The Walking Dead

[number8]

Holy shit.

AMC, yes, AMC... is adapting Robert Kirkman's THE WALKING DEAD into a new series.

Wait for it.

Written, directed, produced by Frank Darabont.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118007161.html?categoryid=1 4&cs=1

[Dead & Messed Up]

I just came.

[ContinentalOp]

Ejaculation seconded.

[jenniferofthejungle]

I didn't.


Looking forward to it anyway.

[ledfloyd]

i can't wait.

[D_Davis]

Holy shit.

AMC, yes, AMC... is adapting Robert Kirkman's THE WALKING DEAD into a new series.

Wait for it.

Written, directed, produced by Frank Darabont.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118007161.html?categoryid=1 4&cs=1

Uh....wow.

YES!

[Dukefrukem]

Holy fuck. No way.

[MadMan]

Whoa, that is pretty awesome.

[Spun Lepton]

I'm going to have to read this comic, now.

[megladon8]

Roxxorz.

[jenniferofthejungle]

I'm going to have to read this comic, now.

I think you'll love it.

I swear it's the only great zombie comic book series I've ever read. I have every issue, but haven't read the last ten or so yet because I've been trying to stretch them out as much as possible. I'm reading a few "humorous" zombie tales now, but this one is simply the best zombie series ever.

My only complaint in the beginning was that the main male characters looked so much alike I had trouble telling them apart, but that is no longer the case.

[Dukefrukem]

I think you'll love it.

I swear it's the only great zombie comic book series I've ever read. I have every issue, but haven't read the last ten or so yet because I've been trying to stretch them out as much as possible. I'm reading a few "humorous" zombie tales now, but this one is simply the best zombie series ever.

My only complaint in the beginning was that the main male characters looked so much alike I had trouble telling them apart, but that is no longer the case.

I went out and bought all four books. Cost me $120. Love them all.

Has anyone else read through all of the comics?

[ledfloyd]

Has anyone else read through all of the comics?
yep. one of the greatest zombie stories in any medium, if not the greatest. the last half dozen or so issues have been particularly great.

[Dukefrukem]

yep. one of the greatest zombie stories in any medium, if not the greatest. the last half dozen or so issues have been particularly great.

It's pretty crazy awesome. I'm basing my next tattoo on some of the artwork.

[Saya]

Just finished reading the last couple trades and some of the issues that aren't collected in trades yet. What a great ride.

Actual spoilers:

I can't believe they just killed off like half the characters at the end of the governor's prison raid story. And holy crap at Lori and the baby...

[ledfloyd]

I can't believe they just killed off like half the characters at the end of the prison raid by the governor. And holy crap at Lori and the baby...
that made me tear up.

[EvilShoe]

Garret Dillahunt as Rick!

[Saya]

Garret Dillahunt as Rick!

That's a great pick. I think Tracie Thoms could work as Michonne.

http://i34.tinypic.com/34xp4sg.jpg

[Saya]

that made me tear up.

First I couldn't believe they actually did that. I had to re-read that section to make sure.

[Dukefrukem]

First I couldn't believe they actually did that. I had to re-read that section to make sure.

I have a feeling;


that Lori will survive, the baby might be dead, but I have a feeling that she might come back...


Book 5 is being released on Jan 29.

[number8]

So the pilot shoots this summer.

[Dukefrukem]

So the pilot shoots this summer.

:pritch:

[Dead & Messed Up]

I'm gonna see if I can get on that shoot.

In preparation, I bought the first six paperback "volumes" of The Walking Dead, and I just read through the first one, and I really hope the other five are better, cause so far it's melodramatic, obvious story that's done nothing clever with the zombieism. It's reading like a greatest hits from better zombie "texts" like World War Z and Dawn of the Dead.

[Acapelli]

robert kirkman is not really a good writer

the first arc has the best art too

[number8]

The appeal of The Walking Dead has never been that it's new or original. It's that it's supposedly neverending. You don't get the bleak end ala Romero's stuff or a cure or anything like that. It's just a rotating set of characters where they die, they get new ones, they go to a different place—over and over and over again like an endless hell.

[ThePlashyBubbler]

Just got picked up for Season One!

Premieres this October. Six episodes.

Can't wait.

[EvilShoe]

Johny Lee Miller is frontrunner to play Rick.
Ugh.

[[ETM]]

Johny Lee Miller is frontrunner to play...

This is just wrong in any sentence.

[Dukefrukem]

Johny Lee Miller is frontrunner to play Rick.
Ugh.

mehhhhhhh

[Acapelli]

andrew lincoln is rick grimes

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i48b556a1527d0b65e7998d9c8d0 0a6b5

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4196/133433lincolnandrew341.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/133433lincolnandrew341.jpg/)

[Acapelli]

ny mag interview with robert kirkman

You mentioned that you'd turned down offers to adapt your comic. What’s the worst pitch someone's ever made you?
I don’t want to name any names, but we did meet with a director who’s fairly big-time. He directed a big-budget action movie that came out last summer — that’ll be our code for that — and we were on the phone with him and he said, “You know, when you came back and he dug up Shane, and shot him because he was a zombie? You really missed an opportunity there, because when he arrives at that grave, Shane could have busted out of that grave and started fighting him and you could have had Shane become, like, a super zombie and then he could have been made the main villain for the rest of the book. And he could have superpowers and be leading the zombies. It would have been really cool." So I had to get off the phone pretty quick after that. But yeah, some people just didn’t get it.

[ledfloyd]

hahaha, i wonder who that was. i can't imagine michael bay reads much. maybe jj abrams or mcg?

[number8]

My guess was Stephen Sommers. He already ruined a comic once.

[[ETM]]

maybe jj abrams or mcg?

I can't see either being... like that.

[Dukefrukem]

Anyone read the new book yet? I haven't had a chance to pick it up.

http://www.nerdcore.de/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/twd1.jpg
http://www.nerdcore.de/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/twd2.jpg
http://www.nerdcore.de/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/twd3.jpg

http://www.nerdcore.de/wp/2010/06/16/more-the-walking-dead-pics/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+NerdcoreRSS 2+(Nerdcore)

[Dukefrukem]

That's a zombie!

http://www.aintitcool.com/images2009/WDzom1.jpg

[Dukefrukem]

http://www.aintitcool.com/images2009/TWDStruzanSm.jpg

[Ezee E]

curious how a zombie TV show will work beyond a season.

[[ETM]]

Darabont has revealed that Bear McCreary (Battlestar Galactica, Caprica, Eureka, Human Target etc.) will be scoring The Walking Dead.
:pritch::pritch::pritch:

[Dead & Messed Up]

;275180']Darabont has revealed that Bear McCreary (Battlestar Galactica, Caprica, Eureka, Human Target etc.) will be scoring The Walking Dead.
:pritch::pritch::pritch:

Oh my God. I thought I couldn't get any more enthusiastic for this project, and then they pull this shit on me.

[Dukefrukem]

Cammed

nDAFflJkQoE

[Dukefrukem]

Oh shit! My copy of Book 5 the Walking Dead arrives today. Forgot about that.

I love Amazon Prime!!!

[Dukefrukem]

penciled October 8th premiere

[EyesWideOpen]

The Official Trailer:

http://www.amctv.com/originals/The-Walking-Dead/video?bcpid=86227333001&bclid=88963904001&bctid=593569611001

And it looks like the premiere is scheduled for Halloween now.

[ledfloyd]

i can't tell if this is going to be good or not. i'll hope for the best.

[Morris Schæffer]

Season two already coming!

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=28804

[Dukefrukem]

Fantastic news! So we get at least 19 episodes of this....

[Dukefrukem]

bahhh 2nd season ordered was a rumor

[Dukefrukem]

90 minute premiere. Awesome.

[Henry Gale]

90 minute premiere. Awesome.

It leaked online and it's fantastic. Seriously, if they can keep up just this sort of mood for even the next few episodes, it's going to be one of the most unique and simply entertaining shows on television. It was only 67 minutes though, but I'm assuming that's because AMC has commercials. How they are able to get away with the gore, I'm not sure.

The fan-made opening credits are so much better than what they actually went with, though.

[number8]

How they are able to get away with the gore, I'm not sure.

They talked about that at the NYCC panel. Apparently AMC does not give a fuck. Darabont and producer Gale Ann Hurdt could not stop singing the praises of the network the entire time. Darabont actually prepared two cuts of the film, figuring that the gorier version would be released as an Unrated DVD. Then he showed it to AMC's Broadcast Standards and they saw the gore and just went, "That looks really cool."

[[ETM]]

Jesus Christ, the atmosphere... wow. My gut is still tied into a knot.
Although, I don't know if I'm gonna enjoy this fully. I can't help it, all the gore and dead people, and all I think about is the damn horse.

I'm doing it wrong.

[Dukefrukem]

Just watched it... yeh it's totally badass.

[Henry Gale]

They talked about that at the NYCC panel. Apparently AMC does not give a fuck. Darabont and producer Gale Ann Hurdt could not stop singing the praises of the network the entire time. Darabont actually prepared two cuts of the film, figuring that the gorier version would be released as an Unrated DVD. Then he showed it to AMC's Broadcast Standards and they saw the gore and just went, "That looks really cool."

That's awesome. I mean, Breaking Bad has its big moments of violence and visible blood afterwards, but I'm never sure if it's because it's always unexpected and that much more shocking due to how relatively calm the action of the story tends to be around it. Here though, it's absolutely R-rated zombie horror violence, just in TV format.

[MadMan]

I've only read some of the comics, but that's enough for me to get started. I'll be trying to watch the first episode on Halloween night. The previews for this keep getting me pumped up.

[RoadtoPerdition]

It is time. If any non-HBO channel can do a zombie TV series right, AMC can.

[megladon8]

That was fantastic.

[EyesWideOpen]

That was fantastic.

Agreed.

[megladon8]

Agreed.


The zombie he went back to kill - the one that was cut in half and dragged itself across the grass.

Some of the best zombie effects I have ever seen.

And I really, really like all the actors involved so far.

Rick is likable and realistically charismatic. He seems believable as someone who is trustworthy and noble, but still very much a real, normal person.

Very impressed so far.


EDIT: I also loved the conversation at the beginning about "the difference between men and women".

[EyesWideOpen]

The only problem I had was the kissing between Lori and Shane (this implies some sort of romantic feelings Lori has for Shane when in the comics she sleeps with him once when she's feeling her lowest and alone) which doesn't happen in the comics but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll make it work.

[Ezee E]

The already mentioned moment in the park with the half-zombie was excellent. Otherwise, just what you'd expect for a zombie show. Nothing to get me too excited about yet, but enough to at least keep my attention for another week.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Great start. Love the show's slow rhythm, which allows Darabont and company to recapture some of the awe and despair that would come from such a scenario (something most ADD-suffering zombie pictures have no interest in), and McCreary's score haunted me during the lady-in-the-park scene.

[Sxottlan]

Nice start. Not much of a zombie fan, but I'm intrigued as to how they'll pull this off on television.


McCreary's score haunted me during the lady-in-the-park scene.

Definitely. And the cross-cutting with the father trying to pick off his wife.

[[ETM]]

The leaked screener had either a bad audio mix or the music wasn't done, because it was inaudible most of the time. I'm looking forward to seeing this properly today.

[[ETM]]

Great start. Love the show's slow rhythm, which allows Darabont and company to recapture some of the awe and despair that would come from such a scenario (something most ADD-suffering zombie pictures have no interest in)

The early reviews for the following episode(s) indicate that, at least in the immediate future, the pace picks up and that the pilot was perhaps an anomaly in that regard. The second episode in particular is insanely fast.

[Ezee E]

;297103']The early reviews for the following episode(s) indicate that, at least in the immediate future, the pace picks up and that the pilot was perhaps an anomaly in that regard. The second episode in particular is insanely fast.
Nonetheless, this proves that Darabont needs to be directing more stuff. A day later and it's resonating very well even if its following the cliche story of a zombie holocaust. The emotion behind it is better then most.

[[ETM]]

Fully agreed.

[Ezee E]

Only six episodes for this first season.

Well, hopefully the ratings turn out well. I'm sure they will be great for the first episode.

[Dukefrukem]

Great start. Love the show's slow rhythm, which allows Darabont and company to recapture some of the awe and despair that would come from such a scenario (something most ADD-suffering zombie pictures have no interest in), and McCreary's score haunted me during the lady-in-the-park scene.

I agree. I was especially worried about the pacing of the TV series versus the comic.

Read below only if you've read the comic;

I don't want Rick to lose his hand any time soon.

[megladon8]

The only problem I had was the kissing between Lori and Shane (this implies some sort of romantic feelings Lori has for Shane when in the comics she sleeps with him once when she's feeling her lowest and alone) which doesn't happen in the comics but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll make it work.


Eh, I really don't give a crap how closely it follows the comic.

As long as it's a good show, that's what matters.

[ThePlashyBubbler]

Ratings for this were huuuuuuge:


AMC's The Walking Dead premiere ratings are enormous: The 90-minute Halloween night debut delivered 5.3 million viewers and a 3.3 adults 18-49 rating.

That's the largest demo audience for any series premiere on any cable network this year.

It's also the highest numbers for any series in AMC's history, and beat most non-sports programs on broadcast Sunday night.

As a point of comparison for the 5.3 number, Mad Men's recent finale drew 2.44 mil.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/blogs/live-feed/zombie-tastic-walking-dead-ratings-34098

[Henry Gale]

Another article even said that with the immediate encore show of it, the ratings came up to something like 8.1 million viewers total.

Even if it halves itself next week, it's still the highest rated thing on AMC, and maybe even most cable shows. I say most because these are basically True Blood numbers, but even that show didn't even start out with even a third of what it has now.

Very impressive.

[MadMan]

Last night's episode was really quite good. I knew that the show was going to be gory, but they really didn't skimp on the heads exploding whenever the zombies got shot. And of course the scene with the half-eaten woman zombie was really well done. I loved how the episode, ended, too. Hey dumbass. Yes you, in the tank. Rick's reaction was priceless.
The subplot with the guy and his son is something I hope they go back to at some point, as I liked that one a lot.

[Ezee E]

The subplot with the guy and his son is something I hope they go back to at some point, as I liked that one a lot.

Not sure what else they can do with it, but yeah, I liked the actors in that role.

[[ETM]]

Even if it halves itself next week, it's still the highest rated thing on AMC, and maybe even most cable shows.

It had more viewers in the 18-49 demo than the Mad Men finale had total.

[MadMan]

Not sure what else they can do with it, but yeah, I liked the actors in that role.From what I've heard in the comic they cut back to it every now and then which if they do that in the TV show I would be okay with.

[EyesWideOpen]

From what I've heard in the comic they cut back to it every now and then which if they do that in the TV show I would be okay with.

I won't spoil it but yes they play a role in the story.

[Thirdmango]

So I've never read the comic, in fact when it comes to zombies I'm not a big fan, only really like Shaun of the Dead. I don't like horror as a genre either.

I loved this first episode. This was an awesome way to tell a zombie story, the pacing was fantastic and there weren't really any shocker moments which make you jump which I was really happy about. Also, we had a theater showing the premier as it aired so I got to watch it in the theater and everyone would cheer anytime a zombie died. It was good times. Good show, I'm excited for more and now want to read the comic.

That Atlanta shot of him on the horse was awesome, I understand it's in the comic too but man oh man I just loved that still shot.

[number8]

The only problem I had was the kissing between Lori and Shane (this implies some sort of romantic feelings Lori has for Shane when in the comics she sleeps with him once when she's feeling her lowest and alone) which doesn't happen in the comics but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll make it work.

I think they're going to stretch that subplot out. Kirkman and Darabont both agreed that they shouldn't follow the comic's pacing too closely and that they should explore whatever comes out of the show's dynamic. The guy who plays Shane seems to be really well-liked by the cast and crew so they might keep him around much longer.

[Wryan]

Any place to watch this online? I'm not sure I get AMC, as I can't find it surfing around.

I also discovered recently that my TCM stopped working, which seems ridiculous and bizarre and sad.

[Mara]

Any place to watch this online? I'm not sure I get AMC, as I can't find it surfing around.

Here's (http://www.megavideo.com/?v=HPWBE0KF) a pretty good streaming copy, which I am planning on watching soon.

Is it... just... super gory?

[Ezee E]

Here's (http://www.megavideo.com/?v=HPWBE0KF) a pretty good streaming copy, which I am planning on watching soon.

Is it... just... super gory?

Basically Dawn of the Dead remake level... Um... There is a part that hasn't been in other zombie movies. You know what it is as the zombies eat away, but it looks no different then a human since all you see is zombies...

[[ETM]]

The gore is not as problematic for those who don't enjoy horror so much, as the overall atmosphere. Darabont amps the tension up sky-high.

[Mara]

;297406']The gore is not as problematic for those who don't enjoy horror so much, as the overall atmosphere. Darabont amps the tension up sky-high.

I like atmosphere, but I don't like squishy.

[jenniferofthejungle]

I loved it so much I almost watched it again, but I don't want to become too familiar with it.

The scene in the stairs had me squealing inside, though now that I think about it I am glad they didn't go in for that easy scare. It was a great tense moment and that's usually what thrills me the most anyway.

I didn't like the lead actor too much at first, but he grew on me.

I'm so looking forward to the next few episodes, though I was pissed off when I saw there were only six for the entire season. I'll be frantic by the time season 2 rolls along.

EDITED TO ADD: I had to turn the subs on because I barely understood wth they were saying in the car.

[Thirdmango]

I like atmosphere, but I don't like squishy.

It's not gore in the usual sense of gore. I mean it is, but it isn't. There are those moments, but it's more like zombie with guts hanging out instead of someone sticking dynamite in a zombie and it blowing up. It's zombies are zombies, zombies get shot kind of gore.

[[ETM]]

There are zombie children getting shot in the head, too, if that's what might bother you, Nat.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Yeah, it's not clean, but such moments are isolated by long patches of quiet drama.

[Watashi]

;297406']The gore is not as problematic for those who don't enjoy horror so much, as the overall atmosphere. Darabont amps the tension up sky-high.

That scene in the staircase was intense.

[[ETM]]

That scene in the staircase was intense.

It was PERFECT. I almost sh!t my pants.

[Watashi]

I love how there was no cheap jump scares at all. All the tension relied on atmosphere and emotion. Love it.

[Dukefrukem]

I love how there was no cheap jump scares at all. All the tension relied on atmosphere and emotion. Love it.

What scared me the most was the scene in the dark stairwell at the beginning. Loved it.

[Mara]

;297483']There are zombie children getting shot in the head, too, if that's what might bother you, Nat.

Oh, red flag.

I'm pretty sure I'll get around to watching this today. (This week has been crazy, I need remedial television time.)

[Wryan]

Great introduction. I liked it a lot. The tank scene at the end was damned flawless. And the very last shot was quite nice.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Yeah, this was pretty great, and I was a skeptic going in, being really tired of the genre. I hope the rest of the series is as atmospheric and subtle as the pilot. It was really well-crafted, and avoided the reliance on shock that usually clogs zombie films.

[Grouchy]

Wow, this was AMAZING. Darabont can create tension like it's the most natural thing in the world.

[Mara]

You're telling me that Mr. Hottie Lawman was all trussed up laying helpless in bed like a plate of delicious British-but-with-a-convincing-American-accent plate of brownies, and the walking dead just... left him alone?

[[ETM]]

You're telling me that Mr. Hottie Lawman was all trussed up laying helpless in bed like a plate of delicious British-but-with-a-convincing-American-accent plate of brownies, and the walking dead just... left him alone?

I think there's more to it, but I haven't read any of the issues.

[Kurosawa Fan]

There was a stretcher blocking the door, and he was in a coma not making any noise. That's a pretty flimsy excuse, and I wasn't crazy about that either, but zombies are notorious for how stupid they are. It's not completely illogical, especially if someone locked up all the zombies in that room, and then locked up the hospital before leaving.

[Grouchy]

Yeah. Besides, the hospital seems to be a pretty controlled area. When the guy walks outside (great scene, by the way) there are like a hundred zombie bodies shot through the brains lying there.

Besides, it's just sort of a premise you're forced to accept in a way for any of the story to work. Like in 28 Days Later.

[Mara]

Done. Pretty incredible. Gory and creepy, but it's far enough removed from reality that I may be able to handle it. I was surprised how well the non-frightening bits worked-- how it managed to be touching and sometimes funny (singing and dancing in the shower) without feeling tonally misplaced.

I'd like an explanation that in addition to sound, zombies are stupid enough that they don't notice something that's not moving-- like some animals won't charge or attack if you're playing dead. That could lead to some awesome scenes where you can survive if you just hold perfectly still and not breathe.

[Ezee E]

How many other comatose victims remain in their rooms you think?

With the power out and the place vacated, wouldn't he die of not being medicated or given nutrition? Guess that's something else I shouldn't look too much into.

[MadMan]

Like most genre entries (especially in the horror genre), The Walking Dead has its share of plot holes. I typically don't dwell on those, unless they are really affect the level of belivability I afford to what I'm watching.

[Grouchy]

With the power out and the place vacated, wouldn't he die of not being medicated or given nutrition?
Well, it's not like I'm trying to defend the premise against all reason, but it could go either way, right? No medication, no nutrition, the body might die or wake up as a survival mechanism.

At this point I'd like to clarify that I've never been to medicine school.

[Raiders]

How many other comatose victims remain in their rooms you think?

With the power out and the place vacated, wouldn't he die of not being medicated or given nutrition? Guess that's something else I shouldn't look too much into.

Yeah, my wife (a nurse) and I both rolled our eyes a bit at how long it appeared he had been there without any medical attention. Even at its most basic, his body would have had no water for what appears to have been days. Even if he wouldn't have been dead, he surely would have been very weak and near death.

[Mara]

I was actually mildly annoyed that while laboriously explaining what the walking dead are, nobody said, "Oh, like a zombie?" Because, apparently, they live in a world with no zombie precedent.

I have also decided that "No Zombie Precedent" would be a good name for a band.



Nobody get me wrong: I loved the pilot. I'm just nitpicking for fun.

[Ezee E]

I was actually mildly annoyed that while laboriously explaining what the walking dead are, nobody said, "Oh, like a zombie?" Because, apparently, they live in a world with no zombie precedent.

I have also decided that "No Zombie Precedent" would be a good name for a band.



Nobody get me wrong: I loved the pilot. I'm just nitpicking for fun.
I've had that nitpicking about all zombie movies post 90's when others question what "those things are."

It's a zombie dude!

[Ezee E]

Yeah, my wife (a nurse) and I both rolled our eyes a bit at how long it appeared he had been there without any medical attention. Even at its most basic, his body would have had no water for what appears to have been days. Even if he wouldn't have been dead, he surely would have been very weak and near death.
Other then that though, after the hospital, I can't really complain about the logic of the story. Although one would think an entire block of "walkers" would be slightly louder then the rest of the city. :)

[Mara]

I don't swear, generally, but when he rounded that corner and saw all those walkers, I actually said, "Oh, SHIT" out loud.

[number8]

That could lead to some awesome scenes where you can survive if you just hold perfectly still and not breathe.

This is a staple in Chinese vampire movies.

[Raiders]

They seemed to be making an exaggerated and concerted effort during that dinner table scene to NOT say the word, dancing around it like five times. It was almost actually funny.

I wonder how unrealistic that is though. I imagine people would be awfully hesitant to be the first to throw that word out there if this should ever actually happen. A "zombie" is solely a product of pop culture, so perhaps the filmmakers want to stay away from being too self-referential. I mean think about it, in all the zombie films you have seen, do characters EVER say the word?

Even further, there's that scene in Shaun of the Dead (already a fairly meta-zombie film) where he explicitly tells him not to say the word because of how ridiculous it sounds.

[Ezee E]

But that's what they are. Maybe some would have respect for the dead or their loved ones, and refuse to call them zombies, but otherwise...

[Ivan Drago]

As awesome as the premiere is, I have to say this again...

Fuckin' zombies.

[Raiders]

But that's what they are. Maybe some would have respect for the dead or their loved ones, and refuse to call them zombies, but otherwise...

But we only know it as such because we live in a world where many pieces of pop culture have defined and re-defined a "zombie" for a while. The term is not some inherent part of our language for centuries (I believe most sources point the word starting in late 19th century voodoo--but its origin in English is early 20th century and in film/books) that everyone is just willfully ignoring. This series, and most other zombie films, show the genesis of the storyline; they are (re)inserting the zombie myth. So it seems natural that the film or story would treat them as something new and unknown. The stories are avoiding the "oh shit, they can exist!" phenomenon and treating them like a new and unidentified plague.

[Grouchy]

I've had that nitpicking about all zombie movies post 90's when others question what "those things are."

It's a zombie dude!
I think Zombieland is the only one that does that. Dunno if you've seen it.

[Wryan]

I think the ending would have been awesome if:

He jumps into the tank and pauses to catch his breath, then sees the walker waking up, goes to shoot it, and the gun's empty. Cut to black. Seeya next time, kids!

[Dead & Messed Up]

I wonder how unrealistic that is though. I imagine people would be awfully hesitant to be the first to throw that word out there if this should ever actually happen. A "zombie" is solely a product of pop culture, so perhaps the filmmakers want to stay away from being too self-referential. I mean think about it, in all the zombie films you have seen, do characters EVER say the word?

Rarely. Shaun obviously. Zombieland. Return of the Living Dead. Romero made an effort to avoid the word altogether, but his original Dawn slips one in towards the end ("...there's gonna be a million zombies in here").

[number8]

"Any zombies out there?"
"Don't say that!"
"What?"
"That!"
"What?"
"That! The Z word! Don't say it!"
"Why not?"
"Because it's ridiculous!"

[number8]

Thinking back on it, the opening of the episode sets the tone up perfectly. Really, just well done. The non-linear part with the zombie girl sets up the bleakness of the situation and the atmospheric tone of the horror, then the after-credit conversation in the car is a brilliant reminder that it's going to focus on drama rather than straight up survival.

[Raiders]

Rarely. Shaun obviously. Zombieland.

These two make sense I suppose. One is a loving reflection of Romero-esque cinema and the other is a referential comedy.


Return of the Living Dead.

Really? I thought they didn't.


Romero made an effort to avoid the word altogether, but his original Dawn slips one in towards the end ("...there's gonna be a million zombies in here").

Yeah, and it actually seems more like a goof given how they never use the word any other time. Land of the Dead has Dennis Hopper spouting it a couple times, I think.

[Grouchy]

I remember the word on Shaun and Zombieland. Not in Return, and I've seen it pretty recently.

By the way, that movie (Return) has some BRILLIANT characters.

[Irish]

Thought this was incredibly well produced but damn ... I guess I'm burnt out on post-apocalyptic stories.

I only read the first TPB volume of the comic, and more or less thought the same thing: Well done, but who cares? This genre was shallow in 1968 and it's only gotten shallower.

While I like projects that take goofy horror stories seriously (Cronos and Let the Right One In come to mind) ... I'm a little bit leery of another television series that subverts a genre to no purpose and has slow, meandering plotlines (hi, Deadwood).

There were elements that were so well done (the little girl at the beginning, the staircase in the hospital, the black guy bearing down on his wife with a hunting rifle, the woman in the park at the end) I just wish the bulk of it hadn't borrowed so heavily from obvious sources (28 Days Later, Last Man on Earth, The Road, etc).

I think the series will be successful (the initial ratings already bear that out) .. but it a world where the closest you can get to real horror on television are Dexter repeats and Sooki, is that a surprise? The bar is already really damn low.

[D_Davis]

I was surprised how well the non-frightening bits worked-- how it managed to be touching and sometimes funny (singing and dancing in the shower) without feeling tonally misplaced.


The comic is more touching and dramatic than it is scary horror. It's more of a human drama that happens to feature some zombies. Glad they are letting this shine a bit in the show. And Darabont has always been good at mixing in tension with touching moments and well-placed humor,

[D_Davis]

While I like projects that take goofy horror stories seriously (Cronos and Let the Right One In come to mind).

Do you dismiss all horror as goofy?

I mean, what's goofy about the premises of Cronos or Let the Right One in In?

[D_Davis]

This is a staple in Chinese vampire movies.

Oh yeah.

Mara, you'd probably get a huge kick out of Mr. Vampire.

[Irish]

Do you dismiss all horror as goofy?

I mean, what's goofy about the premises of Cronos or Let the Right One in In?

We're talking about stories involving dead people and rotting corpses coming back to life. I'd say there's a higher suspension-of-disbelief threshold there than usual.

[Mara]

Mara, you'd probably get a huge kick out of Mr. Vampire.

I've probably seen less horror than anyone else on this site. It is just not my genre.

In fact, I was trying to remember if I've ever seen a zombie movie, and all I could come up with was 28 Days Later, which I think was actually about a plague or something.

[number8]

I've probably seen less horror than anyone else on this site. It is just not my genre.

It's more of a comedy.

[Dillard]

Here's (http://www.megavideo.com/?v=HPWBE0KF) a pretty good streaming copy, which I am planning on watching soon.Just curious, how did you run across this stream? If I get into this show, where can I find a consistent source for watching it online?

[[ETM]]

It's probably easiest to just download it. Mara's stream is just that - an uploaded file that can be streamed. I torrent everything from EZTV.

[Mara]

Just curious, how did you run across this stream? If I get into this show, where can I find a consistent source for watching it online?

If you check sidereel.com, it will link to streaming sites that have various shows and episodes. You have to be careful, though, because not all the sites it links are perfectly safe. Megavideo (like this link) are usually pretty good.

http://www.sidereel.com/The_Walking_Dead

[Mara]

For the record, the pilot is on hulu, but no other episodes will be.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/190905/the-walking-dead-days-gone-bye

[Irish]

Just curious, how did you run across this stream? If I get into this show, where can I find a consistent source for watching it online?

Hulu has the first episode up for free (with commericals), but they're not streaming any of the others:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/190905/the-walking-dead-days-gone-bye

iTunes has a subscription to the first season (6 epis?) for $10:

http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewTVSeason?id=395373961&s=143441

Amazon is streaming it for $2 an episode:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004A8EI9M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=digital-video&qid=1289063935&sr=8-1

[Mara]

I don't torrent. I don't like it, it takes too long, and I don't like using the memory. I stream whenever I can... legally, if possible (hulu, netflix, network sites, etc.)

[D_Davis]

I've probably seen less horror than anyone else on this site. It is just not my genre.


It's a comedy. As a Buffy fan, I think you'll dig it. Also helps if you like classic slapstick and Jackie Chan-style kung fu.

[D_Davis]

We're talking about stories involving dead people and rotting corpses coming back to life. I'd say there's a higher suspension-of-disbelief threshold there than usual.

But that's not goofy. That's fantasy.

[Mara]

It's a comedy. As a Buffy fan, I think you'll dig it. Also helps if you like classic slapstick and Jackie Chan-style kung fu.

Hmm. I'll queue it.

[D_Davis]

Hmm. I'll queue it.

To some not versed in the genre, I'd probably describe it as the Marks Brothers meets Evil Dead 2 and Jackie Chan.

[Irish]

But that's not goofy. That's fantasy.

Potato, potahtoe?

I might buy into an old man gandalfing his way through some woods for the entertainment (hey there, Zeddicus) .. but that shit is still goofy.

Likewise with a lot of horror concepts (witches? voodoo? zombies? satanists? magic?), which most of the time aren't really so much horrific as they are ... goofy.

[Mara]

To some not versed in the genre, I'd probably describe it as the Marks Brothers meets Evil Dead 2 and Jackie Chan.

I've seen one of those three things. I'll let you guess which one.

[D_Davis]

Potato, potahtoe?




Uh, no. Not even close.

[Irish]

Uh, no. Not even close.


Really? Are you suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure?

[[ETM]]

Uh, no. Not even close.


Not even close to not even close.

[D_Davis]

I think you've just chosen the wrong word to describe your opinion of horror/fantasy (maybe genre in general - are you one of those people who dismisses genre as being unworthy?)

Goofy these things are not. Or, they can be, but so can anything. You can have a goofy drama, a goofy comedy, or a straight and serious drama, or an endearing comedy. The act of being goofy doesn't come from the story, it comes from the execution of the conventions.

The zombie sub-genre is a perfect example of this. You have goofy examples like Braindead and serious examples like The Walking Dead. It's not the premise that is goofy, but rather it's how the premise is executed.

Like Gene Wolfe said - all fiction is fantasy. Some of that fantasy is more serious, while some if it is more fantastic. I think rather than dismissing an entire genre as being "goofy" it would be better to say it is "fantastic" or something. Describing and dismissing something as being goofy implies that it is not worth serious thought or discussion.

[D_Davis]

Really? Are you suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure?


You really sound like someone who doesn't know what they're talking about here. Yes...I'm sure. As are many people who work within the realms of genre and fantastic fiction.

[D_Davis]

I've seen one of those three things. I'll let you guess which one.

I'm finding it hard to believe that someone as into Buffy as you are hasn't seen some other horror-comedies and Jackie Chan films! :) I guess to me the three things seem to be closely related. But then again I'm a fan of two of those things and not the other, so I guess it makes sense.

;)

Try to track down Mr. Vampire. I think it'll be the start of a very wonderful thing.

[D_Davis]

Really? Are you suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure?

Just to get this straight....

Would you describe the stories told by Lord Dunsany, MR James, Poe, Algernon Blackwood, William Hope Hodgeson, Lovecraft, and Ambrose Bierce, all authors who worked within the the realms of fantastic/horror (or more precisely "weird") fiction, as goofy?

[Irish]

You really sound like someone who doesn't know what they're talking about here. Yes...I'm sure. As are many people who work within the realms of genre and fantastic fiction.

I think I unintentionally touched a nerve here. I didn't mean to imply that "goofy = stupid."

When I say, goofy, I mean sort of joyfully silly on the face of it (and here I'm thinking of every other Hong Kong film made, but especially stuff like Heroic Trio).

The idea of the dead coming back to life is just, to me, outrageously silly (nevermind missing and inconsistent movie "rules" for zombies).

I think you can take that idea and run with it in a good post-apocalyptic way but I also think pulling that off successfully is damn hard to do. And the films that do pull it off are less about zombies themselves than mans-inhumanity-to-man.

Speaking of which, maybe zombies-as-a-metaphor is my biggest problem with them. They're unsubtle and (heh) brainless.

[Irish]

Just to get this straight....

Would you describe the stories told by Lord Dunsany, MR James, Poe, Algernon Blackwood, William Hope Hodgeson, Lovecraft, and Ambrose Bierce, all authors who worked within the the realms of fantastic/horror (or more precisely "weird") fiction, as goofy?

Just to get this straight, you're not really conflating the literary efforts of these guys with the work of George Romero and Zack Snyder, are you?

[[ETM]]

you're not really conflating the literary efforts of these guys with the work of George Romero and Zack Snyder, are you?

Isn't it the point that you are?

[Irish]

It's not the premise that is goofy, but rather it's how the premise is executed.
Interesting point, and I'm inclined to agree.

Where I run into trouble: On some level, I'll never be able to take stuff like The Sixth Sense or pure-bred zombie movies seriously. I may be able to suspend my belief for the sake of my ten bucks worth of entertainment, but that's as far as it goes.

Here's another example: Ringu/ The Ring. That's a completely assinine premise that they pulled off (in both versions) beautifully by taking it with a dead (heh) seriousness. But c'mon. That premise? Killer videotape? Dead chick crawling out of the tv? That's not goofy as hell?


Describing and dismissing something as being goofy implies that it is not worth serious thought or discussion.
Maybe, maybe not. I don't think "goofy" is quite the slur that you do. I mean, I love Hong Kong action pictures to death, but also consider stuff like Police Story, God of Gamblers and Heroic Trio to be "goofy." That doesn't mean they're not top-notch entertainments, though.

[[ETM]]

But c'mon. That premise? Killer videotape? Dead chick crawling out of the tv? That's not goofy as hell?

When you put it like that, almost any premise can be done in a "goofy" way.

[Grouchy]

;298349']Isn't it the point that you are?
Exactly.

Irish, the idea of the dead coming back to life has deep philosophical implications. It relates to the fear of death and the uncertainty about what's beyond our mortal life experiences. It's a human concern that can be translated into something goofy like Return of the Living Dead or into Edgar Allan Poe's entire body of work.

[Irish]

;298349']Isn't it the point that you are?

Clever point -- but no. I don't have a broad a definition of "fantasy" as you guys seem to have. (Shit, especially not "all fiction is fantasy").

[[ETM]]

Also, people tend to take a lot of "goofy" premises seriously, like "A guy claims he's the son of a deity, walks on water, raises the dead, turns water into wine, dies crucified and comes back to life after three days". You can turn almost anything into a goofy original premise if you try.

[Irish]

;298355']Also, people tend to take a lot of "goofy" premises seriously, like "A guy claims he's the son of a deity, walks on water, raises the dead, turns water into wine, dies crucified and comes back to life after three days". You can turn almost anything into a goofy original premise if you try.

Hmmm .. let's agree not to take the conversation in that particular direction.

[Irish]

Exactly.

Irish, the idea of the dead coming back to life has deep philosophical implications. It relates to the fear of death and the uncertainty about what's beyond our mortal life experiences. It's a human concern that can be translated into something goofy like Return of the Living Dead or into Edgar Allan Poe's entire body of work.

This is an excellent point, and I honestly hadn't consider it, not believing in any kind of afterlife myself.

But I still take issue with conflating stuff like Return with Poe. Poe was a master, and in my mind, wrote mostly pure horror. Return is great stuff, but it's honestly nowhere near in the same league. Mentioning the two in the same sentence gives some kind of legitimacy to Return that, frankly, it just doesn't have. It's like mentioning A Night at the Opera or The Gold Rush in the same breath as Weekend at Bernie's.

[D_Davis]

(Shit, especially not "all fiction is fantasy").

But it is. It's all make-believe. Some it is simply more fantastic than others.

Moby Dick - a guy chasing a whale
Don Quixote - a guy chasing imaginary dragons
The Hobbit - a quest to kill a dragon

These are all examples of a classic quest story - a fantasy. None of these really happened, they're all make-believe, drawing upon the common threads of humanity's shared mythology. Each one offers a different take on the conventions, and each offers up different levels of realism. Each also speaks to different people in different ways, but one is not more goofy than the other just because it is more fantastic.

The same can be said for zombies, and the fear of death, and the questions about the soul. These kinds of stories can be traced back probably many thousands of years. Stories about golem in Jewish folklore, which was translated into the story of Frankenstein. I don't think there is anything goofy about Frankenstein. The monster was a kind of zombie.

Or look at SF, and two stories that send the characters to space:

2001 and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. One of these is a goofy and comedic take on the genre, the other is not.

[[ETM]]

Hmmm .. let's agree not to take the conversation in that particular direction.

I'd rather not, actually, but I needed an extreme example.

[D_Davis]

I think I unintentionally touched a nerve here. I didn't mean to imply that "goofy = stupid."

When I say, goofy, I mean sort of joyfully silly on the face of it (and here I'm thinking of every other Hong Kong film made, but especially stuff like Heroic Trio).


This is partially true, because I think of the word "goofy" in a different way than you.

I'd be more inclined to describe HK films like Herioc Trio, Green Snake, Zu Warriors, and other high flying wuxia-like films as being fantastic, or gonzo, or something that, at least to me, sounds more positive than goofy or silly.

So I guess we're just arguing semantics here. Where's Robert Anton Wilson when you need him?

[Grouchy]

This is an excellent point, and I honestly hadn't consider it, not believing in any kind of afterlife myself.

But I still take issue with conflating stuff like Return with Poe. Poe was a master, and in my mind, wrote mostly pure horror. Return is great stuff, but it's honestly nowhere near in the same league. Mentioning the two in the same sentence gives some kind of legitimacy to Return that, frankly, it just doesn't have. It's like mentioning A Night at the Opera or The Gold Rush in the same breath as Weekend at Bernie's.
No, but that's precisely my point. It's not a goofy idea, because it forms the basis for great, non-goofy literature such as Poe's "Ligeia" and "Fall of the House of Usher".

However, you can make a goofy movie out of the same concept.

[D_Davis]

Just to get this straight, you're not really conflating the literary efforts of these guys with the work of George Romero and Zack Snyder, are you?


Well no. For one reason, I think Romero is a terrible writer and director. :)

However, both groups do work in the realms of fantastic fiction, and more precisely horror. Some of it is "goofy" some of it is not. It's all in the execution.

Also, however, I have no problem with mentioning Return of the Living Dead, Dan O'Bannon and Poe and Lovecraft in the same sentence. O'Bannon's script is marvelous, and I think the film deserves a lot more credit than you give it. It is an important and influential piece of the genre puzzle. It gave the zombies personalities, allowed them to talk, and was (as far as I know) the first to mention that they need brains to survive, a convention that many people now take for granted....braaaaaaaaainnss. On top of this, it's also a pretty clever comedy with creative gags and expert timing.

[[ETM]]

However, you can make a goofy movie out of the same concept.

I have absolutely no idea how Watashi isn't here already.

[D_Davis]

;298369']I have absolutely no idea how Watashi isn't here already.

I know, right? Doesn't he run a script every few minutes that auto searches the terms "goofy" and "movie"?

[megladon8]

So...D_Davis...did you like "The Walking Dead"?

[[ETM]]

I know, right? Doesn't he run a script every few minutes that auto searches the terms "goofy" and "movie"?

I think he even leaves it on while he sleeps.

[D_Davis]

So...D_Davis...did you like "The Walking Dead"?

Yeah - I thought it was excellent. But I only expect excellence from Darabont. Love that guy.

I'm really looking forward to a zombie epic.

Man, while watching I couldn't stop thinking about how awesome it would be if Darabont did a mini-series on AMC of King's The Stand.

[Irish]

Moby Dick - a guy chasing a whale
Don Quixote - a guy chasing imaginary dragons
The Hobbit - a quest to kill a dragon

The difference here -- and be warned, I'm about to commit nerd heresy -- is that two of those stories contain metaphors about the human condition, and inform on it in a meaningful way. The third contains midgets with hairy feet wrestling around over a piece of costume jewelry. (I have enormous disdain for JRR and the leagues of hack wannabes he's spawned over the last several decades).

Back to zombies -- or witches, werewolves, vampires, ghosts -- aside from being far removed from every day existence, these guys are all weak metaphors at best. They do little to nothing to inform on the human condition, they're often cheap, dramatic shortcuts, and they're about as subtle as -- again -- a hammer to the forehead. As icons of true horror I can't quite take them seriously.

To me, zombie movies have always been about the post-apocalypse. Po-mo westerns of a kind, about living in a world without laws or rules, indulging the audience in murderous daydreams and killing without consequence.

[megladon8]

Yeah - I thought it was excellent. But I only expect excellence from Darabont. Love that guy.

I'm really looking forward to a zombie epic.

Man, while watching I couldn't stop thinking about how awesome it would be if Darabont did a mini-series on AMC of King's The Stand.



Jen said this to me after we watched it -"Darabont understands horror."

I couldn't agree more. In a zombie film, it is not watching a zombie eat someone that scares you. The gore is not scary.

[megladon8]

The difference here -- and be warned, I'm about to commit nerd heresy -- is that two of those stories contain metaphors about the human condition, and inform on it in a meaningful way. The third contains midgets with hairy feet wrestling around over a piece of costume jewelry. (I have enormous disdain for JRR and the leagues of hack wannabes he's spawned over the last several decades).

Back to zombies -- or witches, werewolves, vampires, ghosts -- aside from being far removed from every day existence, these guys are all weak metaphors at best. They do little to nothing to inform on the human condition, they're often cheap, dramatic shortcuts, and they're about as subtle as -- again -- a hammer to the forehead. As icons of true horror I can't quite take them seriously.

To me, zombie movies have always been about the post-apocalypse. Po-mo westerns of a kind, about living in a world without laws or rules, indulging the audience in murderous daydreams and killing without consequence.


This post has so much wrong in it I don't even know where to start.

[D_Davis]

Jen said this to me after we watched it -"Darabont understands horror."

I couldn't agree more. In a zombie film, it is not watching a zombie eat someone that scares you. The gore is not scary.

Yeah. Darabont is really someone special. And he seems like such an insanely nice and down to earth dude.

Can't wait to see his take on The Long Walk.

[megladon8]

Yeah. Darabont is really someone special. And he seems like such an insanely nice and down to earth dude.

Can't wait to see his take on The Long Walk.


Yeah I love his array of Hawaiian shirts. :D

He seems like the type of guy you could get a beer with and just talk like you would with any of your friends, about all the nerdy stuff you loved as a kid (and still love now!).

[D_Davis]

The difference here -- and be warned, I'm about to commit nerd heresy -- is that two of those stories contain metaphors about the human condition, and inform on it in a meaningful way. The third contains midgets with hairy feet wrestling around over a piece of costume jewelry. (I have enormous disdain for JRR and the leagues of hack wannabes he's spawned over the last several decades).


I think you just have some issues to work on regarding the literary and thematic qualities of fantastic fiction. Whether or not you feel this is something that deserves your time or attention is the question, and it doesn't matter any way. We all choose what we like and don't like, and that's cool. Just be careful how you describe the things you don't like without a thorough examination and understanding of the genre.

What about the modern non-hack, non-wannabes he inspired?

It seems to me that you judge works of genre lit/cinema on the worst of its examples rather than the best of its examples.

And for the record, I don't think Tolkien is the best - I simply used The Hobbit as a well-known example.

[Raiders]

Watched it again last night when it aired. Lennie James is fantastic in his role. I'm hoping it isn't the only appearance for the character. The scene where he breaks down trying to shoot his wife and give himself closure is damn heartbreaking.

[D_Davis]

Yeah I love his array of Hawaiian shirts. :D



He seems so casual, and, best of all, he appears to absolutely LOVE what he does. I think he feels blessed to be where he's at, and his love and passion show through in everything he does.

I - heart - Darabont.

:D

[Irish]

No, but that's precisely my point. It's not a goofy idea, because it forms the basis for great, non-goofy literature such as Poe's "Ligeia" and "Fall of the House of Usher".

However, you can make a goofy movie out of the same concept.

I get what you're saying -- and again I'm inclined to agree.

What sticks in my craw, though, is that while you can technically call Ligeia and Frankenstein sort of proto-zombie stories, in the end they're much more than that. Yeah, I guess Frank is undead .. but the story Shelley told wasn't just about that. It was about the horror of his realization that, shit yeah he's dead but also his soul-crushing isolation (and the inhumanity both of those things spur in everyone around him).

The difference to me is that stuff like Snyder's Dawn and O'Bannon's Return is that the zombies are plot pieces, and the stories don't have any sort of ambition other than immediate action or comedy. The zombies are just .. zombies. Shuffling masses. (And yeah, you can read into that and throw some credit to social commentary in Romero's Dawn. I don't, but you might).

Again, that's not to say this stuff isn't entertaining ... but worth mentioning in the same breath as stuff from Poe? Eh ... not so much.

[Irish]

Well no. For one reason, I think Romero is a terrible writer and director. :)
Heh! On this one point we can definitely agree.

Btw, if you haven't already seen it check out "Tales from the Script." Your boy Darabont is interviewed a few times & says some interesting things:

http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Script-Shane-Black/dp/B00329PYH0

[D_Davis]

Heh! On this one point we can definitely agree.

Btw, if you haven't already seen it check out "Tales from the Script." Your boy Darabont is interviewed a few times & says some interesting things:

http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Script-Shane-Black/dp/B00329PYH0

:)

Thanks for that link. Never heard of that book before. Sounds great.

[D_Davis]

I can't believe that people still give Romero the time of day after Land of the Dead. Ugh. That was an example of feckless filmmaking if I've ever seen one.

But for the record, I didn't like his Dawn of the Dead much either. Night is great, and Day is pretty damn good, though.

Talk about nerd heresy!

:)

[Raiders]

I'm easy. I like all four pretty equally (a lot). Haven't seen the last two though.

[Grouchy]

Back to zombies -- or witches, werewolves, vampires, ghosts -- aside from being far removed from every day existence, these guys are all weak metaphors at best. They do little to nothing to inform on the human condition, they're often cheap, dramatic shortcuts, and they're about as subtle as -- again -- a hammer to the forehead. As icons of true horror I can't quite take them seriously.

To me, zombie movies have always been about the post-apocalypse. Po-mo westerns of a kind, about living in a world without laws or rules, indulging the audience in murderous daydreams and killing without consequence.
No. All those folklore creatures you mention are powerful symbols already on their own. Obviously, they are removed from your every day existence, because (I'm guessing here) you leave in a city with air conditioning, a phone and the internet. If you lived in the Middle Ages and had to walk long miles alone towards your house with only a candle on, I bet you'd feel differently about witches and vampires. Hell, have you ever been to the countryside? Plenty of scary legends there, and they become more real out in the nature than they could ever be in the comfort of "civilization". A more inmediate example: anyone who's ever suffered a loss of a loved one has thought seriously about ghosts at least once.

Back to films, you mentioned yourself vampire films like Let the Right One In and Cronos that have plenty to say on the human condition. That they're the exception rather than the rule only means that it's not easy to do great films about anything.

[D_Davis]

Right. Most monsters are birthed from humanity's shared mythology, and at one time represented more than simple scares for genre entertainment.

[Irish]

I think you just have some issues to work on regarding the literary and thematic qualities of fantastic fiction. Whether or not you feel this is something that deserves your time or attention is the question, and it doesn't matter any way. We all choose what we like and don't like, and that's cool. Just be careful how you describe the things you don't like without a thorough examination and understanding of the genre.

What about the modern non-hack, non-wannabes he inspired?

It seems to me that you judge works of genre lit/cinema on the worst of its examples rather than the best of its examples.

And for the record, I don't think Tolkien is the best - I simply used The Hobbit as a well-known example.

I have issues? What are you, some kind of literary therapist? :P

To be clear: Never said I didn't like stuff I describe as "goofy." Quite the opposite, in some cases. But you're right this was mostly a semantic argument from the start -- but you had the semantic issue, not me. =D

The only modern non-hack following in JRR's footsteps is maybe George RR Martin. (Although even he fumbles in amateurish ways sometimes). But we're talking about a genre where authors are encouraged to shit out doorstopper books every year (see: Jordan and his cronies and Terry Goodkind). This is another area with a low, low bar. So if I'm dismissive, I'm dismissive because 90% or more of the work out there is unabashed, unfettered junk. To feed the commercial mill, to deliver product to the genre whores out there who will buy anything with cover art by Boris Vallejo. The good stuff? Pure outliers, statistically insignificant.

I judge zombie movies harshly because it's a sub/genre that has been worked and overworked and it's a premise that was thin by the time Romero wrapped on Dawn of the Dead.

That was my issue with Walking Dead. Yeah, well done. But shit, even in the promotional stuff we're seeing images and situations we've seen a dozen times in the last decade. No matter how well produced, fuck man, that's just really dull.

[Irish]

:)

Thanks for that link. Never heard of that book before. Sounds great.

Cool. (It's a documentary, btw. If you have Netflix, you can stream it ... right now! For free).

http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Tales-from-the-Script/70131177

[megladon8]

Back to zombies -- or witches, werewolves, vampires, ghosts -- aside from being far removed from every day existence, these guys are all weak metaphors at best. They do little to nothing to inform on the human condition, they're often cheap, dramatic shortcuts, and they're about as subtle as -- again -- a hammer to the forehead. As icons of true horror I can't quite take them seriously.

I find this just so, so very closed-minded.

The creatures themselves "do little to nothing to inform the human condition", but the characters written behind them, and the story encompassing them, often have a lot to say.

Why must something be based in reality to have dramatic or moral weight? Or at least, as it seems you're saying, be "more" based in reality?

Why does the story of a bitter, angry man hunting a whale ("Moby Dick") have more to say about the human condition than the story of a man who has two very distinct sides to his persona, and struggles to keep the more evil one in check ("The Wolfman")?

Both provide very real looks at humanity, and emotions we have all felt. Many of us have felt wronged and bitter and the want for revenge to the point of it becoming an obsession ("Moby Dick"), and many of us have also felt that we have two (or sometimes more) very different personalities within us - certain sides that we only show in certain situations.



To me, zombie movies have always been about the post-apocalypse. Po-mo westerns of a kind, about living in a world without laws or rules, indulging the audience in murderous daydreams and killing without consequence.

This is just wrong.

If all you've ever gotten out of zombie films is some twisted, consequence-free murder fantasy, then you've either not seen many zombie movies, or you judge the whole sub-genre on the STV crap that pops up on video store shelves every Tuesday.

[Grouchy]

I get what you're saying -- and again I'm inclined to agree.

What sticks in my craw, though, is that while you can technically call Ligeia and Frankenstein sort of proto-zombie stories, in the end they're much more than that. Yeah, I guess Frank is undead .. but the story Shelley told wasn't just about that. It was about the horror of his realization that, shit yeah he's dead but also his soul-crushing isolation (and the inhumanity both of those things spur in everyone around him).

The difference to me is that stuff like Snyder's Dawn and O'Bannon's Return is that the zombies are plot pieces, and the stories don't have any sort of ambition other than immediate action or comedy. The zombies are just .. zombies. Shuffling masses. (And yeah, you can read into that and throw some credit to social commentary in Romero's Dawn. I don't, but you might).

Again, that's not to say this stuff isn't entertaining ... but worth mentioning in the same breath as stuff from Poe? Eh ... not so much.
Well, that's the difference between a story that aims at making the audience question things about their existence (like Mary Shelley's Frankenstein) and a story that's purely meant as entertainment (like O'Bannon's Living Dead films) - nobody will disagree with you on that.

But yeah, I do throw a lot of credit into Romero's early zombie films, specially Night and Dawn. I think they're on the Mary Shelley side of the spectrum.

[Irish]

No. All those folklore creatures you mention are powerful symbols already on their own. Obviously, they are removed from your every day existence, because (I'm guessing here) you leave in a city with air conditioning, a phone and the internet. If you lived in the Middle Ages and had to walk long miles alone towards your house with only a candle on, I bet you'd feel differently about witches and vampires. Hell, have you ever been to the countryside? Plenty of scary legends there, and they become more real out in the nature than they could ever be in the comfort of "civilization". A more inmediate example: anyone who's ever suffered a loss of a loved one has thought seriously about ghosts at least once.

Back to films, you mentioned yourself vampire films like Let the Right One In and Cronos that have plenty to say on the human condition. That they're the exception rather than the rule only means that it's not easy to do great films about anything.

Well, fuck, another really good post. I wish you guys would stop being so articulate. ;-).

Going to hold back the snark -- oh, hell, no I'm not -- Grouch, it's 2010. What was relevant and meaningful in the 15th century isn't so much now.

Hell, what was relevant 30 or 40 years ago isn't now either. This is why, I think, modern audiences are more apt to laugh at The Exorcist or Rosemary's Baby than not (even though, if you take either of those two stories as intended, at face value, they're quite fucked up and chilling).

What I don't get -- and continue to be confused about -- is (outside of the Twilight stuff) why vampire and zombie stories continue to be made and seem to continue to resonate with people year after year. It honestly makes no sense to me at all.

(Seriously, if you've got an idea, speak up. I'd honestly love to hear it). (I mean that last sentence, please don't read snark into that one).

[Irish]

But yeah, I do throw a lot of credit into Romero's early zombie films, specially Night and Dawn. I think they're on the Mary Shelley side of the spectrum.

I've always really appreciated & enjoyed the more heady discussions of Romero's early Dead films ... but after seeing the rest of his stuff and hearing him speak at live appearances ... the guy's really just not that bright.

Certainly not bright or skilled enough to come up with the "Vietnam" subtext to Night. I think that was all about runaway college kids with Cahiers du Cinema fetishes getting published in major magazines.

[Irish]

Why must something be based in reality to have dramatic or moral weight? Or at least, as it seems you're saying, be "more" based in reality?

Why does the story of a bitter, angry man hunting a whale ("Moby Dick") have more to say about the human condition than the story of a man who has two very distinct sides to his persona, and struggles to keep the more evil one in check ("The Wolfman")?

You're right, it doesn't. I mean, you can even go with recent pop-cult stuff like Joss Whedon's Angel, a story that was less about vampires and demons and more about a guy wracked with massive amounts of guilt and desperately looking for any kind of redemption.

That's all great stuff. Where I take issue is when you look at the broader spectrum and include the slim, superficial work, the one-off entertainments under some kind of big "fantasy" umbrella and proclaiming it has merit almost because it exists.

It's the difference between, say, any of those original stories by HG Wells or whomeever and dreck like Hollow Man or Underworld: Rise of the Lycans.

[megladon8]

You're right, it doesn't. I mean, you can even go with recent pop-cult stuff like Joss Whedon's Angel, a story that was less about vampires and demons and more about a guy wracked with massive amounts of guilt and desperately looking for any kind of redemption.

That's all great stuff. Where I take issue is when you look at the broader spectrum and include the slim, superficial work, the one-off entertainments under some kind of big "fantasy" umbrella and proclaiming it has merit almost because it exists.

It's the difference between, say, any of those original stories by HG Wells or whomeever and dreck like Hollow Man or Underworld: Rise of the Lycans.


But the same could be said about the terrible, superficial adaptations of classic literary works.

I seriously doubt that the upcoming 3D version of Gulliver's Travels starring Jack Black is going to have much insight into the human condition.

[Irish]

This is just wrong.

If all you've ever gotten out of zombie films is some twisted, consequence-free murder fantasy, then you've either not seen many zombie movies, or you judge the whole sub-genre on the STV crap that pops up on video store shelves every Tuesday.

This made me laugh, in a good way.

Friend, I'm here to tell you that the "twisted fantasy" is all I've ever gotten out of zombie films. Because 9 times out of 10, that's all there is to them -- and the producers know that, and play it for all it's worth. And the audiences know it too, and my argument is: it's a least in part why they're showing up in the first place.

It's the bullshit American fantasy (oops, wrong word?) about the lone gunman on the prairie, making their own law as they go along. And fuck, as an American I gotta say I find that really appealing.

To put it another way: Stuff like High Plains Drifter, Road Warrior, and Dawn of the Dead have a lot in common.

[[ETM]]

I seriously doubt that the upcoming 3D version of Gulliver's Travels starring Jack Black is going to have much insight into the human condition.

It's gonna have a huge iPhone. That much is certain.

[Irish]

I seriously doubt that the upcoming 3D version of Gulliver's Travels starring Jack Black is going to have much insight into the human condition.
It's got a goofy premise too. :D

[number8]

Oh yeah? WELL WHAT IF IT'S A FRENCH ZOMBIE MOVIE?

http://rmercier.ifrance.com/Affiche%20Les%20Revenants.jpg





Seriously, though, it's a great movie (http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/movie-news/4112-watch-out-they-came-back-2004.html).

[Grouchy]

Okay, I'm going to answer the three points separately.

1. I admit that I laugh at The Exorcist, but mostly because of the money shots like the crucifix fucking. I grew up with South Park and I'm not religious so that shit is funny. I still consider it a great film about faith, it's just that its shock value is lost. I've seen Rosemary's Baby over ten times, but it's still unsettling for me because it's not about money shots. It just hits a very deep nerve about trust and motherhood. The ordeal is more psychological than physical, so it's less likely to age badly. In fact, if I could remove one shot from the film, it would be the tiny one-second demonic eyes shown near the ending.

2. I think vampire and zombie films are still being made simply because people are still being born, and they're still encountering those images for the very first time. Why do fictional heroes or superheroes still exist? Same reason. The archetype of the hero will most likely never die and will only change with the times. From Gilgamesh to Don Quixote to Batman, every hero has something to say about the times were it has been created. It's the same with vampires - they have been used as metaphors for drug addiction (The Addiction), sex obsessions (The Hunger), maturity (Let the Right One In), whatever, you name it.

3. Regarding Vietnam and Night of the Living Dead, I'm of the opinion that even if Romero didn't intend it to be there (which I doubt), if a large number of people found the film allusive to that social problem, then the zeitgeist (sp?) permeated the film enough that the subtext is there, whether intentional or not. It's a much larger discussion, though.

Dude, you're talking to a guy who leaves work every Tuesday and runs to a punk rock bar where people cosplay as zombies and drink like there's no tomorrow and get all excited about seeing films like The Toxic Avenger and Blood Freak on a big screen. You're gonna have a hard time convincing me that the Horror genre is obsolete.

[Irish]

@Grouchy

1. Excellent points about both Exorcist and Baby.

2. What's weird though is that Gilgamesh and Batman are individual characters more or less fixed in a specific point in time, but vampires and zombies are generic and span decades if not centuries.

3. Point taken.

Never wanted to convince anyone horror is obsolete!

At most, that zombie movies are done. Tired. Dull by default. Out of horror-monster subgenres it's easily the most limited. Walking Dead's overuse and borrowing from films that came out less than 10 years ago illustrates this problem.

[Grouchy]

At most, that zombie movies are done. Tired. Dull by default. Out of horror-monster subgenres it's easily the most limited. Walking Dead's overuse and borrowing from films that came out less than 10 years ago illustrates this problem.
Maybe. Until someone does a completely different take on them. Like They Came Back, which I haven't seen but I've always heard great stuff about.

The Walking Dead is not that innovative take. It's a traditional zombie story that, instead of being a film, it's a long TV series. Like I said, I go to a bar where people do zombie cosplay. I'll watch every episode.

[Mara]

Oh yeah? WELL WHAT IF IT'S A FRENCH ZOMBIE MOVIE?

http://rmercier.ifrance.com/Affiche%20Les%20Revenants.jpg





Seriously, though, it's a great movie (http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/movie-news/4112-watch-out-they-came-back-2004.html).

Do the zombies themselves speak French?

This is important to me.

[Irish]

Maybe. Until someone does a completely different take on them. Like They Came Back, which I haven't seen but I've always heard great stuff about.
I have no faith -- but then again I never would have imagined something like that The Sopranos coming along and reinvigorating the gangster genre in a post-Goodfellas/Pulp Fiction environment.


The Walking Dead is not that innovative take. It's a traditional zombie story that, instead of being a film, it's a long TV series. Like I said, I go to a bar where people do zombie cosplay. I'll watch every episode.
I'll watch every episode too ... mostly because I'm desperate for decent TV and this season, everything is failing me. :sad:

[number8]

Do the zombies themselves speak French?

This is important to me.

Spanish.

[D_Davis]

The only modern non-hack following in JRR's footsteps is maybe George RR Martin.

Ever read J.M. McDermott's The Last Dragon? It is absolutely brilliant. One of the best books I've ever read, genre or not. And it was published around 2006.

Gene Wolfe has been called the best writer working in the English language today, and he writes fantasy.

Thomas Ligotti, another modern author, has been hailed as the third pillar of American horror, following Poe and Lovecraft.

And there is Michael Cisco, and his weird fantasy The Divinity Student, which is probably my favorite fantasy, and it was written this decade.

There is a lot of good stuff being made today. We just don't have the benefit of time as the great filter.

[D_Davis]

To put it another way: Stuff like High Plains Drifter, Road Warrior, and Dawn of the Dead have a lot in common.

Oh, for sure. See, we agree sometimes. :)

[D_Davis]

Cool. (It's a documentary, btw. If you have Netflix, you can stream it ... right now! For free).

http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Tales-from-the-Script/70131177

Sweet, thanks.

[D_Davis]

So if I'm dismissive, I'm dismissive because 90% or more of the work out there is unabashed, unfettered junk.

Are you familiar with Sturgeon's Law? (Ever read Theodore Sturgeon?)

Basically, 90% of everything is total garbage. But time is the great filter. In 50 years from now people will be saying the same thing, and commenting on how great the fiction from the '00s was because the truly great stuff is more likely to survive.

[megladon8]

90% of everything is junk, not just "goofy" fiction.

If you're going to be dismissive, at least do it evenly :P

[Irish]

Basically, 90% of everything is total garbage. But time is the great filter. In 50 years from now people will be saying the same thing, and commenting on how great the fiction from the '00s was because the truly great stuff is more likely to survive.
Yeah I was being generous. It's much higher than the ninety. :P

None of this stuff is going to be remembered. It's pointless, soulless, and doesn't amount to much more than a 90 minute distraction. (In fiction, sword and sorcery fantasy has to be the most hopelessly derivative genre out there.)

I love (loved?) genre stuff for a loooooong time. But that's been beaten out of me over the last few years or so --- to much shit out there like Van Helsing, Kick Ass, and .. GI Joe :D

Edit: Looking at the lineup for 2011, with the entire year being stuffed with "summer blockbuster" types -- I think there's something like 11 fucking superhero movies slotted -- really makes me want to give up any kind of fandom whatsoever.

[[ETM]]

On the contrary, I think this is the time where the fandom should flourish, by embracing the good and ignoring the bad. I consider myself a genre fan, and I don't plan on seeing (or at least paying for) any of the superhero movies in 2011, nor any other by-the-numbers blockbuster. I may see Whedon's Avengers some day, only because I love his work.

[D_Davis]

I love (loved?) genre stuff for a loooooong time. But that's been beaten out of me over the last few years or so --- to much shit out there like Van Helsing, Kick Ass, and .. GI Joe :D
.

See, I always try to judge stuff based on the best of its examples, and not the worst, and there is too much good stuff being made for me to enjoy all of it.

[megladon8]

None of this stuff is going to be remembered. It's pointless, soulless, and doesn't amount to much more than a 90 minute distraction. (In fiction, sword and sorcery fantasy has to be the most hopelessly derivative genre out there.)

I love (loved?) genre stuff for a loooooong time. But that's been beaten out of me over the last few years or so --- to much shit out there like Van Helsing, Kick Ass, and .. GI Joe :D


This still just seems so hopelessly closed-minded to me.

You got sick of the shit coming out, so you now turn a blind eye to even the good stuff?

There is not a single genre or "area" of fiction that has a higher level of "quality vs. crap".

There is some great sword and sorcery stuff out there. Yes, there is a much higher ratio of crap, but there's a much higher ratio of crap in every genre.

Ugh...this is frustrating.

[soitgoes...]

It struck me as weird when watching this that they don't call a zombie a zombie. It is as if in zombie world there has never been any cinematic or literary equivalent of a zombie. Then it got me wondering if this is common in most zombie films. I can't recall.

[Irish]

See, I always try to judge stuff based on the best of its examples, and not the worst, and there is too much good stuff being made for me to enjoy all of it.
I'm thinking mostly of American releases, and I'm not seeing "too much good stuff" out there (especially in horror).

Point me in a direction.

[Irish]

You got sick of the shit coming out, so you now turn a blind eye to even the good stuff?
What good stuff? Where is this good stuff you people keep talking about?

This is an environment which is "rebooting" major comic book franchises in less than 10 years. They're making $200 million dollar pictures based on toy commercials from the 1980s. I mean, more Spider-man films? More Hulk? Don't you just find stuff like that boring and repetitive as hell?


There is some great sword and sorcery stuff out there. Yes, there is a much higher ratio of crap, but there's a much higher ratio of crap in every genre.
Yeah .. my contention is that particular genre is really, really limited and has been so since its modern inception with JRR. There's not a lot of room there to manuever or take things in a new, interesting direction. You're stuck with the same archtypes and retelling small variants of hero with a thousand faces. If you stray too much from these narrow definitions, suddenly you're outside the genre and, unfortunately, non-commercial.

Science fiction has similar problems. In some ways, so does horror.


Ugh...this is frustrating.
Think of how I feel! I can't find anything to watch! :sad:

[EyesWideOpen]

Think of how I feel! I can't find anything to watch! :sad:

If you can't find anything to watch then I think you need to find a new hobby.

[Raiders]

It struck me as weird when watching this that they don't call a zombie a zombie. It is as if in zombie world there has never been any cinematic or literary equivalent of a zombie. Then it got me wondering if this is common in most zombie films. I can't recall.

Yeah, we discussed this a couple pages back. It is almost never uttered in "serious" zombie films.

[D_Davis]

I'm thinking mostly of American releases, and I'm not seeing "too much good stuff" out there (especially in horror).

Point me in a direction.

I wasn't speaking about just moves - I meant everything: books, music, games, etc. There are just too many good things being made to enjoy all of them. I've actually pushed movies way down to the very bottom of the list of ways I like to spend my free time.

I did recommend some recent books on the last page though.

Modern Horror/Fantasy/Fantastic fiction:

The Last Dragon - JM McDermott
The Divinity Student - Michael Cisco
Teatro Grotesco/My Work is Not Yet Done - Thomas Ligotti
Dark Harvest - Norman Partridge
The Joe Pitt series - Charlie Huston

[megladon8]

What good stuff? Where is this good stuff you people keep talking about?

This is an environment which is "rebooting" major comic book franchises in less than 10 years. They're making $200 million dollar pictures based on toy commercials from the 1980s. I mean, more Spider-man films? More Hulk? Don't you just find stuff like that boring and repetitive as hell?

There have always been terrible, expensive movies. I really don't understand why you're acting as if this is a new thing.

Similarly, there have been remakes and sequels up the wazoo for decades. In the '50s it wasn't uncommon for a bad sci-fi movie to have 10 or 12 sequels, all just as bad or worse.

You want good sci fi? Check out Moon, A Scanner Darkly, or Children of Men.

Good fantasy? Pan's Labyrinth, Big Fish or just about anything by Miyazaki.

Good horror? [REC], Let the Right One In or Frozen.


The theatres are always going to have tons of crap overwhelming the gems, but that's not different than 10, 20 or 60 years ago.

Like D brought up yesterday, Sturgeon's Law is quite true. 90% of everything always was, is, and always will be crap. Time is the great equalizer, and all the terrible superhero movie reboots and inept horror movies will be filtered out of memory in about 10 years.


With the advent of the internet and how much that has changed and affected the world and media, movies that wouldn't typically be large-release, popular films are getting much more attention.

Look at Pan's Labyrinth. There is no way that, 20 years ago, that would have ended up a wide-release movie making a fairly huge chunk of change in the domestic market. Sure, it probably would have still gotten some attention come awards season, but I saw Pan's Labyrinth at an AMC in Ottawa. Just 10 years ago, this would have been unheard of.

So big-budget blockbusters aren't your cup of tea 99.9% of the time? Well, lucky for you, we're living in a time when that really doesn't limit your film selection at all.

[number8]

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ring.

[megladon8]

Another great episode.

Have to say I didn't find it quite as impressive as the first, perhaps because it didn't carry the emotional punch that the premiere did, but that's obviously not what they were going for with this one anyways.

What we did get was some incredible tension. That whole final 15 minutes was just insane in how it had Jen, her family, and I on the edges of our seats.

[Ezee E]

Oh yeah... Forgot about this. Thank you DVR.

[ledfloyd]

i thought it was a step down from the pilot. i never really felt any tension at all. the rooker character was pretty awful. it kind of felt like treading water, i don't think the show is really going to take off until they get back to the camp and start developing some characters, which i thought would happen this episode but it looks like they are delaying it. the only thing that worries me about that is i've been less than impressed with the acting. still enjoying it though.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Very much a "setting the table" episode, with the way it spends so much time establishing the new batch of characters. Not great, but good for sure, and I agree with Braden on the ending. The scenes with Rick and Glenn in the middle of the street had my butt puckered, and, technically, I knew the guys were gonna be fine.

[MadMan]

Pretty suspenseful episode for the most part, which I really enjoyed. Of course this wasn't going to be better than the pilot, which was geared to be truly amazing while as DaMU notes this one was simply introducing new characters and setting the stage for something else down the road. This is one show where its hour running time seems to hamper its ability to further unleash something more powerful, or deeper. Which to me is one of the downsides to making a TV show that has the look, feel, and appearance of a movie.

[Dukefrukem]

I fucking fell asleep during this last night... :mad:

[ledfloyd]

the avclub write up focuses on how awful the rooker character is. i really hope he's not around for very long.

[Raiders]

Didn't like the Rooker character. I like the idea of showing how truly petty bigotry is by exposing it to a post-apocalyptic environment, but he was not very convincing (perhaps the actor's fault as much as anything). The resolution (at least for now) was somewhat clever as it calls fate and karma into the equation and also leads to doubt on the other characters' parts.

The Shane/Lori thing feels way off; I'm guessing they'll explain that this was going on before the apocalypse (they've got to account for the casualness of it somehow) but I don't know. Just seems kinda useless when there is already so much going on and potential storylines to reduce it to this. I would prefer the show utilize it to illustrate the need for intimacy in the face of such disaster (seems like this is what the comic did), but the attitudes of the two characters don't display that at all.

It was a solid episode still, but felt kind of like nothing more than a link between episodes 1 and 3 (the reunion of Rick and his family and Shane).

[ledfloyd]

It was a solid episode still, but felt kind of like nothing more than a link between episodes 1 and 3 (the reunion of Rick and his family and Shane).
i agree, and kind of an unnecessary link.

[number8]

Ideally, we'd have Darabont directing and writing every episode, but alas, improbable.

[Irish]

On one hand they made a better zombie movie with this 1 episode than most of the zombie pictures made in the last ten or fifteen years.

On the other hand, far too many plot points here rely on coincidence. The bit with the rain you could see coming a mile away.

The key bouncing into the drain ... really? What a wasted character moment. It would have been far more telling and interesting if the black guy had looked at the bigot and said "fuck you" and dropped the key off the roof, murdering him by default. Instead of being a clumsy footed oaf and crying about it later.

Gotta admit I grinned when they chopped up the body to smell like zombies. That is something I hadn't seen before. Clever.

The Shane subplot ... so ... this guy is fucking his best friend's wife after .. what? 3 months max? What the hell is that about?

Not for nothing, but I liked that the asian guy takes a command/lead position in the plot. You almost never see that in American stuff.

[Irish]

Like D brought up yesterday, Sturgeon's Law is quite true. 90% of everything always was, is, and always will be crap. Time is the great equalizer, and all the terrible superhero movie reboots and inept horror movies will be filtered out of memory in about 10 years.
Megladon, good post on your point, and I see your points but unfortunately I don't think I articulated myself well at the start.

This isn't so much about Sturgeon's law but a new and different kind of environment. One that I find exhausting and, really, pretty boring.

In that Tales from the Script documentary, they interviewed the guy who wrote Pump Up the Volume, a teen comedy made in the early nineties. One thing he said that struck me is that that movie couldn't get made today because it's too "small" a movie. It had a bankable star, but the script wasn't based on an existing property, it didn't have a built in audience, and it had a miniscule budget.

Read some screenwriter blogs. Talk to some of those people. They fucked themselves over in the last strike, because the studios realized they could support their businesses by doing fewer films at bigger budgets and wider releases. (Where Warner used to have 300 films in development in any given year, now they have a fraction of that (maybe 50? 100?) with even less get produced to release).

So the studios don't really do "development" anymore. If you want to get a movie made these days, you've got to bring them a complete package of stars, director, final draft script, [i]and[i] and an audience. The money just isn't there for any other kind of project.

This is why theatrical releases are now dominated by tentpole pictures revolving around existing franchises (Toy Story, Iron Man, etc). This why you see guys like M Night Shalayman and Kevin Smith doing work-for-hire projects. This is why guys like Ridley Scott and Oliver Stone are returning to their earlier stuff to mine for new material. It's the only way they can work.

I like the heady, goofy genre stuff, but not when that's all there is 9 months out of the year. Not when so many ideas are recycled and regurgitated over and over again -- and in less than a decade.

This is like being invited to an all you can eat buffet and discovering they only serve ... ham. No matter how much you dig on swine, eventually you'll lose your appetite for it.

[Wryan]

I discovered formally that we do not have AMC. Any legal way to view it online?

[Irish]

I discovered formally that we do not have AMC. Any legal way to view it online?

Hulu has the first episode up for free (with commericals), but they're not streaming any of the others:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/190905/the-walking-dead-days-gone-bye

iTunes has a subscription to the first season (6 epis?) for $10:

http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewTVSeason?id=395373961&s=143441

Amazon is streaming it for $2 an episode:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004A8EI9M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=digital-video&qid=1289063935&sr=8-1

[Dukefrukem]

AMC orders another 13 episodes.

[number8]

The resolution (at least for now) was somewhat clever as it calls fate and karma into the equation and also leads to doubt on the other characters' parts.

This is one of the better bleaker aspects of the comic and I hope to see it play out in the show. Someone always does something sincere that gets misconstrued by the others, leading to dangling doubts and backpocketed for later justification when a confrontation occurs.

[Acapelli]

Ideally, we'd have Darabont directing and writing every episode, but alas, improbable.
thinking about this, i wonder if the series is going to take a "Mist" like turn

such a frustrating movie to watch

[number8]

thinking about this, i wonder if the series is going to take a "Mist" like turn

such a frustrating movie to watch

Just... Just shut up.

[Irish]

Just... Just shut up.

:lol:

[Acapelli]

Just... Just shut up.

NO

YOU shut up

[EyesWideOpen]

Just watched the second episode and it was a huge step down from the first. Smarter, faster zombies, a cliche race war, a huge uninteresting cast not in the comics when the whole point is a tight knit group. I really hope this isn't the direction the show is going.

[ledfloyd]

Just watched the second episode and it was a huge step down from the first. Smarter, faster zombies, a cliche race war, a huge uninteresting cast not in the comics when the whole point is a tight knit group. I really hope this isn't the direction the show is going.

couldn't agree more.

[number8]

So I'm re-reading the first few issues just to note the differences, and it really struck me just how much Darabont improved on the comic.

[number8]

It also reminded me that the comic has no problems using the word "zombie."

[number8]

Right, so this is 6 episodes. I know people expect that it's going to cover the first TPB, ending with you-know-who's death, but judging from the pacing of the show so far, I'm going to wager a guess and say that the ending of the finale will actually be...

The RV group going into the empty gated community and taking up homes. It's going to look like a happy ending for the group, and then the snow melts and we see the sign on the gate: ALL DEAD, DO NOT ENTER. Cut to black.

[MadMan]

Right, so this is 6 episodes. I know people expect that it's going to cover the first TPB, ending with you-know-who's death, but judging from the pacing of the show so far, I'm going to wager a guess and say that the ending of the finale will actually be...

The RV group going into the empty gated community and taking up homes. It's going to look like a happy ending for the group, and then the snow melts and we see the sign on the gate: ALL DEAD, DO NOT ENTER. Cut to black.That would be a fantastic way to end the season.

[ledfloyd]

So I'm re-reading the first few issues just to note the differences, and it really struck me just how much Darabont improved on the comic.
i don't agree. i did like that he gave the opening time to sink in, but i really don't see what's gained by adding all the flat caricatured characters he added in the second episode.

also prior to watching the show i was thinking it would end with them arriving at the prison but given the pacing of the show your ending seems more likely and would be fucking badass.

[number8]

i don't agree. i did like that he gave the opening time to sink in, but i really don't see what's gained by adding all the flat caricatured characters he added in the second episode.

Oh, I was just talking about the first issue. Everything from Rick's wake-up in the hospital to his rush back home to his interaction with Morgan and his son to their trip to the precinct to his mercy execution of the lady zombie in the field. All the beats are the same but the dialogue, attitude, context, etc are all MASSIVELY improved. There's like no drama whatsoever in Rick finding his house empty or the scene with Morgan and his son. They just... bump into each other, Morgan gives him exposition on zombies, then they part ways. The addition of the zombie wife subplot and the fact that they have to hole up in the house all dark and quiet because they're surrounded are just remarkable choices. In the comic, they're like sitting pretty with a fireplace burning and not leaving because the neighborhood has no zombies. The grave concern for Rick's wife and kid is almost non-existent.

I'm not wild about the fact that the second episode is filler, but it seems like a good choice to extend the escape from Atlanta. Re-reading the second issue, it does seem way too easy that Rick just happens to accidentally bump into Glenn in an alley and they just hop rooftops to the edge of the city.

One thing that's definitely done better in the comic is the rain sequence, though. I like how it's actually set up by Rick noticing the cloudy sky and there's a ticking clock element of getting out quickly before it rains. And then when they're running through the horde, it's much more suspenseful that they're pushing a shopping cart full of guns through the city instead of just trying to get to a truck down the block.

[ledfloyd]

well in that case i'm pretty much in complete agreement.

[Ezee E]

Meh. I fell asleep for fifteen minutes of it.

[EyesWideOpen]

Another not-good episode. I'm extremely worried now.

[ledfloyd]

i thought this episode was a vast improvement on last weeks. still had it's problems though.

[megladon8]

Another not-good episode. I'm extremely worried now.


Whaaaaat?

It was much better than last week's (which was not bad at all, just not as good as the premiere).

This was a great episode. Had some great emotional moments, as well as some more thick tension.

Good stuff.