Jennifer's Body (Diablo Cody + Megan Fox)

[Ezee E]

Trailer (http://www.shocktillyoudrop.com/news/topnews.php?id=10988)

Thanks Duke for posting this in the horror thread.

I think it looks pretty good actually. Love the Thai food line.

[Mara]

You think so? Because my face does this:

:|

[Dukefrukem]

I'm excited.

[number8]

That made me want to savage my earholes with a sharp object.

Why does this movie exist?

[Dukefrukem]

That made me want to savage my earholes with a sharp object.

Why does this movie exist?

Because you touch yourself at night.

[Kurosawa Fan]

That looks terrible.

[Watashi]

I don't even need to watch the trailer to know it's terrible.

Diablo Cody is a plague.

[Mara]

I'm pretty sure the title gives away the entire plot.

[Sven]

Actually, I think the premise is promising, but given Fox and Diablo's IRL trashiness and the woman-power angle of its director, I'm sure the anxieties on display will be minimized in the name of lame-ass half-baked neo-feminist pablum.

And I liked the way the trailer used that "I know what boys want" song.

[Wryan]

Naw.

I still think Juno is just fine tho.

[Spinal]

Trailer doesn't look too bad, but then I kind of liked the trailer for Juno before I saw the film. Cody's in the penalty box with me. Gonna have to be some pretty strong reviews for me to see a film named after a Hole song.

[Mara]

I still think Juno is just fine tho.

I thought it was charming, if somewhat inconsequential.

[Grouchy]

I like the premise + Megan Fox but the dialogue on that trailer is as bad as the dialogue in Juno, or even worse.

"I mean she's evil... not highschool evil". Bah. Fuck off and go back to stripping.

[number8]

Well... She wasn't even a real stripper.

[number8]

Also, what's this good premise you guys are liking? A popular chick is actually a demon eating people? That's... really lame. Am I missing something?

[Cult]

Love the Thai food line.

I don't get it. :confused:

[Mara]

I don't get it. :confused:

Me neither. But by all that is holy, please nobody explain it.

[Grouchy]

Also, what's this good premise you guys are liking? A popular chick is actually a demon eating people? That's... really lame. Am I missing something?
Eh, good question - the highschool-comedy-horror angle is what sells it, I think, plus having a huge sex bomb as the demon.

But yeah, it's no Teeth.

[Dukefrukem]

What's not to get?

[Ezee E]

I don't get it. :confused:
The delivery more than anything.

[trotchky]

I like the premise + Megan Fox but the dialogue on that trailer is as bad as the dialogue in Juno, or even worse.

"I mean she's evil... not highschool evil". Bah. Fuck off and go back to stripping.

Yeah, that line was pretty fucking stupid. Diablo Cody should watch Brick before she writes any more dialogue for high school characters. Then again, maybe she shouldn't.

[Cult]

Me neither. But by all that is holy, please nobody explain it.

You're right, I want to be able to still eat cashew chicken in peace.

[MacGuffin]

I'm not going to waste my time watching the trailer. I already know that this looks terrible, and probably is terrible.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I want to see it

[Dukefrukem]

I want to see it

rep


I'm not going to waste my time watching the trailer. I already know that this looks terrible, and probably is terrible.

neg rep

[NickGlass]

Yeah, that line was pretty fucking stupid. Diablo Cody should watch Brick before she writes any more dialogue for high school characters. Then again, maybe she shouldn't.

Yeah, at least Brick justifies the artificiality of its dialogue.

Whether or not it ends up similar to Teeth, a film I loathe, I don't plan to give this a second glance.

[Derek]

neg rep

You have no idea how valuable Clipper's time is.

[Spun Lepton]

I'll have to watch this later.

Is the dialogue Juno-esqe? 'Cuz it sounds like it. Instant Fail, if so.

[MacGuffin]

You have no idea how valuable Clipper's time is.

Hahah, yep, you guys are lucky I responded to this thread. Twice.

[The Mike]

I can dig it.

Though, I'm surprised they're billing it as a "nostalgia" picture "like the ones we grew up with", when I'm thinking "Wait, you grew up in the late '90s?"

(Although, I'm sure one or twenty of you immediately wanted to respond to that paragraph with "Diablo Cody never grew up". Sorry.)

[Sycophant]

(Although, I'm sure one or twenty of you immediately wanted to respond to that paragraph with "Diablo Cody never grew up". Sorry.)

I don't think Cody's detractors think the real problem is that she's immature; it's that she's not a very good writer.

[Spinal]

Well, if someone is 21 years old, then they were about 8 years old when Scream came out.

[Eleven]

Irony is so 90s, Hack-y Jackie.

[The Mike]

Well, if someone is 21 years old, then they were about 8 years old when Scream came out.
Yeah, but she's like 31. So I find it odd she's saying she grew up on movies like this when she was graduated from high school.

[number8]

Wasn't there a Herschel Lewis reference in Juno? Maybe that's what they're referring to. The kind of movies they discovered in high school.

[trotchky]

Yeah, at least Brick justifies the artificiality of its dialogue.

Yeah, and it never breaks its own rules. When Brendan dismissively tells the vice-principal, "I'll see you at the parent conference," we laugh, but they don't, because that's the world to them. Same with the "eating lunch" motif and the Pin's mom--none of this is funny to the characters; it's routine, and in some cases deadly-serious. On the other hand, something tells me no high school student alive would make a distinction like "real evil" as opposed to "high school evil."

[The Mike]

Wasn't there a Herschel Lewis reference in Juno? Maybe that's what they're referring to. The kind of movies they discovered in high school.

True, but the trailer made me think more of Urban Legend/The Faculty/Dangerous Behavior type horror.

[Bosco B Thug]

The elaborate sequence of words with which Cody employs to effect the desire of one character to see another character get a manicure is just so f*king necessary, it just boggles my mind. What a screenwriter, am I right, people?

This will be glossy fluff. I'm seeing it, nevertheless.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, and it never breaks its own rules. When Brendan dismissively tells the vice-principal, "I'll see you at the parent conference," we laugh, but they don't, because that's the world to them. Same with the "eating lunch" motif and the Pin's mom--none of this is funny to the characters; it's routine, and in some cases deadly-serious. On the other hand, something tells me no high school student alive would make a distinction like "real evil" as opposed to "high school evil."
Juno had the same way of working. Both movies, Brick a bit less but only because it isn't as well known, were criticized (and applauded) for their dialog.

[trotchky]

Juno had the same way of working. Both movies, Brick a bit less but only because it isn't as well known, were criticized (and applauded) for their dialog.

I think the difference is that Juno doesn't establish itself as an alternate reality like Brick does, so the dialogue is more bad.

Furthermore, the dialogue in Brick is closer to a Clockwork Orange-esque dialect than anything; the same thing is definitely not true about the dialogue in Juno.

[trotchky]

Anyway, Bosco B Thug already stated my own bottom-line on the trailer: "This will be glossy fluff. I'm seeing it, nevertheless."

[lovejuice]

i like juno, but even that, this doesn't look too good.

[B-side]

Awful. Strangely, I like Diablo Cody herself. It's her dialogue that upsets me.

[NickGlass]

Juno had the same way of working. Both movies, Brick a bit less but only because it isn't as well known, were criticized (and applauded) for their dialog.

Brick's stylized dialogue is cleverly derived from its conceit, while Juno's "stylized" dialogue simply reeks of a hack writer who can only write one character.

[eternity]

Let the high school elephant in the room make it clear: Juno has more realistic teenage dialogue than just about any other high school film I've seen released in the last 5 or so years. It absolutely nails it.

[Sven]

Let the high school elephant in the room make it clear: Juno has more realistic teenage dialogue than just about any other high school film I've seen released in the last 5 or so years. It absolutely nails it.

Are you attempting an authoritative statement? I believe most of us went through high school.

[Sycophant]

Yeah, I know high school kids that don't talk like Juno characters. And no one talked like this eight years ago when I was in high school.

Furthermore, no one not in high school talks like Juno characters either, as the not-in-high-school Juno characters did.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I've never heard anyone in my real life, no matter what age, talk like the characters in Juno.

[number8]

Furthermore, no one not in high school talks like Juno characters either, as the not-in-high-school Juno characters did.

Ding. That's my problem with this defense that if you don't get Juno's dialogue, it's because of an age thing. As if Juno only has high school characters, when in fact it only has 3.

Does it matter anyway? Dumb dialogue is dumb dialogue, realistic or not.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I've never heard anyone in my real life, no matter what age, talk like the characters in Juno.

Same here, not that I think that's a big deal. It's stylized dialogue, clearly how Cody wants her characters to speak. I see no large difference between it and the way Kevin Smith or Richard Linklater write.

I do think it took a little more adjustment time for Cody, because it's so affected, but by the end I was enjoying it.

[Spinal]

I see no large difference between it and the way Kevin Smith or Richard Linklater write.


I don't like their writing either.

Except for Dazed and Confused.

[lovejuice]

Same here, not that I think that's a big deal. It's stylized dialogue, clearly how Cody wants her characters to speak. I see no large difference between it and the way Kevin Smith or Richard Linklater write.
that's a really good point.

[trotchky]

I don't like their writing either.

Except for Dazed and Confused.

Come on, Slacker has some pretty great lines.

"Sorry I'm late."
"Oh, that's okay, time doesn't exist anyway."

[Ezee E]

The only scene I don't like in Juno is the grocery/7-11 one with Rainn Wilson who is just awful.

[eternity]

Are you attempting an authoritative statement? I believe most of us went through high school.Things change, y'know. People tend to punish this movie based upon the dialogue yet only two
three characters speak in the way that they judge it for, which is pretty ludicrous to me, considering how this is just how characters talk. You might not like the character but that's not a negative to judge a film on. Ever. Juno "talks funny", I've met enough people with Juno-esque qualities where it was natural in every way. Her best friend Leah is a poser, pretentious version of her best friend which she serves as sidekick to. Rainn Wilson's semi-cameo is the eccentric weirdo guy that in my experience, everyone seems to know one. He's "that guy". The fact is, those are the only three characters with any noticeable eccentricities and none of them are even remotely unrealistic. It's pretty simple to judge a movie and it's writing for portraying people that do exist that most movies tend to shy away from. The eccentric and the non-eccentric, Diablo seemed to write them all perfectly.

Her script writing ability is pretty horrid when you read off the page and it wouldn't work nearly as well if the actors didn't make the most of the material, but in a world where most films, even most films that are critically regarded, are completely wooden and do not come close to understanding the nuances and quirks in everyone's dialect, all being different from everyone else, Diablo seemed to really get that. Which is why any criticism of those characters or the dialogue in this movie just seems foolish.

[Spun Lepton]

You might not like the character but that's not a negative to judge a film on. Ever.

What if you're supposed to like the character and you don't? Seems like a pretty valid complaint to me.


Her script writing ability is pretty horrid ...

You said it, not me.

[Cult]

I don't want to believe in a world where people would "naturally" spout off something like "honest to blog!" I don't even think it's possible. It's weird enough that Cody would even come up with that. Was she just trying to think of the stupidest, most random, groan-inducing line possible?

I'm glad I don't live in eternity's town.

[Spun Lepton]

Just for the record, I liked Juno. I'm just skeptical that her dialog style would translate well into a horror flick.

[Spun Lepton]

I just watched the trailer. Not very impressed.

[[ETM]]

I guess the trailer helped with the origin of this "nude" shoot with Fox (NSFW):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/RoyFokker/Megan_Fox_topless_naked_nude_b reast.jpg

[eternity]

I don't want to believe in a world where people would "naturally" spout off something like "honest to blog!" I don't even think it's possible. It's weird enough that Cody would even come up with that. Was she just trying to think of the stupidest, most random, groan-inducing line possible?

I'm glad I don't live in eternity's town.
It's made clear that Leah is the poser, fake friend. Thus "honest to blog" is being frowned upon just as much as you are frowning upon it, I would guess.

[eternity]

What if you're supposed to like the character and you don't? Seems like a pretty valid complaint to me.



You said it, not me.I don't necessarily like the character Juno. I don't like her for different reasons than most do, but I feel like she's kind of a snooty bitch.

Doesn't change the fact that it's an amazing movie, all ripoffs of Ghost World aside.

[right_for_the_moment]

I still maintain that "honest to blog" is a clever line

[trotchky]

I still maintain that "honest to blog" is a clever line

Clever? Really? I can understand "not horrible," but clever?

[right_for_the_moment]

Clever? Really? I can understand "not horrible," but clever?

Yeah, for sure. It's like "honest to god?" but with "blog" supplanting "god" as the standard, goto confessional outlet. It reflects changing cultural dynamics and their relation to the teens in the film. It also places the film firmly in its moment of time. Where before one would confess the truth to God, no matter how painful, embarrassing or revealing, it's now one's blog that offers that opportunity for unfiltered personal expression and confession and, in turn, it's one's blog that these teens seek out. It also alludes to Cody's history as a blogger, which undoubtedly provided her with this sort of outlet.

I think in the context of the film, Juno says something surprising and this line is Leah's response. It's as if to say, if Juno would write it in her blog it must be true.

But then again I'm a probably a bigger of fan of the film than almost anyone else on Match-Cut (Eternity excluded, of course).

[trotchky]

Yeah, for sure. It's like "honest to god?" but with "blog" supplanting "god" as the standard, goto confessional outlet. It reflects changing cultural dynamics and their relation to the teens in the film. It also places the film firmly in its moment of time. Where before one would confess the truth to God, no matter how painful, embarrassing or revealing, it's now one's blog that offers that opportunity for unfiltered personal expression and confession and, in turn, it's one's blog that these teens seek out. It also alludes to Cody's history as a blogger, which undoubtedly provided her with this sort of outlet.

I think in the context of the film, Juno says something surprising and this line is Leah's response. It's as if to say, if Juno would write it in her blog it must be true.

But then again I'm a probably a bigger of fan of the film than almost anyone else on Match-Cut (Eternity excluded, of course).

That has occurred to me, as well, but it's such an obvious and, to my mind, hamfisted way of making the point. Plus, those changing cultural dynamics you speak of aren't really reflected in the film, at all. Also, I know of very, very few high schoolers who have a blog and even less who would admit it. She could have said "Honest to Facebook?" (Christ, just typing that makes me feel dirty) and it would have had the same implications while also being more realistic and just as obvious and hamfisted and stupid-sounding. The only difference is that "Facebook" doesn't rhyme with "God," but then, rhyming "blog" with "God" isn't particularly clever to begin with.

[transmogrifier]

First Brick, now Juno?

You have some mighty sins to absolve, eternity my friend.

Pop quiz: Lost Highway, School of Rock, The Frighteners

Yay or nay?

[Boner M]

I don't mind the anti-naturalistic lingo in Juno (I'm frankly unsurprised that Mike Leigh is a fan), which at least creates a nice sense of a self-enclosed universe, even if the accumulation of clever phrases reek of a writer being too impressed by herself. I just can't be too invested in a character whose only real flaw is occasionally not seeming like the coolest person ever, or whose greatest emotional issue with her pregnancy is that her schoolmates stare at her bloated stomach.

[Dukefrukem]

First Brick, now Juno?

You have some mighty sins to absolve, eternity my friend.

Pop quiz: Lost Highway, School of Rock, The Frighteners

Yay or nay?

The Frighteners > School of Rock > Lost Highway

[Kurosawa Fan]

The Frighteners > School of Rock > Lost Highway

Duke apparently works in inverse.

[Wryan]

Duke apparently works in inverse.

TF is pretty fun, though, gotta say.

[Sycophant]

whose greatest emotional issue with her pregnancy is that her schoolmates stare at her bloated stomach.

Which, by the way, is only talked about, but never seen.

[Wryan]

And a teenager in high school wouldn't feel the torment of having an accident like that be outwardly obvious and increasingly prominent? There are glances at her, but I imagined that people were talking about it more than they were letting on directly/visually...sort of like kids often do in high school. As for her showing emotion about it, she pretty clearly uses her hip/caustic personality as a shield and doesn't often break down unless she's alone or with someone important to protect her. Plus she's so confident that the problem will be over and done as soon as the baby's out that I doubt she considers herself too worried about it at all. I think a bigger point is that she strongly didn't want to be that cliched high school pregnant girl and didn't want to let it affect her but found herself affected anyway.

[NickGlass]

I just can't be too invested in a character whose only real flaw is occasionally not seeming like the coolest person ever, or whose greatest emotional issue with her pregnancy is that her schoolmates stare at her bloated stomach.

But don't you see--it's a vehicle for maturity and she looks so cute with that pig ol' pot belly!

[Ezee E]

One thing is that I can't think of any other comedy that gets as much discussion as Juno.

[KK2.0]

One thing is that I can't think of any other comedy that gets as much discussion as Juno.

the hate Juno gets is exaggerated.

can't watch the trailer for Jennifer now, but by the premise may end up being a fun horror comedy.

[Sycophant]

the hate Juno gets is exaggerated.

Not from me it isn't.

[Spinal]

I hate Little Miss Sunshine more than Juno.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I hate Little Miss Sunshine more than Juno.

Ditto.

[number8]

Ditto.

Probably same for me.

[Mara]

I don't hate either, but I found LMS completely unremarkable except as a chance to see a different side of Steve Carrell.

[DavidSeven]

Juno is definitely better than Little Miss Sunshine.

[Cult]

It's made clear that Leah is the poser, fake friend. Thus "honest to blog" is being frowned upon just as much as you are frowning upon it, I would guess.
I don't buy that at all. I think she just thought it was funny, and maybe you're giving the whole thing too much credit.

[Spun Lepton]

The Frighteners > School of Rock > Lost Highway

The dump I took today >>>> Lynch

[Dead & Messed Up]

The dump I took today >>>> Lynch > The Frighteners

Fixed.

[Spun Lepton]

Fixed.

Need to negrep rising ... RISING ...

[number8]

You'd rather smear your own shit on your TV than put a David Lynch movie on it? OK.

[Sycophant]

That's just gross.

[Spun Lepton]

You'd rather smear your own shit on your TV than put a David Lynch movie on it? OK.

Shit-smeared TV ... David Lynch movie ... same results.

:D

[eternity]

First Brick, now Juno?

You have some mighty sins to absolve, eternity my friend.

Pop quiz: Lost Highway, School of Rock, The Frighteners

Yay or nay?

Lost Highway - Yay
School of Rock - Nay
The Frighteners - Yay

[eternity]

I don't buy that at all. I think she just thought it was funny, and maybe you're giving the whole thing too much credit.I have the pretty evident fact that the characters of Juno and Leah were pretty much small deviations of Enid and Becky in Ghost World, which Diablo got a copy of that script to help her write Juno, I've heard her say before. I've always thought that Becky was just trying to be an Enid wannabe through most of the film and sort of became her own monster. Diablo tried to play things safe and not really address the Juno/Leah relationship as nothing more than just sidekicks.

I love both movies quite a bit, but Cody really pales quite a bit to Daniel Clowes in many aspects of her Juno story. She just happens to do some things I really love too.

And for the record, I don't know what the fuck Honest to Blog means.

[Dead & Messed Up]

You'd rather smear your own shit on your TV than put a David Lynch movie on it? OK.

Ideally, one would just skip the whole situation and put on Maid in Manhattan.

[number8]

Shit-smeared TV ... David Lynch movie ... same results.

:D

I'm beginning to understand your ex-roommates' emails.

[Spun Lepton]

I'm beginning to understand your ex-roommates' emails.

Low blow. :cry:

[trotchky]

Ghost World is a pretty horrible movie. I think I like Juno better.

[Ezee E]

Low blow. :cry:
Hilarious!

[KK2.0]

Ghost World is a pretty horrible movie. I think I like Juno better.

i'm more indifferent towards Juno, but i LOVE Ghost World :lol:

[Dead & Messed Up]

i'm more indifferent towards Juno, but i LOVE Ghost World :lol:

I love Ghost World purely for the scene where she's working at the movie theater. I worked at one for five years, and the scene's so accurate that I want to applaud every time it's over.

"Medium? Sir, did you not know that for a mere quarter more, you could get the large? And, you know, I'm telling you this because we're such good friends. Mediums are only for losers who don't understand the concept of value."

The rest of the film is pretty damn good, although I don't like how bitchy Enid gets towards the end.

[Spun Lepton]

I really liked Ghost World and probably owe it a revisit.

[Cult]

Ghost World is a pretty horrible movie.

:crazy:

And thanks for the response, eternity. I appreciate your shedding insight, but I never really got the sense of her being a fake friend. It just seemed like they were both cheesy, silly teens--only Juno was slightly more "alternative" than the other one. Just because Cody sites Ghost World as an influence, doesn't mean she got the effect she was going for (as far as I'm concerned).

I'd still be willing to give her another shot with Jennifer's Body, though, fwiw.

[transmogrifier]

Ghost World is a pretty horrible movie. I think I like Juno better.

If I absolutely had to choose one of the three, LMS would win hands down.

[Grouchy]

Ugh. Little Miss Sunshine is everything that's wrong with indie movies.

[MadMan]

I've yet to see Juno. To me its like Crash, in that it gets tons of hate here yet I have very little desire to see it aside from finding out what the fuss is all about.

Yes I liked the trailer for Jennifer's Body, and I found some parts to be quite funny, actually. Now whether or not it will be a good movie, I'm not sure. I do know that Megan Fox is hot.

Never saw Little Miss Sunshine or Ghost World, either. But Brick was great.

[eternity]

Little Miss Sunshine is pretty bad. It's entertaining enough to watch unattentively, but it's...it's just bad.

Madman, get on Juno, now.

[trotchky]

Never saw Little Miss Sunshine or Ghost World, either. But Brick was great.

Brick is better than all of them, no question. It's the only one that's any good.

[MadMan]

Little Miss Sunshine is pretty bad. It's entertaining enough to watch unattentively, but it's...it's just bad.My sister owns a copy, so if I ever stop being lazy and borrow it from her I'll finally see if its good or not.


Madman, get on Juno, now.Perhaps. But I have so many other movies I need/want to see, as well. Eventually I will add it to the Netflix que.

[Dukefrukem]

so hot...


http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7848/jennbodyonesheet.jpg

[Mara]

Oh good. They chose the best line from the trailer for the tagline.

:|

[Ivan Drago]

I have no desire to see Little Miss Sunshine, but I want to see Ghost World and Brick.

Thought Juno was crap, and this looks like crap as well.

[Eleven]

Eh, Amanda Seyfried's hotter.

[The Mike]

Eh, Amanda Seyfried's hotter.Double true.

Plus, the poster doesn't even make it look like Fox. Too linear and untatted.

[Dead & Messed Up]

You know how much Norm MacDonald enjoys using the word "whore"? I think that, for all these years, his mental image has been Megan Fox.

[trotchky]

You know how much Norm MacDonald enjoys using the word "whore"? I think that, for all these years, his mental image has been Megan Fox.

Why don't you just say outright that you think Megan Fox looks like a whore? Don't worry; no one's going to call you on your misogyny.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Why don't you just say outright that you think Megan Fox looks like a whore? Don't worry; no one's going to call you on your misogyny.

Probably because that's not what I was thinking.

I was thinking that her whorish nature is of a special quality, in that it somehow perfectly fits with Norm's delighted-yet-dismissive attitude towards whores and his guttural reading of the word. To explain much further would involve delving deeper into my psyche, which is never good news for anybody.

[number8]

Don't worry, DaMU. Being a Norm fan, I knew exactly what you meant.

[The Mike]

Good lord! I've never seen so many demon hookers in all my life!

[Dukefrukem]

I think you guys are confusing 'whore' with 'promiscuous'... There's a huge difference. For example: My ex-girlfriend is a whore. My new girl is promiscuous.

[Wryan]

I think you guys are confusing 'whore' with 'promiscuous'... There's a huge difference. For example: My ex-girlfriend is a whore. My new girl is promiscuous.

Sig-worthy.

[Spinal]

Yeah, that's pretty funny, Duke.

[Dukefrukem]

I'm on my A game today.

[Pop Trash]

I hate Little Miss Sunshine more than Juno.

I sorta like both, but yeah Juno is better.

[Pop Trash]

If I absolutely had to choose one of the three, LMS would win hands down.

Man, yr fuckin' crazy.

What Eternity said about Juno and Ghost World is spot on. I immediately thought of Ghost World the first time i saw Juno. I was like Diablo Cody owes Clowes and Zwigoff royalties.

[Sycophant]

Ghost World ****

Little Miss Sunshine **½

Juno ½

[Watashi]

All three films are bile.

LMS is probably the least bile.

[number8]

All three films are bile.

LMS is probably the least bile.

Correct.

[transmogrifier]

All three films are bile.

LMS is probably the least bile.

Correct.

[Rowland]

I haven't seen Ghost World since its release, and while I adored it at the time, I barely recall a thing about it now, so I suppose that may say something. LMS is barely passable indie fare with as much cloying crap as it has moments approaching insight and uplift, whereas Juno remains consistently annoying for the majority of its running time.

[Spun Lepton]

Wats, 8 and transmog ... are they women-haters?

Find out tonight on FOX News.

[Bosco B Thug]

Little Miss Sunshine is awful. Trite counter-culture hogwash. Juno is a lofty, pretentious POS compared to Little Miss Sunshine.

[Ivan Drago]

I want to add another film to these comparisons of LMS, Juno and Ghost World - Me and You and Everyone We Know. I'm almost tempted to put it in the same category as the films mentioned above...as well as the category of 'hipster nihilism'. It even reminds me a lot of Juno. But at least in July's film there are ideas behind the things that seem odd and pretentious at surface level (the guy leaving sexual notes on his window for the teenage girls to see, calling Christine to say 'macaroni', to name a couple). I don't even know what's behind yelling "Thundercats are GOOO!" when Juno goes into labor.

[number8]

I don't even know what's behind yelling "Thundercats are GOOO!" when Juno goes into labor.

LOL cuz ppl remembers Thundercats and yelling the battlecry is lulz. Altho Juno prolly wuznt born when Thundercats wuz on TV but whatevs!!1!! Its totally retro.

[eternity]

Wooden characters are lack of world-establishing and nuance <2

[trotchky]

I think this movie will be really bad.

[The Mike]

I think this movie will be really bad.

You think too much.

[number8]

I just realized today that this is directed by the same woman who did Aeon Flux.

[BuffaloWilder]

LOL cuz ppl remembers Thundercats and yelling the battlecry is lulz. Altho Juno prolly wuznt born when Thundercats wuz on TV but whatevs!!1!! Its totally retro.

It's funny, because it's actually Thundercats Ho.

[Spun Lepton]

I am sick to fucking death of the ads for this on Adult Swim after 1AM. They play adverts for it on EVERY SINGLE BREAK, sometimes even twice. I used to be interested in it, but this is making me want to avoid it big time. Naked Megan Fox or no naked Megan Fox.

[transmogrifier]

Suggestion: at 1am, be sleeping.

[number8]

This was a travesty.

Believe it or not, Diablo Cody's writing got worse. Some of the dialogue here are just desperate.

"Hell... is a teenage girl."

"I'm not jealous."
"You are. You're so jell-o that you're lime-green jello and you don't even know it."

(During an argument)
"Oh my god, move on dot org."

"I don't even know how that rumor started."
"Rumor? It's not a rumor. It's true. It's on The Wikipedia."

"Chip's looking cute lately. I bet he packs some major pubic inches. What's the story down there?"

(Scary noise startling Amanda Seyfried)
"CHEESUS FRIES!"

"Jennifer says the lead singer is extra salty."
"Salty?"
"Salty means beautiful."
"Then you must be soy sauce, babe."

(Fight scene involving box cutter)
"Do you always buy your murder weapons at home depot?"
"Do you know what this is for? It's for CUTTING BOXES!!!"
(...what?)

In case you're wondering, no, there's nothing else going for it. It's pretty much just the most generic and unoriginal teen slasher you can think of, following all the standard cliches, but with Diablo Cody dialogue to pad it out.

[number8]

Just remembered one more:

"There's no such thing as PMS. It's a lie cooked up by the boy-run media to make girls seem crazy."

[B-side]

This was a travesty.

Believe it or not, Diablo Cody's writing got worse. Some of the dialogue here are just desperate.

"Hell... is a teenage girl."

"I'm not jealous."
"You are. You're so jell-o that you're lime-green jello and you don't even know it."

(During an argument)
"Oh my god, move on dot org."

"I don't even know how that rumor started."
"Rumor? It's not a rumor. It's true. It's on The Wikipedia."

"Chip's looking cute lately. I bet he packs some major pubic inches. What's the story down there?"

(Scary noise startling Amanda Seyfried)
"CHEESUS FRIES!"

"Jennifer says the lead singer is extra salty."
"Salty?"
"Salty means beautiful."
"Then you must be soy sauce, babe."

(Fight scene involving box cutter)
"Do you always buy your murder weapons at home depot?"
"Do you know what this is for? It's for CUTTING BOXES!!!"
(...what?)

In case you're wondering, no, there's nothing else going for it. It's pretty much just the most generic and unoriginal teen slasher you can think of, following all the standard cliches, but with Diablo Cody dialogue to pad it out.

Oh. My. Fucking. God.

[Boner M]

Oh. My. Fucking. God.
Yeah, she has to be baiting her detractors. Right Diablo?

...right? :confused:

[Dukefrukem]

:(

[Wryan]

Next stop, Inside the Actor's Studio.

[Spun Lepton]

Called it last July.


I'm just skeptical that her dialog style would translate well into a horror flick.

[B-side]

Yeah, she has to be baiting her detractors. Right Diablo?

...right? :confused:

I hope so. I really, really hope so.

[Bosco B Thug]

Just remembered one more:

"There's no such thing as PMS. It's a lie cooked up by the boy-run media to make girls seem crazy."
Jesus that's stale!

I'm surprised to have the feeling that this film also suffers from a plot completely ho-hum and formulaic. It was the opinionated, self-prescribed hitches in plot that made Juno somewhat worthwhile.

[The Mike]

It amazes me how many hip/revered writers WANT to make slasher horrors. :crazy:

[MadMan]

And yet I still might see this. Maybe its because of Megan Fox. Or pure curiosity. I don't really know anymore.

[Dukefrukem]

Who said slasher horrors are bad?

[The Mike]

Who said slasher horrors are bad?In general, anyone who's ever watched more than 5 of them.

I mean, I'm not saying they can't be good. I'm just saying that every Cody/Smith/Tarantino thinks that if they do it, they'll somehow reinvent the genre. But there's just not much to work with there.

[Dukefrukem]

In general, anyone who's ever watched more than 5 of them.

I mean, I'm not saying they can't be good. I'm just saying that every Cody/Smith/Tarantino thinks that if they do it, they'll somehow reinvent the genre. But there's just not much to work with there.

Yes the majority of them are bad okay. But some are fun as hell. Venom and Scream come to mind.

[The Mike]

Yes the majority of them are bad okay. But some are fun as hell. Venom and Scream come to mind.
I agree, I just find it odd that so many assume they hold the key to shaking up the simplest of horror ideas and making something that will avoid falling into the same traps that have kept 99% of the slasher films made from working.

[Ezee E]

I'm still looking forward to it.

[Dead & Messed Up]

As far as I'm concerned, the slasher genre is dead. Behind the Mask was its proper gravestone.

[megladon8]

As far as I'm concerned, the slasher genre is dead. Behind the Mask was its proper gravestone.


That was an awesome movie (re-watched it recently, actually) but I'd hardly say the slasher is dead.

No genre can ever die. There's always someone out there with something new to say or do with a genre, it's just a matter of waiting for them to get that chance.

I similarly cannot understand when people say the western is dead, since there have been at least 3 masterpieces in the genre over the last 6 years.

[lovejuice]

That was an awesome movie (re-watched it recently, actually) but I'd hardly say the slasher is dead.

No genre can ever die. There's always someone out there with something new to say or do with a genre, it's just a matter of waiting for them to get that chance.

I similarly cannot understand when people say the western is dead, since there have been at least 3 masterpieces in the genre over the last 6 years.
as much as i agree with you that no genre can ever die, here the comparison is not apt. slasher, i think, has little future as long as it still gears toward this same demographic group, teenagers. western, on the other hand, starts reinventing itself once it realizes its more mature potential audiences.

[megladon8]

as much as i agree with you that no genre can ever die, here the comparison is not apt. slasher, i think, has little future as long as it still gears toward this same demographic group, teenagers. western, on the other hand, starts reinventing itself once it realizes its more mature potential audiences.


But what I'm saying is that there's no reason for us to think that slasher will forever and always be geared towards teenagers.

Like "Behind the Mask", which DaMU just mentioned, the slasher still has great potential for intelligence and wit.

[number8]

http://www.justpressplay.net/movie-reviews/40-reviews/5864-jennifers-body.html

[right_for_the_moment]

this movie had megan fox, a red fox, and jk simmons. i liked it.


between this, antichrist, and the fantasical mr. fox, the red fox has to be the break out critter of the year, right?

[number8]

Do you capitalize the "P" in "post-Oscar"?

We should vote on this.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Either slashers continue to be awful movies wallowing in their own stupid cliches and childish structures, or they grow up, get intelligent, and thereby cease to be slashers.

[megladon8]

Either slashers continue to be awful movies wallowing in their own stupid cliches and childish structures, or they grow up, get intelligent, and thereby cease to be slashers.


No, that's ridiculous.

[Dead & Messed Up]

No, that's ridiculous.

You're blinded by the brilliance of my truth. It's okay. It happens.

[megladon8]

You're blinded by the brilliance of my truth. It's okay. It happens.


No, I'm blinded by your saying something that makes no sense.

But it's OK. You can think you're brilliant if you want *nods*

[Dead & Messed Up]

No, I'm blinded by your saying something that makes no sense.

What is the definition of a slasher?

[Spun Lepton]

There are grown-up slashers, though. They're called giallo. :)

[megladon8]

What is the definition of a slasher?


Um...I don't really know how to answer this, because I don't think the genre (or any genre) lends itself to a single concrete definition.

Which is exactly why I completely disagree with what you said. Remove stupid teenagers and give it some thematic credibility, and it's automatically not a slasher?

I'm sure John Carpenter, Mario Bava, Dario Argento and Wes Craven would disagree with you.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Um...I don't really know how to answer this, because I don't think the genre (or any genre) lends itself to a single concrete definition.

So slashers aren't generally stories in which an implacable masked killer methodically stalks and slashes a number of young adults engaging in morally dubious activity until a final girl survives and defeats that slasher?

Yes, some of my dismissal comes from the sheer number of slashers that aren't just bad, but fucking catastrophic. In my opinion, only Black Christmas, Halloween, Elm Street, New Nightmare, Scream, and Behind the Mask are worth much of a damn.


I'm sure John Carpenter, Mario Bava, Dario Argento and Wes Craven would disagree with you.

Bah. Here's how they would actually respond.

(1) Carpenter would agree but admit that he doesn't give a shit.
(2) Bava would continue being dead.
(3) Argento would say something in Italian, then I would say something to the effect of "I like-a da piz-za," and the room would get very quiet.
(4) Craven would put forth a reasonable, somewhat elegant defense of the genre, and I'd almost conceded my points, but then I'd remember that he made The Last House on the Left, The Hills Have Eyes, The Hills Have Eyes 2, Deadly Blessing, Deadly Friend, Shocker, Vampire in Brooklyn, and Cursed.

[Grouchy]

Um...I don't really know how to answer this, because I don't think the genre (or any genre) lends itself to a single concrete definition.
Actually, I think the slasher is the most concretely defined genre of all time.

[The Mike]

Either slashers continue to be awful movies wallowing in their own stupid cliches and childish structures, or they grow up, get intelligent, and thereby cease to be slashers.

I agree with this.

Case in point - Carpenter's Halloween is NOT a slasher film.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I agree with this.

Case in point - Carpenter's Halloween is NOT a slasher film.

Now this is interesting. Could you elaborate?

[megladon8]

So slashers aren't generally stories in which an implacable masked killer methodically stalks and slashes a number of young adults engaging in morally dubious activity until a final girl survives and defeats that slasher?

No, it's not.

That's a description of many slashers. That is not the definition of a slasher.

Let's say a group of intelligent adults (age 35+) are at work one day. Fully populated office building.

Throughout the film, each of the adults is lured to seclusion (bathroom stalls, elevators, offices with locked doors, etc.) and they are brutally murdered by a masked, knife-wielding murderer.

While we are given a look at the victims' relationships to one another, none of them were doing anything wrong. None of them were criminals or otherwise "morally dubious", yet this happened.

In the end, two of the men (and potential victims of the killer) manage to overtake him and kill him, saving their own lives.

You would say that isn't a slasher, because it's...

a) not about teenagers
b) doesn't have the characters presented as "morally dubious"
c) two people survive (and they're men, to boot)

?

Really?

I'm sorry, that's a pretty crappy definition. You're not going to convince me that all of those specifics have to be in place to make a film a slasher.

[Grouchy]

By "morally dubious", however, the slasher genre understands nothing worse than having sex.

One of the staples of the genre is that the killer represents guilt over having sex, that's why his weapons are usually phallic and he "impales" his female victims.

Of course, there are counter-examples.

[Bosco B Thug]

A slasher film is simple: periodic murders throughout the film, that are meant to be scary (which is where the various specific elements, if utilized - an unknown killer, a costumed killer, elaborate kills, etc. - come into play). (So I'm agreeing with meg)

Halloween should feel no slight is being made toward it by being categorized a slasher film.

[The Mike]

Now this is interesting. Could you elaborate?

I think Halloween (and Black Christmas, too) established guidelines for the slasher genre that hit big in the '80s, but the genre outgrew it(/them). If you look at how most people define the genre today, as films in which killers stalk lots of aimless teens who're partying and getting naked, and kills them in gory manners...there's not much there that applies to the original Halloween, which was made with an attention to character, little gore/nudity, and a minimal (again, compared to the genre's status at present) body count.

A good example of the divide between Halloween and 80's slashers is that the horror nerd in Scream, while all are watching Halloween points out that everything you need to know about scary movies (which we can all agree was meant as slasher movies) can be found in Prom Night...one of the later knockoffs that got the genre spinning in its true direction, not Halloween.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, the Prom Night comment was a different point in the film. It still works.

[Dead & Messed Up]

No, it's not.

That's a description of many slashers. That is not the definition of a slasher.

Let's say...

I'd have a lot of trouble calling your film a slasher. In fact, your proposed story reminds me very much of Lighthouse. In that film, there are many hallmarks of a slasher picture, mostly presented in the implacable faceless villain who centers most of the set-pieces. However, I don't consider it a slasher film. I'd call it a suspense-thriller, or simply a horror film.

In my view, it transcends the label. Which is where I think Mike is coming from with his consideration of Halloween.

[The Mike]

Yeah, it should be noted that I look at the term "slasher film" as a negative thing. Any horror flick worth its weight shouldn't need to be classified as a good slasher film, it should just be recognized as a good horror film.

[Bosco B Thug]

OK, I will say it probably is good to acknowledge that the term "slasher film" was created for that particular 80s influx of junk food horror cinema, and is in fact supposed to be derogatory. But it's good to apply it to things like The Leopard Man for kicks because it reminds us how little genre factors in quality.

Also, my previous definition is missing that it must be serial killings, by the same perpetrator(s), and ideally there's actual slashing involved.

[megladon8]

I'd have a lot of trouble calling your film a slasher. In fact, your proposed story reminds me very much of Lighthouse. In that film, there are many hallmarks of a slasher picture, mostly presented in the implacable faceless villain who centers most of the set-pieces. However, I don't consider it a slasher film. I'd call it a suspense-thriller, or simply a horror film.

In my view, it transcends the label. Which is where I think Mike is coming from with his consideration of Halloween.


I guess I'll just have to completely disagree with you, then.

I don't understand why the term "slasher" has to fit such a very narrow breadth of films.

[Spun Lepton]

This is a ridiculous argument, but I'm siding with DaMU on this.

The word slasher now has built in expectations for moviegoers and (probably) studios. You could attempt to make an "adult" slasher to break the mold, but it wouldn't break the mold. No, more likely it would end up straight-to-DVD or a box-office bomb.

Meg, you're so caught up in idealistic possibilities that you're ignoring the reality of it. You could make an "adult slasher" film, but the thing is, most horror fans are kids and teenagers. And most of the people who make slasher movies box-office successes are casual horror fans with money to burn. Something intelligent and adult like Behind the Mask isn't going to appeal to them.

[megladon8]

But that's not the argument at all, Spun.

DaMU is claiming that an adult slasher ceases to be a slasher at all.

I don't care if it ends up direct-to-video. That's not what we're talking about.

If a slasher film happens to not be about teenagers, it's not a slasher film? Sorry, no, that makes no sense.

[number8]

Eh, I think it's like calling a movie a western even though there are no cowboys in the film.

[megladon8]

I don't really know who you're siding with here, 8.

[Dead & Messed Up]

If a slasher film happens to not be about teenagers, it's not a slasher film? Sorry, no, that makes no sense.

That wasn't my point.

My point was that if slashers "grow up" (which is to say, they be mature, thoughtful, intelligent films), they cease to be slashers, because, to be considered mature, thoughtful and/or intelligent, they would have to abandon the cliches and structures that define slashers.

You claim that slasher is a nebulous, relative term and could be applied to a great number of films. I suspect that comes from the term itself, devoid of its historical context. After all, slasher simply implies that slashing will be involved.

I disagree. The term slasher is inherently tethered to the eighties-era cliches and tropes that define it. It was created in a specific time for a specific purpose, and it has specific strictures. If a film doesn't follow that mode, it ceases to be a slasher film.

That's why Severance isn't a slasher, and why Lighthouse isn't a slasher, and why your proposed example isn't a slasher.

[megladon8]

Fair enough.

I suppose I did slightly misunderstand what you were saying. You're talking more thematic content than superficial, which I would tend to agree with. I just (as I said) misunderstood and thought you had this weird qualifier where "adults =/= slasher".

However, I would still argue that the slasher isn't dead.

[number8]

I don't really know who you're siding with here, 8.

I don't like taking sides. I'm just saying, a slasher without dumb teenagers = a western without cowboys.

[amberlita]

I don't like taking sides. I'm just saying, a slasher without dumb teenagers = a western without cowboys.

I think most consider The Proposition to be a western but I wouldn't say there are any true cowboys in it. Or do cowboy equivalents count?

[Dead & Messed Up]

Fair enough.

I suppose I did slightly misunderstand what you were saying. You're talking more thematic content than superficial, which I would tend to agree with. I just (as I said) misunderstood and thought you had this weird qualifier where "adults =/= slasher".

All good. Been a while since we've had a good discussion. Nice to shake the cobwebs off.


However, I would still argue that the slasher isn't dead.

Oh, you'll get no argument from me on that subject. I just wish it were.

[Ezee E]

Cache is a slasher without the slashing.

[number8]

I think most consider The Proposition to be a western but I wouldn't say there are any true cowboys in it. Or do cowboy equivalents count?

You can certainly have westerns without cowboys. A lot of people would argue that the defining elements of the genre is not the cowboys, but the story of the frontiers and men using guns to defend their keep. Hell, you can do a western in modern-day Chicago, if you want to. I think Assault on Precinct 13 is kind of a western. Still, it's obvious that if you ask anyone to imagine a western, the first thing they come up with is a cowboy.

It's the same with slashers and dumb teens. I'd argue that people would imagine a camper or a babysitter before they go to the masked killer. You can make a slasher without teens, but you'd be missing the established fundamental ingredient of the genre.

[Ezee E]

For me, the first thing I think of a western is the frontier, and not necessarily a cowboy. You see one shot of Deadwood, and you immediately think Western, and there aren't even many cowboys in that.

[number8]

Haha, Jennifer's Body bombed.

[Pop Trash]

I just wanted to let ya'll know that I'm a slasher...

OF PRICES!!!

[Spinal]

Haha, Jennifer's Body bombed.

But was Megan Fox nice to the key grip's daughter? That's what I really want to know.

[Dukefrukem]

Wow it did bomb. Hahahahahaha awesome.

[Spun Lepton]

I glanced through the IMDb, but didn't find it. Anybody know what the budget was on this?

[number8]

$16 mil. So eventually it'll be profitable, I guess.

[The Mike]

This'll just help it become a cult classic.

[Spun Lepton]

This'll just help it become a cult classic.

There was never any doubt that it would have a cult following.

[megladon8]

Is this another case where there's been so much hype about an actress (Megan Fox here) getting naked in the movie, then it never actually happens? Or it like, shows brief side-boob or something?

[Ezee E]

Is this another case where there's been so much hype about an actress (Megan Fox here) getting naked in the movie, then it never actually happens? Or it like, shows brief side-boob or something?
Well, she was never even naked to begin with as it was a flesh-colored swimsuit. In the movie, I believe they only show her from half-boob up. Maybe neck up.

[number8]

Yeah, there was never a hype about her being naked. The set photos showed her in a swimsuit, so everybody already knew she's not going to be naked in the movie.

[eternity]

Karyn Kasuma is an awesome director. I was shocked at how gorgeous, tense, etc. this movie was.

Diablo Cody really can dive into the psychology of people better than 99% of writers.

However, she cannot plot a film to save her damn life.

And the character of Jennifer is a huge misfire, though Needy is terrificly written.

Nobody should ever make Diablo Cody tone herself down though, there's far too much "what does that mean? who is that?" with reference making. Teenagers know who Phil Collins is, you can reference him without it being awkward. Whoever told you otherwise is a liar.

Mallory is a tool.

The third act sucks.

8/10

[megladon8]

eternity, your review followed by a rating of 8/10 gave me a big "DOES NOT COMPUTE" feeling.

[Henry Gale]

Adam Brody has all the best lines, Seyfried keeps things grounded and enjoyable whenever she's on screen, aaaand Megan Fox isn't as terrible as most people had me believe she would be.

Too bad the rest is surprisingly boring and all over the place tonally. I wouldn't say I'm a Juno "hater", but the dialogue did irk me quite a bit in that. Thankfully the movie had other roles aside from Ellen Page, her friend and Rainn Wilson (who even in his one minute role leaves vibrations of awfulness long after he's gone) that allowed things to stay amusing and at times even be very effective. Here though, it all hinges on really underdeveloped relationship between these two girls, the script and direction hardly ever seem to have any idea how tons of moments are supposed to play and both the sinister and playful sides of this story end up feeling half as strong as they could have.

Not a complete waste of time, just a lot of wasted potential.

**

[Dukefrukem]

eternity, your review followed by a rating of 8/10 gave me a big "DOES NOT COMPUTE" feeling.

Yeh wasn't expecting it to be that high.

[Ezee E]

This was pretty awful. Things happen for no reason, casting for everyone outside the three main characters is awful, and it fails at being the "comedic horror" that movies like Slither are.

I'm just glad I got to see Paranormal Activity afterwards to forget all this.

[number8]

I think the thing that pisses me off most about this movie are the rave reviews claiming it as a feminist horror movie and subtly accusing the bad reviews of refusing to award that.

Fuck you.

[Ezee E]

I think the thing that pisses me off most about this movie are the rave reviews claiming it as a feminist horror movie and subtly accusing the bad reviews of refusing to award that.

Fuck you.
It is a feminist horror movie. But for what feminists hate about the horror movies that simply make women simple characters, it does here for men. Also it's not funny, scary, or good.

[eternity]

eternity, your review followed by a rating of 8/10 gave me a big "DOES NOT COMPUTE" feeling.
The good outweighs the bad. It's more like a 7 now (my ratings tend to decrease while my opinion stays the same, I'm just really bad at rating) but it's a noble effort. It's got all these great elements but then they mesh less than successfully.

[EvilShoe]

Fuck this movie for casting Lance Henriksen and then not giving him anything to do.

[The Mike]

Well, this wasn't terrible. Just kinda there.

I almost want to say I like it just based on the fact it didn't annoy me.