Revisiting Match Cut Directors Consensus - Stanley Kubrick

[dreamdead]

So we're going slightly out of order, but it's for the benefit of the zoom in/out commentary that is happening right now...

So let's see them ratings of Kubrick's filmography, from earliest to last work if at all possible...

http://im.rediff.com/movies/2006/nov/02kubric.jpg

[StanleyK]

Fear and Desire - 6.5
Killer's Kiss - 8
The Killing - 9.5
Paths of Glory - 10
Spartacus - 8.5
Lolita - 8.5
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 9.5
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 10
Barry Lyndon - 10
The Shining - 10
Full Metal Jacket - 9.5
Eyes Wide Shut - 9.5

Eh... the guy's okay.

[Yxklyx]

The Killing - 8
Paths of Glory - 8
Spartacus - 6
Lolita - 6
Dr. Strangelove - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 8
Barry Lyndon - 6
The Shining - 10
Full Metal Jacket - 6
Eyes Wide Shut - 6

[Raiders]

Killer's Kiss (1955) 5.0
The Killing (1956) 8.0
Paths of Glory (1957) 9.0
Spartacus (1960) 5.5
Lolita (1962) 6.0
Dr. Strangelove (1964) 9.0
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) 10.0
A Clockwork Orange (1971) 7.5
Barry Lyndon (1975) 9.5
The Shining (1980) 8.5
Full Metal Jacket (1987) 6.5
Eyes Wide Shut (1999) 8.0

[soitgoes...]

Killer’s Kiss (1955) - 4.0
The Killing (1956) - 8.0
Paths of Glory (1957) - 10
Spartacus (1960) - 8.0
Dr. Strangelove (1964) - 9.5
2001: A Space Oddyssey (1968) - 9.5
A Clockwork Orange (1971) - 7.0
Barry Lyndon (1975) - 10
The Shining (1980) - 7.0
Full Metal Jacket (1987) - 7.0
Eyes Wide Shut (1999) - 7.0

[Sycophant]

Oh, hey. Time for me to out myself as a loser.

Spartacus 7.5
Dr. Strangelove 9.0
2001: A Space Odyssey 10.0
A Clockwork Orange 9.0

[Ivan Drago]

Dr. Strangelove 7
2001: A Space Odyssey 9.5
A Clockwork Orange 10
The Shining 8.5
Full Metal Jacket 8.5
Eyes Wide Shut 9

[Raiders]

Oh, hey. Time for me to out myself as a loser.

It's not the number of films seen that defines us my dear sycophant, but our ability to list films in chronological order as requested.

[Melville]

The Killing (1956) 6.5
Paths of Glory (1957) 7
Spartacus (1960) 5.5
Lolita (1962) 5
Dr. Strangelove (1964) 9.5
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) 10.0
A Clockwork Orange (1971) 9.5
Barry Lyndon (1975) 8.5
The Shining (1980) 4
Full Metal Jacket (1987) 7
Eyes Wide Shut (1999) 9

[D_Davis]

Dr. Strangelove - 9
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 8
The Shining - 8
Full Metal Jacket - 7
Eyes Wide Shut - 9

[Sycophant]

It's not the number of films seen that defines us my dear sycophant, but our ability to list films in chronological order as requested.

Ahem. Whoops.

[Mara]

Hmm. I've seen more than I would have supposed.

Spartacus: 8.0
Lolita: 6.5
Dr. Strangelove: OHILTSW&LTB: 10
2001: ASO: 9.0
A Clockwork Orange: 7.5
The Shining: 8.5
Eyes Wide Shut: 2.0

[dreamdead]

Paths of Glory (1957) 9.0
Spartacus (1960) 5
Dr. Strangelove (1964) 7.0
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) 10.0
A Clockwork Orange (1971) 6.5
Barry Lyndon (1975) 9.5
The Shining (1980) 7.0
Full Metal Jacket (1987) 7.5
Eyes Wide Shut (1999) 8.0

[BuffaloWilder]

Dr. Strangelove - 7.9
2001: A Space Odyssey - 7.0
A Clockwork Orange - 9.5
The Shining - 9.5
Full Metal Jacket - 8.0
Eyes Wide Shut - 6.0

[Mysterious Dude]

Killer's Kiss - 7
The Killing - 9
Paths of Glory - 9.5
Spartacus - 7.5
Lolita - 6.5
Dr. Strangelove - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 8.5
A Clockwork Orange - 7
Barry Lyndon - 6
The Shining - 6.5
Full Metal Jacket - 7.5
Eyes Wide Shut - 5.5

[Spinal]

Killer's Kiss - 4
The Killing - 7.5
Paths of Glory - 9
Spartacus - 7
Lolita - 7
Dr. Strangelove - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 10
Barry Lyndon - 8.5
The Shining - 8.5
Full Metal Jacket - 8
Eyes Wide Shut - 8

[Pop Trash]

The Killing -9
Paths of Glory -8
Lolita -6
Dr. Strangelove -8
2001: A Space Odyssey -10
A Clockwork Orange -9
Barry Lyndon -9
The Shining -10
Full Metal Jacket -8
Eyes Wide Shut -6

[baby doll]

Killer's Kiss (1955) [5]
The Killing (1957) [8]
Paths of Glory (1957) [7]
Lolita (1962) [5]
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964) [8]
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) [10]
A Clockwork Orange (1971) [5]
Barry Lyndon (1975) [9]
The Shining (1980) [9]
Full Metal Jacket (1987) [8]
Eyes Wide Shut (1999) [9]

[Watashi]

The Killing - 8.5
Paths of Glory - 9
Spartacus - 8
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 8.5
Full Metal Jacket - 9
Eyes Wide Shut - 9.5

[BuffaloWilder]

A Clockwork Orange (1971) [5]


I'm both intrigued and horrified.

Funny thing, it's been a while since I last watched 2001, so I think I'll watch that tonight. If I remember correctly, my last thoughts on it were somewhere between "this really is very interesting" and "Jesus Christ just get on with it, seriously."

Hmmm.

[Pop Trash]

I'm both intrigued and horrified.

It's not that surprising. There have been a few pro/con ACO discussions on this website.

[baby doll]

I'm both intrigued and horrified.It's watchable enough, but along with Lolita, it's easily the least of his British films. It's indicative of the film's weaknesses that before they kill the hobo, he has enough time to holler at them a whole spiel about all that's wrong with the world.

[Ezee E]

The Killing - 10
Paths of Glory - 8
Spartacus - 6.5
Lolita - 7
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 10
Barry Lyndon - 8.5
The Shining - 10
Full Metal Jacket - 10
Eyes Wide Shut - 10

[BuffaloWilder]

It's watchable enough, but along with Lolita, it's easily the least of his British films. It's indicative of the film's weaknesses that before they kill the hobo, he has enough time to holler at them a whole spiel about all that's wrong with the world.

...I'm not seeing the flaw here.

[Dead & Messed Up]

How long is this bad boy open? Because there are four Kubricks on Netflix Insta-Watch.

Anyway:

Spartacus - 7/10
Dr. Strangelove - 8/10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10/10
The Shining - 6/10
Eyes Wide Shut - 8/10

[Qrazy]

Killer's Kiss - 6
The Killing - 7.5
Paths of Glory - 9.5
Spartacus - 8
Lolita - 8.5
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 8
2001: A Space Odyssey - 9.5
A Clockwork Orange - 8
Barry Lyndon - 7.5
The Shining - 8.5
Full Metal Jacket - 7
Eyes Wide Shut - 7

[Qrazy]

I'm not fond of these low Lolita grades. The film isn't perfect but it's quite excellent and frequently hilarious. It's a much funnier film than most of the contemporary comedies released these days. I would hope people would not give a higher rating to I Love You Man or Superbad over this one.

[baby doll]

...I'm not seeing the flaw here.It's too talky! And while I'm generally the one arguing against depth, I do think it's necessary not to spell certain things out too clearly for the viewer. You can imply something without saying directly, "They've robbed him of his humanity!"

[BuffaloWilder]

It's too talky! And while I'm generally the one arguing against depth, I do think it's necessary not to spell certain things out too clearly for the viewer. You can imply something without saying directly, "They've robbed him of his humanity!"

I don't remember that line of dialogue.

[baby doll]

I don't remember that line of dialogue.It's been a while since I've seen the flick, but I remembered some one saying something to that effect regarding Alex's brain-washing.

When I did a search of the screenplay (http://www.indelibleinc.com/kubrick/films/clockwork/coscript.html) for the word "human," here's what came up:

"I tell you, sir, they have turned this young man into something other than a human being. He has no power of choice any more. He's committed to socially acceptable acts, a little machine capable only of good... He can be the most potent weapon imaginable to ensure that the Government is not returned at the next election. The Government's great boast, as you know sir, is the way they have dealt with crime in the last few months. Recruiting brutal young roughs into the police, proposing debilitation and will-sapping techniques of conditioning. Oh, we've seen it all before in other countries The thin end of the wedge. Before we know where we are we shall have the full apparatus of totalitarianism. This young boy is a living witness to these diabolical proposals. The people, the common people, must know... must see! There are rare traditions of liberty to defend. The tradition of liberty means all. The common people will let it go! Oh, yes, they will sell liberty for a quieter life. That is why they must be led, sir, driven... pushed!!! Thank you very much, sir. He'll be here."

[dreamdead]

How long is this bad boy open? Because there are four Kubricks on Netflix Insta-Watch.


As with the Hitchcock consensus, it'll remain an open consensus thread, so that any new ratings will be updated soon after, even if the consensus has already been tallied. That said, I'll likely do the initial tally sometime late next week.

[B-side]

Killer's Kiss - 5
The Killing - 7.5
Paths of Glory - 8
Lolita - 8
Dr. Strangelove - 8.5
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 9
Barry Lyndon - 10
The Shining - 8
Full Metal Jacket - 7.5
Eyes Wide Shut - 9

[Pop Trash]

I'm not fond of these low Lolita grades. The film isn't perfect but it's quite excellent and frequently hilarious. It's a much funnier film than most of the contemporary comedies released these days. I would hope people would not give a higher rating to I Love You Man or Superbad over this one.

I Love You, Man -7
Superbad -7
Lolita -6

BOOM!!! :lol:

[Stay Puft]

Spartacus - 7.5
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 8
The Shining - 6.5
Full Metal Jacket - 9
Eyes Wide Shut - 10

[Grouchy]

Killer's Kiss - 7
The Killing - 8
Paths of Glory - 9
Spartacus - 6
Lolita - 8
Dr. Strangelove - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 10
Barry Lyndon - 10
The Shining - 10
Full Metal Jacket - 10
Eyes Wide Shut - 11

[transmogrifier]

The Killing (1956) 6.0
Paths of Glory (1957) 9.5
Spartacus (1960) 5.5
Lolita (1962) 5.5
Dr. Strangelove (1964) 8.5
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) 6.0
A Clockwork Orange (1971) 5.5
The Shining (1980) 4.5
Full Metal Jacket (1987) 3.5
Eyes Wide Shut (1999) 6.0

[Rowland]

The Killing - 8.0
Paths of Glory - 9.5
Dr. Strangelove - 9.0
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 8.0
The Shining - 9.0
Full Metal Jacket - 9.5
Eyes Wide Shut - 9.0

I thought I'd seen more. In any case, I'll be watching Paths of Glory over the weekend.

EDIT: Paths of Glory added.

[Spun Lepton]

Dr. Strangelove (1964) - 8/10
2001: A Space Oddyssey (1968) - 9/10
A Clockwork Orange (1971) - 9/10
The Shining (1980) - 8/10
Full Metal Jacket (1987) - 8/10

[origami_mustache]

The Killing - 8
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 9
A Clockwork Orange - 9.5
Barry Lyndon - 8.5
The Shining - 8.5
Full Metal Jacket - 8.5
Eyes Wide Shut - 8

[MadMan]

I thought I'd seen more. In any case, I'll be watching Paths of Glory over the weekend.Huh, funny enough I grabbed a copy of it on Thursday. Perhaps I'll watch it in time. Anyways:

The Killing(1956)-8.0
Paths of Glory(1957)-9.5
Lolita(1962)-9.0
Dr. Strangelove: Or How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Bomb(1964)-10.0
2001: A Space Odyssey(1968)-10.0
The Shining(1980)-9.0=Needs a rewatch (I believe an 87 should be rounded up to a 9.0 on the 10.0 scale. Maybe.)
Full Metal Jacket(1987)-10.0

Sure some may say he's overrated. So far, I think he's one of the best directors of all time.

[ContinentalOp]

The Killing - 8
Paths of Glory - 10
Spartacus - 8
Lolita - 7
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 9
2001: A Space Odyssey - 9
A Clockwork Orange - 8.5
Barry Lyndon - 7.5
The Shining - 7.5
Full Metal Jacket - 8

[Weeping_Guitar]

The Killing - 7
Paths of Glory - 10
Lolita - 6.5
Dr. Strangelove - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 9.5
A Clockwork Orange - 8.5
Barry Lyndon - 6
The Shining - 7
Full Metal Jacket - 8
Eyes Wide Shut - 8

[baby doll]

Sure some may say he's overrated. So far, I think he's one of the best directors of all time.Sometimes I feel like he's both.

[EyesWideOpen]

My favorite director, yay.

The Killing - 8
Paths of Glory - 9.5
Spartacus - 8
Lolita - 8
Dr. Strangelove - 7
2001 - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 10
Barry Lyndon - 5
The Shining - 9
Full Metal Jacket - 8
Eyes Wide Shut - 10

[Sven]

It's the low scores for Spartacus that are killing me.

As with the Frankenheimer thread, I will only be contributing scores to the films that I feel need the help:

Spartacus - 8.5
Lolita - 8
Barry Lyndon - 10

[MadMan]

Sometimes I feel like he's both.You know, strangely enough I can buy that.

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

Fear and Desire - 2
Killer's Kiss - 4.5
The Killing - 8
Paths of Glory - 9.5
Spartacus - 7
Lolita - 8
Dr. Strangelove - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 7.5
Barry Lyndon - 10
The Shining - 9
Full Metal Jacket - 7
Eyes Wide Shut -7

[baby doll]

It's the low scores for Spartacus that are killing me.What's killing me are the low scores for Eyes Wide Shut. Anyone want to explain that to me?

[Russ]

What's killing me are the low scores for Eyes Wide Shut. Anyone want to explain that to me?

Well, we can agree on something. I was getting ready to applaud the couple of 10 scores thus far (and 9-9.5's).

Seems like lots of folks (like myself) have greatly upgraded their opinions of this film with very recent viewings. I love the meta-ness of Kubrick's utilization of Cruise and Kidman's at-the-time fragile relationship in his exploration of fragile relationships, among other things. A brilliant film, and perhaps his finest.

[baby doll]

I love the meta-ness of Kubrick's utilization of Cruise and Kidman's at-the-time fragile relationship in his exploration of fragile relationships, among other things.I think it's a bit of a stretch to treat the movie as if it were a documentary about their actual relationship.

[Spinal]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to treat the movie as if it were a documentary about their actual relationship.

Not really. If you read Frederic Raphael's book, Eyes Wide Open, you'll learn that Kubrick wanted a big-time Hollywood couple for reasons similar to those Russ referenced.

[Milky Joe]

Paths of Glory - 9.5
Dr. Strangelove - 9
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 8.5
Barry Lyndon - 10
The Shining - 7
Full Metal Jacket - 7.5
Eyes Wide Shut - 10

[Qrazy]

It's the low scores for Spartacus that are killing me.

As with the Frankenheimer thread, I will only be contributing scores to the films that I feel need the help:

Spartacus - 8.5
Lolita - 8
Barry Lyndon - 10

Agreed, so it's not his best film. It's still one of the best sword and sandal epics imo.

[Sven]

Agreed, so it's not his best film. It's still one of the best sword and sandal epics imo.

Yes.

[Rowland]

Watched Paths of Glory tonight. Fantastic stuff.

I've had a great track record lately, best run I've had in a long while. Here's to catching up with great movies and revisiting old favorites that hold up.

[trotchky]

Lolita - 7
Dr. Strangelove - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 10
Barry Lyndon - 10
The Shining - 10
Full Metal Jacket - 10
Eyes Wide Shut - 10

[Gizmo]

Killer's Kiss - 6
The Killing - 7
Paths of Glory - 9
Spartacus - 9
Lolita - 8.5
Dr. Strangelove - 7
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 9.5
Barry Lyndon - 9.5
The Shining - 9.5
Full Metal Jacket - 9
Eyes Wide Shut - 8.5


Curse you Fear and Desire!

[B-side]

The low Barry Lyndon and Eyes Wide Shut scores are giving me a rash.

[MadMan]

Watched Paths of Glory tonight. Fantastic stuff.Yes, yes it is. Kirk Douglas is magnificent in the role of Col. Dax.

[transmogrifier]

The low Barry Lyndon and Eyes Wide Shut scores are giving me a rash.

And I for one am amazed that the scores for the latter are so high.

No matter how long I live, I'll never understand why it is Kubrick who was chosen as the epitome of the quality auteur. Is it because he was smart and eccentric? :)

[trotchky]

more likely it's because he was a quality auteur.

[BuffaloWilder]

And I for one am amazed that the scores for the latter are so high.

No matter how long I live, I'll never understand why it is Kubrick who was chosen as the epitome of the quality auteur. Is it because he was smart and eccentric? :)

You'll have to explain. I, for one, am interested in your extended opinion of the man's work.

[transmogrifier]

more likely it's because he was a quality auteur.

7 straight 10/10 films? Not a chance.

He made two great films and a hell of a lot of muddled, middling ones. Not the worst director, not the best, possibly upper-middle somewhere.

[transmogrifier]

You'll have to explain. I, for one, am interested in your extended opinion of the man's work.

I have no extended opinion. Please see the post above.

[BuffaloWilder]

I have no extended opinion. Please see the post above.

Oh.


Well, that opinion sucks.

[B-side]

And I for one am amazed that the scores for the latter are so high.

No matter how long I live, I'll never understand why it is Kubrick who was chosen as the epitome of the quality auteur. Is it because he was smart and eccentric? :)

Eyes Wide Shut is better than your favorite movie.

Maybe.

[transmogrifier]

Oh.


Well, that opinion sucks.

Well, I could sugarcoat it for you, if it helps to go down better. :)

Seriously, I'm kind of sick of talking about the guy. To me, most of his films are a study in dispassionate obviousness (he was smart, but I never learnt a thing from his films - he has nothing much personal to say, it is all mid-range missives on obvious human character quirks) mixed with the odd errors in judgement regarding the shape or tone of the film (e.g. Nicholson being a loon right from the start of The Shining).

[It also amuses me that trotchky has a go at Zach Snyder for not doing original material when all Kubrick did was adaptations, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to my criticism of Kubrick, as I don't think a director needs to be working with original stories to be labelled great. Just an interesting insight into how we hold double standards in how we criticise those responsible for those movies we don't like. I'm sure I do it too]

EDIT: It appears trotchky never criticised Snyder for that, and Buffalowilder only did tangentially, so disregard the above. I'll leave it there though, because I'm sure someone has before, and I'm sure that same someone is also a poor deluded Kubrick fan, so my point still stands. Kind of.

[transmogrifier]

Eyes Wide Shut is better than your favorite movie.

Maybe.

I'm pretty sure you would think that.

You would be wrong.

I like Eyes Wide Shut on a scene-by-scene basis, but I think it is a crock as an entire film. The "sex" journey Cruise goes on is so boring and ham-fisted in had to be purposeful, which means that there is absolutely nothing to be gained from the end of the film. Does he break down because the one orgy he finally managed to wrangle his way in on was full of dull robots? I think the orgy scene by itself is quite creepy, by the way.

EDIT: I'll stop here, because this is a ratings thread and I could go on and on.

[B-side]

I'm pretty sure you would think that.

You would be wrong.

I like Eyes Wide Shut on a scene-by-scene basis, but I think it is a crock as an entire film. The "sex" journey Cruise goes on is so boring and ham-fisted in had to be purposeful, which means that there is absolutely nothing to be gained from the end of the film. Does he break down because the one orgy he finally managed to wrangle his way in on was full of dull robots? I think the orgy scene by itself is quite creepy, by the way.

EDIT: I'll stop here, because this is a ratings thread and I could go on and on.

It's OK, we all fail at something. You just happen to fail at Eyes Wide Shut. We don't hate you any more than usual for it.;)

[BuffaloWilder]

[It also amuses me that trotchky has a go at Zach Snyder for not doing original material when all Kubrick did was adaptations, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to my criticism of Kubrick, as I don't think a director needs to be working with original stories to be labelled great. Just an interesting insight into how we hold double standards in how we criticise those responsible for those movies we don't like. I'm sure I do it too]

It's not that all he's done is adaptations, it's that two of these adaptations have been from a previously visual medium, and instead of actually, you know, adapting these stories, all he's done is lift those visuals panel-for-panel, tossed in a lot of...oddly done kung-fu fighting, and truncated what made the original stories (well, really only Watchmen, because 300 was pretty terrible as a comic, too) what they were.

And, his Dawn of the Dead remake was enjoyable, but that's about it.

[transmogrifier]

It's not that all he's done is adaptations, it's that two of these adaptations have been from a previously visual medium, and instead of actually, you know, adapting these stories, all he's done is lift those visuals panel-for-panel, tossed in a lot of...oddly done kung-fu fighting, and truncated what made the original stories (well, really only Watchmen, because 300 was pretty terrible as a comic, too) what they were.

And, his Dawn of the Dead remake was enjoyable, but that's about it.

Fair enough, and I'll be fair and say I probably rank Kubrick higher than Snyder in the great scheme of things.

[Qrazy]

7 straight 10/10 films? Not a chance.

He made two great films and a hell of a lot of muddled, middling ones. Not the worst director, not the best, possibly upper-middle somewhere.

Who's the best?

[Qrazy]

Well, I could sugarcoat it for you, if it helps to go down better. :)

Seriously, I'm kind of sick of talking about the guy. To me, most of his films are a study in dispassionate obviousness (he was smart, but I never learnt a thing from his films - he has nothing much personal to say, it is all mid-range missives on obvious human character quirks) mixed with the odd errors in judgement regarding the shape or tone of the film (e.g. Nicholson being a loon right from the start of The Shining).

[It also amuses me that trotchky has a go at Zach Snyder for not doing original material when all Kubrick did was adaptations, but that is neither here nor there when it comes to my criticism of Kubrick, as I don't think a director needs to be working with original stories to be labelled great. Just an interesting insight into how we hold double standards in how we criticise those responsible for those movies we don't like. I'm sure I do it too]

EDIT: It appears trotchky never criticised Snyder for that, and Buffalowilder only did tangentially, so disregard the above. I'll leave it there though, because I'm sure someone has before, and I'm sure that same someone is also a poor deluded Kubrick fan, so my point still stands. Kind of.

What an awful, awful amendment.

[trotchky]

i don't like bergman or godard, but i'm not about to call them middling or compare them to zach snyder. sorry you don't get kubrick, homie. (sike, i'm not sorry at all, and couldn't care less if you like the dude or hate him :))

[transmogrifier]

Who's the best?

Dunno. Altman probably. But I don't have a set list.

[trotchky]

I'm pretty sure you would think that.

You would be wrong.

I like Eyes Wide Shut on a scene-by-scene basis, but I think it is a crock as an entire film. The "sex" journey Cruise goes on is so boring and ham-fisted in had to be purposeful, which means that there is absolutely nothing to be gained from the end of the film. Does he break down because the one orgy he finally managed to wrangle his way in on was full of dull robots? I think the orgy scene by itself is quite creepy, by the way.

EDIT: I'll stop here, because this is a ratings thread and I could go on and on.

he breaks down crying because he finally understands the horrible reality of the status quo. your version is close, though!

[transmogrifier]

he breaks down crying because he finally understands the horrible reality of the status quo. your version is close, though!

Deep. Sam Mendes deep.

[transmogrifier]

i don't like bergman or godard, but i'm not about to call them middling or compare them to zach snyder. sorry you don't get kubrick, homie. (sike, i'm not sorry at all, and couldn't care less if you like the dude or hate him :))

To be fair, I said upper middle. Plus, Godard >> Kubrick

(I am still yet to see a Bergman film, so can't comment on him)

[trotchky]

Deep. Sam Mendes deep.

hey, it's not what it's about, it's how it's about it. it's also about the abject inhumanity belied by every shiny veneer of wealth and capitalist success, something mendes has never touched on (spacey buys a sports car, and this is a symbol of his newfound freedom? i like american beauty, but its reach is nothing compared to eyes wide shut's).

[Milky Joe]

Deep. Sam Mendes deep.

I don't think you quite understand what horrible means in this context.

[transmogrifier]

hey, it's not what it's about, it's how it's about it. it's also about the abject inhumanity belied by every shiny veneer of wealth and capitalist success, something mendes has never touched on (spacey buys a sports car, and this is a symbol of his newfound freedom? i like american beauty, but its reach is nothing compared to eyes wide shut's).

Why is it, Kubrick has all these wonderful layers of untouchable insight into the human condition, but the films that are the vessels for these profound teachings are so lumpy and dull (generally)?

Don't tell me, the lumpy dullness is all part of his masterplan.

Okay, I promise, that's the last thing I'll write on Kubrick in this thread. I'm happy to be in the minority on this one, because I don't think I'm missing a thing here.

[trotchky]

Why is it, Kubrick has all these wonderful layers of untouchable insight into the human condition, but the films that are the vessels for these profound teachings are so lumpy and dull (generally)?

Don't tell me, the lumpy dullness is all part of his masterplan.

Okay, I promise, that's the last thing I'll write on Kubrick in this thread. I'm happy to be in the minority on this one, because I don't think I'm missing a thing here.

lumpy and dull? i think we'll just have to agree not to agree on that one. i mean, whoa man. a clockwork orange might be the most visceral movie i've ever seen (and no, not because it's "violent").

[Sxottlan]

Dr. Strangelove: 9
2001: A Space Odyssey: 10
A Clockwork Orange: 8
The Shining: 10
Full Metal Jacket: 7
Eyes Wide Shut: 6.5

I still need to see all of his early stuff and Barry Lyndon.

[Melville]

Eyes Wide Shut has a nice mythic structure of a journey into the Otherworld, which makes Cruise's revelations about what underlies the shiny veneer of modern nobility much more interesting to watch. But what makes me love the movie is its atmosphere. Its use of lights in creating that atmosphere is especially spectacular, from the glittering walls of lights at the first party to the vivid colors of the Christmas lights at the tailor's shop to the soft, pure white glow of the lights at the orgy. Seriously, how can you not love this:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/cinquevolte/film%20stills/EyesWideShut22-57-48.jpg
http://www.eeggs.com/images/items/924.full.jpg
(Disclaimer: I pulled those off a google search, so I can't guarantee that they actually come from the movie. But you get the idea.)

Here's a pretty good discussion of the use of recurring visual motifs in the film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj7Hw6OnbH8
But the main thing to look at in the video is the lights.

[BuffaloWilder]

Here's a pretty good discussion of the use of recurring visual motifs in the film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj7Hw6OnbH8
But the main thing to look at in the video is the lights.

I love that half of Rob Ager's stuff is completely sane visual and thematic analyses, and the other half is just stuff like "some conspiracy theories claim the moon landings were faked and that Kubrick was hired to film the fake footage for the US government. If this was the case then Kubrick may well have come face to face with political corruption that became weaved into his films from that very point. In The Shining, little Danny sports an "apollo" rocket on his sweater, possibly suggesting that the moon landings are a child's fairy tale ... and the drunk tramp in clockwork also talks of men on the moon and things spinning around the Earth, before taking a severe beating from the droogs."

[thefourthwall]

Spartacus - 8
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 9.5
A Clockwork Orange - 9
The Shining - 9.5
Eyes Wide Shut - 8

[Qrazy]

To be fair, I said upper middle. Plus, Godard >> Kubrick


No.

[Qrazy]

Why is it, Kubrick has all these wonderful layers of untouchable insight into the human condition, but the films that are the vessels for these profound teachings are so lumpy and dull (generally)?


To you, because presumably you prefer to watch Godard's surface evaluations of the Bourgeoisie.

[Melville]

I love that half of Rob Ager's stuff is completely sane visual and thematic analyses, and the other half is just stuff like "some conspiracy theories claim the moon landings were faked and that Kubrick was hired to film the fake footage for the US government. If this was the case then Kubrick may well have come face to face with political corruption that became weaved into his films from that very point. In The Shining, little Danny sports an "apollo" rocket on his sweater, possibly suggesting that the moon landings are a child's fairy tale ... and the drunk tramp in clockwork also talks of men on the moon and things spinning around the Earth, before taking a severe beating from the droogs."
Hah. That's an awesome coincidence; I didn't even realize it was the same guy.

[Qrazy]

Hah. That's an awesome coincidence; I didn't even realize it was the same guy.

Who was the same guy?

[BuffaloWilder]

Who was the same guy?

Did you miss the ten-page long discussion in the ISOYFD thread about this guy's assumption that Jack represented the white man in The Shining, and Wendy was the embodiment of Native Americans?

[Qrazy]

Did you miss the ten-page long discussion in the ISOYFD thread about this guy's assumption that Jack represented the white man in The Shining, and Wendy was the embodiment of Native Americans?

No, I was looking for clarification. Rob Ager is the same guy who spoke about the Natives and the Moon Landing (I'm not asking this, I'm asking if this was what was being said)?

If that's the case than what's the coincidence... The Shining and A Clockwork Orange bits?

[BuffaloWilder]

No, I was looking for clarification. Rob Ager is the same guy who spoke about the Natives and the Moon Landing (I'm not asking this, I'm asking if this was what was being said)?

If that's the case than what's the coincidence... The Shining and A Clockwork Orange bits?

Coincidence? No, I was saying how weird it is that half of his stuff is so - well, sane, and the other half just - isn't.

[Melville]

No, I was looking for clarification. Rob Ager is the same guy who spoke about the Natives and the Moon Landing (I'm not asking this, I'm asking if this was what was being said)?

If that's the case than what's the coincidence... The Shining and A Clockwork Orange bits?
The coincidence is that after a long irritating argument about Kubrick that started because of Rob Ager, in the very next argument about Kubrick I happened to unwittingly link to a video made by that very same guy. If Ager spends all his time talking about Kubrick, then it's not much of a coincidence that he should come up in both arguments, but I nevertheless found it amusing.

[BuffaloWilder]

The coincidence is that after a long irritating argument about Kubrick that started because of Rob Ager, in the very next argument about Kubrick I happened to unwittingly link to a video made by that very same guy. If Ager spends all his time talking about Kubrick, then it's not much of a coincidence that he should come up in both arguments, but I nevertheless found it amusing.

You didn't recognize the Limey accent?

[Melville]

You didn't recognize the Limey accent?
I have no idea who Rob Ager is.

[Qrazy]

The coincidence is that after a long irritating argument about Kubrick that started because of Rob Ager, in the very next argument about Kubrick I happened to unwittingly link to a video made by that very same guy. If Ager spends all his time talking about Kubrick, then it's not much of a coincidence that he should come up in both arguments, but I nevertheless found it amusing.

Ah ok I didn't see your link.

[Qrazy]

Coincidence? No, I was saying how weird it is that half of his stuff is so - well, sane, and the other half just - isn't.

Right...

[MadMan]

The next time I watch The Shining, I'm going to let you all know if I actually note anything related to Native Americans in it :P

[baby doll]

The next time I watch The Shining, I'm going to let you all know if I actually note anything related to Native Americans in it :PAnd don't forget to scan Full Metal Jacket for evidence that Kubrick was behind the Kennedy assassination.

[MadMan]

And don't forget to scan Full Metal Jacket for evidence that Kubrick was behind the Kennedy assassination.:lol: What? :confused: That's just crazy, man. Who the hell thought up that one? Ah man, that's just great.

[baby doll]

:lol: What? :confused: That's just crazy, man. Who the hell thought up that one? Ah man, that's just great.I was referring to what's-his-name's theory that the sweater worn by the boy in The Shining is a veiled confession that Kubrick staged the moon landing. Wait a minute... Doesn't Jack refer to the kid as "Danny boy" at one point? Maybe we should be reading the film as an allegory for the IRA.

[Izzy Black]

soori has a Woody Allen AV ha ha ha ha ha....

[Dukefrukem]

2001: A Space Odyssey - 9.9
Barry Lyndon - 7
The Shining - 8.9
Full Metal Jacket - 9.5
Eyes Wide Shut - 6.5

we need to redo these scores now!!

[ledfloyd]

Paths of Glory - 7
Lolita - 8
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 7
The Shining - 10
Full Metal Jacket - 5
Eyes Wide Shut - 10

[Dukefrukem]

Someone needs to please explain to me the appeal of Eyes Wide Shut....

[Mara]

Someone needs to please explain to me the appeal of Eyes Wide Shut....

I haven't seen it since it was in theaters. I thought the scene between Kidman and Cruise near the beginning when she confesses her adulterous thoughts was great.

The rest of the film made me go like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Melville]

Someone needs to please explain to me the appeal of Eyes Wide Shut....
I explained its appeal to me on the previous page.

[Dukefrukem]

I haven't seen it since it was in theaters. I thought the scene between Kidman and Cruise near the beginning when she confesses her adulterous thoughts was great.

The rest of the film made me go like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/icon_rolleyes.gif

Photobucket is blocked by my work, I'm guessing you're posting something along the lines of;

http://trimex.us/img/$rand/algore%20rolleyes.gif

or

http://xs102.xs.to/xs102/06254/rolleyesbarf.gif

[Dukefrukem]

I explained its appeal to me on the previous page.

I'm watching it now.

[Dukefrukem]

First time I've ever heard of "fractal logic" being used in films. But okay. A complicated and specific explanation...

[Melville]

First time I've ever heard of "fractal logic" being used in films. But okay. A complicated and specific explanation...
The appeal of the movie, to me, isn't the use of visual motifs and symbols that are pointed out in that video; as I said in my post, I like the movie for its atmosphere, particularly its use of lights. I posted the video primarily because it shows off the film's visuals. The atmosphere created by the visuals combines very well with the dream-logic discussed in the video, and both of them work very well with the film's themes and plot structure, but the lights are really the main appeal for me.

But regarding the video, I don't think its analysis was very complicated, and its specificity is a good thing.

[Ezee E]

It's tough for me to explain why I like the movie so much. Its technical approach is masterful, but there's something creepy in each scene that gets to me. The entire night as a temptation for Cruise, with its devilish approach is pretty frightening. I like it more and more each time I watch.

[Grouchy]

It's tough for me to explain why I like the movie so much. Its technical approach is masterful, but there's something creepy in each scene that gets to me. The entire night as a temptation for Cruise, with its devilish approach is pretty frightening. I like it more and more each time I watch.
Yes, every scene has many layers of hidden comedy and creepiness. It's the rare film that, the more times you watch it, the more complicated it becomes. Most films, you've exhausted everything the director intended to show you by the second time you've seen them.

Of course, more than because of its complexity, I love the film because it's an exciting, scary and intelligent thriller. One of the best ever made.

[Gizmo]

Someone needs to please explain to me the appeal of Eyes Wide Shut....

it has boobs?

[Dukefrukem]

it has boobs?

So does From Dusk Till Dawn.

[Milky Joe]

It has Nicole Kidman's boobs.

[transmogrifier]

It has Nicole Kidman's boobs.

So does Dead Calm, a better film.

[Ezee E]

So does Dead Calm, a better film.
As does almost any R-Rated Nicole Kidman movie.

To Die For = Nicole Kidman at her best looking

[dreamdead]

Results:
2001: A Space Odyssey – 9.6316 (38)
Dr. Strangelove – 9 (37)
Paths of Glory – 8.8958 (24)
Barry Lyndon – 8.6875 (24)
A Clockwork Orange – 8.4583 (36)
The Shining – 8.3472 (36)
Eyes Wide Shut – 8.0294 (34)
The Killing – 7.9565 (23)
Full Metal Jacket – 7.9265 (34)
Spartacus – 7.2917 (24)
Lolita – 7.1087 (23)
Killer’s Kiss – 5.5909 (11)
Overall = 8.077

Did not qualify:
Fear and Desire – 4.25 (2)

Complete Kubrick filmographies: Kurious Jorge, StanleyK
Biggest Hater: transmogrifier
“2”s handed out to Fear and Desire (Kurious Jorge) and Eyes Wide Shut (Mara)

[Qrazy]

I guess it's finally time to see Fear and Desire.

[Milky Joe]

To Die For = Nicole Kidman at her best looking

I don't think she (or possibly any woman) has ever looked as good as she does in the opening party scene in EWS. I'll always love Kubrick for that scene, if nothing else.

[Ezee E]

I don't think she (or possibly any woman) has ever looked as good as she does in the opening party scene in EWS. I'll always love Kubrick for that scene, if nothing else.
Hmm... You got a point there. Her in that whole movie looks pretty great actually. Close matchup.

[StanleyK]

Fear and Desire - 6.5
Killer's Kiss - 8
The Killing - 9.5
Paths of Glory - 10
Spartacus - 8.5
Lolita - 8.5
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 9.5
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 10
Barry Lyndon - 10
The Shining - 10
Full Metal Jacket - 9.5
Eyes Wide Shut - 9.5

Eh... the guy's okay.



Killer's Kiss - 5.5
The Killing - 8.5
Paths of Glory - 10
Spartacus - 8.5
Lolita - 7
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 8.5
Barry Lyndon - 8.5
The Shining - 10
Full Metal Jacket - 10
Eyes Wide Shut - 10



Yeah, still think he's pretty decent.

[baby doll]

Killer's Kiss (1955) [5]
The Killing (1957) [8]
Paths of Glory (1957) [7]
Lolita (1962) [5]
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964) [8]
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) [10]
A Clockwork Orange (1971) [5]
Barry Lyndon (1975) [9]
The Shining (1980) [9]
Full Metal Jacket (1987) [8]
Eyes Wide Shut (1999) [9]Ten years later:

Killer's Kiss (1955) mild
The Killing (1956) spicy
Paths of Glory (1957) warm
Spartacus (1960) cold
Lolita (1962) mild
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964) warm
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) spicy
A Clockwork Orange (1971) mild
Barry Lyndon (1975) spicy
The Shining (1980) spicy
Full Metal Jacket (1987) spicy
Eyes Wide Shut (1999) spicy

A.I. Artificial Intelligence (2001) spicy

[Dukefrukem]

2001: A Space Odyssey - 9.9
Barry Lyndon - 7
The Shining - 8.9
Full Metal Jacket - 9.5
Eyes Wide Shut - 6.5

we need to redo these scores now!!

Whoa, in 2009 I sucked.

2001: A Space Odyssey – 8
Dr. Strangelove – 10
Barry Lyndon – 7
A Clockwork Orange – 9
The Shining – 9
Eyes Wide Shut – 5
The Killing – 10
Full Metal Jacket – 10

[Ezee E]

The Killing - 10
Paths of Glory - 8
Spartacus - 6.5
Lolita - 7
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 10
Barry Lyndon - 8.5
The Shining - 10
Full Metal Jacket - 10
Eyes Wide Shut - 10

THEN and now:

The Killing - 8
Paths of Glory - 7
Spartacus - 6
Lolita - 6
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 10
2001: A Space Odyssey - 10
A Clockwork Orange - 10
Barry Lyndon - 8
The Shining - 10
Full Metal Jacket - 8
Eyes Wide Shut - 10