James Cameron's Avatar (2009)

[Qrazy]

Personally my favorite use of 3D in the film were the fragments of ash which fell after the big fire. They float slowly towards the viewer and then fade away.

[[ETM]]

Personally my favorite use of 3D in the film were the fragments of ash which fell after the big fire. They float slowly towards the viewer and then fade away.

Similar to that - the "spirits of the forest" looked amazing in several instances.

[Morris Schæffer]

So, if I'm understanding this Morris, you prefer 3D be used solely as an obvious gimmick?

I want to be immersed period. Perhaps I need to re-assess exactly what it is that I was expecting, but the image appeared relatively flat at times. But perhaps the story was indeed more boring than I'd care to admit at this point. Odd than that I don't think that Dances With Wolves is boring.


Personally my favorite use of 3D in the film were the fragments of ash which fell after the big fire. They float slowly towards the viewer and then fade away.

Moments like those were very impressive. Ditto for the jellyfish-like creatures.

[Watashi]

Well, James Cameron is no Dan Brown.

[Bosco B Thug]

There's been criticisms that the film is too cliched and derivitive, and then defenses citing the aptness in using archetypal story and mythic history to retrofit for both post-Post-colonial times and state-of-the-art visual technology. This works well to characterize the film's odd, unsuccessful attempt to marry classical storytelling (in its alternatingly admirable and puerile revisionist social parable) and an embrace of it, with its pioneering cinematic vision, where the presence of a camera seems completely beside the point to the illimitability of the CGI medium. Of course, this is a problem with any CGI-fest, from a CGI animated film to the camera-inoperable tricks of a Peter Jackson movie, but what makes it so artistically detrimental here is Cameron's not-inelegant but more than a little repetitive, pre-patterned directing. It's either the variation of close-ups that make up an intimate dialogue scene, his admittingly sturdy handling of action sequences, or the overly, breathlessly omnipresent handling of his more fantastic CGI sequences. Between, there is little pauses and variegation. The film has a rushed pace, too invested in its traditional screenwriting to properly justify its overwhelming intentions of aesthetic immersion, like Children of Men does (rest assured, I still don't really like that movie). Despite very impressive 3-D immersion and the incredible (and I do mean it, the shots utilizing the reflection off plexiglass shielding were especially impressive) textures Cameron captures in order to make Avatar such an eye-popping and sumptuous work, the film would be more than a little flat.

It needed to be either more visually theatrical or less hollowly verite in order for the story and Cameron's serviceable work to really make this a solid and unified whole.

I agree with Derek that the moments of tragedy and awful destruction were the moments where the film's theoretical intentions were the most fit to be used, and so were the best, most effective scenes.

[Mysterious Dude]

Pretty sure he wasn't trying to throw stuff at your face. He was trying to give a layered, rounded, three-dimensionality to the imagery.

That seems quite different from the immersion I was promised. Seems more like the mulitplane animation of Bambi.

[[ETM]]

That seems quite different from the immersion I was promised.

I thought that supposed immersion is what most naysayers feared? At least judging by the 3D scepticism thread.

[Melville]

I thought the 3D looked kind of tacky. It also really disoriented my eyes initially, though that might have been because I was in the front row.

[Mysterious Dude]

;226947']I thought that supposed immersion is what most naysayers feared? At least judging by the 3D scepticism thread.
I'm not aware of that.

I just don't understand what makes Avatar so different from other 3-D films. It seems like the same old moving stereoscope to me.

[Watashi]

I thought the 3D looked kind of tacky. It also really disoriented my eyes initially, though that might have been because I was in the front row.
Uh..... yeah. I got to my IMAX showtime ridiculously early because the back row is a must to see 3D properly.

[Melville]

Uh..... yeah. I got to my IMAX showtime ridiculously early because the back row is a must to see 3D properly.
I got there about 2 minutes before the movie started, because I'm an idiot.

[Wryan]

After a while, it was all just 2D to me for the most part, except when things bounced or floated at you for brief moments.

[number8]

After a while, it was all just 2D to me for the most part, except when things bounced or floated at you for brief moments.

This was my reaction the first time I saw it in a Real3D. After a while, you don't notice the 3D anymore.

On IMAX 3D, perhaps because of the size of the screen, I don't know, I was more aware of how subtle it got for most of the movie. Things like a table behind another table actually had the sense of distance between them. It's pretty amazing.

I have a lot of complaints about the film. The 3D would not be one of them.

[Spinal]

I thought this was fairly disappointing. You have a long slog through 2 hours of dopey narrative to get about 30 minutes of fairly solid action sequences. The lead character is thoroughly bland. In fact, most of the characters are. The willingness of the alien race to accept Jake over and over again strains credibility. The single-minded aggression of the military commander is lazy plotting. Occasionally the film stumbles across an interesting idea (about the tension between our reliance on machinery and our lost connection to nature) almost as if by accident. However, the exploration of those themes does not rise above the level of a moderately thoughtful Nickelodeon cartoon. The effects are integrated nicely. They do not feel overly showy. But I still don't like the design of the alien race. The facial features are bland and unappealing. Hair that jacks into other living creatures? Oh lord.

I guess it's not all that bad, but I can't imagine trying to watch this a second time on my home system. There just isn't enough there.

[number8]

I guess it's not all that bad, but I can't imagine trying to watch this a second time on my home system. There just isn't enough there.

I will never watch this at home. There is absolutely no point.

[Ezee E]

Dang. This made $16 million yesterday.

[Qrazy]

It needed to be either more visually theatrical or less hollowly verite in order for the story and Cameron's serviceable work to really make this a solid and unified whole.

This seems like an odd complaint to me.

[Ivan Drago]

I will never watch this at home. There is absolutely no point.

Agreed. 3D sucks at home anyway, from my experiences.

[Raiders]

"It's as good as Welles' The Lady from Shanghai."

- Spinal

:pritch:

[Derek]

"Almost tops The House Bunny!" - Spinal

[Watashi]

"Avatar: On the same level as Pooh's Heffalump Movie!" - Spinal

[Spinal]

"Avatar lacks the warmth and humanity of the Tinto Brass masterpiece Cheeky!" - Spinal

Wait, I don't have to use quote marks. I can just say it.

[Raiders]

"James Cameron hasn't yet figured out that the key to a successful movie is a naked Asia Argento."

-Spinal

[Spinal]

"James Cameron hasn't yet figured out that the key to a successful movie is a naked Asia Argento."

-Spinal

To be fair, this is true of many directors.

[Mysterious Dude]

"Everybody dogpile on Spinal!"

- Raiders

[Skitch]

I have a lot of complaints about the film. The 3D would not be one of them.
Thank you, and this touches a nerve. Complain all you want about the film, I'll listen to those points. But I get the D-bags that just complain about the 3-D, and I just can't hear those compaints. It just comes across as bitching so people will listen to them, or to be different, or something.

[Derek]

"Everybody dogpile on Spinal!"

- Raiders

What? Raiders didn't say that. I don't think you understand the game, Antoine.

[Mysterious Dude]

Thank you, and this touches a nerve. Complain all you want about the film, I'll listen to those points. But I get the D-bags that just complain about the 3-D, and I just can't hear those compaints. It just comes across as bitching so people will listen to them, or to be different, or something.
Why does any criticism of the 3-D inspire this reaction from you? Are you just convinced of its utter perfection?

[Derek]

It just comes across as bitching so people will listen to them, or to be different, or something.

It's for the chicks. Always for the chicks.

[Skitch]

Why does any criticism of the 3-D inspire this reaction from you? Are you just convinced of its utter perfection?
No, I just been getting a lot of "story was excellent, 3-D was subpar" reaction from people, and I don't understand that at all.

[Morris Schæffer]

This was my reaction the first time I saw it in a Real3D. After a while, you don't notice the 3D anymore.

On IMAX 3D, perhaps because of the size of the screen, I don't know, I was more aware of how subtle it got for most of the movie. Things like a table behind another table actually had the sense of distance between them. It's pretty amazing.

I have a lot of complaints about the film. The 3D would not be one of them.

Then perhaps that is how it is supposed to be and I needn't worry about having seen the movie in imperfect conditions.

[Bosco B Thug]

This seems like an odd complaint to me. I've struggled a bit untangling it myself, my blurb having been more than a little hastily written. The "either" shouldn't even be in there, since both options leads toward essentially the same outcome... well, or my formulation was even more subtle and esoteric than I can even remember now!

I really was trying to find a more forgiving way of looking at what every detractor has pretty much been getting at: instead of just saying Cameron's directing and the film's shopworn screenplay are no where near as interesting or worthwhile as the FX and the visual textures it creates, how about blame the very idea of taking a shopworn tried-and-true screenplay (complete with voice-overs and propulsive, discreditably cosmetic ellipses of time) and then rendering the "simple power" of its story ineffectual by mediocre directing the sheer non-virtue of its virtual verisimilitude. Thus, its visuals should have been more "theatrical" (i.e. wielded more a sense of cinema's artifice - as it is, sure we have the artifice found in its grandiose environment and those shots floating above and aside those seed-jellyfish spirits, but again, that's the camera - aka our, the audience's, surrogate eye and mental palette - being "too powerful to be true," too limitlessly "neutral" to actually be the minds of the audience being story-told - which is why the bits of tragedy are the best parts, because it finally asks us to mourn for the aliens, instead of just gawk at their world... [the 3-D ashes you mention work much like Schindler's List's red coat]), or its "verite" immersion should have been less hollow (it should've gone all-out formally rigid, Children of Men style, or better yet, something like Barry Lyndon would really get 3-D textures to linger).

I also have to say, this movie was waaaay way to long.

[[ETM]]

I also have to say, this movie was waaaay way to long.

I really had to pee for at least two hours, and I didn't want it to end. Perceptions are hilarious.

[Dukefrukem]

I will never watch this at home. There is absolutely no point.

the PS3 is getting 3D Blu-ray ya know.

[number8]

the PS3 is getting 3D Blu-ray ya know.

I repeat. There is no point.

[megladon8]

Home 3D technology still sucks balls.

Unless you have a 3D TV. Which no one but James Cameron has.

[Dukefrukem]

Home 3D technology still sucks balls.

Unless you have a 3D TV. Which no one but James Cameron has.

2010 they're going into mass production.. right around the time Avatar is released on Blu-ray.

[SirNewt]

I've gotta say I found the scenes with people and aliens pretty jarring. The aliens didn't really look life like, so I could buy into their animated world on it's own but the shots where real scenes were mixed with the CG didn't work.

Also, I've done a bit of graphics programming and I'm beginning to doubt how instrumental Cameron is to this whole film. I mean director's have always had to take technical people at their word but make-up, set construction, etc. doesn't even approach the black box treatment computers get. Especially computer graphics. I'm tempted to chock the film's successes up to a very well run effects crew with artists and programmers in a state of very good of communication.

[Raiders]

I've gotta say I found the scenes with people and aliens pretty jarring. The aliens didn't really look life like, so I could buy into their animated world on it's own but the shots where real scenes were mixed with the CG didn't work.

Also, I've done a bit of graphics programming and I'm beginning to doubt how instrumental Cameron is to this whole film. I mean director's have always had to take technical people at their word but make-up, set construction, etc. doesn't even approach the black box treatment computers get. Especially computer graphics. I'm tempted to chock the film's successes up to a very well run effects crew with artists and programmers in a state of very good of communication.

I promise you that the technicians and programmers were not making the decisions on shot selection, angles and probably not even in how the world would look. I'm confident Cameron, in conjunction with his set and art production team, created the idea of the world and had those computer wizards create it. That's not to take away their own creative input but I guarantee they were not the ones shaping the film.

I'm sure Cameron, one of the most egotistical men in Hollywood, was not letting other people run a project he has dreamed of for almost 20 years.

[[ETM]]

...I've done a bit of graphics programming and I'm beginning to doubt how instrumental Cameron is to this whole film...

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/26/091026fa_fact_goodyear

I don't even have to quote anything in particular from there.

[number8]

So I caught the Conan episode with Cameron the other night, and they showed a clip of Neytiri teaching Jake about the banshee. Wow, it looked terrible for some reason. Is that what it looks like flat? It looked like Delgo or something.

[megladon8]

People are saying this movie contains "hidden messages" of anti-war and pro-environmentalism. (http://ca.movies.yahoo.com/feature/hmg-avatar-hidden-messages.html)

Really? You consider that "hidden"?

I suppose District 9 also had a "hidden" message about the apartheid in Africa.

In fact, come to think of it, I now realize that United 93 contained some hidden messages regarding 9/11.

[Qrazy]

Conservatives prime themselves to hate films with anti-war messages? What the fuck is wrong with the world.

[Watashi]

Avatar's on pace to have another 77 million box office performance. That's no drop-off whatsoever.

Yeah. I think Avatar is going to safely make its budget back.

[[ETM]]

http://hijinksensue.com/comics/2009-12-21-triumph-of-the-usurper.jpg

[Qrazy]

Cartoon sad eyes get me every time.

[Morris Schæffer]

Avatar's on pace to have another 77 million box office performance. That's no drop-off whatsoever.

Yeah. I think Avatar is going to safely make its budget back.

That's pretty remarkable. When was the last time that happened? Oh right, I remember. :)

[number8]

That's pretty remarkable. When was the last time that happened? Oh right, I remember. :)

Yeah, The Dark Knight.

[Morris Schæffer]

Yeah, The Dark Knight.

Is that a fact? :) In any case, a more worthy of such a feat motion picture.

[Ezee E]

Is that a fact? :) In any case, a more worthy of such a feat motion picture.
Yeah. Dark Knight has the record for biggest second weekend by like five movie tickets.

Then again, it appears that it was in nearly a thousand more theaters.

[megladon8]

The Dark Knight > Avatar


Just to clarify.

[Melville]

That's pretty remarkable. When was the last time that happened? Oh right, I remember. :)
Is the question "when was the last time a movie made that much money two weeks in a row?" or is it "when was the last time a movie had no second-weekend drop?" Apparently The Blind Side's second-weekend take was 17% larger than its first weekend:
http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/weekends/smallestdrops.htm

[Qrazy]

The answer to Schaeffer's rhetorical question was Titanic guys. Or at least I think that's what he was getting at.

[Melville]

The answer to Schaeffer's rhetorical question was Titanic guys. Or at least I think that's what he was getting at.
I'm pretty sure everybody understood that. Though now I can't tell if you're being facetious in implying otherwise. You're probably being facetious.

[Morris Schæffer]

Yeah, that's what I meant Qrazy, but I also, for some reason, thought Titanic was the only one to manage that feat.

[Qrazy]

I'm pretty sure everybody understood that. Though now I can't tell if you're being facetious in implying otherwise. You're probably being facetious.

I don't even know anymore. My life is facetious.

[Dukefrukem]

Is that a fact? :) In any case, a more worthy of such a feat motion picture.

It needs 68 mil internationally to overtake Dark Knight's total international gross.

[[ETM]]

I love how Avatar got 4 more screens over the weekend. I'm imagining a construction crew building a 3D multiplex over the last week.

[balmakboor]

The family finally got dug out with my brother-in-law's snowblower and we when to see this. All four of us were pretty much blown away. The plot and characters are like an advertisement for the power of myth and I loved it for that. It's very similar to George Lucas and Tolkien by way of Jackson in that respect. For that matter, Cameron has always known how to harness archetypes. I found the world to be one very much worth getting lost in for three hours. It was a wonderful mixture of the alien and the familiar. I definitey thought most often of Pocahontas and Miyazaki.

I really don't subscribe to any of the complaints people have had. I thought the story and characters worked very well for the piece. I even thought the music worked fine. Sure, it was pretty reminiscent of Titanic and maybe something more exotic would've worked better, but I certainly didn't find anything awful about it like I'd been led to expect.

[angrycinephile]

Am I the only one that saw it in 2D? I live in a small, shitty town in Sweden and needless to say our theater only showed it in 2D. Make no mistake though, it's still an impressive film. The scenes with Neytiri and Jake flying around the floating rocks and the battle sequences looked pretty amazing even without 3D.

The film is still not the second coming though. It's pretty generic (story wise), and predictable, and sometimes quite tedious. The love story is really not much better than the one in Titanic and I never really thought Jake's love for Pandora and its people came through as much as I wanted it to.

Plus one-dimensional villains are always extremely boring.

I would take The Abyss or T2 over it any day. By far.

[Dukefrukem]

Am I the only one that saw it in 2D? I live in a small, shitty town in Sweden and needless to say our theater only showed it in 2D. Make no mistake though, it's still an impressive film. The scenes with Neytiri and Jake flying around the floating rocks and the battle sequences looked pretty amazing even without 3D.

The film is still not the second coming though. It's pretty generic (story wise), and predictable, and sometimes quite tedious. The love story is really not much better than the one in Titanic and I never really thought Jake's love for Pandora and its people came through as much as I wanted it to.

Plus one-dimensional villains are always extremely boring.

I would take The Abyss or T2 over it any day. By far.

No, I saw it in 2D first.

[Winston*]

I can't believe I liked a movie where the MacGuffin is something called "unobtainium".

[Ezee E]

Going to try and see this today.

[[ETM]]

I can't believe I liked a movie where the MacGuffin is something called "unobtainium".

It does sound like a joke, but that's actually used (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium) as a term in many circles. In this case, it's a room temperature superconductor.

[Winston*]

;228132']It does sound like a joke, but that's actually used (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium) as a term in many circles. In this case, it's a room temperature superconductor.
Okay, but if you're going to call something that in a movie, you're going to need a line explaining where the term came from otherwise it just comes across as laughable. Could've done with a line explaining what it actually does as well, showing a piece of it floating in Giovanni Ribisi's office isn't really enough.

[Winston*]

The bit where the bad guy's robot pulls out a knife is so funny to me.

EDIT: Also the bit where he rapes that dragon and then is like "You're mine now!". This movie is ridiculous.

[[ETM]]

Could've done with a line explaining what it actually does as well, showing a piece of it floating in Giovanni Ribisi's office isn't really enough.

I've known what it does long before watching the film. You just don't know your physics, W.

[Raiders]

You sort of explain why they don't need to explain exactly what it is when you call it a "MacGuffin." The audience doesn't care.

And I thought it was fairly well known about the term. Hell, The Core even used it as an inside joke.

[number8]

Unobtanium is a joke. It's a joke term used by scientists and sci-fi writers to refer to rare materials. But what's so funny about its use in Avatar is that it didn't seem like Ribisi was using it as a term. The way it is in the movie sounded like Cameron actually named the rock Unobtainium, which is the equivalent of naming a character who appears in the third act to save the hero Mr. Deuce Exmachina.

[Melville]

I had never heard of the term before someone mentioned it in this thread.


The way it is in the movie sounded like Cameron actually named the rock Unobtainium, which is the equivalent of naming a character who appears in the third act to save the hero Mr. Deuce Exmachina.
According to that Wikipedia article, "There have been repeated attempts to attribute the name to a real material," so it's not that far-fetched, although it still comes off as a bit silly.

[[ETM]]

Of course, it would have helped if there was an actual scene explaining why it's important in the movie itself, but it was quite fun deducing it - superconductors are, of course, highly useful in various technological applications, but I'd wager anti-gravity devices would prove to be most tempting: unobtainium levitates when placed in a magnetic field because of the Meissner effect, which would explain the floating "Hallelujah Mountains" in the film: large quantities of unobtainium in the rocks levitate because of Pandora's magnetic field.
Also, it would be reasonable to presume it plays a great part in the "global network" of living things, as it would facilitate extremely transfer of large amounts of energy and data through organic matter.


I don't know, thinking about this stuff (as well as the biology of the flora and fauna) without having it spelled out in the film was one of the more fun aspects of the experience for me and everyone I talked to.

[number8]

It's important cuz it's an oil metaphor, see.

[[ETM]]

It's important cuz it's an oil metaphor, see.

...okay.

[Qrazy]

;228177']Of course, it would have helped if there was an actual scene explaining why it's important in the movie itself, but it was quite fun deducing it - superconductors are, of course, highly useful in various technological applications, but I'd wager anti-gravity devices would prove to be most tempting: unobtainium levitates when placed in a magnetic field because of the Meissner effect, which would explain the floating "Hallelujah Mountains" in the film: large quantities of unobtainium in the rocks levitate because of Pandora's magnetic field.
Also, it would be reasonable to presume it plays a great part in the "global network" of living things, as it would facilitate extremely transfer of large amounts of energy and data through organic matter.


I don't know, thinking about this stuff (as well as the biology of the flora and fauna) without having it spelled out in the film was one of the more fun aspects of the experience for me and everyone I talked to.

I don't really understand how the waterfall on one of those floating mountains works. It doesn't seem like the process of evaporation would occur fast enough to replenish the water supply.

[[ETM]]

I don't really understand how the waterfall on one of those floating mountains works. It doesn't seem like the process of evaporation would occur fast enough to replenish the water supply.

It doesn't. Again, perhaps it does on Pandora? I mean, if it's even water - it could be some other liquid, since there's no O2 in the atmosphere.

[Derek]

I don't really understand how the waterfall on one of those floating mountains works. It doesn't seem like the process of evaporation would occur fast enough to replenish the water supply.

Heh, I wondered that as well.

Update your sig already.

[Qrazy]

Heh, I wondered that as well.

Update your sig already.

It's too hard to rate things. I'm not against rating or anything I just find it to be a pain in the ass lately because it hasn't been reflecting how much I liked or disliked a film appropriately. Maybe I'll switch to the 1-10 system but I don't feel like that's going to make it any better.

[Fezzik]

;228279']It doesn't. Again, perhaps it does on Pandora? I mean, if it's even water - it could be some other liquid, since there's no O2 in the atmosphere.

According to an interview with Cameron, there is O2 in the atmosphere, but there are also several gases toxic to humans.

It was a really neat piece. If I find it, I will post the link.

[Ezee E]

The true IMAX 3D screen was sold out for rest of the day.

Dang.

[[ETM]]

Come to think of it - it might perhaps be the end of a long rain season in the region where the floating mountains are. Not all of them have waterfalls, so it's plausible that some of them gather moisture naturally and release the excess water over a period afterwards.

[[ETM]]

According to an interview with Cameron, there is O2 in the atmosphere, but there are also several gases toxic to humans.

Indeed, this is what I found:

Pandora's atmosphere is a poisonous (to humans) brew of Nitrogen, Oxygen, Carbon Dioxide, Xenon, Ammonia, Methane and Hydrogen Cyanide.

[Dukefrukem]

Made another 20 mil on Monday, bringing it to number 47 alltime.

[Ezee E]

Got my ticket for New Year's Day online. Will show up pretty early so I can see it right.

About time.

[Melville]

Made another 20 mil on Monday, bringing it to number 47 alltime.
We've probably already talked about this before, but I find it interesting that movies revolving around the Iraq war or the war on terror have been roundly rebuffed by audiences, while movies that engage with those things in an allegorical fashion, specifically The Dark Knight and Avatar, break box office records. They're typically very different types of movies, so it's not surprising, but I still wonder if a lot of people respond to the themes when they are explored in a general situation, but dislike them when they are made specific to a real-world situation.

[Raiders]

Most people really don't see the allegories. I don't know a single other person who has even brought up the under-the-surface stuff when discussing Avatar. It's all about the effects and the big, loud entertainment, which is something Cameron's film offers in droves.

[Raiders]

To put it differently: the allegory, the "message" the film may be offering is something that comes up secondary in coversation, if the people even tune into it at all. It's essentially icing on the cake. They go for the bombast, for the technology and the effects. They go to be wowed and entertained. And then, after all that is exhausted, they can justify the film even more by talking about how it attempts to reflect our current militaristic and social situations.

Cameron's film isn't really about those implied parallels to current global affairs; it's about a film-geek creating the ultimate 3D adventure film. He rounds out the film by adding that other stuff in. People are OK with that and it may even elevate the film for being "about something." But when a film makes the allegory its raison-de-etre, that's less appealing. That has to come up first, and it frightens people away.

[Melville]

Most people really don't see the allegories. I don't know a single other person who has even brought up the under-the-surface stuff when discussing Avatar. It's all about the effects and the big, loud entertainment, which is something Cameron's film offers in droves.
Yeah, I guess that's true. But both of those films really don't leave their themes under the surface: they're right on top, or at least they seemed that way to me. So it seems worth wondering if people respond to the themes without directly relating them to real-world events. I guess in the case of Avatar, though, people just naturally root for the heroic underdog, unless they're given an explicit reason not to.

[Melville]

Cameron's film isn't really about those implied parallels to current global affairs; it's about a film-geek creating the ultimate 3D adventure film. He rounds out the film by adding that other stuff in. People are OK with that and it may even elevate the film for being "about something." But when a film makes the allegory its raison-de-etre, that's less appealing. That has to come up first, and it frightens people away.
Well said. But if a large number of people are getting the films' "message", then it's interesting to me that relatively touchy subjects are readily accepted when they're offered in a sufficiently dazzling package.

[Fezzik]

Yeah, I guess that's true. But both of those films really don't leave their themes under the surface: they're right on top, or at least they seemed that way to me. So it seems worth wondering if people respond to the themes without directly relating them to real-world events. I guess in the case of Avatar, though, people just naturally root for the heroic underdog, unless they're given an explicit reason not to.

I've actually been a little frightened at the number of people I talked to who wanted the Na'vi to lose because Jake was a race traitor.

[Melville]

I've actually been a little frightened at the number of people I talked to who wanted the Na'vi to lose because Jake was a race traitor.
Yikes. Well, that's a reason not to root for the heroic underdog.

[Qrazy]

I've actually been a little frightened at the number of people I talked to who wanted the Na'vi to lose because Jake was a race traitor.

While I don't agree with that position, he is kind of killing a large number of human beings who are just following orders. That fact should have had more gravity in the film.

[[ETM]]

While I don't agree with that position, he is kind of killing a large number of human beings who are just following orders. That fact should have had more gravity in the film.

This is true, although it is always shaky ground once you get into the details. It was probably easier to portray the company as a straight up adversary which would have no problem in eliminating all opposition if shown mercy, and once they set out for the Tree, it's literally the whole world or them.

Also, Jake's complete "betrayal" shows just how far gone is humanity at that point. I wish there was more material on Earth itself in the film, beyond Jake's plea to Eywa. It's kind of unnerving how easy it is to accept the Na'vi utopia even from this day and age, while there still seems to be hope, I can only imagine what it would look like coming from a world where forests are a fairy tale.

[number8]

While I don't agree with that position, he is kind of killing a large number of human beings who are just following orders. That fact should have had more gravity in the film.

This reminds me of Uwe Boll's rant that it's hypocritical to denounce the American government and still support the troops in Iraq, because if the soldiers are really good people who deserve to be supported, they should have said "No" to Bush and deserted.

[Qrazy]

This reminds me of Uwe Boll's rant that it's hypocritical to denounce the American government and still support the troops in Iraq, because if the soldiers are really good people who deserve to be supported, they should have said "No" to Bush and deserted.

Well Uwe Boll's a bit of an asshat because if you say no and desert you can then be court martialed and shot. In general and in the case of Avatar some people may be there because they want to be and believe it's a just war (this may be because they genuinely believe the people are savages and they can take what the want, or it may be because they have been misinformed by propaganda or their superiors). Other people may be there because they signed up because they wish to support their country even if they don't believe this is a just war ('We fight on that lie.'). Other people may be there because they signed up for benefits or what have you and it's simply a job. Others may feel that it's an unjust war and don't want to fight but are too scared to not fight (both because of a court martial and because they believe the Na'vi may well kill them anyway). Whatever their reasons may be they are still human beings and they are still dying. Even if all the German soldiers in WWII believed the worst possible Nazi social Darwinist ideology (and not all did), they still had families. They were human and they suffered. Even if the film didn't explore the moral intricacies of these issues at the very least I'm looking for some aftermath shots of the battlefield and all the dead on both sides. Some sense of 'we may have won but at such a cost'.

[number8]

Well Uwe Boll's a bit of an asshat because if you say no and desert you can then be court martialed and shot.

It's Uwe Boll.

But I think he was talking about the Generals. He seems to think that the military higher-ups should have ordered the troops to pull out and commit mutiny on Bush. Since they didn't, they're all villains.

On the rest of your point, Cameron kind of made sure to make the whole thing black-and-white (and it's silly, I agree) with that one shot of all the soldiers nodding and hoorahing when Lang was making a speech on why the Na'Vi has to be destroyed. And that one bald soldier's constant "GET SOME!" seems to be purposely placed to represent the mindset of all the human soldiers.

[Qrazy]

It's Uwe Boll.

But I think he was talking about the Generals. He seems to think that the military higher-ups should have ordered the troops to pull out and commit mutiny on Bush. Since they didn't, they're all villains.

On the rest of your point, Cameron kind of made sure to make the whole thing black-and-white (and it's silly, I agree) with that one shot of all the soldiers nodding and hoorahing when Lang was making a speech on why the Na'Vi has to be destroyed. And that one bald soldier's constant "GET SOME!" seems to be purposely placed to represent the mindset of all the human soldiers.

Yeah those are definitely key moments which reaffirm the whole good guys vs bad guys thing the film devolves into.

[lovejuice]

On the rest of your point, Cameron kind of made sure to make the whole thing black-and-white (and it's silly, I agree) with that one shot of all the soldiers nodding and hoorahing when Lang was making a speech on why the Na'Vi has to be destroyed. And that one bald soldier's constant "GET SOME!" seems to be purposely placed to represent the mindset of all the human soldiers.
not to mention, those guys are more like mercenaries than american soldiers. the comparison between iraq and pandora is not quite valid. unobtanium might play a big role on both wars, but our war is still ideologically inspired. lang might be a lot of things, but he's hardly a racist or an earth supremacist.

[Melville]

not to mention, those guys are more like mercenaries than american soldiers. the comparison between iraq and pandora is not quite valid. unobtanium might play a big role on both wars, but our war is still ideologically inspired. lang might be a lot of things, but he's hardly a racist or an earth supremacist.
But the subcontracting of the Iraq war to mercenaries was a major news issue, so I think that comparison is apt. Also, I don't think the film should be read as a direct allegory for the Iraq war, but rather an allegory for a whole class of conflicts, including the Iraq war (made obvious by the "fight terror with terror" line) but probably more directly related to the European invasion of the Americas.

EDIT: actually, Africa is probably a better analogue, since it wasn't colonized to the same extent as the Americas, and was largely just plundered.

[number8]

not to mention, those guys are more like mercenaries than american soldiers. the comparison between iraq and pandora is not quite valid. unobtanium might play a big role on both wars, but our war is still ideologically inspired. lang might be a lot of things, but he's hardly a racist or an earth supremacist.

Maybe not an Earth supremacist, but whenever he speaks to the troops, he would always refer to the Na'Vi as savages and a threat to human lives. He never really tells the soldiers that they have to get Unobtainium at all cost—even though that is exactly what they're there for.

I don't think it could get more Iraq than that. The target is wealth, but the sale of the war is based on security.

It just makes the soldiers really freakin' stupid, because obviously the Na'Vi wouldn't attack Earth or anything.

[lovejuice]

Maybe not an Earth supremacist, but whenever he speaks to the troops, he would always refer to the Na'Vi as savages and a threat to human lives. He never really tells the soldiers that they have to get Unobtainium at all cost—even though that is exactly what they're there for.
i think, lang's "savages" is hardly the same thing as cortez's without the concept of God or, at least, white man's burden. if anything, it sounds pattonic, a blank derail against the other side just to pump your men up.

[Qrazy]

So that whole thing about the Iraq war being about oil. Has that been born out practically at this point? I've heard arguments from both sides but no concrete evidence from anyone really. Have we consolidated land/pipeline routes? Or is the 'American friendly' new political system supposed to give us discounts or?

[megladon8]

My friend saw this and hated it.

He then proceeded to tell me that he downloaded it and watched it on his computer screen.

I then proceeded to tell him that he has yet to see the movie.

[Watashi]

Funny that you say that meg since you posted this in this thread pages back:


I didn't say it was, and again, it's not a problem inherent to the technology.

I think it's awesome, and I would love to see the movie in IMAX 3D.

Let's say I see the movie on a standard screen, and I'm not too taken with it.

I guarantee you there will be people here commenting on my review saying that "(I) didn't see it on IMAX 3D, so my opinion isn't valid".

That's the kind of crap that I don't like, and unfortunately will be extrapolated by the fact that only a select few moviegoers will get to see it that way.

Bottom line: the technology's cool. It's people that suck.

[megladon8]

Yeah, and I was proven wrong.

[number8]

Does that mean that Avatar is the first film which you think the presentation matters?

[megladon8]

Does that mean that Avatar is the first film which you think the presentation matters?


Well to be completely clear I think presentation matters to an extent with every movie. That is, I think watching a movie via a shaky cam-recording on a computer screen is not really getting the full experience. Same goes for watching a movie on a cell phone or some such thing.

But as for a movie where I feel a theatrical (3D) viewing is absolutely essential, then yes, I'd say this is pretty much a first.

And I appreciate now what Cameron means when he says he's trying to get people to go to the movies more. This is not a "watch it at home on your 20" Magnavox" movie.

[Skitch]

I thought the film was more a parallel of Native American Indians and the history of humanity as a general whole, rather than Iraq. And then a few days later I heard Cameron say the same, so...yeah...

[Raiders]

I thought the film was more a parallel of Native American Indians and the history of humanity as a general whole, rather than Iraq. And then a few days later I heard Cameron say the same, so...yeah...

Right. And WALL-E had nothing to say about modern environmentalism because Andrew Stanton said so.

[Ezee E]

I thought the film was more a parallel of Native American Indians and the history of humanity as a general whole, rather than Iraq. And then a few days later I heard Cameron say the same, so...yeah...
I had the same impression. Guess I'll find out tomorrow.

[Skitch]

Right. And WALL-E had nothing to say about modern environmentalism because Andrew Stanton said so.

Are you implying Cameron was lying in the interview I saw with him? I mean, he wrote it, I would guess he would know what he intended to write about better than anyone.

[Raiders]

Are you implying Cameron was lying in the interview I saw with him? I mean, he wrote it, I would guess he would know what he intended to write about better than anyone.

Lying? Not necessarily, but, a) a creator's word should never be fully trusted and, b) why would I resign myself only to what he says he intended and not what I believe to obviously be there, whether he intended it or not?

[Skitch]

Lying? Not necessarily, but, a) a creator's word should never be fully trusted and, b) why would I resign myself only to what he says he intended and not what I believe to obviously be there, whether he intended it or not?

That's a bizarre perspective.

[number8]

That's a bizarre perspective.

Not at all.

[megladon8]

I think both analogies - the war over oil in Iraq, and North America's history with the native tribes - are very much present in the film.

I would say it's being pretty stubborn to think that only one of them is the "right interpretation", because elements of both co-exist in the story and universe.

[Qrazy]

So that whole thing about the Iraq war being about oil. Has that been born out practically at this point? I've heard arguments from both sides but no concrete evidence from anyone really. Have we consolidated land/pipeline routes? Or is the 'American friendly' new political system supposed to give us discounts or?

Anybody?

[D_Davis]

Anybody?

I've only heard anecdotal evidence form soldiers and people who know soldiers who say that if you don't think this war is for oil you need to pull your head out of your ass.

[Mysterious Dude]

Directors lie all the time. I think Paul Thomas Anderson said There Will Be Blood had nothing to do with oil, too.

[Qrazy]

I've only heard anecdotal evidence form soldiers and people who know soldiers who say that if you don't think this war is for oil you need to pull your head out of your ass.

Alright but I've also heard anecdotal evidence from the son of some prominent political scientist who says that the notion that the war is for oil is nonsense... he gave some reasons but none of them (from either side) seemed based upon actual concrete facts (one side cites our dependence and need for the oil, the other side cites the depth of our oil reserves)... so if the war is for oil there must be some evidence for this right?

[D_Davis]

Follow the money....doesn't it all lead to Halliburton and Blackwater?

[D_Davis]

If it's not for oil, what is it for? We're certainly not stopping terrorism (ha!) or making things better over there.

Maybe the war is over blowing stuff - like a good summer blockbuster.

[Rowland]

Seems to me the Iraq War (and Afghan War etc.) is part of a perpetual cycle to keep the cogs of the war machine greased, for the most obvious reason. You know, money. Every facet of the US Military has been sold out to corporate industry, who make billions off our tax dollars.

[Melville]

I don't think you can really simplify such an event to one cause. It seems to me that the war occurred due to a whole host of things: solidifying or maintaining American influence in the region (and on its oil wealth); the natural consequence of the influence of the industrial-military complex in U.S. policy; yes, a continuation of the war on terror, probably more in terms of rhetoric and ideology than practicality, though some of the people involved in starting the war probably did think that there really were WMDs around there somewhere; overthrowing a dictator that America had a long-term grudge against; and George Bush's generally insane strike-first, you're-either-with-us-or-against-us, I'm-on-a-mission-from-God-to-maintain-U.S.-world-domination policy. There are probably a whole lot of other reasons too.

[Qrazy]

I don't think you can really simplify such an event to one cause. It seems to me that the war occurred due to a whole host of things: solidifying or maintaining American influence in the region (and on its oil wealth); the natural consequence of the influence of the industrial-military complex in U.S. policy; yes, a continuation of the war on terror, probably more in terms of rhetoric and ideology than practicality, though some of the people involved in starting the war probably did think that there really were WMDs around there somewhere; overthrowing a dictator that America had a long-term grudge against; and George Bush's generally insane strike-first, you're-either-with-us-or-against-us, I'm-on-a-mission-from-God-to-maintain-U.S.-world-domination policy. There are probably a whole lot of other reasons too.

Being in a war also solidifies the power of the regime. Homeland security. Fear. Etc. And yes there are many reasons and this is all well and good but I'm still wondering if there is any evidence one way or the other for the oil issue.

[Melville]

Being in a war also solidifies the power of the regime. Homeland security. Fear. Etc. And yes there are many reasons and this is all well and good but I'm still wondering if there is any evidence one way or the other for the oil issue.
I was mostly responding to Davis. I don't know the answer to your question.

[Ezee E]

This is definitely more about the takeover of the Native Americans than the Iraq War. With that, it's merely okay. A technical achievement, sure, but also a bore, and very, very predictable. I can't say that there's actually a good action sequence here, something James Cameron was a master of.

Visual Effects are amazing as I forgot to even think that it was CGI. Especially with the use of flowers and those spirit floaters, which provide the best moment of the movie to me.

Also, too many plot conveniences. How come nobody notices Michelle Rodriguez pulling away from the battle? Shouldn't the avatar cases have some type of security, especially after what just occurred? Seemed way too easy for them to steal it.

11:50 AM showing. Sold out. I walked right through with my internet ticket, but it turned out I skipped in front of 100 people in front of me, thinking they were in the buyers line. Nobody said anything. Lucky me.

[SirNewt]

I think you guys and just about everyone is over discussing this movie a bit.

If you're looking for a subtle critique of any particular human conflict you won't find it here. Cameron has taken a bunch of standard Hollywood tropes and mashed them together into a setting in which they make little sense. Technology vs. Nature, Intruder vs. Aboriginal, new self vs. old self; substitute good ol fashioned Bible thumping with our greatest contemporary evil, unbridled corporatism toss them into the far future and you've a setup that makes pretty much no sense at all. Why is this corporation in such a hurry? Why aren't the natives being exploited to do the work (that's pretty classic colonialism). Why aren't Earths governing bodies involved? Why do soldiers fight so eagerly an enemy that so clearly cannot strike back in any meaningful way? No Avatar comes off less as a warning for the future and more as a hodgepodge what if scenario that probably makes green party members pee themselves.

And somehow the films two main messages, war is bad and heedless exploitation of nature is bad are generating controversy! No one is arguing with those standbys. And if republicans, conservatives what have you are upset by the film, well then they either must be nursing a guilty conscience or a bit oversensitive.

The core conflicts of Avatar are so poorly constructed so ill-thought through that boredom quickly sets in. Our vapid barely there hero suddenly finds himself in a beautiful world where he can walk again, where cute alien princesses fall in love with him. Such complexities! I wonder why he defects? I'm sure given the choice anyone would go back to being a paralyzed friendless marine who gets shouted at all the time.

done ranting for now maybe I'll finish this and clean this up into an actual review later.

EDIT: BTW I did not see this in 3D. So maybe that's why there wasn't any depth.

[[ETM]]

I think you guys and just about everyone is over discussing this movie a bit.

That's about the strangest thing anyone has ever said about a movie.

[Ezee E]

;229344']That's about the strangest thing anyone has ever said about a movie.
Definitely not true.

[number8]

There's no such thing.

[[ETM]]

Definitely not true.

Depends on who and what you mean.

[lovejuice]

just got back from the second viewing. 3d imax does help the movie. a lot. (i first watched it in 2d. big mistake.) there is unrealized potential here. a backstory between weaver and the na'vi shaman should have made a more interesting movie. i also want to see a guillera warfare, instead of both sides putting all their chips into one final battle. that would have been more realistic and provide a solid base for a good story.

back to the iraq/pocahontas argument from the last page. seeing the movie again, i realize the conflict is so poorly written that in fact it cannot be said to resemble any historical war. cameron borrows elements from here and there, but not even bush's war can be simplified into such a manichean paradigm.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Seeing this today with my brother-in-law and nephew. I've kept my expecatations low so that I can hopefully just enjoy it for what it is.

[D_Davis]

Being in a war also solidifies the power of the regime. Homeland security. Fear. Etc.

Personally, this is what I think the war is about. Our country has a serious case of JG Ballard's War Fever. Also, we have a military so we need to use it to justify its astronomical cost.

[Barty]

This box office run is staggering. Jaw dropingly staggering, especially worldwide.

[lovejuice]

This box office run is staggering. Jaw dropingly staggering, especially worldwide.
indeed. like titanic, it really does have freaking legs. and its first week is already high enough.

[Skitch]

This box office run is staggering. Jaw dropingly staggering, especially worldwide.
I LOVE it. I love following it. While this isn't Camerons best film, he is one of the best out there, I wish him enough success that he constantly has a blank check.

[Adam]

I wasn't crazy about Avatar, but I am crazy about a thought I just heard one of the Filmspotting guys bring up: Maybe Cameron intentionally wrote all of his human characters as such broad stereotypes because he was trying to make a point that in this huge, sprawling movie, the most complex and nuanced character was created digitally (Zoe Saldana). That idea gives Cameron way too much credit, I think, but it's still interesting

[number8]

1 billion in 17 days. That's 150 days faster than The Dark Knight.

[lovejuice]

I LOVE it. I love following it. While this isn't Camerons best film, he is one of the best out there, I wish him enough success that he constantly has a blank check.
i haven't looked at all time box office for a while. (perhaps, 10 years.) what's a sorry bunch of movies! even if i don't care for avatar, i hope it will destroy everything and sit right up there with titanic.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Nope. It's undeniably a HUGE step for digital effects, and visually it's out of the park, but the story is so, so unbelievably dull, and the action soon follows suit. It felt every bit as long as its running time, the score was, well, I hate to be redundant, but dull as well, and the acting.... yeah, dull. And basically, my review is as imaginative as every aspect of Cameron's film, effects and cinematography notwithstanding.

EDIT: It's basically Fern Gully with bullets.

[megladon8]

Jen and I felt more-or-less the same as you did, KF, though we definitely enjoyed it more.

As a visual and auditory experience, it's second to none, and we pretty much enjoyed it on that level and ignored the characters and plot.

[Skitch]

i haven't looked at all time box office for a while. (perhaps, 10 years.) what's a sorry bunch of movies! even if i don't care for avatar, i hope it will destroy everything and sit right up there with titanic.

While I enjoy most of the movies on that list, I agree, I don't feel like they belong there. I hope Avatar sets a record so high its untouched for a decade...by anything other than Cameron, that is. ;)

[lovejuice]

While I enjoy most of the movies on that list, I agree, I don't feel like they belong there. I hope Avatar sets a record so high its untouched for a decade...by anything other than Cameron, that is. ;)
i enjoy them too, but who would have guessed dead man's chest and revenge of the fallen would make that much money? the international record is even worse.

[KK2.0]

I think you guys and just about everyone is over discussing this movie a bit.

over analysis is like the oil of the Match-Cut machine :P

but yeah, the film is juvenile but i'm not saying that in a negative way, and i'm sure that's the idea Cameron had from the start, and a less risk-taking project to help make 3D/Imax popular and profit.

It reminded me something Coppola said during the 'Redux' interviews, that in the original cut he wanted the most people to enjoy it because he needed money, he spent four years and all his fortune trying to finish the movie, and I believe that it would be too much to watch it tank at the box office after all that.


EDIT: BTW I did not see this in 3D. So maybe that's why there wasn't any depth.

http://www.instantrimshot.com/ :D

[Ezee E]

I like this less and less the more I think about it.

[Watashi]

I like this about the same the more I think about it.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Alright, my usual twelve-point summary of a movie most have already seen but I have not:

1) Those who say this is about Pandora are correct. This film is a speculative NatGeo masterpiece buried inside a facile narrative.

2) Sam Worthington was dull. He shouldn't've been.

3) Pretty cool when Jakesully connected to his banshee thing and flew around with Neytiri. As I watched, I realized I hadn't felt so deeply and profoundly affected by a romantic couple flying around, free from gravity...since Wall-E.

4) Who doesn't love mythic trees? The Vikings settled for just one, but Cameron gives us two. I love the notion of Gaia represented in a cultural and scientific manner by Old-Tree-Server, which can apparently upload and download collective memories. Very clever. Keeps the tree vital as both symbolic and practical target.

5) Am I to assume that Old-Tree-Server downloaded commands to all those beasties in the woods? Kind of odd, but worth it to see those Hammerhead Rhinos do their thing.

6) Sigourney Weaver was dull. She shouldn't've been.

7) Ebert called this anti-war. I suspect that's because he left before the film solved its narrative with a concerted effort by thousands of people to violently attack aggressors. If anything, this film supports the idea of war as a solution.

8) Question. Joel David Moore's character gets shot, de-Avatars himself, falls to the ground. We don't see him for the rest of the final battle, but presumably he's still in that portable house where they Avatar with their Avatars. So why can't he help out Jakesully?

9) I liked how we got that nice closing shot of Giovanni Ribisi. It's like Cameron knew he left the character without any resolution at all, and he wanted to rub it in our faces. "See! See what you can get away with if you have enough spectacle?!"

10) Stephen Lang was dull. He shouldn't've been.

11) I saw the film in IMAX 3D, but the 3D was dodgy due to my seat, which was in the middle and to the side. The action played with strange strobe-like effects, and I took the glasses off during exposition scenes, which eased the pain in my eyes. I guess this film's success means 3D is here to stay, and I'd better get used to it. But aside from a couple of cool small effects, I just...don't...get it. What immersed me was the flora and fauna, not the dimensionality.

12) Like Titanic, Cameron falls into the trap of telling a story that's so archetypal it borders on irritating. Like Titanic, he saves that rickety shit with constantly impressive special effects.

[EvilShoe]

8) Question. Joel David Moore's character gets shot, de-Avatars himself, falls to the ground. We don't see him for the rest of the final battle, but presumably he's still in that portable house where they Avatar with their Avatars. So why can't he help out Jakesully?
There's a scene following this where you can see his character leave the portable house, and going back into war fully armed.

[Sxottlan]

Having now seen the film in 3D, I really don't think it brought much to the experience personally.

[Morris Schæffer]

2) Sam Worthington was dull. He shouldn't've been.

6) Sigourney Weaver was dull. She shouldn't've been.


10) Stephen Lang was dull. He shouldn't've been.

Cameron has been wringing some exceptional performances from his leads going back to 1984's The Terminator. True, Arnold doesn't have to say much, but it's hard NOT to see Cameron's hand in the way that the performance was moulded to maximize terror and efficiency. Same with Sigourney Weaver in Aliens, a perf which ignites with vitality, power and authority and she's a darn lass!! And then there's Harris' Bud Brigman fighting to save his ex in The Abyss in that intensely acted near-death sequence. Or how about Paul Reiser playing a villain in Aliens who's damn near slimier than the titular characters. What I hoped wouldn't happen, in fact did: Cameron pulled a Lucas and worried about the tech first and foremost. It's not quite on the level that Lucas did it, but who can believe that the Canadian beard didn't become over-infatuated with his toys? Fuck 3d and Aliens. Go make True Lies 2 with Arnold now just to ease my pain. And bring back Bill Paxton. Even if he has to play a chair.

[KK2.0]

"Avatar 2: Earth Strikes Back" will be the movie everyone expected the first one to be.

you heard it here first

[eternity]

http://web.me.com/pascalboogaert/Site/foto3.html

[[ETM]]

I like this about the same the more I think about it.

Yes. I saw it for the second time yesterday, and the experience has not diminished at all. I noticed a lot of smaller details this time, and nothing came up as a flaw that I hadn't noticed before.

I went with my gf and some friends - a girl was seeing it for the 4th time, and a guy - 6th already. He's the guy who saw it first at the same viewing as me, and had absolutely no idea what it was or what it looked like. I think he's gonna see it again.

Also, spontaneous applause again this time - this was monday at 3PM, PACKED, lots of kids with parents, they all absolutely loved it.

[Adam]

The only movie I've seen more than two times in a theater is Timeline, ridiculously

[[ETM]]

The only movie I've seen more than two times in a theater is Timeline, ridiculously

Besides Avatar, I have only seen The Lost World and Two Towers twice, although both times I was with someone who was paying for the tickets (and my company, I guess). Six times is ridiculous, of course, but it's the perfect example of just how much money this movie is still going to make.

[Dukefrukem]

The only movie I've seen more than two times in a theater is Timeline, ridiculously

I've seen quite a few movies multiple times. Including the Matrix, ID4, Reloaded, the Star Wars rerelease.

[number8]

If my memory serves me right, there were only three movies I saw in theaters more than once last year.

Up, 3 times.

Inglourious Basterds, 4 times.

Avatar, twice.

[Fezzik]

If my memory serves me right, there were only three movies I saw in theaters more than once last year.

Up, 3 times.

Inglourious Basterds, 4 times.

Avatar, twice.

I think my three are the same. I'm trying to remember others but am coming up empty.

I used to see movies multiple times in theaters as a rule, but finances are tight.

Back in the mid-nineties I was battling some severe depression, and went to see The Lion King after class 28 days in a row . Luckily, with my student ID tickets were like $3 at the time. That's by far my record.


EDIT: Thought of a few more from this year: Zombieland, Watchmen and Star Trek (all twice)

[Pop Trash]

Back in high school I saw Forrest Gump and Pulp Fiction twice in theaters. Oh yeah I also saw:

Titanic about five times in theaters.

I hardly ever see things twice in theaters any more.

[Ivan Drago]

Last year I only saw Watchmen twice and Star Trek 3 times in theaters.

[Ezee E]

Children of Men, There Will Be Blood, and The Departed were three times each in the theater.

[balmakboor]

Some movies I've seen more than once in the theater:

E.T. - 5 times
Pink Floyd the Wall - 5 times
Empire of the Sun - 3 times
A.I. - 4 times

I know there must be one or two more, but nothing's coming to me right now.

[BuffaloWilder]

Oh my god. This can't be real - if it is, I'm certainly going to go to the seventh circle of hell for laughing at it.


"The past 7 nights in a row my wife has asked me to have sex with her, and I just havent been in the mood. Scratch that. I’m incredibly horny most of the time, but I dont feel attracted to her anymore. The sight of her naked literally does nothing for me, and I’m frightened by that. Instead I imagine Neytiri. Her majestic grace and boundless beauty as well as the alien mystery about her. I want to fly off to pandora and live with her, to be with her always. I would worship her as she deserves. I’d do anything to just to touch her, to smell her.

She’s the perfect woman, and i feel like this life here has lost its spark. Where is the magic in humanity. Just a few days ago, my son asked me some question about what happened in Avatar. I dont even remember what it was, but after I told him, I started crying. Right in front of him. All I can think about is how depressing it is that I will never reach pandora. I almost vomited while I cried. It was the most pathetic thing I have ever done. Im in my 30’s for god’s sake. I have to remain strong for my son. Right? Right?"


I'm a hardcore fan with Avatar, so many times I would even try to escape reality with lucid dreaming, I would be in Pandora where I would often train with Tsu'tey in the forest and help Neytiri with the hunt, but one day as I was talking to Neytiri, we went to my hammock for a private talk. She immediately said, "You know you could live with us forever.." I gave her a confused look and she continued, "We understand that you live on earth and you REALLY wish to live here". I then said "How..How did you know?" She then giggled and said "Because we've been watching you, skxawng!"

This was a dream come true and I almost cried right there. She then said, "I talked with Eytukan and he agreed that you would be PERFECT for the sáronyu, you just have to do...one thing". She then held my hand and looked deep into my eyes and said "...You have to kill yourself for the transfer to work correctly." I then gave her some questions, "How long do I have before the deal expires?" She then said "Moat said 3 months.." I added by saying "What's the most painless way?..." She giggled again, "Suicide will require pain buuut...if you want it quick...Get a gun and a nice shot to the head works.

I then agreed and she gave me a kiss on the forehead, "I know this will be tough but once it's over and done, you'll get to live here!" I then woke up and this was last week and i purchased a gun. I might actually kill myself because that dream just felt too real to be fake and my life isn't doing so grand.

Avatar Forums (http://avatar-forums.com/showthread.php?t=43)

[Morris Schæffer]

Okay.



Anti-smoking watchdogs are up in arms about Sigourney Weaver’s character lighting up in the movie Avatar, but James Cameron says that her character’s cigarette habit was a critique of videogamers.
In Sunday’s New York Times, the director defended himself (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/business/04smoke.html?partner=rss&emc=rss) against critics, saying that Weaver’s character Grace Augustine was never meant to be a role model for young people. In fact, he said, her smoking was meant to be a commentary on the character’s obsession with climbing into her blue meat puppet.
“We were showing that Grace doesn’t care about her human body, only her avatar body,” Cameron said. Augustine’s destructive behavior “is a negative comment about people in our real world living too much in their avatars, meaning online and in video games.”
So the next time you watch Avatar, let it be a reminder: Raiding Ice Crown Citadel (http://www.wowwiki.com/Icecrown_Citadel) for new gear is fine, just don’t forget to take your real-world toon for a walk every now and then.

[Dukefrukem]

Children of Men, There Will Be Blood, and The Departed were three times each in the theater.

I also remember seeing the Departed twice.

Terminator 2 was on AMC last night. I can sit through that movie any day of the week. I think i've decided it's Cameron's best film.

Also something I've noticed, we are ripping on Avatar as having a bad voice over, T2 also has a pretty bad voice over from Linda Hamilton throughout the whole movie. It's how the movie opens, and we don't really hear her voice again until they're in Mexico.

And how bad is this?


Dyson listened while the Terminator laid it all down: Skynet, Judgment Day, the history of things to come. It's not everyday you find out that you're responsible for 3 billion deaths. He took it pretty well.

[Raiders]

And how bad is this?

Nothing wrong with that, really. It fits with her character's no-nonsense, quasi-pulp-comic-book hero style.

[number8]

Uh, if we're just going to list movies we've seen more than once in theaters in our lifetime, I'm going to need to book the next two pages of this thread.

[Skitch]

Uh, if we're just going to list movies we've seen more than once in theaters in our lifetime, I'm going to need to book the next two pages of this thread.

Same here. The only ones that are notable are the ones that I've seen four times.

[Morris Schæffer]

I also remember seeing the Departed twice.

Terminator 2 was on AMC last night. I can sit through that movie any day of the week. I think i've decided it's Cameron's best film.

Also something I've noticed, we are ripping on Avatar as having a bad voice over, T2 also has a pretty bad voice over from Linda Hamilton throughout the whole movie. It's how the movie opens, and we don't really hear her voice again until they're in Mexico.

And how bad is this?

I don't think that Sully's voiceover is bad, but nuclear war looms heavily and persistantly over T2: Judgment Day, no doubt in part thanks to the original. In short, what Sarah Connor says just hits harder than what Sully has to say. T2 is actually far more powerful than Avatar. It is, at times, a deceptively pensive, philosophical motion picture. And even if such moments are few and far between, they work! Thus, I never once considered the T2 voiceover to be bad.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I don't think that Sully's voiceover is bad, but nuclear war looms heavily and persistantly over T2: Judgment Day, no doubt in part thanks to the original. In short, what Sarah Connor says just hits harder than what Sully has to say. T2 is actually far more powerful than Avatar. It is, at times, a deceptively pensive, philosophical motion picture. And even if such moments are few and far between, they work! Thus, I never once considered the T2 voiceover to be bad.

The T2 voice-over is minimal and effective. I believe it's used only three times in the film (the beginning, Dyson's sum-up, the ending). The Avatar voice-over is frequently unnecessary, explaining emotions and information the visuals are concurrently displaying.

[Dukefrukem]

The T2 voice-over is minimal and effective. I believe it's used only three times in the film (the beginning, Dyson's sum-up, the ending). The Avatar voice-over is frequently unnecessary, explaining emotions and information the visuals are concurrently displaying.

No. She also speaks before she has the dream too, although I cant' find any record of it on the internet.

[Morris Schæffer]

No. She also speaks before she has the dream too, although I cant' find any record of it on the internet.

This is true. When they're in the desert with Enrique, Sarah ruminates on how The Terminator would never abandon or let down her son John or something along those lines. Brad Fiedel's guitar twangs are awesome during these sequences.

[[ETM]]

Going to see it for the third time, this time in 2D, with my brother.
Will report on the let-down level after two 3D viewings.

[kuehnepips]

Uh, if we're just going to list movies we've seen more than once in theaters in our lifetime, I'm going to need to book the next two pages of this thread.

Only two? Amateur.

[KK2.0]

Avatar sequel is confirmed. It's all over Google by now.
(http://www.google.com.br/search?q=cameron+confirms+avat ar+sequel)

Cameron mentioned about the sequel exploring other places within the Pandora Solar System. But he neither confirmed a trilogy, nor if he'll be directing it, he seems to be involved with other projects though.

[KK2.0]

Oh my god. This can't be real - if it is, I'm certainly going to go to the seventh circle of hell for laughing at it.
Avatar Forums (http://avatar-forums.com/showthread.php?t=43)

It reminded me of the Avatar Makeup girl (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_vid eos&search_query=avatar+makeup&search_sort=relevance&search_category=0&page=) and her followers

[Rowland]

So I guess this thing is a hit? Well, huh. Didn't see that coming.

[Morris Schæffer]

Avatar sequel is confirmed. It's all over Google by now.
(http://www.google.com.br/search?q=cameron+confirms+avat ar+sequel)

Cameron mentioned about the sequel exploring other places within the Pandora Solar System. But he neither confirmed a trilogy, nor if he'll be directing it, he seems to be involved with other projects though.

I have absolutely no craving to revisit this universe. Wait, let me explain. Sequels to action flicks usually relaunch the franchise with new villains etc. But Avatar, with its epic scope somehow feels like something akin to the lord of the rings or star wars where the story immediately picks up after the last one. Isn't Avatar's story told? Sure, I suppose one can always go back and invent more stuff, but I'm not feeling such a need. This story, these characters are done.

[number8]

Worldwide gross just surpassed Return of the King. This thing might beat Titanic.

[Dukefrukem]

I have absolutely no craving to revisit this universe. Wait, let me explain. Sequels to action flicks usually relaunch the franchise with new villains etc. But Avatar, with its epic scope somehow feels like something akin to the lord of the rings or star wars where the story immediately picks up after the last one. Isn't Avatar's story told? Sure, I suppose one can always go back and invent more stuff, but I'm not feeling such a need. This story, these characters are done.

Two words. Time Travel. BANG! Two more movies.


Worldwide gross just surpassed Return of the King. This thing might beat Titanic.

And it's only it's 3rd week. The international ticket sales are CRAZY. It's only made $380 domestic. in comparison, Dark Knight made $500+ mil d and $600+ mil internationally.

[Ezee E]

Hopefully he pawns it off. I'd rather see him do Battle Angel

[Skitch]

Yeah, get Ridley to do the sequel. :D

[[ETM]]

Isn't Avatar's story told? Sure, I suppose one can always go back and invent more stuff, but I'm not feeling such a need. This story, these characters are done.

Oh boy. I'm sensing more and more that this is where the "meh" crowd separates from the rest, more so than the "Pocahontas blah blah" rants...

Seriously? You can sit there with a straight face and tell me that you actually think the story can't go anywhere? I mean, there's even no need to "invent" stuff, the setup is right there in the film, and, to me, the possibilities are simply mouthwatering.

[[ETM]]

Hopefully he pawns it off. I'd rather see him do Battle Angel

I'd have no problem with that, but I think he could easily do both now that the groundwork for Avatar is laid out.

[D_Davis]

Oh my god. This can't be real - if it is, I'm certainly going to go to the seventh circle of hell for laughing at it.

Avatar Forums (http://avatar-forums.com/showthread.php?t=43)

Considering that there are forums on which people marry Sonic the Hedgehog and his furry friends, nothing surprises me.

[megladon8]

Yeah I love that this movie's total gross is second only to Titanic.

Maybe his next movie will come in #3, and he'll have all the top spots for life.

[[ETM]]

Back from viewing number 3, and final... I have to say it's far more compelling in 2D than I expected. The extra dimension brings a whole new layer to the visuals, the scale of everything is more obvious, and some scenes are much less powerful in 2D, but overall - loved it again. TWO applauses this time, once when Quarritch bit the arrow. That really surprised me, my home town audience is a fidgety bunch who keep looking at their watches, answer cellphones and complain of bladder problems all the time.

[soitgoes...]

Yeah I love that this movie's total gross is second only to Titanic.

Maybe his next movie will come in #3, and he'll have all the top spots for life.His life maybe. It'll be hard for his films to stay on top for more than 20 years as ticket prices continue to rise. Titanic only sold 60% of the tickets of Gone with the Wind domestically. That is amazing.

[Raiders]

Titanic only sold 60% of the tickets of Gone with the Wind domestically. That is amazing.

Yes, but remember, in 1939 if they didn't watch it upon its release, they would never see it.

[lovejuice]

And it's only it's 3rd week. The international ticket sales are CRAZY. It's only made $380 domestic. in comparison, Dark Knight made $500+ mil d and $600+ mil internationally.
but it has only been shown for three weeks domestically as well. i will be surprised if at the end of its run, it doesn't surpass $500+ mil.

[[ETM]]

Indeed, at this point last summer, Transformers 2, for example, was barely making $1-2 million per day.

[soitgoes...]

Yes, but remember, in 1939 if they didn't watch it upon its release, they would never see it.
True, but every other film released before 1980 had the same issue, and nothing, not even Star Wars came close. Also the US population has increased 170 million people since then.

How about I put it another way: In 1940 the US population was only 132 million, Gone with the Wind sold 70 million more tickets than there were people living in the US. So every person living in the US saw the film on average one and a half times.

There's obviously lots of variables when comparing box office totals over different time frames. My main point is that no matter how awesome Titanic did or Avatar continues to do, something else will eventually trump it, unless the average ticket price drops.

[Morris Schæffer]

;231439']Oh boy. I'm sensing more and more that this is where the "meh" crowd separates from the rest, more so than the "Pocahontas blah blah" rants...

Seriously? You can sit there with a straight face and tell me that you actually think the story can't go anywhere? I mean, there's even no need to "invent" stuff, the setup is right there in the film, and, to me, the possibilities are simply mouthwatering.

I'm not saying it can't go anywhere and I suppose Avatar needn't have ended with a cliffhanger to make me anticipate the next installment, but the feeling"oh boy can't wait where this goes" just never materialized.

So what happens? The corporation sends in even more firepower and everything begins anew?

[[ETM]]

So what happens? The corporation sends in even more firepower and everything begins anew?

Well, for one - it is highly unlikely that it's a coincidence Na'vi and human DNA are compatible. It's virtually impossible. One way of continuing is exploring just how Pandora became such a perfectly balanced world, and did the "planet mind" computer (or Eywa) occur naturally or otherwise.

Also - it takes a few years to travel to Alpha Centauri A, but RDA folk can get the word out immediately so a human response could ship back even before Venture Star returns to Earth. It's highly likely that the company will want Pandora back at all costs, and that would include something more adequate than the APUs - I can see them coming back with a large number of trained soldier Avatars, which would seriously kick ass.

Also 2 - Pandora is quite large, as is the Na'vi population. We have seen next to nothing of their culture and life, and even less of the moon itself. I could imagine about a dozen amazing stories continuing from where the first film ends based on that alone. What if Jake explores his special connection to Eywa, and finds out more about how the world actually works, tapping into it in order to find a way to end the war for good? Like harnessing the antigravitational effect of unobtainium?

[KK2.0]

So what happens? The corporation sends in even more firepower and everything begins anew?

Cameron was vague, he said they may explore other planets in the Solar System Pandora is in.

Considering that the exploration of Pandora, the sense of discovery and all the NatGeo stuff, is possibly my favorite part of the movie, I'm in for a sequel that will show me something new.

[Morris Schæffer]

;231635']What if Jake explores his special connection to Eywa, and finds out more about how the world actually works, tapping into it in order to find a way to end the war for good? Like harnessing the antigravitational effect of unobtainium?

Those are possible directions, but they're not for me at this point. I think you would need some kind of, well I would need some kind of incentive to get the story going again and simply exploring the world looking for stuff seems feeble at this point. They could delve into the unobtanium, but film 1 makes such little effort to do anything with that - it's virtually a MacGuffin - that I'm completely uninterested at this point. So yeah, you could do something with an Avatar sequel, but part one did not succeed in making me crave more about Unobtanium or the world's Fauna and Flora.

[[ETM]]

part one did not succeed in making me crave more about Unobtanium or the world's Fauna and Flora.

It's virtually the opposite with almost everyone I know, so I don't know. I mean, the conflict is far from being resolved, and I'm not advocating these plot devices on their own, but as part of a larger plot where the humans either attempt to destroy the Na'vi and get what they want, or there's some kind of a solution that works out for all.

[Fezzik]

This thing made another $49 million this weekend.

It's #7 all time domestically ($429,020,000) and if it has another weekend similar to this, its reasonable that it will jump to #3...all before it's been out a month.

That's nuts.

Oversees, it broke $900 million total gross.

Total gross: $1,331,140,000 (#2 all time)

I've never seen anything like the way this thing is chugging along.

[Pop Trash]

This thing made another $49 million this weekend.

It's #7 all time domestically ($429,020,000) and if it has another weekend similar to this, its reasonable that it will jump to #3...all before it's been out a month.

That's nuts.

Oversees, it broke $900 million total gross.

Total gross: $1,331,140,000 (#2 all time)

I've never seen anything like the way this thing is chugging along.

Yeah my parents went to go see it this weekend, went 20 minutes early, and were totally surprised it was sold out. Cameron certainly has the magic touch when it comes to massive pop phenoms. I think there is a big world of mouth with this and also the idea that it's imperative to see it in the theaters. That watching it on your TV or comp is just not going to be the same experience (which is true).

[[ETM]]

That watching it on your TV or comp is just not going to be the same experience (which is true).

Indeed. I have been watching the full HD clips available online, and all they did is make me want to see it on the big screen again.

[[ETM]]

A little something I came up with:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/sf_anime/Navi-Shirt-concept.jpg

[D_Davis]

I am going to go and watch this Avatar movie on Wednesday. Yay.

[MadMan]

I am going to go and watch this Avatar movie on Wednesday. Yay.I'm seeing it tonight, and despite all of the positive buzz I'm going in with low expectations. The plot just doesn't really interest me, but yes I am going to see it in 3D.

[NickGlass]

I saw this last night in IMAX 3D. During a climatic confrontation between the protagonist and his Na'vi lover, the sound cut out for a solid 30 seconds. People were screaming "refund," but after a few seconds I realized I was fine: I simply preferred experiencing the visuals. I sort of wish I was given earplugs along with 3-D glasses at my screening. I'm sure the risible dialogue, irritating caricatures, and sloppy, head-butting allegories would have benefited, and been much more palatable, in that case.

[D_Davis]

I am not going to see this tonight.

[Rowland]

I've never seen anything like the way this thing is chugging along.I really don't understand why. I mean, from a distance, this thing just looks so dorky. Is it all word of mouth? I still haven't heard anyone in my (admittedly limited) circles discuss this thing outside of internet chatter.

[Qrazy]

I really don't understand why. I mean, from a distance, this thing just looks so dorky. Is it all word of mouth? I still haven't heard anyone in my (admittedly limited) circles discuss this thing outside of internet chatter.

The Lord of the Rings, Jaws and Star Wars don't look dorky?

[[ETM]]

I really don't understand why. I mean, from a distance, this thing just looks so dorky. Is it all word of mouth? I still haven't heard anyone in my (admittedly limited) circles discuss this thing outside of internet chatter.

I gave my view on this in a previous post, when it came out. It is perfectly tailored to be a huge hit with the widest and most diverse audiences imaginable. It's a truly old-fashioned adventure that isn't really aimed at any specific group (save for, probably, people with no eyesight problems) and can potentially be enjoyed and embraced by anyone. I've been having problems with discussing it mainly because people are still not over the "it sucks! - it rules!" crap. For instance, there are moments of truly impeccable direction and sequences that are breathtakingly well crafted that I can't talk to anyone about because whether the story is "original" or not seems to be a more important topic.

[Bosco B Thug]

I really don't understand why. I mean, from a distance, this thing just looks so dorky. Is it all word of mouth? I still haven't heard anyone in my (admittedly limited) circles discuss this thing outside of internet chatter.
Hmm. Regular people I know are all eating this up. But that itself surprises me too, a lot. This film has none of the quirky characters and franchise-able cutesiness of blockbusters that are fandom-creatingly huge. Which is good. Good for Avatar. People are liking it for being a stand-alone film, not for having heart-throbs in flashy roles or sidekicks we want to see more of.

[Qrazy]

;232950']I gave my view on this in a previous post, when it came out. It is perfectly tailored to be a huge hit with the widest and most diverse audiences imaginable. It's a truly old-fashioned adventure that isn't really aimed at any specific group (save for, probably, people with no eyesight problems) and can potentially be enjoyed and embraced by anyone. I've been having problems with discussing it mainly because people are still not over the "it sucks! - it rules!" crap. For instance, there are moments of truly impeccable direction and sequences that are breathtakingly well crafted that I can't talk to anyone about because whether the story is "original" or not seems to be a more important topic.

Which sequences?

[Dead & Messed Up]

I really don't understand why. I mean, from a distance, this thing just looks so dorky. Is it all word of mouth? I still haven't heard anyone in my (admittedly limited) circles discuss this thing outside of internet chatter.

It's being successfully sold as a cultural event and experience. Thanks to its basic (I'd say facile) story, it's also guaranteed overseas success. I can't imagine it's difficult to translate.

[Watashi]

Just watch it, Rowland.

[lovejuice]

It's being successfully sold as a cultural event and experience. Thanks to its basic (I'd say facile) story, it's also guaranteed overseas success. I can't imagine it's difficult to translate.
many thai people realizes its facileness, though. i don't know anyone who're impressed by the story. if anything, its touch on american guilt should resonate more domestically. you might be able to extend that argument to other imperialistic european countries.

[Ezee E]

I really don't understand why. I mean, from a distance, this thing just looks so dorky. Is it all word of mouth? I still haven't heard anyone in my (admittedly limited) circles discuss this thing outside of internet chatter.
It's kind of a big deal.

[number8]

I really don't understand why. I mean, from a distance, this thing just looks so dorky. Is it all word of mouth? I still haven't heard anyone in my (admittedly limited) circles discuss this thing outside of internet chatter.

Obviously, you're just not at all in tune with what the average Earthling like.

[MadMan]

I'm seeing it tonight, and despite all of the positive buzz I'm going in with low expectations. The plot just doesn't really interest me, but yes I am going to see it in 3D.

Alright, I thought this movie was very entertaining, and well made in terms of visuals and the supurb action sequences. The characters and plot were indeed quite sketchy, but characters aren't always important anyways. Simply put this was a rather simplistic movie full of amazing visual shots and gorgeous CGI that was complimented extremely well by the excellent use of 3D, which looked spectacular. The dialogue was something of a wash, but oh well you can't always get everything you want. Even though this isn't even close to being among Cameron's best it is still a fine return in terms of him doing an actual movie again and not documentaries. I can easily see why this took him so long to make, and why the film's cost was so high. Cameron still excels at crafting crowd pleasing entertainment, and giving the audience their money's worth in terms of thrills, interesting and engaging scenes, and the fact that in some ways he's kept some previous themes (such as his continuing distrust of authority) intact.

As for the political controversy over the movie, that is all quite silly. To me the Nav'i were like in tune with nature Smurfs, and they had to fight and kill whitey to save their race. Does this mean that I was reminded of Dances With Wolves? Eh, yes and no, and I don't really care anyways. The cries of racism I can see moreso, but in the end you can argue that most movies are racist in some way or another, as are most people. In the end, what I do find noteworthy is that Avatar fails to crack my Top 10 for the year, as I thought it would. Top 20, sure, but in the bottom half. So an 87 seems appropriate, at least for now.

[number8]

The more I think about it, the more I think the action sequences were quite poor.

[Ezee E]

The more I think about it, the more I think the action sequences were quite poor.
Indeed.

Compare this to Cameron's previous action movies and you'll see that there's simply no "story" to each of these action sequences. What I enjoy about T2 so much is that each action sequence is different, and uses each Terminator to the fullest of their capabilities. Whether it's the shapeshifting, being able to go through jailbars, or simply smash through them. True Lies even has a story to each action sequence.

The only setups this one has is when the main General is in his robot machine and trying to break the windows to Worthington's trailer. Although I did like the Na'Vi getting on to the plane and ripping up people.

[Raiders]

I found the action sequences very fluid, crisp and easy to follow; which may not necessarily say a whole lot, but it proves above all else Cameron understands the rhythms to an action film/sequence better than almost any other filmmaker.

[Ezee E]

I found the action sequences very fluid, crisp and easy to follow; which may not necessarily say a whole lot, but it proves above all else Cameron understands the rhythms to an action film/sequence better than almost any other filmmaker.
Mostly agree, but this pales in comparison to his other movies.

When compared to this years' action sequences. It surely beats the big summer movies in Wolverine, Star Trek, and Transformers 2.

[[ETM]]

I'm with Raiders on the action - and I think they are a bigger achievement in many ways than those in his previous films in many ways, since he had to work with bare captured performances and crude pre-visualizations for almost all of them. The way none of them have that specific over-staged look of CGI sequences in pretty much anything else, even though it has way more CGI than anything ever is simply astounding.

I especially enjoyed the controlled chaos of the Thanator chase. I paid special attention to it on my second 3D viewing, and the way it uses 3D to enhance the limited space in which the fight takes place, and keeps track of both Jake and the beast at all times is awesome.

[number8]

Dumbest thing I've read all day.



I wonder what James Cameron thinks of the marines deployed to Haiti for relief. Promise you the haitians are glad to see 'em.

[Rowland]

I finally heard this movie brought up by someone in the real world. They were asking me if I'd heard about people committing suicide because they can't live on our ugly planet after witnessing the beauty of this movie's world. He hypothosized that these nuts must have already been suicidal depressives to begin with. A solid theory.

[Dukefrukem]

I finally heard this movie brought up by someone in the real world. They were asking me if I'd heard about people committing suicide because they can't live on our ugly planet after witnessing the beauty of this movie's world. He hypothosized that these nuts must have already been suicidal depressives to begin with. A solid theory.

Someone at work mentioned this today too! I've never heard of anything like this until today. A quick google search got me this (http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/11/avatar.movie.blues/index.html).

[number8]

It was mentioned in this thread two pages ago.

[KK2.0]

I also disagree that the action scenes lack the story to back them up, two sequences in particular, the taming of those flying dragons and the brawl between Sully and Quadritch were sucessfully staged imo and emotionally enhanced by the story details that have been laid out previously.

Maybe what Avatar lacked was the grittyness of the Terminator movies, but the former was aimed at an older audience while this was clearly targeting the families, even though there are a few violent scenes, but no blood in them whatsoever.


People are liking it for being a stand-alone film, not for having heart-throbs in flashy roles or sidekicks we want to see more of.

Indeed. The later description screams Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

Can't say much about what the real people are talking about because i work on a very dorky job and of course, they all have watched Avatar... multiple times. :lol:

[Dukefrukem]

Don't know if this was posted already but... LOL

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/epic-fail-avatar-plot-fail.jpg

[[ETM]]

It wasn't that funny nor accurate the first dozen times I've seen it, and it hasn't aged well.

[Kurosawa Fan]

;233515']It wasn't that funny nor accurate the first dozen times I've seen it, and it hasn't aged well.

Whether you find it funny or not, it's definitely accurate.

[[ETM]]

Whether you find it funny or not, it's definitely accurate.

Um... "and the two cultures resolve their differences?" Seriously?

There are several more ridiculous places, but that one takes the cake. Of course it's pretty much the same basic story, but you can fix that to fit most films in the genre.

[number8]

Jesus freaking chrysanthemum, this thing's already over 1.4 billion in less than a month.

2 billion will be a cake walk.

[[ETM]]

It took Titanic 81 days to reach $450 million. I don't know if Avatar has legs like that.

[Kurosawa Fan]

;233537']Um... "and the two cultures resolve their differences?" Seriously?

There are several more ridiculous places, but that one takes the cake. Of course it's pretty much the same basic story, but you can fix that to fit most films in the genre.


Hey ETM. It's a JOKE. Lighten up a bit. And frankly, that's the only part that's totally inaccurate. What are these other "several more ridiculous places"?

[Raiders]

Only Disney could make up that story from the little we know of Pocahontas.

[megladon8]

I find it hard to take it seriously when people claim they see nothing of the Pocahontas story in this.

[[ETM]]

Hey ETM. It's a JOKE. Lighten up a bit. And frankly, that's the only part that's totally inaccurate. What are these other "several more ridiculous places"?

Man, I know it's a joke, but it has been done to death already, and I believe in this thread already, too. I'm a fan of the film and I've had that rather pointless picture posted as an "argument" in several discussions already, so I pretty much hate it already. Nothing personal, really.

As for the rest, it's not worth even discussing, but for the sake of completeness: the character of Tsu'tei is completely different than the "serious" warrior in Pocahontas... it is not "their" unobtanium, they're simply in the way... Jake was not sentenced to death... etc. etc. blah, blah...

[[ETM]]

I find it hard to take it seriously when people claim they see nothing of the Pocahontas story in this.

I have never seen anyone make that claim, and I have seen some crazy mo-fos.

[number8]

Technically, they did resolve their differences. Humans got booted off Pandora. Differences resolved.

[[ETM]]

Avatar 2: Differences Reloaded

[Spinal]

I don't mind people telling me how much they enjoyed this, but when they start to talk about how great the storytelling was, that's where I start to cringe.

[Skitch]

;233588']Avatar 2: Differences Reloaded

:lol:

[eternity]

I don't mind people telling me how much they enjoyed this, but when they start to talk about how great the storytelling was, that's where I start to cringe.
It's certainly far better than it is given credit for. Rewatches have proven the plotting thin, yet there are so many subtle details that tell a whole lot more than the page could have in the time allotted.

Or not. Whatever.

[Ezee E]

It's certainly far better than it is given credit for. Rewatches have proven the plotting thin, yet there are so many subtle details that tell a whole lot more than the page could have in the time allotted.

Or not. Whatever.
Enlighten us.

[Dukefrukem]

Jesus freaking chrysanthemum, this thing's already over 1.4 billion in less than a month.

2 billion will be a cake walk.

1.6 billion in 31 days.

[Dukefrukem]

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2400/avatarflag.jpg

[[ETM]]

I'd actually be pretty impressed if that was intentional.:lol:

[KK2.0]

"All hail "Avatar," yes, but the year's best picture? Give me a f--king break."

Ebert at twitter about 10 minutes ago. :)

[Watashi]

Sorry Ebert, but Avatar is better than your precious Precious.

[B-side]

This was as mediocre as I was expecting. Perhaps more so.

[Watashi]

This was as mediocre as I was expecting. Perhaps more so.
Your face was as mediocre as I was expecting.