Mad Men

[Amnesiac]

...

[Qrazy]

So should I air my dislike and general criticisms here or in the TV discussion thread?

[trotchky]

on disc four of season one. great, great show. when i watch tv shows on dvd i usually take breaks between seasons, let alone discs, but i've been going non-stop with this one and have season two queued up.

[Qrazy]

Well, that's a fun way to start this thread off.

Did you finish both seasons?

I was just teasing. No, I only finished the first.

[[ETM]]

So should I air my dislike and general criticisms here or in the TV discussion thread?

I'm interested in this. I've been dissatisfied myself, I'm betting we've got a similar perspective. I've seen through the first episode of S2, btw.

[Kurosawa Fan]

So should I air my dislike and general criticisms here or in the TV discussion thread?

I didn't care for it either. I watched three episodes and was so put off by their constant showcasing of how different the fifties were ("Look! The kids don't wear seatbelts! Crazy!" or "People weren't sure if smoking was really bad for you! WILD!!!" or "Men treated women like a piece of meat, without consequences! OH, those FIFTIES!!") that I couldn't watch any more. To be honest though, I didn't really find the office politics or any of the plot terribly interesting.

Three episodes probably isn't a fair chance for a show, but at the time it was all I was willing to give. You know, other things I could be doing and all that.

[Mara]

Sixties, mon ange. Sixties.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Sixties, mon ange. Sixties.

Crap. There goes any value that post had.

[Mara]

Crap. There goes any value that post had.

:lol:

What you were describing really annoyed me at first, actually, but I think it became less flagrant as the series progressed.

[[ETM]]

:lol:

What you were describing really annoyed me at first, actually, but I think it became less flagrant as the series progressed.

It did. They also refocused on less obvious things like kids running around with plastic bags on their heads in the background etc.

[Kurosawa Fan]

;189674']It did. They also refocused on less obvious things like kids running around with plastic bags on their heads in the background etc.

Wait... this really happens on the show?

[[ETM]]

Wait... this really happens on the show?

It's not as obvious, it was actually one of the kids, while the mothers were talking, and they yell at them for running but pay no attention to the plastic bag.

[Kurosawa Fan]

;189678']It's not as obvious, it was actually one of the kids, while the mothers were talking, and they yell at them for running but pay no attention to the plastic bag.

Ugh. I don't care how subtle it is, that's what turned me off in the first place, and if it's still going on deep into the first season, I really don't want to revisit the show.

[Mara]

I just about had a heart attack during the "garment bag on the head" incident. Plus, during that scene, a pregnant woman is smoking and drinking wine.

OH, SHOCK!

[Kurosawa Fan]

I just about had a heart attack during the "garment bag on the head" incident. Plus, during that scene, a pregnant woman is smoking and drinking wine.

OH, SHOCK!

Yeah, I'm not coming back to this. I just can't.

[[ETM]]

I honestly all but stopped noticing these things pretty quickly. It's a good comment, though, on how much certain things have been etched into our collective consciousness only in the recent years. It was not like that in these parts, so perhaps that's why it doesn't bother me as much, or at all.

[Mara]

I know that everyone's gaga for Draper (who is excessively handsome) but I find his character inscrutable to the point of annoyance.

I watch for Peggy and Joan. My ladies.

[EvilShoe]

Bah, I like how the writers are having some fun with the 60s setting.

Took me a while to get into the show, but by season 2 I was a fan. Draper's interesting as hell.

[Mara]

It was nice to see Hamm on 30 Rock play a nicer, more readable character so that we know his acting style isn't just blank.

It was also nice to see him let his hair down (literally), since we all know that slicked-back haired men are evil. (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nations_slicked_back_hair_men)

[Kurosawa Fan]

I thought Hamm did a pretty good job on SNL too. Showed he had some comic ability.

[Qrazy]

I didn't care for it either. I watched three episodes and was so put off by their constant showcasing of how different the fifties were ("Look! The kids don't wear seatbelts! Crazy!" or "People weren't sure if smoking was really bad for you! WILD!!!" or "Men treated women like a piece of meat, without consequences! OH, those FIFTIES!!") that I couldn't watch any more. To be honest though, I didn't really find the office politics or any of the plot terribly interesting.

Three episodes probably isn't a fair chance for a show, but at the time it was all I was willing to give. You know, other things I could be doing and all that.

Exactly!!! It's not so much that the show is about these things, it's the way in which it's about it. Perhaps if it had gone Altman/Welles-esque with more dynamic staging and overlapping dialogue it could have worked but the way it stands everything in the show stops for these 'point' making moments... *kid walks in with plastic bag overhead* "Honey! *pause* "You better not have spoiled the dry cleaning." ... Ohhhh those 60's! The authors bludgeon home their themes. So yeah, that's my biggest criticism as well. I realize the author's wanted to show how often women have to deal with this stuff but the way they go about it is like hitting nails directly on the head on the top of the metaphoric thematic casket.

I also just find the point making disingenuous at times. Yes some people hit their kids and yes there was misogyny but it wasn't this rampant (the show handles characters who aren't only in the ad agency and turns all men into snide, superficial ghouls). My grandfather wasn't a misogynistic asshole nor were most old people I've met. Given how deep seated racism is (I've seen it before in people) I'm guessing if they were truly sexist there would still be some sign of this even at a late age.

But also I found the filmmaking to be mediocre, primarily the character movement and general staging is rather bland. The entire production is swept in that easy retro golden light which allows it to avoid compelling compositions. The acting is not that special. If I have to see Hamm furrow his brows one more time. Ugh.

And as you mention the storyline just isn't that interesting. I don't care about the melodramatic excesses of Hamm's past life. I don't care about these despicable characters and I don't feel that I'm given good reason to care... I think it was Derek who said he felt their despicable natures was contrasted well with sympathetic elements. While there is a contrast I don't feel there's enough of one or that the show has enough to say about the non-sympathetic side of these characters to justify them.

And despite the show's focus on exposing misogyny sometimes I actually feel it possesses a little sexism itself. I don't hold this against the show itself but I read some poster comments on another forum where individuals were debating 'hot or not' about the various office girls. In relation to the show though there is at times a lingering on T&A and crass remarks which goes far beyond needing to expose the misogyny.

Sometimes there are also just bizarre situations such as at the end of Season One (SPOILERS) when in one scene a girl finds out she's pregnant and in the next scene she suddenly has a baby... Was she that far pregnant? I mean really? I know these things have happened in the past (pregnancy denial) but I still find it crazy. Then Draper comes home and gives his wife good news... but then he comes home and no one is there... so the previous moment was a dream sequence then but this is poorly communicated, completely unnecessary and not really in keeping with the show's usual non-dream execution.

[Qrazy]

Ugh. I don't care how subtle it is, that's what turned me off in the first place, and if it's still going on deep into the first season, I really don't want to revisit the show.

Contrary to what people will have you believe that moment was not subtle at all nor do similar moments become any more subtle nor are there less of them later in the season.

[Derek]

Contrary to what people will have you believe that moment was not subtle at all nor do similar moments become any more subtle nor are there less of them later in the season.

Nor do are they found even close to as often as you or KF make it out to be. People smoked a lot and there was no seat belt law until 1965...where are there moments that THROW THAT IN YOUR FACE. OH MY GAWD THEY DRANK WHISKEY IN THE OFFICE WTFOMGROFL QRAZINESS! Well yeah, so the show has them drinking whiskey in the office.

Couldn't you do the same with Deadwood - OMG THERE'S NO INDOOR PLUMBING PEPUL DIE FROM SIMPUL DISEASES AND CUSS A LOT! THE WILD WEST RLY WUZ WILD!!

Seems like a silly way to approach a period show, not to mention blowing it way out of proportion.

[Qrazy]

Nor do are they found even close to as often as you or KF make it out to be. People smoked a lot and there was no seat belt law until 1965...where are there moments that THROW THAT IN YOUR FACE.

When she's driving and has a fit the kids aren't wearing seatbelts. I'm not really bothered by the smoking. I could list some of the moments that bothered me (when everything stops for an oh those 60's moment)... most of the instances of misogyny (so at least like 30 or so moments there), hitting the kids, the plastic bag, the stuff with the divorcee, black people discussing their status in the world, etc.


Couldn't you do the same with Deadwood - OMG THERE'S NO INDOOR PLUMBING PEPUL DIE FROM SIMPUL DISEASES AND CUSS A LOT! THE WILD WEST RLY WUZ WILD!!

Seems like a silly way to approach a period show, not to mention blowing it way out of proportion.

Nah man my problem is with the way the show approaches the material. That's why I think perhaps it would have worked if they had overlapping dialogue and more inventive staging. I like that they're tackling these things I don't like the way they're tackling them. I have my problems with Deadwood but it doesn't dwell on it's issues in a similar way. Everything doesn't stop for a moment for them to point out the status of a black man in the time period. They have plots devoted to that status but it's not addressed in the same way.

[Hugh_Grant]

Totally agree with Qrazy and KF. And Jon Hamm does nothing for me.

[[ETM]]

There's truth in the Deadwood argument...

[B-side]

I think Mad Men utilizes a certain detached aesthetic that lends itself to a better scrutiny of its events. The 2nd season dwells less on the misogyny and seems to take that aspect more in stride. I didn't even notice the lack of seatbelts. I don't think the show interrupts its flow for any hammering home of ideas and decor. One of the big aspects of the show is showing just how similar it is to now. The war, the misogyny, the racial issues, the corporatizing of America, etc. It's all contrasted so perfectly with now. Discussions of teenagers not drinking coffee contrasted with the booming income of places like Starbuck's. Discussions of pushing sexual boundaries in advertising contrasted with how virtually every commercial or ad nowadays containing some sort of sexuality. The 60s birthed so much of our current issues, and making the show now seems perfect in the face of what is going to be a huge turning point for America.

I don't agree that it's technically boring either. I've seen some interesting shots. My favorite things they've done have been the match-cuts. It's nothing revolutionary or even great, but those match-cuts were cool. I noticed the smoking a lot in the first season. Literally, every scene someone was smoking, and there wasn't a single person that didn't smoke. But back to what I was saying earlier, contrast that with the ever-increasing population of smokers nowadays. Then there's the homosexuality aspect. The show hints at Salvatore being gay and in the 2nd season they give him the light in an episode and show him uncomfortably shrugging off homophobia. It's rarely, if ever, melodramatic and the show is always played with a sort of calm, cool and detached demeanor. It can lend itself to feeling cold, but it never really feels like it's dragging its feet.

[Mara]

I think the second season took the misogyny and racheted it up to a disturbing level.

Joan:

being raped by her fiancee in the office

...while in contrast Betty

finally throws Don out on his cheating, spineless ass. She finally takes some sort of control over her destiny, but then loses the pieces when she finds out she's pregnant again. This she doesn't know how to do alone.

[Qrazy]

I don't agree that it's technically boring either. I've seen some interesting shots. My favorite things they've done have been the match-cuts. It's nothing revolutionary or even great, but those match-cuts were cool. I noticed the smoking a lot in the first season. Literally, every scene someone was smoking, and there wasn't a single person that didn't smoke. But back to what I was saying earlier, contrast that with the ever-increasing population of smokers nowadays. Then there's the homosexuality aspect. The show hints at Salvatore being gay and in the 2nd season they give him the light in an episode and show him uncomfortably shrugging off homophobia. It's rarely, if ever, melodramatic and the show is always played with a sort of calm, cool and detached demeanor. It can lend itself to feeling cold, but it never really feels like it's dragging its feet.

Ahh thanks for reminding me, that's another example of something that was bludgeoned home. In the first or second episode of season one Salvatore is given a couple of these "I'm a homosexual!" lines. I think there were about three such lines in the episode to really remind the viewer in case they didn't get it the first two times.

[Derek]

I think the second season took the misogyny and racheted it up to a disturbing level.

Joan:

being raped by her fiancee in the office

...while in contrast Betty

finally throws Don out on his cheating, spineless ass. She finally takes some sort of control over her destiny, but then loses the pieces when she finds out she's pregnant again. This she doesn't know how to do alone.

Aren't both examples there perhaps realistic examples of situations that women might have gone through at the time? Is showing a secretary being slapped in the butt by her boss and putting up with it automatically mysoginistic even if it likely happened in that type of work environment at the time? You seem to be looking for an unrealistic level of female empowerment when I think the show provides a fine balance between that a somewhat accurate representation of what they had to put up with to succeed back then.

I can, however, see Qrazy's complaint about it being sexist in its lingering on women's hips, legs and asses. It usually seems to be providing a POV of how the men view them, but I can understand how someone would find the amount of screentime dedicated to Christina Hendricks' ass problematic. Not that I do, but I can understand. :)

[Mara]

Aren't both examples there perhaps realistic examples of situations that women might have gone through at the time?

You misunderstand-- I'm not complaining. I found both of these plot points convincing and heart-breaking. I was saying I don't think that the second season is ignoring misogyny.

[Derek]

;190158']There's truth in the Deadwood argument...

No, there's not. I lied.

[Derek]

You misunderstand-- I'm not complaining. I found both of these plot points convincing and heart-breaking. I was saying I don't think that the second season is ignoring misogyny.

Oh good! I got too used to the nitpicking in this thread. :) Betty and Joan's storylines in Season 2 are beautifully conceived and yes, quite heart-breaking, although Peggy's is the best.

[Kurosawa Fan]

To me, who has seen both shows, your argument doesn't work Derek. Deadwood integrates the time period with the setting of its show flawlessly. It doesn't feel the need to point out the differences, or to call them into focus. When you wake up, you have to take a piss. Everyone does. Bill takes a piss in a pot in the corner because that's how things are done.

In the case of Mad Men, they call attention to these differences. When Draper's wife has a breakdown and almost (or not almost, I can't remember) crashes the car, the kids are not only unbuckled, they're jumping around the car from front to back seat. When a kid is running like crazy around his house, he has a plastic bag over his head, and the mom only mentions the running. These things seem to only exist to show you how different the time period is to our own, not because they are a natural part of the storytelling. The mysogyny in the workplace is natural (annoying, but natural). It makes sense.

The fact that several of us, even those who went on to enjoy the show, have noticed and been bothered by this, while I've never heard anyone complain about the way the time period is portrayed in Deadwood outside of whether those characters would really curse like they do (which is the opposite of what we're arguing; that they're changing the past rather than taking the time to point out its differences), or whether some of those words even existed in the common American vernacular, seems to suggest there's something to our perspective. That you didn't notice this, or that it didn't bother you, and you're able to continue loving the show is great. It's annoying to me.

[Derek]

It's not there's the two examples you mentioned aren't valid. It's that you and Qrazy (and perhaps others) make it sound like they occur frequently throughout every episode. The two examples you mentioned are 5 seconds each in a 42-minute episode, which while worth bringing up as a weaknesss, seems a bit too small to essentially dismiss an entire series (or not watch it).

[Kurosawa Fan]

It's not there's the two examples you mentioned aren't valid. It's that you and Qrazy (and perhaps others) make it sound like they occur frequently throughout every episode. The two examples you mentioned are 5 seconds each in a 42-minute episode, which while worth bringing up as a weaknesss, seems a bit too small to essentially dismiss an entire series (or not watch it).

That's not why I stopped watching. As I said, I wasn't interested in the office politics, nor was I much interested in any of the plotlines presented in the first three (or four, not sure) episodes. There was nothing that grabbed me, and when paired with those annoyances I gave up. I wasn't seriously considering coming back anyway, but to hear that those occurrences continue to happen even deeper into the series is all I needed to hear to keep me away.

[Qrazy]

It's not there's the two examples you mentioned aren't valid. It's that you and Qrazy (and perhaps others) make it sound like they occur frequently throughout every episode. The two examples you mentioned are 5 seconds each in a 42-minute episode, which while worth bringing up as a weaknesss, seems a bit too small to essentially dismiss an entire series (or not watch it).

I feel that there are a large number of those instance but also I sort of find the writing beyond those instances to be ham fisted such as the Salvatore bit I pointed out. But unlike KF I find many of the misogyny instances as problematic as the plastic bag, seatbelts, etc.

"Don Draper: I'm not going to let a woman talk to me like that!"

"Roger: Have we hired any Jews?
Don Draper: Not on my watch!"

"Salvatore Romano: [replying to Dr. Guttman's statement about smoking and a death wish] So we're supposed to believe that people are living one way and secretly thinking the exact opposite? That's ridiculous."

"Roger: I want the Chinamen out of the building by lunchtime."

---

All this being said I didn't utterly hate the show. I found it picked up a bit around the third or fourth episode and it involved me enough to keep me watching for a season.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I feel that there are a large number of those instance but also I sort of find the writing beyond those instances to be ham fisted such as the Salvatore bit I pointed out. But unlike KF I find many of the misogyny instances as problematic as the plastic bag, seatbelts, etc.


Whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't exclude me from this. I had a very limited exposure to the mysogyny, as well as everything else on the show. I just found that in the first couple episodes it served a purpose on the show and was more naturally ingrained in the fabric of the setting. But it was certainly off-putting and played a part in my decision to stop watching.

[[ETM]]

No, there's not. I lied.

Bastard.

[Derek]

"Don Draper: I'm not going to let a woman talk to me like that!"

"Roger: Have we hired any Jews?
Don Draper: Not on my watch!"

"Salvatore Romano: [replying to Dr. Guttman's statement about smoking and a death wish] So we're supposed to believe that people are living one way and secretly thinking the exact opposite? That's ridiculous."

"Roger: I want the Chinamen out of the building by lunchtime."


Other than these being despicable things said by character's who lived in a very different era than ours, what is wrong with these lines in the context of the show? It certainly doesn't excuse these statements or the characters racism/xenophobia/homophobia. Do you really think people didn't talk like that or does it simply offend your fragile little mind like all the cursing in Deadwood? :)

[Hugh_Grant]

Other than these being despicable things said by character's who lived in a very different era than ours, what is wrong with these lines in the context of the show?

I don't want to speak for Qrazy, but my problem is that those lines are emblematic of the show's affectations. Everything seems so artificial and heavy-handed, so I can't be arsed to care.

YMMV, of course.

[Qrazy]

Other than these being despicable things said by character's who lived in a very different era than ours, what is wrong with these lines in the context of the show? It certainly doesn't excuse these statements or the characters racism/xenophobia/homophobia. Do you really think people didn't talk like that or does it simply offend your fragile little mind like all the cursing in Deadwood? :)

I think I've already explained this fairly coherently. The lines aren't asides or casual occurrences they're like... 'No but seriously guys, I'm really a racist. In case you didn't follow.'

The cursing in Deadwood is a different but similar problem. I simply found it became redundant, but it's never belabored.

---

But you and others really love the show so I'm not here to drag it through the muck, I just never did end up explaining what I disliked about it when I watched it earlier. Now that I have carry on with the enjoyment.

I guess my favorite parts are the small character moments... for instance when his wife briefly feels kinship with the divorcee or stuff with the owner of the firm.

[Derek]

I think I've already explained this fairly coherently. The lines aren't asides or casual occurrences they're like... 'No but seriously guys, I'm really a racist. In case you didn't follow.'

The cursing in Deadwood is a different but similar problem. I simply found it became redundant, but it's never belabored.

Ok, those lines struck me as realistically representing the prevailing attitudes of the times and things I imagine actual ad execs would have said behind closed doors all the time. But TEHO.

[Qrazy]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't exclude me from this. I had a very limited exposure to the mysogyny, as well as everything else on the show. I just found that in the first couple episodes it served a purpose on the show and was more naturally ingrained in the fabric of the setting. But it was certainly off-putting and played a part in my decision to stop watching.

Fair, sorry about that.

[Qrazy]

Ok, those lines struck me as realistically representing the prevailing attitudes of the times and things I imagine actual ad execs would have said behind closed doors all the time. But TEHO.

You guys need to stop with the acronyms.

Well for instance I wouldn't have been bothered by the scene if they'd done the chinaman bit and then that was that... there's a Chinaman in my office! That's mildly racist and demonstrative of their attitudes... but then there has to be an 'Out of the office by noon' line. That's what bothers me.

Or for instance... 'Have we hired any Jews?' (/incredulous) without the follow-up line.

[EvilShoe]

Mark your calendars: New season starts August 16th!
:pritch:

[number8]

I don't find these criticisms valid.

[Qrazy]

I don't find these criticisms valid.

Well you're wrong.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I don't find these criticisms valid.

Congrats.

[number8]

Well you're wrong.

Probably. Because I never even noticed the kids thing. I don't remember any scene with a plastic bag. And when the wife told the kids to put on their seatbelts, my mind wasn't "Haha, they don't wear seatbelts," but it was, "Oh, she's shaking and telling the kids to buckle up. She's going to crash, isn't she?"

As for the sexism, I didn't think much of it, because I don't think the misogyny displayed is that archaic. Most of what the men engage in on the show are the same type of sexual harassment still going on today. In fact, I think it's pretty cool that they're showing the early forms of women's sexual liberation. That's what I noticed, not the sexism.

Barring all that, I'm enjoying the show.

It pays to be obtuse.

[Qrazy]

As for the sexism, I didn't think much of it, because I don't think the misogyny displayed is that archaic. Most of what the men engage in on the show are the same type of sexual harassment still going on today. In fact, I think it's pretty cool that they're showing the early forms of women's sexual liberation. That's what I noticed, not the sexism.


Yikes, where do you live?

[number8]

Yikes, where do you live?

Tehran. Where do you live?

[Ezee E]

Haven't watched the show, but amctv.com is letting you create yourself as a Mad Man character.

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs121.snc1/5208_112415476945_697101945_27 58253_6440831_n.jpg

[number8]

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs159.snc1/5934_515685486316_132500557_30 765763_2605099_n.jpg

[trotchky]

edit: oh wait i skipped a bunch of steps by mistake

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1341/madmenfullbody.jpg

ok thats better

[Qrazy]

Tehran. Where do you live?

eye donut beleev u.

Canada.

[Mara]

You know, I'm a little bit sick of reading articles and responses to this show talking about Don and Betty's "loveless" marriage. I think that's a facile and condescending way to look at a complicated relationship. I think it also makes everyone feel better about his infidelities, if we can pretend he doesn't love Betty.

[Qrazy]

Yeah, same here.

Qrazy, are you planning on checking out the second season?

If I finally do not for a long while. I want to watch Rome, Oz, Kings and a bunch of others first.

[Philosophe_rouge]

You know, I'm a little bit sick of reading articles and responses to this show talking about Don and Betty's "loveless" marriage. I think that's a facile and condescending way to look at a complicated relationship. I think it also makes everyone feel better about his infidelities, if we can pretend he doesn't love Betty.

Agreed, there is a lot about his behavior that suggests that he truly loves and cares for her and his family. It obviously doesn't forgive his infidelities, but it certainly complicates them.

[Cult]

I just finished season 2, and I really think KF, Qrazy, and all other naysayers need to check it out.

I myself was uncomfortable with the misogyny in season 1, but a big part of that was because the show was otherwise so masculine, and the female characters didn't have much to do. In season 2, they're expanded upon in such compelling ways, you'd have to see it to believe it. The sexist actions committed by the men are treated much more maturely now--it's obvious the show thinks they're just as wrong as we do.

Aside from all that, it was just a brilliant, addictive piece of television that blows season 1 out of the water.

[Cult]

Just in time for season 3. The premiere episode of which is airing as we speak, I think.

Watching it now. :D

[Cult]

Did no one else catch it? It was a pretty good episode--nothing amazing, but the show has never really been an explosive, cliffhanger kind of program. Especially not at the beginning of seasons.

I didn't really like how Betty and Don seemed to be "fine" now, relationship-wise. I know the final shot of last season implied that they'd be giving things another go, but I still feel a bit cheated that everything seems back to normal as if nothing happened. It's still early to tell, though.

[Mara]

Oh, I thought Don catching Sal rounding third base was pretty shocking.

[megladon8]

So I just recently found out that Mad Men is a network TV series. I could have sworn it was ShowCase.

That means Christina Hendricks never reveals whether or not she actually has torpedoes, or just wears very form-enhancing outfits.

It is a scientific study that must be carried out, and since this show doesn't seem to agree with me, my interest has declined.

[Cult]

I don't really have a problem with Betty's attitude. I'm not sure where their relationship is really at but I wouldn't be surprised if we found out that Betty is willfully imagining a tranquil relationship for her own sake. Because it's really easier. The events of the second season likely haven't been forgotten. I think the idea of expecting, and raising, a child with a loving husband is very seductive. It's far more comfortable than facing the burden of being a wholly independent and questioning woman. I mean, she tried that out in the second season with mixed results (it was both liberating and dreary) and I think it brought her to a really lonely and uncertain place. Loving and trusting Don, even if it requires a touch of willful disavowal and repression, is probably the easier route for a woman who doesn't quite know how to be alone. Even if she still has her suspicions, she needs Don now more than ever.

And maybe there isn't any disavowal involved and she really and truly believes Don is going to make an effort. After all, that letter he sent her in the second season finale was quite moving, and I wouldn't underestimate its affect on her. Thus, perhaps she is able to both enjoy and believe in a happy relationship with Don. And if so, that's lucky for her, because the alternative would be so bleak and dismal, wouldn't it? Especially with a child on the way. I mean, it's certainly easier than being an indignant and lonely housewife separated from the comforting support of her husband. The idea of Don and Betty Draper is alluring, its Betty's crutch, and at this time in her life, she has to believe in it. Or she at least desperately wants to.

In a way, the premiere exemplifies one of Weiner's driving ideas: people don't change. Don regressed back into infidelity, and Betty has resumed a trusting position wherein she is still dependent on Don for her own happiness and well-being.

There is also the possibility that her happiness is predicated on her belief that she finally made a stand, she scared Don, and got him about as close to a confession as he's going to get. That's a victory in a way, and perhaps it has given her a sense of security and sure footing that the audience knows is actually quite tenuous.

I see all of those as possibilities, I just hope the show addresses it again and doesn't just drop the whole arc of them having problems. Not that I think it will, I'm just a little worried about how rosy everything seemed without even a slight hint that Betty was still wary. Anyhoo, I hope you're right and there's reasoning behind it.


Oh, I thought Don catching Sal rounding third base was pretty shocking.
Meh, it was a good moment and well-played, but not that shocking to me. It had to happen eventually, and Don catching him was probably one of the least scandalous ways it could go down (because Don is much more respectful and understanding than the other coworkers). Also, their discussion at the end made it clear that Don wasn't going to blackmail him or probably even bring it up again.

Now, it was a little shocking how far the show took the actual scene. I think it was more suggestive than any of the straight love scenes have ever been, and that's pretty daring!

[Mara]

Now, it was a little shocking how far the show took the actual scene. I think it was more suggestive than any of the straight love scenes have ever been, and that's pretty daring!

Yeah, it was pretty explicit. Especially for non-HBO, non-Showtime. I'd say it was roughly as explicit as that scene where Dan fingerbangs the comedian's wife.

[Cult]

You're right about it having to happen eventually but I definitely found it pretty shocking nonetheless. I suppose it was just me sympathizing with how devastating that must have been for Sal, I really couldn't help but share in his immediate despair. Incidentally, I had also, just minutes earlier, been wondering if the show would ever have Don find out about his secret.
Exactly, and as you said it had to be Don--which also contributed to it not being that shocking of a moment. :P But now we're just splitting hairs. I thought it worked perfectly and I'm glad it wasn't someone less forgiving to find Sal out. Just not technically shocking--though certainly an engaging arc, and one of the only really exciting ones presented in the episode.

I thought one of the most heartbreaking moments was in s2, when the foreign guy came out to everyone, and Cosgrove--the object of Sal's crush--says something like "I knew queers existed, I just don't want to work with them" and the following shot of Sal's expression.

I really wonder whether the show will ultimately have him outed and have his marriage and work life subsequently devastated. Or maybe they'll have him carry on in secret, maybe eventually coming out willingly as 60's America becomes more liberated. One of the things the show does so brilliantly is plants little seeds and then expands on them far into the future. It makes things all the more poignant and believable.

[Mara]

Next week I'm hoping for more Peggy and more Joan. But this was a strong opening.

[Mara]

Footnotes of Mad Men. (http://madmenfootnotes.com/)

Interesting site giving more information on peripheral things from the show, like the art in Bert's office, Peggy's birth control, etc. Also includes era print ads.

[Amnesiac]

Footnotes of Mad Men. (http://madmenfootnotes.com/)


Pretty cool.

[Mara]

I've been singing that stupid "Bye Bye Birdie" song for days. I don't even like that musical.

[Amnesiac]

I thought we were going to get some Pete/Peggy interaction this week. Guess not.

[Cult]

Loved Joan's little song. Yay for the female-centric episodes! I'm starting to like Jane more, too.

[megladon8]

This is a fantastic read.

Jack Nicholson writes and article about "Mad Men", and conducts an interview with January Jones. (http://www.interviewmagazine.com/film/january-jones/)

[Mara]

I will bet anyone $10 that Jack hit that.

[megladon8]

I will bet anyone $10 that Jack hit that.


Is this even a question?

I bet Jack has had a foursome with Jessica Biel, Jessica Alba and Halle Berry.

Probably did cocaine off their butts, too.

[megladon8]

Cool article/interview. You watch the show?


No, but I really want to get into it.

I was just supremely disappointed when I found out it's a network TV show. I know that sounds silly...I was just hoping for something gritty, foul-mouthed and mature like "The Wire".

[amberlita]

J.J. - ...When I read the script and saw that she decided to cheat on her husband after all that has happened to her, I was kind of confused. So I asked Matthew Weiner [the creator of Mad Men] about that scene—I said, “What is she doing? Is she getting revenge?�—and he said, “Stop thinking about anything. It could be that the world is falling apart or maybe she’s just horny. She’s pregnant and she’s falling apart, so she sleeps with a guy. You don’t have to think about it.�

This is what I love about the show. There is not a single action or exchange or look that is explained. This is why the characters are so organic and vibrantly human - cause we may understand them a bit but we don't understand them at all, just like most people you meet in life that you can spend an eternity trying to figure out their complexities but in reality even they don't understand why they do the things they do or say the things they say. That's why the show is so poetic to me.

It's comforting to know that Weiner and the writers aren't trying to write a mystery to solve. They aren't being purposefully cryptic to try and force you to figure out why they made Don sleep with so-and-so or why the little girl stole the $5 (or better yet, why she gave it back). They are just painting characters on the television for interpretation.

So why did Peggy give that speech to her secretary? Was she trying to muscle around a weaker woman cause of her new empowerment? Was she trying to convince herself that she has her shit together when she's really a house of cards? There is no right or wrong answer. I suspect not even Peggy (or the actress) knows the answer to that question.

I don't think there is a single other show that is doing this. It must be wonderful to be an actor on this show, to have that sort of freedom to play your character without footnotes.

[Cult]

Tonight's episode was good. I hope Peggy doesn't leave Sterling Cooper. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't do that--but maybe they will, and it will focus on the rivalry between the two companies. Who knows. As long as she doesn't get any less screen time...

[Mara]

Holy crap. Just caught up. Was anyone else completely shocked?

[Silencio]

Holy crap. Just caught up. Was anyone else completely shocked?I don't think anyone could've even remotely guessed that would happen. Hilarious, though. Mostly because it's just such a huge WTF for the show.

[Mara]

The scene when the janitors were washing the blood off the glass was just about as surreal as this show has ever been. And the quips! Roger, I love you.

[Acapelli]

worth it for the jokes afterward alone

[amberlita]

I don't think anyone could've even remotely guessed that would happen. Hilarious, though. Mostly because it's just such a huge WTF for the show.

http://www.fotolode.com/images/amberlita/1230ihj.gif

[amberlita]

Definately a great episode. The ending was, I agree, a powerfully quiet moment. Who knew the old bat had it in him to muscle Don Draper?


There's a sense of wise temperance there that's both mature and commendable. Don isn't petulant or overly sullen about losing out on the promotion. Instead, I think he's taking the sting of disappointment as a lesson. That is, the world has a callous sense of humor, and you sort of need to humble yourself before its capriciousness or become its stupid victim.

I'm wondering if this latest episode has shed any light on how you view the last one as described above. While I disagreed then that he wasn't overly sullen about losing London it's doubly so now after this episode that was like a big Don temper tantrum. What looks like wise temperance is really quietly childish fits. Sterling Cooper tries to force him to sign a contract so he snaps at Peggy. Betty grows a backbone so Don just stomps off. Don's unhappy with his lot in life so he escapes to a hotel with some hitchhikers. Cooper makes him sign the contract and in a huff he punishes Roger Sterling. The last thing I expect to see Don Draper do after any of this, is take a lesson.

Side note: I love Don's new secretary. I love the head-cock she gives him when he meets with Hilton and tells her to "Hold all my calls". She gives him this perfect look as if to say, "Please, who do you think I am? Lois?" I guess I like that up to this point she appears to just be a really great secretary and nothing more submersive. It's refreshing.

[amberlita]

Oh then I'd disagree about his "maturation" after his disappointment the previous episode as well. Don's never been one to lose his cool so I'm not quite sure what we could have expected other than what we got - he stayed calm but his anger manifested as a passive aggressive attitude (the first time he snapped at Peggy) and blatant pouting the entire episode, even going so far as to grumpily insult the champagne at Joan's going away party.

I think you're right in that he got over it. But I don't think he did it maturely by accepting it, reflecting inwardly and moving on. He was still bitchy right up until the moment he got a new shiny prize flashed in front of him in the shape of Conrad Hilton's new account. He got to be on top again. He got to be the winner, the hero. He got to be desired. I don't think there was any moment of clarity for Don. He simply got distracted by something new to pursue and obtain.


Also, what about that conversation between Don and the teacher? It seemed like she was hiding her lust behind some ethical rectitude. She probably wanted him more than he wanted her.

Yeah she kinda creeped me out. I actually was a little offended on Don's behalf because it was a pretty innocent conversation and she jumped to conclusions ("oh you must want me bad"). Seems pretty self-centered and yet not entirely baseless since we have the benefit of knowing he has been desiring her.

[amberlita]

Yeah, this is a valid possibility. Yeah, it could just be the cleansing waters of success. He's back on top, ego wise, so it's easy to placate the sting of his disappointment. Hmm... but the wisdom he offered is nonetheless legitimate and how can we know for sure that he isn't earnestly subscribing to it himself? Otherwise, why not take Connie's offer? I suppose there is that sense of dignified restraint, restraint for the sake of ego ("I'm better than this"). But surely that restraint is commendable given how nebulous his intentions were (we're free to interpret it how we like) and how he just had an awesome promotion plucked away from him. I mean, he didn't act how others would have acted in that situation. There's something commendable there, and that would be the action itself, but you're right, the motivations behind that action could be purely selfish and egotistical. I conflated the indisputable goodness of the action with his intentions and I can't exactly do that convincingly considering I don't know what Don was actually thinking then and there.

Ah okay, I see what you're driving at now. Don does seem to have an uncanny ability to assess a situation for something more than what is going on at the surface and tempered is certainly an accurate description of his demeanor on nearly evertyhing. It was a great piece of advice indeed. Atleast in the short run you may be right in that he was heeding his own advice and perhaps the lesson to be learned from losing London wasn't even apparent to him until he spoke those words to Hilton. Even if he did have some clarity, I wonder how long it would last. As I mentioned earlier, Don is not the kind of guy who appears to learn from his mistakes when it means satisfying a need he has. All of season 2 his family and his marriage are about to slip through his fingers becasue of his philandering ways and first thing we get in this season's first episode is Don again cheating on his wife.


Yeah, I'm wondering where that's going to go. At first I thought it was too sensational an angle and that the writers wouldn't press it, but now I'm thinking that I could be wrong.

It's definately a slower burn then we are used to with the women he eyes. If she is supposed to represent something at this point then her symbolism is lost on me so I can only assume she is meant to be signficant later this season in some way. I suspect Weiner will subvert expectation and Don will wind up not pursuing her, for whatever reason.

[Mara]

Some excellent discussion. I'm going to be completely shallow for a moment:

Holy cats, Peggy's red-and-cream ensemble was cute.

And I want Joan back... now.

But this episode was solid and enlightening. I love the non-linear storytelling and the slowly-growing seeds. This show does "impending doom" beautifully.

[Acapelli]

Don's unhappy with his lot in life so he escapes to a hotel with some hitchhikers. Cooper makes him sign the contract and in a huff he punishes Roger Sterling.
while i agree with everything else you said, don was entirely justified in calling out roger to bertram. going behind his back to betty about the contract was a total dick move

[amberlita]

while i agree with everything else you said, don was entirely justified in calling out roger to bertram. going behind his back to betty about the contract was a total dick move

I agree to a point. Dick move? Check. Deserved to get called out? Most definately. Realistic that he can have no further contact with Roger Sterling for the next 3 years? Not at all, and Don would have known that. His lashing out against Roger was an emotionally exaggerated response, like the first time I got caught sneaking out of the house as a teenager and my Mom told me "I can't trust you ever again". She was just pissed and wanted to hurt me. It seemed an uncharacteristically blunt move by Don who is far more sinister than that (like in Season 1 getting Roger liquor'd and seashell'd up to take the stairs and vomit in front of the entire office as payback for hitting on Betty). Don was on full tilt and someone needed to feel his wrath.

Not that I feel bad for Roger. And hey, it's better than Don taking another opportunity to piss in Peggy's cornflakes instead.

[Ivan Drago]

So is this show really that good or just the best thing to watch on a shitty network?

[amberlita]

I think this is all pretty accurate. What's interesting about this instance is that Don is usually so deliberate when it comes to his words and convictions. This may have been a bit of cranky petulance coming to the surface, but does that mean that Don will realize the impracticality of his request and accept the inevitable (that is, that he will have to communicate with Roger sometime)? Can you really see him backing down from his statement? I suppose he might have to now that the contract is signed and all but if Don truly doesn't want contact with Roger, then he's probably going to at least attempt to tenaciously pursue that desire.

It was definitely an interesting bomb for him to drop, especially when you think about how feasible it may or may not be. The Don and Roger tension is definitely ratcheting up this season and I'm quite enjoying it. That rivalry has a good pedigree, too, so it doesn't seem at all random.

Also, what does Roger do for the company anyway? Is he as irrelevant as Putnam, Powell and Lowe's name snub suggested? Maybe it wouldn't be all that hard to avoid him, after all.

I dunno. I just can't imagine Don huffing out of a conference room if he walks in and sees Roger there. I could see him telling his secretary to say he isn't in if he comes around, but think of all the executive meetings they've had already this season and while Roger may be pretty worthless at all of them (though to be honest, I'm not sure what Cooper contributes either) he is still present at all of them and it'd be pretty cheap to conveniently just have Roger be absent from those meetings from now on.

Here's to hoping his vocal declaration really turns into a silent war cause their so-called "tiff" this season wasn't very impressive. I don't know how Cooper spotted it in the first place.

[amberlita]

Oh and I love Breaking Bad. I can't say one is better than the other. I'm just glad they don't run at the same time. Whenever each show is on I'm convinced I'm watching the best show on television.

[Ivan Drago]

This strikes me as a strange question. I mean, I never judged Mad Men solely within the context of AMC's output as if AMC were the only network available to me or anyone else. I mean, people who hate FOX News don't go ahead and say it's the best news station that FOX has to offer so it is thereby indisputably worth watching. I highly doubt this is the sort of logic that any fan (or dissenter) of the show subscribes to. Nor have I ever heard of anyone criticizing or praising this show by saying 'Oh, it's not great, but it's the best thing on AMC so I watch it each and every week'. If people say it's good, it's likely because it's actually good and just 'good for AMC'.

Oh ok.

But honestly, when your network shows Catwoman and Jaws: The Revenge on primetime, there's at least a slight problem.

[amberlita]

Really? I'm finding the rivalry pretty compelling, myself. It's not overblown or too sensational yet but it's definitely intriguing. Mostly because it's interesting to think about why Don hates Roger. Perhaps it has to do with privacy. That is, Roger flippantly (and repeatedly) stepping beyond the stringent boundaries that Don has put up. First, Roger learned about Don and Betty's separation from Jane. So, the stringent divide between work and home was compromised thanks to Roger and Jane's clandestine romance. Then he used that knowledge to put Don at ease in the bar, going on to quote his passing comment as part of the justification for leaving Mona. Mona reprimands Don, and he quickly realizes that he's been a pawn in one of Roger's self-aggrandizing games. He's thereby been implicated in the destruction of another family (the man has enough guilt as it is!)

Then there are the other reasons that might be fueling Don's vehement dislike: such as Roger's season one pass at Betty and the way he keeps ostentatiously flaunting his affected stance of 'happiness' with Jane. After all, Don and him were both at the same crossroad and Roger took the road that Don rejected. Don may be secretly green with envy. He sees his own desires, his tamed id, in Roger, and perhaps he desperately wants to be above that. In that sense, his judgmental stance may be a form of catharsis for him. Rejecting Roger may be like rejecting the worst parts of himself. Perhaps that's easier than turning those critical skills on himself. Or a part of him truly believes that, for all of his philandering, family is not something you should so carelessly leave behind (at least not with Roger's distastefully blithe conviction, anyway). Don did it once and it's still a source of heavy conflict for him after all these years, and his eager return to Betty at the end of season 2 proves that he's not quite so willing to throw away family again (yet).


Bingo, that's my theory too. The spark of Don's disapproval seemed to start when Roger decided to leave Mona for his secretary and has only worsened as he's seen Roger indulge his every whim. I think Don's realized just how little he has in common with Roger and yeah, might even be a little jealous too. Don is a man who secretly suffers and carries a legion of secrets - discovering that someone else has a secret only endears that person to Don more, like Peggy or Sal. He respects that and I think now that Don isn't able to share the "unhappily married perpetually philandering husband" role with Roger, there's nothing to tie them together besides booze and cigarettes. He can't even connect on a professional level like he does with Joan, both of them being the masters of their respective crafts. Roger is just a useless id.

Oh, and I didn't mean to imply that I want to do away with their rivalry completely. Just that I'd prefer kind of a quiet open war (like Don purposefully humiliating Roger in Season 1) rather than an extended silent treatment.

[Mara]

True. Don's revenge in season 1 was brilliant.

I just rewatched this episode with a friend, whom I introduced to the show and she's making her way through season 1. That episode is completely stunning. I had forgotten how many interesting storylines play out in that one hour.

[[ETM]]

I wish the various season discussions were somehow separated. I have just finished S2, but I don't want to be spoiled for S3.

[[ETM]]

We can all probably spoiler tag the S3 discussions from here on out until you're caught up.

Nah, that would be too much to ask. I'll just get up to speed and read the previous pages. I just wish I could have been involved. Thanks, though.

[[ETM]]

A caught up with it quicker than I thought. I'll be reading over the comments in more detail and formulate some thoughts of my own.

[number8]

Sesame Street spoof
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgvKCfZqxrQ)

[Duncan]

I watched the first season recently. Really liked it. Maybe I watched it a bit too fast though, because sometimes time seemed to be moving very quickly, and then a baby popped out of nowhere and I was like, "Huh." I really wish they hadn't done the fake out ending in the finale. Total bush league move in what was a consistently class act up till that point. Characters are human enough to remain surprising. Hamm is good, but I find his Big Emotional Moments (I'm thinking of the Carousel thing here) fall a bit flat. Favourite line in the whole season was Pete's secretary (forgetting her name at the moment...) saying, "I hope I didn't step on them," referring to a pair of glasses. I thought that was totally heartbreaking.

[[ETM]]

Hamm was hilarious on SNL... the skits were so-so, but his intro and a couple of jokes were awesome.

[Mara]

Let's just say that Don should go back to calling himself Dick.

[[ETM]]

Let's just say that Don should go back to calling himself Dick.

That "flashback" to his birth was awesome.

[Silencio]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2h5o0lt.png

Shit's about to hit the fan.

[[ETM]]

Shit's about to hit the fan.

Or, in the context of the show - "Foot's about to hit the mower."

[amberlita]

;212213']Or, in the context of the show - "Foot's about to hit the mower."

Speaking of, I can't believe Lois is still working there. Unbelievable. She runs over a VP's foot with a mower crippling him for life and she keeps her job, Sal rebuffs an inappropriate sexual advance and he gets canned. :crazy:

I wonder if Peggy is still banging Duck. And I noticed that despite getting lectured by Don a couple episodes back that she still got the Hilton account.

[[ETM]]

I've noticed that the writers tend to disregard some subplots entirely for a period. For example - almost no Pete for two episodes, Peggy's private life doesn't seem to progress at all etc.

[Cult]

;212213']Or, in the context of the show - "Foot's about to hit the mower."

Heh. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't confront him right away. She was all ready to do it, and he never came home. Maybe now she'll let it simmer until the next time he pisses her off. Or she'll keep it on the downlow, but use it as an excuse to finally begin her affair.

Either way, I cannot wait!

[amberlita]

It was a great ending, and I was squeeling silently as Betty ruffled through the drawer. Still, do you really think Betty fully comprehends what she saw in that drawer? It's actually a pretty outlandish scenario for Don to steal another person's identity and would require an impressive amount of deduction skills - which I don't think Betty has.

I think it's more likely that she believes that Don used to be married before her and that he has some connection to a guy named Dick Whitman. I'll be surprised if she's put all the pieces together, though I guess Pete was able to do it so how hard can it be?

[amberlita]

Three cheers for Betty! Kick ass, girl! :pritch:

Been waiting 3 seasons for that payoff and it didn't disappoint. Perfect. Thank you, writers. Thank you.

[Mara]

Excellent, excellent episode.

"Did you get caught?"

And Joan smashing a lamp over her husband's head-- Roger being tempted by an old love for once instead of a new one-- Roger showing how much he genuinely cares for Joan-- Joan's husband inevitably getting his testicles blow off in 'Nam-- Don losing his cool, for once-- Suzanne being humiliated and dumped "for now," because she's like watercolor (http://plagiarist.com/poetry/582/) and washes off.

[Acapelli]

i found don's goodbye to suzanne kind of heartbreaking actually

[[ETM]]

It was worth it if only for Don being completely and absolutely helpless for once.

Great ending, too: "And who're you supposed to be?"

[amberlita]

I'm still not sure I see the purpose of Don's affair with Suzanne. She seemed to be a genuinely good person who developed too many feelings for Don but exited the stage gracefully. She's in and out and had little impact. I wonder if she was there just for contrast. To highlight what a mature step it was for Don to decline from running out the door and escaping with her after being confronted by Betty. He had a nurturing, beautiful, carefree sprite to start a new life with and instead he chose to stay and face the hardship of salvaging the life he'd built and owning up to his lies.

Despite Don's "not for now" comment to Suzanne in their goodbye call, I think this may very well be the end of Don's philandering ways. Part of the reason it was so easy to betray Betty repeatedly was because their entire life was built on a lie to begin with. One big lie makes the next lie easier to stomach and hence it snowballs. When she confronted him the Draper persona melted away it was all Dick Whitman all the time and I believe having his secret out might just keep a lot of the old Don-facade acts at bay.

I just wonder how Betty is going to respond.

[[ETM]]

Suzanne was the first one to willingly start something with Don, knowing it probably won't go anywhere, and (at least at the start) wanting nothing more for herself. I don't think we've seen the last of her, though. Her brother has to come back into the story at some point and in a bad way... I certainly didn't expect to feel for her so much, but I felt really sorry for her after the way everything turned out. I mean, she must have been in that car for hours, poor thing. All the time while Don and Betty were talking and afterwards, I was thinking "Poor Suzanne is sitting in that car".

[Mara]

Whoa. Complete tonal shift. I think I may have loved it, but I need to rewatch it and check.

[[ETM]]

The finale had the most memorable moments of any episode so far by a large margin. I think I'm gonna see it again because I loved it.

[Lucky]

I need to give this show another chance. Winter would be a better time to get into this show than summer methinks.

[[ETM]]

I need to give this show another chance. Winter would be a better time to get into this show than summer methinks.

I was on the fence for most of S1 and 2, but I've found S3 to be quite a bit better than both. The S3 finale is literally pay-off for 3 seasons of character development.

[[ETM]]

Uh... pure WIN: Joan paper doll (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nobodyssweetheart/4089805461/)

With accordion! And vase!:pritch:

[Mara]

;216798']Uh... pure WIN: Joan paper doll (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nobodyssweetheart/4089805461/)

With accordion! And vase!:pritch:

AND BLOOD-SPLATTERED GRESS DRESS.

I'm following you from forum to forum to comment on this. KILLER LAWNMOWER FOR THE WIN!

[Lucky]

I thought this would be an appropriate place to post this:

January Jones on SNL (http://www.hulu.com/watch/109030/saturday-night-live-a-ladies-guide-to-party-planning#s-p3-sr-i1)

[Adam]

She was pretty awful, overall

[Lucky]

Alright, I'm finally on board. It took well into the first season to pique my interest, but I now understand the love. I'm about to watch the second season finale and must give the writers a tremendous hand for how naturally and delicately the characters were built to this point. I expect this trend to continue in the future, and that is the main reason I will continue to watch this show.

As a side question, what is the consensus on January Jones? She can nail certain aspects of her character but she's one of those actresses who as she reads dialogue I can visually see the words on a script. I suppose that means I don't find her especially talented. Certainly looks the part, though. Can't stand the actor who plays Campbell, either. I know he's not exactly a fan-favorite character, but the way he talks just grates on me.

[Mara]

I've actually grown quite fond of Pete. His character is such an immature bastard, but he plays it really well.

I would say I was fascinated by the first two seasons, but wasn't sure if I liked it or not. The third season was, I think, the first one I actively enjoyed.

January Jones is usually pretty good, but sometimes is just too bland and colorless. I can't stand her character.

[Mara]

Oh, I am NOT HAPPY.

Slight spoilers I guess (for who is in and who is not in next season's cast):

Bye, bye, Sal. :sad:

http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/kecks-exclusives/one-less-man-on-mad-men-3858.html

[[ETM]]

Yeah, I heard that the other day.

I wish they had given the character at least some kind of closure.

[EvilShoe]

;237605']Yeah, I heard that the other day.

I wish they had given the character at least some kind of closure.
Eh.

I thought they had given him proper closure. There's just no place for the gays in the 60s. Sad stuff.

Mixed feelings though: Sal was one of my favs, yet I'm glad Weiner doesn't keep characters around for the sake of it.

[[ETM]]

I thought they had given him proper closure. There's just no place for the gays in the 60s. Sad stuff.

The last time we see him, he's about to go into a "gay park", and lying to his wife. That's pretty bad for closure.

[EvilShoe]

;237625']The last time we see him, he's about to go into a "gay park", and lying to his wife. That's pretty bad for closure.
It's an open ending, but it gives a clear indication what trajectory the rest of his life will follow.

Mad Men has always been about subtlety when it comes to its characters. It'd feel out of place if they wrapped up Sal's storyline completely (He's dead! He lives with a gay man! He's turned into a peacock!)

[Ezee E]

Into the second disc. Still not very intrigued yet. I hear it gets better, but how so? There's plenty of other shows that I'd rather watch right now.

[Ezee E]

Finishing up the second disc, and there is a character I'm starting to like a lot. Joan Halloway (?), the red-headed secretary leader.

[[ETM]]

You're doing fine, E. Keep at it.

[Mara]

Finishing up the second disc, and there is a character I'm starting to like a lot. Joan Halloway (?), the red-headed secretary leader.

She's at or very near the top for me.

[Derek]

She's at or very near the top for me.

She became one of the most interesting characters on the show in Season 3. Of course, I've always loved her for other reasons.

[Glass Co.]

1. Joan
2. Don
3. Peggy
4. Sal
5. Pete (in the sense that I can appreciate his character)

[Mara]

Hmm.

1. Joan
2. Peggy
3. Roger
4. Harry
5. Sal
6. Pete (in the sense that I appreciate his character)

I don't know how or if Don fits anywhere on that list.

[Derek]

I don't know how or if Don fits anywhere on that list.

But you yourself said he's interesting! I can't fathom how you can't find him more interesting than most of those on your list, especially given your caviat for Pete.

BTW, I basically agree with your ordering if you stick Don at #1 and move Pete up 2 spots.

[Glass Co.]

Damn I forgot Roger. He can bump Pete, I guess.

[Mara]

BTW, I basically agree with your ordering if you stick Don at #1 and move Pete up 2 spots.

Oh, INTERESTING. I thought we were doing favorites.

Yeah, Don might be the most interesting.

[[ETM]]

You can say what you want about Don, but he's one magnificent bastard.

Pun intended.

[Glass Co.]

;237827']You can say what you want about Don, but he's one magnificent bastard.

Pun intended.

Yes, but even he can't beat the magnificent bastardry of Roger. That guy could walk around with a swastika on him and somehow make it charming.

[Ezee E]

Finished the third disc. Getting into it.

The women in the show are so much more appealing and interesting than the guys. The only guy that I actually like is the young, cocky guy (don't know all the names yet).

I'll probably continue on with this show. Might take a break with either Six Feet Under (S2)

[Ezee E]

While I didn't care for the military flashback, this show really gets into a stride on the fourth disc. Good stuff.

[Mara]

What episode are you on, E?

[Ezee E]

What episode are you on, E?

I finished the season last night. The message I had was just before I watched the season finale.

Consider me a big fan at this point. I'll still probably watch something in between, but I'm really looking forward to Season 2.

The Labor Day Weekend episode is what hooked me. There's some great stuff there.

I still say the female characters are the most interesting thing about that show.

[Mara]

I feel comfortable in saying that the seasons have improved sequentially. Actually, a somewhat big jump between the second and third season.

[Ezee E]

I feel comfortable in saying that the seasons have improved sequentially. Actually, a somewhat big jump between the second and third season.
Season 3 is on DVD isn't it?

[Mara]

Season 3 is on DVD isn't it?

Looks like... March?

[Ezee E]

Looks like... March?
Huzzah!

[dreamdead]

We're finished with the third disc of season 2. Joan is indeed getting more interesting; meanwhile, "Maidenform" (ep. 6 of season 2) is a fantastic stand-alone episode, save for the intrusion of contemporary music.

[Ezee E]

My parents have Season 2. I was eating dinner at their house and decided to borrow that, and started it right up.

No wait time now!

[Lucky]

We're finished with the third disc of season 2. Joan is indeed getting more interesting; meanwhile, "Maidenform" (ep. 6 of season 2) is a fantastic stand-alone episode, save for the intrusion of contemporary music.

I remember being very bothered by that as well.

[Mara]

I don't remember the music. What was it, and in what context?

[dreamdead]

I don't remember the music. What was it, and in what context?

As the women (Peggy, Joan, Bets) dress to get ready for their day, The Decemberists' "The Infanta" plays.

We finished up season 2, meanwhile. So begins the slow burn while waiting for Season 3 to be released. Pete and Peggy promise to get more interesting, and Joan is finally having storylines that involve her. Awesomesauce.

[Mara]

As the women (Peggy, Joan, Bets) dress to get ready for their day, The Decemberists' "The Infanta" plays.

How weird. I'll have to rewatch.

[amberlita]

How weird. I'll have to rewatch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnLpQuQ7Vs8&feature=fvw

[Mara]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnLpQuQ7Vs8&feature=fvw

Thanks.

I... don't get it. The song doesn't even match the action. I guess I could understand if it enhanced the mood somehow.

[Winston*]

Season 3 spoiler
Did Pete rape that German girl?

[EvilShoe]

Season 3 spoiler
Did Pete rape that German girl?
Yes.

[Mara]

Season 3 spoiler
Did Pete rape that German girl?

I don't think it's a cut-and-dry answer one way or the other. She was certainly coerced.

[Winston*]

Then that thing with Don and Sal in the episode following. Upping the creep factor in the main characters this season I see.

[Mara]

Then that thing with Don and Sal in the episode following.

One of the hardest scenes to watch of the whole series for me. Just aggravating, even in retrospect.

[[ETM]]

This is incredibly cool and I want it. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Mad-Men-View-Master-with-3-disks-of-pictures_W0QQitemZ270541060416 QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultD omain_0?hash=item3efd80f940#ht _506wt_1165)

[Ezee E]

Damn. Halfway through the second season, wanted to read through this thread, but most of it is talking about the third season, minus the Qrazy/KFan hate that I also had at the beginning, but got through it. Now I'm liking it a ton.

3rd season is out next week though!

[Ezee E]

Not going to lie, but I was slightly disappointed with how the second season ended.

The episodes in California seem like something I might appreciate more the second time around. I loved the conference with the missles that attacked Russia though.

[Mara]

The only season with a GREAT season finale is season 3.

And I'm not a huge fan of Don in California. We get it, he's a scumbaggy mess.

[Ezee E]

Don's kind of a boring character in general I think. Jon Hamm just manages to make it work somehow.

[Mara]

I find Don insufferable, but Jon Hamm is insanely talented and makes me intrigued enough to be invested.

Part of the trouble I had in the beginning was how much I disliked the characters on the show. But some of the biggest bastards (Pete, Roger, etc.) all have human and relatable moments. And I genuinely have grown to love Peggy and Joan, in spite of repeated bad decisions. Kinda love Cooper, too.

[[ETM]]

Don is not boring... he's just frustrating. He's obviously brilliant at what he does, and at times he's able to see straight through to the essence of things. But at times he makes such idiotic choices and just makes you want to kick his stupid, arrogant ass.

[Mara]

It is telling that he chooses, out of an interest in his family, to forsake what would obviously be an attractive opportunity for a man like him: living out a nomadic life of hedonistic pleasure and fluid indeterminacy.

I think this idea, though not this exact scenario, was beautifully, amazingly done in....

Season 3 when Betty confronts him about his past, and he looks at the door in the kitchen. Like, "I could run right now." Chills.


Plus, we meet Anna and see a side to Don that we had never seen before: the unadulterated, and perhaps a bit naive, glee that he feels in first meeting and falling for Betty.

I liked this part a lot more than the rich-hippies-in-pools bit.

[Ezee E]

How did the rich hippies make their money? Anyone know? Perhaps I missed that part.

[Mara]

How did the rich hippies make their money? Anyone know? Perhaps I missed that part.

I don't think they said, exactly. There was certainly one side note about tax evasion.

[Benny Profane]

How did the rich hippies make their money? Anyone know? Perhaps I missed that part.

I don't think it's said but because they were in California I had an inkling it was via the movie biz.

[Mara]

I don't think it's said but because they were in California I had an inkling it was via the movie biz.

Hmm... aren't they in Palm Springs? Not much film business there. Pretty much 100% leisure-- rich people playing golf.

[Ezee E]

Started Season 3. I have a feeling this will be the best one. Plenty of opportunities going on for each character now. Awesome.

[Benny Profane]

I'm about halfway through season 3, and there's definitely no dropoff in quality. I guess if I had one complaint it's that they're making Sally a main character, and I don't know if it's the acting or the lisp but she really bothers me. She belongs on the Brady Bunch. It was better when the kids were seen and not heard from.

[[ETM]]

It was better when the kids were seen and not heard from.

Well, kids tend to grow up. It would have been stupid not making the children a part of the story.

[Silencio]

I'm about halfway through season 3, and there's definitely no dropoff in quality. I guess if I had one complaint it's that they're making Sally a main character, and I don't know if it's the acting or the lisp but she really bothers me. She belongs on the Brady Bunch. It was better when the kids were seen and not heard from.Really? I think she's a phenomenal young actress.

[Mara]

I'm about halfway through season 3, and there's definitely no dropoff in quality. I guess if I had one complaint it's that they're making Sally a main character, and I don't know if it's the acting or the lisp but she really bothers me. She belongs on the Brady Bunch. It was better when the kids were seen and not heard from.

I have various feelings on this.

A great deal of the show, for me, seems to feel like its about children understanding their parents. I feel like most of the people on the show (writers, directors, actors, etc.) are portraying their parents' generation and commenting on it. Why was my mother so unhappy? Why did my parents split up / stay together? Why did my father cheat / drink / lie to me?

I kind of like Sally as an actress, and I like her to the most when she's the angriest (decapitating dolls, etc.) But she did seem to be almost intrusive in the storylines for awhile in the first half of the season, while the younger son (whose name I really can't even recall) barely gets noticed. I only specifically remember him being present in one scene of the third season.

So, I like being reminded that the kids are the ones who are going to end up in therapy over all this, but they need to be careful about the balance.

[Adam]

I would say they're setting Sally up for her teen years in the late sixties more than anything

[Winston*]

But she did seem to be almost intrusive in the storylines for awhile in the first half of the season, while the younger son (whose name I really can't even recall) barely gets noticed. I only specifically remember him being present in one scene of the third season.

I found this strange too.. I actually had to google to make sure I wasn't misremembering that they had a son.

[Mara]

I found this strange too.. I actually had to google to make sure I wasn't misremembering that they had a son.

Two, by season 3...

[[ETM]]

That's interesting, since Bobby keeps being actively involved in the plots, even if it's only by doing something wrong and having his parents yell at him. It's... bizarre that you'd overlook him.

[Winston*]

Two, by season 3...

I knew about the baby. Children don't have gender until they're 3 years old, little known fact.

[Mara]

;254735']That's interesting, since Bobby keeps being actively involved in the plots, even if it's only by doing something wrong and having his parents yell at him. It's... bizarre that you'd overlook him.

BOBBY. Yes, of course, Bobby. To me it feels like he's rarely proactive the way that Sally is... he's more likely to react to a situation. For instance, if you were ask me if he was a talented young actor, I wouldn't know how to answer.

And I think Winston* needs to meet more babies. :lol: They are more gender-specific than you would think.

[Benny Profane]

I would say they're setting Sally up for her teen years in the late sixties more than anything

Highly doubt the series is around 6 years from now.

[Benny Profane]

;254625']Well, kids tend to grow up. It would have been stupid not making the children a part of the story.


I don't see why it would be stupid. They could have had the same amount of screen time as before, even if they're older. Sally's segments just grind the story to a halt and take you out of the flow. It feels like she has a powerful agent who demanded she be more of a presence so the writers were forced to work her in.

[[ETM]]

Highly doubt the series is around 6 years from now.

They don't follow the story in real time. They can easily skip some time between seasons, and I think they have already.

[[ETM]]

I don't see why it would be stupid. They could have had the same amount of screen time as before, even if they're older. Sally's segments just grind the story to a halt and take you out of the flow. It feels like she has a powerful agent who demanded she be more of a presence so the writers were forced to work her in.

Screen time doing what? Sally has just reached the point where she's starting to understand a bit of what's going on around her, and starts questioning it. The breakdown of the seemingly "perfect" family of Don Draper is one of the cornerstones of the show, and ignoring the children as they're growing up would be... well yeah - stupid. Too bad if you feel that way about it, as it doesn't "take me out of the flow" at all.

[Benny Profane]

;254820']They don't follow the story in real time. They can easily skip some time between seasons, and I think they have already.

Yeah, but you'd still have to wait 6 years for her to get to be a teenager. I didn't say seasons, I said years.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, I like the daughter story. If anything, it gives an idea of how she'll become later on even if we don't see it. I just love that the parents seem almost annoyed that they have the kids around, especially the Mother.

Finished Disc 2 of this. I think it's my favorite season so far.

[ThePlashyBubbler]

I'm still torn between whether season 2 or 3 is my favorite. I felt like two was incredibly solid all the way through. Three had a few more ups and downs, but that seemed to come more from the writers experimenting more which I really liked. The final three episodes of season three might be my favorite run in the series, as each seems like a break from formula in a different way.

[Ezee E]

The Rome episode, the eclipse scene. Mad Men is really getting some neat directorial style in its episodes now, and just getting better as the season goes along.

[Benny Profane]

Matt Weiner wants show to end in 2012 after sixth season. (http://www.avclub.com/articles/matthew-weiner-wants-mad-men-to-end-in-2012,40238/)

[Mara]

...that may not be a bad idea. I like it when shows have a deadline. I think it improves the writing by giving it appropriate time to arc.

[[ETM]]

AMC is apparently doing damage control now. (http://lat.ms/aq9FTI)

[Mara]

July 25th, my little angels.

[ledfloyd]

i've decided to dive into this show. 2 discs arriving from netflix today.

[ledfloyd]

i've decided to dive into this show. 2 discs arriving from netflix today.
and i'm caught up. possibly the best show currently on television? it has a few rocky points but overall i'm very impressed and can't wait until july.

[Mara]

That was fast.

[ledfloyd]

That was fast.
i'm prone to binging.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Just caught up with the whole thing, great finale, can't see where they take it.

[Mara]

Last night I dreamed that Betty and Henry had gotten married, and that she found out he had a pregnant-blonde-lady fetish and had lost all interest in her sexually since she had her kid. She kept walking in on him rubbing the bellies of random preggo women.

I think this would be an amusing plot development.

[[ETM]]

Heh, rad.
http://shirtoid.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/pete-campbell-homeboy.jpg

[[ETM]]

Season 4 poster.
http://imgur.com/3vc4Q.jpg

[dreamdead]

Almost done with Season 3; starting the 9th episode soon. Surprised at how little Peggy has had thus far, and Betty is still the most undesirable mother, but Pete is finally getting beaten down enough that his humanity shows through, and his plea to his wife that she not leave him alone anymore hints at a new maturity (or at least awareness of his own childishness). Good stuff, even if no episode this season thus far has hit one out of the ballpark yet.

[amberlita]

Good stuff, even if no episode this season thus far has hit one out of the ballpark yet.

I agree. There were some great moments in Season 3, like the lawnmower, Don and Betty in Italy, and some stuff with Sal in the episode you are about to watch. But once you get to Episode 11 it's a string of three really killer episodes. The Gypsy and the Hobo left me breathless.

[Lucky]

Don and Betty in Italy is probably my favorite episode of the series. This is a difficult show to classify by episodes, though.

[[ETM]]

This is a difficult show to classify by episodes, though.

This.

I have thoroughly enjoyed season 3 as a whole, probably more than the previous seasons, even though they may have had outstanding single episodes.

[[ETM]]

A bunch of new promo shots... love the b/w cast images:
http://imgur.com/uFFpr.jpg
http://imgur.com/7iW6o.jpg
http://imgur.com/z0UOa.jpg
http://imgur.com/1GcZS.jpg
http://imgur.com/wZL62.jpg
http://imgur.com/4hg8p.jpg
http://imgur.com/tdrUX.jpg
http://imgur.com/RTlXv.jpg
http://imgur.com/hNqHs.jpg
http://imgur.com/kuJ1R.jpg
http://imgur.com/WlbUW.jpg
http://imgur.com/K0uLt.jpg
http://imgur.com/0Hexj.jpg
http://imgur.com/xP7ny.jpg
http://imgur.com/gfGpF.jpg
http://imgur.com/2Samx.jpg
http://imgur.com/XY2TN.jpg

(spoilered just for size)

[Mara]

Okay, I've been debating linking this. I know most of you guys aren't too interested in fashion, but these guys (http://projectrungay.blogspot.com/search/label/Mad%20Men?max-results=18) are doing an amazing project where they critique the clothes the individual characters wear not as clothing, but as costumes-- what does this say about the character, how they are feeling, where they come from? They have an amazing eye for detail (for instance: Joan wears red when she's feeling confident, and purple when she's emotionally vulnerable.) It's a fascinating read.

[Acapelli]

peggy's new hairdo is horrendous

[Ezee E]

peggy's new hairdo is horrendous
I could only hope that one of the guys bashes her for it.

[Mara]

Okay, I've been debating linking this. I know most of you guys aren't too interested in fashion, but these guys (http://projectrungay.blogspot.com/search/label/Mad%20Men?max-results=18) are doing an amazing project where they critique the clothes the individual characters wear not as clothing, but as costumes-- what does this say about the character, how they are feeling, where they come from? They have an amazing eye for detail (for instance: Joan wears red when she's feeling confident, and purple when she's emotionally vulnerable.) It's a fascinating read.

Um... this series just keeps getting better and better. It really is a good read.

[Lucky]

Um... this series just keeps getting better and better. It really is a good read.

I read a few of them, I agree. Very interesting. It's like reading a quality post on here about one of your favorite shows.

[Ezee E]

Begins tonight. Looking forward to it!

[amberlita]

Begins tonight. Looking forward to it!

Me too. I've purposefully avoided reading any reviews of the premiere because I want to avoid spoilers but I could tell the overall tone was positive. Lots of stuff I can't wait to see in regards to where people are at.

Is it wrong that I hope Betty is miserable? While I understand not wanting to stay with Don after all his lies, that she did indeed "build herself a life raft" always irked me. Betty seemed to think she was some kind of marker for empowerment leaving Don when all she did was run into the arms of another husband she doesn't love. Peggy's did it the real way and Don came to her with more respect and admiration than I think he ever had for his wife.

Anyway, I suppose that is her station in life to be a trophy wife, but Peggy could have thought it was her station to be a secretary and now look at her. I want Betty to finally learn her lesson.

[Mara]

I have this... feeling... that Betty and Don will have a sneaky affair.

But I don't doubt she'll be miserable in her new marriage. She's entirely too dependent on needing men to want her.

[Ezee E]

Any DVR watchers know how long it takes for this to show up? I'd rather watch it without commercial interruptions.

[RoadtoPerdition]

Nice setup to the season. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

[ledfloyd]

excellent start. for what it's worth there were only two 90 second commercial breaks.

[Benny Profane]

Don seems to be getting more and more unlikeable, while still remaining as charismatic as ever. Loved the first episode and the little showdown between Don and Henry.

[Adam]

pcDiB4y9oOE

[[ETM]]

Oh hell yes. All of it.

And wasn't that Anna Camp? It's not on her IMDB page.

[Mara]

;275724']Oh hell yes. All of it.

And wasn't that Anna Camp? It's not on her IMDB page.

I'm sure it was. They were probably keeping it hush-hush-- they're so secretive.

Just watched it, very impressed. It feels like we're just setting up the season so far, so nothing much happened, but lots of intriguing hints. Plenty of shifting dynamics, and some not shifting at all-- Betty is still a miserable bitch, especially when she needs to be a mother. She still only seems happy when actively getting sex. She changed everything, but nothing has changed.

Don-- what an unhappy, self-hating, gorgeous man. Did anyone else think he could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he'd discovered prostitutes years ago? Still, this is the best father we've seen him being so far.

Peggy seems very self-assured and confident, but as usual her risk-taking rarely pays off. Curious to see if she still has terrible taste in men. Her hair looks better in play than it did in those production stills.

Joan has an office! But we don't know anything else yet.

[Mara]

Okay, I've digested and I want MORE NOW PLEASE.

[[ETM]]

Okay, I've digested and I want MORE NOW PLEASE.

As someone pointed out, the prostitute saying "Stop telling me what to do! I know what you want." is like Weiner addressing the audience. I like that image.:lol:

[amberlita]

Nice av, Mara. When we got our first slick tour of their new digs, I had a Firefly moment. I audibled a "Shiny!" at the television.

So this new company should really be called "Draper, et al."

[Mara]

Nice av, Mara. When we got our first slick tour of their new digs, I had a Firefly moment. I audibled a "Shiny!" at the television.


I'm hoping someone gets me a clearer reduction in the AV thread. But it's a nice moment. They did a good job of showing an office that looks like they've "made it" (in comparison to the hotel room last year) while still giving a sense of unease with the clients and prospects.

[Mara]

My avatar is fixed!

By the way, Judy's friend is, I think, very much supposed to remind us of a young Betty. (An actress instead of model, but still.) For one thing, she's the only other of Don's women to be blonde.

Anyone else surprised he didn't go back to the teacher once he was single?

[amberlita]

My avatar is fixed!

By the way, Judy's friend is, I think, very much supposed to remind us of a young Betty. (An actress instead of model, but still.) For one thing, she's the only other of Don's women to be blonde.

Anyone else surprised he didn't go back to the teacher once he was single?

I wondered that too. Possibly he doesn't want to be reminded of anything from that time in his life. But really I think it's because Don's very depressed. I think it says quite a bit that a man with countless extramarital affairs is now fully on the market and can't find the urge to get back in the saddle so he hires hookers or his friends force blind dates on him. I just don't think he cares right now.

[Derek]

I wondered that too. Possibly he doesn't want to be reminded of anything from that time in his life. But really I think it's because Don's very depressed. I think it says quite a bit that a man with countless extramarital affairs is now fully on the market and can't find the urge to get back in the saddle so he hires hookers or his friends force blind dates on him. I just don't think he cares right now.

Hookers who slap him at his request no less. Yeah, he doesn't seem too ready for anything stable at this point.

[Mara]

It would be interesting if newly-single Don started an affair with a married woman. Change seats at the table, if you will.

Could be Trudy. Or Jane.

Or Rachel Meneken. That would be very interesting.

[amberlita]

I've got my fingers crossed for Joan.

[Mara]

I like Joan too much to sic Don on her! :lol:

[[ETM]]

Alan Sepinwall of Hitfix did a great interview (http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/interview-mad-men-creator-matthew-weiner-talks-season-four) with Matthew Wiener on Season 4. His review (http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/mad-men-public-relations-ho-ho-ho) of the episode is also pretty great, as always.

I'm surprised at the number of meh or negative comments under various reviews. So many people still don't get what the show is, yet keep watching and bitching. It's amazing.

[amberlita]

I like Joan too much to sic Don on her! :lol:

Haha! This is a fantastic point. However, as Don said this last episode, "Everybody thinks this is temporary". It'd be only for the purpose of some short-lived sexual intrigue and to see the two most attractive people on this show make sparks with each other. I think Joan could pull Don out of his funk and not get lost in his manipulations, cutting him off when she sees him start to twist her as much as he is twisted.

That's an interesting hypothetical. Who is worse, Don, or her rapist husband? :P

[Mara]

Well, I would say I was fascinated by the show before for about two years before I actively started to like it. There's an element of slow burn.

[[ETM]]

Well, I would say I was fascinated by the show before for about two years before I actively started to like it. There's an element of slow burn.

I know, I got through season 1 on style alone.

[RoadtoPerdition]

I didn't really get into the show until that episode in the first season when Pete confronted Don in his office about his past. Then that kind of went nowhere and the show went back into slow burn mode for the rest of the season.

[Ezee E]

Joan shows plenty of power in the office, but as other people have pointed out, she sort of loses that power in the house. I'd say the same would probably happen with Don, unless Joan uses that against him in the office?

[amberlita]

Just rewatched the episode and noticed at the end that Don tells the WSJ guy "by the end of the year we'd taken over three floors of the Time-Life building". Heh.

[Mara]

Hey, I didn't notice that Sally outgrew her lisp!

http://bodyodd.msnbc.msn.com/

It was fading anyway, but the actress worked with a speech therapist to shake it completely.

[Mara]

Just rewatched this clip.

R2bLNkCqpuY

Have I mentioned that I love Harry? Because I love Harry.

[RoadtoPerdition]

Hey, I didn't notice that Sally outgrew her lisp!

http://bodyodd.msnbc.msn.com/

It was fading anyway, but the actress worked with a speech therapist to shake it completely.

I love how the speech specialist they interviewed and quoted used the term "vis-Ã*-vis" when discussing lisps.

[Mara]

Okay, this (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1298937/Mad-Mens-Christina-Hendricks-leaves-news-anchor-speechless-bathtime-story.html) is kind of fun. The male interviewer is reduced to jibberish after Christina Hendricks innocently mentions she was drawing a bath when she found out about her Emmy nod.

[Ezee E]

Had to check with an inflation calculator to see if that was a good bonus or not. Doesn't pertain to what that bonus actually means, but still had to know.

About $672.00. Expensive prostitute? Although no bonus at all, as it makes her feel like every other woman she's heard about with Don Draper. And now she's one of them. Nothing special at all. Quite a sad way to end that episode.

[Mara]

Well, it looks like Peggy has learned more from Don than we thought-- she figured out that if you hide your past, it never happened. You just have to be comfortable lying to everyone about everything forever.

That guy from Lucky Strikes is the closest thing this show has to a villain. They make him so hateful.

The return of Glenn and Freddy! Glenn is growing into a first-rate creeper. Not surprising at all. Poor Peggy's disillusionment with Freddy was very well-played.

And every damn thing Harry does cracks me up. Snitching cookies, covering his answers on the psychological test, whispering "Sorry sorry sorry" as he sits on Roger's lap... awesome.

Joan dancing the conga was so sexy my eyeballs melted.