James Cameron's Avatar (2009)

[B-side]

Your face was as mediocre as I was expecting.

I will fight you, Nathan.

[Boner M]

I don't mind people telling me how much they enjoyed this, but when they start to talk about how great the storytelling was, that's where I start to cringe.
I thought the telling of the story was fluid and compelling, it was just the elements that comprise the story that were lame.

[Dukefrukem]

I thought the telling of the story was fluid and compelling, it was just the elements that comprise the story that were lame.

I was caught up with the voice over. At the time I thought it was a really weak and lazy way to walk through the movie. But then I watched Terminator 2 a few days later, and it has the same kind of voice over... I'm going to see Avatar this weekend in IMAX. I'd love to reconsider my opinion on this.

[Russ]

Besides making billions of dollars, did you know that AVATAR KILLS (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100119/ennew_afp/entertainmentfilmhealthavatart aiwan_20100119063547)?

It was only a matter of time.

[[ETM]]

I've seen it for the fourth time tonight. Still doesn't get old. I was trying to find flaws with the CGI this time... still nothing tangible. Also, almost full house a month after the premiere, and in 2D. This hasn't happened here since... ever.

[megladon8]

The CGI was really, really freaking good...but flawless? Come on.

[Winston*]

The CGI was really, really freaking good...but flawless? Come on.

The MadMan continuum.

[[ETM]]

The CGI was really, really freaking good...but flawless? Come on.

I'm not saying flawless as in flawlessly realistic. I can think of a couple of places where something didn't look quite real enough, certainly not as real as the protagonists, but it's amazing how even the smallest of details behave as they should in large, fast paced scenes. They took no shortcuts, and it shows.

[MadMan]

The MadMan continuum.I have no idea what that is. But hey look, its named after me. Which means it probably sucks :lol:

Yes I thought the 3D was great. It and the great, well executed action sequences are the only reason to see this movie. I'm sure its rating will take a hit if I watch the whole thing again, and no it won't crack my Top 10 for the year. Still its proof that James Cameron is still capable of making a good movie. Maybe he'll go back to the level of The Terminator-Aliens-T2 (I haven't viewed The Abyss yet). We'll see.

PS: Spinal is correct about this movie not having much of a good story. The plot still had issues. In the end, a second viewing really is a must.

[Qrazy]

I have no idea what that is. But hey look, its named after me. Which means it probably sucks :lol:

Yes I thought the 3D was great. It and the great, well executed action sequences are the only reason to see this movie. I'm sure its rating will take a hit if I watch the whole thing again, and no it won't crack my Top 10 for the year. Still its proof that James Cameron is still capable of making a good movie. Maybe he'll go back to the level of The Terminator-Aliens-T2 (I haven't viewed The Abyss yet). We'll see.

PS: Spinal is correct about this movie not having much of a good story. The plot still had issues. In the end, a second viewing really is a must.

Do check out The Abyss.

[KK2.0]

The CGI was really, really freaking good...but flawless? Come on.

Hmmm, you may claim nothing is perfect but looking for flaws in Avatar's CGI requires serious nitpicking. And considering that the film has CGI on almost every scene, truly outstanding in it's consistency.

[Dukefrukem]

Hmmm, you may claim nothing is perfect but looking for flaws in Avatar's CGI requires serious nitpicking. And considering that the film has CGI on almost every scene, truly outstanding in it's consistency.

On top of, we can't tell the difference between what's ACTED CGI (the rigging process), and what's 100% bcomputer generated CGI.

[KK2.0]

Perhaps WETA is at a safe place after working with two big fantasy flicks, with lots of performance capture in them, but both LOTR and King Kong have their highs and lows, Avatar shows the maturity they've reached after all those years, perfecting the tools and all that. I can't even imagine how awesome The Hobbit will look.

And there's also Tin Tin, was there even a frame of this already released to the public?

[[ETM]]

I loved the CGsociety interview with WETA's people about the technical aspects of working on Avatar, especially how they modified their Massive software to create CGI plants and forests, as well as insect swarms.

[number8]

You know why Saldana might deserve an Oscar nod?

I watched footage of the filming, and man, they look ridiculous in the mo-cap suits acting dramatically to each other. I was kind of astonished that Saldana was able to keep a straight face doing the scene where Jake confesses to the Omaticaya. She was screaming, "I trusted you!" and crying very convincingly, but all I could focus on was what she was wearing.

[Ezee E]

You know why Saldana might deserve an Oscar nod?

I watched footage of the filming, and man, they look ridiculous in the mo-cap suits acting dramatically to each other. I was kind of astonished that Saldana was able to keep a straight face doing the scene where Jake confesses to the Omaticaya. She was screaming, "I trusted you!" and crying very convincingly, but all I could focus on was what she was wearing.
Any links of this?

[number8]

Uhh, saw it on YouTube a week or so ago. Not sure... I think the video was from before release. One of those BTS preview things.

[Skitch]

I think I saw similar footage in Cameron's 60 Minutes interview?

[[ETM]]

There was a 13 minute BTS special on HBO, I got it from a torrent. It has bits from the Youtube clips, but also a whloe lot more on how they captured group scenes (Wes Studi and Sigourney Weaver in mo-cap costumes ftw) and physical action, like climbing, Ikran riding, fighting... Plus a whole lot of the side by side comparisons of acting and captured finished scene. I never imagined they captured pretty much everything, I assumed they just animated all but closeups and character moments, but no - EVERYTHING was captured minutely. I gained renewed deep respect for everyone's commitment after seeing that.

[number8]

The side-by-side comparisons are pretty amazing. It's the exact same footage, to the smallest of Saldana's ticks... except she's blue and stuff.

[number8]

If they really want recognition, they need to stop calling it CG.

I propose "Digital Make-up and Prosthetics."

[[ETM]]

If they really want recognition, they need to stop calling it CG.

I propose "Digital Make-up and Prosthetics."

If more films embrace the process, there's gonna be a lot of change needed in the awards line-ups... for example, there needs to be a complete overhaul of the animation categories (Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakwell is an animated film?! Really?!), and the addition of "Best Captured Performance" or something like that, because while the animators could argue that they are responsible for the creation of Gollum, the Na'vi in Avatar are such a huge leap forward that we're way past that argument now.

[KK2.0]

I thought it was a consensus that Gollum was an Andy Serkis character through and through. However, animators had to translate his facial expressions since the performance capture was far less advanced.

That said, i watched the Avatar mo-cap session at youtube, and those suits look very awkward, the first rehearsals must have been a laugh riot. Even this new technology has room to grow.

[KK2.0]

If they really want recognition, they need to stop calling it CG.

I propose "Digital Make-up and Prosthetics."

Agreed. CGI is too generic.

[megladon8]

Apparently psychiatrists are now dealing with many, many people suffering from "blue depression" - they saw Avatar, and now find Earth so mundane and boring that they wish they could somehow live on Pandora.

[Qrazy]

We live in such a world full of retards.

[number8]

We live in such a world full of retards.

Yep, totally. That's why I wish I was in Pandora instead. So much better there.

[[ETM]]

I mean, people killed themselves in order to hitch a ride on the Hale-Bopp comet... a movie world somehow makes more sense.

[Spinal]

Earth is vastly more fascinating than Pandora.

[Mysterious Dude]

If you lived on Pandora, you wouldn't be able to watch movies (such as Avatar).

[Skitch]

If you lived on Pandora, you wouldn't be able to watch movies (such as Avatar).

Yeah, but...I'd have a valid excuse for my blue penis...

[[ETM]]

Hmm... flying versus watching movies...

[Winston*]

;235739']Hmm... flying versus watching movies...

On Earth we have planes, where you can fly while watching movies.

[Skitch]

On Earth we have planes, where you can fly while watching movies.

:lol:

World Of Tomorrow!!!!

[[ETM]]

On Earth we have planes, where you can fly while watching movies.

And yet people never shut up about flying cars.

[Dukefrukem]

Avatar was much better the 2nd time around.

[Qrazy]

Have you guys ever tried living in the wild? It fucking sucks. I did a wilderness training camp as a kid. The stuff we learned about survival was interesting but we had to spend a night sleeping outside in our debris huts. It poured buckets that night. A squirrel stole the leaves at the base of my debris hut. I was soaked by the end of the night. I now live in a city. Pandora can suck my dick.

[number8]

I pretty much hate trees.

[Malickfan]

I pretty much hate trees.

#1 cause of forest fires.

[B-side]

I'll continue to be baffled by the love for this film.

[[ETM]]

Have you guys ever tried living in the wild? It fucking sucks... Pandora can suck my dick.

I may be wrong, but I think the whole idea of living on Pandora involves an avatar body.


I'll continue to be baffled by the love for this film.

I'll continue to not care.

[B-side]

;235798']I'll continue to not care.

:sad:

[[ETM]]

:sad:

That was harsh. I've been involved in pointless bickering with haters on various forums these few days, so my tolerance is pretty low.

[Dukefrukem]

I'll continue to be baffled by the love for this film.

It's not a complicated story, but it works and an all around great experience. I've decided that it is Cameron's best film on an entertainment level.

[balmakboor]

I think it says a lot about what people want -- need? -- that the top two box office moneymakers in history -- Titanic and Avatar -- have very simple, black and white, unabiguously archetypical characters and storyline. So did Star Wars for that matter.

[Dukefrukem]

I think it says a lot about what people want -- need? -- that the top two box office moneymakers in history -- Titanic and Avatar -- have very simple, black and white, unabiguously archetypical characters and storyline. So did Star Wars for that matter.

It's more about the universe the characters reside in, that's where the interest lies. People wanted to see life on Titanic. People want to see life in a galaxy far far away, people want to see life on Pandora.

ALso this thing only needs $6 million to eclipse Titanic WW.

[number8]

Already happened, actually.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i84347827022cc7930e4d1b870cb 249a4

[Kurosawa Fan]

Needs around $50 million to break the domestic record, correct? Seems inevitable at this point. I liked this more than Titanic, so I guess that's okay with me.

[Dukefrukem]

Already happened, actually.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i84347827022cc7930e4d1b870cb 249a4

That's just the international record isn't it?

[[ETM]]

I will pass Titanic's domestic gross sometime next week... it has just passed Dark Knight. First $2 billion dollar film, easily.

[Barty]

Titanic is still the better film. I still can't believe how James Cameron pulled this shit off, though.

[megladon8]

The Dark Knight is better than both combined.

[Qrazy]

It's more about the universe the characters reside in, that's where the interest lies. People wanted to see life on Titanic. People want to see life in a galaxy far far away, people want to see life on Pandora.


Also true but I think balmakboor is also on to something. You don't see intricately plotted films with complete moral ambiguity topping the charts. Perhaps if Avatar has made some of the story changes I wished for (making things less black and white) it wouldn't have done nearly as well.

[megladon8]

Doesn't The Dark Knight kind of prove that theory untrue, though? Or maybe it's just a fluke?

Say what you will about the "theme spouting dialogue", it discussed some fairly complex moral ambiguities, and hardly ended on a high note.

[Skitch]

Doesn't The Dark Knight kind of prove that theory untrue, though? Or maybe it's just a fluke?

Say what you will about the "theme spouting dialogue", it discussed some fairly complex moral ambiguities, and hardly ended on a high note.
Rep for good post and Needful Things love. Welcome to a new millenium.

[megladon8]

Rep for good post and Needful Things love. Welcome to a new millenium.


I'm a little confused as to why people seem to dislike "Needful Things" so much.

It's never going to make a list of my favorite King novels - there are some clunky attempts at inventive writing techniques that really stand out occasionally. But most seem to place it on their "King's crappy books" list. I'd say it's solid middle tier so far.

[Skitch]

I'm a little confused as to why people seem to dislike "Needful Things" so much.

It's never going to make a list of my favorite King novels - there are some clunky attempts at inventive writing techniques that really stand out occasionally. But most seem to place it on their "King's crappy books" list. I'd say it's solid middle tier so far.

I quite liked it. The movie, not so much, of course.

[[ETM]]

Perhaps if Avatar has made some of the story changes I wished for (making things less black and white) it wouldn't have done nearly as well.

If you compare the finished film with some of the stuff that's in the script and was left out, it's mostly the grey stuff that got cut. And I feel for the better in terms of not alienating the audiences looking for an old school adventure... There's barely any talk of what Earth is like, except that it's a "dying world" that literally needs the energy from unobtanium to survive... Selfridge had a whole lot more doubts about what he was doing and had to be literally bullied by Quaritch... Tsu'tey gets his "neural link" cut off by humans in combat, and hence his whole connection to Pandora, and begs Sully to kill him... I think Cameron was wise enough to streamline the plot to the point where it's almost no redundancy in it whatsoever. Say what you will about originality, but it runs like clockwork.

[[ETM]]

The Dark Knight is better than both combined.

Probably. Perhaps. I know I never quite had the need to see it again, even though it's rather vivid in my memory. It's just a completely different experience.

[Pop Trash]

Titanic is still the better film. I still can't believe how James Cameron pulled this shit off, though.

I agree with both of these sentiments.

[Dukefrukem]

It needs $2 million


The News Corp (NWSA.O)-owned studio said "Avatar" has sold $1.841 billion worth of tickets worldwide during its unbroken six-week reign, and was a day or so away from surpassing the seemingly insurmountable $1.843 billion racked up by "Titanic" in 1997-1998.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2414728620100124

[Ezee E]

It needs $2 million



http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2414728620100124
So. Today.

[Fezzik]

Doesn't The Dark Knight kind of prove that theory untrue, though? Or maybe it's just a fluke?

Say what you will about the "theme spouting dialogue", it discussed some fairly complex moral ambiguities, and hardly ended on a high note.

Fluke. A lot of it was the Ledger hype, whether justified (his performance) or morbid ("this is the role that killed him!")

It wouldn't have done nearly as much money without that built in.

[[ETM]]

Nathan Fillion is hilarious:


Everyone watching the game? Perfect time to see Avatar for 5th time. Boo to the ya. FTB.

[Dukefrukem]

;236152']Nathan Fillion is hilarious:

Holy shit! Didn't know he had twitter... Following now!

[[ETM]]

Holy shit! Didn't know he had twitter... Following now!

He's an early adopter. I think I joined because of him. He's been constantly funny.

[balmakboor]

It's more about the universe the characters reside in, that's where the interest lies. People wanted to see life on Titanic. People want to see life in a galaxy far far away, people want to see life on Pandora.

Just the fact that these three movies take their heroes to special worlds that are so exotically special is part of what I was saying.

Audiences seem to like their special worlds to be boldly special. Movies where the special world involves some subtle change of situation for the character don't seem to sell tickets as aggressively as ones where the special world involves a clear and vivid change of physical setting.

[Raiders]

Nathan Fillion is hilarious:

I still don't get his "feed the birds" thing as a congratulatory exclamation, but yeah, I may join just to follow him.

[Dukefrukem]

Just the fact that these three movies take their heroes to special worlds that are so exotically special is part of what I was saying.

Audiences seem to like their special worlds to be boldly special. Movies where the special world involves some subtle change of situation for the character don't seem to sell tickets as aggressively as ones where the special world involves a clear and vivid change of physical setting.

This also can fall under disaster movies and apocalyptic movies. They're worlds that most people will never get to experience, but are intrigued by someone else's vision of what the world may be like if- scenario A happened. Seeing a star survive in these worlds is part of the interest.

[balmakboor]

Doesn't The Dark Knight kind of prove that theory untrue, though? Or maybe it's just a fluke?

Yes, it does sit in the top four as something of an oddity. It is fairly complex although Batman and The Joker do adhere pretty closely to common hero and villain archetypes. And the special world isn't physically much different from the ordinary world.

But I do agree that The Dark Knight got most of its mileage from the popularity of the characters and the stories surrounding Heath Ledger.

I pretty much hated The Dark Knight for what it's worth.

[balmakboor]

This also can fall under disaster movies and apocalyptic movies. They're worlds that most people will never get to experience, but are intrigued by someone else's vision of what the world may be like if- scenario A happened. Seeing a star survive in these worlds is part of the interest.

I guess I'm not quite sure if you are agreeing with me or not, but I'm in full agreement with what you are saying here.

I've been reading a fair amount lately about character and story archetypes, something I've always found very interesting. And, of all current writers, I think Tarantino has the greatest and most playful knack for using archetypes of anyone. He uses them in ways where you don't notice them as such at first, but then you laugh along with him when you realize what he's doing.

Compare his writing to that of, say, Jason Reitman. I can sit and check off the stages of the hero's journey and identify the character archetypes the moment they appear on screen in movies like Juno and Up in the Air.

I'm getting a sense though that Up in the Air gave general audiences much more of what they need in a movie this year than did Inglourious Basterds.

[[ETM]]

I was reading an interesting article on a socialist website (Google news search, btw). Its author embraces Avatar as anti-imperialist, but his personal reading aside, he gave a rather interesting analysis of most major criticisms of the film, from right-wing to leftist, and the Vatican's. http://21stcenturysocialism.com/article/going_traitor_avatar_versus_im perialism_01954.html

[Dukefrukem]

I guess I'm not quite sure if you are agreeing with me or not, but I'm in full agreement with what you are saying here.

I've been reading a fair amount lately about character and story archetypes, something I've always found very interesting. And, of all current writers, I think Tarantino has the greatest and most playful knack for using archetypes of anyone. He uses them in ways where you don't notice them as such at first, but then you laugh along with him when you realize what he's doing.

Compare his writing to that of, say, Jason Reitman. I can sit and check off the stages of the hero's journey and identify the character archetypes the moment they appear on screen in movies like Juno and Up in the Air.

I'm getting a sense though that Up in the Air gave general audiences much more of what they need in a movie this year than did Inglourious Basterds.

I was agreeing. And I can totally see Tarantino's writing triggering the same kind of interest as our 'world' models. But what he does so well is create interesting dialog. Dialog that ISn'T blunt, but takes time to develop and mature to a point where viewers are glued to the conversation. I can't think of any dialog in any of his movies where I was bored.

[[ETM]]

I've heard comments that you can watch Avatar on mute to the same effect.
My only comment was that this was true only if you can listen to Tarantino's films on radio.

[balmakboor]

;236185']I've heard comments that you can watch Avatar on mute to the same effect.
My only comment was that this was true only if you can listen to Tarantino's films on radio.

I guess I don't see your point. Avatar is almost entirely a visual experience. Inglourious Basterds is both a feast for the eyes and ears -- although I suppose it is only truly the latter if one speaks English, German, and French.

[[ETM]]

I guess I don't see your point. Avatar is almost entirely a visual experience. Inglourious Basterds is both a feast for the eyes and ears -- although I suppose it is only truly the latter if one speaks English, German, and French.

I obviously disagree on Avatar. While I'm not exactly defending the dialogue, I enjoy some of the music a lot, and the auditory component that inhabits the world of the film is almost as important and inseparable from the visuals. On the other hand, Tarantino's films have always been dialogue heavy. I haven't seen Basterds, but all of the films that I have seen linger in my mind as sentences, not images. I can almost quote the entirety of Pulp Fiction.

[Winston*]

There are images in Inglourious Basterds more memorable than anything in Avatar.

[balmakboor]

There are images in Inglourious Basterds more memorable than anything in Avatar.

I totally agree. I can actually recall almost every image from IB. Avatar is mostly a blur of blue and green.

[Dukefrukem]

There are images in Inglourious Basterds more memorable than anything in Avatar.

I can't fathom how much I disagree with this.

[Dukefrukem]

I totally agree. I can actually recall almost every image from IB. Avatar is mostly a blur of blue and green.

Really??? Did you guys watch the same movie I did?? The night forest scene alone doesn't touch anything in IB.

[[ETM]]

So we're all different, with different tastes and visual memory... Who'da thunk it?

[number8]

The notion that Tarantino's films are carried by dialogue, I think, is an all-too-common misjudgment. The dialogue in Tarantino films are all build-up, and the conclusion of the discussions are almost always conveyed visually, either through action or his keen direction of actors' performances. The foot massage discussion? Kind of weak without the camera staying put as Jules pulls Vincent away from the door.

I think watching Avatar on mute would lose some of its quality, but it's still doable because of its visual feast. Watching QT films without its images, however, is completely pointless and is just like not watching it at all.

[balmakboor]

I can't fathom how much I disagree with this.

I don't think what he and I have said was meant to belittle Avatar's visuals so much as to correct the misconception that Tarantino can't craft an image.

I love Avatar btw.

[number8]

Really??? Did you guys watch the same movie I did?? The night forest scene alone doesn't touch anything in IB.

Avatar has pretty images. IB has powerful images. Find me a shot in Avatar more striking than Shosanna's face floating on the burning screen.

[Dukefrukem]

I pretty much felt the same as Jack Sully did as he was exploring the forest; tapping the mushrooms as they light up, looking at his feet hit the ground as the moss glowed around him, holding out his arms as the seeds from the tree landed on him... visually amazing and much more memorable than scenes in IB.


Avatar has pretty images. IB has powerful images. Find me a shot in Avatar more striking than Shosanna's face floating on the burning screen.

Ok that was pretty awesome but until you mentioned it i had completely forgotten it.

[balmakboor]

Really??? Did you guys watch the same movie I did?? The night forest scene alone doesn't touch anything in IB.

Somehow, I don't think that's quite what you meant. ;)

[Dukefrukem]

The notion that Tarantino's films are carried by dialogue, I think, is an all-too-common misjudgment. The dialogue in Tarantino films are all build-up, and the conclusion of the discussions are almost always conveyed visually, either through action or his keen direction of actors' performances. The foot massage discussion? Kind of weak without the camera staying put as Jules pulls Vincent away from the door.

I think watching Avatar on mute would lose some of its quality, but it's still doable because of its visual feast. Watching QT films without its images, however, is completely pointless and is just like not watching it at all.

Amazingly great point. That discussion, the dinner with Travolota and Uma (and then the OD scene), and the dialog at the bar in Death Proof*were the first that came to mind. All follow your example.

[number8]

Amazingly great point. That discussion, the dinner with Travolota and Uma (and then the OD scene), and the dialog at the bar in Death Proof*were the first that came to mind. All follow your example.

Not to mention that half of the most memorable moments in Pulp Fiction did not require dialogue (Marcellus' rape, Vincent's death, bullets missing Jules and Vincent, the Jack Rabbit Slim dance competition) or that some of the memorable dialogue scenes are aided by the visuals (Marvin getting his head blown off, the Mexican stand-off in the diner, and even Walken's gold watch speech having twice the impact because it's shot in a first person perspective).

[[ETM]]

Let's not go into extremes, both are equally ridiculous propositions in my mind, which is why I mentioned it in the first place. I just feel that, even though no one's disproving knocks on the quality of the screenplay and the dialogues in particular, suggesting they can be watched on mute is not entirely fair to the performances of the actors in Avatar in particular. Saldana did some incredibly subtle things with her voice, and Lang's delivery of even the most cliched movie bad-ass lines is so deliberate and steely-cold throughout the movie, he just makes it work all the way to the end.

[lovejuice]

;236172']http://21stcenturysocialism.com/article/going_traitor_avatar_versus_im perialism_01954.html
thank. that's an interesting read. can't say i agree with the author's defense of the film.

[Dead & Messed Up]

The difference in my mind is that Inglourious Basterds, like Quentin's best work, fires on all cylinders. Avatar fires on exactly one cylinder.

[[ETM]]

I'm so sorry I mentioned Tarantino. I can't comment at all anymore without sounding like one of those idiots who painted their faces blue for the premiere of Avatar, which I'm not.

[balmakboor]

;236364']I'm so sorry I mentioned Tarantino. I can't comment at all anymore without sounding like one of those idiots who painted their faces blue for the premiere of Avatar, which I'm not.

Actually, I believe I was the one who brought up Tarantino while I was going on about archetypes and stuff. Cameron also fits into that conversation. Tarantino uses archetypes in very clever and playful ways. Cameron uses them in ways that are as naked and bold as Aurthurian legend.

I'm not putting down Cameron's approach. He is kind of like a very popular version of John Boorman. And you all know what I think of Boorman.

[lovejuice]

Actually, I believe I was the one who brought up Tarantino while I was going on about archetypes and stuff. Cameron also fits into that conversation. Tarantino uses archetypes in very clever and playful ways. Cameron uses them in ways that are as naked and bold as Aurthurian legend.
good point. if anything, it shows how gifted he is as a movie director. he knows how to cut the crap and keep the essential no matter how banal that is. i think a great deal more of avatar and titanic than, say, lucas's love story.

[Barty]

;236172']I was reading an interesting article on a socialist website (Google news search, btw). Its author embraces Avatar as anti-imperialist, but his personal reading aside, he gave a rather interesting analysis of most major criticisms of the film, from right-wing to leftist, and the Vatican's. http://21stcenturysocialism.com/article/going_traitor_avatar_versus_im perialism_01954.html

The best political reading is the Na'vi have homesteaded their tree, and thus the attack is a completely illegitimate attack on private property. That's the Libertarian bent of the movie.

[Mysterious Dude]

The best political reading is the Na'vi have homesteaded their tree, and thus the attack is a completely illegitimate attack on private property. That's the Libertarian bent of the movie.
You've convinced me that the attack was illegitimate. I was on the fence until now.

[KK2.0]

;236157']He's an early adopter. I think I joined because of him. He's been constantly funny.

Just started following. He's mocking religious imagery. it`s a keeper, folks!

I followed Milla Jojovich during her Resident Evil shooting, she was quite entertaining describing the backstage dynamics, and seems like a down to earth celeb. "Yesterday shooting an ad to Chanel, today stepping on zombie guts, love my work LOL" so cute and yes, she writes LOL.

[Adam]

I was dragged to see this again last night and one thing it captures really well, for me, is the nature of scientific breakthroughs in today's day and age. I refuse to give Cameron credit for this, because I don't think this ever crossed his mind, but here goes: A major problem in 21st century America is that all our medical research is being undertaken by corporations' R & D departments. The government funds virtually no major medical/scientific studies because it entrusts corporations to do all the work for us. But of course corporations are very greedy. A health-care company will release a pill you have to take every day to control your illness, but they would never dream of releasing a pill that you take once that cures your ailment forever. That's just bad business. So anyway the mining operation in Avatar develops this amazing technology where a human being can control another mass with their mind! This is a breakthrough that could have all kinds of crazy real-world implications and tremendous benefits, but then the only thing they wind up using this fantastical technology for is to try and convince space monsters to let them cut down a tree. And that's what happens when you outsource your scientific research to corporations. I thought that was pretty timely and hilarious

[[ETM]]

the only thing they wind up using this fantastical technology for is to try and convince space monsters to let them cut down a tree.

Or, like, "convince space monsters" to move so they can get to the mindblowingly rich deposits of a room temperature superconductor, a.k.a. the Holy Grail of technology which makes a zillion other fantastical technologies possible?

[KK2.0]

Simplification makes everything sound dumb, i also don't see nothing wrong in using the Avatar technology to find a diplomatic solution, sounds like a logical application.

The fact that the corporation actually tryed that instead of attacking first, actually raises some question about the black and white morality i guess. Ultimately they used violence, which pretty much ruined every previous intentions though.

[Fezzik]

This was brought to my attention today by a fellow moviegoer:

Peter O'Toole's one sentence review of Avatar, as it appeared in the Independent.


"It's full of blue Barbie Dolls trying to catch rubber turkeys. It's the most gorgeous piece of nonsense I've ever seen."


I laughed. O'Toole is awesome.

[KK2.0]

Peter O'Toole's one sentence review of Avatar, as it appeared in the Independent.



classic :lol:

[[ETM]]

I laughed. O'Toole is awesome.

That he is.:D
Although that's technically two sentences.

[balmakboor]

;237294']That he is.:D
Although that's technically two sentences.

Fixed.

Full of blue Barbie Dolls trying to catch rubber turkeys, it's the most gorgeous piece of nonsense I've ever seen.

[Spun Lepton]

Such a conflicting film.

Technically, it's a-fucking-mazing. The CG people look incredibly realistic. The 3D is astonishing, focus-pulling in 3D worked a lot better than I would've anticipated. The 3D heatwaves and atmospheric changes were fantastic. Visually amazing. A-MAZ-ING.

The story could've been called James Cameron's Archetype Planet. There wasn't a story turn too obvious and predictable for him to, ahem, leap on the back of. Perfectly formulaic in every way, designed to appeal to the widest audience possible. (Although, given how much the movie cost, this probably wasn't such a bad idea.)

Performances were top-notch, although Worthington's real accent leaked through on occasion. Lang's performance kept me smiling. He really was perfect for the part.

Once the technology gets used more widely, Avatar will be obsolete in no time.

[Morris Schæffer]

I'm seeing it again on tuesday. I can't leave it at that one viewing. Maybe, just maybe, and God-willing, I'll walk away more satisfied.

[lovejuice]

Once the technology gets used more widely, Avatar will be obsolete in no time.
i agree and disagree with this statement. technically it will be remembered as the game-changer, and, i suspect, its boxoffice record remains for a long while. on the other hand, indeed, it's not too hard to employ the technology with a more cinematically satisfying result.

[baby doll]

It was pretty.

[[ETM]]

It's officially the first $2 billion film, and shows no signs of stopping soon.
Will pass Titanic domestically on Wednesday.

Insane.

[Dukefrukem]

;238522']It's officially the first $2 billion film, and shows no signs of stopping soon.
Will pass Titanic domestically on Wednesday.

Insane.

That's my guess too. I say about $2 mil a day. Only needs $6 mil. :pritch:

[Spun Lepton]

I would totally hair-tentancle that Na'vi chick. I'd hair-tentacle her brains out.

:|

[megladon8]

I would totally hair-tentancle that Na'vi chick. I'd hair-tentacle her brains out.

:|


Sounds like you've got a case of the Blue Depression.

You should seek psychiatric help immediately.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I still haven't seen this.

[[ETM]]

There are decent pirated copies available online now. I'm probably gonna borrow a projector and screen it for my folks at home on Monday.

[Scar]

I still haven't seen this.

You're not the only one.

[Watashi]

So Avatar is finally dethroned from being 7 weeks straight at #1 by.... Dear John.

[megladon8]

So Avatar is finally dethroned from being 7 weeks straight at #1 by.... Dear John.


Yeah, that blew my mind too.

[Pop Trash]

So Avatar is finally dethroned from being 7 weeks straight at #1 by.... Dear John.

The power of Nicholas Sparks commands you teenage girl!!!

[Ezee E]

I figured it'd be The Wolfman.

[[ETM]]

You're not the only one.

You guys should form some kind of underground resistance.... or a cult.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You're not the only one.

Apparently I kinda am.

[BuffaloWilder]

So, I saw this and didn't pay a cent to James Cameron.

They spent five hundred million dollars on this? It's - fucking ridiculous. I mean, sure - the ten foot tall cat girls are nice to look at, and everything is very pretty, but - come on, guys.

"Come on, bring your punk ass back!" or, whatever that line of dialogue was from early on in the movie.

[BuffaloWilder]

You know what it reminds me of? I have this comic, The Saga of Shaloman, in the bathroom that was self-published by a local comic store I used to go to, the Arlington branch of Lone Star Comics. It's basically a polemic against the constant warring and separation in the Middle East, and a reiteration of unity - which is all fine and well and good. But it does so through the most inane stereotypes and giant bounds of illogic that it just becomes ridiculous by the eighth page.

Essentially, that was this.

[Grouchy]

So I finally saw this yesterday.

I had a blast at the movies, true, and the 3D technology is really an advancement over earlier applications. It's an interesting film. Its themes are not subtle nor have any depth but they're interesting for an action film. The script is fucking perfect in the way it engages the audience from page one. I mean, how can you not feel for a handicapped man in way over his head in an adventure in another world? The actors are all perfectly cast, specially Stephen Lang.

On the other hand, the story is reiterative and everything that happens in the movie is completely predictable if you have ever seen one movie. Notably, this doesn't contradict my statement that the script is fucking perfect - its power of emotional manipulation weights more than the predictable plot turns. But it's also frustrating that Cameron is able to put so much detail into creating a believable alien world and that he has the imagination and the skills to create an adult sci-fi movie, and chooses the Hollywood way out of every problem. Then again, that's why he has made history in international box office twice already.

Specific things that bothered me:

Getting out of prison scene. Happened too fast and made the Michelle Rodriguez character nothing more than a movie contrivance. It was also pretty obvious, even in this moment, that she was gonna die. She was the equivalent of the black sidekick.
The dialogue sometimes crossed the line between movie statements and stupidity.
Poison Ivy bikini on Sigourney Weaver's body when she was taken to be healed. Stupid way to prevent nudity, took me completely out of the scene.
The remorse at killing fellow humans is never once brought up, even in passing conversation. Makes the Michelle Rodriguez character even worse, because she has no real reason to love the Na'vi other than natural compassion.
Although a lot of aspects of the Na'vi culture are explored, some basics of their day-to-day life are never commented upon. What do they eat? How do they have sex? We ALMOST saw that one. Seemed strange considering the literary background (Edgar Rice Burroughs) Cameron had brought up when commenting the film.
But other than all that, when was the last time Hollywood produced something this exciting? This movie is way better than Titanic, at the very least, and even if it's not a great movie and - contrary to Cameron's statements - it's only gonna make history because of its box office earnings, I enjoyed the hell out of it and I would watch it again a month or two down the road.

Alicia Keys fucking sucks, though.

[[ETM]]

Specific things that bothered me:

Although a lot of aspects of the Na'vi culture are explored, some basics of their day-to-day life are never commented upon. What do they eat? How do they have sex? We ALMOST saw that one. Seemed strange considering the literary background (Edgar Rice Burroughs) Cameron had brought up when commenting the film.

We see them eat. They eat meat and plants, mostly fruit, just like humans. They cook the meat with fire, at the center of the circle, and they all eat together, the more important members closer to the center. Hunters seem to be greatly valued, so I assume they are mostly carnivores. I don't think there's much more detail to go into when that's concerned.


Alicia Keys fucking sucks, though.

You mean Leona Lewis? I actually enjoy the song's hilariously obvious lyrics and her over the top performance, because the main theme is about the only thing I really like about the music. I wish there was a non-pop orchestral version of it.

[Dukefrukem]

So, I saw this and didn't pay a cent to James Cameron.

They spent five hundred million dollars on this? It's - fucking ridiculous. I mean, sure - the ten foot tall cat girls are nice to look at, and everything is very pretty, but - come on, guys.

"Come on, bring your punk ass back!" or, whatever that line of dialogue was from early on in the movie.

:|

[BuffaloWilder]

I'm sorry, it's just not good.

[Dukefrukem]

I'm sorry, it's just not good.

:|

[Sycophant]

Match Cut is now getting excerpts from my personal correspondence with friends about movies. I saw this last night in IMAX THREEDEE. This is what I had to say:


I saw Avatar last night. It was I think better and more entertaining than I expected, but it wasn't exactly very, very good.

Pretty, though. Certainly pretty.

and



America and the rest of the world gets shafted. Korea gets Avatar in 4D (http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/avatar-available-to-watch-in-4d-but-only-in-korea/).

and


I was surprised at how after 2.5 hours, Avatar left so much feeling undeveloped, like we only ever go the surface of anything. When Jake is talking about other girls from the Na'vi I was like "who the hell?" because I think only 4 Na'vi are given names. And most the human characters are about as rich as Wonder bread.

I'm not sure if the Native American/Africanization of the Na'vi is shameless, racist, symptomatic of white guilt, lazy, or just inevitable. Maybe it's some part of all those.

Really, though, the movie was pretty. I think that was what it mainly strove for, and it was doubtless a success.

Here's what I can't figure though: how is this movie so successful? I guess lots of people are really of the opinion that it's really good? Like a lot of the general populace? MY GOD, this movie is dorky.

[Spun Lepton]

Here's what I can't figure though: how is this movie so successful? I guess lots of people are really of the opinion that it's really good? Like a lot of the general populace? MY GOD, this movie is dorky.

Beacuse it's REALLY pretty and easily digestable entertainment. That's all. Let's not forget that Transformers 2 took in a ridiculous amount of money, and apparently that's nothing more than 3 hours of explosions and Megan Fox's butt.

[Dead & Messed Up]

It's also incredibly translatable. When you're working with the barest elements of the hero's journey, and drawing on hugely universal archetypes (the world tree, the noble savage), and drowning of all of that in dialogue-free action scenes, you can bet it's gonna cross cultures.

[Mysterious Dude]

I'm a little surprised that it was this movie that beat Titanic. I mean, Batman, Star Wars, Harry Potter, and the Lord of the Rings couldn't beat Titanic, but the one movie that finally beats it is... Avatar?

[Spun Lepton]

It's also incredibly translatable. When you're working with the barest elements of the hero's journey, and drawing on hugely universal archetypes (the world tree, the noble savage), and drowning of all of that in dialogue-free action scenes, you can bet it's gonna cross cultures.

Also, the subtext of beastiality is simply beautiful. Truly all animal/man relationships should be about touching hair-tentacles, er, I mean naughty bits.

(*looks around*)
Ahem.
(*looks around*)

WHAT?

[Skitch]

Also, the subtext of beastiality is simply beautiful. Truly all animal/man relationships should be about touching hair-tentacles, er, I mean naughty bits.

(*looks around*)
Ahem.
(*looks around*)

WHAT?
Apparently this post contains too much awesome for the parameters of our signiture guidelines, so I will just say, you're a smelly pirate hooker, and you should return to your home on whore island.

[Spun Lepton]

Apparently this post contains too much awesome for the parameters of our signiture guidelines, so I will just say, you're a smelly pirate hooker, and you should return to your home on whore island.

PIRATE?! How DARE you, sir!

[Skitch]

PIRATE?! How DARE you, sir!

Its impolite to make a grown man whom you hardly know weep laughy tears, sir.

[BuffaloWilder]

Also, the subtext of beastiality is simply beautiful. Truly all animal/man relationships should be about touching hair-tentacles, er, I mean naughty bits.

(*looks around*)
Ahem.
(*looks around*)

WHAT?

I agree with this post.

[Grouchy]

The more I think about this movie the more stupid it becomes.

I really shouldn't even think about it. I should focus on bestiality.

[eternity]

For Jake/Neytiri to really be considered a taboo case of beastiality, one of them would have to be (comparatively) a helpless animal, right? Pardon me if I sound stupid...

[Dead & Messed Up]

For Jake/Neytiri to really be considered a taboo case of beastiality, one of them would have to be (comparatively) a helpless animal, right? Pardon me if I sound stupid...

They're talking about the fact that sex for the Navi is when they fuse hair-tentacles. But that's also how Jake bonds with his animals. So he's kinda been having sex with animals the whole time.

[BuffaloWilder]

Also, ney'tari is technically a giant cat-girl alien - so, it's more 'furry' than it is beastiality.

So, thumbs up for that, I guess. Shame the movie had to be so terrible, though.

[Qrazy]

They're talking about the fact that sex for the Navi is when they fuse hair-tentacles. But that's also how Jake bonds with his animals. So he's kinda been having sex with animals the whole time.

I think sex for the Navi is both fusing hair-tentacles and putting your penis in her vagina.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I think sex for the Navi is both fusing hair-tentacles and putting your penis in her vagina.

They actually don't have p's or v's, which also means Cameron didn't include a scene where Jake discovers that his junk is missing.

[number8]

They actually don't have p's or v's, which also means Cameron didn't include a scene where Jake discovers that his junk is missing.

He cut it out. It's supposed to be in the baracks scene, right before Jake started playing with his hair. "Hey, what? Where's the -- Man, how'm I supposed to go to sleep without -- Hum, wait, maybe this thing...?"

[Qrazy]

They actually don't have p's or v's, which also means Cameron didn't include a scene where Jake discovers that his junk is missing.

Well that's lame, what a horse rapist.

[Dukefrukem]

confirms he's writing a novel (http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/02/16/avatar-the-novel-james-cameron-confirms-hes-turning-his-blockbuster-into-a-book/)

[Winston*]

Excerpt:


I gazed into her yellow eyes in the belly of the spirit tree. I looked longingly at her 10 foot tall frame, her blue skin, her feline ears, her prehensile tale. It was then I knew, though she was Navi'i and I was Avatar, we were meant to me. It was to be a love so strong that species lines could not contain us. A love so strong it could make unobtanium commonplace or drop the Hallelujah mountains right out of the sky.

[Spun Lepton]

Excerpt:

:lol: That's a joke, right?

[Derek]

:lol: That's a joke, right?

The fact that the question can even be asked shows what horrible, horrible idea this is.

[Qrazy]

The fact that the question can even be asked shows what horrible, horrible idea this is.

There are things you can do in books that you can't do in movies.

[Dead & Messed Up]

An excerpt from the prequel novel:


Quaritch punched at the viperwolf's face, landing blow after blow, failing to deter the bioluminescent beast's insatiable hunger. It growled and snapped at his face, and, for one horrifying moment, Quaritch thought the monster had won, that he was about to lose his life to this, an insignificant creature on an untamable planet. Then his fear spilled over into rage, and as its claws wrapped around his head, the viperwolf roared. Quaritch pulled his knife from its sheath and growled back, "You're not the monster here, Rover - I am."

[Derek]

There are things you can do in books that you can't do in movies.

Peanut butter sticks to the roof of your mouth.

[Winston*]

An excerpt from the prequel novel:

We should write this novel as a site, then publish it before Cameron.

[Qrazy]

Peanut butter sticks to the roof of your mouth.

If you smear peanut butter on a book it will taste better.

[BuffaloWilder]

Something tells me Cameron's one-liners won't work as well in a book.

[Raiders]

You know, I was just thinking the other day that there had not been enough money made off of Avatar.

[number8]

Something tells me Cameron's one-liners won't work as well in a book.

Something tells me people won't like it when the letters start floating away from the pages.

[Qrazy]

Something tells me people won't like it when the letters start floating away from the pages.

Pfft like Cameron would print his book. This is Kindle/Ipad content only.

[Spun Lepton]

I heard he's inventing The Book of the 21st Century. Apparently it's a total literary game-changer.

[megladon8]

Yeah that's some terrible writing.

So it'll fit in nicely with what we've already seen of the Avatar projects.

[Spun Lepton]

Mad Magazine's send-up of Avatar is actually pretty funny.

http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/03/03/exclusive-mad-magazines-avatar-parody/

[number8]

Sergio Aragones is always funny.

[StanleyK]

I was thinking about the line "You're not in Kansas anymore"; it is, obviously, a reference to The Wizard of Oz, when Dorothy realizes she's no longer in her world, but in a dreamland. But at this point she doesn't know she's dreaming it all.

Is it possible that Pandora is simply a hallucination by Jake and he's actually still in cryo and crippled? Could Avatar 2 open with him waking up for real and having to deal with his old life again? Should that be the case, would James Cameron have pulled the most expensive prank in history?

[[ETM]]

I don't think so.

[megladon8]

Even James Cameron isn't arrogant enough to do that.

[D_Davis]

Mad Magazine's send-up of Avatar is actually pretty funny.

http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/03/03/exclusive-mad-magazines-avatar-parody/


Sergio Aragones is always funny.

His art just keeps getting better.

That dude is so brilliant.

[[ETM]]

Even James Cameron isn't arrogant enough to do that.

He is, but he's definitely not stupid.

[Raiders]

I was thinking about the line "You're not in Kansas anymore"; it is, obviously, a reference to The Wizard of Oz, when Dorothy realizes she's no longer in her world, but in a dreamland. But at this point she doesn't know she's dreaming it all.

Is it possible that Pandora is simply a hallucination by Jake and he's actually still in cryo and crippled? Could Avatar 2 open with him waking up for real and having to deal with his old life again? Should that be the case, would James Cameron have pulled the most expensive prank in history?

Pretty sure the line has entered pop culture to the point it no longer references an actual dream but just a jarring change of scenery.

[Dukefrukem]

The wildcard is that we might be re-releasing the movie this fall. It's kind of gotten stomped out (in theaters) because of Alice in Wonderland. The word we're getting back from exhibitors is we probably left a couple of hundred million dollars on the table as a result. The question is the appetite still going to be there after the summer glut of movies. We're going to assess that. We're talking about maybe adding in additional footage and doing something creative.

oh and how about a 3D Titanic for 2012?


We're targeting spring of 2012 for the release (of a 3D version of Titanic), which is the 100 year anniversary of the sailing of the ship.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2010/03/james-cameron/

[BuffaloWilder]

Oh god someone pay him a trillion dollars and make him go away.

[[ETM]]

Oh god someone pay him a trillion dollars and make him go away.

What seems to be wrong? That same thing could be said about hundreds of people who are better choices for it.

[BuffaloWilder]

It could - but, I'm saying it about him specifically, though. Those other guys can wait their turn.

[angrycinephile]

I like that Cameron took over a decade long hiatus from making films, has been back in the spotlight for the last 6 months or so (if you start counting since when the first teaser for Avatar hit) and already everyone seems to be sick of him. And it's not hard to see why. I love that he apparently isn't happy about much money Avatar made and accuses Alice in Wonderland for stealing its thunder.

What Cameron needs is a financial disaster. Personally I can't wait for it to happen. He needs to make his Heaven's Gate. It would have been glorious.

Titanic in 3D is a terrible idea. Why turn a film about a major tragedy into some goddamn theme park ride?

[Dead & Messed Up]

Why turn a film about a major tragedy into some goddamn theme park ride?

One could argue that he already did. That guy hitting the propeller and spinning at the end has not sat well with me over the years.

[number8]

HINDENBURG IMAX.



Starring Sam Worthington.

[megladon8]

Titanic in 3D is a terrible idea. Why turn a film about a major tragedy into some goddamn theme park ride?


What, like this would be the first time this has been done?

There are filmmakers whose entire careers are based on that stuff.

[Skitch]

What Cameron needs is a financial disaster. Personally I can't wait for it to happen. He needs to make his Heaven's Gate. It would have been glorious.

Why?


Why turn a film about a major tragedy into some goddamn theme park ride?

Have you ever heard of Hollywood?

[[ETM]]

I love that he apparently isn't happy about much money Avatar made and accuses Alice in Wonderland for stealing its thunder.

So... someone does the math and tells you there was more interest in your film, but it was pushed out by new releases... and you say "no thanks, please take my money"? I for one would see it again in 3D with added scenes.


some goddamn theme park ride?

Is that what you think of 3D?

[angrycinephile]

;247919']So... someone does the math and tells you there was more interest in your film, but it was pushed out by new releases... and you say "no thanks, please take my money"? I for one would see it again in 3D with added scenes.

If my film had been in theaters for almost three months, become the highest grossing film of all time with its 725 million dollars domestically and 2,6 billions worldwide - then yes, I'd be pretty happy. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure Avatar is still playing on 3D-screenings around America. Plus 2D for that matter. Besides, it was already slipping in the charts before Alice in Wonderland came around.


Is that what you think of 3D?

I'm so not the right guy to give a verdict on 3D because in all honesty I've never seen one; as I've previously stated in this very thread I live in a smaller town in Sweden and our theater has yet to install a 3D-projector. By summertime I hear we'll get one. But yes, I do think people generally associate 3D with spectacle.

People can talk all they want about it being immersive but I still think a good deal of the audience wants the arrow and the helicopters coming towards you. A recent example of this I guess is Alice in Wonderland. I've read a number of reviews where people deeming the 3D pointless because "it does nothing cool with it". If James Cameron truly wanted to prove that 3D is the way of the future and not just a silly gimmick associated with monster movies and sci-fi he shouldn't have made a movie like Avatar in 3D, he should have made like a 3D chamber drama; proving that it's all about being immersive and that you don't necessarily need a great deal of action and spectacle to put 3D into good use. Every new 3D-film is now going to be compared to Avatar in a "What film had the coolest 3D effects?"-manner

When it comes to big American tentpole blockbuster releases 3D might be the way of the future but what about low-budget, independent cinema? European and Asian film industry? Will there ever be a time when they make movies like Wendy and Lucy and Tokyo Sonata in 3D. Is there even a point? Do people really need to see An Education in 3D? I don't think so. After all, 3D is expensive and problematic to shoot in. Hell, no movie really needs 3D. Good movies should be immersive without a technique like that.

[megladon8]

They don't even need to shoot the movie in 3D, though. Cameron did to sort of pioneer certain effects and technology.

But look at Clash of the Titans. It's going to be in 3D, and that wasn't even decided until loooong after it had finished filming.

Martin Scorsese actually thinks that the technology will work wonders on dramas. If I remember the quote correctly he said he'd love to see Precious in 3D.

I wouldn't. But I don't want to see Precious at all, really.

[Ezee E]

When it comes to big American tentpole blockbuster releases 3D might be the way of the future but what about low-budget, independent cinema? European and Asian film industry? Will there ever be a time when they make movies like Wendy and Lucy and Tokyo Sonata in 3D. Is there even a point? Do people really need to see An Education in 3D? I don't think so. After all, 3D is expensive and problematic to shoot in. Hell, no movie really needs 3D. Good movies should be immersive without a technique like that.

Same thing was said about the transition to sound and transition to color films.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Same thing was said about the transition to sound and transition to color films.

Do you think this is a similar type of advancement?

[[ETM]]

But look at Clash of the Titans. It's going to be in 3D, and that wasn't even decided until loooong after it had finished filming.

Cameron talked about it in the above interview and he all but said it will suck. They converted it in 8 weeks, which is way too fast and not done by the original filmmakers. I will never see a converted 3D film.

[Ezee E]

Do you think this is a similar type of advancement?
I'd like to think so.

[[ETM]]

I'd like to think so.

Me too. It's early to tell if it is the turning point like the other occasions, but in terms of radical change it's up there. However, color and sound became universal, which this should not be, by design.

[Dukefrukem]

One could argue that he already did. That guy hitting the propeller and spinning at the end has not sat well with me over the years.

Wasn't that cut out of the release and only in the trailers?

[Dukefrukem]

Have you ever heard of Hollywood?

Exactly. Part of the reason why I hate Black Hawk Down so much.

[Mysterious Dude]

Same thing was said about the transition to sound and transition to color films.
I consider it more similar to Cinemascope, which was used for a few movies in the 50's and 60's, then dropped out of use.

[megladon8]

;248077']Cameron talked about it in the above interview and he all but said it will suck. They converted it in 8 weeks, which is way too fast and not done by the original filmmakers.

I'm sure he thinks it will suck. He thinks everything sucks that he doesn't do. Do you really expect he's going to support another 3D movie at this point?



I will never see a converted 3D film.

Yes you will, at some point.

[megladon8]

Wasn't that cut out of the release and only in the trailers?


No, it was in the movie.

[number8]

I'm sure he thinks it will suck. He thinks everything sucks that he doesn't do.

He said The Hurt Locker is phenomenal!

[Morris Schæffer]

Exactly. Part of the reason why I hate Black Hawk Down so much.

What do you mean Duke?

[number8]

10-20 years ago, it used to be that independent filmmakers had to use Black & White 16mm film while Hollywood used 35mm color because of the cost. Now they use consumer-grade HD cameras while Hollywood is split between 35mm and high-end HD cameras. It's not a stretch to imagine a future where Hollywood is dominated by 3-D movies and independent filmmakers are forced to stay in 2-D.

I just want to see Scorsese take up his own challenge and make a movie like Precious in 3-D. Then you'll have the gates open.

[Dukefrukem]

What do you mean Duke?

The way humor was used in certain scenes, it felt like the movie was made to make a buck, not to pay tribute to the 9 marines that were killed and the hundreds of Somalians that were slaughtered in RL. I understand thats why EVERY movie is made, but it felt more like exploitation. Hate this movie so much.

[[ETM]]

I'm sure he thinks it will suck. He thinks everything sucks that he doesn't do. Do you really expect he's going to support another 3D movie at this point?

The 3D conversion will suck. And of course he supports other 3D films, he's selling the frakkin' 3D tech to them.


Yes you will, at some point.

No I won't and you can write it down somewhere and quote me as much as you want. I'd rather see everything in 2D.

[Morris Schæffer]

The way humor was used in certain scenes, it felt like the movie was made to make a buck, not to pay tribute to the 9 marines that were killed and the hundreds of Somalians that were slaughtered in RL. I understand thats why EVERY movie is made, but it felt more like exploitation. Hate this movie so much.

I guess I didn't think the humour was quite so extravagant. Perhaps the Bremner character was a bit much. Or MacGregor explaining the finer things about good coffee. :)

[Sycophant]

Oh god someone pay him a trillion dollars and make him go away.

Seems to me we're gonna pay him something like a trillion dollars to make him stick around.

[Mysterious Dude]

I wish filmmakers would still make black and white movies. I even kinda wish they would still make silent movies. Keep the art alive, Guy Maddin!

And I do not want to wear those fucking glasses every time I go to the movie theater.

[D_Davis]

I still haven't seen one of these newfangled 3D movies, except for Captain E-O and Honey, I Shrank the Audience.

[number8]

James Cameron just simply DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK, YO.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3id51767e5e16b09793c626f1eedc 0c5ea


The "Avatar" director was equally unsparing in his comments about those who don't accept global warming as fact.

"That's right," Cameron said. "I want to call those deniers out into the street at high noon and shoot it out with those boneheads."

Turning more serious, he added: "Anybody that is a global warming denier at this point in time has got their head so deeply up their ass I'm not sure they could hear me."

By making the environment the theme of his home video release plan, Cameron is sending a message.

"Look, at this point I'm less interested in making money for the movie and more interested in saving the world that my children are going to inhabit. How about that? I mean, look, I didn't make this movie with these strong environmental anti-war themes in it to make friends on the right, you know.

:lol:

[[ETM]]

I'd pay good money to see him meet Beck. There'd be asskicking.

[D_Davis]

James Cameron just simply DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK, YO.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3id51767e5e16b09793c626f1eedc 0c5ea



:lol:

Does this mean that for the next 10 years Cameron will be making documentaries on Global Warming? Will he develop a new kind of camera that photographs global climate change as it's happening?

[[ETM]]

Beck responds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CMffJcHi58)

So, someone actually watches this guy?

[lovejuice]

Does this mean that for the next 10 years Cameron will be making documentaries on Global Warming? Will he develop a new kind of camera that photographs global climate change as it's happening?
no. instead he'll develop a camera that runs on solar power and sucks in co2 as it operates. it'll be a game-changer.

[lovejuice]

anyway, thank to winston. now my rep point is the number of the beast.

[Morris Schæffer]

Avatar 2 to explore the underwater kingdom of Pandora:


We created a broad canvas for the environment of film. That’s not just on Pandora, but throughout the Alpha Centauri AB system. And we expand out across that system and incorporate more into the story – not necessarily in the second film, but more toward a third film. I’ve already announced this, so I might as well say it: Part of my focus in the second film is in creating a different environment – a different setting within Pandora. And I’m going to be focusing on the ocean on Pandora, which will be equally rich and diverse and crazy and imaginative, but it just won’t be a rain forest. I’m not saying we won’t see what we’ve already seen; we’ll see more of that as well.

[megladon8]

I was surprised there wasn't more focus on the ocean in the first movie.

Cameron is absolutely obsessed with the ocean and its creatures. It's rare he doesn't work that kind of stuff into his movies somewhere.

[[ETM]]

I was surprised there wasn't more focus on the ocean in the first movie.

Cameron is absolutely obsessed with the ocean and its creatures. It's rare he doesn't work that kind of stuff into his movies somewhere.

I guess that's why he didn't do it in Avatar.

Although a lot of the animals and plants were inspired by deep sea creatures.

[Scar]

Anyone watch the Bluray yet?

[Sven]

Anyone watch the Bluray yet?

I saw it playing at a store today. I have to admit, it looked intermittently neat and phony. About 50/50.

[Spun Lepton]

AAAAHHHHH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!

The DRM on the Avatar Blu-ray renders it unreadable by some Blu-ray players. DRM dumbasses strike again.

http://consumerist.com/2010/04/drm-ravaged-avatar-dvds-may-not-work-on-blu-ray-players.html

[balmakboor]

Yeah, I was in Best Buy today thinking about picking up the Avatar BR and they had signs all over the place saying I would probably have to upgrade my firmware to get it to play -- and they were offering to upgrade it for me for a fee those kindly folks. I saw that the damn thing doesn't have any bonus materials anyway and decided to Netflix it some day.

I ordered the Bluray of Vivre sa Vie this evening instead.

[MadMan]

My response to Avatar being released on Earth Day was the following: yes, buy this movie and be inspired to kill whitey if they're raping the environment.

Considering I'm sick of the first movie by this point (and I actually liked it and saw it in theaters), I have no interest in a sequel. Enough already.

[megladon8]

So, against my advice, my parents purchased Avatar. Not even on BluRay, either, but on regular DVD.

Seeing it at home on the TV really makes the flaws more apparent. Like, how James Cameron is a terrible writer.

[Mysterious Dude]

My mom watched it in 2-D, and said it was pretty obvious which scenes were meant to showcase the 3-D and which scenes weren't. For example:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/_spicyapple_/Avatar/scene080.jpg

vs.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/_spicyapple_/Avatar/scene023b.jpg

Possibly, it seems like more of a gimmick in 2-D.

[[ETM]]

My mom watched it in 2-D, and said it was pretty obvious which scenes were meant to showcase the 3-D and which scenes weren't. For example:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/_spicyapple_/Avatar/scene023b.jpg

Possibly, it seems like more of a gimmick in 2-D.

This is not really a gimmick - the focus goes from a tight closeup of her face to the tip of the arrow only when the Sprite appears.

I can recall only one truly in-your-face 3D moment - when Sully is on top of the Dragon gunship, and flicks four grenade safeties at the same time right into the camera in slo-mo. There were a few other moments where 3D is used well for impact (like Neytiri firing the final arrow straight into the camera in the last battle, for example, which I thought was cool in the circumstances) but there was no other moment of pure indulgence like that.

[megladon8]

For me the biggest in-your-face 3D moment was when Jake first starts running in his avatar body.

The camera goes behind his feet and he kicks the dirt up and back at the camera.

It just screams "this was made for 3D!"

[[ETM]]

Yeah, but it worked, didn't it? I mean, it's not like it didn't serve a purpose in the scene.... he was paralyzed and now he's running like hell and kicking dirt with his feet.

But seriously, I didn't realize it until now: the main criticism of 3D is that it's a gimmick that adds nothing to the scenes, and when it's obvious it does add something - it's labeled as pointless gimmick nonetheless? Can 3D not get a break?

[megladon8]

;257161']Yeah, but it worked, didn't it? I mean, it's not like it didn't serve a purpose in the scene.... he was paralyzed and now he's running like hell and kicking dirt with his feet.

But seriously, I didn't realize it until now: the main criticism of 3D is that it's a gimmick that adds nothing to the scenes, and when it's obvious it does add something - it's labeled as pointless gimmick nonetheless? Can 3D not get a break?


I didn't say it was gimmicky, I was just pointing out that it was the scene that stood out most in my mind as using the "STUFF FLYING AT YOUR FACE" 3D technique.

[Ezee E]

Coraline used 3D better than any other movie that I've seen thus far.

[[ETM]]

I didn't say it was gimmicky, I was just pointing out that it was the scene that stood out most in my mind as using the "STUFF FLYING AT YOUR FACE" 3D technique.

Again, I'm just saying - it added to the scene. I actually liked the added 3D emphasis both times I saw it in 3D. The grenade moment I mentioned above was, for me, indulgence and didn't serve the story.

Let me say this differently - OF COURSE a 3D film will have "made for 3D" moments, because it is bloody 3D and it would be stupid if it didn't use the added dimension whenever it's appropriate, even in a "flying at your face" way. It's a completely valid choice for a filmmaker.

[Winston*]

Coraline used 3D better than any other movie that I've seen thus far.

Yup.

[[ETM]]

Coraline used 3D better than any other movie that I've seen thus far.

I wish I could have seen it in 3D. My girlfriend has (huge Gaiman fan) and she adored it.

[megladon8]

Coraline used 3D better than any other movie that I've seen thus far.


Yeah, agreed 100% there.

[MadMan]

I rather enjoyed How to Train Your Dragon in 3D. I think its far easier to best utilize the technique with animated movies.

[Mysterious Dude]

;257161']But seriously, I didn't realize it until now: the main criticism of 3D is that it's a gimmick that adds nothing to the scenes, and when it's obvious it does add something - it's labeled as pointless gimmick nonetheless? Can 3D not get a break?
I guess I don't see what makes Avatar's use of 3-D that much more sophisticated than, say, one of the Three Stooges punching the camera in any of their 3-D films.

[megladon8]

I guess I don't see what makes Avatar's use of 3-D that much more sophisticated than, say, one of the Three Stooges punching the camera in any of their 3-D films.


Avatar used 3D to make its world feel more lush and immersive.

The Three Stooges made a fist come at your face.

[[ETM]]

I guess I don't see what makes Avatar's use of 3-D that much more sophisticated than, say, one of the Three Stooges punching the camera in any of their 3-D films.

I haven't seen a single Three Stooges film so I can't compare.
I was merely saying - if it's obvious 3d, it doesn't automatically make it bad.

The coffee commercial that played in front of Avatar, however, was horrendous... as it was the first thing I had ever seen in 3D, I was ready to give up on the whole thing, it was that incredibly annoying and in-your-face (gave me an instant headache). Fortunately, the movie was soothing in comparison.

[Mysterious Dude]

Avatar used 3D to make its world feel more lush and immersive.I could accept "layered," but one thing Avatar is not is "immersive." I hear people say this about Avatar a lot, and I think I'm ready to declare that it is objectively false. To be "immersed" you are supposed to be surrounded (typically, in liquid). The image of Avatar never surrounds you. It just floats a little off the screen.


The Three Stooges made a fist come at your face.I think Avatar does a lot of that, too.

[[ETM]]

I don't like "immersive" either. I think people just throw the word around because it's used a lot incorrectly. Avatar doesn't surround you, and it doesn't "float" - it kind of opens up its space beyond the screen.

[megladon8]

If you're unwilling to accept the use of the word "immersive" as being not the text-book definition but a way of describing the feeling Avatar gives of a real alien world opening up in front of you, then I'm done with this conversation, because that's just being stubborn.

The intent of the word is pretty clear.

[Sven]

I think that "more immersive" is legitimate. I mean, after all, which is "deeper":
a) A 2-dimensional image that looks flat
b) A 2-dimensional image that appears deeper

[number8]

The next step is to shoot a movie for IMAX Dome. Now that's immersive.

[number8]

See, this is actually cool:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2010-04-30-cameron-rover_N.htm?csp=34&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+usatoday-TechTopStories+(Tech+-+Top+Stories)&utm_content=Google+Reader

[Wryan]

The next step is to shoot a movie for IMAX Dome. Now that's immersive.

Originally I thought all IMAXes were domes because that's the only way I saw IMAX, at the Discovery Place IMAX Dome in Charlotte when my dad and I would go see science stuff or for field trips or whatever. That was my introduction. I saw Avatar on a "regular" IMAX screen and in 3D, but the screen didn't seem that much bigger, just a bit bigger.

[eternity]

Originally I thought all IMAXes were domes because that's the only way I saw IMAX, at the Discovery Place IMAX Dome in Charlotte when my dad and I would go see science stuff or for field trips or whatever. That was my introduction. I saw Avatar on a "regular" IMAX screen and in 3D, but the screen didn't seem that much bigger, just a bit bigger.
You were watching it on a Liemax, perhaps?

[Mysterious Dude]

See, this is actually cool:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2010-04-30-cameron-rover_N.htm?csp=34&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+usatoday-TechTopStories+(Tech+-+Top+Stories)&utm_content=Google+Reader
This is just like when Stanley Kubrick helped fake the moon landing!

[Wryan]

You were watching it on a Liemax, perhaps?

Not according to IMAX's official website, presuming.

[Spun Lepton]

The Oatmeal shows us How To Choose a Banshee.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/banshee

[Yxklyx]

This was enjoyable even though it was very derivative, predictable and portrayed characters in one dimension.

[number8]

So yeah, this movie is getting a re-release on August 27, with 8 minutes of extra footage.

Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilk it.

[[ETM]]

So yeah, this movie is getting a re-release on August 27, with 8 minutes of extra footage.

Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilk it.

I'm actually hoping our local multiplex gets a 3D screen by then so I can go see it in my home town.

[Dukefrukem]

8 minutes? That's all? fuck that shit.

[Spinal]

I wish they would go the other direction with these things sometimes. Like ...

AVATAR ... now eight minutes shorter! Now Avatar is better than ever because we've taken out eight of the crappiest minutes out of the original theatrical release!

[Grouchy]

I wish they would go the other direction with these things sometimes. Like ...

AVATAR ... now eight minutes shorter! Now Avatar is better than ever because we've taken out eight of the crappiest minutes out of the original theatrical release!
Like the Blood Simple director's cut that's actually shorter than the theatrical. Now that's honesty right there.

[Dukefrukem]

James Cameron Will Make Record-Setting $350M From 'Avatar' (http://www.deadline.com/2010/07/exclusive-james-cameron-will-make-record-setting-350m-from-avatar/)

[Kurosawa Fan]

This one either.

[Dukefrukem]

This one either.

I had to enter the Dark Knight thread to understand what you were talking about. :|

[Kurosawa Fan]

I had to enter the Dark Knight thread to understand what you were talking about. :|

:lol:

[Dukefrukem]

What's in the extended version;


"There's a pretty powerful emotional scene at the end which is Tsu'tey's death ... which happens off-camera in the original release. [In the original film] he kind of falls off the back of the shuttle and that's the last that you see of him but here we follow through. We have this emotional scene with Jake [Sully] and Neytiri and some other Na'vi that gather around him in the forest,"


There's a big scene we called the Sturmbeest hunt," Cameron said. "The Sturmbeest is an animal that basically will be new to audiences because all of the Sturmbeest stuff got cut out. Once I took out the hunt, I took out the scene where I establish it [and] I took out the moment where it appears in the final battle. All that stuff's now been reinstated so there's gonna be a lot of Sturmbeest in your diet.