Tetro (Francis Ford Coppola, 2009)

[Watashi]

Trailer
(http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/05/02/francis-ford-coppolas-tetro-movie-trailer/#more-26923)
Looks absolutely gorgeous.

[Sxottlan]

Looks fantastic. And it's opening next month already? Nice.

I should probably rent Youth Without Youth some day.

[Watashi]

More people should watch this.

[Acapelli]

More people should watch this.
definitely

[chrisnu]

Wow. I definitely didn't expect something that promising.

[Spinal]

Like the cast. Can't say that the premise does much for me.

[Raiders]

Oh my. That looks positively wonderful.

[[ETM]]

Like the cast. Can't say that the premise does much for me.

Ditto on both counts. It sounds "old fashioned", like something that would have worked much better 20 years ago, but that's not a problem if the movie pays off on the performance and visual level. It certainly seems to be the case.

[Sven]

I think it looks kind of dull...

[Qrazy]

Visuals look fairly good. Sound design seems mediocre. I'm anticipating, but not majorly.

[Amnesiac]

Sound design seems mediocre.

Why?

[Qrazy]

Why?

Could (hopefully) just be the trailer but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of external (universe building) audio. Aside from specific sound effects (guitar being run over, glass breaking) it's almost entirely vocal audio. For instance the scene where the guitar is run over there are all these cars around but almost no traffic noises. There are a number of similar instances throughout the trailer.

[[ETM]]

I've also noticed that. I wondered why it sounded like a stage play at first, especially the opening scene.

[Amnesiac]

Interesting. Might just be the trailer, or it could be artistically motivated.

[Pop Trash]

Could be good. Looks kinda Jarmuschy.

[[ETM]]

Could be good. Looks kinda Jarmuschy.

Kinda, but it's too flashy. Tries to not look as polished as it is.

[Raiders]

;158740']Kinda, but it's too flashy. Tries to not look as polished as it is.

I have no idea what this means. I doubt Coppola is going for Jarmusch, so what makes you think it is trying to be any less flashy or polished? Coppola, ever since burying himself into Zoetrope, has been pretty flashy. Brilliantly so most of the time, too.

[D_Davis]

Wow - that looks incredible.

[[ETM]]

I have no idea what this means. I doubt Coppola is going for Jarmusch, so what makes you think it is trying to be any less flashy or polished? Coppola, ever since burying himself into Zoetrope, has been pretty flashy. Brilliantly so most of the time, too.

I see where Pop Trash is coming from in some ways, but not quite, precisely because of how polished it is, even though the setting, black and white, and other visual elements evoke a different film-making style. Perhaps "trying to" was the wrong choice of words because it suggests intent. Of course Coppola isn't going for Jarmusch, but I see how it's kind of a Jarmusch film with a broader scope and meticulous polish.

Sheesh, I'm not making a statement, just making conversation here, don't go for weapons right away, man.

[Raiders]

;158764']I see where Pop Trash is coming from in some ways, but not quite, precisely because of how polished it is, even though the setting, black and white, and other visual elements evoke a different film-making style. Perhaps "trying to" was the wrong choice of words because it suggests intent. Of course Coppola isn't going for Jarmusch, but I see how it's kind of a Jarmusch film with a broader scope and meticulous polish.

Sheesh, I'm not making a statement, just making conversation here, don't go for weapons right away, man.

I wasn't firing back to be harsh. Just disagreed with your detective work there, Lou.

[megladon8]

Looks good.

Can't f'ing stand Vincent Gallo, but it doesn't look like he's playing his smug self here as he so often does, so it could be good.

Definitely looks pleasing to the eye.

[[ETM]]

I wasn't firing back to be harsh. Just disagreed with your detective work there, Lou.

Well, do you still disagree? I half-assed the first post indeed.

[Spinal]

I feel like I shouldn't like Vincent Gallo, yet I've found him to be a compelling on-screen figure in the three major roles I've seen him in (Trouble Every Day, The Brown Bunny and Buffalo '66).

[megladon8]

I feel like I shouldn't like Vincent Gallo, yet I've found him to be a compelling on-screen figure in the three major roles I've seen him in (Trouble Every Day, The Brown Bunny and Buffalo '66).


Buffalo '66 was a great movie, but I don't think it was just him. Actually I found Christina Ricci kind of hypnotizing there - not in a sexual/attractive way, I mean I found her character and her performance to be something really special in a low-key way.

Beautifully shot, too.

Vincent Gallo is certainly a talented and intelligent guy, I just find him to be like if Sean Penn was in a permanent bad mood and didn't bathe.

[Winston*]

if Sean Penn was in a permanent bad mood
?

[megladon8]

?


Worse than usual. :)

[Spinal]

Vincent Gallo is certainly a talented and intelligent guy, I just find him to be like if Sean Penn was in a permanent bad mood and didn't bathe.

One of the reviews for Trouble Every Day said that he was the only guy who could step out of a shower and look like he needed a shower. Can't remember who that was.

EDIT: Ah, it was Mick LaSalle (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/04/05/DD66011.DTL).

[Ezee E]

Awesome.

Also, regarding Vincent Gallo, I've met him, and boy, he must be one of the most arrogant people I've ever met. Impossible to describe really.

[Grouchy]

I saw Gallo once eating an empanada while this was still on production. Yelled "Vincent" at him and kept walking. He didn't respond.

This looks interesting. It's weird seeing streets so familiar to me shot under the lens of Coppola. I really hope the film doesn't become a tourist's guide, though. But I'm confident it won't.

This trailer alone shows how little of dad's visual talent Sofia Coppola inherited.

[Ezee E]

The last two films have shown a visual style that Coppola has never really used before. I like it a ton.

[Milky Joe]

I think it looks kind of dull...

I kind of agree. It has a somewhat interesting look, but interesting is not synonymous with good or worth my 8 dollars.

[right_for_the_moment]

The first three minutes are up...

http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/tetro/

It looks beautiful imo

[balmakboor]

Looks great. Of course, Youth Without Youth looked great also, but was a bit of a chore to sit through.

This reminds me though that I bought the Godfather Trilogy on Blu-ray about two months ago and still haven't made the time to watch it.

[Ezee E]

balmakboor, you should do a thread about your "ideas" of how certain movies end. Your favorite ones or something.

[balmakboor]

balmakboor, you should do a thread about your "ideas" of how certain movies end. Your favorite ones or something.

You mean like Up?

Anyway, I wandered over to imdb to look up something -- I forget what -- when I saw something called Tetro and recognized Vincent Gallo. So I clicked a link for the trailer and moments later was shocked to discover that a Francis Coppola film had totally snuck up on me. I do think the trailer looks pretty great. I guess reviews out of Cannes have fallen below the rotten line though, so it probably isn't my long hoped for big comeback for the man. Damn it.

Then I noticed that Salles is doing On the Road. That should be cool.

[Ezee E]

You mean like Up?

Anyway, I wandered over to imdb to look up something -- I forget what -- when I saw something called Tetro and recognized Vincent Gallo. So I clicked a link for the trailer and moments later was shocked to discover that a Francis Coppola film had totally snuck up on me. I do think the trailer looks pretty great. I guess reviews out of Cannes have fallen below the rotten line though, so it probably isn't my long hoped for big comeback for the man. Damn it.

Then I noticed that Salles is doing On the Road. That should be cool.
Yeah, I mean like Up.

Also, I never take Cannes review to heart because there are so many of them that get negative-bad reviews, come out later, and have generally good-great reviews.

Very curious as to how On the Road will work out as well. Wasn't sure if that was actually happening still.

[Raiders]

I'm still dying to see this, if only because I also love early 80s Coppola and this seems as though it may be similar to his films from that period (Rumble Fish most obviously).

Oh, and Salles is just about the most milquetoast director alive. Not excited for his adaptation.

[MacGuffin]

Hoberman loves it.

[Beau]

Well, I really liked it. I don't know how much it works as a psychological foray, and actually, I think most of the psychological motivations on display are on the simple side (this happened in the past, therefore emotional problem, and so on). To respond to earlier posts, it does feel like a stage play at times, but I do think it's an intentional conceit - there is a heavy dose of meta-gymnastics here, so expect to question whether or not what we're watching is what is really happening to the characters, of it is a performance that the characters need to carry out in order to expel their demons. Art is a sort of healing process, and apparently, it bleeds into life itself. Life is a stage play, or maybe, the need to insert real life into a stage play (the story is about two men shaping a play about their family's past) means that the stage play is inadvertently inserted into real life. You'll notice there's a spot-light motif throughout, which is connected to automobile head-lights and accidents - lights shine on actors inside of the stage, lights shine on our protagonist outside of the stage. There's doubling too, with Tetro and Benjamin switching places, sharing places, fighting for places, though this doubling is not of the Persona-brand (two is one), but more along the lines of repeated-blood-tradition, as befitting the whole family-pains storyline.

Again, I am not sure how complex or shallow all of this is, but I believe the movie feels better than it thinks. It's so blunt at times (he is now remembering this moment in his past, he is afraid it is happening all over again - no, really, here's a flashback) that what it all means takes a backseat to the visual emotion-show. This is why I like to think of the film in the terms I outlined above - it is as if the characters need to immediately conjure up art and performance (there are many imagined sequences - sometimes realistic, sometimes surreal) in order to deal with their lives. This is particularly blatant near the end, where Benjamin processes new information about his family (or escapes a problematic situation momentarily) by closing his eyes and dreaming up a dance routine. What I mean to say is that, right now, twelve hours after watching the film, I think it is less about depth and more about the rhythms of the surface (slow at first, almost like an observational asian film, then increasingly expressionistic, culminating in Coppola going into Fellini-mode late into the proceedings - there is one shot of Carmen Maura surrounded by lights, cameras, and reporters that looks like a lost outtake from La Dolce Vita) and what this surface tells us about the protagonists, their emotions, and how the protagonists visualize their emotions. There are plenty of beautiful shots (beautifully evocative - it's not just a series of desktop wallpapers, though I'm sure that end's covered too) and even different visual styles (imagined sections, whether completely imagined or reconstructed past, are all in color and in a different aspect ratio, which is confusing, I guess, but sure does make for some whiplash-inducing juxtaposition with the wider black-and-white style that dominates most of the screentime). The acting is good all-around, which it needs to be, because the camera loves to look at faces and it almost always expects for those faces to communicate something, and the one who communicates the most is Maribel Verdú, who is really great here.

On a local note, and I'm sure this will interest Grouchy, the movie is not a tourist guide. We see very few landmarks, and the only postcard-shot is the apparently required image of the obelisk. It's similar to Happy Together. We get very interesting and appropriate location use, and then we get the obelisk. Gotta love the obelisk, and really, who doesn't love the obelisk?

[Beau]

Are first-impressions allowed here? I just searched for a thread on Tetro, found this, did not look to see which forum it was in, though it was General Film Discussion. Apologies if the above is unwanted. I'll repost the post when the dicussion thread appears in the aforementioned. Anyhow, to be more in keeping with the purposes of this thread, the movie is playing at the Landmark in Los Angeles. I'm not sure about availability elsewhere. I am assuming it's been released in the usual limited art-house venues, though.

EDIT: Apparently, it's out in only two theaters in the United States, the other being NYC's Sunshine Cinema.

[Qrazy]

This is the place for your thoughts. The upcoming film threads usually just get moved to the general discussion forum once they're released.

Did you see/how did you feel about Youth without Youth?

[Beau]

This is the place for your thoughts. The upcoming film threads usually just get moved to the general discussion forum once they're released.

Did you see/how did you feel about Youth without Youth?

I have not seen Youth Without Youth. For reference, though, I tend to dig Coppola's operatic excesses, not because I necessarily find them meaningful, but because I find them delicious. Dracula and The Cotton Club have plenty of flaws, but I like them, and Tetro has a bit of both (in particular, it has the fact-reality-meshing dance interludes from the movie with Diane Lane looking like Diane Lane and Richard Gere being Richard Gere). It is better than either, though. It's more consistent. It's not (too) campy like Dracula and it's not in dire need of musical spectaculars when characters are reading the script like The Cotton Club.

[MacGuffin]

I'm seeing this Friday with Coppola et al. in attendance.

[trotchky]

Slant Magazine gave this ***1/2 and they also have an interview up with Coppola. I don't mean to imply that they trade high marks for one-on-one time with high profile directors but...wait, yes I do.

Not that this has any bearing on the film's quality, but on the quality of Slant as a review site.

[Raiders]

Slant Magazine gave this ***1/2 and they also have an interview up with Coppola. I don't mean to imply that they trade high marks for one-on-one time with high profile directors but...wait, yes I do.

Not that this has any bearing on the film's quality, but on the quality of Slant as a review site.

Yeah, all ten or so interviews over the past few years really calls into question their integrity.

:rolleyes:

Wonder why Guillermo Del Toro bothered since he didn't have a film in-release for Slant's mega-power in the market to bolster.

[trotchky]

You are probably right. I guess the bigger issue (or my bigger issue with them) is that most of their writers are terrible.

[Raiders]

You are probably right. I guess the bigger issue (or my bigger issue with them) is that most of their writers are terrible.

This has sadly become quite true. I still enjoy reading some of their stuff, but they have gotten rather lazy over the past couple of years. I stick more to blogs nowadays for reviews, particularly The House Next Door. In general though, I just don't read much critical pieces any more at all.

[right_for_the_moment]

A note from Coppola posted on Landmark Theatre's website:

http://www.landmarktheatres.com/mn/tetro.html

[eternity]

A note from Coppola posted on Landmark Theatre's website:

http://www.landmarktheatres.com/mn/tetro.html

That taught me a lot I didn't know about Coppola and why his career went south. Very interesting read; someone give this guy more money.

[balmakboor]

A note from Coppola posted on Landmark Theatre's website:

http://www.landmarktheatres.com/mn/tetro.html

Coppola and Lucas remind me a lot of each other. But at least Coppola is putting his money where his mouth is and making the kinds of films he talks about wanting to make.

[Ezee E]

Coppola and Lucas remind me a lot of each other. But at least Coppola is putting his money where his mouth is and making the kinds of films he talks about wanting to make.
Indeed. It seems like every interview with Lucas is about how he wants to return to the "experimental film stage" but I'll venture to say we'll never see that day.

[Raiders]

Indeed. It seems like every interview with Lucas is about how he wants to return to the "experimental film stage" but I'll venture to say we'll never see that day.

Plus, THX 1138, the only real evidence he ever had an experimental side, is just as mediocre as anything he has made.

[balmakboor]

Plus, THX 1138, the only real evidence he ever had an experimental side, is just as mediocre as anything he has made.

All of his student shorts that I've seen exhibit an experimental side plus he talks often of being influenced by guys like Arthur Lipsett.

I also think THX 1138 is a terrific film, possibly his best.

[Qrazy]

All of his student shorts that I've seen exhibit an experimental side plus he talks often of being influenced by guys like Arthur Lipsett.

I also think THX 1138 is a terrific film, possibly his best.

I haven't seen his shorts but I've heard good things and I agree with the rest of your sentiments... perhaps not terrific but quite good at least. Also for what it is American Graffiti is a solid genre entry. I have problems with the first Star Wars (mostly the second half) but it has it's strengths... and he was instrumental in the rest of the original trilogy and Indiana Jones so I don't think it's fair to condemn him outright.

[Rowland]

THX 1138, American Graffiti, and Star Wars all strike me as rather good pictures that potent a promising career that never came to be. All three suffer from third act deficiencies.

[DavidSeven]

Hm. I thought the third act (or second half) of Star Wars was the best part and what saved it from being a really average kiddie picture. The first act of that film is pretty poor.

[Watashi]

I think all three acts are masterpieces.

[Qrazy]

Hm. I thought the third act (or second half) of Star Wars was the best part and what saved it from being a really average kiddie picture. The first act of that film is pretty poor.

The first half of the film you're introduced to all of these new and interesting characters and creatures. Luke watches the double sunset. His aunt and uncle die (genuine drama/emotion). The cantina. We see Darth's power. Han Solo and the Millenium Falcon.

The second half has the characters running in circles around the death star. Obi Wan playing hide and seek with storm troopers. Terrible old man light saber battle between Darth and Obi Wan. A war info. session and then a repititious space battle. All of those cut aways to the death star tunnel become redundant. Darth's ship gets knocked away like a pinball and rotates around in space. The film is then capped off with an awards ceremony.

The first half is quality world building. The second half is world boring.

[BuffaloWilder]

I'm not really a fan of the first Star Wars film. It really does feel like - well, a matinee film, as far as production values go, in certain parts.

Now, Empire? That's a different story. Primarily, I think, because they decided to keep Lucas away from his own mythology.

[MacGuffin]

Astonishing, really. More thoughts will probably follow, but for now: I shook hands with Vincent Gallo after the movie, and he seemed really nice. I told him I was a fan of his work. I asked him if he would ever consider collaborating with Roger Ebert on a script and he said that Ebert was a very smart man, but that he didn't think he was a very good writer.

I didn't get to meet Francis Ford Coppola personally, but after I crossed a street, I saw him leaving in his car as others were shouting to him that they loved his work and UCLA Alumni. I gave him a thumbs up sign which caught his attention and said that I really liked the movie and he told me thanks for coming out tonight. I had a really fun time.

[Qrazy]

Awesome.

[MacGuffin]

Awesome.

Thanks, it was a lot of fun. And I'd probably put it on par with how I remember The Godfather as far as how much I liked it. I even liked it more than Apocalypse Now, though most will disagree, I'm sure. Basically, this is probably a breakthrough performance for Vincent Gallo even though he's been in this business for many years, and I was really amazed with him in this movie. I definitely agree with J. Hoberman that Coppola is back, and while I don't really know fully how to interpret that considering I have seen little of his work since the 70s epics, excluding The Godfather Part III, which I didn't seem a problem with like most did, I would say it's certainly on par with his earlier work in terms of artistry and quality.

[Boner M]

Yeah that's way cool CSC. I'd be too shy to meet Gallo, let alone mention anything Ebert-related. Good job.

[MacGuffin]

Yeah that's way cool CSC. I'd be too shy to meet Gallo, let alone mention anything Ebert-related. Good job.

Yeah, I was wondering if he'd catch the joke, or know that Ebert wrote for Russ Meyer, but I figured he probably would.

[MacGuffin]

Btw, Boner, post your pic with Ming-liang Tsai!

[Boner M]

Btw, Boner, post your pic with Ming-liang Tsai!
The photographer who took it seems to have disappeared. My friend (who working for the fest and knows the guy) will have to track him down. It'll come eventually, and I'll be sure to have a captioning contest for it.

[MacGuffin]

The photographer who took it seems to have disappeared. My friend (who working for the fest and knows the guy) will have to track him down. It'll come eventually, and I'll be sure to have a captioning contest for it.

Haha, nice. Did Tsai speak good English? I might try to meet Denis if she shows up on Tuesday, so I may have to brush up on my French.

[Boner M]

Haha, nice. Did Tsai speak good English? I might try to meet Denis if she shows up on Tuesday, so I may have to brush up on my French.
Nah, he had a translator with him for everything. A lot of the questions asked in the Q&A seemed to be lost in translation, but his answers were good anyway. Didn't say anything to him when I got a photo.

[MacGuffin]

I really want to see Buffalo '66 now. I saw parts of it years ago, but never the whole thing. I loved The Brown Bunny.

[Qrazy]

Haha changed your rating system again, classic.

[MacGuffin]

Haha changed your rating system again, classic.

Yeah, I was thinking of just going with out a rating system, but I figure whatever, I'll keep it up for a while probably since everyone else here has one and will probably end up changing it in a few days again (or not, who knows?).

[baby doll]

Gallo looks like Charlie Manson in that picture.

[origami_mustache]

Gallo seems like a nice guy despite his reputation from what I have been told by my girlfriend who worked for him briefly. His performance was fine, but I thought the film itself was a train wreck. I was really looking forward to this one, and tried hard to like it, but there was just no denying how bad it was. Her words following the film:
"I can't get over how bad Tetro was. It doesn't seem like it happened."

[MacGuffin]

Gallo seems like a nice guy despite his reputation from what I have been told by my girlfriend who worked for him briefly. His performance was fine, but I thought the film itself was a train wreck. I was really looking forward to this one, and tried hard to like it, but there was just no denying how bad it was. Her words following the film:
"I can't get over how bad Tetro was. It doesn't seem like it happened."

No denying?

[MacGuffin]

I'm surprised you didn't like it, though. I was going to say I'd be surprised if anyone here didn't like it, but that's pushing it. It's a very focused movie, so maybe "trainwreck" isn't exactly the word you were looking for. I thought the movie was a magnificent exercise in narrative.

[origami_mustache]

No denying?

Speaking subjectively...no denying to myself. I don't speak on behalf of others.

I'm not so sure it was focused though. There were so many things that I didn't really feel fit, and I never got a good feel for the tone. The music was overwhelmingly cheesy and would have been more fitting in a comedy piece. The flashbacks were in color and a different aspect ratio? I don't even understand why it's in b&w to begin with. Judging by how atrocious some of the color footage looked it was the right choice. The compositions are nice for the most part, but this particular HD look is really off putting to me.

Benny's whole virginity thing was unnecessary and I honestly could have cared less about the reveal. Their relationship is basically the same either way, it doesn't really change much. I could have done without the critic character...she didn't seem to bring anything of value to the table. Most of the exposition was overtly presented, yet poorly developed. The asylum thing was never really well explained. I don't think Tetro's father could have been any more stereotypical. Benny's transformation seemed rather forced and his becoming more like Tetro is too obvious. I thought the ending escalated to a level of ridiculousness that was almost laughable. I just thought the whole thing was full of holes and trite metaphors like something that would be produced fresh out of films school.

[MacGuffin]

SPOILERS:


The music was overwhelmingly cheesy and would have been more fitting in a comedy piece.

Yeah, I'm afraid I didn't really pay attention the music of the movie. The images and the story were far too engrossing for me, and the performances really drew me into the story.


The flashbacks were in color and a different aspect ratio? I don't even understand why it's in b&w to begin with. Judging by how atrocious some of the color footage looked it was the right choice. The compositions are nice for the most part, but this particular HD look is really off putting to me.

I actually thought it looked really good, and last year, I wasn't a very strong believer in HD or digital filmmaking at all for that matter. I think the reason for the black and white footage and the color footage is to contrast tones and emotions. The black and white world is the one Tetro is hiding in, while the color footage represents the past that he is hiding from. Coppola said something along the lines of how the black and white made the Tales of Hoffman (which I haven't seen) segment much more powerful when it appears. I did think the transitions were jolting, and in a good way. Coppola doesn't transition color usage in order to get our attention, but to direct it. That's just another reason why I find this to be a masterful piece of narrative.

Also, the black and white looks amazing. Aside from a few pans where the colors blur as a result of the digital (hey, I never said it was perfect, but I'm really starting to like the "realist" look), I think the various depths of gray really made the movie feeling like a painting, keeping in mind my explanation for the reasoning behind the black and white and color transitions. But elaborating on that even further, I actually thought that when I was watching the movie, that I couldn't see the movie working in color. It would only be distracting, and plus it fits the tone of the movie; which, contrary to how you feel, is very much present if you consider the characters past in correspondence to their place in the present story.


Benny's whole virginity thing was unnecessary and I honestly could have cared less about the reveal. Their relationship is basically the same either way, it doesn't really change much.

It may not have matter inherently, but where it is placed in the story is important. The scenario occurs at a time where Bennie is not at a good place with Tetro, and I think the most important thing here is that it develops his relationship with Miranda (with her an her women's intuition, and it also reveals how much she cares about Bennie), while also revealing how stuck in a rut he is in his relationship with Tetro. When Miranda arrives at the door, she tells him Tetro is missing, and notices he's obviously been doing things. He looks surprised but not exactly, but when the door closes, the music starts again, if I recall correctly, and we assume, the partying continues. It represents the part in the story before the twist is revealed to show where the characters are at.


I could have done without the critic character...she didn't seem to bring anything of value to the table.

I think Alone is a very important character. She is a part of Tetro's past and the movie is about... his past. In a way, it represents something that has been troubling him for so long. She was a teacher; the one who was judging his work and helping him become a stronger writer, but the writer is what had been haunting him for so long. The writing contains the words that resemble the truth that he is trying to keep a secret, and that disturbs him.

I think you could also find many other things to read about her character. To name one, Coppola's relationship with critics.


Most of the exposition was overtly presented, yet poorly developed.

I think the exposition was fine. I was a bit surprised when it actually changed to color, but when I realized the purpose for Coppola to do this, it did not bother me, and I began to like it. Tetro has two different lives as we know: Angelo and Tetro. As for it being poorly developed, I think it does just enough so we could understand what Tetro's life was like as Angelo, which is all it is supposed to do. It's really there so we can see how the characters got there. I think the emotional resonance shows itself in the black and white segments when we realize how the color segments affect the characters, barring the car accident scene, of course.

Furthermore, I didn't find it poorly developed because of the seamless transitions between the then and the now. We are allowed to make our own conclusions about the expositions, and that ultimately affects how we see the characters in the black and white world, which means Coppola is using a device to allow us to develop them ourselves in a way. For example, when Bennie and Tetro are talking about Tales of Hoffman, there obviously isn't a lot shown in that exposition, but I came to the conclusion it was a brotherly sort of thing, and that they once had a very strong relationship and understanding of each other: Bennie loved Tetro regardless of his quirks.


The asylum thing was never really well explained.

What more could you want? Tetro's father steals the girlfriend he concieved Bennie with. Tetro runs off to Argentina, winds up in an asylum. I just figured he went there himself, or was put there by people who saw he was obviously off his rocker because of his father. He falls in love with Miranda, they go to Buenos Aires. Granted, Coppola doesn't necessary connect the dots to these events, but I don't think that is necessary. It wouldn't allow us to understand any of the characters any better, and we can draw our own conclusions about how these things occurred, as I said.


I don't think Tetro's father could have been any more stereotypical.

You're right. That's intentional, and how is a stereotypical character a flaw?


Benny's transformation seemed rather forced and his becoming more like Tetro is too obvious and forced.

I'm going to assume you are talking about Bennie writing the script for the play, which I didn't find obvious at all. When somebody finds something they are truly interested in, they become obsessed with it. Bennie wanted to explore the writings, and this was the best way he saw to do so. How he knew how to write scripts, I don't know, but that's not important. He had heard of the festival, and thought it would be a good idea.


I just thought the whole thing was full of holes and trite metaphors like something that would be produced fresh out of films school.

I think you are only drawing the film school conclusion because the movie was in black and white. Coppola called this the second movie of his second career, and while I haven't seen Youth Without Youth (which I'm guessing is the first movie of his second career), I found this to be a very fascinating approach to classical narrative.

[origami_mustache]

You make fine defenses for why you liked it, but I just couldn't get in to it. It came across as a really amateur film to me, both in terms of the stylistic choices and the script itself. I like the explanation for the the use of color and b&w to distinguish Tetro's different life as Angelo, but it's still a rather drastic choice. I refer to it as film schoolish more based on the mentality behind some of the choices. It just feels like at times Coppola is throwing in some extravagant colorful green screen dance number because it "looks cool." Also a lot of the scenarios seem very naive and not well thought out. For example Tetro presenting Bennie with an axe and telling him to kill him, or Bennie walking into traffic, and Tetro telling him to not look into the light. It just seems too drastic and the motivations don't seem consistent with the rest of the film. A lot of the nudity seems gratuitous as well....also a very film school thing to do in my opinion. I started to find a lot of the character's actions to be kind of questionable. Why is Miranda immediately so caring towards Bennie? Why does Miranda fall in love with an insane guy? Why must Tetro reveal to Bennie their true relationship during the award presentation? I'm all for the audience having to draw their own conclusions, but it becomes a problem to me when I can't buy into the character's behaviors. As for Bennie's transformation I don't mean him writing the play. I refer more to him taking on the look and mannerisms of Tetro. At first he is a curious and jovial young kid, but by the end he is limping around on crutches like Tetro before him, scowling, and even dressing like Tetro. I mean I get it...you don't have to shove it in my face.

[MacGuffin]

I don't really have much to add to the film school aspects outside of the things I said previously (a lot of this may be a result of Coppola experimenting, and I had a problem with none of it; though it seems to me your milage may vary, obviously), however...


but it becomes a problem to me when I can't buy into the character's behaviors

... as I said previously, you have to be able to look at where the characters are in the black and white segments in correspondence with where they were in the color segments, I think, which is basically how the movie draws us into feeling for the characters. I bought into the characters' behaviors because I looked at the things they were doing as a result of the things that had already happened in the past.

It saddens me that you didn't like the movie, but that's how it goes I guess. Maybe you'll try it again when it comes out on DVD keeping the things that you read in mind?

[Pop Trash]

So Clipper is like twelve? Who knew?

[MacGuffin]

So Clipper is like twelve? Who knew?

Huh?

[Pop Trash]

Huh?

Your photo.

[MacGuffin]

Your photo.

Yeah, I'm surprised you think I look that young. I'm not sure how to take it.

[origami_mustache]

It saddens me that you didn't like the movie, but that's how it goes I guess. Maybe you'll try it again when it comes out on DVD keeping the things that you read in mind?

Glad you liked it so much. Perhaps I am holding Tetro up to too high of a standard, but regardless I don't think I will ever like it.

[Beau]

The music was overwhelmingly cheesy and would have been more fitting in a comedy piece.

Maybe. It is kind of like a comedy, though, not only the parts that are outright funny, but the drama is consciously stylized and could be enjoyed with an ironic bent. I can see that happening. Like I mentioned in my mini-review, there seems to be a clear link between what the characters are feeling and what we see on the screen, which would suggest the images are created by the characters, consciously or unconsciously. I think a measure of grandiosity is to be expected and even fitting. However, I understand if it rubs someone the wrong way.


The flashbacks were in color and a different aspect ratio?

Are they flashbacks, though? The flashbacks are wrapped within the context of writing the play, and in fact, most of the flashbacks are the play or, more accurately, what the two protagonists imagine when they write/read the script. The surfacing of color becomes the surfacing of artistic creation. The dance numbers play into it: they are part of the characters' imagination transforming real-life events into artistic flourish. It's not just the play they end up creating that we see; it is simply the way their minds work, always grabbing from real life (or from movies they've seen) to create slightly-fictionalized stage-versions of events. Even when they're not writing or reading anything, they still do the same transformation-act (some of the color sections are not related to the creation of the play, but they're still visions of theater performances - most of the dance numbers fall into this area).


Benny's whole virginity thing was unnecessary

I don't know - it seems to fall in line with his 'growing up' and whatnot. Even if we scrap that detail off the table, his virginity still plays into his perceived innocence and youth, which is a big part of his character and a big part of how others react to him.


I honestly could have cared less about the reveal. Their relationship is basically the same either way, it doesn't really change much.

Well, yeah it does change a lot - doesn't the reveal explain the root of their frictions, the root of their distance, facts which are otherwise mysterious without the reveal?


I don't think Tetro's father could have been any more stereotypical.

Okay, but who's making him stereotypical? When do we see the father? We see him during the imagined color sequences when the protagonists are writing or reading the play, and I think it's understandable that the protagonists would not be able to create a balanced view of the father. I get the argument that, "just because it's a fiction within the fiction, that doesn't excuse the fiction within the fiction from being bad," but I do think that in this case the "bad fiction," that is, the stereotypical father, adds to the characterization of the protagonists, who cannot really humanize the father figure.


Benny's transformation seemed rather forced and his becoming more like Tetro is too obvious.

I wouldn't say transformation. I think he has an artistic side within him from the beginning. As for the physical transformation, I think it's pure performance on Benny's part. He's playing Tetro. I think the character is doing it consciously. I don't think it's Coppola going, "hey, look, he's becoming the other!"

Anyways, I understand your conversation with Clipper is over with, and I get that if you just didn't flow with the film, there's nothing to do, but I do have a problem with some of the above comments. However, I can see most of Match Cut agreeing with you by the time everybody's had a chance to catch the movie.

[MacGuffin]

Are they flashbacks, though? The flashbacks are wrapped within the context of writing the play, and in fact, most of the flashbacks are the play or, more accurately, what the two protagonists imagine when they write/read the script.

Some of them are flashbacks, like when we go back to Tetro and his mother in the car, or Tetro and his father on the beach. Some of them are not flashbacks in the context of the story, like the play scenes that you refer to.


I wouldn't say transformation. I think he has an artistic side within him from the beginning. As for the physical transformation, I think it's pure performance on Benny's part. He's playing Tetro. I think the character is doing it consciously. I don't think it's Coppola going, "hey, look, he's becoming the other!"

I can see where you are coming from, and that is an interesting reading (him playing Tetro). I guess it goes with how I was going to describe it: Bennie resurfacing his past with Tetro, where Tetro would show Bennie all sorts of movies when they were younger, in an attempt to get an emotional rise out of Tetro.

[origami_mustache]

The reveal comes across as even more forced melodrama which I had enough of beforehand. I sort of liked the relationship the brothers had and the mystery of their past, but it just explodes into one big soap opera like cliché and continues in a downward spiral from there. The whole struggling writer trying to disconnect himself from his past was already cliché enough. The ending doesn't even really seem to make much sense to me. Tetro hugging Bennie telling him "they will be a family now." When did he decide this? and shouldn't Bennie have ill feelings towards Tetro as well as his grandfather? There is almost nothing about the entire film that comes across as natural to me. It all seems completely forced.

[trotchky]

As with Buffalo '66, I'm not exactly sure what Tetro is about, but it sure is stunning to look at and consistently, compulsively watchable.

[trotchky]

I'm really happy I got to see this on The Big Screen because of how gorgeous it is. This is the best b&w cinematography I've seen in a feature film since I'm Not There.

[origami_mustache]

Really? I hated the cinematography. The compositions are nice, but I'm not into the whole crystal clear HD thing and the movement is too fluid and reminds me too much of video.

[trotchky]

I didn't know this was shot on HD but I really dug how it used that crystal clarity with very deliberate, iconic, noir-esque imagery; reminded me of Sin City, only meaty.

[MacGuffin]

reminded me of Sin City, only meaty.

Really? I don't think it reminded me of Sin City at all. That has a far more polished, theatrical, comic-book sort-of look, whereas this is a more hazy, a more glassy kind of digital approach to what seems to be, at its core, a 35mm-film type of movie.

[trotchky]

Really? I don't think it reminded me of Sin City at all. That has a far more polished, theatrical, comic-book sort-of look, whereas this is a more hazy, a more glassy kind of digital approach to what seems to be, at its core, a 35mm-film type of movie.

Well, yeah, that's sort of what my "only meaty" comment referred to it. It looks how I imagine Sin City wanted to look, with really bold compositions and high contrast b&w imagery that evoke classic noir movies with a modern feel. Sin City obviously looks like crap compared to this, because Robert Rodriguez has no idea how to communicate pathos visually.

Also, I'm not sure what "type of movie" a 35mm movie is.

[MacGuffin]

Also, I'm not sure what "type of movie" a 35mm movie is.

Basically a movie shot on film. It feels like a movie shot on digital that thinks it was shot on film.

[trotchky]

Basically a movie shot on film. It feels like a movie shot on digital that thinks it was shot on film.

In that case, I agree. I also think that's a look Sin City went for, and failed.

[Llopin]

Wussup. I saw this on the big screen yesterday. I had my doubts on giving it a go, but considering it concerned a writer in Argentina, I had no choice. I see Bolaño is quietly becoming quite the hype, now he's being mentioned nicely in latin american scenarios (León Felipe too, that was random). I mostly enjoyed how the film started as a costumbrist portrayal of family malfunctions and evolved into something rather epic in scope, as if Coppola lost it.

There's this hypothesis I came up with in which everything posterior to Bennie's accident is a coma dream; there's the heart machine tickling noises and the plot goes overboard.

I do not believe the ending works as well as it should - it is not as tragic or as pseudo-oedipal as one could hope for, and honestly from a behavioral standpoint it doesn't make much sense - but overall I was mostly entertained by the plot and wasn't much offended throughout. The best parts are those concerning Maura ("Alone"), a walking parody; I enjoyed the fellini-esque over-the-topness of the whole Parricidas Patagonia prize. The whole deal with the car crashes ends up being rather funny, too (the llama scene). The film has a weird rhythm/pace (the colour flashbacks and dance re-enactments), I ignore if it is intentional, yet it never decays.

[trotchky]

I remember almost nothing about this movie and I'm not sure why that is.

[Amnesiac]

Well, great movie. Great visuals. Great cast.

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww46/Amnesiac7/tetro.jpg

Alden Ehrenreich, who reminds me of a young Leonardo DiCaprio both in terms of looks and method, really shines here as Bennie. He tackles this role with an endearing amount of naive pluckiness, inquisitiveness and vulnerability. Early in the film he arrives at the house of a brother who he has not seen for ages. His wide eyes sincerely carry both uncertainty and excitement. In anticipation of Tetro's grand reveal from behind two locked doors, Bennie straightens up like a soldier and attempts to strike a pose of affected maturity. Of course, this pose fails but is nonetheless amusing due it being at odds with his youthful disposition and the charming banality of his cruise liner uniform.

Shortly thereafter, Bennie attempts to gracefully toss his hat onto a nearby hat rack. He fails. And yet, like the failure of the affected pose, this is a simple gesture that speaks volumes about his status as this nascent, yet eager, adventurer. It is clear that Bennie has romanticized his visit to a brother who made a promise to him long ago. And it is the dissonance between Bennie's naive/youthful charm and the darker bent of Tetro's elusive past that lends this film its captivating energy. The film is an eccentric, humorous, appropriately self-important and melodramatic bildungsroman that tracks Bennie's development from a well-meaning, loving and terribly inquisitive brother to someone who, like Tetro, has to learn how to carry the burden of memory and trauma.

And the film does handles trauma in a compelling and appropriately bombastic fashion. The bold and dramatic compositions seem to be directly informed by the obsessions and internal sufferings of its characters. I think Beau was right on the money when he wrote this:


Like I mentioned in my mini-review, there seems to be a clear link between what the characters are feeling and what we see on the screen, which would suggest the images are created by the characters, consciously or unconsciously. I think a measure of grandiosity is to be expected and even fitting.

If the music seems a touch sentimental or treacly at times, or if the compositions and lighting are too excessively moody or ostentatious, or the memory/imagination sequences too grandiloquent... this seems to be exactly the point. The psychology of its characters, Tetro in particular, seems to have infected the film's very aesthetic. After all, he is an obsessed, self important character who can't escape his inner problems, but instead wears them on his sleeve each and every time he enters a room. His angst his its own gravitational pull. Thus, the scenes of the film which lack in 'world building' ambience and peripheral noises (the 'it sounds like a stage play' observation) lends the film's events an appropriately egocentric centrality — be it Bennie's heartfelt trials or Tetro's tortured surliness. Again, this is very apt considering Tetro's status as this decidedly morose martyr of a failed artist, whose bombastically histrionic self importance is lost on him. Coppola's entire aesthetic seems crafted to accentuate this tortured psyche rather than merely observe it. Tetro's visuals live and breathe in synchronicity with the grandiose and melodramatic obsessions of its eponymous character.

This is why I can not only forgive the film its visual flourishes and sentimentality, but also adore it. It seems like the perfect expression of someone whose entire world has come to be painted with the troubling and indelible specter of the past.

And then there's the ending...

It is rather great, no? The headlight motif suddenly loses its harsh specificity and focus, and it joins myriad other unfocused circles of light as the credits appear. It's an affecting image that seems to express the resiliency of the human spirit over the trauma of the past. That once harsh and deeply focused motif, representative as it is of traumatic and indelible memories, has finally receded. With family secrets revealed and burdens ostensibly exorcised, the road is now paved for a new and cathartic bond to begin between Tetro and Bennie. Thus, the intensity of that motif — once haunting, bright and glaring — has dulled down and receded to a place in the psyche whereby Tetro's once tortured characters may be able to move on with their life. Nice touch.