Match Cut Director Consensus - The Dardenne Brothers

[Ezee E]

http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/michaelwalford/2008/05/27/dardennes_bros_at_cannes_2008_ with_awards.jpg

[Boner M]

Fabulous picture.

La Promesse - 9
Rosetta - 9
The Son - 10
L'Enfant - 7.5
Lorna's Silence - 7

Lorna needs another look.

[dreamdead]

La Promesse -- 8.5
Le Fils (The Son) -- 9.5
L'Enfant -- 7.5

I need to interlibrary loan a copy of Rosetta, but it likely won't happen till later in the semester. I think their documentary aesthetic, so well articulate in terms of cityspace as well as internal psychology, is one of the best devices of late '90s/early '00s cinema.

[Boner M]

The Dardennes are probably the most influential non-US filmmakers on the last decade of cinema. Discuss.

[Mysterious Dude]

La promesse - 9.5
Rosetta - 7
The Son - 8.5
L'enfant - 7

[Yxklyx]

La Promesse - 8
L' Enfant - 6

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

La Promesse - 9.5
L'Enfant - 8

[Raiders]

Rosetta (1999) 9.0

Pathetic. I must see one more before this week is out. I think The Son is still on Criterion's The Auteurs site.

[trotchky]

L'Enfant - 9.5

[baby doll]

La Promesse (1996) [10]
Rosetta (1999) [8]
L'Enfant (2005) [9]
Le Silence de Lorna (2008) [6]

I need to re-watch Le Fils.

[Ezee E]

The Dardennes are probably the most influential non-US filmmakers on the last decade of cinema. Discuss.
You tell me why. John Woo is the only instant name coming to me right now as far as being highly influential.

La Promesse - 7

[Qrazy]

Rosetta - 7.5
The Son - 8.5
L'Enfant - 7

[Mysterious Dude]

The Dardennes are probably the most influential non-US filmmakers on the last decade of cinema. Discuss.
I'd go with Lars Von Trier.

But there are hardly any "influential" filmmakers nowadays who haven't made at least one film in Hollywood.

[Ezee E]

Hmm... I might consider Almodovar.

[StanleyK]

The Son - 10
L'Enfant - 9

[B-side]

Lorna's Silence - 6.5

[Boner M]

You tell me why.You can't throw a stone at a film festival nowadays without hitting a Dardenne-influenced film. In the last few years alone we've had Ballast, Red Road, Tony Manero, Wendy and Lucy, The Wrestler, Ramin Bahrani's first two films, Choking Man, Keane, In Between Days and tons more I'm sure... American indie cinema today is practically comprised of Wes Anderson knockoffs, mumblecore, and Dardenne-o-vision.

[baby doll]

If by influential you mean most imitated, then I suppose so. I'd also throw out Julia Loktev's Day Night Day Night as a film obviously influenced by the Dardennes' style, and question Wendy and Lucy, which formally isn't anywhere near the Dardennes.

[baby doll]

But there are hardly any "influential" filmmakers nowadays who haven't made at least one film in Hollywood.Jim Jarmusch? (Or does Broken Flowers count as Hollywood? And does it matter anyway since he was influential before that? I'm thinking particularly of Aki Kaurismäki and, by reputation at least, Fernando Eimbcke.)

[Boner M]

and question Wendy and Lucy, which formally isn't anywhere near the Dardennes.
Nah, but in terms of theme and its central character, it's practically Rosetta's Oregonian sister.

[Pop Trash]

If by influential you mean most imitated, then I suppose so. I'd also throw out Julia Loktev's Day Night Day Night as a film obviously influenced by the Dardennes' style, and question Wendy and Lucy, which formally isn't anywhere near the Dardennes.

I think it's better. Plus I believe Reichardt has been making narrative films for at least as long as the Dardennes, maybe longer.

[baby doll]

Nah, but in terms of theme and its central character, it's practically Rosetta's Oregonian sister.I dunno, there are lots of filmmakers who make movies about marginal characters.

[baby doll]

I think it's better. Plus I believe Reichardt has been making narrative films for at least as long as the Dardennes, maybe longer.Say what now? As for the second part, I think the Dardennes made their first feature back in '87.

[Pop Trash]

Say what now? As for the second part, I think the Dardennes made their first feature back in '87.

Yeah, but seriously now, did anyone (outside of maybe Belgium) see any of their movies before La Promesse? Reichardt's debut was in '94 and I know at least a few people saw it back then. Next your going to tell me Lodge Kerrigan ripped off the Dardennes for Keane.

[baby doll]

To elaborate on my not thinking Wendy and Lucy is formally impressive, sure it does some neat things with low lighting conditions and it has an effectively minimal score, but as far as grubby realism goes, this is only slightly better than any NFB film of the 70s (i.e., Goin' Down the Road). It certainly doesn't have the visceral impact of the Dardennes' work.

[baby doll]

Yeah, but seriously now, did anyone (outside of maybe Belgium) see any of their movies before La Promesse? Reichardt's debut was in '94 and I know at least a few people saw it back then. Next your going to tell me Lodge Kerrigan ripped off the Dardennes for Keane.And Gus Van Sant didn't imitate Béla Tarr in Elephant because Van Sant made his first feature in '85, whereas Tarr only made a splash stateside with Damnation in '88? I don't know what you're trying to argue.

[Pop Trash]

To elaborate on my not thinking Wendy and Lucy is formally impressive, sure it does some neat things with low lighting conditions and it has an effectively minimal score, but as far as grubby realism goes, this is only slightly better than any NFB film of the 70s (i.e., Goin' Down the Road). It certainly doesn't have the visceral impact of the Dardennes' work.

Well, that's just like your opinion man. I thought Wendy and Lucy was perfect, haunting, and left me teared up.

[Boner M]

Next your going to tell me Lodge Kerrigan ripped off the Dardennes for Keane.
He kinda did, though (but did a good job at it).

[baby doll]

Well, that's just like your opinion man. I thought Wendy and Lucy was perfect, haunting, and left me teared up.Perfect maybe, but only because it aims so low. It's a fairly standard issue social realist downer about how the little guy gets squeezed by capitalism. Personally, I prefer Aki Kaurismäki for this sort of thing because his proletariat sad-sacks are generally a lot funnier (especially in The Man Without a Past). Sure, I can see getting teared up at the finale (as a friend of mine put it, it plays like a sad country song: I lost my truck, I lost my dog...). However, I'm not sure how much that has to do with what Reichardt is doing formally, which to me didn't seem like a whole lot: she basically puts her camera on a tripod and lets her actors (and to a lesser extent, the score) do all the heavy emotional lifting.

[Pop Trash]

He kinda did, though (but did a good job at it).

Or he could be ripping off Lodge fucking Kerrigan since it's much more similar to Clean, Shaven than the Dardennes.

[Boner M]

Or he could be ripping off Lodge fucking Kerrigan since it's much more similar to Clean, Shaven than the Dardennes.
Clean Shaven uses stylized camerawork, heightened/emphatic editing & sound design to convey its characters' interiority, and it cuts back and forth between the perspective of its subject and the detective following him. The characters and themes of Keane are nearly identical to that of Clean Shaven, but the aesthetic of the former is pure (albeit first-rate) Dardenne imitation.

[Winston*]

Clean Shaven is quite stylistically different to Keane.

[Winston*]

The left Dardenne looks like Clint Eastwood.

[Pop Trash]

OK, forgive me. The Dardennes clearly saved cinema and now everyone wants to be them. Let's all conviniently ignore that many of these other filmmakers cite Italian neorealism, Bresson, 70s new German cinema, documentaries (particularly the stripped down, cinema verite style of people like Frederick Wiseman) and American low budget, independent, 70s films like Killer of Sheep and Wanda as influences much more than the Dardenne brothers. Could it be that the Dardennes and these other people just came to the same conclusions of how to make a film? No that's not possible. Clearly they are just poseurs flailing around in the wake of the Dardenne brothers' cinematic superiority.

[Winston*]

Why do you always have to get so angry about silly things, Pop Trash?

[Boner M]

OK, forgive me. The Dardennes clearly saved cinema and now everyone wants to be them. Let's all conviniently ignore that many of these other filmmakers cite Italian neorealism, Bresson, 70s new German cinema, documentaries (particularly the stripped down, cinema verite style of people like Frederick Wiseman) and American low budget, independent, 70s films like Killer of Sheep and Wanda as influences much more than the Dardenne brothers. Could it be that the Dardennes and these other people just came to the same conclusions of how to make a film? No that's not possible. Clearly they are just poseurs flailing around in the wake of the Dardenne brothers' cinematic superiority.I knew this post would happen. http://awardsdailyforums.com/images/smilies/keep/lesigh.gif

[Winston*]

Your style has been compared a lot to the Dardenne brothers...
I'm a great admirer of them, but I couldn't say that they were the starting point for me--it certainly isn't the touchstone for me that so many are making them out to be. The filmmakers that speak to me the most are those that show humanity to be complex, that there might be the good qualities, but also the great faults. Instead of reaching for an idea, to come to an acceptance--instead of denying and criticizing our weaknesses, to come to accept them--all the way back to neorealism, Cassavetes, Wiseman, who's one of the greatest filmmakers we've got, to Ken Loach, to Kiarostami, the Dardenne brothers certainly, Mike Leigh. It's alive and continuing and all filmmakers stand on the shoulders of the ones that came before them. Hopefully, though, they have something to add, too.
http://www.filmfreakcentral.net/notes/lkerriganinterview.htm

[Derek]

La Promesse - 8.0
Rosetta - 9.0
The Son - 6.5
L'Enfant - 8.0
Lorna's Silence - 8.0

Need to see The Son again obv.

[Grouchy]

The Child - 8
Lorna's Silence - 7

[Eleven]

La Promesse - 8
Rosetta - 7.5
The Son - 10
L'Enfant - 7.5
Lorna's Silence - 7

[NickGlass]

OK, forgive me. The Dardennes clearly saved cinema.

I'm glad you finally understand.

La Promesse: 9.5
Rosetta: 9.0
The Son: 10.0
L'enfant: 7.5
Lorna's Silence: 8.0

[dreamdead]

Rewatched The Son last night so that thefourthwall could watch it. Still amazing as a formal experiment where so much (albeit understated) emotion registers on Olivier Gourmet's face. He rarely reacts with pathos, instead preferring a deliberate and voyeuristic study of his environment which succeeds admirably in situating moments of the film as a thriller, with time given to the study of sharpening knives and coiling rope and the threat of what they'll be used for. It's a solid way of hinting at genre elements while remaining steadfastly a film about character-first drama.

And though it works as a religious/spiritual allegory, it is not fixedly rooted in such a reading, allowing it to be a redemptive tale that is not fully driven by carpenter=Jesus logic. Such a memorable film.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Rosetta - 8.5
L'enfant - 8.5

[thefourthwall]

Le Fils (The Son) -- 9
L'Enfant -- 8

I liked The Son a lot; it's kind of sad that the upright, morally correct response of the characters is such a surprise. Until the final moments,

I kept waiting for Olivier to push Francis's hand into a power saw or something.

[Izzy Black]

Let's face it, the Dardenne brothers are wicked overrated.

[Izzy Black]

How many times can you make the same movie?

Lots.

[Derek]

Ratings, 7,000+ word post or GTFO!

Good to see you posting again.

[Izzy Black]

Ahahah. Well, I don't rate movies anymore (dogmatic reasons), I don't really watch movies anymore, and I'm too spent for time and/or too lazy to write long anymore. In other words, I'm good for nothing but blanket statements. That said, I guess you might say I'm little more (or less) than a troll, at this point.

Life is so very depressing.

[Melville]

La Promesse - 9
Rosetta - 9
The Son - 10
L'Enfant - 8.5

[Izzy Black]

Wow. I eat peanut butter sandwiches too. Thanks Melville.

[Boner M]

I'm liking Israfel the Disillusioned Raging Alcoholic Cinephile.

[Izzy Black]

I'm liking Israfel the Disillusioned Raging Alcoholic Cinephile.

Go ahead and relish in my suffering, at least someone is benefiting.

[Boner M]

Go ahead and relish in my suffering, at least someone is benefiting.
You've retroactively deemed yourself a 'movie buff' as opposed to 'cinephile' or even 'film buff'; Christ man, it can't be that bad!?

[Izzy Black]

You've retroactively deemed yourself a 'movie buff' as opposed to 'cinephile' or even 'film buff'; Christ man, it can't be that bad!?

I know, right. Believe it or not, I consciously avoided those labels, thus, by choosing movie buff, I surface as even more pretentious than I otherwise would've been had I used those you mention. How pathetic...

[Ezee E]

RANKINGS:
1. The Son - 9.2 (10)
2. La Promesse - 8.72 (11)
3. Rosetta - 8.35 (10)
4. L'Enfant - 7.906 (16)
5. Lorna's Silence - 7.07 (7)
=8.29

The Son is added into the Hall of Fame as the 44th overall entry.

[Boner M]

The Son is added into the Hall of Fame as the 44th overall entry.
Highest rated film of the decade?

[Ezee E]

Highest rated film of the decade?
Good catch. It certainly is, barely edging out Mulholland Drive.

[Peng]

Realizing this is for voting about another thing altogether (before my time), but I randomly stumbled upon all your director consensus threads and find it fun to look at all your rating eight years ago, especially if a director has yet to release a very consensus film for their filmography (David Fincher, George Miller), and join in. I'm not gonna do a mass bump on all these threads, don't worry, just the ones where I have seen all of them at this point (so, like three).

Two Days, One Night - 10
La Promesse - 9
The Child - 8
Lorna's Silence - 7.5
The Son - 7
The Kid with a Bike - 7
Rosetta - 7
The Unknown Girl - 6.5

[Melville]

La Promesse - 9
Rosetta - 9
The Son - 10
L'Enfant - 8.5
The Silence of Lorna - 7.5
The Kid With a Bike - 8.5
Two Days, One Night - 9


Probably still my favorite working directors (but maybe the new Twin Peaks will change that). I didn't even know they had a new movie out last year.

[StanleyK]

La Promesse - 8.5
Rosetta - 10
The Son - 10
L'Enfant - 8.5
Lorna's Silence - 7
The Kids with a Bike - 8.5
Two Days, One Night - 8.5
The Unknown Girl - 5.5



I was really enjoying their latest movie up until the ending, which sucked a big fat one. Makes me wonder if movies like La Promesse or The Son didn't end on the exact perfect note just how much my perception of them would have suffered as a whole. It also makes me irrationally upset that it broke their pattern of releasing a movie exactly every 3 years.