Rate/Rank/Discuss the works of M. Night Shyamalan

[StanleyK]

For some reason, I've been thinking about this guy a lot lately.

The Sixth Sense - ***½/8.0 (Pending a rewatch)
Unbreakable - ***½/8.5
Signs - ***/6.5
The Village - ***/7.0
Lady in the Water - */1.5

The Sixth Sense and Unbreakable are both great. The latter in particular, despite some forced dialogue, is Shyamalan's best screenplay, and its slow pacing and somber mood actually ring true.

Signs is, I think, the key Shyamalan film, because it showcases his strong directorial skills, and his very weak writing. I'd say it's his best directing so far, almost Hitchcockian in its suspense, but the message is bullshit, which makes it to me his most disappointing film.

The Village has a slightly less stupid twist, but is also slightly less well made, so it balances out to more of the same.

Lady in the Water is just inexcusable. It's not even well made; compositions are frequently cluttered and many shots are inexplicably out of focus. Like Unbreakable, it's very slow and somber; unlike that film, the story is ridiculous. However, I wasn't laughing, i was cringing.

I'm wary to watch The Happening, especially after being told in the FTD that it's even worse than LitW; Still, I'll approach it with an open mind and hope for the best.

[Dukefrukem]

There are only two of his movies I can watch and rewatch on a regular basis. Signs and Unbreakable. The rest are absolute crap with the exception of the Sixth Sense, but the twist is so IN YOUR FACE the first time through, I don't find the events leading up to the ending very enjoyable since I already know what the deal is.

Can I ask why you think Signs is poorly written?

My ranks

The Sixth Sense: 7
Unbreakable: 8.5
Signs: 9
The Village: 6
Lady in the Water: 5
the Happening: -1

[StanleyK]

Can I ask why you think Signs is poorly written?

The movie is saying that everything that happens in the world is God's design, and you can't do anything to chance the outcome of your life, which I think is nonsense.

Also, the comic relief is not funny.

[Mara]

The movie is saying that everything that happens in the world is God's design, and you can't do anything to chance the outcome of your life, which I think is nonsense.

Well, there's a difference between disagreeing with a film's ideology and bad writing. I can enjoy the writing of a nihilistic film without being a nihilist.

[Dukefrukem]

The movie is saying that everything that happens in the world is God's design, and you can't do anything to chance the outcome of your life, which I think is nonsense.

Also, the comic relief is not funny.

Is it nonsense because you don't believe it? or is it nonsense because it was written poorly executed?

edit:


Well, there's a difference between disagreeing with a film's ideology and bad writing. I can enjoy the writing of a nihilistic film without being a nihilist.

exactly

[Sycophant]

Rankin':
1. Signs
2. The Sixth Sense
3. Unbreakable
4. The Village
5. Lady in the Water

Bass:
I haven't seen The Happening, because I've been waiting to get, like six solid weeks between my viewing and the last time I hear someone say "OMFG suxxxxxxx so bad so stupid-retarded wind clol." Hasn't happened yet, and we're having this thread now, so I won't see it till probably November at the earliest.

I don't hate any of the above films. Even Lady in the Water which was frustrating and occasionally irritating had enough good going for it, that I can't just dismiss it. The man has a great eye and knows how to stage a scene.

However, a lot of hisfilms are in need of a rewatch. I haven't seen quite a few of them since my initial viewing and my tastes and opinions have changed a lot since 2002.

I'm generally of the opinion that he's a better director than a writer, but that he's not as bad a writer as everyone says he is. He's not Michel Gondry, at any rate [/gratuitous swipe]. His thematic concerns remain interesting to me, and even though I disagree with his throughline in Signs, it's compellingly expressed and one of the best films about faith I've seen.

[Raiders]

The Sixth Sense (1999) - Good first viewing, but subsequently felt like a Where's Waldo? expedition for spotting the telling signs of its big reveal. Collette shines though. 6.0

Unbreakable (2000) - Perhaps his most overt adult-film-as-childlike-fable taking a superhero story and brimming it with contemporary dreariness and familial unease. Alternatively too ridiculous and too banal to truly succeed, but a well-shot bit of spiritual reflection. 6.5

Signs (2002) - A decent bit of mystery and tension-building (and the shaky cam alien footage is freakishly well-staged), but the ending is cheap and gag-worthy. "Swing away." Yuck. 5.0

The Village (2004) - See Signs. Only here the elders' reasonings make even less sense than God's in the previous film. 4.0

Lady in the Water (2006) - A great change of pace as a straight-forward bit of fairytale hokum. Raw and exposed, it is his most profound and revealing film, likely moreso for its deficiencies than its successes. 7.5

The Happening (2008) - Laughable in every way. Not scary (the wind is chasing me!) and combined with Wahlberg's constipated terror, likely among the most hilariously dumb films I have seen. I really don't know what was going on here. 2.5

[Mysterious Dude]

The Sixth Sense ****
Unbreakable ***
Signs **½
The Village *½

I don't think I shall bother with Lady in the Water or The Happening.

He showed such promise.

[Qrazy]

Well, there's a difference between disagreeing with a film's ideology and bad writing. I can enjoy the writing of a nihilistic film without being a nihilist.

SIGNS SPOILERS

Yes but there's a difference between a film where the ideology suggests that God exists and everything is predestined and that this predestination results in the early death of your wife who will warn you of the importance of smashing glasses of water and an alien in the head with a baseball bat.

[Qrazy]

I'm generally of the opinion that he's a better director than a writer, but that he's not as bad a writer as everyone says he is. He's not Michel Gondry, at any rate [/gratuitous swipe]. His thematic concerns remain interesting to me, and even though I disagree with his throughline in Signs, it's compellingly expressed and one of the best films about faith I've seen.

He's an infinitely worse writer than Gondry.

[Sycophant]

He's an infinitely worse writer than Gondry.

I knew I shouldn't have made that swipe. In the interest of not derailing a topic in its infancy, I'll admit that I can see how an argument could be made for your case, and decline to pursue it further for the time being.

[Qrazy]

I knew I shouldn't have made that swipe. In the interest of not derailing a topic in its infancy, I'll admit that I can see how an argument could be made for your case, and decline to pursue it further for the time being.

In the interest of derailing but in a different direction, seen any new animes lately?

[chrisnu]

1. Unbreakable - 8
2. The Sixth Sense - 7.5
3. Signs - 5
4. The Village - 4

I gave up after that.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I kinda like the guy. I love how his camerawork is so fluid, controlled, and sustained, especially in Unbreakable and Signs. He generally has a sense of humor that doesn't get enough credit - despite his films' tendency to feel like a eulogy, there's a healthy amount of humor in Signs and The Happening.

In my mind, he's fallen in regard to self-censorship. The Sixth Sense and Unbreakable are spare, disciplined works that feel refined. I get the sense they were created with a certain amount of humility. I don't get that sense from Signs-onward, where it seems as though Shyamalan has let a lot of poor judgment come in to his features. The Village is probably worst in this regard, with every good thing (e.g. the silent knife attack) undone by a moment of stupidity (the convenient monster-robes under the floor).

Overall, I find Unbreakable his most satisfying work. It can be read as a traditional superhero tale, a supernatural mystery, a dual portrait of broken men confronting fate...and in addition to the many ways of viewing the picture, there's a control of tone aided both by Shyamalan's use of color and the expert soundwork. James Newton Howard's score is superlative, and the sound design deserves attention for avoiding any stock foley effects. The result is a film that looks and sounds completely unique.

[Rowland]

Regarding the Signs twist, back when I was a Shyamalan apologist pre-LitW:

SPOILERS

I used to argue that the ending doesn't explicitly suggest that the wife's final words were God's Message, pertaining to the conflict with the (ridiculously) vengeful alien at the climax. Rather, if you consider the scene wherein Gibson and Phoenix discuss the two different kinds of faith, which is flashed back to during the climax, the suggestion to me appears to be that Gibson had been haunted by his wife's final words over the years, trying to understand how the woman he loved could have spent her tragic final moments on Earth speaking nonsense. The film is about looking for signs that God exists, and that specific scenario at the end granted Gibson the opportunity to assign meaning to his wife's untimely demise, to reassert God's will in his life, to believe again that everything has a purpose, which allows him to reaffirm his faith. He chose to be the sort of person who sees signs in the mundane, and these extraordinary circumstances at the end provide him with such. The particulars are intentionally vague, because the climax isn't a twist regarding what "Swing away" meant, but rather a sort of spiritual transcendence through Gibson's personal projection of miracles.

Would I still argue this if I saw the film again? Lady in the Water retroactively weakened this interpretation, because it suggests that Shyamalan really would believe the clear-cut God's Will perspective.

[EyesWideOpen]

I love the guy, one of my ten favorite working directors.

The Sixth Sense - 10
Unbreakable - 9.5
Signs - 8
The Village - 10
Lady in the Water - 7.5
The Happening - 8

[BuffaloWilder]

No love for Wide Awake or Praying With Anger?

Shame, Match-Cut.

[Bosco B Thug]

Here we go:

1. The Village - 5.5
2. Signs - 5
3. Lady in the Water - 4.5
4. The Happening - 4
5. The Sixth Sense - 3.5

I'm sorry, but I kind of find The Sixth Sense absolutely reprehensible. Is anyone there with me?

[origami_mustache]

no thanks

[Milky Joe]

Would I still argue this if I saw the film again? Lady in the Water retroactively weakened this interpretation, because it suggests that Shyamalan really would believe the clear-cut God's Will perspective.

I hope you would--that was a beautiful explication. I'm so glad I never saw Lady in the Water.

[megladon8]

The Sixth Sense - 8.5
Unbreakable - 10
Signs - 7.5
The Village - 6
Lady in the Water - 5


His direction is beautiful.

He needs a new writer.

[SirNewt]

The Sixth Sense - 8.5
Unbreakable - 10
Signs - 7.5
The Village - 6
Lady in the Water - 5


His direction is beautiful.

He needs a new writer.

yup

And I'm just using these numbers as my own.

[balmakboor]

6th Sense - 9
Unbreakable - 9
Signs - 7

For some reason I stopped after that. I do have a funny feeling that I'll like The Village and Lady in the Water.

My daughter is going crazy with anticipation for his next movie -- the only Avatar movie that matters to her.

[Amnesiac]

I love the atmosphere of most of The Village. I think it's his pretty much his best alongside Unbreakable (which is probably his absolute best) and Signs (great analysis, Rowland).

[Raiders]

Regarding the Signs twist, back when I was a Shyamalan apologist pre-LitW:

SPOILERS

I used to argue that the ending doesn't explicitly suggest that the wife's final words were God's Message, pertaining to the conflict with the (ridiculously) vengeful alien at the climax. Rather, if you consider the scene wherein Gibson and Phoenix discuss the two different kinds of faith, which is flashed back to during the climax, the suggestion to me appears to be that Gibson had been haunted by his wife's final words over the years, trying to understand how the woman he loved could have spent her tragic final moments on Earth speaking nonsense. The film is about looking for signs that God exists, and that specific scenario at the end granted Gibson the opportunity to assign meaning to his wife's untimely demise, to reassert God's will in his life, to believe again that everything has a purpose, which allows him to reaffirm his faith. He chose to be the sort of person who sees signs in the mundane, and these extraordinary circumstances at the end provide him with such. The particulars are intentionally vague, because the climax isn't a twist regarding what "Swing away" meant, but rather a sort of spiritual transcendence through Gibson's personal projection of miracles.

Would I still argue this if I saw the film again? Lady in the Water retroactively weakened this interpretation, because it suggests that Shyamalan really would believe the clear-cut God's Will perspective.

I believe a religious person would say that Gibson's character seeing the signs in his wife's gibberish is still God's work. You really can't escape it considering the ubiquitous, all-knowing characteristic the Christian God is typically given. What you're doing is rationalizing between God's work and man's decision, but a man of the faith wouldn't look at Gibson's choice as his own design but God's. Thus, we're back to square one.

I see you're point, but I think if we are to find any comfort in Gibson's ultimate choice we are to align ourselves with the notion that he has accepted God's "signs" and thus we accept that God's design was to use the tragedy to point the way to redemption. This redemption being through the overcoming of a, as you say, hilariously vengeful alien being (dunno how Gibson's faith reconciles the alien's existence).

[Watashi]

I remember when Signs first came out, there was a huge debate on RT if the aliens weren't actually aliens, but really "demons" from hell so Gibson could battle them.

It was pretty stupid.

[Spun Lepton]

The Sixth Sense -- 9/10
Unbreakable -- 5/10
Signs -- 3/10

I stopped right there. I don't think he needs a ghost writer or anything, I think he just needs to have his ego knocked down a few pegs. I think he's a good writer when he isn't patting himself on the back.

[Amnesiac]

I believe a religious person would say that Gibson's character seeing the signs in his wife's gibberish is still God's work. You really can't escape it considering the ubiquitous, all-knowing characteristic the Christian God is typically given. What you're doing is rationalizing between God's work and man's decision, but a man of the faith wouldn't look at Gibson's choice as his own design but God's. Thus, we're back to square one.

I see you're point, but I think if we are to find any comfort in Gibson's ultimate choice we are to align ourselves with the notion that he has accepted God's "signs" and thus we accept that God's design was to use the tragedy to point the way to redemption.

So, you're saying that a man of faith has to unequivocally accept the movie one way while those who aren't of faith are free to accept Rowland's interpretation? Of course a man of faith might look at Gibson's choice as being indicative of God's plan. But does that disqualify the legitimacy of Rowland's theory when taken from a different perspective? I also don't know why we have to accept the idea that it was God's design if we are "find any comfort in Gibson's ultimate choice".

[Dead & Messed Up]

I remember when Signs first came out, there was a huge debate on RT if the aliens weren't actually aliens, but really "demons" from hell so Gibson could battle them.

It was pretty stupid.

Almost as stupid as them being defeated by water.

[Amnesiac]

Almost as stupid as them being defeated by water.

That's the debate that will never end.

[Dead & Messed Up]

That's the debate that will never end.

I was unaware there were two sides about it.

[Watashi]

Almost as stupid as them being defeated by water.

:|

It was the chemicals in the water, not the water itself.

Anyways, it works fine either way. The whole "why did they come to planet made 80% out of water" argument is completely looking in the wrong direction.

[Amnesiac]

I was unaware there were two sides about it.

Oh, yeah, I recall lengthy and vehement debates about it back when the film first came out. People defended the water plot device pretty tenaciously, actually. It kind of reminds me of the debate over the son at the end of War of the Worlds (there were definitely two sides to that one as well, but I think the people who didn't mind the ending were in the minority).

[Sycophant]

The water thing is something I just can't care about.

[Dead & Messed Up]

:|

It was the chemicals in the water, not the water itself.

Anyways, it works fine either way. The whole "why did they come to planet made 80% out of water" argument is completely looking in the wrong direction.

Hardly. A film must first be true on a logical level before it can be true on an emotional/dramatic level. A cracked foundation cannot support a building, and an arbitrary set of rules cannot support classical story structure.

[Rowland]

I think I may have argued in favor of the bacteria-in-the-water theory back in the day, which is supported to some degree. If you recall, the daughter complains that she constantly needs a new glass of water because the old ones have amoebas in them, and besides, that is a rather neat variation of the WotW climax. Still, the reasoning is admittedly flimsy, so even if that was Shyamalan's intention, he obviously didn't deem it important enough to dwell upon or even confirm to any degree, which only opens his climax up to further ridicule.

[Morris Schæffer]

The Sixth Sense - ****
Unbreakable - ***
Signs - ***
The Village - **½
Lady in the Water - *
The Happening - *

[Pop Trash]

The Sixth Sense -8
Unbreakable -9
Signs -6

I stopped after Signs. I just heard too many bad things about his other movies, even if I am curious about The Village, Lady in the Water, and The Happening. I've been wanting to have a Shyamalan fest and watch all of them back to back to really see which of his movies I like/dislike. Brian DePalma too.

[megladon8]

I never made the "chemicals in the water" connection.

I always thought it was the water itself that hurt them. And so, yes, it's pretty stupid that these incredibly advanced aliens decided to invade a planet covered in the thing that kills them.

[Raiders]

Yeah, I think the chemicals idea is a little bogus. Didn't Shyamalan's character himself say he was staying at the lake because he was pretty sure they hate water?

Really though, it isn't what cripples the film for me. It seems likely that the aliens didn't know before getting here that water hurt them. And if they're desperate for a home, once here you gotta make do.

[Ivan Drago]

Unbreakable - 9
Lady In The Water - 7

[Amnesiac]

Yeah, I think the chemicals idea is a little bogus. Didn't Shyamalan's character himself say he was staying at the lake because he was pretty sure they hate water?

Really though, it isn't what cripples the film for me. It seems likely that the aliens didn't know before getting here that water hurt them. And if they're desperate for a home, once here you gotta make do.

Did you not see my reply to your earlier post?

[B-side]

I cannot comprehend an even mediocre score for The Happening. Maybe if one rates a "so-bad-it's-good" film highly, but other than that, the notion baffles me. It's such a woefully misguided film, and the acting is among the worst I've seen in a film with a budget.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I cannot comprehend an even mediocre score for The Happening. Maybe if one rates a "so-bad-it's-good" film highly, but other than that, the notion baffles me. It's such a woefully misguided film, and the acting is among the worst I've seen in a film with a budget.

The acting isn't great, but the only person who bothered me was Deschanel; her switch seemed permanently stuck on doe-eyed.

How do you think it misguided?

[Bosco B Thug]

I cannot comprehend an even mediocre score for The Happening. Maybe if one rates a "so-bad-it's-good" film highly, but other than that, the notion baffles me. It's such a woefully misguided film, and the acting is among the worst I've seen in a film with a budget.
Yes the movie's terrible, but anyone else admire the acting in The Happening??? Cuz I think I did.

EDIT: Okay, Deschanel's cutesy twitchy moments were downright misplaced, I'll put my foot down on that. But her serious scenes were fine.

[B-side]

The acting isn't great, but the only person who bothered me was Deschanel; her switch seemed permanently stuck on doe-eyed.

How do you think it misguided?

Wahlberg's forced permanently befuddled look was laughable at best. Leguizamo out-acted everyone. That's kinda sad. He was still bad. It's misguided because it's just so poorly conceived. I kinda like the idea in theory. Not sure Shyamalamadingdong's choice of "twist" would work in anything except B-movie trash.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Wahlberg's forced permanently befuddled look was laughable at best. Leguizamo out-acted everyone. That's kinda sad. He was still bad. It's misguided because it's just so poorly conceived. I kinda like the idea in theory. Not sure Shyamalamadingdong's choice of "twist" would work in anything except B-movie trash.

I wouldn't really consider the "twist" a twist in any traditional sense. The answer comes relatively early in the narrative. And I kinda like it, although the whole "outracing the wind" thing stretches plausibility.

However, that leads into the second point, which is that I honestly think Shyamalan was going for B-movie trash. He just wasn't able to fully commit to it, because the Larry Cohen / George Romero method of filmmaking runs so contrary to his own aesthetic.

The result is a film that's awfully schizophrenic, yes, but I still enjoy it.

[Watashi]

http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2008/05/16/happening-trailer-wahlberg.jpg

[Dead & Messed Up]

http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2008/05/16/happening-trailer-wahlberg.jpg

Still frames =/= accurate representations of performances.

http://chud.com/nextraimages/village4.jpg

[transmogrifier]

Still frames =/= accurate representations of performances.


Not usually, but in the case of Wahlberg in The Happening, it is damn near perfect.

[Qrazy]

Still frames =/= accurate representations of performances.

http://chud.com/nextraimages/village4.jpg

Not really sure what you're going for here because that performance also sucked.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Not really sure what you're going for here because that performance also sucked.

Neither am I. Made sense at the time, but you're right. It is a terrible performance.

[Qrazy]

Neither am I. Made sense at the time, but you're right. It is a terrible performance.

lol good times.

[ledfloyd]

i haven't seen sixth sense since i was 14 so i dunno if i can rate it. i tried rewatching unbreakable recently (another one i hadn't seen since it was released), the netflix player froze in the middle of the film and i didn't care enough to restart it. banal is a good descriptor for it. i actually think signs is great, until the third act, which is contrived and silly. the village is not great, and then the third act makes it not greater.

the happening is funny, i agree with DAMU, he was going for the B-movie horror trash thing, he just couldn't go all the way with it, so it comes off kind of half baked. but if you don't go in expecting a legit horror film it's enjoyable enough.

Signs **
The Village *
The Happening **

not really a fan.

[Raiders]

So, you're saying that a man of faith has to unequivocally accept the movie one way while those who aren't of faith are free to accept Rowland's interpretation?

Not exactly. I'm saying that if we are to believe God's in the details, so to speak, that Gibson has made the decision to see signs in this place, then how can we argue against God placing those signs there initially and intentionally? The Christian faith teaches that you pray and search for God's purpose in your life, and I simply don't see the difference between saying it was all originally "God's plan" and it only subsequently gaining that meaning at the end. If it's God's plan, it's God's plan.


I also don't know why we have to accept the idea that it was God's design if we are "find any comfort in Gibson's ultimate choice".

I mean his ultimate choice to see those signs and regain his faith and his ministerial profession. If it wasn't God's plan, where's the comfort in that decision? I guess you could say he has closure regardless, but if you believe it to be nonsense then I don't believe accepting that nonsense and then shaping your future around it is necessarily a good thing.

[Spaceman Spiff]

At least The Happening is hilarious in terms of how shit it is. It's probably my favorite of this dude's work.

[chrisnu]

At least The Happening is hilarious in terms of how shit it is. It's probably my favorite of this dude's work.
Did you find the Wicker Man remake hilarious? If so, I may need to see this.

[Dukefrukem]

I never made the "chemicals in the water" connection.

I always thought it was the water itself that hurt them. And so, yes, it's pretty stupid that these incredibly advanced aliens decided to invade a planet covered in the thing that kills them.

I never made the "chemicals in the water" connection either. As far as I remember, Bo said, "it's contaminiated". She didnt' say anything about amoebas or bacteria. You can imply that the water is has something in it, but I don't think that's the direction Night wanted. He wouldn't have made the lake reference earlier if that was the case.

[Dukefrukem]

I love the atmosphere of most of The Village. I think it's his pretty much his best alongside Unbreakable (which is probably his absolute best) and Signs (great analysis, Rowland).

rep

[Spaceman Spiff]

Did you find the Wicker Man remake hilarious? If so, I may need to see this.

I haven't seen it but I love the fake trailers.

Seriously go see The Happening preferably stoned with some friends. It's a very funny movie.

[Milky Joe]

I finally watched The Happening the other night and I kind of enjoyed it. It was definitely very bad and funny, but there was something to it that made it thematically compelling for me that I don't think I can accurately communicate here. It was infinitely better than the brief part of Lady in the Water that I saw, anyway.

[StanleyK]

I rewatched Signs with this thread in mind, and this time I really liked it. My interpretation lies closer to Amnesiac's and Rowland's than my previous one, and I find it to be much more agreeable. Not a perfect movie (I still maintain that the writing is somewhat deficient, and Shyamalan abuses jump scares), but it's superbly well made, entertaining and now with content I can stand behind. This is now the second movie Match-Cut has helped me enjoy more!

I also watched The Happening- not as boring as Lady in the Water, but not as unintenionally funny as I hoped.

[Adam]

I've also recently re-watched Signs and I would go...

Sixth Sense, C-
Signs, B
The Village, C-
Lady in the Water, C

[Dukefrukem]

I rewatched Signs with this thread in mind, and this time I really liked it. My interpretation lies closer to Adam's and Rowland's than my previous one, and I find it to be much more agreeable. Not a perfect movie (I still maintain that the writing is somewhat deficient, and Shyamalan abuses jump scares), but it's superbly well made, entertaining and now with content I can stand behind. This is now the second movie Match-Cut has helped me enjoy more!

I also watched The Happening- not as boring as Lady in the Water, but not as unintenionally funny as I hoped.

YES


I've also recently re-watched Signs and I would go...

Sixth Sense, C-
Signs, B
The Village, C-
Lady in the Water, C

YES

[StanleyK]

Rewatched The Sixth Sense, still a great movie. Scariest thing in it is Toni Collette's fingernails- shit be freaky.