Juno

[Briare]

If you have a mild interest in the movie and have some free time, you can see the film for free if you live near one of these theatres:

http://rsvp.foxsearchlight.com/RSVPSystem/screenings.php?MoviesId=55

[Kurosawa Fan]

That link isn't working.

[Briare]

Fixed it.

[origami_mustache]

Seeing it at school Tuesday. Apparently the writer will be there for a Q&A as well.

[number8]

I guess it's okay for free.

[eternity]

Seeing it at school Tuesday. Apparently the writer will be there for a Q&A as well.She's hot.

http://www.mndaily.com/daily/2006/01/19/p2candyF.jpg

I'm going to see it for free on Wednesday. I can't wait.

[NickGlass]

Seeing it at school Tuesday. Apparently the writer will be there for a Q&A as well.

Make sure you're within spitting distance.


I guess it's okay for free.

Er, I don't know about that. I saw it for free and I didn't feel any less irritated by it.

[origami_mustache]

Make sure you're within spitting distance.


hahaha...noted

[origami_mustache]

She's hot.

http://www.mndaily.com/daily/2006/01/19/p2candyF.jpg

I'm going to see it for free on Wednesday. I can't wait.

She looks like a suicide girl haha.

[Ezee E]

She looks like a suicide girl haha.
Yeah, take a look at any of her pictures.

I read her memoir. It's pretty funny, so I'm expecting the same from Juno, despite everyone not liking it here so far.

[Rowland]

Cool, thanks. I'll be there on Thursday. I look forward to (hopefully) being the dissenting voice amidst all of the hipster negativity around here.

[Derek]

Cool, thanks. I'll be there on Thursday. I look forward to (hopefully) being the dissenting voice amidst all of the hipster negativity around here.

:rolleyes:

Thanks, Armond.

[Rowland]

:rolleyes:

Thanks, Armond.I'm just kidding dude, relax. I didn't think anyone took the term "hipster" seriously anymore.

That said, I still hope I like the movie. I'm confident that I will.

[Watashi]

Hmm.... Stephanie Zacharek really praised this and she hated Little Miss Sunshine (which Juno is getting comparisons to). Maybe there is hope afterall?

[Sycophant]

If I remember to, I'll swing by the local screening tonight. As one who really didn't like Thank You For Smoking, I've got some trepidation. However, I didn't hate Little Miss Sunshine as much as everyone else seemed to think I should, though I'm not sure how apt the comparison really is. I'll probably see it even if I end up paying for it. I think I'm going to be able to go in without a terrible amount of bias.

[Rowland]

I would no longer go out of my way to defend it, but I liked LMS just fine. It was broad, sure, but it had a strong ensemble, some clever moments, and an endearing message. I didn't like TYFS so much though.

[Derek]

I'm just kidding dude, relax. I didn't think anyone took the term "hipster" seriously anymore.

That said, I still hope I like the movie. I'm confident that I will.

Sometimes it's hard to tell, especially coming from an Armond fan. ;) That said, the film all but glorifies it's hipster protagonist, so it should be a film that hipsters themselves embrace. Either way, I'm neither pro- nor anti-hipster, just anti-Ellen Page.


If I remember to, I'll swing by the local screening tonight. As one who really didn't like Thank You For Smoking, I've got some trepidation. However, I didn't hate Little Miss Sunshine as much as everyone else seemed to think I should, though I'm not sure how apt the comparison really is. I'll probably see it even if I end up paying for it. I think I'm going to be able to go in without a terrible amount of bias.

I don't really think this has too much in common with LMS aside from the quirky tone and some of the familial relations. I'd actually say that one's opinion of Thank You For Smoking, which I really disliked, is a better gauge for whether or not you'll like Juno. I just don't think Reitman is a particularly good director, though the script is certainly a large part of the problem.

[Boner M]

Hmm.... Stephanie Zacharek really praised this and she hated Little Miss Sunshine (which Juno is getting comparisons to). Maybe there is hope afterall?
Zacharek loved LMS.

[Watashi]

Zacharek loved LMS.

I don't have a link to her full review, but her tomatometer blurb states this:

"This is an indie crowd pleaser that's much more enjoyable -- in other words, not nearly as horrifying -- as Little Miss Sunshine."

[Rowland]

Maybe she was referring to the beauty pageant climax of LMS. This is from her review for the movie:

"The picture's climax, in which Olive finally gets to perform the talent routine her grandpa has taught her, is a smart, funny twist on the more horrific qualities of child beauty pageants, in which kids are ghoulishly dolled up to be mini sex objects."

Also, in her Juno review, she refers to TYFS as a "limp satire." Agreed.

[eternity]

As someone who LOVED Thank You for Smoking and cleverly written teen films with lots of snarky dialogue, I am so fucking hyped, you wouldn't believe.

[Boner M]

Prepare yourself for the Juno generation.
:sad:

[Ezee E]

As someone who LOVED Thank You for Smoking and cleverly written teen films with lots of snarky dialogue, I am so fucking hyped, you wouldn't believe.
Thank you.

I would say that the Teen genre has been pretty good, but the only movie I can think of is Superbad, which is good, but nothing of a rebirth of a genre just yet.

[NickGlass]

I don't like Little Miss Sunshine or Thank You For Smoking, but they each have different problems than Juno.

[eternity]

Thank you.

I would say that the Teen genre has been pretty good, but the only movie I can think of is Superbad, which is good, but nothing of a rebirth of a genre just yet.It's usually more bad than good, but some films, especially as of late, have hit it out of the park. See: Superbad, Brick (in a very unconventional way).

[Sycophant]

Well, I swung by my theater tonight half an hour before the free screening. The woman at the booth informed me that if I'd wanted to get in, I should have bee there at least an hour earlier. People began showing up at 11 in the freaking morning.

Good for them. They apparently want to see it (for free) a lot more than I do.

[number8]

That's generally a good idea for any free screening. Before I had my delicious press credentials, I used to go to those screenings 2-3 hours early. And I'd be like the 15th-30th person in line.

[Duncan]

She's hot.

http://www.mndaily.com/daily/2006/01/19/p2candyF.jpg

I'm going to see it for free on Wednesday. I can't wait.

So, apparently, she used to be a stripper. For some reason that makes me want to see the movie a lot more.

[Duncan]

So, apparently, she used to be a stripper. For some reason that makes me want to see the movie a lot more.

Then again, things like this Reverse Shot review (http://www.reverseshot.com/article/juno)make me want to avoid it like the plague.

[Doclop]

I liked Juno. I think the impending culture surrounding it has the potential for mass-annoyance and insincerity, but I don't want to blame the film, which I thought was genuinely sweet (especially when it has to do with the whole pregnancy shindig).

[origami_mustache]

http://www.newemotion.it/img/prodotti/entertainment/entertainment336g_1.jpg


Juno is about Juno MacGuff (Ellen Page), an offbeat yet intelligent sixteen year old girl who is faced with an unplanned pregnancy after having sex with her best friend Paulie Bleeker(Michael Cera). Writer, Diablo Cody tackles a controversial subject, without offering much to say about teenage pregnancy, adoption, or abortion. Instead Cody focuses on the hip and witty dialogue, that seems more forced and phony than anything (who talks like this?). I actually can only recall genuinely laughing at one line in reference to adoption: "You should go to China, they're giving them [babies] away like free Ipods. They shoot them out of t-shirt guns at stadiums." Cera fortunately provides comedy through his ability to transform an innocuous line of dialogue into an awkward moment of hilarity. Cody really doesn't concentrate on the two major characters themselves as much as she should either. All we really know or learn about Bleaker is that he is an awkward teenage guy who is part of the cross country team and was formerly in a band with Juno. Although Juno gets most of the screen time, she is pretty one, perhaps two dimensional herself.

After the screening there was a Q&A with director Jason Reitman and writer "Diablo Cody" if that is her real name? (It isn't). Cody continued to lose credibility with me when confronted about her past working as a stripper. Not that I have anything against that, but her reasoning was complete bullshit. She said that she was "bored and since she grew up in a conventional small town environment, needed to add excitement for writing inspiration." She was apparently discovered through the world of blogging. She also mentioned that she "hates the word "bog" due to the trendy association of it by nature, although her entire script contained an abundance of such hip and snarky word usage. I was especially annoyed by Cera's multiple uses of the word "wizard." It's obvious that Juno, is a semi autobiographical adolescent representation of the author herself, although I'm sure Cody wasn't half as "cool" as she is portrayed. An audience member brought up a good plot-hole point during the Q&A. "Juno is conveyed as intelligent and very with it, so why wouldn't she have used birth control?"

Directing and production design help to cover some of the flaws in the script, but only barely. Bleeker's room reflects his immaturity and ineptness to raise a child as we see his outer space wallpaper, toy robots, and racecar bed. He is also a slacker, as we see him going to cross country practice late on several occasions, or running behind the rest of the pack. Later in the film after he learns of Juno's true affection for him, we see him win a race, actually breaking the school record, and then continuing to run up stairs upon completion of the race as if not even winded. The Loring's (the adoptive parents played by Jason Bateman and Jennifer Garner) home is impeccably clean and yuppi. There is a great little montage of them adjusting small details in preparation for their audition with Juno and her father. Juno's room is covered in graphic art, and a hamburger shaped telephone. Unfortunately, the magic of subtltey is ruined when Juno calls unnecessarily attention to the phone. Speaking of unnecessary, the voice over narration is sporadic throughout and offers no insight.

The film does manage to offer a few redeeming termite moments such as the scene where the step-mom defends her step-daughter after a condescending comment from a radiologist. I also thought the Japanese comic book about a pregnant teenage superhero was cute, and the reversal of expectation with the roles of Bateman and Garner turned out to be a pleasant surprise. Bateman's character is perhaps the most interesting in the film. Formerly in a band, he has sacrificed his art and his freedom for his marriage with a controlling wife, and career as a commercial jingle composer. One subtle touch I enjoyed was when Garner is painting the babies room, while wearing/ruining an Alice and Chains t-shirt, that obviously belongs to Bateman. I also enjoyed the soundtrack as I am a fan of The Moldy Peaches, Kimya Dawson, and Belle and Sebastian, however I felt the music didn't always accommodate the scene properly. For instance one of my favorite songs, "Piazza, New York Catcher's" lyrics just have no place in the film. Other than matching the folky acoustic tone setup from the previous songs, it just doesn't fit. At least Reitman's Thank You For Smoking had something worth while to say, Juno however is mostly just throw away, but will probably be lauded by the general public. I just hope it doesn't go as far as to being a dark horse original screenplay nominee.

[origami_mustache]

Hmm.... Stephanie Zacharek really praised this and she hated Little Miss Sunshine (which Juno is getting comparisons to). Maybe there is hope afterall?

I thought Little Miss Sunshine and Thank You For Smoking were both better than Juno, for whatever that's worth.

[number8]

My review. (http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/juno/review/)

[Ezee E]

My review. (http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/juno/review/)
Factual error: Juno premiered at Telluride; not Sundance.

[eternity]

I'll write a formal review tomorrow, but you can check out the Top Ten thread here and the Pecan Pie thread for a little sneak peek of how much I am going to blow my load all over this movie.

[Briare]

The dialogue I keep hearing is so stupid unbelievable is anything but. Other than a few cringing moments- particular from the convenience store clerk in the trailer, absent from all the rest of the film] is not something I wouldn't have heard from certain people in high school and these people are the Juno's of the world. Awkward, not always unattractive and just plain different. I was a little surprised at the film [I hated Little Miss Sunshine and was lukewarm on Thank You for Smoking, for reference] and how much I enjoyed it. There's no point in scrambling to figure out different beefs with the movie, its not perfect but its perfectly acceptable as entertainment and it succeeds if only because it injects a lot of sadness for Juno. Not because she's pregnant, but because she is so wonderful and a lot of people in her world fail to recognize this. Juno's quirks aren't forced like many of the characteristics in LMS were, she's a very natural character and the performance by Page is charismatic. Michael Cera scenes with her are rightly awkward if only because the dumbstruck Cera doesn't think a remotely attractive girl like her could ever like a weirdo like him- and vice versa. The only complaint here is for Jennifer Garner's over written role, which had it been written more like Bateman's would've certainly improved the small portion of the movie they are in. Overall, excellent. The best surprise of the year for me. Just sit back and start to ignore some of the quirkier lines of dialogue if its not your thing, and you should be fine.

[***1/2]

[number8]

Factual error: Juno premiered at Telluride; not Sundance.

I actually meant to write Toronto. Thanks for the catch though.

[origami_mustache]

My review. (http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/juno/review/)

Spot on...my sentiments exactly.

[number8]

You're right about the hamburger phone too. At first I saw that and I thought, "Oh, that's kind of neato. Unless they're going to start mentioning how quirky her hamburger phone is to be funny."

Sure enough, she did, in the most banal way possible.

[origami_mustache]

You're right about the hamburger phone too. At first I saw that and I thought, "Oh, that's kind of neato. Unless they're going to start mentioning how quirky her hamburger phone is to be funny."

Sure enough, she did, in the most banal way possible.


haha yeah, the film was just begging to call attention to it's quirky hipness...and the namedropping game is always annoying: Sonic Youth, The Stooges, Suspiria...yada yada yada....ugh.

[Briare]

I think that Juno is a character who is very insecure about herself and somehow feels the need to surround herself with funny, quirky things so she can always get a laugh. The burger phone being one of these items. If the crappy burger phone hadn't presented itself for a laugh with the person shes speaking to on it (who's voice we never hear) I doubt it would've been brought up. She craves the laughter, she craves attention. Her comments about being called selfless for keeping the baby may be sarcastic but its times like these that they show another side of her- she wants a different kind of attention than she gets at home. She wants acceptance, not affection. This is the same thing that Bleeker and her have in common; Bleeker is a "star athlete" yet hes not popular, hes not well liked. He, much like Juno is a social castaway- forgotten about in a sea of prettier, more popular students. Shes an insecure youth, consumed with what she thinks will make her popular- the lingo, the clothing, the retro music and yes, she is the kind of girl who would name drop a band to test the waters with somebody to see if she liked you.

[eternity]

Bleaker also had a hamburger phone. It was clearly an inside joke between her friend group, and thus they all had one.

Like I said, I'll write a formal review addressing everything, but in a non-traditional sense that will probably be argued, it is the most realistic teen film I have ever seen.

[Ezee E]

I liked it a lot. The dialog problems discussed only seemed annoying in its beginning scene with Rainn Wilson. Ellen Page and the best friend are the only others that get as quirky of dialog, and they manage to pull it off. Sure, nobody would say those things, but, the same goes for movies like Closer and The Shape of Things. It's up to the actors to make it happen.

But I like that the movie remained positive and happy the whole way through. It's pretty refreshing, because it wasn't "too cute" as everyone had flaws, and there are sad moments, but it only made me like the characters more then anything. It's rare to see that in a comedy where it's so easy to be narcissitic.

Jennifer Garner is the highlight of the movie for me, her acting is the most subtle, but most heartwrenching. Her scene at the mall is great, and I imagine that it was incredibly tough to pull off.

I could rave about a scene for each character now that I think about it.

And... VERN SCHILLINGER! He's been in just about every movie this year it seems. And I ain't complaining.

[number8]

Sure, nobody would say those things, but, the same goes for movies like Closer and The Shape of Things. It's up to the actors to make it happen.

You're right.

But they didn't. :P

[eternity]

I liked it a lot. The dialog problems discussed only seemed annoying in its beginning scene with Rainn Wilson. Ellen Page and the best friend are the only others that get as quirky of dialog, and they manage to pull it off. Sure, nobody would say those things, but, the same goes for movies like Closer and The Shape of Things. It's up to the actors to make it happen.

But I like that the movie remained positive and happy the whole way through. It's pretty refreshing, because it wasn't "too cute" as everyone had flaws, and there are sad moments, but it only made me like the characters more then anything. It's rare to see that in a comedy where it's so easy to be narcissitic.

Jennifer Garner is the highlight of the movie for me, her acting is the most subtle, but most heartwrenching. Her scene at the mall is great, and I imagine that it was incredibly tough to pull off.

I could rave about a scene for each character now that I think about it.

And... VERN SCHILLINGER! He's been in just about every movie this year it seems. And I ain't complaining.
Except they do talk like that. Page is the only one who has dialogue (other than Wilson) that people question it's authenticity. I know people who talk like her. Hell, I think Diablo Cody has been stalking me, because I've said a lot of Juno's quotes at least once I'm sure. Paulie had the same Michael Cera quirk as AD or Superbad, and that character exists too. Every character is more grounded than people give them credit for, and it is definitely the most diverse and real character set I've seen in a comedy all year.

The movie has a very real tone to it. The responses to the situations are generally funny, as Juno's remarks and all the character's mannerisms and responses to situations are what make the film funny. The characters all react the way their personalities and moral compasses allow them to, nothing is up to question. Juno and her family react to her pregnancy the way their characters truly would. Paulie reacted to being a father the way he really would. The adoptive parents acted the way they would, she was scared, he was thoroughly pissed. They did everything exactly the way they truly would if they were real people, and it worked. It worked really well.

Jennifer Garner's performance was probably the least of a stretch for any of the actors, imo, but she pulled it off beautifully. The mall scene and the room painting scene defined her character and it really was heartwrenching. Every character had one or two scenes that really defined everything they were about, and her's were the most definitive outside of maybe Juno.

Her getting shitty yellow paint all over the Alice in Chains shirt was what ended their marriage.

THUNDERCATSAREGO/10.

[origami_mustache]

Thunder Cats Are Goooo, might have been the most annoying line of the film.

[number8]

Thunder Cats Are Goooo, might have been the most annoying line of the film.

QFT.

[Ezee E]

Except they do talk like that. Page is the only one who has dialogue (other than Wilson) that people question it's authenticity. I know people who talk like her. Hell, I think Diablo Cody has been stalking me, because I've said a lot of Juno's quotes at least once I'm sure. Paulie had the same Michael Cera quirk as AD or Superbad, and that character exists too. Every character is more grounded than people give them credit for, and it is definitely the most diverse and real character set I've seen in a comedy all year.

The movie has a very real tone to it. The responses to the situations are generally funny, as Juno's remarks and all the character's mannerisms and responses to situations are what make the film funny. The characters all react the way their personalities and moral compasses allow them to, nothing is up to question. Juno and her family react to her pregnancy the way their characters truly would. Paulie reacted to being a father the way he really would. The adoptive parents acted the way they would, she was scared, he was thoroughly pissed. They did everything exactly the way they truly would if they were real people, and it worked. It worked really well.

Jennifer Garner's performance was probably the least of a stretch for any of the actors, imo, but she pulled it off beautifully. The mall scene and the room painting scene defined her character and it really was heartwrenching. Every character had one or two scenes that really defined everything they were about, and her's were the most definitive outside of maybe Juno.

Her getting shitty yellow paint all over the Alice in Chains shirt was what ended their marriage.

THUNDERCATSAREGO/10.
hmm... is there any look in that movie that can verify that? Nice pickup if that's the case.

[eternity]

hmm... is there any look in that movie that can verify that? Nice pickup if that's the case.Well, the whole movie she kept dogging on his love for rock music and he was really getting pissed off, and during that whole scene, which ended up being the last scene before it all finally fell apart, this just seemed logical.

[lovejuice]

after sitting on it for a few days, i design to cut juno some slack and declare it's actually quite good. all credits are due to reitman and cast members.

i really have some trouble with how the whole things come together. and cera's role needs to be much more substantial to make the love angle works.

the scene in which page asks forgiveness from cera reminds me of hitch in which smith, as a male lead, has to ask forgiveness from mendes, a female lead, only because of the demographic audiences being female. the same goes here with switched genders.

lessons can be learned from the marriage between garner and bateman. does the fact that these characters seem oblivious to such lessons signal that perhaps so do the film-makers? and should us, audiences, care?

it's a lot like thank you for smoking. a gloriously satisfying, and very funny film which fails to send the message it might perhaps doesn't intend to do to begin with.

other than that, i really like it, and the soundrack rules in an indy kinda way.

[Watashi]

Ugh.... crap. I want to take Ellen Page and Diablo Cody into a dark room and beat them over and over with an ugly stick. Every time Juno would name-drop or say "hellz yeah", I literally wanted to vomit in my mouth. How the hell did Ebert go head over heels over this movie? So, so annoying.

[Briare]

You decided you were going to hate it the minute you saw the trailer... why did you even bother?

[Watashi]

You decided you were going to hate it the minute you saw the trailer... why did you even bother?

Because of the immense praise by Ebert and all the critics?

[Ezee E]

Ugh.... crap. I want to take Ellen Page and Diablo Cody into a dark room and beat them over and over with an ugly stick. Every time Juno would name-drop or say "hellz yeah", I literally wanted to vomit in my mouth. How the hell did Ebert go head over heels over this movie? So, so annoying.
The trailer didn't show any different, and it was praised for the same reasons. Trust Ary I guess.

[number8]

Trust Ary I guess.

There has never been a wiser advice given to anyone anywhere about anything in the history of everything.

[Ivan Drago]

How's Michael Cera's acting in this?

[baby doll]

How's Michael Cera's acting in this?He plays exactly the same character he did in Arrested Development and Superbad. Your mileage may vary. As for the movie on the whole, I was annoyed by the sit-com dialogue (Juno/Ellen Page and her best friend, Leah/Olivia Thirlby, spout so many pop culture referrences I felt as though I were watching the longest episode of Will and Grace ever), but in addition to that, it's just way too cutesy. I'm not some one who thinks independent cinema should be relegated to the very margins of film distribution, but come on, how 'bout a little edge? It's indicative of the film's commercial crassness that while the film makes a particular point of Juno's favorite band being Iggy Pop and the Stooges, the soundtrack is loaded with indie mope rock.

[Ezee E]

He plays exactly the same character he did in Arrested Development and Superbad. Your mileage may vary. As for the movie on the whole, I was annoyed by the sit-com dialogue (Juno/Ellen Page and her best friend, Leah/Olivia Thirlby, spout so many pop culture referrences I felt as though I were watching the longest episode of Will and Grace ever), but in addition to that, it's just way too cutesy. I'm not some one who thinks independent cinema should be relegated to the very margins of film distribution, but come on, how 'bout a little edge? It's indicative of the film's commercial crassness that while the film makes a particular point of Juno's favorite band being Iggy Pop and the Stooges, the soundtrack is loaded with indie mope rock.
I didn't think there was any mope to the music at all.

[baby doll]

I didn't think there was any mope to the music at all.I make no apologies for liking Belle and Sebastian (I actually own that album), but Iggy and the Stooges they ain't.

[NickGlass]

I make no apologies for liking Belle and Sebastian (I actually own that album), but Iggy and the Stooges they ain't.

Yeah. I adore Belle and Sebastian (and The Moldy Peaches), but they're a far cry from anything Patti Smith has done. Also, I really enjoy "I'm Sticking With You," but it's definitely one of the "cutesiest" Velvet Underground songs. Morvern Callar's usage of the song is so, so much richer.

The again, Juno is more concerned with being sardonic in an adorable way than actually using sharpness to dig deep.

[Boner M]

Nick, I'm sure Juno is as awful as it looks/sounds, but I nontheless propose that this be your new year's resolution: to resist cleverly snarky barbs directed to every allegedly-insightful-but-really-just-precious 'little indie that could'... for the rest of your life.

[Sven]

Nick, I'm sure Juno is as awful as it looks/sounds, but I nontheless propose that this be your new year's resolution: to resist cleverly snarky barbs directed to every allegedly-insightful-but-really-just-precious 'little indie that could'... for the rest of your life.

L. O. L.

Out of rep. :(

[Raiders]

Nick, I'm sure Juno is as awful as it looks/sounds, but I nontheless propose that this be your new year's resolution: to resist cleverly snarky barbs directed to every allegedly-insightful-but-really-just-precious 'little indie that could'... for the rest of your life.

http://bannedforever.ytmnd.com/

[NickGlass]

Nick, I'm sure Juno is as awful as it looks/sounds, but I nontheless propose that this be your new year's resolution: to resist cleverly snarky barbs directed to every allegedly-insightful-but-really-just-precious 'little indie that could'... for the rest of your life.

You make it sound like it's my fault. I'll stop when they stop.

(Ok, ok--I'll try to work on it, but what can I do when every relative/neighbor/family friend/acquaintance at every Christmas party approaches me and recommends me Juno?)

[Boner M]

(Ok, ok--I'll try to work on it, but what can I do when every relative/neighbor/family friend/acquaintance at every Christmas party approaches me and recommends me Juno?)
As atonement for your past sins, you must respond with "I've seen it and it's almost as wizard as Little Miss Sunshine. Which is to say, it's PRETTY WIZARD INDEED!!!"

[Mal]

Ary's review pretty much sums up my problems with the film-
except instead of just finding the film not very funny, I found the characteristics of Juno herself rather sad- especially paired with the results we get with Bateman's character. This could largely be due to Page's tiresome delivery.

[Raiders]

It is a rather cute and innocuous film that doesn't seem good or bad enough to generate the level of attention it is getting. What does perplex me is all the hate on Page. I guess either it is my somewhat ambivalent attitude towards acting in films or my love of Danny Huston that makes me blind to such things, but there was nothing about her performance that seemed to make her any more annoying than the screenplay already did.

[Raiders]

I guess maybe I am secretly a part of the group of people who just don't like unsure, quirky teens as the center of the film, since I notice I give this film the same rating as Bujalski's Mutual Appreciation. The films aren't similar, but I think of the dialogue present in the two and the opposing extremes they represent. Here we have characters never at a loss for words and never use "um" or seem to have to think very long about the witticisms they throw out. In Bujalski's world, we have characters who are far removed from confidence and assurance and whose conversations never really seem to go anywhere. I think the ultimate problem is the majority of us here, and myself included, know this age group better than we do any other, and the problem with these films is they attempt to present a picture of a group of characters that talk exactly like screenwriter conventions. There might be a few people in the world who do speak in these cadences, but when it is the style of an entire film, it can begin to grate very quickly. I think the ultimate problem may not be in the film having an overriding style, as filmmakers as diverse as Robert Bresson had a style that permeated each character, but that the style doesn't seem to further a theme as much as set itself front and center. There are weighty topics thrown around in this film, but afterwards all I could really think about was the self-conscious presentation. It is a shame that in the end Cody made me feel as though she cared as much about name-dropping as she does abortion. I doubt this is true, but when you make your film's characters endless nuggets of pop culture knowledge instead of living, breathing characters, it is difficult to identity them as being part of an actual issue and instead part of a screenwriter's ideal.

[DavidSeven]

Juno > Little Miss Sunshine... for what it's worth

[Ezee E]

Juno in a Bresson world?

That would be wizard.

[Duncan]

Let us agree to never use the word "wizard" again. Ever.


As for me, I think Raiders thoughts are pretty accurate. I went in with low expectations, and left with no passionate response one way or the other. I think it says some admirable things in a kind of annoying way. Perhaps the reason all the name dropping didn't bother me so much is that I didn't feel like I was being sold something, or that Cody was mentioning The Stooges so that I would identify more with the film. I think Cody got the opportunity to write a screenplay, had a decent story to tell, then dressed it with things she really likes. It feels indulgent, but not like a pitch. I don't mind indulgence. I wish more filmmakers were indulgent. In LMS the Sufjan Stevens songs feel like they were chosen because Pitchfork had recently crowned the guy King of Indieland. I suppose it's not that big a difference, but Juno definitely struck a more sincere tone. Then again, "wizard." Shivers.

[Acapelli]

I'll be watching this tonight instead of one of the three Criterions I bought today. To be fair, one of them is Kicking and Screaming.

[Boner M]

I think "honest to blog" is far more of a deterrent for me seeing this than "wizard", even though I likely eventually will.

[Duncan]

I think "honest to blog" is far more of a deterrent for me seeing this than "wizard", even though I likely eventually will.

Oh. Yeah. Jesus that was awful.

[Cult]

I really had to be almost literally dragged into this, but once there, it wasn't as bad as I'd thought. The first 20 minutes are pretty painful, but it eventually hits a fairly funny, harmless groove. Plus, it gets points for not going the "she ends up growing attached to the baby and wanting to keep it" route, like I figured it would.

[Bosco B Thug]

Well bust my balls. Literally. I liked it and I was expecting to very easily dismiss it.

umm spoilers

I'm not surprised many many young people would easily connect with this film. It's about a girl who wants to set apart her own path and approach to things. Juno wants to set herself apart from the thronging masses. We see her walking a straight line through a bustle of teenagers, in the first instance mere mindless high schoolers without a thread of the intelligence and candid sense of humor she claims her own; then the second instance, she's pregnant, going through with it selflessly unlike many other girls, and she can judge the gawkers for being prudish hyprocrites. I hate myself for not hating the film automatically on account of the number of groaners in the film, but there's a consistency in how she surrounds herself with extra-ordinary people who are the ones sprouting Diablo Cody's indulgent wry dialogue and witticisms: people who are unique, sincere, honest, irrepressed by social mores and low expectations (unlike the ultrasound technician), etc.

The Jason Bateman and Jennifer Garner characters add a fascinating weightiness to the film. They single-handedly save what had been an innocuous and occasionally obnoxious indie quirk film. When they enter the picture, we realize the film isn't about Juno's pregnancy but about Juno's standards when it comes to responsibility, commitment, and conviction. Innocuity and being ordinary and like everyone else scares the hell out of her. She shies away at her stepmom's obsession with dogs, and she sees nothing special about Jennifer Garner's character. She falls onto Bateman's character when Michael Cera fails her expectations. The film never makes it clear if we should condemn Bateman as a middle-age crisis louse or the emblem of individuality mixed with dutiful caregiver. Can we be made to identify with Garner's blank and un-extra-ordinary yuppy mother-giver wannabe? She's insecure because she cannot suffer a baby herself, but it's also a problem that she won't suffer too much for it either when Juno's baby is hers - a different story for Bateman. It's a gray area that I feel the film never quite acknowledges. A great existential drama can be made of the Bateman and Garner characters. :D But I was surprised how effective it was here. There's some brilliant character work given these two characters, and it's very effective how Juno bounces off them in need to convince herself there is individuality and uniqueness (the illusion of which is broken when Bateman drops the D-bomb on her) in middle-age caregiving.

I felt the ending sort of dropped the ball, acquitting Garner of all her faults and leaving Bateman to take the bullet. Juno's "bill" is very affecting, but the film seems too complacent in letting Juno completely take sides with parenthood as the be-all end-all of responsibility to others (not that Bateman wasn't being a flake... but who can blame him in noticing all of Garner's ticks and flutters of inadequacy? How can he find happiness in a person who finds all her worth and uniqueness in the need of becoming a mother?) Juicy stuff.

So surprise surprise I found JUNO to be as much about norms of society and how Juno wants to break away from them by investing in the ultimate "miracle" of creation and "newness." If you notice, the one liners are given to the same characters - we don't see Bateman and Garner spouting them. It does have all the faults everyone's mentioning (it indulges itself too much) and I don't quite trust its uber-melancholy soundtrack and visuals that make the film gloss over you at times, but Reitman has a deft touch, giving way for some very graceful moments. But the dialogue really didn't bother me. Juno is Juno, and that's one thing I totally bought, and it's what the film is about.

Hmmm... flaws, annoyances, and all... 7.5/10.

EDIT: Also, major :rolleyes: in the horror geekery. Please, noobs. :P

[Ivan Drago]

Just got back from this. I enjoyed it, although every good scene was followed up by an obnoxious scene. Same goes for the dialogue - at some times it's funny, but at some times it's obnoxious. But I loved Ellen Page's performance in this, as well as that of Jennifer Garner, and even though he didn't have much screen time, Michael Cera showed some signs of being a good dramatic actor.

EDIT: And I loved the final shot. It was so sweet.

[ledfloyd]

this movie is too twee for it's own good.

[dreamdead]

I find myself agreeing with Raiders and others. It's middling fare, though its soundtrack is mighty delicious and will force me to investigate further. Regardless, the dialogue is often one-note because too many of the characters end up with the same voice. Similarly, certain scenes just fall flat, such as Juno's mother critiquing the hospital nurse--it's a scene that just feels out of place in the drama. Even JK Simmons can't save some of the dialogue when he's forced to undermine the drama with comedic one-liners. As a result, the film works best when Cody and Reitman trust in silence and in characters' body language. Some of the small moments are beautifully sweet; the tic tac bit is nice. And the final shot is quite tender.

Good, but little more than that.

[Spinal]

Well, yeah, that was not good. I went in with an open mind and I really wanted to like it, but it's so hard to love the film when it's too busy loving itself. The script is sooooo overwritten, although I think I like the overwrought drama of the last half hour more than the terminally clever comedy of the first hour. A couple of good scenes. A few good lines, but after a while, you just wanna scream, "Enough already! Talk like humans! Not like writers who are trying way too hard!" Fascinating to see which actors were capable of taking on the beastly language and taming it.

[origami_mustache]

Well, yeah, that was not good. I went in with an open mind and I really wanted to like it, but it's so hard to love the film when it's too busy loving itself. The script is sooooo overwritten, although I think I like the overwrought drama of the last half hour more than the terminally clever comedy of the first hour. A couple of good scenes. A few good lines, but after a while, you just wanna scream, "Enough already! Talk like humans! Not like writers who are trying way too hard!" Fascinating to see which actors were capable of taking on the beastly language and taming it.

Yeah, I completely agree. It's pretty disgusting how self aware this film was. Ugh Diablo Cody is such a hack. haha

[Spinal]

Thing is, this film could have been a lot worse. The cast actually makes it bearable and kinda fun in places. I did like the lead performance, as well as the AD alums.

[Spinal]

I just remembered that this was Ebert's favorite film of the year.

I don't get that guy sometimes.

[number8]

Ugh Diablo Cody is such a hack. haha

Well, she can't technically be a hack yet.

[Ezee E]

Thing is, from the interviews and blogs from Diablo Cody, she seems to talk like that. Not necessarily throwing out a wizard, but the rest is all there.

The next movie based on her screenplay is a horror movie.

Although most of you may already think she's written one.

[Spinal]

I find it hard to believe that there are 16-year-olds out there referencing Soupy Sales in casual conversation.

[ledfloyd]

I find it hard to believe that there are 16-year-olds out there referencing Soupy Sales in casual conversation.

my brother is 19, i just asked him if he knew who soupy sales was. he said "what, like a sale on soup?"

so yeah, i doubt it. also, 16 year olds would not know "THUNDERCATS ARE GO!" i don't think.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I find it hard to believe that there are 16-year-olds out there referencing Soupy Sales in casual conversation.

I'm 27, and from Michigan, and I barely know Soupy Sales, and most certainly wouldn't drop it as a reference during any type of conversation.

[Duncan]

21. No idea what soupy sales are. fyi.

[Ezee E]

my brother is 19, i just asked him if he knew who soupy sales was. he said "what, like a sale on soup?"

so yeah, i doubt it. also, 16 year olds would not know "THUNDERCATS ARE GO!" i don't think.
Thundercats i could understand.

I do not know what Soupy Sales are.

[Sycophant]

I do not know what Soupy Sales are.Me neither. But it sounds like a disappointing fourth quarter. I can imagine a boardroom full of men in suits bemoaning a season of Soupy Sales.

[number8]

Thing is, from the interviews and blogs from Diablo Cody, she seems to talk like that. Not necessarily throwing out a wizard, but the rest is all there.

http://diablocody.blogspot.com/

She writes dialogue like she writes her blog.

[lovejuice]

Thing is, this film could have been a lot worse. The cast actually makes it bearable and kinda fun in places. I did like the lead performance, as well as the AD alums.

totally agree with acting and writing. then again i enjoy the writing in a so-extreme-that-it's-worth-something sense. i really don't mind a film in which a writer's trying too hard to make her mark. at least i prefer it to one in which the script seems to write itself.

[origami_mustache]

Well, she can't technically be a hack yet.

Thought I'd go with a preemptive strike. She's getting a lot of recognition in Hollywood as she already has at least three projects in the works. She said she wants to direct too...ugh. Not to mention I think anyone who has to create situations to be inspired to write (I.E. Cody becoming a stripper) are trying way too hard and aren't really writers.

[ledfloyd]

http://diablocody.blogspot.com/

She writes dialogue like she writes her blog.
honest to blog.

[Ezee E]

Thought I'd go with a preemptive strike. She's getting a lot of recognition in Hollywood as she already has at least three projects in the works. She said she wants to direct too...ugh. Not to mention I think anyone who has to create situations to be inspired to write (I.E. Cody becoming a stripper) are trying way too hard and aren't really writers.
That's silly. Many people will try out things to erase writer's block and it's okay. She wasn't even intending to be a screenwriter until a reader from her blog asked her to write a script because he liked the blog so much. That could also be why her blog sounds so much like her script.

Although like I said, her interviews still remain consistent with her writing and blog as 8 mentioned. I actually read it.

[Ivan Drago]

it's so hard to love the film when it's too busy loving itself.

How so? I ask because I never saw its self-awareness.

[Horbgorbler]

I'm seventeen and I know who Soupy Sales is, and that his sons were the rhythm section on Iggy Pop's Lust for Life, for what it's worth. Does that make me a "quirky hipster" type? :sad:

But, yeah, I saw a twenty second clip of the movie and cringed about seven times. No way I'll see this, ever.

[Spinal]

How so? I ask because I never saw its self-awareness.

You didn't notice that every character seemed intent on saying things in the most convoluted way possible so as to draw attention to the supposed wit and creativity of the writer? It's like Tarantino disease gone terminal.

[origami_mustache]

That's silly. Many people will try out things to erase writer's block and it's okay. She wasn't even intending to be a screenwriter until a reader from her blog asked her to write a script because he liked the blog so much. That could also be why her blog sounds so much like her script.

Although like I said, her interviews still remain consistent with her writing and blog as 8 mentioned. I actually read it.

That style isn't for me I suppose...I don't like phonies...regardless of whether she talks like that or not, she's still putting on a facade.

[Spinal]

Consistency with your blog or other personal speech quirks is not really something that makes your screenplay any better.

[Ezee E]

Consistency with your blog or other personal speech quirks is not really something that makes your screenplay any better.
It was to address the criticisms that nobody talks like that. Apparently, there is.

[Spinal]

Soupy Sales
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Soupy Sales (born Milton Supman on January 8, 1926) is an American comedian and actor.

Sales got his unusual nickname from his family. His older brothers had been nicknamed "Hambone" and "Chicken Bone"; young Milton was dubbed "Soup Bone," which was later shortened to "Soupy." When he became a disc jockey, he began using the stage name "Soupy Hines." After he became established, it was decided that "Hines" sounded too close to Heinz, a company which makes soups, so Soupy chose the surname "Sales" after comedian Chic Sale.

Biography

Supman was born in Franklinton, North Carolina to Sadie and Irving Supman (1890-?). [1] Irving had emigrated from Hungary in 1895, and was working as a drygoods merchant. Milton had two siblings, Leonard Supman (1918- ) and Inice Supman (1921- ). [2] Milton is a graduate of Huntington High School in Huntington, West Virginia and Marshall College. While attending college, he also performed in nightclubs as a comedian, singer and dancer.

Sales' college career was interrupted by World War II. He joined the United States Navy and served on the USS Randall (APA-224) in the South Pacific. He entertained his shipmates by telling jokes and playing crazy characters over the ship's public address system. One of the characters he created was "White Fang," a large dog that played outrageous practical jokes on the seamen. When the war ended, he returned to Marshall College where he earned a Masters Degree in Journalism. After graduation, he began a career as a script writer and then disc jockey at radio station WHTN in Huntington.

Sales moved to Cincinnati in 1949, where he worked as a morning radio DJ and performed in nightclubs. While in Cincinnati, he began his television career on WKRC TV with Soupy's Soda Shop (TV's first teen dance program) and Club Nothing!, a late-night comedy/variety program.

When the WKRC owners canceled his TV shows, Sales moved to Cleveland, Ohio, where he hosted another radio and TV series (and continued doing his nightclub act). It was in a skit on his late night Comedy/Variety TV series Soupy's On! that he got his first pie in the face. Once again, his show was canceled. Sales moved to Detroit in 1953 and went to work for local ABC affiliate WXYZ-TV. He was briefly signed to Motown Records in the late 1960s, releasing the single "Muck-Arty Park."

[D_Davis]

I'm seventeen and I know who Soupy Sales is, and that his sons were the rhythm section on Iggy Pop's Lust for Life, for what it's worth. Does that make me a "quirky hipster" type? :sad:

But, yeah, I saw a twenty second clip of the movie and cringed about seven times. No way I'll see this, ever.

No. Mr. Sales was a regular on the old Hollywood Squares. I watched this as a youngling.

[D_Davis]

I don't know anything about this movie or this girl, but I am already annoyed.

[Sven]

Horb made the connection. If the girl loves The Stooges so much, no doubt she would listen to Iggy's Lust for Life and thereby know of the Saleses.

[number8]

It's not the fact that she likes it that bothered me. It's the fact that it's one of the many things mentioned in the movie just to prove how cool and retro-chic the film is. It's almost trying really hard to impress the audience. Same goes with the Argento vs HG Lewis debate in the movie. When Juno tries to argue Argento's better, but then admits in the end that Lewis is better, I read it as a thinly veiled remark from Diablo Cody basically going, "You think you're hip because you know Suspiria? Check out what I know enough about to write into a film!"

I'll bet you all the bands/movies mentioned are her actual favorites. The hamburger phone line annoyed me when I watched the film, but it annoyed me even more when I found out that it's Diablo Cody's own phone. That is actually why the movie is a lot like a blog. It's not just the language, it's also how self-obsessed and self-congratulatory it is.

[Spinal]

It's not the fact that she likes it that bothered me. It's the fact that it's one of the many things mentioned in the movie just to prove how cool and retro-chic the film is.

Totally. Juno could be drinking orange juice during the opening credits, but nooooo, it's gotta be Sunny D.

[Watashi]

Sunny D is fucking disgusting anyway. I could never stand the stuff.

[Sycophant]

I really wish I could cleanse my mind of everything I've read and seen of this film. Everything I know about it has me so prepared to hate it, and that's just not fair.

[Rowland]

I really wish I could cleanse my mind of everything I've read and seen of this film. Everything I know about it has me so prepared to hate it, and that's just not fair.Then why see it? If everything you know has convinced you that you'll hate it, then don't bother.

[Sycophant]

Then why see it? If everything you know has convinced you that you'll hate it, then don't bother.Because maybe my gut feelings are wrong? I rather liked Little Miss Sunshine, even though it would appear that comparisons to it have largely been dropped. At any rate, it's one of the year's biggest films, and I generally try to catch those.

I probably just need to wait until everyone stops talking about it for a while so I can distance myself from the hype and the hearsay, so I can give the film a fair shake.

[lovejuice]

I probably just need to wait until everyone stops talking about it for a while so I can distance myself from the hype and the hearsay, so I can give the film a fair shake.

at this point, i think, this seems the best way.

[Ezee E]

I actually saw this a second time with a friend who hadn't seen it, and my opinion doesn't change. If anything, I like it more, because there are a little subtleties going on in the movie. Juno's character is really interesting to watch because people generally look down on her for the same reason people aren't liking her here. "She's different," Beeker's mom says.

The only people that have witty lines are those directly associated with Juno. Her best friend obviously picks it up, and as Ebert states, Juno got those lines from somewhere, and her parents are the same way, only not as energetic about it. Beeker hardly has any in fact, besides his use of wizard.

Now I'm just defending, but it definitely holds up for me.

[Bosco B Thug]

Reverse Shot's blurb on in its "Worst of 2007" list that Rowland posted in the Film Discussion thread:


What, exactly, is Juno about? It’s not about teenage pregnancy—unless that means the subset of pregnant (white) teenage girls whose parents respond to the big news by joking about the potency (or lack thereof) of the father-to-be, or who conveniently give their babies to (rich, white) childless couples. It’s not about abortion, to be sure, despite its “abortion scene”—a parade of stereotypes that hinges on the intervention of a pro-life Asian girl with bad grammar (of course she has bad grammar, silly . . . she’s Asian!). It’s not about motherhood, excepting its contrivance that the arrival of an infant can transform a stiff, cold, deadeningly boring yuppie into a glowing beacon of feminine warmth. And if this movie is supposed to be about love, well, you’d think it would spend more time—or any time, really—developing its ostensible love interest, beyond turning him into a walking visual gag (Track suit. Got it. Yes, I am familiar with The Royal Tenenbaums). No, Juno is really about hype: the packaging of a smug, self-satisfied, faux-edgy, faux-quirky, faux-indie studio film into the cross-over story of the year, complete with its stripper-makes-good, soon-to-be-Oscar-winning screenwriter as star. So what if it makes buckets of money? In ten years, no one will care. You can bet your hamburger phone on it, home skillet.

I think the blurb's being a bit dismissive (Michael Cera's character is carefully molded to be exactly what Juno would want in a guy... though I guess he's still a visual gag...), but the bolded part is definitely my biggest problem with the film. And that abortion clinic scene was definitely bad and sticks out at me like a sore thumb during mental retrospective. And the filmmaking is sort of "faddish" in its indie hipster aesthetic, which might take away from whether it "lasts" in ten years... but then screwball 30s comedies had their own aesthetic right? And some were great and lasting, and then some weren't... Hmm.

But still, ya'll are being awfully hard on it. :P

[Milky Joe]

This thread convinces me that I don't belong on film discussion forums. This movie fucking broke my heart. Ebert is right.

[Ezee E]

Reverse Shot's blurb on in its "Worst of 2007" list that Rowland posted in the Film Discussion thread:


What, exactly, is Juno about? It’s not about teenage pregnancy—unless that means the subset of pregnant (white) teenage girls whose parents respond to the big news by joking about the potency (or lack thereof) of the father-to-be, or who conveniently give their babies to (rich, white) childless couples. It’s not about abortion, to be sure, despite its “abortion scene”—a parade of stereotypes that hinges on the intervention of a pro-life Asian girl with bad grammar (of course she has bad grammar, silly . . . she’s Asian!). It’s not about motherhood, excepting its contrivance that the arrival of an infant can transform a stiff, cold, deadeningly boring yuppie into a glowing beacon of feminine warmth. And if this movie is supposed to be about love, well, you’d think it would spend more time—or any time, really—developing its ostensible love interest, beyond turning him into a walking visual gag (Track suit. Got it. Yes, I am familiar with The Royal Tenenbaums). No, Juno is really about hype: the packaging of a smug, self-satisfied, faux-edgy, faux-quirky, faux-indie studio film into the cross-over story of the year, complete with its stripper-makes-good, soon-to-be-Oscar-winning screenwriter as star. So what if it makes buckets of money? In ten years, no one will care. You can bet your hamburger phone on it, home skillet.

I think the blurb's being a bit dismissive (Michael Cera's character is carefully molded to be exactly what Juno would want in a guy... though I guess he's still a visual gag...), but the bolded part is definitely my biggest problem with the film. And that abortion clinic scene was definitely bad and sticks out at me like a sore thumb during mental retrospective. And the filmmaking is sort of "faddish" in its indie hipster aesthetic, which might take away from whether it "lasts" in ten years... but then screwball 30s comedies had their own aesthetic right? And some were great and lasting, and then some weren't... Hmm.

But still, ya'll are being awfully hard on it. :P

I don't know. That reaction is pretty horribly written. "Of course she has bad grammar... she's Asian!" What? What does that even mean? Inside the clinic, you only saw one patient's face besides Juno that I can think of, so its hardly a stereotype. And that's how I feel about every sentence in that paragraph by the reviewer. At least Ary's criticism have a little more thought put into it. We'll see how about how long the movie lasts, but then again, not many comedies in general last more then five years. I'm pretty sure Diablo will still be around, and that the reviewer will not be.

[number8]

This movie fucking broke my heart.

Well, now, it's not THAT bad, is it?

[origami_mustache]

Well, now, it's not THAT bad, is it?

budum ching

hahaha

[Milky Joe]

hahahahah now THAT'S comedy

[Sven]

hahahahah now THAT'S comedy

It was pretty funny, dude.

[Ezee E]

It was pretty funny, dude.
I even smirked.

[Milky Joe]

it's not funny if you can see it coming.

[Sven]

it's not funny if you can see it coming.

Not true. Why would you ever watch a comedy more than once?

[Milky Joe]

eh:|

point is, Michael Cera is the most extraordinary ordinary person ever.

[Spinal]

it's not funny if you can see it coming.

That's how I felt about Juno.


Hey-o!

[D_Davis]

Not true. Why would you ever watch a comedy more than once?

Nudity?

[origami_mustache]

Good comedies are the most rewatchable films for me. As for Juno, I hope to never see a second of it ever again.

[number8]

That's how I felt about Juno.


Hey-o!


This post is why the word "true" was invented.

[Rowland]

Hmm. Surprisingly boring.

And fuck that soundtrack.

[Yum-Yum]

Smiley Face (Gregg Araki, 2007) ***

It's Anna Faris who should be getting the Oscar buzz, not Ellen Page.

[Rowland]

It's Anna Faris who should be getting the Oscar buzz, not Ellen Page.Anna Faris out-acts many of last year's highly praised performances in Smiley Face. She carries that movie like nobody's business.

[Ezee E]

What is this Smiley Face all about?

[Rowland]

What is this Smiley Face all about?It's a stoner comedy, and a very smart one at that. I know Derek despised it with all his being, but I don't think anybody else around here as seen it, excepting Yum-Yum and I.

[Sven]

It's a stoner comedy, and a very smart one at that. I know Derek despised it with all his being, but I don't think anybody else around here as seen it, excepting Yum-Yum and I.

IHeartGershon also saw it and, I believe, hated it.

[NickGlass]

It's a stoner comedy, and a very smart one at that. I know Derek despised it with all his being, but I don't think anybody else around here as seen it, excepting Yum-Yum and I.

I might catch a late-night screening of it tonight or tomorrow. I'm wondering if I should be stoned when I see it. I'm going to go with "no."

Smart move?

[Derek]

I might catch a late-night screening of it tonight or tomorrow. I'm wondering if I should be stoned when I see it. I'm going to go with "no."

Smart move?

I would say absolutely do not go see this movie stoned. It turns the stoner comedy on its head by making Farris so high that she's often in an extremely heightened state of panic or paranoia. I was miserable enough watching it sober, so I don't think I could've gotten through it high. That said, as much as I hate the film, I don't quite despise it with every fiber of my being. The concept is interesting and Farris does have the hardcore stoner posture/delivery down to a T, but it comes off as borderline stoner torture in its nightmarish vision. Having taken the occasional one-too-many blunt shotguns in my youth (and I'm pretty sure now that even one is too many), it simply made for a wholly unpleasant, though somewhat resonant experience.

[Raiders]

Starting out in the Evening (Wagner): 6.5

That's it? You have to at least give it up for Langella's performance.

[BirdsAteMyFace]

IHeartGershon also saw it and, I believe, hated it.Who, me? If so, indeed (1.5).

[Boner M]

I saw this directly after Cloverfield, where any subsequent viewing is rewarding by default, but objectively speaking I can say this exceeded my dismal expectations by a fair bit. Not much more than pleasant and charming, but I actually liked that the script didn't glorify Juno's hipness as much as I'd expected. As many have noted, the first 10 minutes or so are the worst part, but the film eventually breaks out of it's 'cool cocoon'... slightly. Decent.

[Rowland]

Anger! (http://www.myfiveyearplan.net/archives/214)

Jim Emerson scanning whatever minor backlash there is. (http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/2008/01/jumping_the_snark_the_juno_bac .html)

[Spinal]

My problem with some of the dialogue in "Juno" (particularly in those irritating first 20 minutes or so) isn't that the characters don't sound like real teenagers (or drugstore clerks or parents), it's that the stylized, deliberately over-written dialogue sounds like belabored sitcom writing to me, not clever or funny but strained, as if awaiting a laughtrack.

Repped!

[number8]

How do you rep Emerson?

[Spinal]

Declaring it with enthusiasm doesn't work? :sad:

Mostly, I was doing a minor iosos parody.

[Raiders]

I have a deal with Emerson that all rep for him should be given to me first, and I will pass it on to him.

[Spinal]

I have a deal with Emerson that all rep for him should be given to me first, and I will pass it on to him.

I have the same deal with Roeper, but so far I haven't heard from anyone.

[Raiders]

I have the same deal with Roeper, but so far I haven't heard from anyone.

At least you don't have Maltin. He's cost people negative rep left and right. It got so bad I finally just had to give him to Watashi.

[number8]

I had four green blocks before I made the same deal with Travers.

[Derek]

I have the same deal with Roeper, but so far I haven't heard from anyone.

And your monkey is quite displeased by this fact.

*Caves in and sends rep*

[Kurosawa Fan]

I seem to be one of those rare souls who found this film decent. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but most reactions I've read have been love or hate with this one. I wasn't terribly interested until everyone became so polarized, and then I couldn't resist checking it out to see what all the fuss was about.

If it hadn't been for such abysmal dialogue, the film would have been much better. I liked the story, and how everything played out in the end. I liked the complicated nature of Garner and Bateman's relationship. I was really surprised by Garner's performance. I didn't think she had that in her. I didn't mind Page (this is the first film I've seen her in to my knowledge). I thought her character was annoying because of the dialogue, not due to her performance. When she needed to deliver, she did. Nothing exceptional, but certainly not worthy of derision.

But all that the film had going for it was nearly ruined by that dialogue. I'm really baffled that this is such a critical gem. I'm surprised that more critics haven't focused on how poorly written it was. I did my best to ignore it, and I think that has something to do with my borderline positive reaction to the film, but boy-howdy, that dialogue was as bad as its most vehement detractors have said. Sitcom-ish is a great description.

[dreamdead]

Though I don't feel Juno's important enough of a film to defend, a friend argued that it establishes this sitcom-y feel to it through its very title sequencing, where it blends the drawings with live action. In his eyes, then, it remains logically consistent with this sitcom-y feel, which should circumvent haters of the film for criticizing it because of that same consistency.

I don't quite agree on that front, since it could be such a better film if it were willing to explore angles outside the parameters of a sitcom, but I can understand bits of this argument.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Consistent or not, it doesn't make much of a difference. It was just bad. I think it was Spinal that posted something about the dialogue seeming like it was in need of a laugh track? Spot. On.

[Rowland]

Oh yeah, and was anyone else embarrassed by how the movie stooped to an "Asians speak'a da Engrish" joke with that girl standing outside the abortion clinic? Talk about a cheap and stupid (attempted) laugh. Blech.

[Mysterious Dude]

Oh yeah, and was anyone else embarrassed by how the movie stooped to an "Asians speak'a da Engrish" joke with that girl standing outside the abortion clinic? Talk about a cheap and stupid (attempted) laugh. Blech.
It was especially weird since, aside from that one sentence, she seemed to speak perfect English.

[dreamdead]

I was far more infuriated with the intellectual laziness of the ultrasound woman's scene, which was so one-sided that I inherently started to dislike it at that point. Another reaction of that scene is here (http://themanfromporlock.blogspot.com/2008/01/fringe-characters.html).

Like Antoine, though, the Asian girl confused me 'cos that's the only line where she seemingly has trouble speaking English.

[Rowland]

I was far more infuriated with the intellectual laziness of the ultrasound woman's scene, which was so one-sided that I inherently started to dislike it at that point..
I hated that scene as well. I was totally on the ultrasound woman's side, when I knew I was expected to nod in agreement with Juno's step-mother. Cody's baiting condescension in that exchange was transparent and infuriating. I was so happy to see others who disliked the movie reference it, because I wasn't sure if I was overreacting. And thanks for the link. I'm in complete agreement with the blogger, and especially appreciate his singling out of the Asian doctor in Knocked Up as a point of comparison.

[odditie]

Cody's script was a mess, but the biggest sham of this movie was the fact that there wasn't a Cera/Bateman reunion

[Bosco B Thug]

Jim Emerson scanning whatever minor backlash there is. (http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/2008/01/jumping_the_snark_the_juno_bac .html) That's a good article. Acknowledges the questionable aspects of the film's backbending palatability, but recognizes it as the "fairy tale" heart of the film's character piece.


Oh yeah, and was anyone else embarrassed by how the movie stooped to an "Asians speak'a da Engrish" joke with that girl standing outside the abortion clinic? Talk about a cheap and stupid (attempted) laugh. Blech. Not as juicily risible, but the Kraken anecdote in the same scene is probably the film's peak of lameness. Well, I dunno, maybe not, but it's not even a groaner, it's just lame.


I was far more infuriated with the intellectual laziness of the ultrasound woman's scene, which was so one-sided that I inherently started to dislike it at that point. Another reaction of that scene is here (http://themanfromporlock.blogspot.com/2008/01/fringe-characters.html). I just didn't know what to make of that scene. I found the mom's targeting of the woman's occupation (and thus self-worth) unnecessarily cruel (and imagine how real ultrasound technicians will feel when watching the movie, their job being synonymized with vacuousness!). I suppose it's in line with the film's characterization of Juno (and thus her stepmom) as cruel in the need to set themselves apart on the higher ground... but yeah, the film totally sides with the stepmom and that doesn't sit right, no matter how "coldly-judgemental" faced the technician is.

[Sycophant]

I was far more infuriated with the intellectual laziness of the ultrasound woman's scene, which was so one-sided that I inherently started to dislike it at that point. Another reaction of that scene is here (http://themanfromporlock.blogspot.com/2008/01/fringe-characters.html).
God, I knew that scene was coming and it was even worse than I'd imagined. I nearly walked out.

Six things. Bullet-point style.

1. There is no growth in the Juno character. None. Unless crying is growth.
2. The film's a structural mess. Its rhythm is alright, but every single plot thread is
3. A 16-year-old with a vintage-punk favorites list and an opinion on Argento? Please expose her as pretentious and acting like she has more knowledge than she does... Don't-don't let her get away with all this posing... She is posing, right? Right? Wait... why isn't she sure whether or not Zeus had more than one wife? What the fuck?
4. Speaking of which, swear. Please. I've never seen a film more obviously handicapped by its PG-13 rating.
5. And goddammit! Stop telling and show us something. If Juno's life is being made harder by being pregnant, show how that's affecting her, not a cute little quip that probably references... something.
6. On second thought, just shut up, goddammit.

[Spinal]

3. A 16-year-old with a vintage-punk favorites list and an opinion on Argento? Please expose her as pretentious and acting like she has more knowledge than she does... Don't-don't let her get away with all this posing...

It's almost as if she's talking like a 30-year-old stripper who all of a sudden decided she wanted to be a screenwriter.

[Boner M]

I liked The Stooges and Argento when I was 16. :sad:

[Spinal]

I liked The Stooges and Argento when I was 16. :sad:

When did you stop stripping?

[Sycophant]

It's almost as if she's talking like a 30-year-old stripper who all of a sudden decided she wanted to be a screenwriter.Oh, yeah. That.

One thing I meant to include in my list but got carried away and didn't mention: The soundtrack. Good Lord, I got it. Amazing that every transition was signaled with one of those cut-from-the-same-yard-of-cloth indie songs. Note that I say transition and not emotion, because generally the songs are just there as non-diegetic background music. And I even kind of like that "genre"! (I like the Velvet Underground song here, by the way, but hate its use.)

Also, it's strange how much someone who likes that kind of seventies punk thing so much would show no evidence of it in their life, habits, speech, decor, or, y'know, anything.

[Boner M]

2. The film's a structural mess. Its rhythm is alright, but every single plot thread is
Wait, was this intentional?

[Sycophant]

Wait, was this intentional?Ahem. I'm going to go edit that now. :eek:

EDIT: On second thought, no, it actually sums up my thoughts on the film's plot threads pretty well.

[Boner M]

EDIT: On second thought, no, it actually sums up my thoughts on the film's plot threads pretty well.
If only the film was so brilliantly uncalculated. :)

[Rowland]

5. And goddammit! Stop telling and show us something. If Juno's life is being made harder by being pregnant, show how that's affecting her, not a cute little quip that probably references... something.*ding* *ding* *ding*

We have a winner. Seriously, for a movie that is ostensibly about this girl's pregnancy and how it brings about her maturation, they did a really poor job of actually developing this. And the relationship with Bleaker is a virtual nonentity.

[Derek]

*ding* *ding* *ding*

We have a winner. Seriously, for a movie that is ostensibly about this girl's pregnancy and how it brings about her maturation, they did a really poor job of actually developing this. And the relationship with Bleaker is a virtual nonentity.

Yup, it's kinda hard to develop a relationship when a character disappears for half the movie.

[Bosco B Thug]

God, I knew that scene was coming and it was even worse than I'd imagined. I nearly walked out.

Six things. Bullet-point style.

1. There is no growth in the Juno character. None. Unless crying is growth. What kind of growth were you looking for? She learns about things from the adopting parents, she has a heart-to-heart with her "wise and understanding" father, and she owns up to Pauly. Her crying at the end is effective as a moment of release for her and its climactic nature gives it the ability to compound everything we can think of that might've weighed down on this particular girl in lieu of this recent experience in her life.


3. A 16-year-old with a vintage-punk favorites list and an opinion on Argento? Please expose her as pretentious and acting like she has more knowledge than she does... Don't-don't let her get away with all this posing... She is posing, right? Right? Wait... why isn't she sure whether or not Zeus had more than one wife? What the fuck? The film is about this girl who wants to set herself apart from the her notions of "the moronic masses," and the film knows that. I've conceded the dialogue is annoyingly referential and self-congratulatory, but isn't the film essentially bringing her condescension down a peg when the person she thinks is special (Mark, because he has music in him and enjoys the self-aware pleasures of H.G. Lewis) turns out to fall into the usual human pitfalls of vapidity, irresponsibility, and smallness? Too bad Vanessa is left as a bastion of whatever at the end.


5. And goddammit! Stop telling and show us something. If Juno's life is being made harder by being pregnant, show how that's affecting her, not a cute little quip that probably references... something. I'm not sure what you mean here, but while I again concede that the film is definitely not concerned with exploring social realities - Pauly's not a deadbeat, Juno's not a sexually active teenager with self-esteem problems, the father's wise and understanding, etc. - it works when you see the film as the world Juno has created for her: its contained within a sphere of people she likes. The pregnancy threatens that but she thinks she can work with it. The "Reveal pregnancy to parents" scene is interesting because Juno has a mindset of "I've got this situation under control, I'm unique and mature, I know what I did, and I like my parents so I'm sure this scene will play out in a way that shows how both me and my parents are extra-ordinary and the best sort of people." Not until the adoptive parents come in and Pauly supposedly fails her does she get really shook.

[Bosco B Thug]

Yup, it's kinda hard to develop a relationship when a character disappears for half the movie. I liked the texture the film created with this. He disappears from the movie for a while, but it works in the construct of the film: he's supposed to be a non-assertive, non-memorable person and Juno herself is confused why she is so attached to him, and she constantly underestimates him. So it's contextualized thematically with his lack of screentime. Juno pushes him to the background, so the film does also. Bleaker is someone she dismisses, but in the end she realizes his attitudes toward things are exactly what she wants and needs to fall back on.

[NickGlass]

I liked The Stooges and Argento when I was 16. :sad:

And now you use a 100-point rating scale.

[Derek]

I liked the texture the film created with this. He disappears from the movie for a while, but it works in the construct of the film: he's supposed to be a non-assertive, non-memorable person and Juno herself is confused why she is so attached to him, and she constantly underestimates him. So it's contextualized thematically with his lack of screentime. Juno pushes him to the background, so the film does also. Bleaker is someone she dismisses, but in the end she realizes his attitudes toward things are exactly what she wants and needs to fall back on.

But the film doesn't develop this at all. It simply drops him for convenience sake, so he doesn't interfere with the Page/Bateman relationship. There's no texture, no fabric behind this, just lazy screenwriting that lets a character fall to the background b/c he can serve no further role until the end. I don't buy that she'd get pregnant by him, not talk to him for 8 months and then reunite in that fashion. It felt incredibly hackneyed and forced to me, especially since the shows no falling out or Juno pushing him to the background. Bwahahahaha!!

[Derek]

And now you use a 100-point rating scale.

'Tis better than the "Hmm." rating scale, I'd say. :)

[Bosco B Thug]

Bwahahahaha!! I have a feeling this is in response to something else. :P Two films with such grossly obscene amounts of praise, when letting your thoughts out on it it's hard not to express how satisfying it is! I just think people are being a bit dismissive of this movie.


But the film doesn't develop this at all. It simply drops him for convenience sake, so he doesn't interfere with the Page/Bateman relationship. How is it convenient? What is there for him to interfere in? The Page/Bateman relationship that he has nothing to do with? The film knows what it wants to do with his character, he isn't dropped for "convenience." A more average movie would probably have had the Page/Cera relationship's ups and downs the center of the movie, but I admired this film's cross-cutting attentions.


There's no texture, no fabric behind this, just lazy screenwriting that lets a character fall to the background b/c he can serve no further role until the end. I thought it was quite effective how the final act when Juno starts realizing things ushers in her reconciliation with Cera. I did really hate the tic tac gag. Filling up his mailbox with them... that's not apologetic, that's self-gratifying.


I don't buy that she'd get pregnant by him, not talk to him for 8 months and then reunite in that fashion. I'll give you that. My argument works only in context of the film's incredibly "fairy tale" approach to a serious topic. But I think this film is just more carefully calibrated and detailed than There Will Be Blood.


It felt incredibly hackneyed and forced to me, especially since the shows no falling out or Juno pushing him to the background. There is, isn't there?

[origami_mustache]

Though I don't feel Juno's important enough of a film to defend, a friend argued that it establishes this sitcom-y feel to it through its very title sequencing, where it blends the drawings with live action.

Yeah, Junocertainly seems like it was influenced quite a bit by television, especially the over the top phony banter, which is why I despise so much of it. The film just offers absolutely nothing significant and is obnoxiously in love with itself.

[Derek]

I have a feeling this is in response to something else. :P Two films with such grossly obscene amounts of praise, when letting your thoughts out on it it's hard not to express how satisfying it is! I just think people are being a bit dismissive of this movie.

Yes, one film deserving of its accolades, the other not so much. I admit its satisfying expressing disapproval in this case, but no, I don't see the joy in repeatedly pissing on people's parades in an obnoxious way.


How is it convenient? What is there for him to interfere in? The Page/Bateman relationship that he has nothing to do with? The film knows what it wants to do with his character, he isn't dropped for "convenience." A more average movie would probably have had the Page/Cera relationship's ups and downs the center of the movie, but I admired this film's cross-cutting attentions.

Of course the film knows what it wants to do with his character and it does it. A more average movie would have the true father of Juno's child be an actual presence rather than someone who is told that it's cool and the baby's going up for adoption; see ya in 8 months. A more average movie wouldn't simply ignore a character only to show Juno's time spent with Bateman. He lived an hour away and parts of the film make it seem like they hang out every day.


I'll give you that. My argument works only in context of the film's incredibly "fairy tale" approach to a serious topic.

So because of it's fairy tale approach, it's somehow natural to dismiss a character like that until it fits the films purpose to have him reappear?


But I think this film is just more carefully calibrated and detailed than There Will Be Blood.

Heh, that's funny. There's more meaningful character detail in a single Day-Lewis glare than a majority of Juno's hipper-than-thou posturing.

[QUOTE=Bosco B Thug]There is, isn't there?

Not that I recall, but I could be wrong.

[NickGlass]

'Tis better than the "Hmm." rating scale, I'd say. :)

But it includes sounds that are more ambiguous than "Meh." How cool is that?

[Boner M]

But it includes sounds that are more ambiguous than "Meh." How cool is that?
Don't tell me that you found TM 'meh'. What gives, anyway?

[Ivan Drago]

Another problem I had with Juno was its soundtrack. It just screams indie.

[Sycophant]

Another problem I had with Juno was its soundtrack. It just screams indie.O RLY? (http://match-cut.org/showthread.php?p=31638&highlight=juno#post31638)

And man. Have you seen this German film, Run Lola Run? Its soundtrack screams techno. The Life Aquatic screams... er, David Bowie songs in Portugese. And don't even get me started on what Fantasia screams!

:P

[Rowland]

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7171/junobg5.gif

[Rowland]

Seriously though, I'd be willing to give this another shot... someday. I'm not sure how justified my vitriolic response was, even if I remain convinced that it's a highly flawed work.

[eternity]

Another problem I had with Juno was its soundtrack. It just screams indie.

My only problem with the soundtrack is everyone splooging over The Moldy Peaches and Kimya Dawson. Even I think they're fucking annoying.

[eternity]

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7171/junobg5.gifOkay, that's funny.

[Spun Lepton]

Caught it this weekend. B-

Decent story, good performances all around.

Juno's dialogue starts out sounding more manufactured than natural, and we're just assaulted with it in the first 10 minutes or so. Then it eases off the "hipness" of the dialogue enough to allow the characters to emerge more clearly. JK Simmons played the stand-out character as far as I was concerned, he really grounded a lot of the film.

Aside from that, it's your typical coming of age story. I'm glad the story didn't resolve in a clean-cut sitcom-y way with everything "working out" at the end. The characters remain true to their convictions, which is nice.

Best picture-worthy? Not in my opinion, but whatever. I don't really give a crap about the Oscars anyway.

As for the ultrasound scene, I sided with the mother. It's not the ultra-sound tech's place to opine about her clients, what she did was exceptionally rude, so the mother verbally beating her down was perfectly acceptable. Suggesting that other ultra-sound techs might take the scene personally is a little ridiculous, people.

[Rowland]

As for the ultrasound scene, I sided with the mother. It's not the ultra-sound tech's place to opine about her clients, what she did was exceptionally rude, so the mother verbally beating her down was perfectly acceptable. Suggesting that other ultra-sound techs might take the scene personally is a little ridiculous, people.Hell, I'm not an ultra-sound tech, and I took it personally. It was a straw-man castigation, obviously fabricated for the punchline (the stepmother's ugly insults which we are expected to cheer on) and for yet another opportunity where any chance of real-world perspective pertaining to teen pregnancy is hastily and snarkily swept aside.

[Ivan Drago]

My only problem with the soundtrack is everyone splooging over The Moldy Peaches and Kimya Dawson. Even I think they're fucking annoying.

So Nice So Smart by Kimya Dawson is especially annoying.

[Spun Lepton]

Hell, I'm not an ultra-sound tech, and I took it personally. It was a straw-man castigation, obviously fabricated for the punchline (the stepmother's ugly insults which we are expected to cheer on) and for yet another opportunity where any chance of real-world perspective pertaining to teen pregnancy is hastily and snarkily swept aside.

:|

Ultrasound tech was rude, mom was rude back at her. I guess I don't fully grasp what problem people have constructed around this scene ...

[Rowland]

:|

Ultrasound tech was rude, mom was rude back at her. I guess I don't fully grasp what problem people have constructed around this scene ...And if you thought it was funny, that's your prerogative.

[Spinal]

I thought Rowland put it clearly and succintly. It's a transparent and unimaginative effort to manufacture sympathy for the protagonist.

[Spun Lepton]

And if you thought it was funny, that's your prerogative.

I got a chuckle out of it, that's about it.

[Spun Lepton]

I thought Rowland put it clearly and succintly. It's a transparent and unimaginative effort to manufacture sympathy for the protagonist.

I didn't get that, either. If anything, aside from providing Juno with the photo that will continue the story moving, it demonstrates that Juno's step-mother is as supportive as a real mother would be. If we were meant to feel badly for Juno, she would've been struck by emotion when the tech snarked at her, maybe the music would've become a little sad.

No, Juno remains gleefully unaffected, if a little angered by the snark.

[Sycophant]

I didn't get that, either. If anything, aside from providing Juno with the photo that will continue the story moving, it demonstrates that Juno's step-mother is as supportive as a real mother would be. If we were meant to feel badly for Juno, she would've been struck by emotion when the tech snarked at her, maybe the music would've become a little sad.

No, Juno remains gleefully unaffected, if a little angered by the snark.
It's a shoehorned moment for an ancillary character whose only purpose is to be attacked, reflecting the ugly mentality of venomous objectification that plagues this film and far too many others, denying them of any psychology and simply putting them up as straw men to be dressed down and humiliated to earn the sympathies of the audience and dismiss a non-issue. Am I taking out a general complaint on this one movie? Fuck yeah I am.

For a good counterpoint to this kind of mindless I'm-right hatred, see the above-referenced link that describes a much more tastefully handled pregnancy-related professional in Knocked Up.

[Spun Lepton]

It's a shoehorned moment for an ancillary character whose only purpose is to be attacked, reflecting the ugly mentality of venomous objectification that plagues this film and far too many others, denying them of any psychology and simply putting them up as straw men to be dressed down and humiliated to earn the sympathies of the audience and dismiss a non-issue. Am I taking out a general complaint on this one movie? Fuck yeah I am.

Objectification of whom? Explain what you mean by "denying them of any psychology," and what straw man are you talking about?

[Sycophant]

Objectification of whom? Explain what you mean by "denying them of any psychology," and what straw man are you talking about?Objectification of any characters that aren't characters. Perhaps "denying them of any psychology" would be better replaced by "robbing them of any human sympathy or quality" and the straw man of this being a completely bullshit excuse for the existence of a showdown.

And, seriously, the level to which the stepmother took things was insane (your job is worthless and so are you, how dare you suggest that the best thing for my daughter is the best thing for my daughter), though if I saw people reacting characteristically unhuman I might react in strange ways too.

This is where the family of Juno reminded me of the family in Million Dollar Baby.

[/too far]

[Sven]

For a good counterpoint to this kind of mindless I'm-right hatred, see the above-referenced link that describes a much more tastefully handled pregnancy-related professional in Knocked Up.

The doctor in Knocked Up is one of the better parts of that movie, but I am going to raise the issue here, just because it's that time of the month again where I get all bitchy about Apatow & Co., of that linked article's unquestioning attitude towards Apatow's work. While there may not be many peripheral characters in Knocked Up that get ridiculed for validation of the filmmakers' positions (that was Paul Rudd's character's job), the example he cites of the bouncer at the fight club is an almost more egregious misuse of the minor-character-as-object-of-filmmaker's-agenda tool. Just because the bouncer isn't ridiculed did not make the ensuing attempt to "humanize" the bouncer completely ridiculous--his speech has no context, relevance, or bearing to anything at all in the movie besides itself, which is just Apatow and Co. saying that they believe that black people have feelings too. Delves into issues of social class my ass. What issues?

Just the other day, I watched Brewster McCloud which features a black chauffeur who keeps popping up throughout the picture. He doesn't have a single line of dialogue (outside of overtracked profanities expressing his exasperation), but the effect of his role in the picture on the audience - that of marginalization not just of race (which white people in America can't really empathize with), but of corporate abuse and middle class dependence at the expense of dignity or a voice - is immense. Well, as immense as anything in an Altman film ever is, which is to say, as notable as everything else.

None of this has anything to do with Juno, and for that I apologize. I am now off the soapbox.

[origami_mustache]

My only problem with the soundtrack is everyone splooging over The Moldy Peaches and Kimya Dawson. Even I think they're fucking annoying.

The Moldy Peaches were just fine seven years ago when their album came out and the whole anti-folk scene was fresh. What's annoying is hearing that song just now getting radio play which it never deserved or sought out to begin with, all because of this alleged "trendy" movie.

[Spun Lepton]

Objectification of any characters that aren't characters. Perhaps "denying them of any psychology" would be better replaced by "robbing them of any human sympathy or quality" and the straw man of this being a completely bullshit excuse for the existence of a showdown.

The strawman being what, that ultrasound techs hold incorrect opinions about teenaged mothers ... ??

You're suggesting that being nosy and snarky aren't human qualities??

[Sycophant]

The strawman being what, that ultrasound techs hold incorrect opinions about teenaged mothers ... ??

You're suggesting that being nosy and snarky aren't human qualities??Yes. That is what I am suggesting.

[Spun Lepton]

Yes. That is what I am suggesting.

Sarcasm noted. Doesn't help your case, any.

[Sycophant]

Sarcasm noted. Doesn't help your case, any.
I know. But I'm tired.


I thought Rowland put it clearly and succintly. It's a transparent and unimaginative effort to manufacture sympathy for the protagonist.

[Spun Lepton]

While there may not be many peripheral characters in Knocked Up that get ridiculed for validation of the filmmakers' positions..

So, the whole stink about the ultrasound scene is that it seems to be a pedestal for the filmmakers to preach their own opinions on teenaged motherhood. I like you, iosos, you're succinct.

Yeah, okay, I can see that. I didn't really see it when I was at the film, but I can see it now.

I understand why that might tick somebody off. No, an unwed teenaged mother isn't an ideal environment for a child to be raised, it's true. It is a little much to suggest that ANY married couple is going to be an improvement over ANY teenaged mother. The ultrasound tech was making just such an assumption, and was duly knocked down a peg for it. This is what I gathered from the scene, and they're right. There's as much gray area as anything.

If the film wanted to bang on the "teenaged mother POWER" agenda, they probably would not have had Juno give up the kid to adoptive parents.

[Spun Lepton]

I know. But I'm tired.

No worries. ;) I'm also working, so I'm getting distracted left and right as I reply to these.

[number8]

You know, my problem with that scene is mainly because I don't understand the point of the scene to begin with. Is it to have Diablo Cody preach about not assuming that someone like Juno is incapable? Then it backfired, because Juno is clearly ill-equipped to raise a child, since she's the most childish character in the entire film. Is it to show Juno's stepmom's care for her? Isn't there a better way to show this than to have her spew vitriol at some random character? Is it to teach us that no matter how wrong you think something is, you should check yourself from saying rude comments? That's negated by the fact that the relatable character is saying ruder comments back. What was the idea behind that scene?

[monolith94]

This is a movie about characters who pretend to care about art, pretending to be art that we can care about. It's not a terrible film - it's just utterly, utterly insignificant.

[origami_mustache]

You know, my problem with that scene is mainly because I don't understand the point of the scene to begin with.

you could go ahead and replace the word scene with film.

[monolith94]

Also, I'd like to note that the technique that the film had of introducing characters by showing us a quick visual montage of a few things that they're involved in was very "Amelie" - this was mainly at the beginning.

It's interesting that the guy Juno chooses is no Jupiter.