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Dead & Messed Up
07-25-2010, 03:48 AM
Oh, wow, is this your first time?
:pritch:
I get really excited when people watch it for the first time.
Obligatory disclaimer: the first season is really shaky. It takes awhile for the show to find its feet. But once you get to the second season, there's a marked improvement in quality.
Thanks for the heads-up. I've heard this comment about the show before, so I'm going to give it a go. Willow's my favorite right now. A little surprised by how attractive David Boreanaz was back then. I'm not saying I'd go gay with him, but if he roofied me, I wouldn't be too bummed out.
spike!
Yes, THIS.
To get the first note out of the way: I LOVE Harmony as an addition to the cast. They need that kind of light-hearted doofiness to offset the seriousness of the other characters.
But, Spike. I just have so many problems with it.
First, I don't buy any of the offered explanations for his resurrection. They feel weak. The writers wanted to bring him back, but they didn't spend very long thinking about why.
Second, I don't particularly like the way they write the character in Angel. It's not bad, exactly, but Spike had a very beautiful and careful arc developed in BtVS, and by the end of the show he was more reflective, mature, and loyal. In Angel they go back to writing him as a mischievous child, there to tormet and off-set Angel. He's a sidekick. Admittedly, he's a fun sidekick, and his chemistry with Angel is great, but it's not who he is.
Which brings me to my next point: After Buffy Season 7, there is absolutely nothing in the world that would have kept Spike from returning to Buffy. He would gnaw off his own arm to be with her. Obviously, the writers need to keep him on Angel, because that's the show still on the air, so they keep writing reason after reason why he doesn't go to her. And I don't buy a second of it.
And my final note, not really Spike-specific: Angel hasn't really discussed Buffy, or apparently thought about her, for years. He's pretty much moved on. But in this season, they try to make it look like he's been secretly pining over her. Why? Because Spike is, and they like the interaction. BAH.
Okay, rants out of the way. There's a lot to like in Season 5, I just have a problem with this particular issue.
Lucky
07-25-2010, 05:44 PM
KF starts Season 5 and then splits. What a tease.
KF starts Season 5 and then splits. What a tease.
I think he's entangled with Doctor Who right now... which is a nice place to be entangled.
ledfloyd
07-26-2010, 03:48 AM
Yes, THIS.
To get the first note out of the way: I LOVE Harmony as an addition to the cast. They need that kind of light-hearted doofiness to offset the seriousness of the other characters.
But, Spike. I just have so many problems with it.
First, I don't buy any of the offered explanations for his resurrection. They feel weak. The writers wanted to bring him back, but they didn't spend very long thinking about why.
Second, I don't particularly like the way they write the character in Angel. It's not bad, exactly, but Spike had a very beautiful and careful arc developed in BtVS, and by the end of the show he was more reflective, mature, and loyal. In Angel they go back to writing him as a mischievous child, there to tormet and off-set Angel. He's a sidekick. Admittedly, he's a fun sidekick, and his chemistry with Angel is great, but it's not who he is.
Which brings me to my next point: After Buffy Season 7, there is absolutely nothing in the world that would have kept Spike from returning to Buffy. He would gnaw off his own arm to be with her. Obviously, the writers need to keep him on Angel, because that's the show still on the air, so they keep writing reason after reason why he doesn't go to her. And I don't buy a second of it.
And my final note, not really Spike-specific: Angel hasn't really discussed Buffy, or apparently thought about her, for years. He's pretty much moved on. But in this season, they try to make it look like he's been secretly pining over her. Why? Because Spike is, and they like the interaction. BAH.
Okay, rants out of the way. There's a lot to like in Season 5, I just have a problem with this particular issue.
i'm only a few episodes in. but so far i don't agree. i'm loving his presence on the show. and if there are a few kinks in the reasoning for him being there, i'm not going to complain.
ledfloyd
07-30-2010, 05:11 AM
so:
i just finished episode 8 and i think with the shanshu prophecy having spike on the show makes perfect sense. i also don't mind his behavior. he's immaterial, he was brought out of death to some kind of half-life, he can't go see buffy. i think he'd be acting bratty. though that seems to be changing. the whole season is setting up really nicely and i can't wait to see what they do with it.
so:
i just finished episode 8 and i think with the shanshu prophecy having spike on the show makes perfect sense. i also don't mind his behavior. he's immaterial, he was brought out of death to some kind of half-life, he can't go see buffy. i think he'd be acting bratty. though that seems to be changing. the whole season is setting up really nicely and i can't wait to see what they do with it.
If I had never seen BtVS, I would have loved Spike on Angel. I think the former just set my expectations of the character too high. I do think that he's quite funny, and his interactions with Angel are always awesome.
Your next episode is one of my favorites from this season.
Mysterious Dude
08-02-2010, 05:34 AM
I just watched "Once More With Feeling" on Netflix. I want to watch it again.
ledfloyd
08-02-2010, 06:41 AM
i think smile time is probably the hardest i've laughed at anything whedon has done. among the funniest television episodes i've ever seen as well.
Dead & Messed Up
08-02-2010, 07:01 AM
Wow. I can't believe it took me seven episodes to realize that Darla the Vampire is Rita from Dexter. I feel pretty embarrassed.
Xander's starting to piss me off. We get it, you like Buffy. Now get the hint and move on to Willow. Willow is clearly a safer bet, and a smarter bet, and a sexier bet.
On that note, FCC Okays Nudity As Long As It's Alyson Hannigan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmmAdbDF1xA).
Show's okay.
i think smile time is probably the hardest i've laughed at anything whedon has done. among the funniest television episodes i've ever seen as well.
YES.
That episode is just.... wow.
Better enjoy those giggles, because the rest of the season is dark, dark, dark. In fact, the next episode is kind of like being punched in the face. By a truck.
Xander's starting to piss me off. We get it, you like Buffy. Now get the hint and move on to Willow. Willow is clearly a safer bet, and a smarter bet, and a sexier bet.
Xander is much more likeable once he gets over this particular crush.
Show's okay.
Yeah, season 1 is pretty lame. You have to wait it out.
I just watched "Once More With Feeling" on Netflix. I want to watch it again.
I might have the soundtrack on my iPod. Maybe.
ledfloyd
08-03-2010, 02:09 PM
Better enjoy those giggles, because the rest of the season is dark, dark, dark. In fact, the next episode is kind of like being punched in the face. By a truck.
fuck...
fuck...
Did you watch "A Hole in the World"?
There's a hole in the world. Feels like we ought to have known.
ledfloyd
08-03-2010, 02:19 PM
Did you watch "A Hole in the World"?
i did. :cry: :cry: :cry:
i did. :cry: :cry: :cry:
It's beautifully written. There are some stunning moments. And parts of it are even funny (cavemen vs. astronauts.)
But none of that changes the fact that JOSS WHEDON IS A TOTAL BASTARD THAT LIKES TO MAKE US SUFFER.
Fred: My boys. I walk with heroes. Think about that.
Wesley: You are one.
Fred: Superhero. And this is my power: to not let them take me. Not me.
Wesley: You don't have to say it.
Angel: I'll say it anyway: Winifred Burkle. Go.
Lawyer: I'm sorry to interrupt. I just need to know if the Holbein Clan history was here. It was supposed to be faxed to my office.
Wesley: It can wait.
Lawyer: These guys are really important. I just need... I mean, the whole company can't be working Miss Burkle's case.
Wesley Wyndam-Pryce: Of course.
[nonchalantly pulls a gun out of his desk and shoots the lawyer in the knee]
Wesley: [to his secretary] Jennifer, please send anyone else who isn't working Miss Burkle's case to me
Lorne: Winifred Burkle once told me after a sinful amount of Chinese food, and in lieu of absolutely nothing, "I think a lot of people would choose to be green. Your shade, if they had the choice." If I hear one note —- one quarter-note —- that tells me you had any involvement, these two won't even have time to kill you.
Fred: I'm not scared. I'm not scared. I'm not scared. Please, Wesley. Why can't I stay?
:cry:
ledfloyd
08-03-2010, 05:17 PM
:cry:
There were major character deaths on BtVS that affected me more, but nobody on that show suffered as much. They all died suddenly with very little pain.
What kills me about watching "A Hole in the World" is how long it takes, and to watch her screaming in pain is just unbearable.
ledfloyd
08-03-2010, 09:32 PM
There were major character deaths on BtVS that affected me more, but nobody on that show suffered as much. They all died suddenly with very little pain.
What kills me about watching "A Hole in the World" is how long it takes, and to watch her screaming in pain is just unbearable.
agreed. it doesn't help that she was my favorite character on the show.
agreed. it doesn't help that she was my favorite character on the show.
Mine too.
Overly loveable characters do not have long lifespans on Joss' shows.
Also, happy couples don't stay together very long.
Unhappy couples can stay together for years.
Lucky
08-04-2010, 03:06 AM
the sexiest scene whedon has ever done.
it's odd though cause it's really funny too. like when cordy says that line part of me is thinking *drool* and part of me is thinking 'i need to be angel right now' but at the same time i'm chuckling.
I actually watched this episode of Angel tonight because I was *ahem* intrigued by what you guys were saying. And like nearly every episode of Angel I've watched...
...I was disappointed.
I just can't get into this show. This was even a Joss penned episode and I thought the dialogue was pretty amateur at times. Reminded me of first season Buffy wit. Actually, this storyline heavily borrowed from an episode of Buffy's second season. Angel was even involved in the spirit possession of that episode as well, except it exuded more pathos and relevance on Buffy than the sequence here. Sexy? Kind of...except the mood doesn't ring true and keeps getting interrupted. The delicate ambience of a sex scene in squelched when you interrupt it and try to be funny. Nearly every sex scene on Buffy is steamier than that.
As for Angel, the standout eps that I've seen are:
I Will Remember You
Eternity
Five by Five
Are You Now or Have You Ever Been
Darla
Disharmony
I actually watched this episode of Angel tonight because I was *ahem* intrigued by what you guys were saying. And like nearly every episode of Angel I've watched...
...I was disappointed.
All this discussion and rewatching of Angel with ledfloyd has turned me around a little bit. I still think that it's nowhere near BtVS in overall quality, but there were some really great individual moments and (as always with Whedon) some excellent, sympathetic, well-defined characters. I certainly thought more of season 5 this time through.
I said it a couple of pages ago, but if you just want to see the best Angel episode, out of context, watch "Smile Time." You will, at least, laugh your butt off. It's 5.14.
ledfloyd
08-04-2010, 10:48 AM
All this discussion and rewatching of Angel with ledfloyd has turned me around a little bit. I still think that it's nowhere near BtVS in overall quality, but there were some really great individual moments and (as always with Whedon) some excellent, sympathetic, well-defined characters. I certainly thought more of season 5 this time through.
i think buffy's finest moments might outshine the best of angel, but angel seems more consistent to me. aside from cordy in season 4 and parts of the connor arc there's not a whole lot i can find to complain about. seems like buffy had a lot more groanworthy episodes.
i think season 2 of angel is better than most seasons of buffy (better than 1, 4, 6 & 7 anyway) and season 5 is shaping up to be even better. season 1 never really found it's footing and 3 and 4 had a few spotty plotlines, but some really really strong stuff as well (wes mostly, but also the faith and angelus stuff).
i'm really loving it. having only 6 episodes left is kind of bittersweet.
Dead & Messed Up
08-05-2010, 01:05 AM
Done with Season 1 of Buffy. Good finish. Managed to wrangle some real acting from Gellar and Brendon and, as usual, Anthony Stewart Head. I love that guy. The season reminded me of the gestation seasons necessary to The Office and Parks and Recreation, as the show figured out its formula and embellished characters that were more interesting than initially suspected (Boreanaz and Carpenter).
My favorite episodes were "Teacher's Pet," "The Puppet Show," and "Prophecy Girl." The former two were simple, strong executions of the show's formula, and the latter offers fun apocalyptic sights and more tenable emotion.
I'll probably start Season 2 soon.
ledfloyd
08-05-2010, 04:11 AM
i think 'angel' and 'prophecy girl' are the highlights of season 1. 'teacher's pet' is actually my least favorite. 'prophecy girl' in some ways feels like the beginning of the show to me. by the end of season 2 you should be hooked.
Dead & Messed Up
08-06-2010, 12:16 AM
i think 'angel' and 'prophecy girl' are the highlights of season 1. 'teacher's pet' is actually my least favorite. 'prophecy girl' in some ways feels like the beginning of the show to me. by the end of season 2 you should be hooked.
"Teacher's Pet" tapped into a lot of personal fantasies. Except for the mantis part.
Lucky
08-06-2010, 12:51 AM
Done with Season 1 of Buffy. Good finish. Managed to wrangle some real acting from Gellar and Brendon and, as usual, Anthony Stewart Head. I love that guy. The season reminded me of the gestation seasons necessary to The Office and Parks and Recreation, as the show figured out its formula and embellished characters that were more interesting than initially suspected (Boreanaz and Carpenter).
My favorite episodes were "Teacher's Pet," "The Puppet Show," and "Prophecy Girl." The former two were simple, strong executions of the show's formula, and the latter offers fun apocalyptic sights and more tenable emotion.
I'll probably start Season 2 soon.
If you can enjoy the first season i have good faith you will become a fan of the show
ledfloyd
08-06-2010, 03:28 AM
well, that's one way to end a show. :pritch:
well, that's one way to end a show. :pritch:
For the most part, I thought the ending seemed rushed, but there were some parts that were amazing:
*Wesley and Illyria/Fred
*Lorne's heartbreak at being asked for this one last favor
*That final two minutes... holy crap.
ledfloyd
08-07-2010, 01:30 AM
For the most part, I thought the ending seemed rushed, but there were some parts that were amazing:
*Wesley and Illyria/Fred
*Lorne's heartbreak at being asked for this one last favor
*That final two minutes... holy crap.
it did seem a bit rushed. but then it was rushed, with the cancellation and all. i still think the final two episodes as a piece are fantastic (and better than chosen)
in regards to your first bullet point, i cried...
It seems like I enjoy "Chosen" more than most. I thought it was pitch perfect.
in regards to your first bullet point, i cried...
Yeah... me too.
Lucky
08-07-2010, 02:32 PM
It seems like I enjoy "Chosen" more than most. I thought it was pitch perfect.
I was satisfied by the final episode. The only disappointments I had were my own predictions and anticipations not coming true.
Dead & Messed Up
08-10-2010, 08:50 PM
I posted more extensive thoughts for Season One on my blog (http://horrorfilms101.blogspot.com/). Hopefully it's not too stuffy.
In addition to the welcome humor, the monsters cleverly reflect the anxieties of their heroes. While a show like The X-Files offered compelling heroes, Mulder and Scully mostly came to blows for ideological reasons instead of personal ones. Mulder ran in pursuit of the unknown, while Scully chastised him for ignoring the scientific process. The beasts rarely affected Mulder and Scully past the threat of physical violence.
Compare that to an episode from Buffy, “The Pack.” While the episode is unusually cruel (hyena-possessed teens devour the school principal), the idea of outcast Xander joining a new clique, and alienating his friends, plays into not just general teenage anxieties, but Xander as a character. Xander experiences popularity outside his group of misfits, with the caveat that he has to betray his compassion. The “monster” becomes a way to study the protagonists.
Lucky
08-11-2010, 02:35 AM
Great review on Season 1 DaMU, truly. Probably the best one I've read on the first season -- no one usually bothers to analyze it much.
Can't wait to read your thoughts as you continue with the series and it starts to merit your analysis.
Lucky
08-11-2010, 02:38 AM
And have we lost KF for good? Seriously, did you have to take a hiatus at Season FIVE?! Couldn't you have waited 21 episodes later?
Kurosawa Fan
08-11-2010, 02:49 AM
And have we lost KF for good? Seriously, did you have to take a hiatus at Season FIVE?! Couldn't you have waited 21 episodes later?
Sorry man, I'm trying to squeeze in as many books as I can before the fall semester. I can watch an episode here or there when school starts, but it's really difficult for me to read anything with all the stuff I have to read for my classes.
Lucky
08-11-2010, 02:56 AM
Sorry man, I'm trying to squeeze in as many books as I can before the fall semester. I can watch an episode here or there when school starts, but it's really difficult for me to read anything with all the stuff I have to read for my classes.
Understandable. I'm actually going back to school and taking a class starting up here in two weeks and anticipate much less free time myself. Hoping I can balance the class and work while still somewhat maintaining a social life.
Dead & Messed Up
08-11-2010, 03:07 AM
Great review on Season 1 DaMU, truly. Probably the best one I've read on the first season -- no one usually bothers to analyze it much.
Thank you very much! I did enjoy the season, and the first couple episodes from Season Two have me wanting more. Of course, I'm also trying to get through four other shows right now, so it may take a little time to finish numero dos.
I posted more extensive thoughts for Season One on my blog (http://horrorfilms101.blogspot.com/). Hopefully it's not too stuffy.
Excellent write-up. I suspect you're going to be over the moon when the show starts subverting convention and becomes an entirely new animal. AVOID SPOILERS.
Also, you have a movie star name. Seriously. I can see it on a marquee.
Thank you very much! I did enjoy the season, and the first couple episodes from Season Two have me wanting more. Of course, I'm also trying to get through four other shows right now, so it may take a little time to finish numero dos.
Have you gotten to "School Hard" yet?
Dead & Messed Up
08-11-2010, 04:16 PM
Have you gotten to "School Hard" yet?
I just watched it last night.
Spike is amazing. I laughed out loud when he
tossed the Anointed into the cage and yanked it up into the sunlight.
What a way to wipe the slate clean.
I just watched it last night.
Spike is amazing. I laughed out loud when he
tossed the Anointed into the cage and yanked it up into the sunlight.
What a way to wipe the slate clean.
He is a fantastic character, and has one of my favorite entrance scenes ever ("WELCOME TO SUNNYDALE.")
I have a vague, hollow feeling inside, like nobody wants to talk about Buffy.
Kurosawa Fan
08-27-2010, 02:16 PM
I do! I'm seven episodes through season five, and I'm confident that this will be the best season yet. There hasn't been a single episode that wasn't good, if not great. And I love the moral dilemma presented by Buffy's sister. Increased rolls for Spike, Anya, and Giles (who faded a bit in season four) are also reasons for celebration. Now all I'm waiting for is the inevitable departure of Riley and I'll be all set.
I do! I'm seven episodes through season five, and I'm confident that this will be the best season yet. There hasn't been a single episode that wasn't good, if not great. And I love the moral dilemma presented by Buffy's sister. Increased rolls for Spike, Anya, and Giles (who faded a bit in season four) are also reasons for celebration. Now all I'm waiting for is the inevitable departure of Riley and I'll be all set.
Woohoo! Yeah, I love that Giles gets the Magic Box. Season 4 was the season when he had jack-all to do. Plus, he starts wearing really sharp suits.
Riley is a ticking clock. Don't worry.
Episode 7, Fool for Love, made my list.
15. Fool for Love (5.7)
Written by Douglas Petrie, Directed by Nick Marck
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/FFL_457.jpg
SPIKE: Every day you wake up, it's the same bloody question that haunts you: is today the day I die? Death is on your heels, baby, and sooner or later it's gonna catch you. And part of you wants it... not only to stop the fear and uncertainty, but because you're just a little bit in love with it. Death is your art. You make it with your hands, day after day. That final gasp. That look of peace. Part of you is desperate to know: What's it like? Where does it lead you? And now you see, that's the secret. Not the punch you didn't throw or the kicks you didn't land. Every Slayer... has a death wish. Even you. The only reason you've lasted as long as you have is you've got ties to the world... your mum, your brat kid sister, the Scoobies. They all tie you here but you're just putting off the inevitable. Sooner or later, you're gonna want it. And the second- the second- that happens... You know I'll be there. I'll slip in... have myself a real good day.
Summary: After Buffy is wounded in what should have been an easy fight, she becomes obsessed with finding out how previous slayers died. She goes to Spike, who tells her the stories of the two slayers he's killed.
Why I love it: This, I think, will not be a controversial choice at all. Anyone who doesn't like this episode probably goes around punching kittens. It's interesting, it's cool, and it contains a fantastic cross-cut scene where Spike is killing a slayer in the subway while having a conversation with Buffy. It's also the perfect illustration of the love/hate/fascination relationship between Buffy and Spike, and the sex-and-death confusion that they both seem to have.
Oh, and Spike is always physically attractive, but he is particularly hot in this episode, especially during the "present" scenes and the "subway" scene (when he's channeling Billy Idol, but in a good way.)
The bulk of the episode is just a conversation between Buffy and Spike, which plays out like a power struggle and seduction and manipulation and confession all at once.
In fact, I like this episode so much that you might wonder why I didn't rank it higher. Let me explain. The fact is, I don't like the flashbacks where we see Spike as William the Whiny Pansy. [EDITED FOR SPOILERS] I understand that they're trying to deepen our understanding of who Spike is, but it just doesn't work for me. I don't see him as vulnerable or interesting when they do that, I just see bad wigs and dull plotlines. What makes Spike vulnerable and interesting is when his facade cracks, like the moment at the end of this episode when Buffy pushes him down and throws money at him, and he's left half-weeping and gathering it up: because even when he's being treated like a whore, he needs the money. Her repeating the same line that Cecily used to rebuke him: "You're beneath me"-- beautifully played.
A quick note on a nice moment that often gets forgotten in all the Buffy-and-Spike-a-thon: I like when Giles and Buffy speak at cross-purposes regarding the deaths of slayers.
BUFFY: Why didn't the Watchers keep fuller accounts of it? The journals just stop.
GILES: Well, I suppose if they're anything like me, they just find the whole subject too-
BUFFY: Unseemly? Damn. Love ya but you Watchers are such prigs sometimes.
GILES: Painful... I was going to say.
Interesting Tidbits:
In this episode, we find out that two of Spike's physical trademarks were obtained from his fights with slayers: the scar above his eye from the first one, and his black leather coat from the second.
And "Family" didn't make my list, but there are parts of it I really like. Some of it feels too forced-- this is the episode where we accept Tara!-- but some of it flows quite naturally. Also, Amy Adams. Weird, huh?
Even though it's hokey, I really go for the last scene where they stand up for Tara as a united front. Tara is one of the naturally sweetest characters on BtVS. She is the least likely to fight, and you almost never see her even defending herself. She is the peaceful eye of the storm, especially in relation to Willow, who is becoming more and more volatile.
And I love this exchange:
Giles: In fact if you want Tara, you have to go through every one of us.
Spike: [Holds up hand] Except me.
Xander: Except Spike.
Spike: I don't care what happens.
Kurosawa Fan
08-27-2010, 02:37 PM
That was one of my favorite Spike moments.
I gotta say, at this point I don't much care for the woman baddie, whatever she is. The whiny diva attitude is grating. She's like a female version of the Mayor. I kind of like my baddies to be more traditionally dark and menacing. She's been the sole drawback (Riley notwithstanding) of the season and where it's headed.
I gotta say, at this point I don't much care for the woman baddie, whatever she is. The whiny diva attitude is grating. She's like a female version of the Mayor. I kind of like my baddies to be more traditionally dark and menacing. She's been the sole drawback (Riley notwithstanding) of the season and where it's headed.
Glory. I'm okay with her. She's not my favorite baddie, but she's fine. (Someone mentions at some point that she's kind of like an evil Cordelia.) There are aspects of her that haven't been revealed yet that make her a little more interesting and tricky.
If you like your baddies to be more traditionally dark and menacing, I'm verrrry curious what you'll think of next season.
Partially in season 5, and certainly in the next two seasons we see the focus taken off external conflicts and much more focus on the internal. Sort of a "your enemy is not your enemy; your true enemy is yourself" philosophy.
Kurosawa Fan
08-27-2010, 03:32 PM
I have a question: why don't they ever show Willow and Tara kiss? Seems really odd and deliberate. Why are they avoiding such an innocent thing? It's obvious they've kissed before, but anytime it's seemed appropriate, they've faded out or cut away. Was there a reason for this?
I have a question: why don't they ever show Willow and Tara kiss? Seems really odd and deliberate. Why are they avoiding such an innocent thing? It's obvious they've kissed before, but anytime it's seemed appropriate, they've faded out or cut away. Was there a reason for this?
Oh, yes, there is.
The WB was extremely nervous at the time about having an on-air lesbian couple. (At that time, it was still extremely rare.) They put restrictions on the amount of affection that could be shown between the two of them, so most of what we see is either cuddling or metaphorical. (Think in season 4 "Restless" when in her dream-scape, Willow keeps pushing through the red curtains to find Tara.)
During the five seasons the show was on the WB, there is almost no lesbian PDA. Almost. You will see Tara and Willow kiss this season, and the scene is actually very moving and powerful.
However, after season 5 the show moved over to UPN, which was much more willing to show same-sex interaction, including kissing and implied sex.
I've seen a lot of speculation about when Tara and Willow actually "did it" for the first time. Personally, I think it was just before Oz came back in season 4.
However, after season 5 the show moved over to UPN, which was much more willing to show same-sex interaction, including kissing and implied sex.
Actually, they are less uptight about straight sex, too. The threshold of what is shown and implied moves over significantly.
Kurosawa Fan
08-27-2010, 03:45 PM
Ah. That makes more sense.
So, without spoiling me, I'd love it if you could guarantee that Anya never leaves the show. I'm not sure I want to watch a Buffy without Anya. I'm developing an unhealthy obsession with her character.
Also, I watched Shadows. Again, dislike Glory quite a bit, and the effects when Buffy was trying to kill the snake were hilarious. Still, another solid episode, though it was the weakest of the season thus far. REALLY sick of Riley at this point, and his lame "dark side" that's emerging. Can't wait for him to go.
It's a snake puppet! STRANGLE IT NOW!
:lol:
If you click this spoiler, I will tell you how many more episodes of Riley you have left.
Only 2, buddy. Stay strong.
And without spoilers, there is lots of Anya goodness ahead of you.
Kurosawa Fan
08-27-2010, 05:11 PM
Watched Listening to Fear. Decent, nothing more. I'm really hoping things pick up soon.
Oh, and I couldn't help clicking that spoiler.
So Into the Woods is the last one???
:pritch:
Watched Listening to Fear. Decent, nothing more. I'm really hoping things pick up soon.
Oh, and I couldn't help clicking that spoiler.
So Into the Woods is the last one???
:pritch:
Yuppers.
"Listening to Fear" has one perfect Giles moment.
Xander': I still don't get why we had to come here to get info about a killer snot monster.
Giles: Because it's a killer snot monster from outer space... I did not say that.
Other than that, eh.
Kurosawa Fan
08-27-2010, 06:37 PM
Finished Into the Woods. Loved the closing moment with Xander and Anya. Otherwise, another fairly bland episode.
Oh, and :pritch:
Finished Into the Woods. Loved the closing moment with Xander and Anya. Otherwise, another fairly bland episode.
Oh, and :pritch:
Yeah, good riddance, right? The whole point of that episode is to propel Xander into talking about his feelings. Both Willow and Buffy have made snarky comments about Anya being convenient, and implying that the only reason he's with her is for easy sex. WELL HE'S NOT. HE LOVES HER. (The running dismissal of Anya reminds me of the way they talk about Anne Bland in Arrested Development: "Her?")
Oh, actually, I like the scene with Spike and Riley, mostly for what Spike has to say. It's a rare moment of him being honest about his complex feelings for Buffy and what he thinks he wants (which, to him, is certainly more important than what she actually wants.) "She needs a little monster in her man."
The next episode is cotton candy, but it's genuinely funny and has some great Anya moments.
Kurosawa Fan
08-27-2010, 09:40 PM
Can't say I was too crazy about Triangles. It had a few moments, but I don't think Sarah Michelle Gellar pulls off comedy very well, and this was no exception. I liked Spike at The Bronze though. Very funny. "Hi Buffy." And "What's a guy have to do?" or something along those lines.
I think SMG sobbing "They have a miraculous love" on Tara's shoulder, particularly after the cutting things she said last episode, was pretty dang funny. But the funniest bits are Anya and Spike.
Next episode is on my top list.
Lucky
08-27-2010, 10:27 PM
Can't say I was too crazy about Triangles. It had a few moments, but I don't think Sarah Michelle Gellar pulls off comedy very well, and this was no exception.
Wait until you see the episode "Life Serial" next season. You may change your mind. It contains my favorite comedic scene in the show, and it's all about Buffy. I have to ask -- what's your overall opinion of SMG as an actress?
Ah all the season five talk. You've been holding out on us.
"Listening to Fear" -- is that the one where Joyce is having the delusions? I think that's Kristine Sutherland's best performance. I also like Buffy crying to salsa music while washing dishes.
Kind of disappointed Glory's grating on you, but like Mara said, her character does have a few twists that might intrigue you. At the very least, don't you feel like her presence is menacing when she enters a scene with our beloved characters? She was the first bad guy where I actually believed something bad might happen when she appeared.
"Triangle" is the episode I would rank the lowest this year, although I still like it.
Thoughts on "Fool for Love", also one of my favorite episodes.
Kurosawa Fan
08-28-2010, 04:10 PM
Wait until you see the episode "Life Serial" next season. You may change your mind. It contains my favorite comedic scene in the show, and it's all about Buffy. I have to ask -- what's your overall opinion of SMG as an actress?
You aren't going to like this, but I find her very bland. She's the weakest link in the show (of the Scooby gang, that is) as far as I'm concerned, which is odd since the show is primarily about her struggle. SMG very rarely sells me on Buffy's intense emotions.
Ah all the season five talk. You've been holding out on us.
"Listening to Fear" -- is that the one where Joyce is having the delusions? I think that's Kristine Sutherland's best performance. I also like Buffy crying to salsa music while washing dishes.
Yeah, that's the one. I think the show makes serious missteps with what it believes it can pull off when it comes to demons and aliens and such. That crawling wormy guy made me laugh more than he made me cringe, and that detracts from my experience. Also, Joyce's turnaround was a bit... iffy. One minute she's ranting and raving at the ceiling, the next she's totally fine, and stays that way for the remainder of the episode. Bit of a head-scratcher.
Kind of disappointed Glory's grating on you, but like Mara said, her character does have a few twists that might intrigue you. At the very least, don't you feel like her presence is menacing when she enters a scene with our beloved characters? She was the first bad guy where I actually believed something bad might happen when she appeared.
She's a threatening presence, and is unpredictable, but she's still annoying. Her constant whining is absurd. Her spoiled-child persona doesn't reinforce her darkness and her power. Yes, it's obvious she's strong based on her constant ass-whooping of Buffy, but she doesn't act strong, she doesn't exude strength.
"Triangle" is the episode I would rank the lowest this year, although I still like it.
Thoughts on "Fool for Love", also one of my favorite episodes.
Fool for Love is my favorite episode this season thus far. I don't have much to say beyond what Mara already wrote in her review. I also loved the inter-cutting between Spike on the subway and Spike outside the Bronze telling Buffy about the experience. And unlike Mara, I didn't have a problem with Spike's origin being that of a whimpering sissy who writes bad poetry and pines for his unrequited love. That's an interesting place to start for Spike, and it seems natural that he would take his aggressions out on slayers rather than avoid them, considering all slayers are female. Despite his connection to Dru, in the darkness that comes with vampirism, he can't move beyond his scorned past.
SMG is hit or miss with me in the acting. Most of the time she's serviceable, sometimes really good, and occasionally totally off.
My #1 episode of the show leans heavily on her acting during the first half, and she is amazing. And it is in season 5.
Kurosawa Fan
08-28-2010, 09:03 PM
Yep, "Checkpoint" was indeed pretty great. The speech at the end was very cool. I think The Council was a bit quick to be so emasculated by her new-found power, but it still worked well for me. Loved all the Spike and Anya bits, as usual ("Willow was a demon???").
The cross-cutting interview with the friends/Spike is one of the best-written funny moments on the show.
Anyway, my write-up:
9. Checkpoint (5.12)
Written by Jane Espenson and Directed by Douglas Petrie
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Checkpoint206.jpg
BUFFY: You guys didn't come all the way from England to determine whether or not I was good enough to be let back in. You came to beg me to let you back in. To give your jobs, your lives some semblance of meaning.
NIGEL: This is beyond insolence-
Buffy grabs the sword from the table and throws it across the room in a single movement. It flies point-first into the wall directly in front of Nigel's nose. He jumps back looking shocked.
BUFFY: I'm fairly certain I said no interruptions.
XANDER: That was excellent!
BUFFY: You're Watchers. Without a Slayer, you're pretty much just watchin' Masterpiece Theater. You can't stop Glory. You can't do anything with the information you have except maybe publish it in the "Everyone Thinks We're Insane-O's Home Journal." So here's how it's gonna work. You're gonna tell me everything you know. Then you're gonna go away. You'll contact me if and when you have any further information about Glory. The magic shop will remain open. Mr. Giles will stay here as my official Watcher, reinstated at full salary...
GILES: Retroactive.
BUFFY: ...to be paid retroactively from the month he was fired. I will continue my work with the help of my friends...
WATCHER2: I, uh, I ... don't want a sword thrown at me, but, but, civilians, I - we're talking about children.
BUFFY: We're talking about two very powerful witches and a thousand-year-old ex-demon.
ANYA: Willow's a demon?!
PHILIP: The boy? No power there.
BUFFY: The boy has clocked more field time than all of you combined. He's part of the unit.
WILLOW: That's Riley-speak.
XANDER: I've clocked field time.
BUFFY: Now. You all may be very good at your jobs. The only way we're gonna find out is if you work with me. You can all take your time thinking about that. But I want an answer right now from Quinton, 'cause I think he's understanding me.
TRAVERS: Uh, your terms are acceptable.
Summary: The Watcher's Council comes to Sunnydale and insists on a review of Buffy's methods before sharing with her thier information about Glory. They threaten Giles, embarass her friends, and humiliate her.
Why I like it: Most of the favorite episodes I'm listing are in some way a deviation from the normal storytelling. They're "the story suddenly takes a sharp turn to the left" or "the story cumulates into a final battle", etc. This is one of the very few episodes that could simply be called "the story continues." However, the dynamics and writing are so freaking good that I love just about every scene.
This is the first episode on the list written by Espenson, but it won't be the last. She does an interesting and delicate thing in this episode. She emasculates Buffy. (I hate to use that word, but it fits.) In this episode, Buffy is singled out and mocked by a history professor (which she hilariously pays back to a vampire later), is hurt by Spike, is threatened and frightened by Glory, and finally takes it all out on the Watcher's Council. Buffy finally figures out that the reason people keep telling her she's unimportant is because she's very, very important.
Beyond that, Buffy manages to defend her friends. The brilliantly edited, hilarious scene where the Watcher's Council interview Willow and Tara, Xander and Anya, and Spike makes her friends feel powerless and out of thier depth. I love that she rebukes the Council for trying to question thier abilities (quoted above.)
I liked this episode the first time I watched it, but I didn't love it. That came with rewatches. If you haven't seen it in awhile, give it another shot.
Interesting Tidbits:
Anya's made-up full name is Anya Christina Emanuella Jenkins.
Kurosawa Fan
08-29-2010, 08:38 PM
Blood Lines was quite good as well, and I'm beginning to feel more menace from Glory. This season is shaping up really well. I'm impressed.
Blood Lines was quite good as well, and I'm beginning to feel more menace from Glory. This season is shaping up really well. I'm impressed.
You're on a good run for the rest of the season (with one exception, in my opinion, and I'm in the minority.)
As a matter of fact, you're within spitting distance of my #1 EPISODE EVER and I'm obnoxiously anxious to hear your opinion of it.
KF: I'm trying not to tease too much on future events, but after "Crush" and "I Was Made to Love You," you should really not watch the next episode at work. Carve out an hour at home when you won't be interrupted.
Kurosawa Fan
08-31-2010, 04:59 PM
KF: I'm trying not to tease too much on future events, but after "Crush" and "I Was Made to Love You," you should really not watch the next episode at work. Carve out an hour at home when you won't be interrupted.
Noted. I'll try to make that happen. Started school today, so time is an issue again.
Lucky
09-01-2010, 12:55 AM
You aren't going to like this, but I find her very bland. She's the weakest link in the show (of the Scooby gang, that is) as far as I'm concerned, which is odd since the show is primarily about her struggle. SMG very rarely sells me on Buffy's intense emotions.
You make my soul cry.
Fool for Love is my favorite episode this season thus far. I don't have much to say beyond what Mara already wrote in her review. I also loved the inter-cutting between Spike on the subway and Spike outside the Bronze telling Buffy about the experience. And unlike Mara, I didn't have a problem with Spike's origin being that of a whimpering sissy who writes bad poetry and pines for his unrequited love. That's an interesting place to start for Spike, and it seems natural that he would take his aggressions out on slayers rather than avoid them, considering all slayers are female. Despite his connection to Dru, in the darkness that comes with vampirism, he can't move beyond his scorned past.
There's an episode of Angel that is a sister piece to this one called "Darla." It's one of the handful of Angel episodes I can adamently stand behind. "Fool for Love" would land on my top 10 episode list, but there are still two eps you have left to see from this season that I'd rank higher.
Lucky
09-01-2010, 01:01 AM
On a completely off topic note --
Do you ever have one of those days where you stare at a common word you typed and think it might be misspelled? I just experienced that above with the word "piece." I had to run through the "i" before "e" except after "c" rule in my head, but then I was second guessing that "piece" might be one of those exceptions. I actually had to look it up on the dictionary app on my phone before I submitted that post.
And that's another point I'd like to illustrate about my neuroses. For some reason I get very anxious about my grammar and spelling when I post on matchcut. Nowhere else. Just here.
Kurosawa Fan
09-01-2010, 04:49 PM
Crush was fantastic. The look on Spike's face at the end of the episode gave his torment a depth it didn't have before that. Oh, man. I'm loving this season. LOVING it.
Crush was fantastic. The look on Spike's face at the end of the episode gave his torment a depth it didn't have before that. Oh, man. I'm loving this season. LOVING it.
:pritch:
Anything that puts Buffy, Harmony, and Dru all in a room together is fine by me. He has eclectic taste, you have to give him that.
The next episode is on my list, because I like it quite a bit, but it was a controversial choice. I'm interested to hear your take.
Oh, wait-- the look is when she locks him out, right? Brilliant. He doesn't need a word. You know exactly how he feels about her and how much the gesture hurts and angers him.
Especially after he made that snarky comment to Riley before he left, that one of the reasons he couldn't give up hope on being with Buffy is because he's never been locked out.
Kurosawa Fan
09-01-2010, 05:18 PM
Yep, yep, yep. That's one of my favorite moments of the entire series thus far. His look was perfect. That was just crushing.
Did you notice as he was sucking up to Buffy in the last few episodes he was dressing less and less like Spike? He kept trying to act as "normal" as possible, and trying not to feed off victims. He's pretending to be a real boy.
The apex of that was at the beginning of this episode when he shows up trying to hang with her at the Bronze wearing brown leather, a button-down shirt, and khakis. He's dressed like Riley.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Crush012.jpg
The thing is, but we as an audience, and Buffy, find him the most compelling in full Spike-mode, with the coat and the boots. He's trying to be what she wants, but (as of now) he has a fundamental misunderstanding of what she wants. Drusilla thinks that the chip has neutered him, but it's not the chip; it's him desperately trying to be what Buffy would want.
Oh, and, note: she also doesn't want to be tied up and tased. That says "love" to Drusilla, not Buffy.
Kurosawa Fan
09-01-2010, 05:45 PM
Yes, definitely caught all of that.
As for "I Was Made to Love You," it was a good episode, but certainly nothing I'd put on a best of list. I loved the moment with Spike in the magic shop, and Giles' reaction to his protestations, as well as the moments between Buffy and Xander, but the robot story was blah, and while it served as a notice to Buffy about her own love life (and was a nice, subtle push in Spike's direction), it wasn't compelling enough while it was happening. I also don't really care for Spike asking for a Buffy model.
The closing moment with Joyce... I don't know. Something about it rubbed me the wrong way. It seemed cheap.
I knew she was going to die (I think it was my sister that let that slip) but I didn't know when, didn't even know if it would be this season. But the way they did it, almost as a twist, just cheapened the emotion of the moment.
I'm sure they make up for this in the next episode, considering it's your favorite of the season and you asked me to watch it uninterrupted, and I'm looking forward to that, but unfortunately I'm a bit disappointed with how the moment began.
As for "I Was Made to Love You," it was a good episode, but certainly nothing I'd put on a best of list. I loved the moment with Spike in the magic shop, and Giles' reaction to his protestations, as well as the moments between Buffy and Xander, but the robot story was blah, and while it served as a notice to Buffy about her own love life (and was a nice, subtle push in Spike's direction), it wasn't compelling enough while it was happening.
Yeah, for some reason, I'm alone in really loving this episode. I think it might be because I'm fascinated by people who change themselves or negate themselves in order to attract another person. It's a theme that shows up in my own writing all the time.
My write-up:
17. I was Made to Love You (5.15)
Written by Jane Espenson, Directed by James Contner
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/IWMTLY440.jpg
XANDER: I think I've actually turned into someone you want around after a crazed robot attack.
BUFFY: ....she wasn't crazed.
XANDER: Yeah?
BUFFY: She devoted everything to making this one person happy. And then it was like, with him gone, there was just ... no reason for her to exist any more.
XANDER: Robots are the strangest people.
BUFFY: No ... people are the strangest people.
Summary: Warren, in his first appearance, creates a sexbot but then ditches her when he gets bored. It turns out she's undumpable.
Why I love it: This is another one where I appear to be in the minority. I find this episode fascinating. I love the exploration of women who need men, and why, and what it means when you base your self-worth on being loved. It's not just Warren and April and Katrina, and Xander and Anya, and Buffy and Ben (and Riley, really).
I think the actress who plays April did a wonderful job. She does "robot" perfectly.
ANYA: She speaks with a strange evenness and selects her words a shade too precisely.
XANDER: Well, some of us like that kind of thing in a girl.
BUFFY: So, what do you guys think she is? I mean, this may sound nuts, but I kinda got the impression that she was a-
TARA: Robot.
XANDER: Oh yeah, robot.
BUFFY: Yeah, I was gonna say robot. What do you think she wants?
The actress' last scene, when her batteries run out on the swing, is beautifully played.
APRIL: It's so early to be dark.
BUFFY: Yeah.
APRIL: What if he comes back and he can't find me in the dark?
BUFFY: I'm here. I'll make sure that he finds you.
APRIL: Maybe this is a girlfriend test. If I wait here patiently this time, he'll come back.
BUFFY: I'm sure he will. And he'll ... he'll tell you how sorry he is. You know, he told me ... how proud he was of you and ... how impressed he was with how much you loved him and how you tried to help him. He didn't mean to hurt you.
APRIL: He's going to take me home, and things will be right again.
BUFFY: It'll be fine.
APRIL: When things are sad ... you just have to be patient. Because ... because every ... cloud has a silver lining. And ... when life ... gives you lemons ... make ... lemonade.
BUFFY: Clouds and lemonade, huh?
APRIL: Yes. And ... and ... things are ... always ... darkest ... before....
If you have the DVDs, you should really listen to this episode with the commentary by Jane Espenson. She backed up a lot of the things I thought about this episode, and adds additional insight.
Interesting Tidbits:
There's a rumor that Britney Spears was slated to play April in this episode and backed out at the last minute. Words cannot express my relief.
I also don't really care for Spike asking for a Buffy model.
It plays out interestingly.
The closing moment with Joyce... I don't know. Something about it rubbed me the wrong way. It seemed cheap.
I knew she was going to die (I think it was my sister that let that slip) but I didn't know when, didn't even know if it would be this season. But the way they did it, almost as a twist, just cheapened the emotion of the moment.
I'm sure they make up for this in the next episode, considering it's your favorite of the season and you asked me to watch it uninterrupted, and I'm looking forward to that, but unfortunately I'm a bit disappointed with how the moment began.
I've always assumed that the reason they tacked that moment on, as a coda to the prior episode, was to give the viewers a week to get used to the idea. It's shocking and unexpected, and if we're shocked, we're busy being surprised and not attending to what happens next.
Also, it's important the the moment is completely out of nowhere for Buffy. With all the illness and surgeries and everything else, she is still completely unprepared for that moment.
But I recall finding the moment quite affecting the first time I saw it. I didn't know Joyce was going to die.
it's your favorite of the season
Series. It's the best episode of the series, in my opinion.
My #2 I see more commonly on lists as #1. But they're all wrong.
Kurosawa Fan
09-01-2010, 07:00 PM
Series. It's the best episode of the series, in my opinion.
My #2 I see more commonly on lists as #1. But they're all wrong.
Well, I would also consider it my favorite of the series thus far, and had it not been for one small misstep, I might consider it one of the most devastating, well-made episodes of ANY television series. And yes, SMG was the main reason.
Sorry, couldn't wait for tonight, but you'll be glad to know my viewing was uninterrupted.
Well, I would also consider it my favorite of the series thus far, and had it not been for one small misstep, I might consider it one of the most devastating, well-made episodes of ANY television series. And yes, SMG was the main reason.
That's unfortunate. I think it's one of her best acting episodes, but DAMN Willow and Anya both get me sobbing. They are so freaking good.
A lot of people have complained about the vampire attack at the end. I found it jarring, at first, but the more I think about it, the more it's just another show that life goes on in Sunnydale even though, for these particular characters, time has stopped. Children still play outside after Buffy vomits in the back room, Xander's car gets ticketed, vampires still prey on the living.
Great quote from Joss about this episode:
My experience with death is that apart from a lot of people hugging at funerals, it seldom brings people together. It actually tears them apart. And I had always learned from TV that death made everybody stronger and better and learn about themselves. And my experience was that an important piece had been taken out of the puzzle ... and there is no glorious payoff.
Anyway, my write-up:
1. The Body (5.16)
Written & Directed by Joss Whedon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Body159.jpg
BUFFY: (putting her hand on Joyce's) She's cold.
911 OPERATOR: The body's cold?
BUFFY: No, my mom! Sh-should I make her warm?
Summary: Buffy comes home to find her mother's body in the living room.
Why I love it: I think I can safely say that I have never identified more with an episode of a television show in my life. This feels so personal to me that I can barely bring myself to watch it, even if I'm on a Buffy kick. But, then, just when I'm doing something else, unrelated, I'll find myself thinking about it and put it on.
This is one of the most honest depictions of grief and shock that I've ever seen. It's harrowing and heart-breaking. Sometimes, when you've experienced losing a close loved one, you feel very isolated, like you're in a special club of people that understand one another, but nobody else in the world does. If I'm watching a film or a play or reading a book that is trying to show what grief does to you, I can tell immediately if the writer has ever actually experienced that, or if they're pretending.
Once, in college, I was in a writing class and a girl was writing a play about a child who loses her mother. I was so frustrated with the emotional inaccuracies that I began to cry and had to step into the hall. A boy I knew, but with whom I hadn't really spoken, came out and put his hand on my back. He said, "You can't be angry with her. She's just never had her life torn apart."
And, that was it. I knew he was in my club. I said, "My brother." He said, "My father." We hugged and I cried, because I knew he understood me.
The first time I watched this episode, I thought, "Oh, no, Joss. I'm so sorry. I didn't know." I didn't need to be told that he'd lost loved ones. He may as well have been screaming it at the top of his lungs. And, if you ever feel emotionally up to it, try listening to this episode with his commentary. (Bring kleenex.)
Anyway, I'm sorry my first entry is such a downer. Trust me-- I kept back the most personal stories. (There is one scene in the episode that mirrors my actual life experience to a freakish and disturbing degree. I'll keep that private-- I just want you to know how accurate I found this.)
And I can't really end the episode without mentioning how great the writing is. The transition between thinking of Joyce as a person, with a name and with realtionships, to everyone treating her body like an empty object is handled masterfully.
I could go on and on. The cinematography. What this show says about Buffy as a hero, a savior, and a slayer. Predestinations in prior episodes and seasons. But you probably don't need me to tell you all that.
Interesting Tidbits:
This episode has no background music. Joss said that music comforts an audience, and he didn't want us comforted.
Despite the fact that Willow and Tara have had a physical relationship for well over a year, this is the first time we see them kiss. Although that makes for some awkward and unnatural story-telling in season 4 and the early part of season 5, I have to say that I love how the first time we see them kiss, there's nothing titillating or exploitive about it. It's just love and comfort and strength.
Sorry, couldn't wait for tonight, but you'll be glad to know my viewing was uninterrupted.
Oh, that's fine. I assume you're not a big ol' crybaby like me, but I thought I'd give you a heads up just in case.
And I hope Lucky doesn't mind me quoting him, but he had some really beautiful stuff to say in the other thread:
I know this is out of the blue, but I lost my brother last week and what you wrote here stuck with me. I watched "The Body" and "Forever" the day after my brother died. Saw it in a completely new light. Noticed little aspects that never clicked for me before. Biggest one was when Buffy opens the back door after discovering her mother's body and sunlight pours in the room -- it's a beautiful day, you hear children playing. Even though it feels like time has stopped for you, the world still turns. I had a similar experience on the way to the funeral. Paradoxically, the weather was beautiful on Thursday. As I was sitting in the car with my family during the funeral procession I had my window rolled down. The car was silent. No radio. No talking. We passed a school playground and the laughter of a group of children shattered our glass shell of silence. At first I felt angry -- how could anyone laugh at a time like that? Why didn't these kids have the respect to care about my brother? ...but then you realize. Time hasn't stopped for everyone.
I couldn't agree more with what you say, Mara. I can't tell you how many people have come up to me this week to try to offer their condolences, but you KNOW when someone is truly empathizing with you. You can tell by the look in their eye. You can still see their hurt. It is, unfortunately, like a club. And if there's any good that comes from this experience I have to imagine it's the feeling you get when you encounter a new member and help them realize they aren't alone.
Kurosawa Fan
09-01-2010, 07:15 PM
That's unfortunate. I think it's one of her best acting episodes, but DAMN Willow and Anya both get me sobbing. They are so freaking good.
Bah, poorly worded on my part. I thought SMG was fantastic. I meant that to read that she is the main reason the episode was so affecting. The small misstep was indeed the vamp attack at the end. I just didn't feel the episode needed it. There were other moments where it's understood the world keeps moving after death. I was really impressed that they hadn't thrown any moments with baddies into the episode and just let the moment and the characters (and actors) do all the work, leaving us with a quiet, heart-wrenching episode. And then that vamp popped up, and instead of it just being a poignant moment with the two sisters and the body of their mother, we had another fight thrown into the mix. I guess maybe my opinion on that is shaped by the fact that I grow tired of all the punching and kicking and whatnot, and really just like spending time with the gang, so adding some punching and kicking to such an intense, private moment kind of spoiled things.
Oh, I see. I've come to a certain amount of peace with the fight scene (she couldn't get one day off from the most thankless job ever?) but I agree the episode probably could have been better without it.
I do like the moment when Buffy is fighting for her life but Dawn can't take her eyes of her mother's hair.
I'm SO glad they resisted the urge to have Glory in the episode. She's mentioned a couple of times, but she would have really taken me out of the moment.
BY THE WAY, not only did this show never receive an Emmy, it was only nominated once. For "Hush." Utter balderdash.
There's actually a bit of a conspiracy theory about my #2 pick for the series, in season 6. It was supposed to be on the Emmy ballot but was deleted by accident, and though they sent out a correcting postcard, it was after many ballots had already been completed and returned.
Lucky
09-02-2010, 12:43 AM
Even after all of the rationalizations of the final vamp scene, I still can't fully shake the feeling that it's solely there for contractual obligations to include an action scene in every episode. Maybe if it weren't at the very end. I can't quite call it a misstep, but I do beileve there would be better uses of screentime.
I read KF's original statement the same way you did, Mara. I think my mouth literally dropped. I had never heard a negative comment about SMG's performance in that episode, let alone say it was the sole deterring factor. Haha, all is good though.
Kurosawa Fan
09-02-2010, 05:41 PM
Didn't much care for Forever. That was all the melodrama I was so happy the show avoided with The Body. And I'm not sure I buy Willow doing what she did. Disappointing, especially following such a brilliant episode.
Let's talk about this. Because plenty of people put "Forever" somewhere between "good" and "okay", and I think I might hate it a little bit. Obviously, after "The Body", most episodes were going to feel like a let-down, but I think it may be more than that.
First and foremost, let me point out the two parts I really like: Spike bringing the flowers, because he and Joyce had a nice sort of connection and I think he's genuinely grieved, and Giles, drinking alone and listening to "The Tales of Brave Ulysses", which is the song that he and Joyce listened to in his apartment during "Band Candy." I love that moment-- an understated nod to his own relationship with her, and what he has lost.
Other than that, I have problem after problem with this little number. For one thing, I do feel it's emotionally dishonest. "The Body" managed to convey the hopelessness of grief in a way I don't see on television. On tv, you get a shot of a dead person, a weeping reaction shot, and then cut to everyone looking all sad in black around the grave while it drizzles. Afterwards, everyone is sadder and wiser. And that's just... such... bullshit. I accept it, because I don't see it changing anytime soon, and that's the way television does it.
And I was proud of BtVS not going that way. But in "Forever," they kind of do. The collapsing-in-cathartic-tears thing is just not what I want from the show.
To its credit, Buff doesn't rebound and go back to her normal life like nothing happened. Joyce's death is a fissure in her life, and the show deals with it fairly honestly over the next couple of years.
And I'm not sure I buy Willow doing what she did.
When Willow is emotionally grieved or traumatized, she reacts emotionally by misusing magic. It's a major theme. The first time we saw it was in "Something Blue" when she tries to magic herself out of her (perfectly natural) grief over Oz leaving.
Kurosawa Fan
09-02-2010, 06:11 PM
Glad you're with me on this. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment.
When Willow is emotionally grieved or traumatized, she reacts emotionally by misusing magic. It's a major theme. The first time we saw it was in "Something Blue" when she tries to magic herself out of her (perfectly natural) grief over Oz leaving.
It's one thing to try something herself, but to encourage Dawn to look for a way to resurrect her mother, with absolutely no training or know-how whatsoever is just absurd. She should have been as disturbed by Dawn's attitude as Tara was. I just can't imagine that she would be that irresponsible, especially considering the trauma she's been dealing with while trying to learn transportation spells for Glory.
Willow totally lies to Tara about giving Dawn the book. This is a dark moment for Willow, something she's not proud of. I suspect that she didn't want Dawn to do it alone-- I think she was perhaps planning on helping.
In happier news, I think the next episode is great: sad and funny, and really starts to propel the story into its final arc of the season.
Kurosawa Fan
09-02-2010, 06:17 PM
Willow totally lies to Tara about giving Dawn the book. This is a dark moment for Willow, something she's not proud of. I suspect that she didn't want Dawn to do it alone-- I think she was perhaps planning on helping.
I know, it just seems far too reckless, even considering Willow's state of mind. I felt like it came way out of left field. It's not a huge issue, but I wish they had let Dawn find the book on her own after Willow and Tara left.
Kurosawa Fan
09-03-2010, 03:51 PM
Really liked "Intervention." One thing about this show, more often than not they absolutely nail the closing moments, and this was no exception.
I'm impressed they managed to have such a funny episode while not feeling like they're forgetting about or ignoring Joyce. It has some great moments. I didn't add this in my write-up, but I love Giles doing his hokey-pokey spell. "That's what it's all about."
21. Intervention 5.18
Written by Jane Espenson, Directed by Michael Gershman
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Intervention623.jpg
XANDER: Buffy, we care about you, and we're worried about you. The way you're acting, the things you're doing-
ANYA: It's wrong.
WILLOW: Wait. This shouldn't be about blame.
BUFFY: Blame? There's blame now?
WILLOW: No, there's only love. And ... some fear.
ANYA: Which is kind of thrown by the you having sex with Spike.
BUFFY: The ... who whating how with huh?
ANYA: Okay, that's denial. That usually comes before anger.
BUFFY: I am not having sex with Spike!
ANYA: Anger.
XANDER: No one is judging you. It's understandable. Spike is strong and mysterious and sort of compact but well-muscled.
BUFFY: I am not having sex with Spike! But I'm starting to think that you might be.
Summary: Concerned about her increasing emotional distance from her friends, Buffy and Giles go out into the desert where she encounters the first slayer, who tells her that death is her gift. Meanwhile, Spike has a brand new toy! A Buffybot. When Xander and Anya catch them having sex, much farce! But then Spike gets kidnapped and tortured by Glory, which he endures to protect Buffy and Dawn.
Why I love it: Good times. The stuff in the desert is interesting and beautiful and sets up the season finale.
And, of course, we love the Buffybot! I'll never get people who complain about SMG's acting. She is gobs of fun as the 'bot. She has this million-watt smile that still manages to be creepy. And we get these fantastic visuals.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Intervention353.jpg
Finally, we get the first real step forward in Spike and Buffy's relationship. They made out extensively in "Something Blue" while under a spell, and we had the visual of them all freaky when Spike was getting it on with the Buffybot, but this is the first time that the two of them actually kiss, by thier own volition.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Intervention680.jpg
And it's out of gratitude and genuine affection.
SPIKE: And my robot?
BUFFY: The robot is gone. The robot was gross and obscene.
SPIKE: It wasn't supposed to-
BUFFY: Don't. That ... thing, it ... it wasn't even real. What you did, for me, and Dawn ... that was real.
Interesting Tidbits:
This is the first time we see Spike's mussed-up sex hair. He wears it like that occasionally in later episodes as well.
Nicolas Brennan's twin brother Kelly Donovan is credited in this episode. Apparently, he doubled a few scenes because Brennan was ill. I don't know which scenes.
It's guns-a-blazing from here on to the season finale-- which is number 3 on my top list. Season 5 is just... so... awesome.
Just for kicks, here's my top 35 list, with what you have seen and what you haven't seen:
1. The Body (5.16)
2. ??? (Season 6)
3. [Season Finale] (5.22)
4. ??? (Season 7)
5. Restless (4.22)
6. Hush (4.10)
7. Doppelgangland (3.16)
8. Graduation Day Parts I & II (3.21 & 3.22)
9. Checkpoint (5.12)
10. ??? (Season 7)
11. Prophecy Girl (1.12)
12. Band Candy (3.6)
13. The Zeppo (3.13)
14. Superstar (4.17)
15. Fool for Love (5.7)
16. The Wish (3.9)
17. I was Made to Love You (5.15)
18. Passion (2.17)
19. ??? (Season 7)
21. The Prom (3.20)
21. Intervention 5.18
22. Lover's Walk (3.8)
23. ??? (Season 6)
24. Something Blue (4.9)
25. Bad Girls (3.14)
26. Halloween (2.6)
27. Who Are You? (4.16)
28. ??? (Season 6)
29. Suprise (I) and Innocence (II) (2.13 & 2.14)
30. The Replacement (5.3)
31. ??? (Season 6)
32. ??? (Season 7)
33. Angel (1.7)
34. ??? (Season 7)
35. Bewitched, Bothered, & Bewildered (2.16)
Kurosawa Fan
09-03-2010, 04:19 PM
Totally agree about SMG. She's been winning me over the second half of this season.
EDIT: And it's nice to see I still have four of the top ten episodes in front of me.
EDIT: And it's nice to see I still have four of the top ten episodes in front of me.
There's a lack of consensus among fans regarding seasons 6 & 7, but there is no denying that when it is on, it is ON. They do some pretty incredible stuff.
Lucky
09-03-2010, 05:00 PM
Totally agree about SMG. She's been winning me over the second half of this season.
This makes me smile.
I want to write up a defense of the closing scene in "Forever" but I am on vacation and only have Internet via phone. I am restricted to short answers. I have been following this thread faithfully though. Can't wait for KF's thoughts on the finale. And I completely agree with your comment about the closing moments of episodes. That trend will continue.
I want to write up a defense of the closing scene in "Forever" but I am on vacation and only have Internet via phone.
I remembered that you liked it. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it when you get back.
Kurosawa Fan
09-03-2010, 06:03 PM
"Tough Love" was kind of eh. The first half with all the bickering was fairly annoying, the middle got much stronger, and while the end certainly set up what's sure to be a great final few episodes, the execution felt a bit off. I don't know, I'm probably being too picky.
Anywho, onwards and upwards!
Lucky
09-03-2010, 06:09 PM
I remembered that you liked it. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it when you get back.
My friend's flight is delayed so I've got some time to type away. The closing scene in Forever is pivotal and a standout of the fifth season because it's the moment Buffy assumes the role of mother to Dawn. Even though Dawn is reluctant, Buffy forces her to accept the reality of the situation. The physical slap speaks volumes and works on three levels -- 1) It illustrates the slayers natural urge to respond to intense e
emotion and conflict with physical violence. 2) It's Dawn's wake up call. And most importantly 3) It's symbolic of mother condescendingly chiding her daughter. The scene is carefully written and brilliantly played out by both actresses. I think KF was the one who used the word melodramatic, but I feel these angry emotions are natural given the circumstances of recent grieving. I can understand the distaste of the supernatural element and the suspense/melodrama that adds, but I think it plays in beautifully with Dawn's new acceptance of reality. Buffys hopeful "Mommy" at the end slays me, too. Buffy is just as reluctant and scared as her sister, and for one moment you see the glimmer of hope in her eyes. Once reality hits again, though, I think the catharsis of tears is duly merited.
I believe there's so much more going on here that reducing it to melodrama is unfair. It's a pivotal scene for Buffy's series-long character development. SMG nails it, too.
In my "favorite couples" thread from whenever back, in my "Willow & Tara" entry, I used the line from this:
Doctor: She's your sister?
Willow: She's my everything.
...because that's a great scene. Mostly, this episodes just about setting up the chips before knocking them over again.
"Tough Love" was kind of eh. The first half with all the bickering was fairly annoying, the middle got much stronger, and while the end certainly set up what's sure to be a great final few episodes, the execution felt a bit off. I don't know, I'm probably being too picky.
Also, another important example of Willow becoming very unlike Willow when she is grieved-- she stops behaving rationally and intelligently and lashes out with dark magic, without any real forethought of consequences.
I believe there's so much more going on here that reducing it to melodrama is unfair. It's a pivotal scene for Buffy's series-long character development. SMG nails it, too.
Some good points, especially about the way that the Slayer reacts to situations. "The Fist." And I know we've discussed before how important Dawn is to the character of Buffy because it finally prevents her from acting like a child and makes her into a mother and a protector.
I may give this last scene another go.
Kurosawa Fan
09-03-2010, 06:19 PM
Oh, I keep forgetting to tell you guys. This entire season on Netflix, because the picture is widescreen but was being cropped for televisions, I'm constantly catching glimpses of crew members on the sides of the screen. The most egregious of these is in the first ten minutes or so of "Spiral" when the knights begin marching. There's a guy in a flannel shirt in the corner of the screen who has no business being there. I laughed out loud as soon as I saw him. Anyone with access to Netflix should check it out. Very funny.
Kurosawa Fan
09-03-2010, 06:22 PM
I believe there's so much more going on here that reducing it to melodrama is unfair. It's a pivotal scene for Buffy's series-long character development. SMG nails it, too.
I might be able to buy your explanation if it wasn't for the fact that neither has accepted that role, as we see in Tough Love. That's when Buffy truly accepts her situation and her mother role, and that's when the reality of their predicament, especially when Dawn realizes she could be taken away from Buffy, hits Dawn with full force and she becomes more subservient to Buffy's authority.
...hits Dawn with full force and she becomes more subservient to Buffy's authority.
Briefly, anyway. Dawn is a very teenagerish teenager. It's realistic, but that doesn't keep it from being annoying.
You done with Spiral? Because...
Crusaders on horses attacking an RV is, for me, pretty much this show in a nutshell. If you're ever unsure whether or not to recommend the show to a friend, float the notion of "crusaders on horses attacking an RV" and see how they respond.
Kurosawa Fan
09-03-2010, 07:16 PM
Yeah, that was almost too much for me, but I went with it. Great episode. I can't wait to see how this all wraps up. I mean, I'm pretty sure I know the certain events will play out, but it'll be fun seeing how they happen.
I mean, I'm pretty sure I know the certain events will play out, but it'll be fun seeing how they happen.
Have you been spoiled, or are you guessing? If you're guessing, I'm curious what you predict.
Kurosawa Fan
09-03-2010, 07:28 PM
Have you been spoiled, or are you guessing? If you're guessing, I'm curious what you predict.
Haven't been spoiled at all. Let me put it this way...
I know that Glory won't win. Obviously the universe won't come crashing down on itself. I'm pretty sure she'll turn into Ben in the next two episodes and will die that way (otherwise why would they mention it?). I'm very intrigued, and it's taken everything in my soul not to check the credits for next season, as to whether Dawn survives. I can see it going one of two ways: either she dies in the skirmish but the key isn't used, or somehow the key is extracted from her and she's able to go on being Buffy's sister. And when Glory dies, Tara will revert back to her former self. Either that or Willow will find a spell to snap her out of it. Probably the former though.
Lucky
09-04-2010, 12:13 AM
I'm glad you weren't spoiled for the finale. That's all I'm gonna say.
ledfloyd
09-04-2010, 04:43 AM
I'm glad you weren't spoiled for the finale. That's all I'm gonna say.
this.
Kurosawa Fan
09-04-2010, 04:19 PM
Finished. Fantastic season. Just fantastic. It would have been far more affecting had I not known there'd be a season six and seven. I guess that's the trouble with watching shows like this after the fact. I'll be interested to see how they continue things.
Also, I'm not entirely sure I buy what took place (the solution, anyway), but I won't nitpick too much.
Glad you liked it! Busy weekend and I injured two fingers so I'm going to keep typing to a minimum. Maybe more thoughts after I heal.
My write-up:
3. The Gift (5.22)
Written & Directed by Joss Whedon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Gift776.jpg
KID: H-how'd you do that?
BUFFY: It's what I do.
KID: But you're ... you're just a girl.
BUFFY: That's what I keep saying.
Summary: Glory has Dawn and intends to use her to open a gate to her home hell dimension.
Why I love it: Well, this is another weeper. From the opening scene, where Buffy encounters a vampire that doesn't recognize her as the slayer, to the scene in the magic shop where Buffy makes it clear that she won't prioritize anything above Dawn-- not even the end of the world-- this is a very bittersweet, haunting, and triumphant episode.
This entire episode hammers home again and again how much our characters love each other. Willow loves Tara. Xander loves Anya. Spike loves Buffy.
And Buffy loves Dawn.
This episode is, simply put, the epitome of Buffy As Hero. (I wrote a paper about this. Remember that?) She is all sacrifice, all virtue, all love.
Many people forget that it's Giles who actually kills Ben/Glory. Buffy can't do it without losing who fundamentally is. Giles, with all his wonderful qualities, is what Crazy-Tara calls him in the magic shop: a killer.
GILES: Can you move?
BEN: Need a ... a minute. She could've killed me.
GILES: No she couldn't. Never. And sooner or later Glory will re-emerge, and ... make Buffy pay for that mercy. And the world with her. Buffy even knows that... and still she couldn't take a human life. She's a hero, you see. She's not like us.
I think just about every moment of this episode is perfect. The weepy scenes, the fighty scenes, Xander and Anya in the basement of the Magic Box, the BuffyBot reveal, the music... the heartbreaking tableau at the end as all of Buffy's friends look at the fallen hero. Beautiful.
ledfloyd
09-07-2010, 03:31 AM
it's a perfect ending IMO. i think it's the logical ending point for the show. while i enjoy a lot of what happens in seasons 6 and 7 and there are some great episodes in there. i would give it up to have that be the ending. that final shot is just stunning.
it's a perfect ending IMO. i think it's the logical ending point for the show. while i enjoy a lot of what happens in seasons 6 and 7 and there are some great episodes in there. i would give it up to have that be the ending. that final shot is just stunning.
Although I love the episode, I'm extremely glad the show didn't end there. The last couple of seasons of Buffy's journey are too fascinating and unexpected. And although it's an interesting moment for her (it's very much her heroic epoch) A number of the other characters are still very much mid-journey as well, and I find the final resolution much more... resolved.
From my paper:
The Return and Reintegration with Society
Could the series have ended at this point? No. Despite how much peace may be found in death, the hero must return. “The full round, the norm of the monomyth, requires that the hero shall now begin the labor of bringing the runes of wisdom, the Golden Fleece, or his sleeping princess, back into the kingdom of humanity, where the boon may redound to the renewing of the community, the nation, the planet, or the ten thousand worlds.” (Campbell 193)
Vogler and Campbell disagree on the tone of the return. Vogler sees it as a time of celebration, bonfires and drinking. The great storm is over. Campbell believes, however, that it is a time of great pain and readjustment. Who, having found peace, would renounce it again?
Also, I'm not entirely sure I buy what took place (the solution, anyway), but I won't nitpick too much.
I thought of you last night while crocheting with BtVS on in the background. It's a quote from a future episode.
WILLOW: Remember that thing about they share the same blood or whatever?
ANYA: Yeah, I never got that.
:lol:
Kurosawa Fan
09-09-2010, 09:21 PM
I thought of you last night while crocheting with BtVS on in the background. It's a quote from a future episode.
:lol:
I get that they share the same blood, I'm just not sure how that stops the ritual. Being honest, it hasn't settled well. The more I think about it, the more it bothers me. It feels really cheap, like they gave Buffy an out just so she wouldn't have to sacrifice someone else.
That's not the plothole that bothers me.
The plothole that bothers me is that everyone is shocked-- SHOCKED-- that the key has taken human form, but the entire ritual centers around blood. She has to bleed-- how were they going to do that if the key was a blob of green energy? It doesn't make sense.
Kurosawa Fan
09-09-2010, 10:08 PM
That's not the plothole that bothers me.
The plothole that bothers me is that everyone is shocked-- SHOCKED-- that the key has taken human form, but the entire ritual centers around blood. She has to bleed-- how were they going to do that if the key was a blob of green energy? It doesn't make sense.
That too. And why doesn't the key matter after she's been cut? Her blood was still flowing, and they made a point of saying that the portal doesn't close until her blood stops flowing. Nothing was said about a different human sacrifice. So really, they could have just cut Buffy? Or after Dawn is cut, she's not a key anymore? Such a cheap ending, and it really affects the emotion of the moment.
It's problematic. I understand what they were trying to do, and I can still love the episode, but it all falls apart if you think about it too hard.
Lucky
09-10-2010, 12:56 AM
It's problematic. I understand what they were trying to do, and I can still love the episode, but it all falls apart if you think about it too hard.
I've never bothered to think about any of those plotholes. I don't know, for a show like Buffy which centers itself around human issues masked behind supernatural metaphors, I'm willing to ignore the supernatural fallacies when the human side is working well. Stop trying to make me find fault in "The Gift." Stop it now, I say. ;)
Dead & Messed Up
09-20-2010, 06:36 AM
Just popping in to say that I'm through "What's My Line," and that episode solidified the show's turn from mystery narrative into genre soap opera. The drama is now firmly rooted in romantic couples. This is not a complaint. The musical cues that accompanied
Xander and Cordelia kissing
were hilarious. Even better when I knew what was coming.
The banter's getting harder to deal with, though. Buffy and Xander are the two egregious offenders.
Just popping in to say that I'm through "What's My Line," and that episode solidified the show's turn from mystery narrative into genre soap opera. The drama is now firmly rooted in romantic couples.
Season 2 has a lot to say about teenage romance. I'd say that the show has moods more than anything, and certainly some of the season arcs focus more on couples than others.
The dialogue never really stops being cutesy, although it does evolve a bit as the characters get older. I'm not against show-specific dialogue as a rule (both Firefly and The West Wing come to mind as excellent examples) but the Scooby gang's half-language can get a little annoying sometimes. On the other hand, I actually talk like that myself, so I probably shouldn't complain. (Yesterday I found myself using the word "Frenchier.")
You are just a couple mediocre episodes away from one of the turning points of the show-- a watermark, kind of like "Prophecy Girl" in the first season. Can't wait to hear your reaction. Hope you're not spoiled.
I'm picking up volumes six and seven of Buffy Season 8. So far it's been... frankly, insane. I don't know if I love it or not, but I'm still reading, so that's something. It's just so... wackadoodle.
ledfloyd
10-09-2010, 12:12 AM
I'm picking up volumes six and seven of Buffy Season 8. So far it's been... frankly, insane. I don't know if I love it or not, but I'm still reading, so that's something. It's just so... wackadoodle.
it is quite wackadoodle but i've been enjoying it. volume 7 is fun.
Dead & Messed Up
10-09-2010, 01:27 AM
I was loving the episode "Ted" last night until...
...John Ritter became a robot...
...and then I was like, "Lame."
I was loving the episode "Ted" last night until...
...John Ritter became a robot...
...and then I was like, "Lame."
It's pretty silly, and so is the next, but then you get into some AWESOME stuff.
it is quite wackadoodle but i've been enjoying it. volume 7 is fun.
Interrupting volume seven with the following announcement:
PORN.
I may have to take a sharpie to this freaking book.
Updated with: man, this season 8 stuff is completely off the rails. I mean, just nuts. I honestly don't know if I like it or not.
ledfloyd
10-09-2010, 10:49 PM
Interrupting volume seven with the following announcement:
PORN.
I may have to take a sharpie to this freaking book.
haha i was going to tell you to look out for issue 34. i loved it... they're rather inventive no?
i intend to reread the whole thing when all the issues are available. i remember being really curious as to how the final volume was going to tie everything together. they definitely take advantage of having what amounts to an unlimited budget. it's interesting at the very least. and frequently funny.
Dead & Messed Up
11-10-2010, 05:51 AM
Finished Season 2. That was a very good ending.
I loved the antagonism between Buffy and Angelus. Had a delicious Batman/Joker vibe to it. His absolute glee at his villainy shows that Boreanaz isn't limited to mopery. Loved Willow's advancement, and the development of Oz, and, Christ, I hate Xander right now.
I'm kinda hooked. A few days there towards the end of the season, I couldn't wait to get home and watch more.
Irish
11-10-2010, 08:34 AM
I loved the antagonism between Buffy and Angelus.
Outside of some of the stuff he did in the later seasons of Angel, this is probably Whedon at his best.
I'm kinda hooked.
Oh man .. just wait.
In my opinion, Season 3 is when the show really starts to get good. I think you're gonna like it.
Dead & Messed Up
11-11-2010, 06:08 AM
In my opinion, Season 3 is when the show really starts to get good. I think you're gonna like it.
That's strange, because I'm enjoying the hell out of the show as is. I assume "gets good" means "graduates from awesome to super-awesome."
Posted some bloggery (http://horrorfilms101.blogspot.com) on Season 2.
That's strange, because I'm enjoying the hell out of the show as is. I assume "gets good" means "graduates from awesome to super-awesome."
Posted some bloggery (http://horrorfilms101.blospot.com) on Season 2.
Good thoughts.
And "super-awesome" is season five. :D
Lucky
11-13-2010, 12:21 AM
I am truly impressed by your write-ups. I wish I could write equally eloquent praise for them. I've read hundreds of blurbs of thoughts and reviews from both professional and amateur critics, but you manage to draw conclusions that feel fresh. Well done. Sincerely. I can't wait for you to continue so I can look forward to your season reviews.
Watashi
11-13-2010, 05:46 AM
I decided to take the plunge and watch this. I've never seen an episode before.
I'm five episodes into the first season. I want to make sweet sweet love to Willow
I decided to take the plunge and watch this. I've never seen an episode before.
I'm five episodes into the first season. I want to make sweet sweet love to Willow
Awesome! Keep us updated! I love first-timers.
As a disclaimer, the first season is easily the worst. It takes them awhile to find a tone that works for them, and even longer to figure out the special effects. Patience is rewarded.
And I have a leeetle bit of a girl-crush on Willow.
ledfloyd
11-13-2010, 02:48 PM
i'm feeling a strong urge to rewatch buffy.
WB is rebooting Buffy as a film without Whedon.
Disaster. (http://io9.com/5696522/its-really-happening-warner-brothers-reboots-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-without-joss-whedon)
Irish
11-22-2010, 10:53 PM
WB is rebooting Buffy as a film without Whedon.
Disaster. (http://io9.com/5696522/its-really-happening-warner-brothers-reboots-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-without-joss-whedon)
Whoa, wth? Who is this Whit Anderson? From IMDb, she has *no* writing credits at all.
That's just nutty.
[ETM]
11-22-2010, 10:54 PM
Good. It'll flop and no one will try for a third time.
Irish
11-22-2010, 11:53 PM
;302753']Good. It'll flop and no one will try for a third time.
If they have the stones to try variations of Hulk three times, I figured nothing will stop them for trying Buffy again and again.
That built-in fanbase is too big of a lure.
[ETM]
11-23-2010, 12:04 AM
Buffy has nowhere the draw of a major comic book superhero. And most ardent fans like Mara would rather not see a reboot, EVER.
Irish
11-23-2010, 12:18 AM
;302778']Buffy has nowhere the draw of a major comic book superhero. And most ardent fans like Mara would rather not see a reboot, EVER.
That depends on what you think of as a "major draw." On paper, and in our little internet bubble, Scott Pilgrim should have drawn big crowds. But it didn't.
Hulk or Green Lantern or whomever are "major draws," but only to a very specific audience.
The advantage of Buffy over Hulk is that a Buffy movie has a better chance of being a four-quadrant picture (ie, one that appeals to all major demographics).
To put it another way, another Hulk picture isn't ever going to appeal to 35 year old moms. But Buffy? That's a pretty even bet.
Buffy seems similar to Star Trek to me, a property which was kept going long after it should have ended based mostly on a rabid fanbase. (Same goes with Firefly, but that one is a form of science fiction, and sci-fi has a more limited appeal).
[ETM]
11-23-2010, 12:50 AM
On paper, and in our little internet bubble, Scott Pilgrim should have drawn big crowds. But it didn't.
I always thought it was ludicrous to expect any kind of success from the film.
Hulk or Green Lantern or whomever are "major draws," but only to a very specific audience.
Specific audience that keeps replenishing all the time, as the comics never cease to come out, and new fans are easily drawn into them. Buffy is a completely different beast which depends heavily on word-of-mouth and very specific pre-knowledge and certain requirements in taste etc.
The advantage of Buffy over Hulk is that a Buffy movie has a better chance of being a four-quadrant picture (ie, one that appeals to all major demographics).
To put it another way, another Hulk picture isn't ever going to appeal to 35 year old moms. But Buffy? That's a pretty even bet.
35 year old moms are not where the money is. Also consider the timeframe - Buffy aired before Twilight, True Blood, Underworld and the whole slew of lesser me-too vampire/werewolf/demon cash-ins. I think it just can't offer anything substantially new at this point and is in fact doomed.
Buffy seems similar to Star Trek to me, a property which was kept going long after it should have ended based mostly on a rabid fanbase. (Same goes with Firefly, but that one is a form of science fiction, and sci-fi has a more limited appeal).
Star Trek is a HUGE exception from the rule, and the Firefly comeback also failed in any measurable financial way.
I think it's important to note that people aren't fans of the characters as much as they are fans of Whedon-- we don't go around calling ourselves "Buffyites."
[ETM]
11-23-2010, 12:57 AM
I think it's important to note that people aren't fans of the characters as much as they are fans of Whedon-- we don't go around calling ourselves "Buffyites."
Exactly what I'm saying - it's a group within a group within a group. I mean, there are people on this site who can't stand anything Whedon has ever written. He's hardly widely popular.
The only I can think with a reboot is trying to market it to a larger audience, by pandering. And that is no bueno.
[ETM]
11-23-2010, 01:08 AM
The only I can think with a reboot is trying to market it to a larger audience, by pandering. And that is no bueno.
Indeed. Many have done the pandering bit rather well since Buffy was last seen.
Not to belabor the point, but... it's one thing to recast Buffy. But we're recasting Willow? Spike? GILES? FREAKING GILES ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Whoever tries to be the "new" Giles will earn my everlasting, scathing contempt.
But if they want to recast Angel I guess that's their choice. Did you know Nathan Fillion auditioned to be Angel? Let's just think about that for a moment.
Irish
11-23-2010, 01:12 AM
@mara & ETM - terrific, insightful points.
On the 35 year old moms: By themselves, I agree. But as part of the quadrant, they are gold. The 4-quad picture is the holy grail of movie production. Best recent example is something like Harry Potter.
On comics: True, but comics themselves have limited print runs and tiny distributions. At this point, I'd argue that Buffy is a better and more widely known property than Green Lantern, Arrow, or Hornet. (Our discussion gets weird too because Buffy "season 8" is now a comic partly penned by .. Joss Whedon).
On Whedon: You're right, Mara. My offhand guess: the guy's producing this don't realize it.
Irish
11-23-2010, 01:14 AM
Not to belabor the point, but... it's one thing to recast Buffy. But we're recasting Willow? Spike? GILES? FREAKING GILES ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Whoever tries to be the "new" Giles will earn my everlasting, scathing contempt.
They could do a "Young Indiana Jones" thing .. cast Buffy and her friends as tweens and Giles as a USC grad student! :D
Irish
11-23-2010, 01:15 AM
The only I can think with a reboot is trying to market it to a larger audience, by pandering. And that is no bueno.
Hmm maybe ... they managed to pander pretty well with Star Trek several times.
[ETM]
11-23-2010, 04:04 AM
Here's what Whedon had to say:
I'm glad you asked for my thoughts on the announcement of Buffy the cinema film. This is a sad, sad reflection on our times, when people must feed off the carcasses of beloved stories from their youths—just because they can't think of an original idea of their own, like I did with my Avengers idea that I made up myself.
Obviously I have strong, mixed emotions about something like this. My first reaction upon hearing who was writing it was, "Whit Stillman AND Wes Anderson? This is gonna be the most sardonically adorable movie EVER." Apparently I was misinformed. Then I thought, "I'll make a mint! This is worth more than all my Toy Story residuals combined!" Apparently I am seldom informed of anything. And possibly a little slow. But seriously, are vampires even popular any more?
I always hoped that Buffy would live on even after my death. But, you know, AFTER. I don't love the idea of my creation in other hands, but I'm also well aware that many more hands than mine went into making that show what it was. And there is no legal grounds for doing anything other than sighing audibly. I can't wish people who are passionate about my little myth ill. I can, however, take this time to announce that I'm making a Batman movie. Because there's a franchise that truly needs updating. So look for The Dark Knight Rises Way Earlier Than That Other One And Also More Cheaply And In Toronto, rebooting into a theater near you.
Leave me to my pain! Sincerely, Joss Whedon.
number8
11-23-2010, 04:29 AM
Perfect response, really.
Irish
11-23-2010, 04:37 AM
"Whit Stillman AND Wes Anderson? This is gonna be the most sardonically adorable movie EVER." Apparently I was misinformed.
:lol: Nice.
number8
11-23-2010, 03:35 PM
So this is her.
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2010/11/22/joss-who-meet-the-writer-of-the-new-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-film/
number8
11-23-2010, 03:48 PM
Oh, Boreanaz's reaction. (http://twitpic.com/39av51)
There seems to be an attempt to market her in the articles. Everyone keeps talking about her. And she's nobody.
number8
11-23-2010, 03:58 PM
Not to belabor the point, but... it's one thing to recast Buffy. But we're recasting Willow? Spike? GILES? FREAKING GILES ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Whoever tries to be the "new" Giles will earn my everlasting, scathing contempt.
Actually, here's the interesting part. It's unclear if they can use those characters, because they're not in the original movie, which is what the rights that was sold covers. I'm not sure, but Giles, Willow, etc. might be the property of FOX/Mutant Enemy. I'm still trying to figure this out.
Irish
11-23-2010, 04:05 PM
So this is her.
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2010/11/22/joss-who-meet-the-writer-of-the-new-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-film/
Still don't understand how someone with no writing credits whatsoever landed this gig.
Actually, here's the interesting part. It's unclear if they can use those characters, because they're not in the original movie, which is what the rights that was sold covers. I'm not sure, but Giles, Willow, etc. might be the property of FOX/Mutant Enemy. I'm still trying to figure this out.
Oh... right. The scoobies were Sunnydale stuff, and I think the film took place in Los Angeles. (I saw the movies in theaters, kids, which is why it took me so long to take the television series seriously. IT WAS AWFUL.)
She had a Watcher in the original film, so they may have a Giles-like character, but it will probably revert to the cheerleader-with-a-stake story of yore.
Which we all know was just... so... awesome.
You non-watchers of the show need to catch up so you can hate on this monstrosity with all the cool kids.
number8
11-23-2010, 04:24 PM
I don't really need to like Buffy to recognize this as a spectacularly awful idea.
Dead & Messed Up
11-23-2010, 05:00 PM
I've only been loving the show for a month or so. Is that enough time for me to pass judgment on this idea?
I've only been loving the show for a month or so. Is that enough time for me to pass judgment on this idea?
You tore through the first couple of seasons. You have rights.
Irish
11-24-2010, 02:14 AM
Okay, found out what I wanted to know: Anderson wrote a screenplay (spec?) called Need which sold earlier this year.
(I saw the movie in theaters, kids, which is why it took me so long to take the television series seriously. IT WAS AWFUL.)
Thought about rechecking this out, and no way will I make it past ten minutes. Really, really wretched.
Side note, though: Hilary Swank. Whoa.
An article on Cracked today is talking about injuries in film/television that are more serious than they are generally portrayed, and the "head injury" section mentions Giles specifically.
:lol:
"Well; now I know I'm back in America as I've been knocked unconscious."
And a list of the number of times Giles is knocked unconscious, taken from the internet:
[spoiler]1. The Witch - Catherine pushes a table against him
2. NKABOTFD - Andrew, the vampire, throws him into the crematory controls
3. The Pack - The evil zookeeper hits him in the gut with his staff and again on the back
4. Prophecy Girl - Buffy punches him
5. When She Was Bad - Vampires
6. Inca Mummy Girl - Ampata strangles him and then tosses him into the coffin
7. Bad Eggs - After killing the Bezoar, everyone is unconscious
8. Passion - After going after Angelus for killing Jenny, he's unconscious for a few moments.
9. Becoming Part 1 - Dru's gang knocks him out
10. Beauty and the Beasts - Buffy accidentally shoots him with a tranquilizer gun
11. Homecoming - Candy and Lyle Gorch knock him out
12. Revelations - Gwendolyn hits him over the head
13. Gingerbread - MOO uses chloroform
14. Pangs - ??? Did the warrior knock him out after hitting his head repeatedly against the wall? Cause, I couldn't tell.
15. Doomed - Well, those demons whaled on him pretty good. Might have been knocked out.
16. Buffy Vs. Dracula - Giles falls through the door and is knocked unconscious until Dracula's "ladies" awaken him.
17. Flooded - When the M'Fashnik Demon knocked him out: "Well; now I know I'm back in America as I've been knocked unconscious."
18. Tabula Rasa - Giles and the rest of the gang are knocked out by Willow's spell.
19. Grave - Giles passes out after his magical battle with Dark Willow.
number8
12-03-2010, 01:15 AM
Uh, speaking of... Major spoilers for the latest issue of Season 8.
So Giles is dead and Willow is no longer a witch.
Pissed, Mara?
Uh, speaking of... Major spoilers for the latest issue of Season 8.
So Giles is dead and Willow is no longer a witch.
Pissed, Mara?
I hadn't read it yet, but I'm so baffled by the season 8 comics that I can barely muster a reaction. I guess they are canon, but they don't feel canon.
Thirdmango
12-11-2010, 12:33 AM
So I've begun to realize. I am a TV whore obviously, but in the future I want girlfriends and eventually a wife who also likes TV, and the logical conclusion to this is every girl that likes TV as a Medium loves Buffy. Since you know Wheadon is really good at writing female characters and all. I should probably get back into watching this, you know, for the future. :lol:
So I've begun to realize. I am a TV whore obviously, but in the future I want girlfriends and eventually a wife who also likes TV, and the logical conclusion to this is every girl that likes TV as a Medium loves Buffy. Since you know Wheadon is really good at writing female characters and all. I should probably get back into watching this, you know, for the future. :lol:
I'm finding this post confusing. Are you proposing to me?
:lol:
Yes, watch the show. Where did you leave off?
I'm really enjoying the logic of not being able to get married until you watch the show. It would make a great excuse for nosy relatives.
"So, thinking of settling down anytime soon?"
"Sheesh, Uncle Alan, I'm only on Season 5."
Lucky
12-11-2010, 01:02 AM
I just read an article that suggested Brittany from Glee as the next Buffy.
I don't want to see the character of Buffy retread to the first movie version, although Heather Morris is not an awful choice. I just worry they'll make some sick Brittany-Buffy hybrid.
[ETM]
12-11-2010, 01:07 AM
I just read an article that suggested Brittany from Glee as the next Buffy.
Ouch. She's okay as Brittany, but I think she'd be horrible as anyone else.
I think Heather Morris could have a legitimate career as a pop star.
And I'm so horrified by the reboot that I don't care who they cast. Miley Cyrus can take out vamps with her chipmunk teeth and I wouldn't care.
Dead & Messed Up
12-11-2010, 01:26 AM
I'm through "The Zeppo," which carries some of the same deconstructive brilliance of "Jose Chung's 'From Outer Space'" of X-Files. I'm normally not a fan of Xander episodes, which makes the episode's success all the more impressive.
Irish
12-11-2010, 01:29 AM
I'm through "The Zeppo," which carries some of the same deconstructive brilliance of "Jose Chung's 'From Outer Space'" of X-Files. I'm normally not a fan of Xander episodes, which makes the episode's success all the more impressive.
One of my favorite early episodes. It's similar to the Star Trek: Next Gen episode "Lower Decks," where you see the show's world through the eyes of what would otherwise be supporting characters.
One thing -- and this is nitpicky as hell -- but it's always bugged me about the episode, and Whedon's writing in general: No way in hell someone like Cordelia knows who the Marx Brothers are, much less Zeppo. Whedon is great with verbal gymnastics, but his sometimes willingness to throw character under the bus for the sake of dialogue bugs me.
I'm through "The Zeppo," which carries some of the same deconstructive brilliance of "Jose Chung's 'From Outer Space'" of X-Files. I'm normally not a fan of Xander episodes, which makes the episode's success all the more impressive.
Actually, a few of my favorite episodes are Xander-centric, including this one. He's our everyman, and through his eyes we are permitted to mock what we are not normally permitted to mock: Buffy and Angel's angsty arguments, end-of-the-world profundity, etc.
And your thoughts on Band Candy? Because I love me some Band Candy.
Dead & Messed Up
12-11-2010, 01:51 AM
One of my favorite early episodes. It's similar to the Star Trek: Next Gen episode "Lower Decks," where you see the show's world through the eyes of what would otherwise be supporting characters.
One thing -- and this is nitpicky as hell -- but it's always bugged me about the episode, and Whedon's writing in general: No way in hell someone like Cordelia knows who the Marx Brothers are, much less Zeppo. Whedon is great with verbal gymnastics, but his sometimes willingness to throw character under the bus for the sake of dialogue bugs me.
She's also familiar with Jimmy Olsen, which seemed a bit off to me, but I brushed it aside. It's possible that she's absorbed some of Xander's geek knowledge.
I rarely revisit Season 2, but I have a blanket that urgently needs to be finished, hopefully by Christmas. So I'm starting with Surprise... gonna hit the good stuff.
Lucky
12-12-2010, 03:37 AM
Since my top episode list will largely echo the majority's favorites, I'm going to start doing my research for a Top 100 Buffy Moments List. This "research" involves watching the series in FF on DVD to make sure I'm not forgetting anything.
ledfloyd
12-12-2010, 03:57 AM
I rarely revisit Season 2, but I have a blanket that urgently needs to be finished, hopefully by Christmas. So I'm starting with Surprise... gonna hit the good stuff.
but you're skipping inca mummy girl, and ted!
Winston*
12-12-2010, 04:56 AM
I hadn't read it yet, but I'm so baffled by the season 8 comics that I can barely muster a reaction. I guess they are canon, but they don't feel canon.
Yeah I read a couple of issues and it just reads like fan fiction.
but you're skipping inca mummy girl, and ted!
OH NOES!!! What will I do without "Some Assembly Required" and "Bad Eggs"???
If the first half of Season 2 had been anything like the second half, it would have been one of the strongest seasons.
Yeah I read a couple of issues and it just reads like fan fiction.
Admittedly clever and ambitious fan fiction, but yes, I agree.
Since my top episode list will largely echo the majority's favorites, I'm going to start doing my research for a Top 100 Buffy Moments List. This "research" involves watching the series in FF on DVD to make sure I'm not forgetting anything.
This is a great idea. I tried to do something similar when I was first watching it, but my list would have changed by now. There are some fantastic moments in mediocre episodes, and they get overlooked in "best of" lists. (Example: Spike's "impotence" moment with Willow in "The Initiative.")
ledfloyd
12-12-2010, 03:37 PM
OH NOES!!! What will I do without "Some Assembly Required" and "Bad Eggs"???
If the first half of Season 2 had been anything like the second half, it would have been one of the strongest seasons.
and reptile boy!
it has some strong points though. i like when she was bad, halloween, lie to me and what's my line. school hard and the dark age aren't awful either.
Lucky
12-12-2010, 03:58 PM
This is a great idea. I tried to do something similar when I was first watching it, but my list would have changed by now. There are some fantastic moments in mediocre episodes, and they get overlooked in "best of" lists. (Example: Spike's "impotence" moment with Willow in "The Initiative.")
Exactly. Even the lesser eps usually have a moment where they can shine pretty bright.
and reptile boy!
it has some strong points though. i like when she was bad, halloween, lie to me and what's my line. school hard and the dark age aren't awful either.
I have a soft spot of School Hard. That soft spot is Spike-related.
Dead & Messed Up
12-12-2010, 10:33 PM
Through "Dopplegangland." Not really onboard with
Faith going to the Dark Side
but two Willows in a scene together does strange things to me. Strange, wonderful things.
Through "Dopplegangland." Not really onboard with
Faith going to the Dark Side
but two Willows in a scene together does strange things to me. Strange, wonderful things.
J'adore Dopplegangland. You forget how good of an actress Aly is until you see her in multiple parts like this. Plus, it's laugh-out-loud funny and actually hints at a number of storylines that will be explored in the future.
Faith... Faith... Faith.
Every once in awhile I consider going back and doing a write-up of Faith's heroic journey, like I did with Buffy. Because her journey is nothing like Buffy's, but is still really quite fascinating. Buffy is the hero, Faith is the anti-hero.
Okay, kiddos, I'm tired and mildly sick and am therefore feeling rather silly.
Just for funsies I'm going to be doing a mini-thread-within-a-thread in here. It's not enough to justify a full thread, but it's amusing enough to me that I feel the need to post it.
I'll try to spoiler anything sensitive, but I'm not covering serious plot points.
YOU TOO CAN FIGHT LIKE A SLAYER!
Not all of us can make weapons out of fences, frying pans, pool cues, and autopsy tools, but that doesn't mean you can't kick undead booty like a pro!
Consider...
1. Mr. Pointy
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/BecomingI_604.jpg
An extra-special stake with an extra-precious name!
Kendra: Dis is my lucky stake. I have killed many vampires wit it. I call it Mr. Pointy.
BUT CAN YOU BUY IT?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Mr-Pointy_In-Case.jpg
Of course you can! (http://toynewsi.com/news.php?catid=168&itemid=9978)
AND IT CAN BE YOURS FOR THE BARGAIN PRICE OF: $75
2. FAITH'S KNIFE
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Choices023.jpg
Faith: This is a thing of beauty, Boss.
This is a real knife, not a prop, made by Gil Hibben. He called it "The Jackal." Apparently, the BtVS people just picked it out of a catalog. Of course, it became insanely popular after that.
BUT CAN YOU BUY IT?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/tzrg-1166419-1.jpg
Of course you can! (http://www.onlineauction.com/index.php?page=auction:view_it em&auction_id=1166419) It's out of general production but you can still buy it as a collectible.
AND IT CAN BE YOURS FOR THE BARGAIN PRICE OF: $100
3. HUNGA MUNGA
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Anne_433.jpg
Dear, sweet heaven, it is pointy in so many places!!! This weapon only showed up once, and it was so terrifically awesome that it made the credits for about three years, and even made a cameo in Angel.
BUT CAN YOU BUY IT?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/0355.jpg
Um... well... sort (http://www.mambele.be/knife_detail.php?tribe=®ion=&name=&jczn=Throwing&met=s&number=0355&rowno=15) of (http://cgi.ebay.com/CAMEROUN-old-african-throwing-knife-ancien-couteau-SARA-/300466050612?pt=LH_DefaultDoma in_0&hash=item45f52c1634).
Most of the hunga mungas out there are antiques and museum pieces, so it's not like you can just buy it on a fan site.
However, this similar beauty (http://eriksedge.com/product.php?id=50&title=Azande_Throwing_Knife_#2 ) FOR THE BARGAIN PRICE OF: $800
NOTE: This isn't an axe. It's a throwing knife. It is FLYING FATALITY!
4. THE SCYTHE, AKA Mʔ
Okay, this one could possibly maybe perhaps be considered a little bit of a spoiler. I'll hide the picture, but I'm not going to say what is DONE with it, so only avoid if you're super sensitive.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Buffy720_780.jpg
Faith: It's old. It's strong and it feels like like it's mine. I guess that means it's yours.
And this one actually is a spoiler:
Buffy: It slices, dices and makes julienne preacher!
BUT CAN YOU BUY IT?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/31v3LdhRfKL_SL500_AA300_.jpg
(Just another picture, not a big spoiler)
Of course you can! (http://www.amazon.com/Buffy-Slayers-Scythe-Full-Size-Replica/dp/B00117B3YS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292253748&sr=8-1)
This one actually was a prop, so it's easily marketed.
AND IT CAN BE YOURS FOR THE BARGAIN PRICE OF: $300
BUT WHAT IF YOU ARE TOO POVERTY-STRICKEN TO SPEND HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS ON WEAPONS?
Well, have we got a bargain for you!!! (http://compare.ebay.com/like/200322531973?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&rvr_id=184121281406&crlp=1_263602_309572&UA=WXF%3F&GUID=e05627d412c0a02652c22f62f f983f6a&itemid=200322531973&ff4=263602_309572)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/buffy-accessory-pack.jpg
You can get the Slayer Action Figure Accessory Pack (Weapons) and enact your own slayer dramas!
The weapons included are:
Starting at top left, going clockwise:
Weapons Chest
Rocket Launcher (The Judge, Season 2)
Tranquilizer Gun (Werewolves, Oz, Season 2 & Others)
Sword of Angelus (Angel, Season 2)
Frying Pan (Ted, Season 2)
A stake made out of a baseball bat (???)
The Glove of Something-or-Other (Gwendolyn Post, Season 2)
Hunga Munga (Season 3)
Crossbow
All done!
*runs away giggling*
Irish
12-13-2010, 05:13 PM
All done!
*runs away giggling*
You get stranger and stranger every day.
Love these posts, though.
You get stranger and stranger every day.
Love these posts, though.
It's cyclical. You just haven't noticed because you're new.
Unless you're actually the alter-ego of someone who has been posting awhile, in which case... I got nothing.
Irish
12-13-2010, 05:44 PM
It's cyclical. You just haven't noticed because you're new.
There's a couple of observations and jokes in my head right now -- one of them vaguely has to do with lythancropy -- but I'll bite my tongue and refrain from making them.
Unless you're actually the alter-ego of someone who has been posting awhile, in which case... I got nothing.
I've decided that if I'm going to be an alter-ego, then I choose to be Spinal's alter-ego. Maybe I won't get yelled as much now.
[ETM]
12-13-2010, 08:19 PM
You get stranger and stranger every day.
I think you meant "awesome" there.
;309102']I think you meant "awesome" there.
I get stranger and stranger every awesome?
Confession: I kind of a little bit want a scythe.
ledfloyd
12-13-2010, 10:37 PM
Confession: I kind of a little bit want a scythe.
you should get one. so i can patiently await the 'baltimore woman takes out intruder with buffy prop' headlines.
[ETM]
12-13-2010, 10:39 PM
I get stranger and stranger every awesome?
You get awesome and awesome all the awesome. With a scythe.
;309150']You get awesome and awesome all the awesome. With a scythe.
Aaaand sigged, since that may be the greatest compliment I've ever received.
[ETM]
12-13-2010, 11:36 PM
Aaaand sigged, since that may be the greatest compliment I've ever received.
I certainly mean it. :pritch:
Sheesh, "Amends" is self-indulgent nonsense. And Buffy's hair looks terrible.
The worst episode in season 3.
Dead & Messed Up
12-23-2010, 11:53 PM
Sheesh, "Amends" is self-indulgent nonsense. And Buffy's hair looks terrible.
The worst episode in season 3.
Maybe, but I kinda like the indulgence towards the end. My sentimental streak got the best of me.
Also, I just finished Season Three, and it was awesome. Best season yet. I take back anything I said about disliking Faith's arc.
I was fully prepared for the Mayor to be manipulating Faith, but he genuinely liked the girl! And she genuinely loved him. Harry Groener made Mayor Wilkins into something very special - he might be even more frightening than Angelus, since there's a part of him that's kind and true.
Woohoo!
Lucky
12-24-2010, 03:30 AM
I like Amends, too. The show doesn't get oversentimental like that too often so I can accept moments like the cheesy snowfall.
Also, I just finished Season Three, and it was awesome. Best season yet. I take back anything I said about disliking Faith's arc.
I was fully prepared for the Mayor to be manipulating Faith, but he genuinely liked the girl! And she genuinely loved him. Harry Groener made Mayor Wilkins into something very special - he might be even more frightening than Angelus, since there's a part of him that's kind and true.
Woohoo!
I think the Mayor may be my favorite villain on the show. The fact that he's affable and devoted to Faith is really scary and oddly powerful. (If I ever write my paper, I'm going to compare her and the Mayor's relationship to Buffy and Giles.)
And "Graduation Day" was a whizz-bang ending.
Season three might be my second favorite, after five. I think five is awesome.
Qrazy
12-24-2010, 11:19 AM
I started watching this show. Worrying about Buffy's dating life is turning me gay. The end.
ledfloyd
12-24-2010, 01:22 PM
if worrying about buffy's dating life is gay i don't want to be straight. how far in are you?
Qrazy
12-24-2010, 08:47 PM
if worrying about buffy's dating life is gay i don't want to be straight. how far in are you?
Mid-way through the second season.
ledfloyd
12-24-2010, 09:47 PM
Mid-way through the second season.
just getting to the really good stuff then.
Qrazy
01-01-2011, 09:47 PM
Doublemeat Palace is a terrible episode. It makes me want to take a shower, with extra scrubbing on the eye parts.
I thought it was quite good. It nails the desperation in Buffy's life and really cuts into what it would be like for someone in her situation who just needs to make ends meet. What do you dislike about it?
I thought it was quite good. It nails the desperation in Buffy's life and really cuts into what it would be like for someone in her situation who just needs to make ends meet. What do you dislike about it?
Wait-- did you jump from season 2 to season 6 in a week? Because, wow.
Lucky
01-01-2011, 10:09 PM
Maybe, but I kinda like the indulgence towards the end. My sentimental streak got the best of me.
Also, I just finished Season Three, and it was awesome. Best season yet. I take back anything I said about disliking Faith's arc.
I was fully prepared for the Mayor to be manipulating Faith, but he genuinely liked the girl! And she genuinely loved him. Harry Groener made Mayor Wilkins into something very special - he might be even more frightening than Angelus, since there's a part of him that's kind and true.
Woohoo!
I strongly urge you to write a review on Season 3. I like reading your stuff.
Qrazy
01-01-2011, 10:17 PM
An interesting article on how Beer Bad (http://tv.swingthesickle.com/ststv/Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer/Season_4/05.review) went so wildly wrong.
"Cavemen are a hard thing to pull off, but I am sure a creative writer and director could pull it off. We were led to believe that the cursed beer made the college students revert to early man. We were never led to believe that there was another aspect of the curse that simultaneously made them stupid. Early man was not stupid. God created early man exactly like you and I with the same capacity for intelligence. The fact that we have fancy electronics today is not a sign that people were stupid 1,000 years ago. It is a sign that since people were smart enough to write down what they learned 1,000 years ago, we have had the opportunity to build on that knowledge for a 1,000 years. The make-up department did not even do a good job making Buffy look like a caveman--I mean, cavewoman. She looked like Christina Aguilera...having a good hair day. "
No.
Qrazy
01-01-2011, 10:18 PM
Wait-- did you jump from season 2 to season 6 in a week? Because, wow.
I have an addictive personality. =)
I am... very impressed. Any thoughts on seasons 2, 3, 4 or 5?
My problem with Doublemeat Palace is that it's just sort of dirty and hopeless. And the dead-eyed sex with Spike in the filthy alley is a little obvious for me-- I am degraded, this is what I am now, etc., etc.
And the alien popping out of the lady's head and eating everything is just gross and silly.
But I'm glad that the show deals with financial realities of being the slayer, and shows how lost Buffy is at this point. It's important to her self-flagellating arc. I just don't really enjoy it.
Qrazy
01-02-2011, 12:31 AM
Oh, I see. I've come to a certain amount of peace with the fight scene (she couldn't get one day off from the most thankless job ever?) but I agree the episode probably could have been better without it.
I do like the moment when Buffy is fighting for her life but Dawn can't take her eyes of her mother's hair.
I agree with your initial impulse. The vampire scene is needed for the bolded reason. I also liked that the vamp was naked.
Qrazy
01-02-2011, 12:38 AM
That's not the plothole that bothers me.
The plothole that bothers me is that everyone is shocked-- SHOCKED-- that the key has taken human form, but the entire ritual centers around blood. She has to bleed-- how were they going to do that if the key was a blob of green energy? It doesn't make sense.
My opinion is that the ritual centers around blood because she was human. That is to say... 'how do we deal with this key? in this case we use her blood'. If the key were a potato we would make latkas or something. I think if she hadn't been human it would have been a different ritual.
Actually no, nevermind, it's stupid.
Qrazy
01-02-2011, 12:39 AM
I am... very impressed. Any thoughts on seasons 2, 3, 4 or 5?
My problem with Doublemeat Palace is that it's just sort of dirty and hopeless. And the dead-eyed sex with Spike in the filthy alley is a little obvious for me-- I am degraded, this is what I am now, etc., etc.
And the alien popping out of the lady's head and eating everything is just gross and silly.
But I'm glad that the show deals with financial realities of being the slayer, and shows how lost Buffy is at this point. It's important to her self-flagellating arc. I just don't really enjoy it.
Perhaps because I took a year off after my freshman year and spent some of that time as a waiter in a chain restaurant it connects with me more.
Perhaps because I took a year off after my freshman year and spent some of that time as a waiter in a chain restaurant it connects with me more.
I suspect the writer had probably worked fast food at some point.
Have you seen the next episode, "Dead Things" yet? It's not my favorite of the season, but there's a fantastic scene between Buffy and Tara that, for me, sums up the hopeless emotionality of Buffy's season 6 arc. It's very well done.
Qrazy
01-02-2011, 12:53 AM
I suspect the writer had probably worked fast food at some point.
Have you seen the next episode, "Dead Things" yet? It's not my favorite of the season, but there's a fantastic scene between Buffy and Tara that, for me, sums up the hopeless emotionality of Buffy's season 6 arc. It's very well done.
Yeah, good scene.
ledfloyd
01-02-2011, 02:54 AM
I have an addictive personality. =)
buffy addiction is hard to kick.
also, i've never gotten the hate for doublemeat palace. i chalk it up to the few months i spent working at mcdonald's when i was 16. it's not one of my favorite episodes but they capture the milieu rather well.
Qrazy
01-02-2011, 03:03 AM
buffy addiction is hard to kick.
also, i've never gotten the hate for doublemeat palace. i chalk it up to the few months i spent working at mcdonald's when i was 16. it's not one of my favorite episodes but they capture the milieu rather well.
Yeah, the manager who's been there forever. The training video. The mindless automaton set up to the food production.
Qrazy
01-02-2011, 05:19 AM
Dawn in Season 7 is insufferable. She has to go.
Dawn in Season 7 is insufferable. She has to go.
I've thought a lot about this. As a character, I'm not crazy about Dawn. And I really dislike the actress-- it seems like she spent most of seasons six and seven just shrieking and whining.
What I do like about Dawn is how she changes Buffy as a character. Until she has a sister (and especially until she is responsible for protecting and raising her sister) she is still a child, and having someone rely on her forces Buffy to grow up a little.
Also, having Dawn in the picture changes the romantic dynamic of the show. That's when Buffy stops having a boy of the week, and a constant stream of boyfriends. Dawn becomes her primary relationship, the person she will live and die for. And, frankly, I prefer that "family" feeling, since it mirrors the dynamic of the Scoobie gang, of Giles as Big Papa Wolf, etc.
Qrazy
01-02-2011, 03:25 PM
I've thought a lot about this. As a character, I'm not crazy about Dawn. And I really dislike the actress-- it seems like she spent most of seasons six and seven just shrieking and whining.
What I do like about Dawn is how she changes Buffy as a character. Until she has a sister (and especially until she is responsible for protecting and raising her sister) she is still a child, and having someone rely on her forces Buffy to grow up a little.
Also, having Dawn in the picture changes the romantic dynamic of the show. That's when Buffy stops having a boy of the week, and a constant stream of boyfriends. Dawn becomes her primary relationship, the person she will live and die for. And, frankly, I prefer that "family" feeling, since it mirrors the dynamic of the Scoobie gang, of Giles as Big Papa Wolf, etc.
Sure, but she needed to be used better in season 7. I didn't mind her in 5 or 6.
Qrazy
01-03-2011, 04:47 AM
Yeah, season seven was garbage. The final episode had a couple redeeming moments but gah.
ledfloyd
01-03-2011, 05:55 AM
i wouldn't go as far as calling it garbage, but season 1 is the only one i like less. i'm not a huge fan of the finale but i like the nathan fillion arc that precedes it.
so you watched the entire series in what? 10 days?
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