Oscars Expanding Best Picture Category to 10 Nominees

[DavidSeven]

WTF.

Oscars Expanding Best Picture Category to 10 Films (http://goldderby.latimes.com/awards_goldderby/2009/06/oscars-expand-the-bestpicture-race-to-10-films.html)


The next Oscars derby will be more heated – and crowded. The Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences just announced that the best-picture race will now include 10 contenders instead of five.

[Dukefrukem]

was just about to post this. You beat me by 1 min.

This is crazy though. I don't like it.

[Spinal]

Two times the bloated epics! Two times the paint-by-numbers biopics! Two times the manipulative dramas!

[Derek]

*awaiting Sycophant*

[Spinal]

By the way, they did used to do this in the 30s and 40s.

EDIT: Ah, the article covers that. Never mind.

[Raiders]

Well, Pixar has just been assured their first BP nom.

[number8]

"This way they won't give us shit the next time there's another Dark Knight."

[Sycophant]

What up, Derek?

[DavidSeven]

Hooray for turning a BP nomination from fairly meaningless to extremely meaningless?

[Mara]

That seems... optimistic.

[Dukefrukem]

"This way they won't give us shit the next time there's another Dark Knight."

Too bad they're a year late for the 1 time this will happen.

[Sycophant]

This is actually a pretty good idea. I'll fire off a letter of endorsement to the Academy right away.

[NickGlass]

"The final outcome, of course, will be the same - one Best Picture winner - but the race to the finish line will feature 10, not just five, great movies from 2009," said Sid Ganis.

This is hilarious! Good luck finding ten "great" films you actually have the balls to nominate.

[Spinal]

Ugh, does this mean Star Trek is going to get a nomination?

[Pop Trash]

Yeah I'm pretty sure Up will be one of those ten. Possibly Star Trek too.

[Raiders]

Ugh, does this mean Star Trek is going to get a nomination?

Hopefully.

[DavidSeven]

Eventually, something like 300 or My Big Fat Greek Wedding is getting nominated. Shit. Fan. Collision.

[Derek]

What up, Derek?

Fine, I'll do it myself.


:pritch: HOORAY FOR HOLLYWOOD!!!! :pritch:

[Pop Trash]

Eventually, something like 300 or My Big Fat Greek Wedding is getting nominated. Shit. Fan. Collision.

Yeah, I'm really not sure how great this is. I mean it's the argument about our yearly consensus: that somehow counting ten instead of five films will bring more interesting results, but in reality it will just bring more mediocre popular movies up into the muck.

[EyesWideOpen]

This is hilarious! Good luck finding ten "great" films you actually have the balls to nominate.

If you can't find ten "great" films in a year then maybe you should find another hobby.

[Sycophant]

Fine, I'll do it myself.

Oh, right.


:pritch: HOORAY FOR HOLLYWOOD!!!! :pritch:

_________________
(Fixed)

[Dukefrukem]

Yeah, I'm really not sure how great this is. I mean it's the argument about our yearly consensus: that somehow counting ten instead of five films will bring more interesting results, but in reality it will just bring more mediocre popular movies up into the muck.

This is correct. Last year was not a great year for movies to begin with. What other movies deserved to be in the best picture catagory last year?

1. Dark Knight
2. Gran Torino

[D_Davis]

I care a lot about this!

[Sycophant]

I actually think it's pretty likely while, yes, this will bring in a few more mediocre into the nominees, we'll see a few more critically successful, low-grossing indies. Sure, Iron Man would've gotten a nomination, but The Darjeeling Limited might have as well.

Not that it really matters. I had to think for about five minutes about what movie actually won last year, and I can only come up with three of 2008's nominees.

Also, because it's been mentioned and this is Match Cut, I'm pretty much contractually obligated to do this now, so sorry:

The Dark Knight << [something I like]

[DavidSeven]

The Dark Knight and Wall-E were the most publicized exclusions. They were probably the catalyst for this along with an effort to boost the industry in a down economy.

[Spinal]

This is correct. Last year was not a great year for movies to begin with. What other movies deserved to be in the best picture catagory last year?

1. Dark Knight
2. Gran Torino

Let the Right One In
Burn After Reading
Happy-Go-Lucky
Vicky Cristina Barcelona

and of course Repo: the Genetic Opera!. :)

[number8]

I guess this means we'll be seeing a lot more 'Nominated for Best Picture' boasts on DVDs.

I was just thinking that this is some kind of economic stimulus plan.

[Sycophant]

I guess this means we'll be seeing a lot more 'Nominated for Best Picture' boasts on DVDs.

This is probably as much the reason as anything else. More promotional capital for the studios.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Now the ceremony can be even longer. Woot.

[Dukefrukem]

Now the ceremony can be even longer. Woot.

Oh Jesus god no. That's another good point. They usually theme the whole show around the 5 movies nominated. They've got to scrap that idea now. No way are they gonna have 10 speeches prepared for 10 movies, or play all 10 movie themes, or etc etc.

[Sycophant]

Why does everyone hate how long the Oscar ceremonies are? It's the only televised film event I enjoy, and it's usually pretty entertaining, especially when I'm attending an Oscar party. The last few years have felt kinda shortish even.

[Watashi]

I really like the idea.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Why does everyone hate how long the Oscar ceremonies are?

...cause it's so long.

The past couple years I've just slept and woke up the next morning and read the winners.

It's very nice.

[NickGlass]

If you can't find ten "great" films in a year then maybe you should find another hobby.

Do you usually stop reading sentences halfway through?

[Watashi]

I wish the Oscars were like 5 hours. It's only once in a year. Let them wank themselves as much as possible.

[Watashi]

Also, what syco said earlier: Oscar parties. Nothing beats them.

[Fezzik]

This will also create more end of the year arguments, not less.

It's a lot easier to justify why "Movie X" is not one of the best five films of the year than it is to justify why its not one of the best ten.

It will only make fans of certain pet films even more angry...it'll be entertaining, certainly.

[Dukefrukem]

I wish the Oscars were like 5 hours. It's only once in a year. Let them wank themselves as much as possible.

If the Oscars were 5 hours long, no one would show up.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I wish the Oscars were like 5 hours. It's only once in a year. Let them wank themselves as much as possible.

If I wanted to watch a bunch of people wank each other off for five hours, I'd make a Herzog thread.

[Watashi]

Also, interesting note, one of the changes that the Academy was also going to make was to cut the animation category, but decided against it.

I still wouldn't be surprised to see Up given the cold shoulder this time.

[Watashi]

This will also create more end of the year arguments, not less.

It's a lot easier to justify why "Movie X" is not one of the best five films of the year than it is to justify why its not one of the best ten.

It will only make fans of certain pet films even more angry...it'll be entertaining, certainly.

I don't get it. Critics, AFI, etc. make yearly top ten lists, not top 5. It only makes sense for the Academy to do their own top ten.

[Derek]

I wish the Oscars were like 5 hours. It's only once in a year. Let them wank themselves as much as possible.

Seriously. If you're gonna do the lavish, gaudy, self-congratulatory bullshit anyway, go all out. I never find myself thinking "Thank God it's over" once it is and when it does get boring, I have a laptop.

[Derek]

If I wanted to watch a bunch of people wank each other off for five hours, I'd make a Herzog thread.

Huh?

[Watashi]

Seriously. If you're gonna do the lavish, gaudy, self-congratulatory bullshit anyway, go all out. I never find myself thinking "Thank God it's over" once it is and when it does get boring, I have a laptop.
I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or mocking me.

I'll assume both. :P

[Derek]

I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or mocking me.

I'll assume both. :P

I'm being serious. The Oscars are gaudy, self-congratulatory bullshit, but I usually end up watching it all and would have no problem if it was an hour or two longer. Especially if it meant not rushing the winners off the stage.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Huh?

Unrelated: the wanking has got to stop. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn6Z9djh8eA)

[Sycophant]

Especially if it meant not rushing the winners off the stage.

Yeah, that's the worst.

It seems to me that this year's ceremony was better about it.

[Dukefrukem]

Since I don't have a DVR or Tivo, I suppose I'm the only one here who would object to a 5 hour long Award show.

[Sycophant]

Since I don't have a DVR or Tivo, I suppose I'm the only one here who would object to a 5 hour long Award show.

I don't have those either. I don't really see what that has to do with anything.

I watch the whole damned thing. Commercial breaks and all (though there's a lot of talking & eating during the commercial breaks).

[Fezzik]

I don't get it. Critics, AFI, etc. make yearly top ten lists, not top 5. It only makes sense for the Academy to do their own top ten.

I'm talking about critics. I'm talking about fanboys, as in "How can [best movie EVAR] NOT be in the top ten?! The academy sucks!"

[NickGlass]

This is probably as much the reason as anything else. More promotional capital for the studios.

Obviously. As always, the answer to "Why would they do this?" (putting aside all the PR bullshit about "returning to our roots" and "allowing 10 great, worthy films to be honored") is money. It's all about money. The studios will finally get to stamp "Best Picture" nominee on their semi-successful hopefuls and watch their box-office rise; the Academy will make more money on their telecasts, since fans of 10 films will be watching, instead of just the fans of 5 (often quasi-"indie") films.

Of course, this is still a Faustian decision, because the Academy's reputation of exclusivity will plummet since being a Best Picture nominee will be more meaningless. If the whole world became "rich" then what the hell would "rich" mean?

It will be interesting to see how the Academy handles this. Will there be more foreign/star-less independent films, or more blockbusters? A boring balance of the two?

[NickGlass]

For the record, I want the Oscar ceremony to be 12 hours long. Then I could knock off a whole case of champagne instead of just three bottles.

[Derek]

For the record, I want the Oscar ceremony to be 12 hours long. Then I could knock off a whole case of champagne instead of just three bottles.

As if you'd go a Sunday afternoon without ingesting an obsene amount of alcohol...

[baby doll]

Why does everyone hate how long the Oscar ceremonies are? It's the only televised film event I enjoy, and it's usually pretty entertaining, especially when I'm attending an Oscar party. The last few years have felt kinda shortish even.It sounds like you enjoy the partying more than the show. Super Bowl parties, Oscar parties--either way, the show is basically irrelevant. Maybe if they expanded Law and Order to six hours and broadcast it only once a year, people could have Law and Order parties.

[Ezee E]

It sounds like you enjoy the partying more than the show. Super Bowl parties, Oscar parties--either way, the show is basically irrelevant. Maybe if they expanded Law and Order to six hours and broadcast it only once a year, people could have Law and Order parties.
You mean they don't?

[Spinal]

I don't think it would take that much longer to briefly talk about five more films. 5-10 minutes max? It will probably have no bearing on how long the show is.

[Watashi]

I know people who have Lost and BSG parties.

[trotchky]

NickGlass is 100% correct.


This is correct. Last year was not a great year for movies to begin with. What other movies deserved to be in the best picture catagory last year?

1. Dark Knight
2. Gran Torino

Synecdoche, New York
The Wrestler
Let the Right One In
Role Models
Rachel Getting Married
Wendy and Lucy
Happy-Go-Lucky
The Witnesses
Reprise
Splinter
A Christmas Tale
W.
My Winnipeg
Body of Lies
Step Brothers

Any of the above would have been better than the five movies that were actually nominated.

[Sycophant]

My friends and I used to have Adult Swim parties every Sunday night. I went as much for their company as I did for the shows, but we enjoyed the shows, too.

I enjoy the Oscar telecast.

[Ezee E]

I'd predict that these would've gotten in:
Gran Torino
Rachel Getting Married
The Dark Knight
Wall-E
Doubt

[number8]

Also, interesting note, one of the changes that the Academy was also going to make was to cut the animation category, but decided against it.

Now that I would wholeheartedly support.

[Russ]

Should just plan to take that Monday off from work. This should push the running time to 4-5 hours easy, right?

Is it only the BP category getting the additional nods, or are they bumping up the number of acting, directing, et al. nominations as well?

[Watashi]

Should just plan to take that Monday off from work. This should push the running time to 4-5 hours easy, right?

Is it only the BP category getting the additional nods, or are they bumping up the number of acting, directing, et al. nominations as well?
Just the BP nods.

[Winston*]

I'll just do what I did with the last Oscars. Come here afterwards and see what the funny parts are and youtube them. That way my Oscars are less than 10 minutes long.

[baby doll]

I'll just do what I did with the last Oscars. Come here afterwards and see what the funny parts are and youtube them. That way my Oscars are less than 10 minutes long.My Oscars are much shorter than that.

[Winston*]

My Oscars are much shorter than that.

Zero minutes isn't really much shorter than 10 minutes, unless you're a mayfly.

[Ezee E]

With the way they handled this year's Best Pictures, I don't even see the ceremony getting any longer.

[number8]

My Oscar is longer than all of yours, I bet. The stereotype isn't always true.

[Robby P]

It may provide a short term boost for marketing revenues but I wonder what the long-term effect will be. Increasing the number of contestants in the field diminishes the significance of a nomination and likely the perceived value attached to the Oscar trademark. I wouldn't be surprised if they returned to five nominees once the recession rebounds.

[Sycophant]

My Oscar is longer than all of yours, I bet. The stereotype isn't always true.

Aha! I just won five bucks! Some Asian men do have a love for red carpet preshows!

[Idioteque Stalker]

Zero minutes isn't really much shorter than 10 minutes, unless you're a mayfly.

:lol:

[origami_mustache]

haha this years best picture nominees are going to be so embarrassing.

[Watashi]

haha this years best picture nominees are going to be so embarrassing.
Because you've seen them all?

Potential Best Picture Nominees:

Amelia
A Serious Man
Avatar
Bright Star
Invictus
Informant, The
Lovely Bones, The
Nine
Precious
Public Enemies
Road, The
Shutter Island
Star Trek
Up
The White Ribbon
Where the Wild Things Are

[Rowland]

I think it's cool. I don't take the Oscars seriously anyway, so I just see it as providing us more food for discussion and casual filmgoers with more stakes, which might boost Oscar ratings and mainstream relevancy. The only negative side-effect I can imagine is if it results in studios producing even more Oscar-aimed middlebrow pictures.

[Ivan Drago]

Potential Best Picture Nominees:

Informant, The

This was shot in my hometown, and a mile away from my house. I can't wait to see it, and I'll be giddy if it gets nominated for Best Picture.

[Bosco B Thug]

I'm confused about whether this will make Oscar season worse or better, in it being the dread time of year where I have to pretend to not dislike bad movies.

[Ezee E]

Star Trek is really a Best Picture contender?

Even with 10? Nah.

[Watashi]

Star Trek is really a Best Picture contender?

Even with 10? Nah.
It's critically and publically well-recieved. The Academy seems to be making these types of changes to allow blockbusters like this a shot.

Star Wars, Jaws, Raiders of the Lost Ark were all nominated.

[Ezee E]

It's critically and publically well-recieved. The Academy seems to be making these types of changes to allow blockbusters like this a shot.

Star Wars, Jaws, Raiders of the Lost Ark were all nominated.
But those three were all original series. This is a reboot.

[Spinal]

Potential Best Picture Nominees:

Nine


There is no way that this does not get nominated.

[MacGuffin]

I'd be surprised if The White Ribbon is nominated for anything.

[trotchky]

I'd be surprised if The White Ribbon is nominated for anything.

True that.

[Dead & Messed Up]

But those three were all original series. This is a reboot.

And it's not even that great of one...

[B-side]

I kinda like the idea. Like Syco said, it might give the littler films a better chance at being in the spotlight. It's the Oscars, so of course there will be several run-of-the-mill films in the running, but the extra slots will allow for a wider diversity of films.

[Sxottlan]

I can see both good and bad in this. Most obviously downside is the continued devaluing of the award. I have a hard time remembering nominees from even three years ago. And while this effectively doubles the chances your favorite films will get nominated, it's not a garauntee that the Academy will suddenly go for the popular or critical hits. They could simply add five more middling manipulative pieces of Oscar bait.

How this will affect what studios make and how they market them won't be seen for awhile and I can't remotely predict how it'll go. Studios will probably take out a lot more ads in the short term. I wonder if they'll feel like they don't have to crank out a certain number of prestige films now? Could we actually see more blockbusters? Will this be the death knell of the indie branches of the studios? If there's a noticeable change, it'll be interesting to see which studio is the most award hungry.

But after all, ten slots still isn't that many when you think about it. Will there be attempts to "balance out" the kind of films nominated? Such a bizarre move, even though you can see what has led up to this.

And right now, yes, I do think Star Trek has a chance.

[Dukefrukem]

Star Trek is really a Best Picture contender?

Even with 10? Nah.

This would be fun to put to a vote.

[Skitch]

"This way they won't give us shit the next time there's another Dark Knight."
That was my first thought. Nonetheless, I approve.

[Pop Trash]

The Hurt Locker might have an outside chance. The reviews are outstanding and the Academy might view it as an "important" film.

[Ezee E]

The Hurt Locker might have an outside chance. The reviews are outstanding and the Academy might view it as an "important" film.
It's an action picture though.

It just happens to be a niche in the indie market, and apparently pretty great. Not sure if it's at all important.

Can't wait for it though.

[number8]

Well, they figured out a way to not make the Oscars longer.

They're dumping all the honorary awards to a separate untelevised event.

Also, it is entirely possible that we won't even see a Best Original Song Oscar:


The governors approved the Music Branch Executive Committee recommendation that if no song achieves a minimum average score of 8.25 in the nominations voting, there be no original song nominees and thus no Oscar presented for the category. If only one song achieves the required minimum, it and the song with the next highest score will be deemed the nominees. If two or more songs achieve the minimum score, they will be the nominees though no more than five nominees can be selected. Previously, the rules dictated that there be no more than five but no fewer than three nominees in the category.Wow.

[Ezee E]

I dig it. They seem to honor boring people anyway. The Golden Globes pick pretty good people.

[eternity]

BP contenders by studio:
20th Century Fox: Avatar
Disney: Up
Focus: A Serious Man
Fox Searchlight: Amelia, 500 Days of Summer
Lionsgate: Precious, Brothers
Paramount: Star Trek, The Lovely Bones, Shutter Island, Up in the Air
Sony: Julie & Julia
Sony Pictures Classics: Coco avant Chanel, An Education, Broken Embraces
Summit Entertainment: The Hurt Locker
Universal Pictures: Funny People
Warner Brothers: The Informant, Invictus, Where the Wild Things Are
Unnamed Bob Berney/Bill Polhad Company: Bright Star
The Weinstein Company: The Road, Nine

Based upon this, I'm just gonna take a little out of each cookie car and predict now:
500 Days of Summer (Fox Searchlight)
Amelia (Fox Searchlight)
Avatar (20th Century Fox)
Invictus (Warner Brothers)
Nine (The Weinstein Company)
Precious (Lionsgate)
Shutter Island (Paramount)
The Hurt Locker (Summit Entertainment)
The Lovely Bones (Paramount)
Up (Disney)

[balmakboor]

BP contenders by studio:
20th Century Fox: Avatar
Disney: Up
Focus: A Serious Man
Fox Searchlight: Amelia, 500 Days of Summer
Lionsgate: Precious, Brothers
Paramount: Star Trek, The Lovely Bones, Shutter Island, Up in the Air
Sony: Julie & Julia
Sony Pictures Classics: Coco avant Chanel, An Education, Broken Embraces
Summit Entertainment: The Hurt Locker
Universal Pictures: Funny People
Warner Brothers: The Informant, Invictus, Where the Wild Things Are
Unnamed Bob Berney/Bill Polhad Company: Bright Star
The Weinstein Company: The Road, Nine

Based upon this, I'm just gonna take a little out of each cookie car and predict now:
500 Days of Summer (Fox Searchlight)
Amelia (Fox Searchlight)
Avatar (20th Century Fox)
Invictus (Warner Brothers)
Nine (The Weinstein Company)
Precious (Lionsgate)
Shutter Island (Paramount)
The Hurt Locker (Summit Entertainment)
The Lovely Bones (Paramount)
Up (Disney)

Which Avatar is that? The Cameron one or the one my young daughter talks about constantly?

[Sycophant]

Which Avatar is that? The Cameron one or the one my young daughter talks about constantly?

Probably the one that comes out this year, which is Cameron's.

[lovejuice]

Which Avatar is that? The Cameron one or the one my young daughter talks about constantly?
your daughter has excellent taste.

[eternity]

The other Avatar is now just called "The Last Airbender". Cameron got Avatar all to himself.

[Adam]

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss47/adamstone20/00026165-2.jpg

[balmakboor]

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss47/adamstone20/00026165-2.jpg

God. Am I the only one who takes one look at this and throws up in his mouth?

[MadMan]

The Blind Side winning Best Picture would be utterly hilarious, but it won't happen. I'll just settle for the already brewing backlash against Avatar, which is happening now anyways. But that won't be as great, or as amusing, and then I won't be able to lable the Oscars as being a true joke instead of being simple irrelevent. Oh well.

[Derek]

I'll just settle for the already brewing backlash against Avatar, which is happening now anyways. But that won't be as great, or as amusing, and then I won't be able to lable the Oscars as being a true joke instead of being simple irrelevent. Oh well.

In English, please?

[number8]

In English, please?

"Avatar is stupid, but not as stupid as Blind Side. Me > Academy."

[Ezee E]

"Avatar is stupid, but not as stupid as Blind Side. Me > Academy."
Surprisingly accurate.

[MadMan]

"Avatar is stupid, but not as stupid as Blind Side. Me > Academy."Actually, I don't think Avatar is stupid at all. But other people think it is. Otherwise, that statement is spot on :lol:

[eternity]

Minimalist Posters of the 10 Noms (http://postavant.com/2010/02/this-years-best-picture-nominees-minimalized/)

[Ezee E]

Minimalist Posters of the 10 Noms (http://postavant.com/2010/02/this-years-best-picture-nominees-minimalized/)
The Blind Side one is awesome.

[MadMan]

Minimalist Posters of the 10 Noms (http://postavant.com/2010/02/this-years-best-picture-nominees-minimalized/)I think the one for Up might be my favorite. Just all around really cool looking ones-I'd rather see this be more of the actual regular style. Too often we get horrible posters such as the one for Valentine's Day that are cluttered beyond belief. Trying to please everyone in the movie, I suppose-all actor's have agents these days, it seems.

[Fezzik]

Minimalist Posters of the 10 Noms (http://postavant.com/2010/02/this-years-best-picture-nominees-minimalized/)

Yeah the one for Up is pretty awesome.

I really like the District 9 one, too.

[Dukefrukem]

Changes being made...

""will create a new category for outstanding achievement in popular film."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/academy-plans-three-hour-oscars-telecast-adds-popular-film-category-1133138

[Pop Trash]

Changes being made...

""will create a new category for outstanding achievement in popular film."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/academy-plans-three-hour-oscars-telecast-adds-popular-film-category-1133138

Hmm. I don't know how I feel about that. I know it's rare, but occasionally the "popular" choice also wins BP (Forrest Gump, Titanic, Gladiator, Return of the King). Idiosyncratic movies like Moonlight or The Shape of Water winning BP has been one of the more interesting developments lately about the Oscars.

What would be the threshold for "popular?" That it made 100M or more at the b.o.?

[Dukefrukem]

Hmm. I don't know how I feel about that. I know it's rare, but occasionally the "popular" choice also wins BP (Forrest Gump, Titanic, Gladiator, Return of the King). Idiosyncratic movies like Moonlight or The Shape of Water winning BP has been one of the more interesting developments lately about the Oscars.

What would be the threshold for "popular?" That it made 100M or more at the b.o.?

The way I read it, anything nominated for the popular award, wouldn't qualify for best picture. (e]ligibility requirements and other key details will be forthcoming)

[Ezee E]

The Popular Film Category is a terrible idea and everyone knows that it'll just be a forced award.

Removing the televised portion or at least editing it down, for some of the below-the-line categories is a good idea, despite what the purists says. I like seeing who wins, but the speeches are typically bone dry and offer nothing. Please get rid of needless musical portions that producers are in love with having too... "A Musical Tribute to West Side Story" always slows down any momentum if there was any to begin with.

Bring back spoofs of the main movies, more interaction with the stars, and no longer than three hours.

[Spinal]

This is an absolutely stupid idea and weirdly classist.

[TGM]

Also not a fan of the popular film category...

[Ezee E]

What the Oscars should really do is make the show earlier in the year so it's not clear who's going to win. It'll kill any appeal of the SAG, BAFTAs, PGA, etc... But that's fine, lol.

[Dead & Messed Up]

They need to accept the fact that a three- to four- hour telecast that (rightfully) honors the variety of artisans in cinema used to be a valuable commodity (sort of) but is increasingly irrelevant as a television tentpole spectacle.

Giving a "populist" award will be a bullshit handicap, and I won't be surprised if it goes the way of similar pointless appeals to younger viewers like having awards presented in the audience (to speed up the ceremony) or offering a younger pair of hosts (because what'll bring kid viewers to the show is James goddamn Franco).

[Pop Trash]

The Emmys aren't bad for what they nominate (I don't watch a lot of TV), but certainly the Oscars are better than the Grammys as far as awards shows go. People love to complain about them, but I mostly think they get a good consensus of the better English language (and foreign language for at least one category) story-driven films that are out there in that particular year. I think a movie like Lady Bird (to name one example) never would have made close to 50M at the box office w/o that awards push.

[Pop Trash]

What the Oscars should really do is make the show earlier in the year so it's not clear who's going to win. It'll kill any appeal of the SAG, BAFTAs, PGA, etc... But that's fine, lol.

I don't know, I sort of enjoy the backlashes and critical exchanges that happens between the Golden Globes and the Oscars. Plus, those months really help with the box office of these films, which I feel is the most positive aspect of awards season; that a tiny indie movie that might have made 5M if it was released in the Spring can suddenly make like 50M if released in December for awards consideration, and get people who otherwise stick to higher profile movies to go see it.

[Spinal]

For a group that supposedly hates Trump, this is such a Trump-like idea. Create division, value ratings over substance, flatter the unadventurous by reassuring them that Marvel and Disney movies tell them all they need to know about life. Jesus, it's not like the typical nominees are that challenging to begin with.

[Pop Trash]

For a group that supposedly hates Trump, this is such a Trump-like idea. Create division, value ratings over substance, flatter the unadventurous by reassuring them that Marvel and Disney movies tell them all they need to know about life. Jesus, it's not like the typical nominees are that challenging to begin with.

You're telling me Marvel and Disney movies don't tell me all I need to know about life?

[Irish]

For a group that supposedly hates Trump, this is such a Trump-like idea. Create division,

This sounds unhinged in a D_Davis way


value ratings over substance,

lol, dude, do you even LA?

[Grouchy]

Let's create a separate award for popular movies so we can go on to vote Best Picture for independent, challenging cinema like The Artist, The Lord of the Rings and Gladiator.

/ babydoll

[amberlita]

The way I read it, anything nominated for the popular award, wouldn't qualify for best picture. (e]ligibility requirements and other key details will be forthcoming)

???


Black Panther already was expected to seriously contend for competitive nominations and awards, and the Academy confirms, "A single film is eligible for an Oscar in both categories— Outstanding Achievement in Popular Film and the Academy Award for Best Picture."

[Dukefrukem]

???

Looks like I don't know how to read.

[Spinal]

This sounds unhinged in a D_Davis way



Thanks for your input.

[Irish]

Thanks for your input.

Anytime, Daniel

[Spinal]

What's hilarious is that you think Daniel comes across less reasonable than you.

[transmogrifier]

Ha, they might as well merge with the People’s Choice Awards or the Grammies at this point.

[Dukefrukem]

What's hilarious is that you think Daniel comes across less reasonable than you.

Look at the quote in my sig!

[transmogrifier]

What's hilarious is that you think Daniel comes across less reasonable than you.

Cue Irish indignation that someone just out of nowhere would pick a fight with him.

[transmogrifier]

If a single film can win both Best Picture categories, then what’s the point? This strikes me as a “Let’s make sure Black Panther gets something” move.

[Pop Trash]

Black Panther was already in talks for Oscar consideration, and would probably get it with the expanded BP nominations they put in about a decade ago. What sucks is that expansion was supposed to be for populist entertainment or perhaps genres that get looked over (sci-fi, horror), but it wound-up often only putting in middle brow snooze fests like The Darkest Hour or The Help or whatever.

[Skitch]

"...and the condescending award for the Best Film For Teh Pleebs And Sheeples gets thrown at..."

[Skitch]

Why not give us a Best Horror Film or Best Sci-Fi or such sub-categories?

[TGM]

Black Panther was already in talks for Oscar consideration, and would probably get it with the expanded BP nominations they put in about a decade ago. What sucks is that expansion was supposed to be for populist entertainment or perhaps genres that get looked over (sci-fi, horror), but it wound-up often only putting in middle brow snooze fests like The Darkest Hour or The Help or whatever.

They did that all of two years before abandoning it, in the years when Avatar and District 9 and Up and Inception and such were getting nominated. I doubt the Academy even remembers this themselves.

[Irish]

What's hilarious is that you think Daniel comes across less reasonable than you.

lol okay (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=6670)


Cue Irish indignation that someone just out of nowhere would pick a fight with him.

that (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?3223-The-Marvel-Sony-Superhero-Movies-Thread/page196&p=593482&viewfull=1#post593482) didn't last long, did it?

[transmogrifier]

lol okay (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=6670)



that (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?3223-The-Marvel-Sony-Superhero-Movies-Thread/page196&p=593482&viewfull=1#post593482) didn't last long, did it?

No, it didn’t. I assumed it would be a little longer before you picked a fight with someone and needed to be called out for it before you lapse into your standard “why always me?” shtick.

[Dead & Messed Up]

lol okay (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=6670)

TIL I am literally half as crazy as Daniel.

[Irish]

No, it didn’t. I assumed it would be a little longer before you picked a fight with someone and needed to be called out for it before you lapse into your standard “why always me?” shtick.

wait, ya mean that last altercation when you admitted (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?3223-The-Marvel-Sony-Superhero-Movies-Thread/page196&p=593513&viewfull=1#post593513) starting it? that's your example of me picking a fight? and then playing victim?


TIL I am literally half as crazy as Daniel.

no sideswipe intended

[Dead & Messed Up]

Best Picture winners that've made more than $200 million worldwide (unadjusted) since 1970:

Argo
The King's Speech
Slumdog Millionaire
The Depahted
Million Dollar Baby
The Return of the King
Chicago
A Beautiful Mind
Gladiator
American Beauty
Shakespeare in Love
Titanic
The English Patient
Braveheart
Forrest Gump
Schindler's List
The Silence of the Lambs
Dances With Wolves
Rain Man
Out of Africa
Rocky
The Godfather

Won't somebody please think of the Marvels?!

[transmogrifier]

wait, ya mean that last altercation when you admitted (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?3223-The-Marvel-Sony-Superhero-Movies-Thread/page196&p=593513&viewfull=1#post593513) starting it? that's your example of me picking a fight? and then playing victim?


No, I’m talking about this thread right now and your comment to Spinal. You know that. I know that. Stop deflecting the point with irrelevant links. I just wanted to point out that, as much as people take jabs at you that you take exception to (guilty, your honor), you are happy enough doing the same to others. That’s it. My point in a nutshell.

[transmogrifier]

Won't somebody please think of the Marvels?!

That’s pretty much what it comes down to. “Kids sure do love them comic book things. How do we get in business with ‘em?”

[megladon8]

*walks in*

*le sigh*

*walks out*

[megladon8]

That’s pretty much what it comes down to. “Kids sure do love them comic book things. How do we get in business with ‘em?”

Exactly what I was thinking.

“We need to start putting ‘Oscar winner’ on our BluRay covers!”

[Dead & Messed Up]

People are sort of hilariously pointing out online that BLACK PANTHER is likely the reason for this adjustment, which means the Academy just happens to be created a separate but equal category for 2019 where they may incidentally sequester a dominantly-black film.

There's not enough popcorn for this delightful shitshow.

[Ezee E]

The award for Best Black Panther Movie goes to... Avengers: Infinity War.

[baby doll]

I don't think it's an inherently terrible idea. Sunrise won an award for "Unique and Artistic Picture" at the first Oscars, and best foreign language film, best documentary (short and feature length), and animation (ditto) are all bullshit handicaps anyway. That said, if they're going to do this, they should cut down the nominees for Actual Best Picture to five. (Who has time to watch all the nominees as it is?)

I'm also strongly in favour of not televising all the technical awards. At the end of the day, it's a television show; if this helps move things along and makes it more entertaining, that's all that matters. I'd be much more into the Oscars if each of the nominees had forty-five minutes to prepare a plate of beef wellington for Gordon Ramsay and the person who makes the worst one gets voted out of the film industry.

[Ezee E]

(Who has time to watch all the nominees as it is?)


https://i.imgflip.com/1e5j4t.jpg

[Watashi]

Wait. Are they still keeping 10 nominees for BP after this change? Would be silly.

[Lazlo]

They did that all of two years before abandoning it, in the years when Avatar and District 9 and Up and Inception and such were getting nominated. I doubt the Academy even remembers this themselves.

I can't remember all of the particulars, but the first two years of the expanded field was decided through a different voting methodology that's since been changed. I've read some stuff here and there that it's the change in how the voting's actually done that's led to the middlebrow nominees compared to the more adventurous first couple of years. Something about preferential balloting and movies needing to have a certain percentage of votes to get nominated.

EDIT: Here's an article (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/academy-rewrites-rules-for-best-picture-oscar/) about the change when it was made in 2011. At least 5% of the voters had to have a movie as their top movie for it to be considered at all. So even if 100% of people had, for example, District 9 their top ten list, but less than 5% of voters say it's THE BEST MOVIE OF THE YEAR, it doesn't get considered at all. That constrains the field.

[TGM]

I can't remember all of the particulars, but the first two years of the expanded field was decided through a different voting methodology that's since been changed. I've read some stuff here and there that it's the change in how the voting's actually done that's led to the middlebrow nominees compared to the more adventurous first couple of years. Something about preferential balloting and movies needing to have a certain percentage of votes to get nominated.

EDIT: Here's an article (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/academy-rewrites-rules-for-best-picture-oscar/) about the change when it was made in 2011. At least 5% of the voters had to have a movie as their top movie for it to be considered at all. So even if 100% of people had, for example, District 9 their top ten list, but less than 5% of voters say it's THE BEST MOVIE OF THE YEAR, it doesn't get considered at all. That constrains the field.

It seems like just re-introducing their old voting method would solve this issue for them in that case, rather than introducing a new category. I didn't even know that about the voting. That honestly explains a lot.

[baby doll]

I've read some stuff here and there that it's the change in how the voting's actually done that's led to the middlebrow nominees compared to the more adventurous first couple of years.I'm not sure "adventurous" is the word I'd use to describe the Academy nominating big-budget blockbusters like The Dark Knight, Avatar, and Mad Max: Fury Road that were widely seen and got almost unanimously glowing reviews. Way to go out of your comfort zone, guys.

[Pop Trash]

They did that all of two years before abandoning it, in the years when Avatar and District 9 and Up and Inception and such were getting nominated. I doubt the Academy even remembers this themselves.

I seem to remember Mad Max: Fury Road getting a nomination, but yeah, sadly it became "now we can nominate twice as many costume dramas and Very Important Biopics! Hooray!"

[Pop Trash]

I'm not sure "adventurous" is the word I'd use to describe the Academy nominating big-budget blockbusters like The Dark Knight, Avatar, and Mad Max: Fury Road that were widely seen and got almost unanimously glowing reviews. Way to go out of your comfort zone, guys.

I'm positive it was created in the wake of The Dark Knight being snubbed for BP, despite almost near agreement of it being one of the better films of that year. The expansion was initially created for fantasy, superhero, sci-fi, maybe horror, populist genre type shit that might otherwise be ignored. Sadly, like I said, it later became a way to cram even more costume dramas and topical biopics, but maybe ones of lesser quality than the ones that would be nominated anyway with five BP spaces. If you think the Academy is ever going to go for the latest Claire Denis jam or whatever, I dunno what to tell you.

[baby doll]

https://i.imgflip.com/1e5j4t.jpgI've worked it out, and in the last five years, I've seen 19 out of 43 best picture nominees (on average 3.8 a year). Anything more than seven best picture nominees seems to me unreasonable.

2017 (out of 9):
Get Out
Lady Bird
Phantom Thread
The Shape of Water
Three Billboards outside Ebbing, Missouri

2016 (out of 9):
La La Land
Manchester by the Sea
Moonlight

2015 (out of 8):
The Revenant

2014 (out of 8):
Birdman or: (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
Boyhood
The Grand Budapest Hotel

2013 (out of 9):
American Hustle
Captain Phillips
Gravity
Her
Nebraska
12 Years a Slave
The Wolf of Wall Street

[baby doll]

If you think the Academy is ever going to go for the latest Claire Denis jam or whatever, I dunno what to tell you.That's definitely not what I was implying. My point is simply that choosing to nominate big-budget blockbusters like Avatar and Mad Max is not, in my view, very adventurous. To be sure, they're not conventional Oscarbait, but it's not as if the Academy was going very far out of its way, or bucking the mainstream consensus, in nominating them.

Incidentally, I don't think it's possible to be all that adventurous anyway. Whenever you go to the multiplex or attend a film festival or scan a streaming service for something to watch, your choices are already limited to a pool of films that have been pre-selected for you by other people. And even within that pool, it's not a level playing field: In the case of Claire Denis, she has an established track record and her films premiere at major international film festivals where they generate fairly extensive press coverage (especially when she casts stars like Isabelle Huppert and Juliet Binoche), so they tend to stand out from the pack. So if I decide to watch one of her films, I'm basically doing the same thing as non-cinephiles when they decide to watch a Hollywood blockbuster because they've seen ads for it all over the place.

[MadMan]

Best Picture winners that've made more than $200 million worldwide (unadjusted) since 1970:

Argo
The King's Speech
Slumdog Millionaire
The Depahted
Million Dollar Baby
The Return of the King
Chicago
A Beautiful Mind
Gladiator
American Beauty
Shakespeare in Love
Titanic
The English Patient
Braveheart
Forrest Gump
Schindler's List
The Silence of the Lambs
Dances With Wolves
Rain Man
Out of Africa
Rocky
The Godfather

Won't somebody please think of the Marvels?!

That list is longer than I expected. Also holy hell was I a fucking prick in 2010. Now I'm just a bitter asshole.

[MadMan]

People are sort of hilariously pointing out online that BLACK PANTHER is likely the reason for this adjustment, which means the Academy just happens to be created a separate but equal category for 2019 where they may incidentally sequester a dominantly-black film.

There's not enough popcorn for this delightful shitshow.

Yep. How fitting for an industry that is mostly liberal on the surface.

Btw I am siding with trans. Sorry, Irish.

[MadMan]

https://i.imgflip.com/1e5j4t.jpg
Haha I also watched all of the BP noms last year, too.

[Lazlo]

I'm not sure "adventurous" is the word I'd use to describe the Academy nominating big-budget blockbusters like The Dark Knight, Avatar, and Mad Max: Fury Road that were widely seen and got almost unanimously glowing reviews. Way to go out of your comfort zone, guys.

I kind-of chose "adventurous" sarcastically. Atypical-for-the-Oscars is what I meant and not that hard to infer.

[Grouchy]

That's definitely not what I was implying. My point is simply that choosing to nominate big-budget blockbusters like Avatar and Mad Max is not, in my view, very adventurous. To be sure, they're not conventional Oscarbait, but it's not as if the Academy was going very far out of its way, or bucking the mainstream consensus, in nominating them.
They're definitively adventurous films of wildly different quality. I think your view is simply prejudiced towards action / adventure genres. The Academy had consistently ignored genre cinema up until that moment save for a few exceptions and, like it has been said earlier in the thread, continues to do so. It expanded to ten films just to nominate more of the same.


Incidentally, I don't think it's possible to be all that adventurous anyway. Whenever you go to the multiplex or attend a film festival or scan a streaming service for something to watch, your choices are already limited to a pool of films that have been pre-selected for you by other people. And even within that pool, it's not a level playing field: In the case of Claire Denis, she has an established track record and her films premiere at major international film festivals where they generate fairly extensive press coverage (especially when she casts stars like Isabelle Huppert and Juliet Binoche), so they tend to stand out from the pack. So if I decide to watch one of her films, I'm basically doing the same thing as non-cinephiles when they decide to watch a Hollywood blockbuster because they've seen ads for it all over the place.
Do you watch random movies on a whim at film festivals? That's a good way to watch stuff outside the box.

[DavidSeven]

They have been over-correcting for a decade. Diluting the BP field. Expanding the membership. Preferential voting. All in response to anomalous events that are just bound to happen, no matter how much you try to manipulate the process. In the end, they've created more issues for themselves than they started with, and the ratings are still sinking to all-time lows. So, what was the point?

The Oscars lone brand is prestige. Deserved or not, that's what the public associates an Oscar with. Once that's gone, they have nothing. The loyal base will leave, and they will never win over the broader public in the current cultural and media landscape. A "Best Popular Film" category will probably be the Death Knell of the Oscars' brand and cultural relevance, which will just drive way more people at a faster clip. At best, the whole thing survives as just a televised "variety show" that has a kind-of, sort-of Hollywood theme.

[Irish]

anomalous events that are just bound to happen

This seems a contradiction in terms.

I agree that they're overcorrecting. The Academy's favorite genres (musicals, historical pics, biopics, epics, etc) are no longer industry staples. They're trying to recast what "Best Picture" means and doing it rather awkwardly.

The other part of the problem is distribution. They keep nominating small movies that have half the reach of Disney blockbusters. People tune out the awards show when they can't easily see the nominated films.

But then I also don't know what else they could do. (Except the obvious. Make better movies and fix distribution issues. ). I'd rather they try new things and make mistakes than stick with a formula that's clearly out of date.

[DavidSeven]

But then I also don't know what else they could do. (Except the obvious. Make better movies and fix distribution issues. ). I'd rather they try new things and make mistakes than stick with a formula that's clearly out of date.

There's nothing they can do. The only thing that is out of date is maintaining any sort of expectation that people are going to tune into anything on broadcast TV in huge, sustainable numbers.

We don't live in a world of shared experience anymore. Sports was the last vestige, but even that is slowly dying. 20 years ago, a handful of prestige pictures could dominate the cultural conversation in any given year. Even if large numbers didn't see the films, everyone was exposed to the same marketing about those films. We all saw the same commercial 10 minutes into Seinfeld. If there was a re-release or an extended run due to awards buzz, it was known. There were commercials publicizing the fact on the only three networks that people really watched in mass. Each film's significance was in the milieu. This drove audiences to watch awards shows that were focused on those few, important movies. Because you had to know what happened to participate in the conversation.

That era is over. The Oscars significance to the broader public was its value to "water cooler" conversations and how it supplemented what you knew about those handful of movies that everyone seemed to be talking about. But streaming and splintered interests have basically killed the water cooler conversation. It's just Game of Thrones and Trump tweets now. All the Oscars can do to retain any relevance whatsoever is to continue appealing to its base of serious film-goers. The numbers will continue to dwindle, but there's no stopping that train and they'll just drive way their base even faster by trying.

[MadMan]

As much as I would like the Oscars to expand the number of acting noms, babydoll makes a good point that they would just be filled with more Oscar bait. So I am in favor of cutting down the BP nominees even if it means that a film like Get Out is not included, as much as it pains me to admit. The horror crowd (which I interact with on Twitter a lot) mostly does not care about the Oscars, anyways.

You all know I think the Oscars have been mostly irrevelant for years now. I blame Chicago winning in 2002 for my line of thinking, and The King's Speech and Slumdog Millionaire just made things worse.

[MadMan]

Oh and Black Panther was not going to be nominated for anything major, anyways. BlacKkKlansman will ensure that, as will the Oscars continuing their policy of regulating superhero movies to smaller awards.

[Dukefrukem]

Well said David.

[baby doll]

They're definitively adventurous films of wildly different quality. I think your view is simply prejudiced towards action / adventure genres. The Academy had consistently ignored genre cinema up until that moment save for a few exceptions and, like it has been said earlier in the thread, continues to do so. It expanded to ten films just to nominate more of the same.

Do you watch random movies on a whim at film festivals? That's a good way to watch stuff outside the box.First of all, I would object to the idea that I'm prejudiced against action/adventure films per se. I think the first Terminator film, for instance, is brilliant. That said, I hasten to add that it--and Cameron's work generally, which I'm a fan of--is something of an outlier in the context of recent (post-50s) Hollywood cinema, which is almost completely aesthetically bankrupt. (The reasons for this are of course manifold but irrelevant to this discussion.) Cameron is clearly not as great a filmmaker as John Ford, Howard Hawks, or Sam Fuller, but alongside the Lucases, the Jacksons, and the Nolans of the world, his mastery of parallel action and delayed exposition mark him as one of the few contemporary action filmmakers who is even competent, much less inventive.

Of course, all this is irrelevant to the present discussion, which is not about the artistic merits of action cinema per se, but whether honouring a filmmaker like Cameron (who seems to me something of a giant, at least in relation to his Lilliputian peers) represents some kind of iconoclastic reordering of the critical landscape, which apparently Laszlo does not believe anyway.

As for watching random stuff at film festivals, my point earlier was that you can't watch random stuff at film festivals, not really, since all the films have already been pre-selected for you by a panel of programmers.

[Dead & Messed Up]

This seems a contradiction in terms.

Anomalous events can be both unpredictable (in their form and time of occurrence) and inevitable (in the abstract, as the byproduct of a complex system).

[MadMan]

Well said David.

I repped him for that post because its true.

[Grouchy]

Oh and Black Panther was not going to be nominated for anything major, anyways. BlacKkKlansman will ensure that, as will the Oscars continuing their policy of regulating superhero movies to smaller awards.
Eh, I haven't seen the Spike Lee joint, but my gut tells me Black Panther is much more of an Academy film, superheroes or not.

Of course David Seven is absolutely right, that's the core problem.

[Grouchy]

As for watching random stuff at film festivals, my point earlier was that you can't watch random stuff at film festivals, not really, since all the films have already been pre-selected for you by a panel of programmers.
Sure, but a large festival can program a lot of films. Not all of them are critical darlings. It's the place to watch random stuff that might be awesome.

[MadMan]

Eh, I haven't seen the Spike Lee joint, but my gut tells me Black Panther is much more of an Academy film, superheroes or not.

Of course David Seven is absolutely right, that's the core problem.

If Wonder Woman and The Dark Knight can't get major noms....but hey maybe you are right this time.

[Dukefrukem]

Good work everyone.

We did it (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/academy-postponing-new-popular-oscar-category-1140423).

[Spinal]

Good work everyone.

We did it (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/academy-postponing-new-popular-oscar-category-1140423).

Saving face on a stupid idea. This is like the Oscars' New Coke.

[TGM]

Good work everyone.

We did it (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/academy-postponing-new-popular-oscar-category-1140423).

https://media.giphy.com/media/J8FZIm9VoBU6Q/giphy.gif

[Ezee E]

What's even worse, and it was creatively covered up in the article, is the plan to only have 6-8 awards given on the telecast.

I'm all up for skipping on something like the short films and sound, but only 6-8? Wow... That's disappointing.

[baby doll]

What's even worse, and it was creatively covered up in the article, is the plan to only have 6-8 awards given on the telecast.

I'm all up for skipping on something like the short films and sound, but only 6-8? Wow... That's disappointing.The awards for the Cannes Film Festival are over in thirty minutes. That's the longest acceptable length for an award show.

[Lazlo]

What's even worse, and it was creatively covered up in the article, is the plan to only have 6-8 awards given on the telecast.

I'm all up for skipping on something like the short films and sound, but only 6-8? Wow... That's disappointing.

It says they’ll do 6-8 categories in the commercials, not that they’ll only present 6-8 on the broadcast.

[MadMan]

Saving face on a stupid idea. This is like the Oscars' New Coke.

Exactly. They did not think that one through.

[MadMan]

The awards for the Cannes Film Festival are over in thirty minutes. That's the longest acceptable length for an award show.

I prefer an hour, at least. Get in some jokes, a few good moments, then wrap it up.