Match Cut Directors Consensus - John Boorman

[soitgoes...]

Please rate the films of Mr. Boorman following these (http://www.match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=1598) guidelines. Thanks!

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/soitgoes22/JohnBoorman-712803.jpg

[soitgoes...]

Point Blank (1967) - 6.5
Deliverance (1972) - 8.5
Excalibur (1981) - 3.0
The Emerald Forest (1985) - 5.0
Hope and Glory (1987) - 8.5
The Tailor of Panama (2001) - 3.5

[dreamdead]

Point Blank -- 8
The Tiger's Tail - 6

Lots of gaps in his filmography for me...

[Sven]

dreamdead, I'm making it a goal to watch Beyond Rangoon and Tiger's Tail this week, so look out for an update (naturally, I will announce any additions).

Catch Us If You Can - 9
Point Blank - 9
Hell in the Pacific - 7
Leo the Last - 9.5
Deliverance - 8
Zardoz - I'm not sure... 6.5?
Exorcist II - 9
Excalibur - 9.5
The Emerald Forest - 6.5
Hope and Glory - 9
Where the Heart Is - 10
Beyond Rangoon - 8.5
The General - 8.5
Lee Marvin, A Personal Portrait - 7
Tailor of Panama - 8
In My Country - 7.5
Tiger's Tail - 8

[Ezee E]

Hell in the Pacific - 8
Deliverance - 9
Excalibur - 4
The Tailor Of Panama - 7

[Melville]

Point Blank - 5.5
Deliverance - 6.5
Excalibur - 2.5
Tailor of Panama - 5.5

[Derek]

Point Blank - 7.5
Deliverance - 7.0
Zardoz - 3.0
Exorcist II - 4.5
The Tailor of Panama - 5.5

[EyesWideOpen]

Deliverance - 8

[Spinal]

Deliverance - 8
Excalibur - 8
The Emerald Forest - 8.5
Beyond Rangoon - 8.5

[Stay Puft]

Point Blank - 8
Excalibur - 8.5

[Raiders]

Point Blank (1967) 9.5
Deliverance (1972) 7.5
Exorcist II: The Heretic (1977) 4.0
Excalibur (1981) 8.0
Hope and Glory (1987) 8.5
The General (1998) 8.0
The Tailor of Panama (2001) 7.0

[Ezee E]

Sven, explain yourself on Exorcist II.

[Spinal]

I'm making it a goal to watch Beyond Rangoon

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this one.

[Spinal]

From Ebert's review:

"Not much factual information about Burma is really conveyed (we understand the rulers are repressive, and we see that the dissident leader is brave, and that about does it for the politics). But by the end, as the obligatory final titles crawl up the screen, informing us of the numbers of Burmese who are dead and in exile, we think, boy, if they can treat Patricia Arquette like that, they really must be bad. Which is how political movies usually work."

:)

[Pop Trash]

Deliverance -9
The Emerald Forest -8 (fond memories of this one, it was one of the first R-rated movies my parents let me watch, along with Stand By Me I believe)
Hope and Glory -8

[Kurosawa Fan]

Deliverance - 7.5

I've seen The Tailor of Panama, but I literally remember nothing about it, so I'll refrain from rating it.

[thefourthwall]

Point Blank -- 8.5
Deliverance -- 8.5
Tiger's Tail -- 7

[Boner M]

Point Blank - 8.5
Deliverance - 7.5
Zardoz - 3
Excalibur - 4

[Yxklyx]

Point Blank - 8
Hell in the Pacific - 6
Deliverance - 8
Excalibur - 3
Hope and Glory - 7
The Tailor of Panama - 6

[Raiders]

I never realized so many people disliked Excalibur. That's... odd to me.

[Ezee E]

I never realized so many people disliked Excalibur. That's... odd to me.
I thought it was well-liked around here. Glad to see it isn't.

[Mysterious Dude]

Point Blank - 9.5
Deliverance - 8
Zardoz - 3
Excalibur - 5.5
The Emerald Forest - 7.5
Hope and Glory - 7
The General - 6.5

[Sven]

Glad to see it isn't.

Lame.

[Spinal]

I never realized so many people disliked Excalibur. That's... odd to me.

Yes, I am bewildered.

[Rowland]

Deliverance - 7
Beyond Rangoon - 5

[Ezee E]

Lame.

Still waiting for your explanation on Exorcist II.

[Qrazy]

Point Blank - 7
Deliverance - 7.5
Zardoz - 3
Excalibur - 5

[Spinal]

I think I'm going to watch Excalibur again sometime this week. I have to get to the bottom of this.

[thefourthwall]

Edited in Deliverance. It's one of those extremely well-made movies that I hope I never watch again.

[Derek]

I think I'm going to watch Excalibur again sometime this week. I have to get to the bottom of this.

You should watch Zardoz instead.

[Spinal]

You should watch Zardoz instead.

I have a copy of Excalibur. I don't have a copy of Zardoz. Plus, Sean Connery ... ew.

[Derek]

I have a copy of Excalibur. I don't have a copy of Zardoz. Plus, Sean Connery ... ew.

Have you not heard that there's a giant floating stone head that shoots shotguns out of its mouth?

But there's also this:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4481/zardoz1api4.jpg

Regardless, it simply must be seen.

[StanleyK]

Deliverance - 8
Hope and Glory - 7.5

[balmakboor]

Point Blank - 8
Hell in the Pacific - 8
Deliverance - 10
Zardoz - 8
Exorcist II: The Heretic - 8
Excalibur - 10
The Emerald Forest - 10
Hope and Glory - 10
The General - 8

[balmakboor]

Have you not heard that there's a giant floating stone head that shoots shotguns out of its mouth?

But there's also this:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4481/zardoz1api4.jpg

Regardless, it simply must be seen.

Zardoz is awesome. You're right. It demands to be seen.

[Rowland]

While we're here, anyone else feel that the middle act of Deliverance, commonly cited as its most memorable passage for obvious reasons, is in fact the least interesting stretch of the movie? Give me the dual banjos and simultaneously ominous and spirited adventuring of the first act, or the portrait of a displaced society literally being uprooted by the encroaching waters, best visualized by a haunting image of the Church being hauled away on wheels, over the raping hillbillies and Voight tediously climbing a rock wall anyday.

[Sven]

Edited with Beyond Rangoon. Very good! Don't think I've seen a film that good in a while. Spinal definitely gets rep.

[Rowland]

Edited with Beyond Rangoon. Very good! Don't think I've seen a film that good in a while. Spinal definitely gets rep.Meh. I thought it belonged firmly within the realm of the liberal white guilt picture, tacked onto a passable adventure yarn. And Arquette is an utterly generic presence as the lead.

[Yxklyx]

I think I'm going to watch Excalibur again sometime this week. I have to get to the bottom of this.

I just remember the second half being a major drag to the point that I didn't care anymore. It's really hard to sympathize with Arthur in this one.

[balmakboor]

Updated my rating for The Emerald Forest. It had been many years for that one and I'm glad I took another look. What a great movie.

[Bosco B Thug]

Point Blank - 8.5
Deliverance - 7.5

I am rearin' to see Exorcist II. It's in the near future, I can see it. Probably not in time for the Consensus, though.

[balmakboor]

I am rearin' to see Exorcist II. It's in the near future, I can see it. Probably not in time for the Consensus, though.

Here's my suggestion. Watch it as a Boorman movie keeping his themes and particular flavor of visual flourishes and love of big bold mythological shapes of ideas in mind instead of as a horror film sequel to Friedkin's film. Do that and you'll likely love it. Don't do that and you'll probably join the ranks of the disappointed.

My Michael Ciment book on Boorman has been enormously valuable to me lately. The best 25 cents I ever spent. That's for sure.

[Sven]

instead of as a horror film sequel to Friedkin's film.

I think it's quite valuable as a response to the first.

[balmakboor]

I think it's quite valuable as a response to the first.

In what ways? I do know that Boorman hated the original because of its "sadistic treatment of children" and he liked the script for II because its writer shared those feelings.

[Sven]

In what ways? I do know that Boorman hated the original because of its "sadistic treatment of children" and he liked the script for II because its writer shared those feelings.

First off, lemme say that I agree with you entirely about the film's strengths (are you listening E?): beautiful (as always), genuinely eerie happenings abound, an evocative take on the mythological (again, as always), and some truly unpredictable turns. I even agree that the reason most people probably do not like it is because of the overt horror of the surrounding films. Imagine a Texas Chainsaw Massacre sequel that pretty much nixes the brutality and ups the value of decency, you get the idea. However, I think that is precisely one of the film's strongest points: that it exists within the same universe and offers a positive though still haunting corollary to the nasty demonism of the other films. It was made in direct response, so denying its placement in the Exorcist canon is willful self-deception.

As for Beyond Rangoon, there is no doubt that the film can safely be placed among other white liberal feel-good movies about third world cultures. What sets it apart is its unwillingness to call to awareness. There are a couple of moments (I'm thinking of the student massacre in particular) where it just about loses its sure-footing and slips slightly into tacky-territory, but it mostly keeps its head about itself by refusing Arquette's character a position of political insight. As Ebert says in the quote Spinal pulled, we (and she) never really find out exactly what's going on in the country. As such, the film is about a wounded survivor of personal loss and the way she learns to contextualize her loss. One of the best moments in the movie (actually kinda choked me up a little) was when Aung Ko was telling her about the Buddhist perception of suffering as the only surety life offers, that happiness is a gift. And Arquette's face (and Rowland, I oh, so strongly disagree about her performance, which is easily the best that she's given) radiates a burgeoning hope at such a seemingly hopeless sentiment. Beautiful stuff.

And the camerawork! It's redundant to compliment the photography in a Boorman film, but this has some incredible shots. I'm so happy I didn't settle to watch this one cropped. That there's still no proper DVD is criminal.

[Sven]

Plus, even as a liberal guilt film, it's certainly not guilty of much. All the characters are strong people and give and take from one another in a fair and balanced fashion.

Then there's the idea, too, of "white liberal guilt" being a valid criticism, because is it not a valid perspective? It can certainly be tacky and offensive, but handled appropriately, it can be very instructive.

[Raiders]

I'm watching Zardoz before the week is over. I simply must.

[balmakboor]

Netflix lists Beyond Rangoon as becoming available in a few weeks. Is that not in the proper aspect ratio?

By the way, I have to say again that I thoroughly loved re-watching The Emerald Forest last night. I hadn't seen it since its first week in theaters.

This is the most I've enjoyed one of these director concensus things in a while. I've discovered a new favorite.

[balmakboor]

Where the Heart Is - 10


I'm really disappointed now that I never saw this. The reviews were sooo bad when it came out. It doesn't seem to be on DVD right now. Some day.

Edit: Nevermind. I swear Netflix didn't offer it just days ago. Now, it's at the top of my queue.

[balmakboor]

I think John Boorman is a truly reckless artist. He has big visions and stays amazingly focused on those big ideas even as he often fumbles the little details. He's clearly a passionate man, extremely passionate about filmmaking.

I watch his films and and am aware in every scene, even every shot, why I love his films so much, and why others despise them so. I marvel at how intertwined are the visual beauty, mythology, and bold ideas with what, by usual standards, would be measured as bad acting and clumsy dialog.

Incidently, more than any other, it was Pauline Kael's rave review of Excalibur that made me what to be a film reviewer.

[Sven]

I've discovered a new favorite.

You are awesome. Just so long as you remember that I loved him first. :)

[Derek]

You are awesome. Just so long as you remember that I loved him first. :)

If he changes his user name to fasozuboor, I will have to deem him the biggest fan on the site. :)

[balmakboor]

If he changes his user name to fasozuboor, I will have to deem him the biggest fan on the site. :)

Lately, I've been more like balmakboo.

[Raiders]

Lately, I've been more like balmakboo.

Would you like your name changed?

[balmakboor]

Would you like your name changed?

Can you do that? I'm used to sites telling me no way Jose.

[Derek]

Lately, I've been more like balmakboo.

Mohsen Makhmalbaf and, um, Gaius Baltar?

[balmakboor]

Mohsen Makhmalbaf and, um, Gaius Baltar?

Nope and nope. Although I love the former and consider this interpretation a fringe benefit.

[Raiders]

Can you do that? I'm used to sites telling me no way Jose.

http://www.cachebeauty.com/mirrors/Image_Hand_Mirror5.jpg

You look beautiful, dahling.

[balmakboor]

http://www.cachebeauty.com/mirrors/Image_Hand_Mirror5.jpg

You look beautiful, dahling.

Me likes the new clothes.

[Sycophant]

Dig the new digs. Any intent on telling us what those first two actually are?

[balmakboor]

Dig the new digs. Any intent on telling us what those first two actually are?

Oh sure.

Craig Baldwin - I've been really loving his way of weaving together weird, sci-fi, conspiracy theory inflected pseudo-narratives out of found footage. I've emailed back and forth with him a few times. He sent me a DVR of his latest movie Mock Up on Mu (which I think is crazy good).

Dusan Makavejev - WR instantly became a fixture in my top 10. Love that movie. I also recently loved Sweet Movie and The Coca-Cola Kid.

[balmakboor]

Also interesting is that both Makavejev's WR and Baldwin's Spectres of the Spectrum deal with Wilhelm Reich, someone I'd never heard of half a year ago.

[Qrazy]

altgodkub > fasozupow > balmakboor

[balmakboor]

altgodkub > fasozupow > balmakboor

Qrazy = Qrazy = Qrazy

So there. At least I'm changing, even if I'm de-evolving.

By the way, the only director out of the nine I have reservations about now is Godard.

[soitgoes...]

altgodkub > fasozupow > balmakboorI was going to say that there does seem to be a decline in quality.

[soitgoes...]

Qrazy = Qrazy = Qrazy

So there. At least I'm changing, even if I'm de-evolving.

By the way, the only director out of the nine I have reservations about now is Godard.
Change is good, but I can't condone leaving Ozu in the lurch like that. I'm going to have to change my name to soitgozu... just to keep the fire going.

[Derek]

By the way, the only director out of the nine I have reservations about now is Godard.

Now I'm certain you're devolving.

[Sven]

If he changes his user name to fasozuboor, I will have to deem him the biggest fan on the site. :)

:cry: :cry:

Well, I suppose a perfect 10 for The Emerald Forest does kind of make him the biggest fan. But until I hear about Leo the Last, Where the Heart Is, and Catch Us If You Can, I still consider myself the winner. In my heart.

[Qrazy]

Qrazy = Qrazy = Qrazy

So there. At least I'm changing, even if I'm de-evolving.

By the way, the only director out of the nine I have reservations about now is Godard.

I am also changing. My psychosis has grown deeper over the years!

[Sycophant]

4 pages and no one has made a joke about how Boorman is boorish yet?

My, my.

[Bosco B Thug]

Here's my suggestion. Watch it as a Boorman movie keeping his themes and particular flavor of visual flourishes and love of big bold mythological shapes of ideas in mind instead of as a horror film sequel to Friedkin's film. Do that and you'll likely love it. Don't do that and you'll probably join the ranks of the disappointed. Duly noted.


Imagine a Texas Chainsaw Massacre sequel that pretty much nixes the brutality and ups the value of decency, you get the idea. However, I think that is precisely one of the film's strongest points: that it exists within the same universe and offers a positive though still haunting corollary to the nasty demonism of the other films. That sounds awesome. Sounds, anyway.

Probably a good sign for Exorcist II that I don't like Friedkin's film very much.

[balmakboor]

Just watched Deliverance for the first time in about a decade. Adjusted my rating upward.

[Sven]

Netflix lists Beyond Rangoon as becoming available in a few weeks. Is that not in the proper aspect ratio?

June 30th!!!! It appears that finally the film is being released. I can only assume the aspect ratio is proper, as I'm gonna pull a MadMan here and confess to my laziness to look it up myself.

[balmakboor]

Does Netflix keep an eye on Match Cut? It seems that every time I look, they have added more films by our director of the week to instant watch. Almost everything by Boorman is available for instant gratification now. That's how I saw Deliverance last night. I think a re-watch of Point Blank and a first watch of Hell in the Pacific are next.

[Ezee E]

Does Netflix keep an eye on Match Cut? It seems that every time I look, they have added more films by our director of the week to instant watch. Almost everything by Boorman is available for instant gratification now. That's how I saw Deliverance last night. I think a re-watch of Point Blank and a first watch of Hell in the Pacific are next.
Isn't it great? Nearly his entire filmography is on instant watch.

[Ezee E]

Watching Hell in the Pacific, and I demand that more people watch this. It's awesome.

Seriously, a Mifune-Marvin matchup for the entire movie. An incredible score. Showdown after showdown. Hope this doesn't end bad.

[Ezee E]

Watching Hell in the Pacific, and I demand that more people watch this. It's awesome.

Seriously, a Mifune-Marvin matchup for the entire movie. An incredible score. Showdown after showdown. Hope this doesn't end bad.
D'oh. Sure came close to having a great ending.

Updated with ranking.

[Sven]

Updated with Tiger's Tail. What a strange, lovely movie. Curious twisty thing... a sort of whimsical character drama psycho-thriller with a dash of espionage and poetics of the human condition. Still, I can't quite wrap my mind around it's application of Doppelganger ambiguities, in terms of character. Weird picture.

[Sven]

Oh yeah, and whoever thought of casting Kim Cattrall should probably never work in this town again. Unless it was Boorman. In which case, :face palm:

[balmakboor]

D'oh. Sure came close to having a great ending.

Updated with ranking.

I just watched Hell in the Pacific and updated my ratings. I thought the ending worked, but then I read this and started to wonder how else it could've worked better:

Included on the dvd is the original (and vastly superior) ending as a bonus feature.

[Ezee E]

I just watched Hell in the Pacific and updated my ratings. I thought the ending worked, but then I read this and started to wonder how else it could've worked better:

Included on the dvd is the original (and vastly superior) ending as a bonus feature.
What was the original ending? I saw it on Instant Watch.

[balmakboor]

What was the original ending? I saw it on Instant Watch.

That's what I'm wondering. I saw it on Instant Watch also. Sven?

[Sven]

Original: walk apart, cut to black.
"Corrupted": argue, bomb explodes

[Sven]

Added Lee Marvin, A Personal Portrait. Awesome musical sequences and some pretty fun stories and clips. I like the way it conflates his life and work. Solid.

[Winston*]

Halfway through Excalibur. This movie is terrible.

[Winston*]

I've had enough. Movie's going off. I can't stand the acting.

[Boner M]

I can't stand the acting.
It's very proto-300 imo.

[Sven]

It's official: Aussies and Kiwis don't know nuthin'.

[dreamdead]

Updated with Tiger's Tail. What a strange, lovely movie. Curious twisty thing... a sort of whimsical character drama psycho-thriller with a dash of espionage and poetics of the human condition. Still, I can't quite wrap my mind around it's application of Doppelganger ambiguities, in terms of character. Weird picture.

Weird for me precisely because it's so direct and on the nose about its consideration of Irish politics, and the upper class in particular. Gleason's son in the film is simply too overt in the investment of politics for me, so that while his girlfriend is interesting, and the absence of the father/son dynamics is interesting, the film is too abruptly considered. When Boorman slows down and suggests nonverbal ideas, such as the connection between the two brothers at the waterside, the film generates some juxtapositions that work; but all too often it remains blatant and didactically considered.

[Sven]

Weird for me precisely because it's so direct and on the nose about its consideration of Irish politics, and the upper class in particular. Gleason's son in the film is simply too overt in the investment of politics for me, so that while his girlfriend is interesting, and the absence of the father/son dynamics is interesting, the film is too abruptly considered. When Boorman slows down and suggests nonverbal ideas, such as the connection between the two brothers at the waterside, the film generates some juxtapositions that work; but all too often it remains blatant and didactically considered.

I can get down with this assessment, although I think the film sidesteps "on the nose"-ness about Irish politics, at least insofar as these politics have been disseminated in the west. Nowhere was the IRA to be found, and I think the film's illustration of the economic divide between classes was told mostly through Gleason's characterization, as opposed to any didactic dialogue (Gleason rarely acknowledges his son's commentary with a direct response). I will concede, however, that the son was a pretty strangely-written device, though I think his role is probably less flat than you imply, if only because he's subsumed by Gleason's metamorphosis--he's a character I can accept as a peripheral development of the film's central essence, much like his mother's jealous husband (what is he jealous about? nudge nudge) and Cattrall, who was convincing in her sexual transformation, if nothing else (definitely not that accent).

Still, I agree when you say that the film is strongest when Boorman "slows down and suggests nonverbal ideas." All his films are strongest when that happens. He's not a terribly savvy screenwriter, but the guy thinks in images like nobody else.

I don't know if that makes any sense. It's nice that others have seen this, though. It's an odd one to have as one of only two films by Boorman. You best step up, son.

[soitgoes...]

Busy day. I'll try and tally this later tonight, maybe tomorrow.

[soitgoes...]

Results:
Hope and Glory - 8.357 (7)
Point Break - 8.000 (14)
Deliverance - 7.947 (19)
The General - 7.750 (4)
The Emerald Forest - 7.583 (6)
Hell in the Pacific - 7.250 (4)
The Exorcist II - 6.375 (4)
The Tailor of Panama - 6.188 (8)
Excalibur - 5.917 (12)
Zardoz - 4.417 (6)
Average - 6.978

The Rest
Where the Heart Is - 10 (1)
Leo the Last - 9.5 (1)
Catch Us If You Can - 9.0 (1)
In My Country - 7.5 (1)
Beyond Rangoon - 7.333 (3)
The Tiger's Tail - 7.0 (3)
Lee Marvin, A Personal Portrait - 7.0 (1)

Most Seen - Sven
Most Loved - altozuboor
Most likely not to love Zardoz or The Exorcist II if they were to watch them - Melville

[Raiders]

The Exorcist II - 6.375 (4)
Excalibur - 5.917 (12)


:frustrated:

[soitgoes...]

:frustrated:
I haven't seen The Exorcist II, but I do agree that Excalibur is still rated too high.




:P

[Boner M]

Point Break - 8.000 (14)
The scene where Lee Marvin fires his gun skyward in despair was awesome.

[balmakboor]

Saw Where the Heart Is last night. Really beautiful film -- as is always the case with Boorman -- and some nice, offbeat performances. It has a creative way of saying that one's house may be anywhere and that "anywhere" will change throughout your life, but it's the hearts of the family members that make it a beautiful home. The script takes something of a risk by exploring matters of the heart by wearing its heart way out on its sleeve. It think it largely worked although, as the above description probably sounds, it occasionally pushed my limits for sentimentality, especially during the final scene.

Kind of a strange moment early on. The titles have a New York City skyline being gradually painted in by the hand of an unseen painter. The final brushstrokes add color to the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center. Then, the very first images of the film proper are of buildings being demolished, falling straight down on their footprints. Spooky.

I'd give the film an 8.