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ledfloyd
05-08-2010, 06:32 PM
i read through that plotline last night. i think it works. we'll have to see where the last 5 issues go. it's certainly the biggest stretch of the series but it's reasonably well explained.
i read through that plotline last night. i think it works. we'll have to see where the last 5 issues go. it's certainly the biggest stretch of the series but it's reasonably well explained.
Do you have a link? I've read up to volume five or something.
ledfloyd
05-09-2010, 03:38 AM
Do you have a link? I've read up to volume five or something.
i uh, obtained it from a... black market source.
Hot damn, "Once More with Feeling" is awesome. Sometimes I forget how awesome it is.
ledfloyd
05-10-2010, 07:06 PM
Hot damn, "Once More with Feeling" is awesome. Sometimes I forget how awesome it is.
anya singing about bunnies gets me every time.
anya singing about bunnies gets me every time.
"It was like we were being watched...like there was a wall missing in our apartment. Like there were only three walls and not a fourth wall!"
I love meta stuff.
Kurosawa Fan
05-24-2010, 04:37 PM
Psst. Helpless was pretty great, minus the Angel stuff. Very interested to see what happens with Giles. Now on to The Zeppo.
:pritch:
Psst. Helpless was pretty great, minus the Angel stuff. Very interested to see what happens with Giles.
The best things about Helpless are the father/daughter stuff with Buffy & Giles, and Buffy running down the street crying for help like a little girl. Disorienting stuff.
Now on to The Zeppo.
It's actually a favorite out of sheer silliness. Love.
Kurosawa Fan
05-24-2010, 06:29 PM
It's actually a favorite out of sheer silliness. Love.
It was great. Just when I thought I'd had enough of Xander.
It was great. Just when I thought I'd had enough of Xander.
NEVAH! My write-up from my top list:
13. The Zeppo (3.13)
Written by Dan Vebber and Directed by James Whitmore Jr.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Zeppo112.jpg
Buffy: And, you know, with the pain and the death, maybe you shouldn't be leaping into the fray like that. Maybe you should be... fray adjacent.
Xander: Excuse me? Who, at a crucial moment, distracted the lead demon by allowing her to pummel him about the head?
Summary: There's an apocalypse, or something. Anyway, Xander is trying to figure out his self-worth in relation to the Scooby Gang. Also, Faith boinks him.
I just realized that all three episodes where the main three teenagers have sex for the first time made my list. Is that weird? I didn't mean to do that.
Why I love it: I have a soft spot for Xander-centric episodes. (There are three on this list.) I know that there are fans of the show that never really warmed up to Xander, and that baffles me. Besides being a very charming and likeable character, he serves an important dramatic function by being the everyman in extraordinary situations. As an audience, we need to have one person without superpowers to represent us in the scenario. "Yeah, I'd probably be getting knocked out right about now, too."
He is occasionally derided, like in this episode, for being useless. But doesn't the fact that he doesn't have magic, or super-strength, or fighting skills make him all the braver? He never runs away, despite being the least equipped to deal with the supernatural. Go Xander go.
Also, this episode very cleverly mocks the conventions of the regular BtVS storylines. Everything is dramatic and life-threatening, but Xander is kind of wandering in and out of it without being connected to it. Buffy's heated, emotional, weepy argument with Angel is the same heated, emotional, weepy argument they have every few episodes this season, but this time we're allowed to laugh about it.
I also love that they never tell us what happens in the final battle. They occasionally allude to it in later episodes, but never clarify. Good times.
The next episode is somewhere on my top list, too.
Kurosawa Fan
05-26-2010, 04:15 PM
I was less impressed with Bad Girls. Buffy's behavior seemed to come from nowhere. Outside of the pivotal moment with Faith, I thought it was solid, but nothing special. I did enjoy watching the new watcher get abused, but thought they took the easy way out with his cowardice.
I was less impressed with Bad Girls. Buffy's behavior seemed to come from nowhere. Outside of the pivotal moment with Faith, I thought it was solid, but nothing special. I did enjoy watching the new watcher get abused, but thought they took the easy way out with his cowardice.
It starts taking us in some interesting directions with Faith. And Wesley is one of my favorite minor characters. My write-up:
25. Bad Girls (3.14)
Written by Douglas Petrie, Directed by Michael Lange
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/BadGirls282.jpg
Wesley: Are you not used to taking orders?
Buffy: Whenever Giles sends me out on a mission he always says please. And afterwards I get a cookie.
Summary: When a new Watcher arrives, Wesley Wyndam-Price, Buffy joins Faith in her more rebellious ways, until Faith goes too far.
Why I love it: If my Faith's Journey paper ever gets written, this episode will be pivotal. This is a major turning point for her, and also for Buffy, who has toyed around with the "bad girl" mentality before without any serious consequences.
It's also a character-changing episode for Giles, who has always been shown as the stuffy, by-the-book reaction to the younger, wilder characters. In this episode, though, Wesley shows us that Giles was never stuffy at all. WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT STUFFY WAS YET. Giles is, in fact, snarky and subversive. He has been on the front lines, elbow-deep in gore, while the Council has been lamenting the inconvenience of dust on all their books.
And while we are all in love with Angel-era, fully-fleshed-out Wesley, I have a soft spot for his shallow, deeply annoying character in BtVS. He is a perfect foil for Giles, particularly in the scene where they are both captured and brought to Balthazar.
Wesley: Oh, God! Oh, God!
Giles: It doesn't seem too promising, does it?
Wesley: Stay calm, Mr. Giles. We have to stay calm.
Giles: Well, thank God you're here. I was planning to panic.
Balthazar: You know what I want.
Giles: If it's for me to scrub those hard-to-reach areas, I'd like to request you kill me now.
Wesley: Are you out of your mind? This is hardly the time for games!
Giles: Why not? They're going to torture us to death anyway.
Really, though, this episode is Buffy and Faith's show. If you have superpowers, are you contrained by the rules? Are you Batman, or are you Superman?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/BadGirls410.jpg
Faith: When are ya gonna get this, B? Life for a Slayer is very simple: want... take... have.
I'll give you a moment to drink in the awesome.
You're two episodes away from your first foray into my top ten list. I'm giddy.
Also, that episode is where Alexis Denisoff first met Alyson Hannigan, before he married her and put a baby inside her. Which is kind of sweet.
Kurosawa Fan
05-26-2010, 05:12 PM
Is it bad that I hate Angel? Because I do. A lot. I hate his pouty mug. I just want to punch him every time I see him.
Consequences was good. I like the darker direction of the show. I'm looking forward to seeing how they wrap this season up.
Is it bad that I hate Angel? Because I do. A lot. I hate his pouty mug. I just want to punch him every time I see him.
I find Angel really annoying. He's an interesting counterpoint to later Buffy romances, and factors into her development, but... he's so sulky.
In his spin-off (which happens after the season 3 finale) they let him lighten up a little bit and be funny, or at least let him make fun of his dour tragedy-of-the-world persona. Even so, I just don't find him a particularly compelling lead.
Kurosawa Fan
05-26-2010, 05:25 PM
Yeah, there's no way I'm watching Angel. Not a chance.
I should perhaps mention that I really enjoy watching Angel and Spike interact. They play wonderfully off each other.
Kurosawa Fan
05-26-2010, 05:28 PM
I should perhaps mention that I really enjoy watching Angel and Spike interact. They play wonderfully off each other.
*sigh*
I want my Spike back. The show isn't the same without him.
*sigh*
I want my Spike back. The show isn't the same without him.
Then I shall post this cut shot from Angel of Spike and Dru in Italy in the 50's. Because it's awesome.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/girlquestion_064.jpg
Kurosawa Fan
05-26-2010, 06:07 PM
:cool:
Seriously though, I can't wait to get to the seasons that include Spike again.
Seriously though, I can't wait to get to the seasons that include Spike again.
He shows up within the first few episodes of season 4. I really miss him in season 3, too.
Kurosawa Fan
05-26-2010, 08:03 PM
Doppelgangland was pretty fun. Inconsequential, aside from the lesbian implications, but fun nonetheless. There were a few very funny moments, especially Giles' explanation of why there was another Willow, followed by Xander saying "Can you believe the Council let this guy get away?" Funny stuff.
I love Doppelgangland. It just gets funnier and funnier every time I see it.
7. Doppelgangland (3.16)
Written & Directed by Joss Whedon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Doppelgangland431.jpg
Anya: Vampires. Always thinking with your teeth.
Willow: She bothered me. She's so weak and accommodating.
She's always letting people walk all over her, and then she gets cranky with her friends for no reason. I just couldn't let her live.
Summary: Anya tries to retrieve her amulet (lost in "The Wish") and accidentally snatches Vampire Willow out of another reality.
Why I love it: This is the highest-ranking episode on my list that got on solely by being hilarious.
Vampire Willow is my favorite bit character in the entire series, tied with [EDITED FOR SPOILERS]. This episode is a sister piece with "The Wish," but the second incarnation is actually better; funnier and more engaging.
I always enjoy it when the show gives us insight into the character's relationships without Buffy being involved. I think this episode is the first when we really see that Giles loves Willow, and she's not just the friend of his Slayer. The scene when Buffy, Xander and Giles think Willow is dead is a terrific example of dramatic irony. We see them grieving, but we're not sad because, as an audience, we know she's fine. Pay particular attention to Giles' reactions:
Xander: (takes a breath) This isn't real.
Buffy: (numbly) I can't feel anything. Arms, legs, anything.
Giles: She was truly the finest of all of us.
Xander: Way better than me.
Giles: (nods decisively) Much, much better.
Xander: It's all my fault.
Buffy: (despairingly) No, it's me. I-it's me. I'm the one that called
her reliable. She must have gone out and gotten attacked, which she
never would have done if I hadn't have called her reliable. And now my
best friend is...
Willow walks in and finds them there.
Willow: (curiously) What's going on?
They all look up surprised. Xander lifts his cross in defense. Willow
notices their sad faces and is amazed at their expressions.
Willow: Jeez, who died?
She notices just how deeply sad they really are and realizes she may
have gotten it right.
Willow: (almost panicked) Oh, God! Who died?
Xander jumps up and gets in Willow's face with the cross.
Xander: Back! Get back, demon!
She doesn't cower from it, but instead shows deep concern for him,
thinking maybe he's flipped out or something. Xander shakes the cross as
though it were broken and puts it back in her face. Buffy and Giles
notice that she's not frightened of the cross, and slowly approach.
Buffy: (breathlessly) Willow, you're alive?
Willow: (puzzled) Aren't I usually?
Without any further hesitation, Buffy runs the two steps to her best
friend and hugs her hard and close.
Buffy: Oh!
Willow is surprised, and lets out a little groan from the tightness of
the embrace. An instant later Xander is also hugging her for all he's
worth.
Willow: (wonderingly) I love you guys, too?
The hug goes on for a long moment before it gets too intense for Willow.
Willow: Okay. Oxygen becoming an issue.
They both let go, smiling at her with tears in their eyes. She smiles
back, but still doesn't know what to make of it all.
Willow: Giles, what's going on with these...
Before she can finish she finds herself being warmly embraced again by
the normally reserved Watcher.
Willow: Oh!
Again she groans from the tightness of the hug, and Giles quickly
releases her, a bit embarrassed at his emotional display.
Giles: Oh. Sorry. (backs away)
Willow: (still wondering) It's really nice that you guys missed me.
(wide-eyed) Say, you all didn't happen to do a bunch of drugs, did ya?
There are so many funny scenes in this episode, I wouldn't know where to start. Vampire Willow beating up Percy the Jock. Willow pretending to be Vampire Willow. Vampire Willow pretending to be Willow. Epic farce, all around.
Interesting Tidbits:
This is Anya's second appearance. [EDITED FOR SPOILERS]
This is the first time Willow gives any hint about possibly being a lesbian. Vampire Willow is aggressively bisexual, which regular Willow finds unnerving.
Willow: It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.
[EDITED FOR SPOILERS]
[ETM]
05-27-2010, 10:00 PM
Then I shall post this cut shot from Angel of Spike and Dru in Italy in the 50's. Because it's awesome.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/girlquestion_064.jpg
I was always wondering where that avatar came from. Amazing.
ledfloyd
05-28-2010, 12:34 AM
Is it bad that I hate Angel? Because I do. A lot. I hate his pouty mug. I just want to punch him every time I see him.
Consequences was good. I like the darker direction of the show. I'm looking forward to seeing how they wrap this season up.
i felt the same way during the latter half of season 3. i actually liked him in season 2. and what little i've seen of angel he seems alright in as well. i think it's just the twilight aspect their relationship takes on. i definitely couldn't wait for him to go away.
Rewatching "The Gift" as I update a spreadsheet. Because apparently the best way to start the long weekend is by sobbing.
Kurosawa Fan
05-28-2010, 06:39 PM
Oooooo. Enemies was very good, sappy nonsense with Angel to close out the episode aside. Didn't see that coming at all. A little far-fetched, but I liked it.
Wave buh-bye to Angel. He's on his sulky, pouty way out.
Kurosawa Fan
05-28-2010, 06:48 PM
Wave buh-bye to Angel. He's on his sulky, pouty way out.
:pritch: :pritch: :pritch:
Kurosawa Fan
05-28-2010, 08:14 PM
Oy. Earshot was not very good. Outside of Buffy finding out about Giles and her mother.
Glass Co.
05-28-2010, 08:29 PM
Earshot is one of those episodes I've never really got the love for (yeah, it's pretty popular), but I still liked it. What was it that rubbed you wrong, KF?
Lucky
05-28-2010, 10:57 PM
I like "Earshot." I think it's funny. Sorry, that's not much of a defense, but the scene in the library with the whole gang sticks out to me. Oz has an existential breakdown, Xander can't stop thinking about sex, Cordelia says exactly what she thinks...haha, I'm laughing as I type this.
Early bets say KF is annoyed by "The Prom."
Glass Co.
05-28-2010, 11:52 PM
but the scene in the library with the whole gang sticks out to me. Oz has an existential breakdown, Xander can't stop thinking about sex, Cordelia says exactly what she thinks...haha, I'm laughing as I type this.
Definitely my favourite scene as well.
Kurosawa Fan
05-29-2010, 03:20 PM
It had highlights (the library scene was great), but I found most of the episode fairly corny. The guy in the clock tower, and her discussion with him, was just groan-worthy. Plus, at this point I'm a bit tired of the "Something serious is happening to Buffy, and she might not make it through! No, wait, she's fine." format. I understand the necessity of putting your protagonist in peril, but dialing up the melodrama, as if there's any chance that she'll perish, only to have her problem solved twenty minutes later, is a bit much. I'd rather have it build through a couple episodes.
Raiders
05-29-2010, 03:50 PM
Yeah, there's no way I'm watching Angel. Not a chance.
Hm, I prefer Angel to Buffy actually.
Kurosawa Fan
05-29-2010, 05:58 PM
I liked Choices. It was nice to see another, stronger side of Willow. Also, I dig the show when it goes darker. And they planted the seed for the end of Angel's presence.
Kurosawa Fan
05-29-2010, 07:15 PM
I actually really liked The Prom. Outside of the award, the episode was funny and pleasantly emotional. Loved that the hell hounds and their "trainer" were handled very tongue-in-cheek. Plus, goodbye Angel!
Kurosawa Fan
05-29-2010, 07:19 PM
And where the hell is Mara? How dare she have a life outside of these boards. She's spoiling the traditions we've built. I watch an episode and comment on it, whereupon she responds, with agreement or no, and, if applicable, posts her top episode writeup.
I feel lost right now!
Kurosawa Fan
05-29-2010, 09:30 PM
Is it sacrilegious to say that I found season three to be good, but not great? Waaaaaaaay too much Buffy/Angel drama, wrapped up too tidily for my taste, and the finale, while epic, was definitely hampered by both the godawful effects and the brevity of the battle. Plus, no Spike.
Gotta say, I liked season two better.
And where the hell is Mara?
Painting my new house! It's so pretty. I'm going to have to suss out my internet situation there, though.
Let's see. "Earshot" is okay, some funny stuff. I love Cordy saying exactly what she was thinking a second earlier. "Choices" is fine. "The Prom" is actually pretty darn cool, with Buffy fixating on the one thing she can do for her friends, when it's usually the other way around. Even though the Class Protector award is corny, it kind of gets me emotionally, particularly Giles' awesome line about "I never knew that children en masse could be gracious." Well done.
"Graduation Day" made my top list.
8. Graduation Day Parts I & II (3.21 & 3.22)
Written & Directed by Joss Whedon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/GraduationDay2_453.jpg
Buffy: Oh my God. He's going to do the entire speech.
Willow: Man, just ascend already.
Buffy: Evil!
Summary: Let's recap, shall we? My girl Anya shows up yet again with information about how an ascension works. Faith kills a Vulcan. Wait, no, a volcanologist, then she shoots Angel full of poison. Buffy fires the Watcher's Council. BUFFY AND FAITH HAVE THE BEST FIGHT SCENE EVER. Willow loses her virginity. Buffy and Angel have a pornographic scene where he drinks her blood. We see the mayor lose his cool for the first time, and find out exactly how much he loves Faith. Buffy and Faith have a terrific dream sequence. Wesley finally humbles himself enough to offer help, and he and Cordelia have the world's worst make-out session. The Mayor gives a speech on civil responsibility, TURNS INTO A SNAKE, EATS THE PRINCIPAL, AND THEY ALL BLOW UP THE SCHOOL.
Man, just writing it up makes me wish I'd ranked it higher. It says something about the competition. These episodes rocked, hard.
Why I love it: Like "Chosen," this is an episode where they pull out all the stops. They pile on the violence, the sex, the mythology, the humor, and the special effects.
BtVS is famous for having supernatural storylines that mimic realistic teenage scenarios. ("I slept with my boyfriend and now he's acting different!" "Nobody notices me... I feel like I'm invisible!" etc.)
This time, the rite of passage is graduation, and I think they nail it. The weeks before I graduated from high school I kept having dream after dream that I was being imprisoned and they wouldn't let me go. I thought there was no way I was getting out alive. Well, the Scooby gang barely do.
It's also a fantastic pay-off (after we learn in "The Prom" that the whole school was tacitly aware that they're on a hellmouth and Buffy has kept them from dying) that the whole graduating class ends up getting involved in the fight. Fun, fun, fun.
Did I mention Buffy and Faith's fight? Holy crap.
I like season 3 better than season 2, personally. Season 4 has some great stuff, but also has some serious consistency issues. (It contains, just to warn you, the two worst Buffy episodes ever.) But the show certainly takes a more serious turn and lets the kids grow up a little, which I really enjoy.
Larry, whose real name is Larry and I've met a few times and who had a bit part in my movie, died in that episode.
Poor Larry.
And in case I haven't mentioned it recently, season 5 is my favorite. Sooooo awesome.
Backing up to "The Prom" I really like that Xander bought Cordy that dress. He was such an ass to her, and it's nice to a gesture that would really mean something, and to have her forgive him before they part.
(Cordy went on to be on Angel's spin-off. So did Wesley.)
Kurosawa Fan
05-30-2010, 01:18 AM
Backing up to "The Prom" I really like that Xander bought Cordy that dress. He was such an ass to her, and it's nice to a gesture that would really mean something, and to have her forgive him before they part.
(Cordy went on to be on Angel's spin-off. So did Wesley.)
Yeah, I liked that too.
Raiders
05-30-2010, 02:09 AM
Yeah, Angel certainly has its low moments (i.e., season four) but when it soars, and it often does, it totally rivals and even trumps Buffy. Personally, I think using Buffy's three seasons as Angel's audition is more than a little ill-advised but I have the benefit of having seen both shows and can thereby vouch that the latter is one of the best that I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing. Not to proselytize, but I should stress that watching Angel is certainly not the equivalent to watching the exact same character that you followed throughout Buffy. Boreanaz fulfills the demands of the lead role rather wonderfully, and I think he is given a lot of compelling material throughout the course of those five seasons. The rivalries that develop on the show between Angel and his antagonists (and comrades) are, in particular, damn great and reveal an edge to his character that was not present during his stint on Buffy. Once Angel's liberated into his series, he becomes a much more appealing, human and all together captivating character than he was in Buffy. Being freed from the shackles of Buffy ― that is, the character and the show as a whole ― really worked wonders for him. Plus, had he stayed on Buffy, we would have lost out on some tremendous, occasionally dark, compelling story-lines that I believe are indelible and invaluable assets to Whedon's oeuvre.
A lot of highlights to think back on. The overarching villainy of Wolfram and Hart that extends throughout the entire series, Angel's dark descent in season two (like Buffy, Angel was at its best in its sophomore season), the Connor storyline (well, the beginning and the end of it, not so much the middle), etc. Plus, the characters are unforgettable. Doyle (!), Wesley, Cordelia, Fred, Lindsey, Lilah, Darla, Lorne... what I like about Whedon is that the man knows how to construct a motley crew that really earns, and sustains, your interest and compassion. Wesley and Cordelia, in particular, are so very great. These are characters whose moments of genuine pathos and gravitas were few and far between on Buffy, and they go on to become two of the very best characters that can be found in any Whedon show.
Also, in terms of comparing series finales, I think Angel's is probably superior to Buffy's. They are undoubtedly both fantastic episodes, and end on notes that are consonant with the preoccupations of their respective stories, but I found Angel's to be a much more preferable swan song. This is mostly due to its wonderful, satisfying ambiguity and the fact that it was quite moving.
Having said that, I think Buffy's second and third seasons are simply marvelous. So much so that it's hard for me to say that any season from Angel really and truly supersedes those two seasons from Buffy.
I fully endorse the content of this post.
I whole-heartedly agree that Angel, Wesley, and Cordelia all came to full flower in the spin-off. They became more fully-fleshed, fascinating people. And George and Lorne are fantastic Whedon creations.
(Important to add that a certain favorite BtVS character who may or may not be in my avatar has some of of her greatest moments over on that show.)
But the plots kill me over there. I just couldn't get on board with some of the major storylines (Conner, I'm looking at you.) They took themselves a little too seriously, and I found my favorite moments were the silliest (like the one with the puppets.) I also found the series finale rushed and unsatisfying.
Overall, I'd call Angel pretty good but not great. Probably the weakest Whedon show.
Lucky
05-30-2010, 01:50 PM
And in case I haven't mentioned it recently, season 5 is my favorite. Sooooo awesome.
I second this notion.
Kurosawa Fan
05-30-2010, 02:37 PM
Very glad to hear so many people chiming in and saying that season five is the best (both here and on Facebook). I was under the impression that season three was the consensus best. I was pretty disappointed that I had four seasons remaining that were all inferior to what I had just finished watching.
EvilShoe
05-30-2010, 03:27 PM
Very glad to hear so many people chiming in and saying that season five is the best (both here and on Facebook). I was under the impression that season three was the consensus best. I was pretty disappointed that I had four seasons remaining that were all inferior to what I had just finished watching.
I stopped watching at season 5, because I didn't care for it all.
Am one of the few though.
I'm sorry Mara took a while to discuss the show with you. Know that I'd be there for you if you were watching FNL's fourth season.
I stopped watching at season 5, because I didn't care for it all.
I remember this. It's an unusual opinion.
Seasons six and seven are probably the most controversial. The show changed networks between seasons five and six, and you can feel the difference. Six and seven are darker, more violent, and far more sexual. It kind of puts you through the emotional wringer.
But my appreciation for them has grown over time. It's hard for fans to watch characters you love change on a fundamental level. Buffy's so cute and sweet in her "Oh, I'm the slayer, but I'm also a little girl!" She's 21 and 22 during the last two seasons, and she's not a child anymore. She's sad and worn down and world-weary.
Holy cats, Beer Bad is awful. I mean, I remembered it being awful, but it is awfully awful.
Oh, hey, Kal Penn is in it.
Lucky
05-30-2010, 11:47 PM
Holy cats, Beer Bad is awful. I mean, I remembered it being awful, but it is awfully awful.
Oh, hey, Kal Penn is in it.
It's better than Where the Wild Things Are though. That episode is a mess. I think its because the script had to be drastically rewritten last minute when SMG agreed to host SNL that week.
It's better than Where the Wild Things Are though. That episode is a mess. I think its because the script had to be drastically rewritten last minute when SMG agreed to host SNL that week.
There is no possible excuse for that episode.
Winston*
05-31-2010, 12:22 AM
Seasons 2 and 3 were the best, season 4 and 7 were the worst from my remembrance.
ledfloyd
05-31-2010, 08:15 AM
Seasons 2 and 3 were the best, season 4 and 7 were the worst from my remembrance.
4 has some horrible episodes and a horrible villain but it also has a bunch of my favorite episodes ever. hush and restless. but also who are you, superstar and something blue. and i didn't mind riley as much as everyone else seemed to.
Winston*
05-31-2010, 10:37 AM
I didn't like whenever science fiction stuff gets into this show. I have no trouble with all the magic stuff because that's the world we've been asked to accept, but the robots and whatnot really take me out of it.
I didn't like whenever science fiction stuff gets into this show. I have no trouble with all the magic stuff because that's the world we've been asked to accept, but the robots and whatnot really take me out of it.
That's an interesting point.
In the commentary to "Restless"-- watch it, if you haven't-- Whedon points out that in season 4 especially they use technology as the masculine-driven power source and magic as the feminine-driven power source. The men weigh things and categorize things, the women draw things and read the mythology and poetry of things. The men name things, the women ask things their names.
Of course, magic as a symbol for female power (especially female sexuality) is overtly played throughout the whole series. No subtlety there.
I've been watching some season 4 in the background while sewing some drapes, and I really think that overall, it's quite good. There are a few problems, and the problems are unfortunately far-reaching. (In that they don't disappear in an episode, but continue to play and play and play.) But when it's good, it's amazing.
All the episodes with Whedon commentary are awesome, actually. He's charming and funny all the time. Jane Espenson does some good ones, too, and Seth Green's one from season 4 is pretty fun. ("Buffy required me to get naked more than any other job.")
Lucky
05-31-2010, 11:07 PM
In the commentary to "Restless"-- watch it, if you haven't-- Whedon points out that in season 4 especially they use technology as the masculine-driven power source and magic as the feminine-driven power source. The men weigh things and categorize things, the women draw things and read the mythology and poetry of things. The men name things, the women ask things their names.
Of course, magic as a symbol for female power (especially female sexuality) is overtly played throughout the whole series. No subtlety there.
That is, indeed, interesting. Does he say anything about why he chose to write Maggie Walsh as a woman then?
Winston*
06-01-2010, 01:08 AM
That's an interesting point.
In the commentary to "Restless"-- watch it, if you haven't-- Whedon points out that in season 4 especially they use technology as the masculine-driven power source and magic as the feminine-driven power source. The men weigh things and categorize things, the women draw things and read the mythology and poetry of things. The men name things, the women ask things their names.
I don't like this. Strikes me as unthinkingly sexist.
That is, indeed, interesting. Does he say anything about why he chose to write Maggie Walsh as a woman then?
Eh, Giles and Xander are men. But they each subscribe to the alternate methodology.
And it is sexist, in the sense that they delineate quite markedly between what they consider masculine and what they consider feminine. (It's not evenly divided males vs. females, but still.) And the show certainly takes the side that the feminine is more organic, durable, and useful. Joss' brand of feminism is an odd animal.
Winston*
06-01-2010, 02:05 AM
The men weigh things and categorize things, the women draw things and read the mythology and poetry of things. The men name things, the women ask things their names.
Funny how you could have Don Draper give this as a speech in Mad Men.
The men weigh things and categorize things, the women draw things and read the mythology and poetry of things. The men name things, the women ask things their names.
Funny how you could have Don Draper give this as a speech in Mad Men.
I'm summarizing. If you're curious what he thinks about it, you should watch the commentary.
Draper would be very snide about it, I think.
Kurosawa Fan
06-02-2010, 04:14 PM
The Freshman was a solid opening to season four. A bit on the mopey side, but it was fun watching the gang bond again.
The Freshman was a solid opening to season four. A bit on the mopey side, but it was fun watching the gang bond again.
I remembered disliking it, but a rewatch showed that I really just hated that snide blonde vampire. All of the parts with Buffy feeling powerless and overwhelmed by school felt realistic and interesting.
Speaking of realistic, I find parts of the next episode hilariously spot-on for my freshman year.
Kurosawa Fan
06-02-2010, 05:20 PM
Living Conditions was good fun. Could have done without the lame father/daughter demon moment, as well as the "Some of us are trying to study" bit during the fight, but overall it was a very fun episode.
My littlest sister is prone to quote the "She irons her jeans! She's evil!" line.
KF, I'm only a casual fan, having caught a lot of episodes in syndication (mainly seasons 2-5), and although season 4 is, I guess, considered one of the weaker ones, you're coming up on an episode that is a high watermark of the show, imo. It's the one where everyone loses the ability to speak (It's called Hush, I think). Brilliant episode, I wish the entire series could have sustained that level of inspiration.
Hush is flipping awesome. And it follows Something Blue, which is also great.
ledfloyd
06-02-2010, 08:47 PM
hush is the best episode of the series. followed by restless.
Ha. I had to look up Restless, but yeah, I saw that one. I remember thinking at the time, "What a strange episode" As in Lynchian mindfuck-strange.
hush is the best episode of the series. followed by restless.
They're both in my top ten. I think I have Hush at 6 at Restless at 4. They're both fantastic for completely different reasons.
I know some people don't like Superstar, but I really do. A quick rewatch while I eat my lunch and I'm noticing the score for the first time. It's really fun, James-Bond-Action-Hero stuff.
Kurosawa Fan
06-04-2010, 07:56 PM
SPIKE!!!!!!!
Kurosawa Fan
06-04-2010, 08:15 PM
"You love that tunnel more than me."
"I love syphilis more than you."
I missed Spike so much.
Kurosawa Fan
06-04-2010, 09:11 PM
The Harsh Light of Day was pretty silly. Seeing Buffy toil over Parker didn't work at all. I know she was a bit absorbed in the broodiness that was Angel, but her "vulnerability" at the end with Willow rang false. Also, what was with all the montages?
Still, Spike is back. And awesome. It would have been great if he could have held on to that ring longer. He kind of comes off like a bumbling fool, despite his general badass-ness.
Kurosawa Fan
06-04-2010, 09:19 PM
I gotta say, I'm loving Giles this season. Now that he's not officially her watcher, and isn't working at the library, he's much more laid back and fun.
Kurosawa Fan
06-04-2010, 09:54 PM
Fear, Itself was awesome fun. Equal parts hilarious and creepy.
ledfloyd
06-04-2010, 10:52 PM
and now you have the worst episode of the entire series to look forward to.
I gotta say, I'm loving Giles this season. Now that he's not officially her watcher, and isn't working at the library, he's much more laid back and fun.
Trading the tweed in for the more flattering sweaters. Eventually he transitions into some really fantastic, sharp suits and lets his badass out to play more.
I like Harmony and Spike playing off each other. The dynamic is really fun.
Part of Spike's character is a bit of a fool. He's not very smart, although he is clever, and so occasionally makes bone-headed mistakes. He usually covers it with bravado and charm, which are what he's best at.
The next episode is best watched in MSTK mode. Heads up.
Fear, Itself was awesome fun. Equal parts hilarious and creepy.
"Actual size."
Winston*
06-05-2010, 01:22 AM
Best Episode: The Body.
Best Episode: The Body.
So, so true. Possibly the most extraordinary hour of television I've ever seen.
No spoilers.
Lucky
06-05-2010, 07:49 PM
Watching "Hush" right now. Anya makes me laugh.
"Oh, you mean an orgasm-friend?" :lol:
Kurosawa Fan
06-06-2010, 04:53 PM
I'm kind of in love with Anya.
ledfloyd
06-07-2010, 12:27 AM
I'm kind of in love with Anya.
this is natural.
I'm kind of in love with Anya.
I was surprised that some people dislike her. I find her funny and charming, and every once in awhile they pull out a very effective emotional moment from her.
Riley is so damn needy in season 5. Get some self-respect, man.
Lucky
06-08-2010, 05:05 AM
I'll admit Anya took me some warming up to the first time around, but now she's one of my top 3 favorite Buffy characters. I think I'm one of the few fans who always ends up liking Xander and Willow's significant others more than
them. I have one exception to that rule but it would be a spoiler and I'm on my phone and can't use spoilers right now.
I thought I'd give it another shot, but I still dislike "Forever." For the record.
I'll admit Anya took me some warming up to the first time around, but now she's one of my top 3 favorite Buffy characters. I think I'm one of the few fans who always ends up liking Xander and Willow's significant others more than
them. I have one exception to that rule but it would be a spoiler and I'm on my phone and can't use spoilers right now.
Kennedy, I assume? I'm okay with her, I guess, but we never really bonded. I never bought her as a serious relationship.
ledfloyd
06-09-2010, 12:06 AM
i'm 12 episodes into angel and unless something goes seriously wrong i think i'm going to end up with amnesiac/raiders here instead of mara.
i'm 12 episodes into angel and unless something goes seriously wrong i think i'm going to end up with amnesiac/raiders here instead of mara.
If you love it, more power to you. It just didn't really resonate with me much (especially the last season or so.) There were a few characters and several episodes that were as enjoyable as anything that Whedon has ever done. It just didn't form a cohesive whole for me.
Side note: for a fun project, I think I'm going to watch every Faith episode of BtVS and Angel chronologically to see if I really want to write a paper on her or not.
I was checking a thread I made on Angel once and found this quote:
Gunn: I've got a plan.
Wesley: Oh, thank God! What is it?
Gunn: We die horribly and painfully, you go to Hell and I spend eternity in the arms of baby Jesus.
Wesley: Oh.
...and now I kind of want to watch it again.
Kurosawa Fan
06-09-2010, 06:03 PM
Beer Bad is quite possibly the worst episode of any TV series I like. That was just dreadful.
Beer Bad is quite possibly the worst episode of any TV series I like. That was just dreadful.
:lol:
It's so painfully, embarrassingly bad. Tied, in my opinion, as the worst Buffy episode ever. Some people place it at number one. It's just... awful.
Season four is like the little girl with the little curl right in the middle of her forehead: when it is good, it is very very good, and when it is bad, it is horrid.
An interesting article on how Beer Bad (http://tv.swingthesickle.com/ststv/Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer/Season_4/05.review) went so wildly wrong.
Lucky
06-10-2010, 12:05 AM
I thought I'd give it another shot, but I still dislike "Forever." For the record.
I always liked, not loved, it. I like it more now that I can relate to it personally.
SEASON 5 SPOILERS
Quite a few of the moments still ring very true to me throughout the episode.
-Picking out the casket. I'll never forget my mother breaking down and will think about it everytime I watch the first scene.
-Buffy saying "I'm all phoned out." Know exactly what she means.
-Dawn not wanting to be around. It may be selfish, but everyone grieves differently and I didn't want to be near my family after the funeral either.
-The funeral scene itself was tasteful.
-I like Buffy/Angel stuff. I actually had a couple friends come from afar to visit me the week of the funeral and I relate to Buffy's desperate plea of "stay forever." You need a sense of normalcy and it comforted me to have it like old times. It's during that moment you don't want to remember that time is actually ticking and want to take solace in a fantasy past for awhile. Even if it doesn't exist anymore.
Then there's the whole Dawn subplot which really soils an otherwise admirable epilogue of "The Body." That's the true weak point which isn't executed very well.
But we end on a superb note. The final scene hits just as strong of a punch as anything in its stellar sister episode. SMG nails it, I get the chills every time she delivers, "Who's going to make things better? Who's going to take care of us?" Then after hearing the knock on the door as her voice breaks out "Mommy?" ...just like when she found her.
Overall I think it's a respectable sister piece to "The Body", but it could have been something truly special provided Joss had a larger hand in it, methinks.
Lucky
06-10-2010, 12:50 AM
I thought I'd give it another shot, but I still dislike "Forever." For the record.
To summarize without spoilers, I think this episode would have benefitted without the supernatural element and continued down the road where the episode before left off. Everything else is very good, though.
ledfloyd
06-10-2010, 02:12 AM
:lol:
It's so painfully, embarrassingly bad. Tied, in my opinion, as the worst Buffy episode ever. Some people place it at number one. It's just... awful.
which could it possibly be tied with?
which could it possibly be tied with?
Where the Wild Things Are.
Achingly, flinchingly bad. Beer Bad I can at least laugh at. Where the Wild Things Are must simply be suffered through.
I'd somehow never seen these behind-the-scenes things from "Once More, with Feeling."
Video here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEQqaYrgTRE)
Highlights include Spike playing along to himself singing "Rest in Peace" and Anya missing all her cues, and Joss assuring everyone that they only throw rubber knives. Lots of dance rehearsal footage, as well.
Kurosawa Fan
06-19-2010, 07:48 PM
Wild at Heart was really good. I'm a bit sad that they chose to bring things to such a quick conclusion with Oz and Veruca. That could have been a very intriguing multi-episode storyline. Still, solid episode.
Veruca was an interesting character, and I like how they kept showing her wandering in and out several episodes in advance, and Oz always noticed her.
Teaser: the next episode has one of my favorite Spike moments of all time.
Kurosawa Fan
06-20-2010, 11:40 AM
Veruca was an interesting character, and I like how they kept showing her wandering in and out several episodes in advance, and Oz always noticed her.
As did I, which was why I was so surprised that they were willing to get rid of her so quickly.
Teaser: the next episode has one of my favorite Spike moments of all time.
Dang it! I probably won't have time to watch it until next weekend. Too much homework. On the plus side, this is my last week of class until September.
Lucky
06-20-2010, 02:24 PM
You know what kinda bugged me about Veruca? She may have been a werewolf, but she was a human. There were no ramifications for Oz killing her. The show usually takes the murder of a person pretty seriously.
You know what kinda bugged me about Veruca? She may have been a werewolf, but she was a human. There were no ramifications for Oz killing her. The show usually takes the murder of a person pretty seriously.
I would agree that it is taken less seriously than most humans' deaths. But:
1. She was a killer.
2. She had embraced "the wolf" and moved away from her humanity.
3. Oz was a wolf at the time he killed her, and he has no control or memory over deaths while he is a wolf (like the time he ate that guy in "The Zeppo.")
Oz seems to take it the most seriously, and he certainly feels guilty.
Lucky
06-21-2010, 12:02 AM
"Something Blue" is funnier than I remember. "Whatever you're doing, stop. You smell like fruit roll ups.":lol:
"Something Blue" gives me serious giggle fits.
Kurosawa Fan
06-25-2010, 06:04 PM
The Initiative was... interesting. Not sure how I feel about Riley and his super troop. Seems a bit silly. And that scene where he realizes he likes Buffy couldn't have been worse. Seriously. Still, the episode had some great moments, most notably the fight between Xander and Harmony.
Kurosawa Fan
06-25-2010, 06:05 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! !
I saw you updated the thread and I'm like "YAY" out loud just like a dork.
Riley
Who?
(Better living through denial.)
Seriously, though, Riley is beyond irritating. He and the Initiative are easily the weakest part of the overall arc of season 4.
Still, the episode had some great moments, most notably the fight between Xander and Harmony.
Yes. Also, Spike's impotence scene, which gives me giggle fits.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! !
Pangs?
Pangs is... odd. Sort of hilarious and sort of too, too silly.
But the next two episodes are fantastically awesome. Awesomely awesome.
Kurosawa Fan
06-25-2010, 06:22 PM
Pangs?
Pangs is... odd. Sort of hilarious and sort of too, too silly.
But the next two episodes are fantastically awesome. Awesomely awesome.
Yep, Pangs. And the return of mopey.
Awesome news about the next two. If work remains as slow as it's been, I might get through both of them.
Yep, Pangs. And the return of mopey.
Awkward crossovers for the LOSE, amirite? I think he was contractually obligated to show up a few times.
Characters make jokes about Xander getting the funny syphilis for the next three seasons. Good times.
Fun fact: I spelled syphilis right on the first try. Go me.
Kurosawa Fan
06-25-2010, 06:56 PM
Stupid as Pangs was, there were way too many hilarious moments to disregard it as a bad episode. I laughed pretty consistently the entire way through.
Kurosawa Fan
06-25-2010, 09:26 PM
Something Blue was fantastic. Won't have time for Hush. Perhaps tomorrow.
Isn't it a riot? My write-up:
24. Something Blue (4.9)
Written by Tracey Forbes, Directed by Nick Marck
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/SomethingBlue_248.jpg
Buffy: Spike and I are getting married!
Xander: How? What? How?
Giles: Three excellent questions
Summary: A very sad Willow tries a spell to ease her pain, which backfires and causes her off-the-cuff wishes to come true. Wackiness ensues.
Why I love it: In terms of laugh-out-loud moments, I think this is probably the funniest episode of BtVS. Spike and Buffy in love! The de-ratting and re-ratting of Amy! Deeply confused Riley! Xander is a demon-magnet! Adorable novelty mugs!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/SomethingBlue_060.jpg
But I'm going to confess something that might hurt my fan-cred. I have discovered that I find heart-broken Buffy to be annoying. When Angel turns bad and she sobs, and she kills Angel and she sobs, and Angel leaves town and she sobs ("Right now I'm just trying not to die!") and [REDACTED]... I just roll my eyes and fast-forward. I don't know what it is, because SMG seems to do other sad emotions very well, especially with family-type drama, [REDACTED]
But, holy hell, when Willow is heart-broken, I'm right there with her. Alyson is a very talented actress who has spent 80% of her career in comedies, so I think we forget how great she is at tragedy. This may be a funny episode, but it comes from a very painful emotional place, of "I just don't want to feel this anymore."
This is also a very early indication of Willow's dark headspace, pointed out by D'Hoffryn, which becomes more apparent over the next several years.
Interesting Tidbit:
When a former roommate lost a bet with me, she had to watch one episode of BtVS in punishment, because she kept telling me that the show was stupid without having watched it. I chose this one, because it's a great, engaging episode that requires minimal context.
She poo-poo'd her way through it, but a couple days later, said in a forced-off-hand sort of way, "And whatever happened between Buffy and Spike?" And I said, "DON'T YOU WISH YOU KNEW."
ledfloyd
06-26-2010, 02:59 PM
i like riley. the initiative is lame though. but season 4 is still good.
i'm excited to see your reaction to hush.
Kurosawa Fan
06-26-2010, 05:32 PM
Hush was as good as advertised. Perhaps even better. I loved it. Probably my favorite episode of the entire series. That was some seriously inspired work.
Hush was as good as advertised. Perhaps even better. I loved it. Probably my favorite episode of the entire series. That was some seriously inspired work.
It's the highest ranking on my list of any you've seen so far, so we're in agreement. It's really fantastic work.
6. Hush (4.10)
Written & Directed by Joss Whedon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/buffy410_463.jpg
CREEPY LITTLE GIRL: Can't even shout,
Can't even cry,
The gentlemen are coming by.
Looking in windows,
Knocking on doors,
They need to take seven
And they might take yours.
Can't call to mom,
Can't say a word,
You're gonna die screaming but you won't be heard.
Summary: Really, really scary blue guys steal the voices of every person in Sunnydale, so they can rip the beating hearts out of people's chests.
Why I love it: Several reasons.
1. Fascinating "Writing": This episode was nominated for an Emmy for writing, which is interesting because half the show (24 minutes) is in complete silence. Have you ever tried to write a script without words? IT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE.
2. This is, easily, the scariest episode of Buffy. The atmosphere is so unrelentingly creepy, the music is so unnerving, and those gentlemen are terrifying.
3. At the same time, it has one of the funniest scenes in the entire show: Giles' fantastic lecture, with Danse Macabre and those marvelous illustrations.
Interesting Tidbits:
This episode introduced Tara, one of my favorite characters. Unfortunately, they really made her plain. [REDACTED] I thought, "Eh. I wish they had cast someone prettier." But Tara's looks totally grew on my, once they stopped giving her that horrible zig-zag hair part, and gave her one solid hair-color instead of the dark roots, and got her hair out of her face. Hmm. Thinking about it, 90% of her problems were hair-related. Her face is lovely, in an unusual, delicate, vulnerable way.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/buffy410_147.jpg
Not pretty.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/Family642.jpg
Pretty!
See how easy.
ledfloyd
06-26-2010, 09:27 PM
Hush was as good as advertised. Perhaps even better. I loved it. Probably my favorite episode of the entire series. That was some seriously inspired work.
yeah. i'm not sure it gets better. though you still have a lot of greatness ahead of you.
Kurosawa Fan
06-26-2010, 09:30 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed Doomed as well. Spike was fantastic in suicidal mode, and his transformation at the end was priceless.
Thoroughly enjoyed Doomed as well. Spike was fantastic in suicidal mode, and his transformation at the end was priceless.
Oh, I forgot that happened during "Doomed." I just remember Riley and Buffy being all moodtastic. Spike getting all enthusiastic about killing demons for the sake of goodness and puppy dogs is really funny.
Kurosawa Fan
06-27-2010, 03:27 PM
Oh, I forgot that happened during "Doomed." I just remember Riley and Buffy being all moodtastic. Spike getting all enthusiastic about killing demons for the sake of goodness and puppy dogs is really funny.
Yeah, the Buffy and Riley nonsense was dull, but everything else about the episode was great.
Kurosawa Fan
06-28-2010, 06:26 PM
A New Man was kind of lame. I'm ready for Riley and the Initiative to go away. Ethan Rayne as well. There is such a thing as wearing out the welcome of a "nemesis" and they've done that with Ethan, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm ready for Riley and the Initiative to go away.
Good luck with that.
My favorite part of "A New Man" is Giles, as a Fyarl, chasing Maggie Walsh. Because it's so adorably petty.
Kurosawa Fan
06-28-2010, 06:34 PM
My favorite part of "A New Man" is Giles, as a Fyarl, chasing Maggie Walsh. Because it's so adorably petty.
Yeah, I think that and Spike crashing the car were the only two parts that made me laugh.
Seriously though, is the Initiative around this entire season?
Seriously though, is the Initiative around this entire season?
Sorry. It's part of the feast-and-famine that is the fourth season.
Kurosawa Fan
06-28-2010, 06:45 PM
Sorry. It's part of the feast-and-famine that is the fourth season.
Blech.
The strength of a season is largely dependent on the "Big Bad." The Master: dull. Spike/Dru/Angel: very strong. The Mayor: tons of fun. The Initiative: awful.
But let me assure you: they do something unusual at the end of season 4 that is... just... fantastic.
Kurosawa Fan
06-28-2010, 08:24 PM
Oy. The I in Team. I was all prepared to come in here and say, yeah, the episode kind of sucked all the way through, but that ending with Buffy talking into the camera at Professor Walsh was a fantastic ending. And then they tacked on that extra ending. "Mommy."
*shakes head in dismay*
The next episode is comparably lame, but then we get into some good stuff.
Kurosawa Fan
06-28-2010, 08:39 PM
The next episode is comparably lame
Maybe, but Spike's conversation with Riley in the beginning, trying to pull off the American accent, and then giving up, only to leave by saying, "By the by, if you're trying to kill her... *two thumbs up*." Hilarious. Worth whatever comes after that moment.
Maybe, but Spike's conversation with Riley in the beginning, trying to pull off the American accent, and then giving up, only to leave by saying, "By the by, if you're trying to kill her... *two thumbs up*." Hilarious. Worth whatever comes after that moment.
Ahm a frend of Zanndrrs.
:lol:
The actor who plays Spike, James Marsters, is actually American. So that just adds a whole new level of funny.
Kurosawa Fan
06-28-2010, 09:39 PM
Ahm a frend of Zanndrrs.
:lol:
The actor who plays Spike, James Marsters, is actually American. So that just adds a whole new level of funny.
Yeah, I remember you telling me that. I'm not sure how I'd feel seeing him in another show or movie without the British accent.
It's disorienting. He also has brown hair.
I think he uses an American accent on Torchwood... maybe.
Okay, I'm trying to verify Marsters' accent in Torchwood and it's maddingly elusive. He may have been going for a hybrid accent. Because it's not particularly American, but it's not his Spike-voice, either.
Lucky
06-28-2010, 10:52 PM
What's wrong with "The 'I' in Team?" I like that episode, I just watched it the other day. It fits nicely into the storyline of Season 4 which I like best -- how the highschool gang grows distant the first year after graduation.
What's wrong with "The 'I' in Team?" I like that episode, I just watched it the other day. It fits nicely into the storyline of Season 4 which I like best -- how the highschool gang grows distant the first year after graduation.
It focuses too much on Riley and the Initiative for my taste, since I'm not a fan of either.
Buffy also begins her foray into Ugly Pants, which is a Season 4 - Season 5 problem.
But it does a good job of setting up what you're talking about, which plays out later in
The Yoko Factor and Primeveal, when it is resolved.
And it's not a bad episode, really, just sort of mediocre. In my opinion.
Ha!
I'm checking out this film that Netflix Instant Watch recommended because it has Emma Caulfield (Anya) in it... and in the first two minutes, the actress who plays Halfrek shows up. I've decided in my head they're BFF in real life.
ledfloyd
06-29-2010, 07:33 PM
the initiative is pretty lame but otherwise i'm quite fond of season 4. lots of good stuff there.
of what you have ahead this year's girl, who are you and superstar are lots of fun. and so are the last few episodes. especially the last one. really i think where the wild things are is the only bad episode you have to look forward to. just ignore the initiative and focus on the good stuff.
of what you have ahead this year's girl, who are you and superstar are lots of fun. and so are the last few episodes. especially the last one. really i think where the wild things are is the only bad episode you have to look forward to. just ignore the initiative and focus on the good stuff.
Agreed through and through.
I put "Superstar" on my top list somewhere and it ended up being controversial. Some people thought it was the WURST EPISODE EVAH but I think it's hilarious.
I have "Where the Wild Things Are" tied with "Beer Bad" as the WURST EPISODE EVAH which I think is a much saner choice.
Kurosawa Fan
06-30-2010, 07:50 PM
Whoa. This Year's Girl was fantastic. Holy awesome.
Kurosawa Fan
06-30-2010, 08:59 PM
Who Are You?, also fantastic. That said, I just can't help but feel that Faith's conversion (or crisis of conscience) was too rushed, and could have benefited from another episode. It didn't feel quite... right, I guess. Just off a bit. Still, I thoroughly enjoyed the episode. Funny how the two episodes that have absolutely nothing to do with The Initiative have increased the quality of the series ten-fold.
Who Are You?, also fantastic. That said, I just can't help but feel that Faith's conversion (or crisis of conscience) was too rushed, and could have benefited from another episode. It didn't feel quite... right, I guess. Just off a bit. Still, I thoroughly enjoyed the episode. Funny how the two episodes that have absolutely nothing to do with The Initiative have increased the quality of the series ten-fold.
Right now Faith's thing is more of a crisis, of questioning the decisions she made regarding morality in season 3.
Interestingly, after these two episodes she hops over to "Angel" for awhile and plays out the rest of her conversion there. (When she shows up, she is still really morally ambiguous.) You don't really need to know the nitty-gritty of her process, since we won't see her on BtVS again for a long time. By the time she comes back, her journey isn't as important as where she ends up.
Yeah, it made my list. So did the next one.
Who Are You? (4.16)
Written & Directed by Joss Whedon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/whoareyou_050.jpg
Summary: Buffy and Faith swap bodies, and Faith-in-Buffy has some fun with Buffy's life and body while Buffy-in-Faith tries to evade the police and the Watcher's Council.
Why I love it: I feel like SMG's acting got a bad rap in my last two posts, but she's awesome in this episode. She has Faith's attitude and mannerisms down pat, and her scenes when she tries to get used to Buffy's body and mentality ("BECAUSE IT'S WRONG") are a hoot. And kinda sexy.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/whoareyou_036.jpg
In fact, SMG is so good, that back before I had every flipping episode memorized, I was trying to remember in which episode a scene happened. This scene:
Buffy: So you guys been hanging out a lot lately, huh?
Tara: Yeah. she's, um, she's really cool.
Buffy : So Willow's not driving stick anymore. Who would have thought? I guess you never really know someone until you've been inside their skin. And Oz is out of the picture? Oh, never seen two people so much in love. She just couldn't get enough of old Oz.
Tara: She, um, said he, uh, uh, w-w-w-w-w-went--
Buffy: He w-w-w-w-what? You gonna get that sentence out sometime tonight?
--and in my memory of this scene, I could have sworn that it was between Tara and Faith, not Tara and SMG-pretending-to-be-Faith. I didn't even remember which body was there. That's talent.
On the downer side, I thought Dushku really didn't do such a hot job. I never forgot for a moment that this was someone pretending to be Buffy.
This is also a big progression in the Buffy-and-Spike relationship. This is the first time that we see Spike, not enchanted, getting all hot and bothered over Buffy (who is really Faith, of course.)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/whoareyou_195.jpg
Interestingly, Spike never realizes that this wasn't Buffy until season 7.
Interesting Tidbit:
Riley is the only main character we ever see attending church. Willow's family are observant Jews, but it is unclear if she is faithful or not. By later seasons, of course, she is Wiccan. However, it is clear that her roots in Judiasm run deep [REDACTED]
Whoa. This Year's Girl was fantastic. Holy awesome.
I was so happy to see Mayor Wilkins again. His little video is awesome.
Oh, and if you're one of those people who skips forward the DVD during the credits, don't do it during the next episode. Because they imbed jokes.
ledfloyd
07-01-2010, 02:08 AM
i'm just past 2/3 of the way through angel season 2 (i just finished epiphany) this is great television. up there with the better seasons of buffy. i wasn't expecting to love this so much.
Lucky
07-01-2010, 03:55 AM
And how great is SMG in "Who are You?", huh? Most notably the scene in the bronze with Spike. Would make my top Buffy moments list. Sexy.
Kurosawa Fan
07-02-2010, 05:02 PM
Eh, Superstar didn't really work for me. I got the vibe it was going for, I just didn't find it that funny. Not sure why, I just found it kind of boring and silly.
Eh, Superstar didn't really work for me. I got the vibe it was going for, I just didn't find it that funny. Not sure why, I just found it kind of boring and silly.
The reaction seems deeply hit or miss. It hit for me.
14. Superstar (4.17)
Written by Jane Espenson, Directed by David Greenwalt
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/buffy417_010.jpg
Buffy: Anya, when you were a demon, you granted wishes, right?
Anya: Vengeance wishes, on ex-boyfriends. I'd wish he was a dog, or ugly, or in love with President McKinley, or something.
Buffy: But someone could wish the whole earth to be different, right? That's possible?
Anya: Sure, alternate realities. You could have, like, a world without shrimp. Or with, you know, nothing but shrimp. You could even make, like, a freaky world where Jonathan's like, some kind of not-perfect mouth-breather, if that's what's blowing up your skirt these days. Just don't ask me to live there.
Summary: Perpetual victim Jonathan uses a spell to make himself the most loved, respected, successful person in Sunnydale.
Why I love it: This may be another controversial choice. There are a number of "WORST EPISODE EVA!>!!D!!!" comments on tv.com.
Here's the thing, and it may be obvious from some of my previous choices: I love the Buffy format, but part of what makes the show so fun is its self-awareness. It knows that there are a certain number of predictable elements of the storytelling, and every once in awhile it decides to subvert them all. And we get our characters acting in ways we don't understand, and it tickles a different part of our brain.
So, why do I like this one? For one thing, I'm fond of Jonathan. (Yes, I'm fond of many characters. I'm a fan of the show. If this is sounding repetitive, I don't like Riley, or Kendra, or Adam. So there.)
The first time I watched this episode, I laughed so hard during the opening credits that I cried. The set decorations, the little in-jokes, the memorabilia are all awesome. Espenson is the writer who liked Jonathon the most and kept bringing him back, and it shows here. There's genuine affection in the story.
Beyond being funny, this episode also thrust the story forward really well. Because Jonathan is "perfect", he actually manages to solve some of the Scooby Gang's real-world problems, particularly the emotionally thorny issue of Faith seducing Riley while wearing a Buffy-suit.
This is also one of Anya's funniest episodes. She's finally a major player in the series, but she hasn't started her trend towards humanization. Her stiff, awkward attempts at courteous interaction with Buffy are a scream.
Anya: Xander's not here.
Buffy: Oh.
Anya: You're not going away. Why aren't you going away?
Interesting Tidbits:
Danny Strong apparently got to keep all the Jonathon memorabilia from this episode. How awesome is that? I would love sports trading cards of myself.
The next episode is tied with "Beer Bad" as my worst-in-the-series. Sorry in advance. There is one nice moment with the song "Behind Blue Eyes."
You know what? JUST SKIP IT. THERE IS NO REASON TO SEE THE EPISODE.
Everything you need to know is right here:
Buffy and Riley boink the demons out of hell. The Scoobies have to stop them having sex long enough to fight them all. IT'S STUPID.
The only amusing moment which you really should see is (on Netflix Instant Watch) is between 30:10 and 31:45. I JUST SAVED YOU 43 MINUTES.
You can skip right to "New Moon Rising" which is really great and doesn't try to retroactively tarnish the memory of beloved children's books.
Lucky
07-02-2010, 05:46 PM
Eh, Superstar didn't really work for me. I got the vibe it was going for, I just didn't find it that funny. Not sure why, I just found it kind of boring and silly.
I just rewatched this myself and I have to agree. Not bad, but not a fan.
I just rewatched this myself and I have to agree. Not bad, but not a fan.
You don't like Jonathon, right? I imagine it would be somewhat insufferable if one doesn't like Jonathon.
Lucky
07-02-2010, 06:24 PM
I don't like The Trio. I don't like Andrew. I don't mind Jonathan. I liked his moments in Earshot and The Prom. Superstar just doesn't stand out to me. I just watched it a couple days ago and I can't even remember much of it.
Love Andrew. :sad: More than Jonathon.
Kurosawa Fan
07-02-2010, 06:31 PM
You know what? JUST SKIP IT. THERE IS NO REASON TO SEE THE EPISODE.
Everything you need to know is right here:
Buffy and Riley boink the demons out of hell. The Scoobies have to stop them having sex long enough to fight them all. IT'S STUPID.
The only amusing moment which you really should see is (on Netflix Instant Watch) is between 30:10 and 31:45. I JUST SAVED YOU 43 MINUTES.
Well, I was already 34 mins in by the time I saw this post. It was definitely stupid, but worth watching for Spike and Anya commiserating at The Bronze after he scared her, Giles and his guitar, and the moment when Tara pulls away from Willow in disgust on the stairs.
For those reasons alone it's ahead of Beer Bad as far as I'm concerned.
Tara pulls away from Willow in disgust on the stairs.
Remind me?
There are a few mediocre episodes from here on, but nothing really cringe-worthy, in my opinion.
Lucky
07-02-2010, 06:39 PM
Good news is that you won't hit another crappy episode until season 6, K-Fan. One of the aspects that makes Season 5 such a winner is that the episode quality is more consistent than any of the other years.
Good news is that you won't hit another crappy episode until season 6, K-Fan. One of the aspects that makes Season 5 such a winner is that the episode quality is more consistent than any of the other years.
I was just doing a quick scan to see what episodes are left that are kinda poo.
I came up with:
Into the Woods (except that Riley finally leaves-- YAY)
Doublemeat Palace
Dead Things
First Date... had some stupid stuff, but it wasn't awful
Lies My Parents Told Me (untrue to Spike's character, kinda dumb)
And none of those I hate, they're just not great.
Kurosawa Fan
07-02-2010, 06:47 PM
Remind me?
There are a few mediocre episodes from here on, but nothing really cringe-worthy, in my opinion.
They're talking on the stairs at the frat house, and Willow makes what could be construed as a more than friendly gesture of touching Tara's hand. Tara jumps back and shouts, "Don't touch me! That's disgusting!" She kind of comes to her senses and runs upstairs. Willow meets up with her after going to look for her, and that's when they realize something strange is happening in the house. It was an interesting setup, where Willow seems to be slowly acknowledging her attraction to Tara. I thought it worked well.
Good news is that you won't hit another crappy episode until season 6, K-Fan. One of the aspects that makes Season 5 such a winner is that the episode quality is more consistent than any of the other years.
This is fantastic news. I'm really excited for season five.
They're talking on the stairs at the frat house, and Willow makes what could be construed as a more than friendly gesture of touching Tara's hand. Tara jumps back and shouts, "Don't touch me! That's disgusting!" She kind of comes to her senses and runs upstairs. Willow meets up with her after going to look for her, and that's when they realize something strange is happening in the house. It was an interesting setup, where Willow seems to be slowly acknowledging her attraction to Tara. I thought it worked well.
I'd totally forgotten that. I actually really like the slow burn between Tara and Willow. I think it plays out really believably without feeling exploitative.
ledfloyd
07-02-2010, 09:49 PM
angel season 2 was superb. though i'm guessing the last few episodes is one of the moments mara considered going too far. i loved it.
angel season 2 was superb. though i'm guessing the last few episodes is one of the moments mara considered going too far. i loved it.
Actually, I thought Pylea was a really fun arc. (And Fred is EASILY my favorite character introduced in the series.)
You haven't even begun to taste the crazy yet.
ledfloyd
07-02-2010, 10:24 PM
Actually, I thought Pylea was a really fun arc. (And Fred is EASILY my favorite character introduced in the series.)
You haven't even begun to taste the crazy yet.
i can't wait!
I want to give an early warning to KF on season 5.
This season, in particular, has a number of truly shocking moments and surprising twists. Please try to avoid spoilers. Don't even read the little blurbs in the DVD set-- they give too much away. (I was spoiled on a couple plot points from those.)
I'm sure you're not this dumb, but I'm a very impatient person and I was so baffled and frustrated by a plot development in Season 5 Episode 1 that I actually googled what was going on. I wish I hadn't-- it plays out in a really interesting fashion.
Kurosawa Fan
07-03-2010, 03:41 PM
I want to give an early warning to KF on season 5.
This season, in particular, has a number of truly shocking moments and surprising twists. Please try to avoid spoilers. Don't even read the little blurbs in the DVD set-- they give too much away. (I was spoiled on a couple plot points from those.)
I'm sure you're not this dumb, but I'm a very impatient person and I was so baffled and frustrated by a plot development in Season 5 Episode 1 that I actually googled what was going on. I wish I hadn't-- it plays out in a really interesting fashion.
No worries. I don't even have the DVDs, I watch them on Netflix and just skip to the next episode without reading anything. But I'll make sure to avoid any episode descriptions or conversations. Thanks for the warning. :)
ledfloyd
07-06-2010, 03:39 AM
Actually, I thought Pylea was a really fun arc. (And Fred is EASILY my favorite character introduced in the series.)
You haven't even begun to taste the crazy yet.
also, cordy with short hair? totally hot. give into it.
ledfloyd
07-06-2010, 05:08 AM
First, your av is absolutely awesome and second, I'm glad you're appreciating the show. I hope you stick with it because, while it develops in somewhat contentious/divisive ways, a very considerable amount of quality is nonetheless delivered right up to its great, final conclusion.
after season 2 i'm in it until the end.
i started season 3 tonight. as evidenced by the av.
also, cordy with short hair? totally hot. give into it.
No, no, no. Every time they cut Cordy's hair I die a little bit inside. When they try to give her blond highlights I weep. I love her long, thick, dark hair.
I think it's important to note that I don't hate the show. I enjoyed it, and in every season there are particular episodes that are brilliant. But it just ran off the rails too often for me.
Felicia Day is so stinking cute in her super-young days. Also, season 7 is underrated.
*snickers*
SPIKE: Who you gonna call? [PAUSE] God, that phrase is never gonna be useable again, is it?
Kurosawa Fan
07-09-2010, 06:04 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed "New Mood Rising". I was really impressed with how they handled the Oz/Tara situation, and Hannigan was fantastic. She's the anti-Tara at this point. That girl can't act to save her life. Here's to hoping she improves.
Oh, I like Tara as a character and as an actress, although she is certainly awkward at first. She acquires a sort of clarity or serenity as her character develops.
Kurosawa Fan
07-09-2010, 06:15 PM
Oh, I like Tara as a character and as an actress, although she is certainly awkward at first. She acquires a sort of clarity or serenity as her character develops.
Good to know. Her fake stammering both times that Willow was talking to her about the decision she had to make was embarrassing. Thus far, she's mediocre at best, just plain bad at worst. The actress, not the character, of course.
She loses the stammer (which was never very convincing) as she becomes more confident. I really like the way she's used in the season finale (which KICKS ASS, by the way) and I'm interested to see what you think of her there.
Restless will be the highest-ranking episode of mine that you'll have seen so far. It's #5.
Kurosawa Fan
07-09-2010, 06:24 PM
WHAT the FUCK???? They're showing things in the "Previously on Buffy" section that NEVER HAPPENED! Angel and Buffy together, Buffy hitting Angel and Angel hitting her back. What the HELL is going ON? Did I miss an episode because Netflix doesn't have it?
WHAT the FUCK???? They're showing things in the "Previously on Buffy" section that NEVER HAPPENED! Angel and Buffy together, Buffy hitting Angel and Angel hitting her back. What the HELL is going ON? Did I miss an episode because Netflix doesn't have it?
They're actually flashing to a Buffy/Angel crossover episode that happened on Angel. You don't need to see it to understand what happens, but I can check up and give a quick summary.
Kurosawa Fan
07-09-2010, 06:26 PM
They're actually flashing to a Buffy/Angel crossover episode that happened on Angel. You don't need to see it to understand what happens, but I can check up and give a quick summary.
Ah, crap. I should have guessed that. They might have mentioned that, rather than saying "Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer." I'll just forge ahead. I'd rather not see any more of Angel than I have to anyway.
Checking... okay. Here's what happened on Angel.
As I mentioned, Faith showed up in Los Angeles and had it out with Angel, including lots of fighting and torture and stuff. She's both crippled by guilt and trying to bluff her way out of it by behaving as badly as possible. She finally breaks down, has a spiritual journey, and wants to redeem herself.
Buffy finds out Faith is in Los Angeles and shows up, insisting that Angel let her turn Faith into the police. Angel refuses, believing that Faith can be saved. They come to blows over it.
Faith ends up turning herself into the police, believing that if she goes to jail for her crimes, it will help with her penance. Buffy is still angry and Angel and tells him that she has someone new now that she loves and can trust. Angel lashes back and calls her all sorts of mean names. They part in anger.
Kurosawa Fan
07-09-2010, 07:23 PM
Didn't much care for "The Yoko Factor". The whole thing felt... childish. From Riley and Angel to everyone in the gang falling for Spike's tricks (why wouldn't they be more suspicious?). I know they're all at vulnerable points in their lives, but that all happened a bit too easily. And I'm not sure why no one noticed what was happening when it was clear that no one said anything about Xander going into the army. Eh, anyway. Onward and upward.
Well, sort of. "Primeval" is about comparable.
EDIT: Although I love the moment when Giles drunkenly stumbles upstairs, shedding his shirt, and then is all shocked when he finds out about Willow and Tara. Because Giles is hot.
Speaking of men being attractive, that quick review over at Angel reminded me of something important.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/alexisdenisof_meins-1.jpg
Rawr.
Lucky
07-09-2010, 09:15 PM
I like Primeval's self-awareness with how the initiative storyline failed. It's one of the best balls out action set pieces in the show, too. Good, but not great, episode.
Kurosawa Fan
07-10-2010, 03:09 PM
I like Primeval's self-awareness with how the initiative storyline failed. It's one of the best balls out action set pieces in the show, too. Good, but not great, episode.
Kind of how I felt, though I think I liked it a bit less than you. I'm quite interested to see how the last episode plays out, considering everything seems wrapped up. Can't wait.
thefourthwall
07-10-2010, 04:50 PM
Rawr.
Seconded.
What's a rogue demon?
Kurosawa Fan
07-10-2010, 05:29 PM
"Restless" was fantastic, but I was hoping the storyline would carry over into the next season in a more direct, concrete way. The one thing that bothers me about Buffy thus far is that every season is so self-contained. Any major problem is dealt with by season's end. There isn't enough carry-over. I was hoping this would be different, and perhaps it is and I just don't know it yet, but aside from the "Buffy has no idea what's coming" premonition, everything was pretty much spic and span again, in a tragic, things will never be the same kind of way. :)
I think the threat of cancellation always made them tie everything up pretty neatly. Although "Restless" is, in its dream-like way, extremely prescient of the fifth season.
My write-up, with much edited out:
5. Restless (4.22)
Written & Directed by Joss Whedon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/buffy422_047.jpg
GILES: I know who you are. And I can defeat you ... with my intellect. I ... can cripple you with my thoughts. Of course, you underestimate me. You couldn't know. You never had a Watcher.
Summary: Buffy, Giles, Willow and Xander fall asleep. This turns out to be a bad idea.
Why I love it: This is the episode most steeped in the mythology of BtVS. It's beautiful and disorienting and symbolic and funny and creepy. It's also deeply prescient and foreshadows so many events that it reads like a cheat sheet to the next three seasons. Seriously. If you haven't rewatched it recently, try it again and see how many of these set-ups are eventually payed off.
It's also a genuine relief to have at the end of the fourth season. I think most of us would agree that the meta-story of the fourth season, the "Big Bad", is seriously weak. We aren't interested in Adam. We aren't interested in the Initiative. As avid watchers of the show, we know that Buffy will defeat them and so we're spinning our wheels waiting for the next season.
Except.
This time, the Big Bad is defeated in the penultimate episode. I watched the entire BtVS series on DVD, and I was afraid I'd made a mistake. Had I skipped an episode? Why was there still another one to watch?
But the break in formula is fantastic. Plenty of shows try to show people's dreams (this show did, back in season 1 with "Nightmares") but writers rarely try to accurately reflect dream-sequences and dream-logic because it makes little sense to our rational mind.
Joss doesn't let that stop him. The atmosphere of the dream-state, with its inconsistencies, anxieties, desires and confusion play out beautifully.
Interesting Tidbits:
[MANY SPOILERS EDITED]
When Buffy rips off Willow's clothes, the outfit she is wearing is exactly the same as the one she wore in the first episode, Welcome to the Hellmouth (1x01).
[THESE ONES DON'T SPOILER BECAUSE THEY JUST LOOK BACK:]
Buffy: (she looks at the clock, which reads 7:30) It's so late.
Tara: Oh ... that clock's completely wrong.
These numbers were mentioned in the episode Graduation Day (2) (3x22). At that time they foretold that there were 730 days until a major event. That would mean that there is about a year left, so the "time" is, in fact, wrong.
Buffy: Faith and I just made that bed.
A reference to Buffy's vision/dream in the episode This Year's Girl (4x15).
Lucky
07-11-2010, 05:12 PM
I actually like that Buffy's seasons are self-contained. It's a unique show where even if you aren't an obsessed fan you can tell which season an episode is from after about ten minutes. Compared to a show like Mad Men where that's unlikely. That's not necessarily a strength, but I find it unique. What is a strength is that by wrapping up storylines year to year, the show is allowed room to adapt and grow. There is no other show that I have seen where the characters and tone evolve more drastically from opening to close. Buffy is a story with seven chapters, not a seven-year long anthology.
EDIT: You may change your mind about your gripe, K-Fan, once you've seen the series in its entirety. The next three seasons progressively take a turn for the darker, more dramatic side.
Okay. Yes. Season Three is when Angel goes bonkers. Also, it's on Netflix Instant Watch! Also, Cordelia looks awful as a blond.
ledfloyd
07-13-2010, 08:07 PM
Okay. Yes. Season Three is when Angel goes bonkers. Also, it's on Netflix Instant Watch! Also, Cordelia looks awful as a blond.
i just watched the ballet episode yesterday. loved it. cordelia saying 'i'm only alive when you're inside me' is kind of the best thing ever.
i like the short hair and the highlights don't really bother me either. i'm told it gets worse though.
i just watched the ballet episode yesterday. loved it. cordelia saying 'i'm only alive when you're inside me' is kind of the best thing ever.
I think that was the sexiest scene in the whole series. Yowsers.
Summer Glau is so freaking pretty in that episode, too.
ledfloyd
07-13-2010, 08:26 PM
I think that was the sexiest scene in the whole series. Yowsers.
the sexiest scene whedon has ever done.
it's odd though cause it's really funny too. like when cordy says that line part of me is thinking *drool* and part of me is thinking 'i need to be angel right now' but at the same time i'm chuckling.
the sexiest scene whedon has ever done.
Hmmm. Maybe.
Sexiest scene in Buffy is in season 6, Smashed.
Sexiest scene in Firefly is that Good Bible one. (Yeah, I admit it.)
Dollhouse I don't really recall any in particular... but it would probably be Victor and Sierra.
Did you know Andy Hallett (Lorne) died tragically a little over a year ago? He was only 33. :sad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Hallett
Lucky
07-13-2010, 10:46 PM
Sexiest scene in Buffy is in season 6, Smashed.
Definitely. In a twisted way I also think Faith seducing Riley in Buffy's body is hot. And when Faith talks to Spike at The Bronze in Buffy's body....
...I think I just like it when SMG talks dirty. ;)
Lucky
07-14-2010, 05:36 AM
PS I can't wait for KF to get into season 5. Whedon's finest work.
Kurosawa Fan
07-14-2010, 06:42 PM
Started it today. Buffy Vs. Dracula was a solid start. Xander was fantastic. Not sure about the introduction of a sister. Seems cheap and gimmicky.
Started it today. Buffy Vs. Dracula was a solid start. Xander was fantastic.
I'm sick of being everyone's butt monkey!
Not sure about the introduction of a sister. Seems cheap and gimmicky.
It'll be fine. Just be patient.
Kurosawa Fan
07-14-2010, 06:49 PM
It'll be fine. Just be patient.
Good to hear. You'd think in spending four years with Buffy, we would have at least heard of her. Coming out of left field like that, and so nonchalantly, it just seemed like it was thrown in to the season as a twist. Sort of a signal that they're running out of ideas.
Good to hear. You'd think in spending four years with Buffy, we would have at least heard of her. Coming out of left field like that, and so nonchalantly, it just seemed like it was thrown in to the season as a twist. Sort of a signal that they're running out of ideas.
No, Buffy mentions repeatedly in early seasons that she's an only child. This isn't a retcon... exactly.
ledfloyd
07-14-2010, 08:28 PM
wes talking to a giant hamburger is amazing.
wes talking to a giant hamburger is amazing.
Ah, yes. It's so... angry.
And yet the :crazy: is still only beginning.
Do you watch Mad Men, led? Because a very young Pete Campbell is showing up in a few episodes.
Lucky
07-14-2010, 09:03 PM
Good to hear. You'd think in spending four years with Buffy, we would have at least heard of her. Coming out of left field like that, and so nonchalantly, it just seemed like it was thrown in to the season as a twist. Sort of a signal that they're running out of ideas.
I'm so glad you posted this.
ledfloyd
07-14-2010, 09:16 PM
Ah, yes. It's so... angry.
And yet the :crazy: is still only beginning.
i haven't seen any :crazy: yet.
Do you watch Mad Men, led? Because a very young Pete Campbell is showing up in a few episodes.
yes! you even commented on the speed with which i watched it.
Winston*
07-14-2010, 09:34 PM
Do you watch Mad Men, led? Because a very young Pete Campbell is showing up in a few episodes.
And he sucks so much.
yes! you even commented on the speed with which i watched it.
...that's right. I did.
And he sucks so much.
The actor is pretty talented. I have... trouble... with the character.
Amy Acker is a stick figure. Sheesh. Cute as a button, though.
ledfloyd
07-15-2010, 08:07 PM
Amy Acker is a stick figure. Sheesh. Cute as a button, though.
cutest skinny girl ever.
in other news cordy just came back from vacation looking like kate gosselin and it's the first time her haircut has made me go wtf.
in other news cordy just came back from vacation looking like kate gosselin and it's the first time her haircut has made me go wtf.
Back from Mexico with Groo? Because that's when I remember it looking awful.
ledfloyd
07-15-2010, 08:35 PM
Back from Mexico with Groo? Because that's when I remember it looking awful.
yeah. i was digging the short hair, but this is godawful.
yeah. i was digging the short hair, but this is godawful.
There are a number of hair, character, and plot problems over the next year or so that make me think someone important on the show really, really hated Cordelia.
ledfloyd
07-15-2010, 09:09 PM
There are a number of hair, character, and plot problems over the next year or so that make me think someone important on the show really, really hated Cordelia.
:sad:
http://www.screencap-paradise.com/caps/albums/Series/Angel/Angel_S2/Angel_221/ttlg011.jpg
who could hate that bo... face. that face.
Glass Co.
07-15-2010, 10:49 PM
There are a number of hair, character, and plot problems over the next year or so that make me think someone important on the show really, really hated Cordelia.
From general gossip that I've read Whedon and Carpenter had some serious problems...
Angel season 5 spoilers
...which is one of the reasons she was killed off.
ledfloyd
07-18-2010, 09:39 PM
There are a number of hair, character, and plot problems over the next year or so that make me think someone important on the show really, really hated Cordelia.
well so far the handling of cordy is my least favorite part of season 4. also with her haircut and wes becoming rugged and badass, i think wes is sexier than cordy right now. which should not happen!
I've been trying desperately to finish a crocheted blanket for a friend before she gets her baby, which always means putting on something distracting in the background for hours on end while I play with yarn.
All the comments in here made me rethink my position on Angel, so I've been rewatching big chunks of it and reassessing my opinion.
Basically:
Season 1: Fun, still finding its characters.
Season 2: Fun, getting stronger storylines.
Season 3: Starts off well, but starts to introduce storylines that don't make much sense, or are bizarre retreads of BtVS plots.
Season 4: Continued bastardizations of BtVS storylines, crazy out-of-character behavior, unrelenting darkness and nastiness. Easily my least favorite season, despite pretty fun cameos by good BtVS characters.
I haven't gone through season 5 again, but this is what I remember thinking:
Season 5: A total overhaul of the show improves it quite a bit, even if the storylines continue to defy plausibility. I like one character they bring over after Buffy ends (female) but am still pissed as hell over the bringing over of a different character (male.)
And I know several people have said how much they love the final episode, but I disliked it. It felt rushed and anticlimactic. The very last few seconds are great, but don't redeem the whole hour for me.
Great minds think alike! We posted at the same time.
also with her haircut and wes becoming rugged and badass, i think wes is sexier than cordy right now.
Despite my above dislike of season 4, I think it's important to note that it is Wesley's handsomest season. He's killer hot the whole way through. Yummy.
What episode are you on?
ledfloyd
07-19-2010, 07:20 AM
Great minds think alike! We posted at the same time.
Despite my above dislike of season 4, I think it's important to note that it is Wesley's handsomest season. He's killer hot the whole way through. Yummy.
What episode are you on?
spin the bottle was the last one i watched. which was a lot of fun.
i agree with your analyses of the seasons thus far. though i seem to have enjoyed season 2 more than you. and season 3 i really liked even if some of the plot developments towards the end seem to be causing problems in season 4. (namely connor and cordy)
i'm really excited for season five, which everyone seems to agree is excellent, but hoping i enjoy four more than most.
I would like to amend that the ending arc of season 4 is better than I remembered. Other than One Major Concern, it shows improvement from the rest of the season.
I like one character they bring over after Buffy ends (female) but am still pissed as hell over the bringing over of a different character (male.)
This is still annoying. I want to talk about it when you get here.
Lucky
07-21-2010, 12:57 AM
The fact that you quoted that makes it sound like you're talking to yourself.
The fact that you quoted that makes it sound like you're talking to yourself.
WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I'M NOT?
I am my own best friend.
*self hug*
Lucky
07-21-2010, 03:53 AM
Just watched "No Place Like Home" tonight. Underrated episode, there are many things I love about it. It's probably about as good of an episode for opening up the major story arc that you could ask for. The last scene with Buffy and Dawn is pitch-perfect.
The one minor complaint I have which is misleading writing for the sake of tension is when...Dawn's offer of a cup of tea to mom is played ominously.
ledfloyd
07-21-2010, 06:45 AM
awakening and soulless were quite good.
awakening and soulless were quite good.
I still wasn't feeling it.
A character I love shows up in "Salvage" through "Orpheus," but I don't feel like the show really improves until "Shiny Happy People" which is a new sort of arc that plays out pretty effectively.
The one minor complaint I have which is misleading writing for the sake of tension is when...Dawn's offer of a cup of tea to mom is played ominously.
Honestly, I think a more talented actress could have pulled it off so it seemed more ambiguous.
Hmm. The female they brought over from BtVS for Angel Season 5 is actually better than I remembered. A great addition to the cast.
Also, "Smile Time" is one of the best episodes in the entire Buffverse Canon. Creepy and hilarious.
David Fury has a cameo, too.
Also, "Smile Time" is one of the best episodes in the entire Buffverse Canon. Creepy and hilarious.
David Fury has a cameo, too.
In fact, there are scenes I can't believe the actors made it through. I'm laughing so hard I'm snorting.
I have no shame about multiple posting.
And I'm calling it-- even if y'all never plan on watching "Angel," it's worth it to tune in for that one episode. Season 5, Episode 14.
ledfloyd
07-22-2010, 12:13 PM
i really loved awakening through whatever the last episode i watched was. the last one with faith. great arc. cordy not behaving like cordy is starting to make sense. and while connor and cordy was groanworthy at the time it seems to be leading to something as well. it was a rocky start but i'm fully engrossed in season 4 now.
i really loved awakening through whatever the last episode i watched was. the last one with faith. great arc. cordy not behaving like cordy is starting to make sense. and while connor and cordy was groanworthy at the time it seems to be leading to something as well. it was a rocky start but i'm fully engrossed in season 4 now.
I really like Faith. And it's really fun to see Willow again in that episode, too. Her awkward attraction to Fred cracked me up.
If you've made it this far in the season, you'll probably be just fine with the way it plays out. It makes a shift in tone in "Shiny Happy People" that is really fascinating, even though I still wasn't on board with the main plotlines.
ledfloyd
07-22-2010, 12:26 PM
not sure if i should use spoilers or not.
i get the feeling the angelus arc is one of the things you felt was recycled from buffy?
willow + fred was hilarious. and awesome.
I'm just spoilering things that might spoil future episodes of Buffy for KF.
Borrowed from Buffy so far:
Connor = Dawn. A mystical, magically grown teenager thrown into the mix who is sullen and makes bad decisions. Nevertheless, they are the most important person to our hero/heroine, who would die to protect him/her.
Spin the Bottle = Tabula Rasa. A spell makes everyone forget some or all of their memories so they can make mistakes in re-establishing their relationships. They're both written as examples of dramatic irony, where we know what is happening but the characters do not. Both episodes are also used as a cataclysm for a long-term established couple who are seriously on the rocks (Gunn and Fred; Willow and Tara.)
Bringing Cordelia back from the mystical plane = Bringing Buffy back from the dead. In fact, they were in the same place, which is mentioned at one point. In both examples, the grieving friends (and audience) assume that bringing the person back is a good idea, but in actuality, bringing the person back results in all kinds of hell.
Wesley & Lila = Buffy & Spike. The hero/heroine begins to question his/her own goodness and to waver morally. They also hate themselves. They demonstrate this hate by deliberately degrading themselves by having sex with someone they hate. Unexpectedly, the person they hate ends up being not actually all that bad, and they may or may not actually have fallen in love with him/her. The sex is implied to be all kinds of hot.
It seems like there's more I'm not remembering.
ledfloyd
07-22-2010, 09:32 PM
well i'm willing to forgive wesley & lila because it's revamped wes's character in an awesome way. i think there's enough different about connor that it doesn't feel like a retread. i imagine there is still more to develop in regards to the cordy story but there is the fact that in the first few episodes she was begging to be rescued. spin the bottle, you have a point, but at least in the case of gunn and fred, i think were already done at that point because of the whole professor deal. still, yeah.
I'm much more accepting of Angel Season 5 this time through, because I know what to expect. I was so damn pissed off by the plot twists the first time. Sometimes Joss' storylines are just... mean.
Yeah, okay, I'm even sold on the finale this time. Rushed, yes, but that last scene is amazing.
ledfloyd
07-23-2010, 11:26 PM
unsure about shiny happy people.
unsure about shiny happy people.
I like Jasmine. After all the bleakness and nastiness of the season, she was what I least expected, and I found myself kind of fascinated.
ledfloyd
07-24-2010, 12:10 AM
I like Jasmine. After all the bleakness and nastiness of the season, she was what I least expected, and I found myself kind of fascinated.
we'll see how it develops. i do like the twist of fred being left on her own. her being the one who is seemingly least equipped to be so.
Don't let her grace or gentle beauty fool you. Winifred Burkle is a monster.
Dead & Messed Up
07-24-2010, 03:51 AM
Watched the first two episodes. The dialogue was a little too playful, and the apocalyptic stakes were not convincing, but I enjoyed 'em well enough. Certainly supports the theory that exposition is best delivered by an aged Briton.
Watched the first two episodes. The dialogue was a little too playful, and the apocalyptic stakes were not convincing, but I enjoyed 'em well enough. Certainly supports the theory that exposition is best delivered by an aged Briton.
Oh, wow, is this your first time?
:pritch:
I get really excited when people watch it for the first time.
Obligatory disclaimer: the first season is really shaky. It takes awhile for the show to find its feet. But once you get to the second season, there's a marked improvement in quality.
ledfloyd
07-24-2010, 10:32 PM
season four wasn't as bad as i was expecting. sure connor and cordy were ridiculous but the angelus and jasmine stuff was quite good. now on to season 5. which my expectations couldnt' be higher for.
which my expectations couldnt' be higher for.
I still have mixed feelings about it, but I'm interested to see what you think.
After the first episode, we have to discuss cast additions.
ledfloyd
07-25-2010, 03:43 AM
I still have mixed feelings about it, but I'm interested to see what you think.
After the first episode, we have to discuss cast additions.
spike!
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