 5 (Never Kill a Boy...). I liked the tone of this episode better than any in season one thus far. I gotta say though, every person in that school would be spreading rumors that Buffy was having an illicit affair with the librarian. I hope that becomes a small issue in an upcoming episode, with the principal having a talk with Buffy. That would be fun. Nothing that lasts more than two minutes, just a casual mention would be cool.
I'm rewatching for fun, too. "Never Kill a Boy on the First Date" was better than I remembered. It's the first time a very serious theme is lightly addressed, which is that no matter how perky and cute she is, and no matter how evil the creatures are that she kills, Buffy is a professional killer, and that does something to you. You can't enjoy it too much, or it hurts your soul.
The rest of the season, graded, per me: (no spoilers, just hints)
The Pack: B-. Somewhat silly premise, but a couple cool scenes and one of my all-time favorite BtVS deaths.
Angel: A-. The first really quality episode in the series, in my opinion.
I Robot, You Jane: C-. Ridiculous. However, great as a nostalgia trip to the very early days of the "net" with "e-letters" and "jacking in."
The Puppet Show: B-. Oddly enough, I remember being really frightened by this episode the first time I watched it. After watching the entire series, that seems a little silly. (Be sure to watch the scene after the credits, KF, if it's on the Hulu version.)
Nightmares: B-. Suffers in comparison to season 4's "Restless."
Out of Mind, Out of Sight: C. Although it's been quite awhile.
Prophecy Girl: A. We finally dig in to the meat of the matter.
Oh, and regarding Buffy and my man Giles: (no real spoilers, but just in case you're sensitive, I'll wrap it)
They stay really far away from any indication that there's inappropriateness there. There are actually more hints with Willow than Giles (take a careful look inside her season 1 locker, if it's open) and she mentioned years later that she used to have a crush on him.
As far as I can remember, only one character ever wonders aloud if there was "something" between Buffy and Giles. It's more common for characters to remark how wonderfully dedicated he appears to be to his students, which is played for laughs, as dramatic irony.
Kurosawa Fan
11-17-2009, 08:25 PM
Uh oh. Are there normally scenes after the credits? Please say no, because I stop the show as soon as the credits roll.
Is there anything in those lowly rated episodes that I can't miss? I'm halfway through The Pack, but if I can just watch Angel, The Puppet Show, Nightmares, and Prophecy Girl, I'd rather do that than watch two mediocre filler eps.
Uh oh. Are there normally scenes after the credits? Please say no, because I stop the show as soon as the credits roll.
No, this is sort of an outtake. Or an extra scene. And I just checked hulu-- they show it concurrent with the episode.
Is there anything in those lowly rated episodes that I can't miss? I'm halfway through The Pack, but if I can just watch Angel, The Puppet Show, Nightmares, and Prophecy Girl, I'd rather do that than watch two mediocre filler eps.
Hmm. Interesting question. Both episodes are referenced in later episodes, but I'm not sure...
OH WAIT. I Robot, You Jane introduces an important long-term character. Can't miss her.
You could probably get away with just reading a wikipedia summary of Out of Mind, Out of Sight, if you want to speed towards season 2.
Kurosawa Fan
11-17-2009, 08:35 PM
I'll just watch them both to be safe. Thanks.
Winston*
11-17-2009, 08:38 PM
You've watched that praying mantis episode, then KF? Probably the worst one of the series if I remember right. That or the one where with the beer that turns people into cavemen.
Kurosawa Fan
11-17-2009, 08:41 PM
You've watched that praying mantis episode, then KF? Probably the worst one of the series if I remember right. That or the one where with the beer that turns people into cavemen.
Nope. Already saw that one. I'm watching the one where the hyena spirit possesses Xander and a couple other kids at school.
You've watched that praying mantis episode, then KF? Probably the worst one of the series if I remember right. That or the one where with the beer that turns people into cavemen.
Watch the spoilers. It's not a big one, but better safe than sorry.
"Teacher's Pet" is baaaaad, but not as bad as my two absolute worst episodes, both in the usually-good season 4: "Beer Bad" and "Where the Wild Things Are."
Brrrrrrrrrrrrr. Badbadbadbad.
Winston*
11-17-2009, 08:48 PM
Season 4 I didn't like so much overall. I thought the main plot was stupid and it has the dullest character ever.
Season 4 I didn't like so much overall. I thought the main plot was stupid and it has the dullest character ever.
I don't like Riley and the Initiative is weak, but if you subtract those problems, it's actually some quality stuff. It has several of my favorite episodes: "Superstar" where Jonathan is the slayer, "Who Are You?" where Buffy and Faith switch bodies, "Restless" where the First Slayer traps them in the dream world, "Hush"-- one of the best from the entire series, the silent episode with the Gentlemen, "Something Blue" where Willow accidentally makes Buffy fall in love with Spike... etc, etc. We also get the start of the very sweet Tara and Willow romance.
So, I agree that season four has flaws, but under the structural problems I still really like it.
Kurosawa Fan
11-17-2009, 09:00 PM
Well, so much for the principal having any conversation with Buffy. :lol:
Well, so much for the principal having any conversation with Buffy. :lol:
That's the death I was talking about. AWESOME.
The next principal is one of my favorite characters. He's all fun and games.
Kurosawa Fan
11-18-2009, 01:57 AM
OH WAIT. I Robot, You Jane introduces an important long-term character. Can't miss her.
Please say Ms. Calendar, please say Ms. Calendar, please say Ms. Calendar...
Yowza.
Lucky
11-18-2009, 04:17 AM
I forgot Jenny was even in the first season until now.
Lucky
11-18-2009, 04:28 AM
Season 4 I didn't like so much overall. I thought the main plot was stupid and it has the dullest character ever.
Dull indeed. I actually dug The Initiative and Adam as an idea, but it was never properly executed. I do enjoy the way it was wrapped up in the episode "Primeval", even though the pacing is rushed. Although it ranks in the bottom half of my season rankings, it has 3 of my Top 10 episodes in it (Hush, Who Are You?, Restless). It's by no coincidence those three episodes have little to nothing to do with the main story arc of the season.
It's a mixed bag, that Season 4.
Please say Ms. Calendar, please say Ms. Calendar, please say Ms. Calendar...
Yowza.
She's a babe. We call her Jenny.
Interesting fact: the actress playing Jenny was 27 in the first season, while Nicky Brennan (Xander) was 26.
I forgot Jenny was even in the first season until now.
She's only in two episodes (I, Robot... You, Jane and Prophecy Girl.) She's a bigger player in the second season.
Although it ranks in the bottom half of my season rankings, it has 3 of my Top 10 episodes in it (Hush, Who Are You?, Restless).
I'm considering making a top 35 list of episodes. If I really want to write a Faith paper (and I think I might) I could use the review.
Kurosawa Fan
11-18-2009, 05:07 PM
(Be sure to watch the scene after the credits, KF, if it's on the Hulu version.)
This was fantastic. Thanks for the notice. Willow running off stage was hilarious.
Kurosawa Fan
11-18-2009, 07:15 PM
If Nightmares didn't have such a lame conclusion, it would have been one of my favorite episodes in the first season.
If Nightmares didn't have such a lame conclusion, it would have been one of my favorite episodes in the first season.
There are some good moments, for sure. The show explores a similar theme, but with more mythology and a great deal more budget, at the end of season 4.
Lucky
11-18-2009, 10:11 PM
I think I'm gonna join KF when he gets to Season 2. I have a strong desire to rewatch this show.
Thirdmango
11-18-2009, 10:46 PM
I'm considering making a top 35 list of episodes. If I really want to write a Faith paper (and I think I might) I could use the review.
Oh Man, there are a couple of shows I could possibly do this with.
thefourthwall
11-19-2009, 02:25 AM
My top 11:
1. "Once More, With Feeling" (6)
2. "The Pack" (1)
3. "Tabula Rasa" (6)
4. "Something Blue" (5)
5. "Storyteller" (7)
6. "Passion" (2)
7. "Restless" (4)
8. "Band Candy" (3)
9. "The Zeppo" (3)
10. "Buffy vs. Dracula" (5)
11. "Fool for Love" (6)
thefourthwall
11-19-2009, 02:28 AM
I'm considering making a top 35 list of episodes. If I really want to write a Faith paper (and I think I might) I could use the review.
I'd read it! I didn't like Faith when she first came on to the scene, but after seeing the whole show and story arc, I quite appreciate her role in the series. I also felt this way about Anya and Riley.
Lucky
11-19-2009, 03:11 AM
I'd read it! I didn't like Faith when she first came on to the scene, but after seeing the whole show and story arc, I quite appreciate her role in the series. I also felt this way about Anya and Riley.
To be honest, after seeing the whole gamut of the show I can also appreciate the reason for Riley. It's not his fault he was dull - that was the point. I will not defend the casting choice, though. A better actor could have at least made the character sympathetic. I liked Faith from day one. Anya took me some warmup time, but she became one of my absolute favorite characters. She was also one of the most well-written characters on the show.
Lucky
11-19-2009, 03:24 AM
My Top 20:
1. The Gift (5)
2. Restless (4)
3. Fool for Love (5)
4. Graduation Day Pt. 1 (3)
5. Once More, with Feeling (6)
6. Becoming Pt. 2 (2)
7. The Body (5)
8. Passion (2)
9. Who Are You? (4)
10. Hush (4)
11. Normal Again (6)
12. Amends (3)
13. Prophecy Girl (1)
14. Chosen (7)
15. Grad Day Pt. 2 (3)
16. Innocence (2)
17. Enemies (3)
18. Help (7)
19. The Wish (3)
20. Lies My Parents Told Me (7)
Seasons:
5 > 3 > 2 > 7 > 6 > 4 > 1
My top 11:
1. "Once More, With Feeling" (6)
2. "The Pack" (1)
3. "Tabula Rasa" (6)
4. "Something Blue" (5)
5. "Storyteller" (7)
6. "Passion" (2)
7. "Restless" (4)
8. "Band Candy" (3)
9. "The Zeppo" (3)
10. "Buffy vs. Dracula" (5)
11. "Fool for Love" (6)
No "The Body"? I'm astonished. That's my number 1. And I'm not a huge fan of "The Pack." Other than that, excellent picks.
Seasons: 5>7>3>6>4>>2>1
Kurosawa Fan
11-19-2009, 12:48 PM
I think I'm gonna join KF when he gets to Season 2. I have a strong desire to rewatch this show.
I finished season one last night, but Val now wants to catch up and watch the rest of the series with me, so it may be a week or so before I start on season two.
I finished season one last night, but Val now wants to catch up and watch the rest of the series with me, so it may be a week or so before I start on season two.
Thoughts on "Prophecy Girl"? Did you like her dress?
Kurosawa Fan
11-19-2009, 12:59 PM
Thoughts on "Prophecy Girl"? Did you like her dress?
Heh. I liked her dress.
It was very good. Good enough that I'm committed to the show through at least season three. I already grabbed season two from my sister. Loved that the prophecy was fulfilled. I was wondering how they were going to pull that off.
EvilShoe
11-19-2009, 01:10 PM
I finished season one last night, but Val now wants to catch up and watch the rest of the series with me, so it may be a week or so before I start on season two.
Why does your family hate you?
I stopped watching Buffy during season 5. Thought it was too melodramatic and Glory too lame a villain.
I was only about 17 back then, but I really don't feel like revisiting the show.
Kurosawa Fan
11-19-2009, 03:25 PM
Why does your family hate you?
Seriously.
Just found an amusing tidbit, with some spoilers for season 3:
Harry Groener, who plays the Mayor and is my favorite Buffyverse villain, and this to say about his character: "I think in his actual political life, he's a good mayor. He's probably a fairly conservative politician, a very conservative Democrat or a very liberal Republican. He likes to keep things clean. He likes things to be neat. He doesn't like a lot of clutter, so I imagine he likes to keep his town that way. It's only this other thing which makes him a little weird. Other than that he's a fairly standard mayor."
Glass Co.
11-19-2009, 06:18 PM
Just found an amusing tidbit, with some spoilers for season 3:
Harry Groener, who plays the Mayor and is my favorite Buffyverse villain, and this to say about his character: "I think in his actual political life, he's a good mayor. He's probably a fairly conservative politician, a very conservative Democrat or a very liberal Republican. He likes to keep things clean. He likes things to be neat. He doesn't like a lot of clutter, so I imagine he likes to keep his town that way. It's only this other thing which makes him a little weird. Other than that he's a fairly standard mayor."
That's fantastic. The Mayor is possibly one of my top five favourite characters on the show. Fantastic writing and performance. This quote shows how accurately Groener had it down pat.
Just popped "Restless" in while I was doing some busy work in my room for background, and HOLY CRAP they foreshadow sooooo much that happens in the next season or two.
Glass Co.
11-20-2009, 01:08 AM
Welcome!
Hi Mara!
This is TIP from Icine btw. Now that I'm beginning to explore more films I feel more suited to this board and its discussions. Or at least I will be soon. :|
Restless is sublime. Lynch-inspired most definitely, which I didn't really know the first time seeing it. It still holds up though despite that.
Oh, hey, Tippy! The film discussion on this board is superb. You'll love it.
Lucky
11-20-2009, 02:52 AM
Welcome, Tippy. Been awhile.
ledfloyd
11-20-2009, 06:02 AM
Good enough that I'm committed to the show through at least season three.
by then you'll be committed until the end.
i'm considering picking up the complete series set and giving this a much needed rewatch.
I've been leapfrogging to my favorite episodes, and after watching "Hush," I've decided one of the major differences in quality between the first couple of seasons and the rest is the MUSIC. They really got some beautiful orchestrations for the latter seasons.
Lucky
11-21-2009, 11:14 PM
Definitely. Buffy & Angel's love theme "Close Your Eyes", the piece at the end of "The Gift", and the epic theme during the finale are all favorite of mine.
the piece at the end of "The Gift"
Makes me cry.
:sad:
Lucky
11-22-2009, 02:31 AM
The Final Fight from "Chosen" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqiiP6NJkh4) (No spoilers - just music)
The beginning borrows heavily from LOTR's score, but the theme at 1:10 is awesome. I also like the orchestral interpretation of the opening credits theme song at the end.
Glass Co.
11-22-2009, 05:09 AM
Lucky! Good to see another familar face.
The same composer did the all three of the mentioned pieces right?
The same composer did the all three of the mentioned pieces right?
Possibly-- I'm actually someone who rarely notices a score. So the fact that I recognize the music from Buffy says something.
For good measure, here is the suite from "The Gift." It's called Sacrifice. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JMCtkK_GMc&feature=related) No spoilers, just music.
thefourthwall
11-23-2009, 06:38 PM
nya took me some warmup time, but she became one of my absolute favorite characters. She was also one of the most well-written characters on the show.
Yes. She's probably in the top five characters with the biggest personality growth/change.
Others:
1. Spike
2. Wesley Wyndam-Pryce
3. Cordelia
4. Anya
5. Angel
(I am of course including Angel in these.)
No "The Body"? I'm astonished. That's my number 1. And I'm not a huge fan of "The Pack." Other than that, excellent picks.
Yeah, that was a list I made to give to dreamdead so he would know which ones to pay particular attention to as he watched. I tried to stay away from the canonically different ones, which stand out on there own. Plus, while "The Body" is good, it's too heavy to watch over and over, so that may have also been why I didn't include it.
I don't know that I can rank the seasons. It's like asking people to choose their favorite children--they're each special in their own way.
During my leapfrogging of the seasons, I've stumbled across something troubling that I don't think I've seen discussed on any Buffy boards.
During late season 4 / early season 5 Buffy seemed to go through a tragic phase of particularly unfortunate pants.
Television seems to be a mostly waist-an-up medium, so I apologize for the quality of these screencaps:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/4X18_Where_The_Wild_Things_Are __023.jpg
"Where the Wild Things Are"-- serviceable, bulky gray sweater: okay. Slick reptile-print pants: horrible.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/5X03_The_replacement__213_1.jp g
"The Replacement": possibly Buffy's ugliest-ever clothes. The striped, glittery halter-top sweater ain't pretty, the non-glittery bathrope-type sweater clashes badly, and the tie-dyed brown pants are nightmare-inducing. It's like the world's worst Laundry Day.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/5X01_Buffy_vs_Dracula_0290_1.j pg
And in "Buffy vs. Dracula," Buffy wears the same pair of unflattering, shiny plastic pants in red....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/5X01_Buffy_vs_Dracula_1005_1.j pg
...and pink.
What is Joss trying to tell us? Something about modern feminity and the nature of heroism/myth? Or, possibly, that women make really bad choices from the waist down? (Hee hee hee.)
thefourthwall
11-23-2009, 08:32 PM
Wow. That is so spot on. Although, I can kind of dig the red ones.
Wow. That is so spot on. Although, I can kind of dig the red ones.
HAHAHAAHAHA YOUR AVATAR HAS THE FUNNY SYPHILIS.
And the red pants make Buffy look bottom-heavy, which is just crazy. She's so petite.
Lucky
11-23-2009, 08:50 PM
Wow. That is so spot on. Although, I can kind of dig the red ones.
Me too. Pink ones I'll give you Mara. Didn't Buffy wear those red pants during the epic fight in grad day pt 1?
Didn't Buffy wear those red pants during the epic fight in grad day pt 1?
Hm... looks like she wore some version of red pants during that scene. I think they were less shiny.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/GraduationDay1_539.jpg
But those pants were hot. Or, maybe, that scene was just hot.
Lucky
11-23-2009, 09:36 PM
Buffy has some awesomely bad pants in the season premiere of Season 2, too. I just watched it the other night. Hopefully I can find a screenshot, it's literally the pantstyle my grandma wears.
Lucky
11-23-2009, 09:47 PM
Success! (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/screencaps/013/index.php?id=660) ...except I don't know how to post as an image.
Any higher and those pants could double as a bra.
ledfloyd
11-23-2009, 10:18 PM
i like the red pants.
Buffy has some awesomely bad pants in the season premiere of Season 2, too. I just watched it the other night. Hopefully I can find a screenshot, it's literally the pantstyle my grandma wears.
I'm not usually someone who, when you mention an episode, I immediately remember what Buffy was wearing, but for me "When She Was Bad" is very deeply connected with the red-brown dress she wears for her sexy dance.
But, yes, those are powerful bad pants.
This leads into an interesting question for me: WHY IS BUFFY SO COLD? She seriously wears sweaters, overcoats and knit caps waaaaaaay too often for someone who lives in Southern California.
And, it must be said, you wouldn't think someone with that much aversion to cold would spend so much time boinking the room-temperature undead.
Look: What Buffy thinks is appropriate attire for the desert in the middle of the day:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Intervention086.jpg
The problem is that the Buffy wardrobe persons have an aversion to jeans. None of the main female characters (Buffy, Willow, Tara, Anya, Cordelia) wear jeans regularly. (Dawn does, though.)
It's unfortunate, because-- let's face it-- girlfriend looks fierce in jeans.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/omwf_743.jpg
True conversation I just had with my sister, who called:
EM: Did you look up that information for me?
ME: Oh, sorry, got distracted. I'm online talking about Buffy's ugly pants. DON'T JUDGE.
EM: Huh... I don't remember Buffy having bad pants. [PAUSE] Wait... doesn't she fight someone in pink pants once? Those were awful.
:lol:
thefourthwall
11-23-2009, 11:03 PM
Hah! to that phone conversation.
Those high green ones are super memorable...
And I have an answer for there silly CA attire, but it spoils the magic
people look better on tv when their arms are covered
Although I have less problem with Buffy's pants overall, than Cordelia's daily wearing of cocktail dresses to high school.
Although I have less problem with Buffy's pants overall, than Cordelia's daily wearing of cocktail dresses to high school.
Well, but Cordy is one of the characters who is defined by her clothes. (See also: Spike and Willow.) You only need to glance at what they are wearing to know their mood and stage of development.
Or if she's going to eat the world alive.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/thewish044.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/thewish045.jpg
The first time I saw that scene, I said aloud, "Oh, Cordy. I love you."
thefourthwall
11-23-2009, 11:20 PM
Hmm. Perhaps. I don't remember what her clothes do for her in Angel; do they change as her character does?
Cordelia was a character I also took awhile to warm up to, and my initial vitriolic reactions to her and her clothing are probably mostly just redirected annoyance at the popular, too-together girls in my high school.
Hmm. Perhaps. I don't remember what her clothes do for her in Angel; do they change as her character does?
Actually, I think after her family loses all its money at the end of season three, her clothes tone waaaaaay done.
I find the evolution of Willow's clothes amusing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/buffy101_124.jpg
Season 1: frumpy, boxy, no bright colors, nothing fitted, knee-length skirts, layers.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/tabula_rasa_155-1.jpg
Season 6: BREASTS! Fitted, colors, lots of earth-mother and goddess type patterns, long skirts.
dreamdead
11-24-2009, 01:53 PM
It was indeed depressing that as Alyson Hannigan became successively hotter, and was portrayed as such, Whedon and company had to deal with Sarah Michelle Gellar's shift toward gauntness.
I always hated Whedon for getting rid of Anya. I think she got the greatest lines after season 3...
And, apropos of nothing since we're apparently sharing images, I love, love, love this visual.
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/14787/477222-anya02_super.jpg
thefourthwall
11-24-2009, 02:08 PM
When I went to Dragon-Con, a couple of years ago, there was a midnight showing singalong of "Once More With Feeling." They had people acting out/lipsynching while it played on side screens and then they had people to be special effects/Rocky Horror-esque audience participation. I caught one of the stuffed rabbits they threw into the crowd during Anya's rock diatribe against bunnies. Much fun.
Trying to watch at least parts of my 35 favorite episodes to maybe make a list, and I can't even watch "The Gift." It's seven minutes in and I'm crying like a baby.
BUFFY: Pretty simple math here. We stop Glory before she can start the ritual. We still have a couple of hours, right?
GILES: If my calculations are right. But Buffy-
BUFFY: I don't wanna hear it. (turns away)
GILES: I understand that-
BUFFY: (whirls back) No! No, you don't understand. We are not talking about this.
GILES: (jumps up from the table, yells) Yes, we bloody well are!
Beat. Everyone looks shocked by Giles' outburst.
GILES: (quieter) If Glory begins the ritual ... if we can't stop her...
BUFFY: Come on. Say it. We're bloody well talking about this. Tell me to kill my sister.
GILES: (whispers) She's not your sister.
BUFFY: (pause) No. She's not. She's more than that. She's me. The monks made her out of me. I hold her ... and I feel closer to her than ... (looks down, sighs) It's not just the memories they built. It's physical. Dawn ... is a part of me. The only part that I- (stops)
WILLOW: We'll solve this. We will. Don't have another coma, okay?
Buffy gives a small smile.
GILES: (quietly) If the ritual starts, then every living creature in this and every other dimension imaginable will suffer unbearable torment and death ... (looks up at Buffy) including Dawn.
BUFFY: Then the last thing she'll see is me protecting her.
:cry:
thefourthwall
11-24-2009, 06:00 PM
Good gosh...I want to cry just reading that.
Lucky
11-24-2009, 09:49 PM
I've never admitted this before, but SMG was not so attractive during Season 6. Way too thin. Thankfully, she looked good in the final year. Short hair does not suit her as her long hair is one of her best features.
And it's unfortunate because that's the season she has the most sex...
I didn't notice her getting alarmingly thin (she's always thin, so it probably didn't register) but I really didn't like her short season 6 haircut. Everyone on the show keeps mentioning how cute it was and... bleh.
I think SMG's best feature are her eyes, though, and those always stayed pretty.
Can't get a good shot of it, but Buffy was apparently experimenting with red pants as early as "Doppelgangland."
ledfloyd
11-25-2009, 10:02 PM
mmm... red pants.
i need to stop clicking this thread. it's going to inevitably end in me purchasing the chosen collection.
KF, you sure as crap better not have been reading the other thread.
Tsk, tsk.
Also, there's no reason KS shouldn't have finished season 1 by now.
Kurosawa Fan
11-28-2009, 02:08 PM
KF, you sure as crap better not have been reading the other thread.
Tsk, tsk.
Also, there's no reason KS shouldn't have finished season 1 by now.
I read nothing. Promise.
And KS hasn't even started season one. Pretty sure I'm pressing on without her.
And KS hasn't even started season one. Pretty sure I'm pressing on without her.
I really think she'd like it. Even if you start season 2, you should encourage her to watch.
Kurosawa Fan
11-28-2009, 03:02 PM
I really think she'd like it. Even if you start season 2, you should encourage her to watch.
I think so too, but we have so many shows to watch, she just can't find the time. She watched the first two episodes a few months back but didn't have time to watch more, and since I wasn't watching it, she decided to abandon it.
thefourthwall
11-28-2009, 09:48 PM
Yes. She's probably in the top five characters with the biggest personality growth/change.
Others:
1. Spike
2. Wesley Wyndam-Pryce
3. Cordelia
4. Anya
5. Angel
(I am of course including Angel in these.)
Actually in further thinking, prompted by some issues in Mara's Buffy thread, Faith should be here at number 3.
Kurosawa Fan
12-05-2009, 02:03 PM
Started season two last night. "When She Was Bad" was a solid start, though I think they took Buffy's bitchiness a step too far with what took place between she and Xander at The Bronze. Still, I liked it. Loved the last line of the episode from The Anointed One.
Started season two last night. "When She Was Bad" was a solid start, though I think they took Buffy's bitchiness a step too far with what took place between she and Xander at The Bronze. Still, I liked it. Loved the last line of the episode from The Anointed One.
This introduces a minor reoccuring theme of Buffy flirting with bad-girl-ness. As one character famously puts it many years later: "You just love to play the thought that you might misbehave."
You're coming up on some good stuff-- episodes 3 and 6 are stand-outs-- and I can't wait to hear your reactions.
Kurosawa Fan
12-05-2009, 08:18 PM
Yikes. Second episode, not so good. Frankenstein has never been so bad.
Yikes. Second episode, not so good. Frankenstein has never been so bad.
#2, 4 & 12 are the eye-roll-worthy episodes this season. (Fewer than last.) I'm of the minority opinion that the second season isn't too strong. Huge fan of season 3, though.
In case you're curious, 2.17, 2.6, 2.13 & 14, and 2.16 made my top 35 episode list.
Kurosawa Fan
12-05-2009, 08:32 PM
Watching ep. 3 right now. Spike's intro was good.
Kurosawa Fan
12-05-2009, 09:12 PM
Wow. Ep. 3 was awesome. Spike is bad ass. I do find it a little silly that other students/parents/teachers aren't catching on when they see people with evil mutilated faces. I'm a parent, and I'm aware that PCP doesn't make people's faces mutate.
Hilarious split-second joke from the sixth season:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/omwf_308.jpg
Kurosawa Fan
12-05-2009, 09:22 PM
Heh.
I'm a little confused by the connotations hinted at by the episode about Principal Snyder.
If he's aware of the truth of what goes on in that town, why would he attempt to leave the school by himself, leading that parent/teacher to his death? Seems a bit odd. Time will probably tell. Good to know others are aware of what's going on in their town. Makes everything seem a tad less ridiculous.
Lucky
12-06-2009, 03:45 AM
#2, 4 & 12 are the eye-roll-worthy episodes this season. (Fewer than last.) I'm of the minority opinion that the second season isn't too strong. Huge fan of season 3, though.
In case you're curious, 2.17, 2.6, 2.13 & 14, and 2.16 made my top 35 episode list.
I actually like 4 & 12. 11 & 18 are much worse. Especially 18.
I actually like 4 & 12. 11 & 18 are much worse. Especially 18.
I don't have a problem with either. In fact, I'd say that 11 was second-tier enjoyable. But I love that guest actor.
I've just had a profound* realization.
*This may be overstating it.
Angel (the series) was trying to do what Torchwood actually did. You start with a large, sucessful show that banks on being somewhat scary, very clever, and boderline goofy (BtVS, Doctor Who) and spin-off a more serious series based on a popular semi-minor character that deals with grittier themes.
At least in theory.
And I'll admit, Torchwood stumbled, during the first season especially, where it felt like it was just being explicit for the sake of being explicit. But it found a real groove and the latest season was actually extraordinary.
But Angel just never really jelled for me, because the more it tried to distance itself from being goofy, the sillier it seemed. I'm checking out the third episode, and some chickie says regarding her abusive boyfriend: "I start jonseing for him, the way he jonses for rock."
:lol:
THAT'S FUNNIER THAN THE EPISODE WITH ALL THE PUPPETS. But I don't think it's supposed to be.
Kurosawa Fan
12-11-2009, 08:57 PM
Holy "Halloween"!!! That's EASILY my favorite episode thus far. Funny, entertaining, revelatory, etc., etc., etc. That was awesome.
Holy "Halloween"!!! That's EASILY my favorite episode thus far. Funny, entertaining, revelatory, etc., etc., etc. That was awesome.
Yeah, it's cool. It made #26 on my list.
My entry, out of context:
26. Halloween (2.6)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Halloween_221.jpg
Buffy: It's just... you're never gonna get noticed if you keep hiding. You're missing the whole point of Halloween.
Willow: Free candy?
Buffy: It's come as you aren't night. The perfect chance for a girl to get sexy and wild with no repercussions.
Summary: Ethan Rayne comes to town, selling costumes that magically make the wearers become what they are pretending to be.
Why I love it: Here's another chance for us to mix-up what we think about the characters. Quiet, meek Willow ends up taking charge. Funny guy Xander becomes a deathly serious soldier. And badass Buffy becomes a girl who faints and clings at any sign of danger. She also inexplicably changes from an awesome wig (above) to a horrible one:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Halloween_308.jpg
We also get our first introduction to Giles' "Ripper" past.
The running joke about Halloween plays out for the rest of the series. Ironically, it's supposed to be a day when the supernatural elements stay home and let everyone else dress up like spooks and ghouls, but even though we are told again and again that nothing ever happens on Halloween, in BtVS, something ALMOST ALWAYS happens on Halloween. See also: Buffy's birthday.
My main problem with this episode is that SMG, bless her, does a flipping awful job as the damsel in distress. Her accent is all over the place, she has one scared-bunny expression, and she isn't given much to do. The dialogue she's given is also terrible, like someone who was reconstructing an idea of old-timey-ladies based on one long-forgotten episode of Masterpiece Theatre. Come on, people, like a little bit of research would kill you?
Xander makes up for it, though. He does a great job morphing completely into a very different character, who is brave, decisive, and sexually confident. (This is one of Xander's hottest episodes. Rewatch the scene where he gives Cordelia his shirt. You're welcome.)
And it's really fun to watch Willow's peek-a-boo sexuality in this episode. She keeps hiding and uncovering, uncomfortable either way. She's still figuring out who she wants to be.
...no spoilers in that one, I think. I often referenced later episodes and seasons in my write-ups.
Kurosawa Fan
12-11-2009, 09:14 PM
Totally agree about SMG in the episode, but everyone else made up for it. Xander had some hilarious lines. And the highlight of the episode was Giles' reaction when Willow walked through the wall into the library. Holy crap, I think I laughed for a solid five minutes.
Lucky
12-12-2009, 01:38 AM
The next episode's a good one, too. Actually, the next four episodes are a good string.
[ETM]
12-16-2009, 11:56 PM
http://saved.im/mtuymtqzew81/633963873657399225-buffypleasecomeback.jpg
I LOLd.
Kurosawa Fan
12-17-2009, 03:36 PM
I finished "Surprise" yesterday, and am going to try to find time to fit in "Innocence" this afternoon, though I'm home with my four-year-old, so that probably ain't happening. Some quick thoughts on the episodes since Halloween:
Lie to Me through What's My Line Part 2 were very good. Ted was awful. Worse than I thought it would be, even being a fan of Ritter. Bad Eggs had potential with those Alien-esque critter. It had some great lines and creepy moments. Then it all went to pot in the last 12 or so minutes. Plus those cowboy vamps were inexcusable. Still, not as bad as I thought it would be considering how everyone I know (sister and coworker included) hate it.
Surprise was solid, and I'm dying to know why Angel is screaming in the rain after finally getting laid. Poor fella.
Glass Co.
12-17-2009, 04:26 PM
I love watching people's first time reactions to this show.
All I will say, is some good stuff is coming. :) You may have already mentioned it but how spoiled are you for the series, KF?
Lie to Me through What's My Line Part 2 were very good. Ted was awful. Worse than I thought it would be, even being a fan of Ritter. Bad Eggs had potential with those Alien-esque critter. It had some great lines and creepy moments. Then it all went to pot in the last 12 or so minutes. Plus those cowboy vamps were inexcusable. Still, not as bad as I thought it would be considering how everyone I know (sister and coworker included) hate it.
Surprise was solid, and I'm dying to know why Angel is screaming in the rain after finally getting laid. Poor fella.
...I wouldn't recommend "Innocence" with a four-year-old in the room. That said, watch it ASAP.
So, I hate "Bad Eggs" and I like "Ted." I know, everyone just hates it, but it holds a special, cheesy place in my heart.
"Surprise" and "Innocence" kick off a fantastic streak of episodes.
Kurosawa Fan
12-17-2009, 04:42 PM
I love watching people's first time reactions to this show.
All I will say, is some good stuff is coming. :) You may have already mentioned it but how spoiled are you for the series, KF?
The only things I know for sure are that
Jenny dies and that Buffy and Spike eventually get together. Oh, and that Willow is really a lesbian, which I find ridiculous at this point.
Otherwise I'm pretty much spoiler free.
The only things I know for sure are that
Jenny dies and that Buffy and Spike eventually get together. Oh, and that Willow is really a lesbian, which I find ridiculous at this point.
Otherwise I'm pretty much spoiler free.
Regarding those spoilers, you have to trust that no matter how odd some of the developments may seem, some of these storylines play out over years and years and happen organically and believably.
Kurosawa Fan
12-17-2009, 04:56 PM
Regarding those spoilers, you have to trust that no matter how odd some of the developments may seem, some of these storylines play out over years and years and happen organically and believably.
The only thing that bothers me is Willow becoming a lesbian. Right now she's boy-crazy, and I can't imagine what in her life would happen at that age to suddenly make her step back and go, "whoa, I like girls!". It just doesn't make sense to me. But even if I don't like it and don't like how it comes about, it seems easy enough to just push aside.
The only thing that bothers me is Willow becoming a lesbian. Right now she's boy-crazy, and I can't imagine what in her life would happen at that age to suddenly make her step back and go, "whoa, I like girls!". It just doesn't make sense to me. But even if I don't like it and don't like how it comes about, it seems easy enough to just push aside.
I've read articles that claim that Willow's sexual awakening is extremely realistic. I've never personally become a lesbian, so I can't weigh in.
Kurosawa Fan
12-17-2009, 05:36 PM
I've read articles that claim that Willow's sexual awakening is extremely realistic. I've never personally become a lesbian, so I can't weigh in.
Perhaps. It doesn't seem in line with most of the confessions I've read (which aren't too many, to be sure, but enough to make a small sample size). Nearly every person that I know personally or have read about knew at a young age, and tried to date to fit in or resist their natural prediliction. I've yet to read or hear from anyone who, going into college, really thought they were straight and pined after boys (or girls), only to realize later that they were indeed gay. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but Willow shows no signs of being a lesbian at this point, and I find that hard to swallow. Alas, it's fairly inconsequential to my enjoyment of the show.
ledfloyd
12-18-2009, 07:27 AM
i love ted.
Lucky
12-18-2009, 11:39 AM
Surprise was solid, and I'm dying to know why Angel is screaming in the rain after finally getting laid. Poor fella.
heh heh heh.
Kurosawa Fan
12-18-2009, 11:55 AM
Awesome. So, so awesome. I was only able to watch "Innocence" last night, but I can't wait to see how this all unfolds. That episode was just brilliant.
Awesome. So, so awesome. I was only able to watch "Innocence" last night, but I can't wait to see how this all unfolds. That episode was just brilliant.
I'm so glad you weren't spoiled on this. (I was, when I saw it.)
My write up of the two episodes: (#29 on my list)
29. Suprise (I) and Innocence (II) (2.13 & 2.14)
2.13 Written by Marti Noxon, Directed by Michael Lange, 2.14 Written & Directed by Joss Whedon)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Suprise839.jpg
Spike: You've really got a yen to hurt this girl, haven't you?
Angel: She made me feel like a human being. That's not the kind of thing you just forgive.
Summary: In the second two-parter on my list, Buffy has a really bad birthday, and Angel turns into Angelus.
Why I love it: This is a fascinating turn of events, though it doesn't really play out at full volume until [RETRACTED FOR SPOILERS]. For all the awesome moments (and there are several), this is the prelude to the piece, which is probably why it didn't rank higher on my list.
The introduction of Angelus is shocking, disorienting, and sets up the entire rest of the season. Seeing him turn on our other characters... wow.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Innocence331.jpg
These episodes are all about betrayal and emotional manipulation, both by Angel and, to a lesser extent, by Jenny. A minor moment that I didn't really process the first time I watched the episode is where Giles shows Jenny, whom we know he loves, exactly where his loyalty lies.
Jenny: Do you, uh... Is there something I can do?
Buffy: Get out.
Jenny: I-I just want to help.
Giles: She just said get out.
Interesting Tidbits:
In the flashback to Buffy and Angel having sex, the breathy-sexy sounds were not made by the actors. Joss was too embarassed to ask them to come in and record sexy noises, so he and the sound editor did the noises. I find this amusing.
Kurosawa Fan
12-18-2009, 09:39 PM
Moving on, the werewolf episode was decent. Nothing special. Though I am getting tired of a quirk hitting every recurring character outside of the fearsome foursome.
The love spell episode was the bees knees. Probably my favorite episode behind Surprise and Innocence, ranking just ahead of Halloween. Some HILARIOUS moments in there, especially Jenny coming to confront Giles and ending up molesting Xander.
The love spell episode was the bees knees. Probably my favorite episode behind Surprise and Innocence, ranking just ahead of Halloween. Some HILARIOUS moments in there, especially Jenny coming to confront Giles and ending up molesting Xander.
It squeaked onto my list as #35.
35. Bewitched, Bothered, & Bewildered (2.16)
Written by Marti Noxon, Directed by James A. Contner
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/BBB_628.jpg
Drusilla: Your face is a poem. Oh, I can read it.
Xander: Really? It doesn't say, "spare me" by any chance?
Drusilla: How do you feel about eternal life?
Xander: We couldn't just start with a coffee? A movie, maybe?
Summary: Facing peer pressure from her friends, especially Harmony (who has really awesome hair this episode), Cordelia dumps Xander on Valentine's Day. He's annoyed, and so gets Amy to cast a love spell on her, which goes hilariously awry.
Why I love it: First of all, it's funny and Xander-centric, which always go well together. We get to see normally-staid characters making fools of themselves, like Jenny and Joyce. Willow threatens Xander with an ax and Buffy gets turned into a rat. It's fantastic.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/BBB_413.jpg
Also, for an itty bitty person, SMG has some killer legs.
And, while Xander seems really upset by the love spell at the time, he remembers it fondly in later episodes. Good ol' Xander.
We also get a darker, creepier subplot of Angelus sending increasingly threatening messages to Buffy for Valentine's Day, which is naturally a precursor to [RETRACTED FOR SPOILERS]. For the first time, we start getting some nasty details on what Angelus does for fun.
Giles: Look, here's another. Here. Um, 'Valentine's Day.' Yes, uh... 'Angel nails a puppy to the...'
Buffy: Skip it.
Giles: Uh, but it...
Buffy: I don't wanna know. I don't have a puppy. Skip it.
My favorite part of the episode, though, is at the end when Cordelia finally stand up to her friends to fight for her own happiness and defend Xander... sort of.
Cordelia: You're a sheep. All you ever do is what everyone else does just so you can say you did it first. And here I am, scrambling for your approval, when I'm way cooler than you are 'cause I'm not a sheep. I do what I wanna do, and I wear what I wanna wear. And you know what? I'll date whoever the hell I wanna date. No matter how lame he is.
And there, ladies and gentlemen, is the first moment when I thought these two crazy kids might actually be good for each other.
You have now seen all but one of the episodes from season 2 that made my list.
I love hearing your responses, by the way. It's like experiencing it for the first time again.
the fearsome foursome
They are also known as "the core four."
And, eventually, "the Scooby Gang."
Kurosawa Fan
12-18-2009, 11:45 PM
They are also known as "the core four."
And, eventually, "the Scooby Gang."
I had no idea they were referred to as the fearsome foursome. That just sprung to mind (sprang? sprung? Not sure which one is correct there). I like the Scooby Gang. Pretty sure Xander referred to them as such in passing in an episode I've already seen.
I had no idea they were referred to as the fearsome foursome. That just sprung to mind (sprang? sprung? Not sure which one is correct there). I like the Scooby Gang. Pretty sure Xander referred to them as such in passing in an episode I've already seen.
No, I think you made up "fearsome foursome" but I like it.
The term "Scooby Gang" and "Scoobies" becomes more and more common. It encompasses the core four, plus those who wander in and out (like Cordelia.)
Kurosawa Fan
12-18-2009, 11:58 PM
No, I think you made up "fearsome foursome" but I like it.
The term "Scooby Gang" and "Scoobies" becomes more and more common. It encompasses the core four, plus those who wander in and out (like Cordelia.)
Awesome. I gave them a new nickname. I'm sticking with it.
Lucky
12-19-2009, 01:17 AM
I predict that the next episode will be your new #1, K-Fan.
Kurosawa Fan
12-19-2009, 03:34 AM
I predict that the next episode will be your new #1, K-Fan.
Dammit man, you can't say things like this at the end of the night! I have nothing left for an episode after watching Harry Potter tonight.
The only thing that bothers me is Willow becoming a lesbian. Right now she's boy-crazy, and I can't imagine what in her life would happen at that age to suddenly make her step back and go, "whoa, I like girls!". It just doesn't make sense to me. But even if I don't like it and don't like how it comes about, it seems easy enough to just push aside.
It works for me. I don't think she was ever really boy crazy so much as she gravitated towards boys she thought were cool or funny, and became attached because she's a needy person. It's the same reason she was drawn to Tara, she just happened to be female--and from there I guess she found she prefers the fairer sex in general. Alyson Hannigan just really pulls it off.
I'm so glad you're enjoying the show, and I'm jealous after knowing it inside out (we're talking Mara levels of fandom here) that you get to go through it all without knowing what's to come and be excited/shocked along the way! I hope you'll check out Angel afterwards, because it's brilliant too.
Also, I just watched Becoming 1 & 2 today, funnily enough. Hope you like them.
Lucky
12-19-2009, 05:27 AM
Dammit man, you can't say things like this at the end of the night! I have nothing left for an episode after watching Harry Potter tonight.
It's the best ep of the second season. On my top ten eps. Just sayin'.
It's the best ep of the second season. On my top ten eps. Just sayin'.
I've been biting my lip. Trying not to raise expectations too much.
Kurosawa Fan
12-20-2009, 12:27 PM
Update time!
Passion was great, but I still think it ranks second for me, behind Innocence. It didn't have the same emotional punch, and it could be because I knew about Jenny already. Still, fantastic episode. Loved Giles going into ass-kicking mode, no matter how foolish it was. Thought they went too quickly with Buffy's confrontation outside when all was said and done.
Killed by Death gets points for Richard Herd, but then loses those points for having him do absolutely nothing. Also points for Xander standing up to Angel. It also had one of the funniest moments of the series thus far, when Xander tells Cordelia that she has to go with Giles. Giles' initial childish reaction is priceless. Still, the episode was inconsequential, and a bit silly. Not one of their brightest moments. Oh, almost forgot, I also loved Cordelia bringing Xander coffee and donuts and sitting with him at the hospital. Really nice moment. Too bad the episode couldn't live up to those little moments.
I Only Have Eyes for You was solid. Buffy and Angel's scenes were great. Angel has become one of my favorite characters. I'll be honest: before I found him kind of a wimpering lapdog. It's probably the fault of our trendy times, but he had way too much Edward Cullen. The new Angel is much more fun, and at least adds a new layer for the future (since I'm sure this Angel isn't sticking around long-term). Love the implications of that final scene with Spike. Can't wait to see how this season wraps up.
I wanted to watch Go Fish as well, but couldn't do it. I was way too tired. My wife and I have a friend coming over tonight, so I probably won't get to watch any more until tomorrow. I'll finish season two then.
Passion tends to be a fan favorite. It was my highest-ranking second season episode:
18. Passion (2.17)
Written by Ty King. Directed by Michaael Gershman
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Passion050.jpg
Angelus: Passion. It lies in all of us. Sleeping...waiting... And though unwanted... unbidden... it will stir... open its jaws... and howl.
Summary: Angelus threatens Buffy, threatens Buffy's mom, kills Willow's fish, tells Joyce he slept with Buffy, kills Jenny, and puts on a little theatrical performance for Giles. This is the "ANGELUS IS A BASTARD" episode.
Why I love it: They keep telling us over and over how scary Angelus is, but this is the first time we really see it. (Although, how dickish was it that he insulted Buffy's sexual performance in "Innocence"? Jerk.)
It's also the first time I think we realize that part of the reason he's so focused on killing Buffy is because he still does desire her sexually. The love and empathy may have gone away, but the obsession is still there.
Buffy: He's completely different from the guy that I knew.
Willow: Well, sort of, except...
Buffy: Except what?
Willow: You're still the only thing he thinks about.
This is the third time in the second season that the focus of the Big Bad changes. In the first couple of episodes, it looks like we're still worried about The Master and The Annointed One. But then Spike and Dru show up and dust The Annointed One, and they seem much scarier. But now, with Angelus in the picture, Spike and Dru look like kittens. It's a very interesting way to up the stakes.
The character of Angel is a divisive one. Personally, I find the brooding-and-lurking routine gets old really fast. Pretty much everyone agrees, though, that he makes a helluva bad guy when he turns. It's not just that he likes killing, because all the vampires do, it's how much he loves torturing people emotionally. What he does with Willow's fish, for example-- or all the sexually emasculating things he does to Spike, just for kicks.
I'm curious what you'll think of Go Fish. It's a bit silly, but the show often gives us a tiny emotional rest before nailing us with the big stuff, and the season does end with a bang.
Let's talk about Alyson Hannigan's acting skills.
Not for KF. No clicking!
Trying a few episodes of Angel again to see if I like it better, and I don't. It's still a strange mix of silly and erratic. But I watched the ridiculous sequence where they go to Lorne's home planet, walk back in... and Willow is standing there to tell them about Buffy's death in season 5.
And I totally start tearing up, just looking at her face. She doesn't even say anything. I love that woman.
And any Alyson Hannigan fans who haven't seen this (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/fcc_okays_nudity_on_tv_if_it_s ) bit from The Onion, they should really check it out.
Kurosawa Fan
12-22-2009, 01:41 AM
Yikes. I think Go Fish may be my least favorite episode. I think the only redeeming scene was when Cordelia thought it was Xander swimming in the pool in his.. transformed state. Otherwise, no thank you.
Yikes. I think Go Fish may be my least favorite episode. I think the only redeeming scene was when Cordelia thought it was Xander swimming in the pool in his.. transformed state. Otherwise, no thank you.
Yeah, it's pretty lame, as I recall. As a happily married man with children, I'm sure you can't appreciate the only other thing that this episode has to offer, which is some Xander eye-candy.
It's one of those I tend to only half-pay attention to if I'm rewatching the series, except perhaps to watch the scene you mentioned... because, really, I find Cordy hilarious.
Cordelia: It's me, Cordelia? I know you can't answer me, but... God, this is all my fault. You joined the swim team to impress me. You were so courageous. And you looked really hot in those Speedos. And I want you to know that I still care about you, no matter what you look like. And... and we can still date. Or, or not. I mean... I understand if you wanna see other fish. I'll do everything I can to make your quality of life better. Whether that means little bath toys or whatever.
Kurosawa Fan
12-22-2009, 03:31 AM
LOVED the finale. Did not see that coming AT ALL. Val was at my sister's house tonight watching Dr. Who, so she's going to bring home season three for me. Can't wait.
I'll talk more about the finale tomorrow. Time for bed.
I really like season three. I feel like it is one of the most consistent seasons (in that the ratio of awesome to mediocre episodes is excellent.) It's really solid.
And it has my favorite "big bad" of any season.
I'll talk more about the finale tomorrow. Time for bed.
Be sure to mention how much you love the scene between Spike and Joyce. Don't they have fantastic chemistry?
ledfloyd
12-22-2009, 06:25 AM
i really like season 3 but
i had had enough of angel by the end of it
i really like season 3 but
i had had enough of angel by the end of it
Angel is one thing.
Angel and Buffy tearfully arguing about why they can never be together makes me want to throw something.
A quick glance shows that there is only one episode in the third season that I would say I actually dislike... and it's the second. (3.2) Other than that, they range between average and awesome.
My main problem with season three is shallow.
Not enough Spike. :sad:
Mild season three spoilers.
For those who haven't watched Angel, or haven't seen it in awhile, you have to see this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uugm29zsDZA) scene where Cordy and Wesley make fun of the on-again-off-again nature of Buffy and Angel's relationship.
ledfloyd
12-22-2009, 06:22 PM
Mild season three spoilers.
For those who haven't watched Angel, or haven't seen it in awhile, you have to see this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uugm29zsDZA) scene where Cordy and Wesley make fun of the on-again-off-again nature of Buffy and Angel's relationship.
HAHA! i need to get around to watching angel one of these days. mmm... cordy.
i agree though, their relationship borders on twilight towards the end. as much as it pains me to say that about one of my favorite shows. otherwise, it's likely the strongest season.
HAHA! i need to get around to watching angel one of these days. mmm... cordy.
Eh.
It's the stylistic opposite of Buffy. BtVS has a strong internal structure, with solid episodes periodically interrupted by weak ones.
Angel has a shaky internal structure-- sometimes drifting into baffling-- that is mostly mediocre episodes sometimes creeping up to strong.
It's not a terrible show, but I can't really recommend it whole-heartedly.
ledfloyd
12-22-2009, 06:31 PM
Eh.
It's the stylistic opposite of Buffy. BtVS has a strong internal structure, with solid episodes periodically interrupted by weak ones.
Angel has a shaky internal structure-- sometimes drifting into baffling-- that is mostly mediocre episodes sometimes creeping up to strong.
It's not a terrible show, but I can't really recommend it whole-heartedly.
well then, maybe i won't!
well then, maybe i won't!
There are also advantages.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/ttlg426.jpg
Or, more specifically--
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/AlexisDenisof_meins.jpg
Rowr.
ledfloyd
12-22-2009, 06:52 PM
quit confusing me!
quit confusing me!
You think you're confused?
I watched it like this.
"This plotline is ridiculous. I wish they'd stop cutting Cordy's hair. I want Alexis Denisof to put babies inside me. Oh, right, you can totally see Angel's reflection in that mirror."
ledfloyd
12-22-2009, 06:58 PM
cordy looks cute with short hair.
cordy looks cute with short hair.
No.
Cordelia has this long, beautiful, full hair that I would kill for, in a very rich color.
I don't like it cut, and I hate hate HATE it when they put in highlights.
Spoilered for the awfulness.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/angels2s8.jpg
Lucky
12-22-2009, 09:00 PM
I am also not a fan of Cordelia's short hair.
Can't wait to hear K-Fan's thoughts on the finale. It's cool that you weren't spoiled on that.
ledfloyd
12-22-2009, 09:16 PM
The highlights are lame but the short hair is cute
Kurosawa Fan
12-22-2009, 09:49 PM
Okay, these will be quick as it's getting close to quitting time for me. Finale rocked. Did not see that ending coming at all. Figured they'd go the happy route. Also, you got a sense of the chemistry between Buffy and Spike, which was cool. It became apparent that Spike is only out for himself. And yes, his scene with Buffy's mom was fantastic. He's just awesome in general. Telling Buffy to hold on while he killed that cop was great too.
I'm now four eps into season three. Here's a very brief rundown on my thoughts on each:
Anne - Disappointing for a season premiere. I'm glad I didn't wait three months for that. Wasn't a bad episode by any means, and I loved the group filling in during Buffy's absence, but the "Hell" plot was lame. Also didn't care much for Buffy's mom blaming everything on Giles.
Dead Man's Party - Could have been great. They did a great job establishing the awkwardness between everyone, but then they took things too far and it became melodramatic and silly. Still, the episode had highlights, especially Giles making fun of Buffy's mom and the mask while driving to the house.
Faith, Hope & Trick - First great episode of the season. Cloven guy was a disappointment, but the rest of the episode rocked. I like Faith. Seems like she could be a very fun addition to the group.
Beauty and the Beasts - Very good episode, but doesn't quite reach greatness for two reasons. One, I don't like the werewolf angle. Something about it doesn't work for me. Two, I don't understand why Buffy thought she needed to hide Angel's reemergence from everyone, especially Giles. Sure, Xander hates him and would have reacted badly, but Giles might be able to help him. That was a head-scratcher. Also didn't care for the murder mystery either. Amplified jealousy in high school males is a tired story, and they didn't do much to prove otherwise. However, Giles getting shot with the tranq gun was the highlight of the season thus far.
Wow-- zipping on through. The next episode is enjoyable, and the one after that is out of the park. I can't wait to hear your thoughts.
And I love Faith. Really. I find her mindset fascinating.
I want Alexis Denisof to put babies inside me.
I write that to get it out of my system, then I come home and get assaulted by THIS ADORABLENESS:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/36554PCN_Alyson10.jpg
By the way, KF, in case you're behind on your BtVS gossip, Alyson Hannigan married a guy she met on Buffy. He's a character that you'll meet in season three. He's the father of that baby, and I might be a little bit in love with him.
well then, maybe i won't!
Another note: there's an episode where you get to see Summer Glau ballet dancing. She's amazing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/angel1.jpg
Eh.
It's the stylistic opposite of Buffy. BtVS has a strong internal structure, with solid episodes periodically interrupted by weak ones.
Angel has a shaky internal structure-- sometimes drifting into baffling-- that is mostly mediocre episodes sometimes creeping up to strong.
It's not a terrible show, but I can't really recommend it whole-heartedly.
This saddens me. I put off watching Angel for years because I thought it was too silly, but these days I find I love it almost as much as Buffy. There are so many amazing moments, and the series finale is perfect. I also love how insane the plotlines get, because I think the writers and cast could pull off almost anything. There are stupid moments for sure, but they're very outweighed imo.
ledfloyd
12-26-2009, 01:09 AM
This saddens me. I put off watching Angel for years because I thought it was too silly, but these days I find I love it almost as much as Buffy. There are so many amazing moments, and the series finale is perfect. I also love how insane the plotlines get, because I think the writers and cast could pull off almost anything. There are stupid moments for sure, but they're very outweighed imo.
well, this plus summer glau, i'm in for sure.
This saddens me. I put off watching Angel for years because I thought it was too silly, but these days I find I love it almost as much as Buffy. There are so many amazing moments, and the series finale is perfect. I also love how insane the plotlines get, because I think the writers and cast could pull off almost anything. There are stupid moments for sure, but they're very outweighed imo.
I recently tried rewatching it and I had a really hard time... kinda gave up. I really love the characters, but I just can't handle most of the plotlines.
Most often ignored portions of vampire lore that are supposedly true in BtVS:
1. Vampires have no reflection. In fact, you can see thier reflections all the time, especially in water and windows. Sometimes, even in mirrors. The only time that you can't see a Vampire's reflection is when it's germane to the plot, and then someone always comments on it.
2. Vampires have no breath. This is mentioned repeatedly by the vampires in the show, but some of them (*cough*Angel*cough*) are always getting out of breath, or gasping for air, or sighing dramatically.
3. Vampires burn up in the daylight. Well, yes, minor vampires burn up the minute they get too close to a window. But our main character vampires are practically unscorchable. They stand near windows or under trees and are perfectly fine. If a piece of flesh is left in the sun, it might smoke a tiny bit, or maybe spark a tiny flame, but won't incinerate the vamp. They're fine driving around in cars in the daytime if the windows are tinted, and can walk around in the daylight with nothing more than a light blanket over the head.
Feel free to add your own.
Lucky
12-26-2009, 08:09 PM
They liberally abuse rule 3 during season 6 with spike. That's the only time the abuse of the vampire lore really bothered me enough to complain.
Doublemeat Palace is a terrible episode. It makes me want to take a shower, with extra scrubbing on the eye parts.
Kurosawa Fan
12-28-2009, 09:28 PM
Watched Homecoming. Fun episode overall. Interested to see what happens with Xander and Willow and their "relationships". Buffy and Cordelia head-to-head was good though, and Giles had two very good lines. He's quickly becoming one of my all-time favorite TV characters.
Watched Homecoming. Fun episode overall.
I always forget the name of this episode. I call it "Slayerfest '98."
He's quickly becoming one of my all-time favorite TV characters.
I love him madly.
You must watch the next episode RIGHT NOW. It's awesome, and he's awesome in it.
Kurosawa Fan
12-28-2009, 10:40 PM
I always forget the name of this episode. I call it "Slayerfest '98."
I love him madly.
You must watch the next episode RIGHT NOW. It's awesome, and he's awesome in it.
I'll watch it tonight after the kids go to bed, just for you.
I'll watch it tonight after the kids go to bed, just for you.
You're a good friend.
Kurosawa Fan
12-28-2009, 10:58 PM
You're a good friend.
I try.
No.
Cordelia has this long, beautiful, full hair that I would kill for, in a very rich color.
I don't like it cut, and I hate hate HATE it when they put in highlights.
Spoilered for the awfulness.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/angels2s8.jpg
Oh, and I want to weigh in on this. I think it's cute short and with highlights as in that pic, but by late season three (maybe you stopped watching) it truly does get hideous with this Kate Plus 8 cut:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2739/angel318522.jpg
Plus, she starts weirdly wearing bandannas and earth mothery clothing all the time. I know Charisma was actually pregnant on the show, but that wasn't until season 4, so what's her excuse?
Maybe they were trying to soften up her character? I dunno. Charisma has a look that works for her; she should stick with it.
I'll watch it tonight after the kids go to bed, just for you.
...get a chance?
Kurosawa Fan
12-30-2009, 11:34 AM
...get a chance?
Seems I'm not as good a friend as you thought. :sad:
Today though, for sure.
Seems I'm not as good a friend as you thought. :sad:
Yeah, like you don't have ANYTHING ELSE TO DO. :lol: I figured you got busy.
Have we posted our favorite moments from the score yet? No?
Sacrifice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bP6KI24YWM)
Suite from Hush (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7DwnWfDmKM&feature=related)
The Final Fight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqiiP6NJkh4)
EDIT: No spoilers, just music (for those who haven't finished the series) but DON'T READ THE COMMENTS. Or the summaries off to the right.
Still watching bits and pieces while at work in the background.
Anyway, "funny" isn't one the top five adjectives I'd use to describe season 7, but...
...Anya and Xander playing Good Cop, Bad Cop with a captive and whimpering Andrew is FREAKING HILARIOUS.
Kurosawa Fan
12-30-2009, 06:50 PM
Band Candy was amazing. Funniest episode yet. Holy crap Giles was badass.
Band Candy was amazing. Funniest episode yet. Holy crap Giles was badass.
:pritch:
It made it to 12 on my list, because it's so freaking funny. My write-up, if you're interested:
12. Band Candy (3.6)
Written by Jane Espenson, Directed by Michael Lange
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/bandcandy285.jpg
Buffy: Giles at sixteen? Less Together Guy, more Bad-Magic-Hates-The-World-Ticking-Time-Bomb Guy.
Summary: Buffy, Xander and Willow are all acting particularly immature. Buffy is lying to her Mom and Giles in order to sneak around with Angel, and blowing off her SAT prep. Xander and Willow are getting hormonal with each other behind their significant others' backs. But the tables are turned when the adults in Sunnydale end up eating candy that turns them into teenagers, and the actual teenagers need to pick up the slack.
Why I love it: First of all, it's really, really funny. Does that seem shallow? Then you probably shouldn't read the next reason.
Second of all, this is Giles' hottest episode. The man is always and forever a tasty morsel, which is why he's my husband, but this episode shoots it through the roof. We get to see rough-and-tumble Giles, with his street accent and his awesome taste in music. Joyce and Principal Snyder are also funny teenagers-- Joyce as a silly, boy-crazy ditz and Snyder as a pathetic hanger-on with the cooler kids.
It's fun to watch the focus of the show shift to the older generation, who are fascinating characters by themselves. (Wasn't there a rumored BBC spin-off called Ripper? I would watch that show.)
This episode also taps into one of my favorite running jokes: Buffy, with all her empowerment and Slayer reflexes, can't drive. She never gets a driver's license during the entire course of the series, and the few times she gets behind a wheel, havoc ensues.
And every time Giles-and-Joyce-on-the-cop-car gets brought up for the next four years, I giggle.
Interesting Tidbits:
Giles' "Ripper" accent is actually pretty close to Tony Head's real accent.
Apparently, young Giles smoked. This makes me sad. Not sad enough to break up with him, but still.
Kurosawa Fan
12-31-2009, 01:10 PM
Also watched Revelations and Lover's Walk.
Revelations was decent, nothing more. One thing I'm struggling with this season is Xander. I've found his one-liners less funny, and when he's in serious mode, he's often annoying. In this one he was downright intolerable. Why Buffy doesn't punch him in the mouth when he confrons her about Angel is beyond me. Aside from that, I really liked the Buffy/Faith fight. That whole scene was mass chaos. Very well done.
Lover's Walk was very good, one of the best of this season. I am seriously in love with Spike. It's one of the more unhealthy man-crushes I've ever had. His sit down with Joyce was freakin brilliant. The guy is just hilarious. He eclipses Giles as my favorite character in the series. I'm so glad he's around long-term. I was also surprisingly moved by the Xander/Cordy breakup. Much less so by Willow/Oz, as I don't find Oz to be very compelling. He's as bland as bland gets.
Lover's Walk was very good, one of the best of this season. I am seriously in love with Spike. It's one of the more unhealthy man-crushes I've ever had. His sit down with Joyce was freakin brilliant. The guy is just hilarious. He eclipses Giles as my favorite character in the series. I'm so glad he's around long-term. I was also surprisingly moved by the Xander/Cordy breakup. Much less so by Willow/Oz, as I don't find Oz to be very compelling. He's as bland as bland gets.
Fair warning-- that is the only episode this season with Spike.
I know. It's awful.
If it makes you feel better, he was supposed to die in the fire in season 2, but they kept him around longer because everyone loved him so much. Then, he was supposed to disappear forever after the season 2 finale, but they brought him back because everyone loved him so much. This pattern repeats for awhile until he comes back to stay.
Anyway, I really enjoy Lover's Walk. It made 22 on my list. It might have gotten higher, except there are a couple of... shall we say... thematically similar episodes later on that are done even better.
My write-up: (Let me know if these aren't intersting to you.)
22. Lover's Walk (3.8)
Written by Daniel Vebber, Directed by James Whitmore
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/LoversWalk286.jpg
Spike: I'm really glad I came here, you know? I've been all wrongheaded about this. Weeping, crawling, blaming everybody else. I want Dru back, I've just gotta be the man I was, the man she loved. I'm gonna do what I shoulda done in the first place: I'll find her, wherever she is, tie her up, torture her until she likes me again.
Summary: Spike makes an inebriated return to Sunnydale, distraught over losing Dru. He starts off blaming Spike, then Buffy, and finally kidnaps Willow in an effort to get a love spell to fix things.
Why I love it: Man, season 3 was great, wasn't it? Faith, the Mayor, [REDACTED FOR SPOILERS]-- all awesome. If I were to point out one major flaw with season three, it's that there isn't enough Spike.
And this episode rectifies that in a big way.
But this episode actually works on several levels. This quote:
Spike: I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it.
...serves at the impetus for several major storylines to play out. All three of our main (young) heroes are, at the moment, having their better judgment undermined by love/desire. They are all love's butt monkeys.
Angel and Buffy are trying to be "friends." Ha. Xander is still really into Cordelia, but he's sneaking off with Willow for smoochies. And Willow loves Oz-- really loves him-- but she can't seem to resist Xander, either. Spike recovers from his broken heart, but the repercussions of this episode spread out through the rest of the season.
From a storytelling perspective, Spike acts as a Lord of Misrule-- someone who is not contrained by normal modes of behavior and courtesy-- so that he can break down the conventions that are preventing the other characters from facing up to their own behavior and emotions. And it's awesome.
Interesting Tidbits:
Apparently, Charisma Carpenter actually did get a spike through her body, once, in the same spot. She fell off a horse when she was young.
[REMAINDER REDACTED FOR SPOILERS]
Kurosawa Fan
12-31-2009, 01:24 PM
Nope, I'm loving your write-ups. Keep them coming.
And you've just crushed my world knowing that I don't get any more Spike this season. What a terrible decision. Get rid of Angel and bring back Spike! Angel is the original Edward Cullen, and I'm sick of his moping!
Also, is it weird that I don't like Oz? My coworker found it odd. He doesn't add anything to the show. He basically lurks, and throws in the occasional one-liner, most of which I don't find particularly humorous. The werewolf angle I've complained about before. There's just nothing about that character that I find compelling.
Oh, and may I mention again how great Spike's chemistry is with Joyce? It's one of those things that shouldn't work, but does. Every scene with the two of them together is a favorite.
Marsters is just a really talented actor. (That's not his real accent, by the way-- he's freaking American.) And he just owns the hell out of that character. There are crazy people I don't understand who prefer Angel.
Psh.
Also, is it weird that I don't like Oz? My coworker found it odd. He doesn't add anything to the show. He basically lurks, and throws in the occasional one-liner, most of which I don't find particularly humorous. The werewolf angle I've complained about before. There's just nothing about that character that I find compelling.
Oh, I like Oz. He's unusual for being actually really cool (charming, socially competent, well-liked) while the rest of the scoobies tend to be outisders and loners. Really, though, the main draw of his character, for me, is how much he loves Willow. She's a great character, and it's painful when she isn't appreciated as a beautiful and sexually attractive woman. Loving Oz is a step in her own development, but somehow being loved by Oz is more significant. It gives her confidence and comfort.
And you know, right, that the Angel spin-off takes place at the end of this season? It's not really a spoiler, because the people watching the series when it was on television knew about the spin-off by this point. So he's not going to be lurking and moping around much longer.
Kurosawa Fan
12-31-2009, 01:33 PM
Oh, I like Oz. He's unusual for being actually really cool (charming, socially competent, well-liked) while the rest of the scoobies tend to be outisders and loners. Really, though, the main draw of his character, for me, is how much he loves Willow. She's a great character, and it's painful when she isn't appreciated as a beautiful and sexually attractive woman. Loving Oz is a step in her own development, but somehow being loved by Oz is more significant. It gives her confidence and comfort.
And you know, right, that the Angel spin-off takes place at the end of this season? It's not really a spoiler, because the people watching the series when it was on television knew about the spin-off by this point. So he's not going to be lurking and moping around much longer.
Yeah, I'll be glad to be rid of Angel. His whiny, shirtless act wore thin a while ago. I was disappointed by his reemergence this season, even though I knew it was coming.
When can I expect Spike to be a regular presence on the show? Please don't say it's after season four. I need my Spike fix!
Yeah, I'll be glad to be rid of Angel. His whiny, shirtless act wore thin a while ago. I was disappointed by his reemergence this season, even though I knew it was coming.
The shirtless routine is aggravated by the fact that he's waxed within an inch of his life, including his underarms, which I find unnerving. He looks like a huge, muscled fetus.
That aside, many people like the character of Angel better once he had his own show. He developed a bit of a sense of humor. But, in my opinion, he's not that much better. Cordelia also leaves for the spin-off, and one more character crosses over that you haven't met yet.
By the way, there are a number of plotline cross-overs between the two shows that only make sense if you watch both of them, but it's handled well enough that you won't miss much if you just watch BtVS. (Which I would recommend.)
When can I expect Spike to be a regular presence on the show? Please don't say it's after season four. I need my Spike fix!
He is a regular by season 4, and he's in the opening credits by season 5. Don't worry. There's plenty of Spike.
By the way, your next episode is also on my top 35. Then, a string of fairly-good episodes until #13, which is another top drawer entry.
Kurosawa Fan
01-02-2010, 08:43 PM
Watched The Wish, which was great, and have now moved on to Amends. One question: what the hell happened to Buffy's hair, and how long does it stay this way????
Kurosawa Fan
01-02-2010, 09:28 PM
Ew. Didn't like Amends at all. Corny to a level that was nearly gag-inducing. That final scene on the beach was like Whedon took dialogue from every melodramatic love story ever filmed and just mashed it together.
The Wish is very clever and surprisingly sad. It made my list, but my entry was nothing but spoilers, so I'll post it when you're further through. (It has... shall we say... a sister episode later on.)
Amends is bleh. It sets up some stuff that's important later on, but it's Angel Emo FM, All Angst, All the Time. Oh, and snow!
And I can't remember Buffy's hair, because I don't generally rewatch that episode. Let me see if I can find a picture...
AAAAAAHHHHHH FRINGE BANGS THEY BURN THEY BURN!
Which is too bad, because I looked damn cute back in my fringe bangs years.
I think they mostly pin them back for the rest of the episodes. I don't remember them staying for long.
Some chicka on 8's site just accused me of not watching BtVS all the way through because of my opinion of Buffy & Spike.
Assumed I hadn't seen season 7.
*splutters in indignation*
Glass Co.
01-07-2010, 06:50 PM
Watching through the series again. I know it's a popular opinion and has been stated many times, but season 1 is so fun and happy compared to pretty much everything after. I like it though. I feel like the show needed that little bit of fun before exploring darker territory.
Glass Co.
01-07-2010, 06:50 PM
Some chicka on 8's site just accused me of not watching BtVS all the way through because of my opinion of Buffy & Spike.
Assumed I hadn't seen season 7.
*splutters in indignation*
What problems did she have with your opinion?
Here is her response: (spoilers through season seven, obviously)
Regarding Buffy and Spike....I seriously doubt that you watched the entirety of BTVS. By S7, there was caring, trust, respect, tenderness and love. It was a REAL struggle and REAL love by the end and not some High School love. Whedon loves to heap pain on his characters and this was very true on BTVS but in the end, B/S ended at a very good and healthy place. I thought B/A was destructive. I mean, really, a 240 year old pedophile lusting after a 15 year sucking on a lollipop? Statutory rape? A moment of happiness releases the monster in the man? That was pretty disgusting.
If you haven't read my article entry, you should: http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/tv/6269-tv-couples-of-the-decade.html
Glass Co.
01-07-2010, 07:47 PM
First off, good article. I agreed with the choices that I knew.
Second, the two were most definitely bad for each other, which is of course the point.
Season 7 spoilers
Apparently Shanna forgot the moment in the series finale when even Spike knew that Buffy didn't love him. People need to stop talking on needlessly happy and uncomplicated endings in fiction when they aren't needed.
You're exactly right. Well put.
Also, it annoys me that she keeps insisting that they have "real" love. I never claimed that they didn't love each other. Spike does love Buffy very much, especially in season 7 when he gets all soul-having. And what Buffy feels for complex, but most certainly has affection mixed in. What I was arguing is that they're bad for each other. Love or not, they don't belong together.
Glass Co.
01-07-2010, 08:08 PM
Not sure I need to spoiler this, but whatever.
"Complex" is the key word. I can understand why you'd be upset because her explanation takes away a lot of what makes their relationship so engaging, which is the uncertain dynamic of what exactly they feel for each other.
Also, damn this show and its addictiveness. I planned to wait a little before starting season 2, but I think I'm popping it in shortly, to get my Spike fix at least.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/spike09.jpg
William the Bloody says hi.
I'm stuck in this self-blame cycle with KF and Buffy. I'm afraid his priorities have slipped because I told him there was no more Spike until season 4.
But... but... season 3 is still awesome! There are still some of my favorite episodes! In fact, he hasn't seen any of the episodes in my top ten, and two of them are in the remainder of this season.
Kurosawa Fan
01-08-2010, 08:37 PM
:lol:
Actually, I tried to watch Gingerbread today, only to have that episode not work on my computer. My sister said it pauses on her DVD player for some reason, but it won't play at all on my computer. I'm almost done downloading the episode.
The main reason for my delay is that I've been on a reading tear because I know when I start school on Tuesday, my free reading time will be cut down significantly. With all the reading I'll be doing for school, I'm afraid I won't want to pick up a book in my free time.
Oooh, I forgot you're starting school. Yeah, that's going to cut into your time quite a bit.
I go back and forth on "Gingerbread." There's stuff I really like, and it begins one of the funniest long-running jokes in the series, but other stuff... well, let's just say I'm curious to hear your response.
Kurosawa Fan
01-08-2010, 09:04 PM
Bunny. Heh.
Kurosawa Fan
01-08-2010, 09:41 PM
Yeah, I didn't dig that one. Had some funny moments, but the premise was subpar (and that's putting it kindly).
Yeah, I didn't dig that one. Had some funny moments, but the premise was subpar (and that's putting it kindly).
...right? I think the idea of Hansel and Gretel could have worked, but it was played really oddly, somewhere between campy and funny (the three witches being burned at the stake) and sort of disturbing (the dead children in the playground.) The whole literal witch-hunt thing was just... odd.
The best part of the episode was Cordelia slapping Giles awake. (That was this episode, right?)
The next is better, and the one after that is a top-35er.
ledfloyd
01-08-2010, 10:29 PM
i caught a bit of dopplegangland on tv last night. alyson hannigan is so great in that one.
i caught a bit of dopplegangland on tv last night. alyson hannigan is so great in that one.
It's in my top ten. I'm actually really excited for KF to get there.
I mean, Willow it great. Vampire Willow is great. But Willow pretending to be Vampire Willow? "I... couldn't let her live." And then Vampire Willow pretending to be Willow! "Because I'm.... shy."
:lol:
I'm literally laughing out loud thinking about it.
ledfloyd
01-09-2010, 02:10 AM
It's in my top ten. I'm actually really excited for KF to get there.
I mean, Willow it great. Vampire Willow is great. But Willow pretending to be Vampire Willow? "I... couldn't let her live." And then Vampire Willow pretending to be Willow! "Because I'm.... shy."
:lol:
I'm literally laughing out loud thinking about it.
haha yeah! that is definitely the highlight of the episode.
Lucky
01-12-2010, 01:50 AM
I like Amends, but I've always been a Buffy/Angel fan. I know you're not, KF, but the Angel episode "I Will Remember You" from the first season is essential viewing to get the whole story on their relationship.
Mara, what did you think of that episode? Did you hate that one as well? I think it's a nice bookend to their story.
Mara, what did you think of that episode? Did you hate that one as well? I think it's a nice bookend to their story.
I would safely call that one of my favorite Angel episodes. Very well done.
And I don't hate Buffy and Angel or anything, but I really get tired of the wah-wah-wah cry-cry-cry fight-fight-fight dynamic. The writers really got in a rut with them.
Oh, and completely by accident, while looking for pictures from a different show, google images took me to a Giles/Buffy shipper site with manipulated photos.
Now I'm going to have nightmares all night.
number8
01-18-2010, 06:16 PM
Maybe I should post this in the comic book thread, but the tussle between Whedon and Bill Willingham over Angel is kind of silly.
Maybe I should post this in the comic book thread, but the tussle between Whedon and Bill Willingham over Angel is kind of silly.
Hmm. Hadn't heard about it, googled it. WARNING to those who want to be surprised by the outcome of BtVS Season 8, if you're going to google.
The non-spoilery version has to do with correlating what's going on in Buffyverse with what is going on with the Angel comic series, which is with a different company.
I'm not sure how I feel about it. (Although I'm sort of motivated to read more of the comics now, because they're pulling out some big guns.)
Really, though, this has been a problem since BtVS was sold over to a different network in season 6 and Angel stayed on Fox. All of the sudden character cross-overs had to be negotiated like freaking peace treaties. They couldn't even say the names of major characters on the other show half the time.
"Oh, you're just sulking because you're still in love with B--"
"DON'T TALK ABOUT HER."
Let's just acknowledge the Buffy and Angel took different paths and leave it at that.
I just ordered volumes 2-5 on Amazon. Dammit, 8.
number8
01-18-2010, 10:46 PM
Leave me out of this.
UPDATE: Buffy Season 8 is both amazing and completely insane. Further information once I catch up.
Lucky
01-27-2010, 11:12 PM
Mara, I happened to be on imdb.com today looking up something on Buffy and I noticed your article on TV Musical Eps is the top link on the news feed on the Buffy page. Congrats!
Mara, I happened to be on imdb.com today looking up something on Buffy and I noticed your article on TV Musical Eps is the top link on the news feed on the Buffy page. Congrats!
Holy schneikes. That's the coolest thing ever.
Should I pretend that I won't take a screenshot of that? Naw, wouldn't fool anyone.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/irock.jpg
And some quick searching shows that it showed up in the newsfeed for ALL THE SHOWS. Of course, I only care about Buffy. But still. That's cool.
And good for the site, right? Because it will bring in fans from lots of different shows who may not have been before.
Why am I talking about the season 8 comics in the BSG thread? It just happened.
Anyway, I'm caught up through volume 5, and it is INSANE. But awesome. But insane. To give you an idea: at one point, a main character, who has been turned into a giant, gets into a throwdown in downtown Tokyo with a giant mecha version of herself that is identical, except it has a tail.
Think. About. That.
I mean, it's classic Buffy in many ways. It's serious and wrenching, and Buffy's personal journey continues to be sixth-and-seventh-season dark. The dialogue is amazing and the artwork is usually quite good. (For some reason, they can't draw Faith. She looks awful.)
But then they have the cheerful, awesome episodes that break up all the darkness. They're really genuinely fun, and some of the jokes have had me laughing out loud.
At the same time, the plotting goes kinda crazy. There are no budget restrictions here-- anything and everything the writers can dream up, they can do. And they wanna do some insane crap. Also, they can bring back any and every character they want. (And they bring back MANY MANY PEOPLE.) They contribute to the meta-story in very intriguing ways.
Overall, I think I have to recommend it for fans. I have a couple of reservations, but the season has turned out far better than I expected after just reading the first entry.
Oh, and season 8 takes place about 3-4 years after season 7 ended. In case you're curious.
hey it's ethan
02-24-2010, 11:44 PM
Just finished Season Six. I felt like a lot of the season was filler but the last six episodes or so were extremely strong. A little sad that I only have one season left.
Also...
I could not believe how upset I was when Xander left Anya at the altar in "Hell's Bells". I seriously felt depressed for like the entire day.
I had very mixed feelings about season six the first time I saw it. It was so, so bleak. But after watching the series the whole way through, I gained more appreciation for it. I felt like I understood where it wanted to go.
Regarding your spoiler:
I love Xander. I really, really love him. But I will never forgive him for leaving Anya at the altar.
Lucky
04-14-2010, 04:17 AM
I just noticed last night that this entire series was added to netlix instant watch for all of you who have never given the show a try. Now's the perfect time.
I just noticed last night that this entire series was added to netlix instant watch for all of you who have never given the show a try. Now's the perfect time.
:pritch:
Oh, I mean, for other people who haven't seen it yet. Not me. That would be lame.
:pritch:
Lucky
04-18-2010, 06:01 PM
Just rewatched "Selfless" and couldn't help but reappreciate Anya's musical number they threw in there. If Glee had more moments of genuine emotion like this, I would appreciate the show a lot more. And then the cold cut that follows hits like a brick. Well done.
Just rewatched "Selfless" and couldn't help but reappreciate Anya's musical number they threw in there. If Glee had more moments of genuine emotion like this, I would appreciate the show a lot more. And then the cold cut that follows hits like a brick. Well done.
I think I underestimated this episode the first time I watched it, because it has seemed to improve on rewatches. My main reaction the first time was basically "flinching." It's so painful and awful and rock-bottom.
But it's imperative to Anya's development as a character. Her musical number is awesome, and would be too perky and fun if it wasn't for that cold cut, which is a punch in the face.
ledfloyd
04-18-2010, 09:05 PM
i'm in the midst of watching twin peaks, but i'm almost done with that. when i am, i think i'm going to go back through buffy via instant watch.
:pritch:
ledfloyd
04-21-2010, 10:00 AM
i kind of forgot just how much i love this show.
Oooh, Mayor Wilkins was reunited with Alyson Hannigan on How I Met Your Mother on Monday. They've had Alexis Denisoff on that show, too.
I also find Xander's Christmas tradition so very sad and touching and wonderful.
This was actually just about the only part of that episode that really rang true for me. When I watch it, I understand what I am expected to feel, but I never really buy into it.
It doesn't help that I am completely sick of Buffy and Angel by season 3. Angel's search for redemption is far better handled once he gets his own show.
ledfloyd
04-22-2010, 03:59 PM
i started watching season 6. because with the exception of once more with feeling i haven't seen anything from 6 or 7 since it aired. the last time i rewatched the show i stopped at season 5 for some arbitrary reason. anyhow, i'm through 7 episodes and i really don't see why people think there's a huge drop off between season 5 and 6. yes, season 5 is probably the best season of the show, but 6 is still really really good.
I think there's no arguing that seasons 6 & 7 are tonally very different from the rest of the show. But "worse" is debatable.
ledfloyd
04-22-2010, 07:21 PM
I think there's no arguing that seasons 6 & 7 are tonally very different from the rest of the show. But "worse" is debatable.
it's only natural though, as the majority of the characters are done being students and entering the real world. so it gets a bit more dramatic, but the stuff with willow and then buffy trying to cope with things. it's good stuff.
Glass Co.
04-22-2010, 09:11 PM
My only problem with season 6 was Willow's addiction to magic becoming way too on-the-nose and obvious. Aside from that it gets shat on way too much.
ledfloyd
04-24-2010, 07:54 AM
i didn't get the nick and nora fury reference the first time i saw as you were :lol: kind of a bland episode, but that cracked me up.
ledfloyd
04-27-2010, 11:38 PM
what're you gigglin at?
what're you gigglin at?
I'm being Faith at the moment.
Lucky
04-28-2010, 04:53 AM
What happened to k-fan who ditched us midseason 3?
What happened to k-fan who ditched us midseason 3?
I think he's busy because he started school while still working full time. Plus, he has kids. Or something.
I'm waiting until summer to guilt-trip him. :lol:
Kurosawa Fan
04-28-2010, 01:18 PM
What happened to k-fan who ditched us midseason 3?
I'm still going to finish. But yeah, Mara is correct. I've been way too busy since February. I have two months off in July and August, so in that period I will at the very least finish season three and try to make it through season four as well. We'll see.
BTW, Lucky, a few people are trying Buffy for the first time over at Icine. If you need a fix.
I'm still going to finish. But yeah, Mara is correct. I've been way too busy since February. I have two months off in July and August, so in that period I will at the very least finish season three and try to make it through season four as well. We'll see.
Why is it so fun to observe someone watching/reading/hearing something we love for the first time? I get all happy when someone reads a book I love, or watching a favorite film of mine. It kind of helps you relive that excitement of not knowing what is coming next.
It's a total emotional bonding thing, too.
Okay, it's a tangent. But.
My sister's nieces by marriage, who I've become quite close to, are at really fun ages for reading: 8, 11, and 13. I'm figuring out that if I loan them books, they not only read them, but love them and will gush about them with me.
This has become an obsession of mine. I keep trying to find new books for them to read and it makes me all happy. I'd kind of forgotten that the same thing happened when my sisters were about that age.
ledfloyd
05-08-2010, 02:19 AM
i'm reading season 8 right now. digging it, the issue i just read was a callback to storyteller. which is, y'know, pretty awesome.
ledfloyd
05-08-2010, 03:38 AM
I'm still irked that I found out Twilight's identity. I wish I hadn't stumbled across that. I always intended to read season eight, but that spoiler depleted a good chunk of my motivation.
it's not edward cullen is it?
I'm still irked that I found out Twilight's identity. I wish I hadn't stumbled across that. I always intended to read season eight, but that spoiler depleted a good chunk of my motivation.
I found out by accident, too. I'm reserved judgment until I see how they did it. (I mean, would you have EVER guessed the ultimate villian of season 6?) But I am extremely skeptical.
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