Films You Probably Got Wrong

[Watashi]

I stole this idea from the Filmspotting podcast I listen to weekly.

What are the films that if revisited today, your initial opinion would change under different circumstances? It can be positive or negative.

List a top 5 if you can.

5. Ikiru

It was only my second Kurosawa film seen, but I left disappointed by the film's closing act and gave it a borderline passing grade. I'm sure now with all my Kurosawa knowledge, I could see it in a different light.

4. Pride and Prejudice

I've really wanted to revisit this film ever since I fell in love with Wright's Atonement. With all the praise it gets on Match Cut, I'm sure a second viewing will be more enthusiastic. Also, it will help me score chicks.

3. The Wild Bunch

I think I was just in a bad mood when I saw this film. Match that up with the length, and I'm certain I never saw the essential Western that tops many of critics lists.

2. Brick

Eternity, help me. I really think I was overblown by hype and the obsession this film got. I've seen bits and pieces of it since 2006 and Rian Johnson's attention to detail has really grown on me.

1. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

I was one of the lone dissenters of this film back when it was released, but I will admit that my viewing came through a tinted experience and was honestly sick of people calling it a masterpiece. It's a film I could really see myself turn 180 on if I rewatch it.

Other films I probably got wrong:

Punch-Drunk Love
Fallen Angels
The Lady Vanishes
Spider
George Washington

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'll have to think about this a bit more before posting, but the first one that popped into my head was Aguirre. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't hate it as much as I do right now. Not sure I'd love it or anything, but I feel like I owe it another viewing.

[Raiders]

Pierrot le fou for sure. Also maybe Bonnie and Clyde.

[monolith94]

Sullivan's Travels. Pandora's Box.

[Ezee E]

Not sure. I bet someone could answer this for me.

[StanleyK]

Oh, lots. I've changed a lot since about two years ago. Some films I watched around that time frame that I haven't revisited:

Alien
Das Boot
Brazil
City of God
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
The Constant Gardener
Fargo
The Graduate
Mulholland Dr.
Nashville
Rashômon
Requiem for a Dream
Zodiac

These are all films that I either hated or didn't care much about, possibly because I was stupid. I'm pretty sure if I rewatch them, I'll like them a lot more.

Here are some films which I did revisit and my opinion of them improved a lot:

2001: A Space Odyssey
Amarcord
The Fountain
Halloween
The Incredibles
The Killing
Lost in Translation
Manhattan

[megladon8]

Just about anything by Spike Lee.

I can't help it - whenever I watch a movie by him, my mind goes into over-drive seeing ridiculous racially-driven messages and conspiracy theories. I have a hard time taking even his best work seriously because of this.

[Boner M]

Grey Gardens, likely.

[balmakboor]

Two films already mentioned here that I was shocked to find myself not liking were Grey Gardens and Eternal Sunshine. Another one was Pistol Opera. I'm sure they're many others. I plan to re-visit all three of those in the next few months.

[Pop Trash]

Yeah Eternal Sunshine was the first movie that popped in my head as well. I do think it was the massive praise it received in 2004 that turned me off since, at least on first viewing, I liked but didn't love it. I also remember really championing Before Sunset as the better romantic film of that year and being irritated that it lost that conventional wisdom fight. For the record, I still stand by Before Sunset. But, after being pretty blown away by Synecdoche, NY, I think one of these days I will watch Eternal Sunshine again and see its genius.

[The Mike]

Eternal Sunshine was my first thought as well. Also, Little Miss Sunshine.

Oh, and Sunshine. (OK, that was too far.)

[Spinal]

Grey Gardens, likely.

You were young. Don't be so hard on yourself.

[Spinal]

1. The Rules of the Game - I have to be missing something with this one. People go crazy over it and I can't for the life of me figure out why. Seen it twice.

2. Smiles of a Summer Night - It's Bergman. I'm sure I just need to get around to another viewing and everything will be fine.

3. Tom Jones - I think this one is due for a re-evaluation. I love Albert Finney.

4. Paris, Texas - It was not viewed under conditions that allowed me to be properly patient. Should try it again.

5. Beat the Devil - Didn't get it. Didn't really even understand what it was attempting to be.

[monolith94]

I highly recommend the novel Tom Jones, Spinal. Long, but so rewarding.

[soitgoes...]

2. Smiles of a Summer Night - It's Bergman. I'm sure I just need to get around to another viewing and everything will be fine.

Yes, this one is weird to me. This totally seems like a Spinal film.

[Mysterious Dude]

When I rewatch films, I often find that I understand the film better, but I usually don't like it any more than I did the first time. Like 2001: A Space Odyssey. I first saw it when I was about thirteen, and it bored me to distraction. I have seen it a few more times since then, and while I understand it better and respect it, I don't really like it all that much. I had similar experiences with Apocalypse Now, Cabaret, 8½ and Network. I don't dislike any of those movies, but they don't speak to me.

There are some movies that probably warrant a rewatch:

Faust (1926) - I remember that I disliked the special effects of this film the first time I saw it. Even without having seen it again, this seems like an insane criticism. I should probably see The Last Laugh again, too.

Zero de Conduite - It seemed like a lot of random nonsense to me, but maybe I was in the wrong mood. L'Atalante also deserves another chance.

Beauty and the Beast - I found Cocteau's film to be too weird for me, but I think my tolerance for weirdness has grown.

Hiroshima, Mon Amour - One of the first three movies I ever rented from Netflix in 2003. I didn't understand it. Perhaps I would understand it better today.

Lawrence of Arabia - Like 2001, I found it pretty boring. But my attention span has improved over the years. At least, I like to think so.

[Bosco B Thug]

1. Seconds - I just remember not liking it, and I can't recall why.
2. To Be or Not To Be - I liked it, but I didn't love it like I feel I should've.
3. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid - Seems like something that could open up with a repeat view.

Hmm, that's all I can think of, I thought I'd have a lot. Eraserhead and Tropical Malady, maybe, but I do appreciate those on a level I think is appropriate enough (and am critical of them in ways that I think are appropriate, too).

[lovejuice]

you guys will love this. after enjoying kill bill, i always want to prove myself wrong for disliking pulp fiction 15 years ago when i watched it in theatre. sadly death proof keeps my optimism in check.

[MadMan]

1. Blowup(1966)-Tried to view this on TCM. Watched for a good 30 minutes hoping to get engaged. Quit wondering why the hell people love it so much. Maybe next time.

2. Mon oncle(1958)-Just could not get into the humor and the feel of this movie at all. It had no effect on me, so I gave up.

3. Play Time(1967)-Once again, this movie failed to click with me. I had a "This is supposed to be funny/entertaining?" reaction, and that's not good.

4. Godzilla v. Mothra(1964)-Can someone tell me why the hell the first 25-30 minutes of this movie are about two little girls singing and crazy hijinks? I want Godzilla and lots of monster fighting, damnit. My patience just gave out on this one.

[Morris Schæffer]

I'll have to think about this a bit more before posting, but the first one that popped into my head was Aguirre. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't hate it as much as I do right now. Not sure I'd love it or anything, but I feel like I owe it another viewing.

Spirited Away? :)

[B-side]

The Rules of the Game (Renoir) - Like Spinal, I must be missing something here. But considering it's been well over a year and a half or more since I've seen it, I'm willing to bet I'd like it more now.

Army of Shadows (Melville) - I saw a fairly boring, but atmospheric neo-noir thriller. Other people saw brilliance. We'll see what a rewatch brings.

M (Lang) - Great performance by Lorre. The rest? Eh. Nothing special. Maybe my expectations got to me.

L'Avventura (Antonioni) - My least favorite of the 4 Antonioni's I've seen thus far(Blow-Up, L'Eclisse, The Passenger being the other 3). It felt forced and a bit contrived, especially in the first half. I don't know. I guess it just felt like Antonioni was hammering his alienation theme home a bit too much.

Keep in mind, none of these films received negative scores from me. But I do still feel like I could use a different approach that is more conducive to appreciating what it seems nearly everyone except me finds brilliant.

[Boner M]

You were young. Don't be so hard on yourself.
I'll come clean. The Maysles' grazed my car while parallel parking.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Spirited Away? :)

I'm all set there.

[Winston*]

All of them.

[Boner M]

Thread Titles You Definitely Got Wrong.

[D_Davis]

Clerks 2 and Donnie Darko

I like both of these films a great deal the first time I saw them, but after subsequent viewings I found myself disliking them more and more. Now I think they're both terrible.

Also, a lot of Spike Lee films. I use to feel that he was too on the nose and didactic with his depictions of race, but over a long period of time I grew to love his aesthetic and narrative style.

[Fezzik]

The Incredibles. When I first saw it, i liked it, but didn't really see in it what so many others had. Since then, I've grown to see it as a rather brilliant deconstruction of the "leave no child behind" mentality of American Society.

Return of the Jedi. I had such fanboy love for this film for a long time, but going back as a discerning moviegoer, I really have a hard time watching it all the way through. It reminds me more of the prequel trilogy than it does either of the other films in the original trilogy (particularly The Empire Strikes Back).

Whale Rider. When I saw it, I think I was expecting the second coming, based on what others thought of it. Outside of Castle-Hughes, I found it to be merely ok. I think I may need to see it again.

[Sycophant]

If I ever held a wrong opinion, the last thing I would do would be to tell you people about it.

[Mysterious Dude]

I'm all set there.
As I was looking for movies to post in this thread (movies that other people liked, but I didn't), I came across a few that I'm pretty sure everyone else is wrong about.

[Mara]

Whale Rider. When I saw it, I think I was expecting the second coming, based on what others thought of it. Outside of Castle-Hughes, I found it to be merely ok. I think I may need to see it again.

I don't know what the rest of m-c thought, but I loved this film.

[baby doll]

None. Never.

[Ezee E]

A movie that I have had changed opinions on is The Seventh Seal, but I think that came with more maturity and knowledge of movies.

I'm sure there's a few other movies I saw in my first years of being a film school student would change with today's taste. I wouldn't say I was wrong though, just that things change.

It's pretty hysterical to look at my top ten of 2000 in its original form. Yeesh.

[baby doll]

A movie that I have had changed opinions on is The Seventh Seal, but I think that came with more maturity and knowledge of movies.

I'm sure there's a few other movies I saw in my first years of being a film school student would change with today's taste. I wouldn't say I was wrong though, just that things change.

It's pretty hysterical to look at my top ten of 2000 in its original form. Yeesh.Yeah, I think I had Traffic on mine. Truly embarrassing.

[chrisnu]

Movies I think that I probably overestimated at the time:

Sideways
A History of Violence
Twentynine Palms
American Beauty
Faces

I haven't seen any of these in at least four years, and I think my opinion of them might not be so, overly exuberant.

[Qrazy]

Movies I think that I probably overestimated at the time:

Sideways
A History of Violence
Twentynine Palms
American Beauty
Faces

I haven't seen any of these in at least four years, and I think my opinion of them might not be so, overly exuberant.

Well that's a shame because it deserves to be for Faces.

[lovejuice]

Yeah, I think I had Traffic on mine. Truly embarrassing.
and you did like leaving las vegas, didn't you?

[baby doll]

and you did like leaving las vegas, didn't you?Way back when.

[Izzy Black]

My least favorite of the 4 Antonioni's I've seen thus far(Blow-Up, L'Eclisse, The Passenger being the other 3). It felt forced and a bit contrived, especially in the first half. I don't know. I guess it just felt like Antonioni was hammering his alienation theme home a bit too much.

Funny considering it's the least forceful of the theme of all of these films. It's known as one of his most elusive.

[Izzy Black]

Movies I think that I probably overestimated at the time:

Sideways
A History of Violence
Twentynine Palms
American Beauty
Faces

I haven't seen any of these in at least four years, and I think my opinion of them might not be so, overly exuberant.

Why not?

[Pop Trash]

I think having Israfel and Baby Doll posting in the same thread is like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters. And yes, I made a Ghostbusters reference since I knew those two would enjoy that.

[Melville]

La Dolce Vita. I can't even recall why I disliked it. Since I love 8 1/2, I think I must have just been in an uninterested mood when I saw this.

L'Avventura. I think I was missing something. It just seemed tedious. I haven't really liked anything I've seen by Antonioni (this, Blow-up, and The Passenger), but I'm pretty sure that this is the only one that I would appreciate more after another viewing.

[chrisnu]

Why not?
Why haven't I watched them again? Watching a film I hadn't seen before felt like a better idea at the time, I suppose.

[Izzy Black]

Why haven't I watched them again? Watching a film I hadn't seen before felt like a better idea at the time, I suppose.

I mean, why do you feel like you would not like them as much anymore? Some movies you have seen only once you are sure if you watched again you would love, but not these -- why?

[Izzy Black]

La Dolce Vita. I can't even recall why I disliked it. Since I love 8 1/2, I think I must have just been in an uninterested mood when I saw this.

Never been a big fan of La Dolce Vita. A bit overrated in my book.

[chrisnu]

I mean, why do you feel like you would not like them as much anymore? Some movies you have seen only once you are sure if you watched again you would love, but not these -- why?
Letting reputation and other people's thoughts influence my own opinion, I think. At the time on Rotten Tomatoes, there were some big Bruno Dumont geeks, who would mention the film a lot. With this and those other films, I had started to watch films more than casually maybe a year before... I think that you can go into something expecting it to be great, and you just let it be great. Or, there's something which the film did which you enjoyed, or intrigued you so much, that you overlook other aspects you may not like as much on a repeat viewing. I suppose I've become more reticent to hand out a "10" rating to a film I've seen only once or maybe twice, and these are some of my earliest examples.

[Izzy Black]

Letting reputation and other people's thoughts influence my own opinion, I think. At the time on Rotten Tomatoes, there were some big Bruno Dumont geeks, who would mention the film a lot. With this and those other films, I had started to watch films more than casually maybe a year before... I think that you can go into something expecting it to be great, and you just let it be great. Or, there's something which the film did which you enjoyed, or intrigued you so much, that you overlook other aspects you may not like as much on a repeat viewing. I suppose I've become more reticent to hand out a "10" rating to a film I've seen only once or maybe twice, and these are some of my earliest examples.

Ah, yes. Fair enough. I can see this, generally. Although with Dumont, I still think he has a pretty strong critical base. Even if not, he is interesting enough that I think negative criticism would not be potent enough alone to upset a positive reactions and the amount of positive literature that's out there on him.

[Spinal]

At first I thought this thread was going to be about Watashi telling us personally which films we got wrong. That would be a pretty entertaining thread as well.

[Qrazy]

La Dolce Vita. I can't even recall why I disliked it. Since I love 8 1/2, I think I must have just been in an uninterested mood when I saw this.

L'Avventura. I think I was missing something. It just seemed tedious. I haven't really liked anything I've seen by Antonioni (this, Blow-up, and The Passenger), but I'm pretty sure that this is the only one that I would appreciate more after another viewing.

You may enjoy L'eclisse and La Notte more. They center around two much more approachable relationships (which for Israfel's benefit... is not to say they are necessarily better).

Oh also I think La Dolce Vita is great so I would certainly encourage a revisitation.

[Robby P]

I think you'd be lying to yourself if you said that you completely understood, say, David Lynch's movies upon the first viewing. In that sense, I've gotten plenty of movies "wrong" before.

[megladon8]

Here's one that I was reminded of when reading reviews of Observe & Report...

When I first saw Taxi Driver at the age of 13, I thought it was presenting Travis Bickle as a tortured hero.

Of course I don't see it that way anymore, but yeah, there was a time when I totally misunderstood what that movie was telling me.

[Melville]

You may enjoy L'eclisse and La Notte more. They center around two much more approachable relationships (which for Israfel's benefit... is not to say they are necessarily better).
Yeah, those are the two I'm most interested in seeing. (I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before.) Though it's Antonioni's presentation of the relationships in his movies, not the relationships themselves, that I find tedious. It's too distanced for my liking. I prefer a more evocative approach.

[Izzy Black]

Yeah, those are the two I'm most interested in seeing. (I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before.) Though it's Antonioni's presentation of the relationships in his movies, not the relationships themselves, that I find tedious. It's too distanced for my liking. I prefer a more evocative approach.

I think Antonioni is dynamic in his indirect approach. It allows him to emphasize the environment, mise-en-scene, and the spatial relationship individuals have with each other. He is able to illustrate the inner-life of the relationships unconventionally, and perhaps, not as emotional in the direct sense, but it creates for a cinema that is very original, I think. At least inasmuch as he is able to bring out the elements of cinema that are typically marginalized, and articulate meaning in ways that traditional mechanics would not allow.

Not sure if you would be interested, but I have some essays on Antonioni in my blog (www.agentsandseers.wordpress. com) that might be of some use if you have some time to waste.

[Izzy Black]

I also find that these unconventional elements allow for the emotion in these interpersonal moments to resonate more powerfully; particularly, say, the closing shot of L'Avventura. (The context of an invasive modern building de-centering the shot, underscoring the anxiety of their relationship and the conditioning of her bittersweet forgiveness.)

[Beau]

There's nothing to "get" about The Rules of the Game. It's not difficult. You have to feel about with your hands, touch the walls, understand the dimensions, walk through the hallways, grasp the fleeting emotions. It's about movement, bodies, dance, and space. Our characters are in motion inside a house. They convey things with their bodies. They express - inside space, amongst each other, in the dialogue of movement - whatever it is they're feeling or thinking. This space is a space of performance (the characters act out a game of love), a space of social norms (downstairs-upstairs), and a space of secrets (doors open, doors close, affairs are revealed). The characters, by moving, interact with each other and with this layered space.

[Beau]

To actually answer the question, I think I should re-watch The Seventh Seal.

[Qrazy]

There's nothing to "get" about The Rules of the Game. It's not difficult. You have to feel about with your hands, touch the walls, understand the dimensions, walk through the hallways, grasp the fleeting emotions. It's about movement, bodies, dance, and space. Our characters are in motion inside a house. They convey things with their bodies. They express - inside space, amongst each other, in the dialogue of movement - whatever it is they're feeling or thinking. This space is a space of performance (the characters act out a game of love), a space of social norms (downstairs-upstairs), and a space of secrets (doors open, doors close, affairs are revealed). The characters, by moving, interact with each other and with this layered space.

Don't make me slap you. The slap hand is feeling slappy.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Probably a few, most I saw when I was 15-16. I was just young and didn't really understand what I was seeing for one reason or another. Not that I would necessarily like them today, but there is a high chance that my opinion is wrong.

Network
Double Indemnity
The Asphalt Jungle
The Killing
L'Atalante

[Mysterious Dude]

During my last viewing of The Seventh Seal, I actually found it kind of simple and immature compared to Bergman's later films.

[trotchky]

American Beauty
Smiley Face
Se7en
Fight Club
lots more

all movies that I at one time thought were shit, but now recognize as masterpieces.

[Qrazy]

Probably a few, most I saw when I was 15-16. I was just young and didn't really understand what I was seeing for one reason or another. Not that I would necessarily like them today, but there is a high chance that my opinion is wrong.

Network
Double Indemnity
The Asphalt Jungle
The Killing
L'Atalante

L'atalante really seems like your kind of film to me. I'm surprised you don't like it more.

[Philosophe_rouge]

L'atalante really seems like your kind of film to me. I'm surprised you don't like it more.
That's why I put it on the list, I don't know why I didn't like it the first time around, because thinking back to it, I have fond memories of moments and images. Maybe I was in a bad mood or something, but I was bored to tears when I first saw it.

[Qrazy]

That's why I put it on the list, I don't know why I didn't like it the first time around, because thinking back to it, I have fond memories of moments and images. Maybe I was in a bad mood or something, but I was bored to tears when I first saw it.

Hrm now I really want you to rewatch it just so I'll know if you revise your opinion or not.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Hrm now I really want you to rewatch it just so I know if you'll revise your opinion or not.
I probably will, of all the ones I listed, it's the one I'd most like to see again.

[B-side]

Funny considering it's the least forceful of the theme of all of these films. It's known as one of his most elusive.

Thinking back, the scenes that rung most forced to me were the numerous times Sandro(I believe) kept chasing after Claudia and she'd always walk away. I remember feeling as if one of those moments would have been enough to display her elusive attitude, but Antonioni had her do it several times.

Also, write more. That Dumont rant is from way back when I watched it.:P

[balmakboor]

American Beauty
Smiley Face
Se7en
Fight Club
lots more

all movies that I at one time thought were shit, but now recognize as masterpieces.

It would be some mighty hard work to convince me that American Beauty and Fight Club are masterpieces. I like Fight Club for the most part, but like is all. I re-watched American Beauty last year and almost shut it off.

Smiley Face? Really good movie, but masterpiece is a stretch.

Se7en? Maybe. It's certainly top drawer Fincher anyway.

[baby doll]

NetworkNo, it just sucks. Peaks about a half hour in and then it just starts spinning its wheels, making the same points over and over: women are stupid, radicals are stupid, young people are emotionless, uncaring "TV babies," Arabs are taking over the world, white men over fifty are hot shit but impotent to do anything.

[Qrazy]

No, it just sucks. Peaks about a half hour in and then it just starts spinning its wheels, making the same points over and over: women are stupid, radicals are stupid, young people are emotionless, uncaring "TV babies," Arabs are taking over the world, white men over fifty are hot shit but impotent to do anything.

None of these are the points the film raises and it is indeed excellent.

[MadMan]

None of these are the points the film raises and it is indeed excellent.That's what I was thinking. I actually want to revisit the movie again just so I can properly review it. But at the time I saw it (which was back in 2006) I saw it as being extremely critical of mass media, and feeding into some theories on the medium and how its changed. And not for the better. Also I fail to see how anyone can hate a movie with so many amazing monologues, and top notch acting as well.

[Qrazy]

That's what I was thinking. I actually want to revisit the movie again just so I can properly review it. But at the time I saw it (which was back in 2006) I saw it as being extremely critical of mass media, and feeding into some theories on the medium and how its changed. And not for the better. Also I fail to see how anyone can hate a movie with so many amazing monologues, and top notch acting as well.

Yeah I'd have to rewatch it to argue for it effectively as well since I saw it years ago. I remember before I did see it though, in high school my teacher showed us the Mad as Hell monologue. I thought OK this is going to be another one of those anti-establishment films where the only message is feel good counter-conformity... which is fine, but it's so much more than that. That's really just the beginning of the film and then it goes far, far beyond. In a way it criticizes the Easy Rider's, Cool Hand Luke's and Cuckoo's Nests. I love those films but I think Network has something intensely potent to communicate. It demonstrates how counter-conformist characters and perspectives are so easily swallowed up, incorporated into the system and deprived of all meaning. The film is predominantly about the insanity of greed driven network television... but it's also about how the systems of unregulated corrupt corporate America, capitalism and rhetoric driven media are beginning to unravel the foundations of the basic relationship between men and women, love and family.

[Izzy Black]

Thinking back, the scenes that rung most forced to me were the numerous times Sandro(I believe) kept chasing after Claudia and she'd always walk away. I remember feeling as if one of those moments would have been enough to display her elusive attitude, but Antonioni had her do it several times.

OK....


Also, write more. That Dumont rant is from way back when I watched it.:P

Right. Yes, well, I just transferred my essays over to the blog. I have not done much with it just yet beyond setting it up. I have some things planned for it, however.

[Mara]

I think I should try La Dolce Vita again.

There was absolutely nothing in that film I could point to and criticize, and yet I felt completely disengaged the entire time.

I also never finished Brazil. This was probably ten years ago.

[Beau]

Don't make me slap you. The slap hand is feeling slappy.

I am not sorry.

[Beau]

I think I should try La Dolce Vita again.

There was absolutely nothing in that film I could point to and criticize, and yet I felt completely disengaged the entire time.

It might have been your mood. It might have been Israfel sending negative brain-waves in your direction in order to gain an ally. I'm going with the second option. It's the romantic in me.

[Qrazy]

I am not sorry.

The last third of that film just blows me away. Particularly the shot with Julien Carette and the other guy after the 'incident'.

[Beau]

The last third of that film just blows me away. Particularly the shot with Julien Carette and the other guy after the 'incident'.

Yes. I love the whole film, obviously, but those last forty minutes are something special.

[Izzy Black]

It might have been your mood. It might have been Israfel sending negative brain-waves in your direction in order to gain an ally. I'm going with the second option. It's the romantic in me.

Take it!

[Russ]

I think it's safe to say I deserve to give the following films another chance (not just because of the critical acclaim in which they're held, but for the fact that each still resurfaces in my memory from time to time - favorably, which I take as a positive sign, even though my initial impressions weren't very favorable):

Sans Soleil (Marker) - although, do I really need to sit through that fucking giraffe scene again? Maybe someone can properly contextualize its significance for me.

L'atalante (Vigo) - I just think in retrospect I'd be much more receptive to it with another viewing. I actually remember it quite well, but was put off by some of the early characterizations (comic relief, I'm thinking of you). I'm sure I'd probably like it a lot more with another viewing, maybe even love it.

L'Argent and Diary of a Country Priest (Bresson) - Priest was beautifully filmed but bored me to tears -- still not sure what the point of the whole thing was, and same for L'Argent (which I think I "enjoyed" more, if only slightly). Those two were enough to turn me off Bresson, but perhaps I just need to view something a bit more accessible (say, Mouchette) to help me bridge the gap to these other works. That said, I still think about them from time to time, choosing to remember the "good" over (what I perceive to be) the "bad." So, that tells me that maybe I was a tad hasty.

**********

I don't think I'll ever change my opinion on Charlie Kaufman's stuff. I marginally liked Being John Malkovich the first time; every time afterwards I grew to like it less and less. And don't get me started on Eternal Sunshine. I swear, I just do not see the appeal, at all. Ugh.

[B-side]

OK....

Don't be like thaaaat. Tell me why I'm wrong so I can grow. :P


Right. Yes, well, I just transferred my essays over to the blog. I have not done much with it just yet beyond setting it up. I have some things planned for it, however.

Well, get on it.:)

[[ETM]]

I also never finished Brazil. This was probably ten years ago.

The worst I can say about it is that it's a gut wrenching experience in the end, but it's certainly a masterpiece that has to be seen in its entirety.

[Qrazy]

L'Argent and Diary of a Country Priest (Bresson) - Priest was beautifully filmed but bored me to tears -- still not sure what the point of the whole thing was, and same for L'Argent (which I think I "enjoyed" more, if only slightly). Those two were enough to turn me off Bresson, but perhaps I just need to view something a bit more accessible (say, Mouchette) to help me bridge the gap to these other works. That said, I still think about them from time to time, choosing to remember the "good" over (what I perceive to be) the "bad." So, that tells me that maybe I was a tad hasty.


Watch Au Hasard Balthazar, Pickpocket or A Man Escaped. Screw Mouchette. L'argent is relatively mediocre. I haven't seen Country Priest yet.

[MadMan]

Yeah I'd have to rewatch it to argue for it effectively as well since I saw it years ago. I remember before I did see it though, in high school my teacher showed us the Mad as Hell monologue. I thought OK this is going to be another one of those anti-establishment films where the only message is feel good counter-conformity... which is fine, but it's so much more than that. That's really just the beginning of the film and then it goes far, far beyond. In a way it criticizes the Easy Rider's, Cool Hand Luke's and Cuckoo's Nests. I love those films but I think Network has something intensely potent to communicate. It demonstrates how counter-conformist characters and perspectives are so easily swallowed up, incorporated into the system and deprived of all meaning. The film is predominantly about the insanity of greed driven network television... but it's also about how the systems of unregulated corrupt corporate America, capitalism and rhetoric driven media are beginning to unravel the foundations of the basic relationship between men and women, love and family.I agree with all of this post. I never thought about it critizing films like Easy Rider, Cool Hand Luke or One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest because I saw Network before all of those except for "Luke." Although at the same time I think that all of those films mentioned also do showcase what you described, in that the rebelling center character (or characters) is destroyed by the system they are challenging. Or that they come up against, in the case of Easy Rider.

Oh and I still think that the following two monlogues and the scene in which they happens, is the best part of the entire film. Or at least its most powerful, intelligent, and depressingly spot on. Much of it still scarily applies to today:

(Spoilered for length reasons)

You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear? You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case! The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU...WILL...ATONE!
Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those *are* the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state, Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that . . . perfect world . . . in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock. All necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused. And I have chosen you, Mr. Beale, to preach this evangel.
Also I was hoping to post that Angry Red Planet is in fact a semi-enjoyable, campy movie along the same lines as Plan 9 From Outer Space (although its also a bad film). Well, "Planet" makes "Plan 9" look like Alien when it comes to great sci-fi and awesome cinema.

[Raiders]

Screw Mouchette

Absolutely not.

[Beau]

Don't be like thaaaat. Tell me why I'm wrong so I can grow. :P

Learn how to grow by yourself! :)

[Boner M]

Absolutely not.
She's already had enough of that.

[Qrazy]

I agree with all of this post. I never thought about it critizing films like Easy Rider, Cool Hand Luke or One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest because I saw Network before all of those except for "Luke." Although at the same time I think that all of those films mentioned also do showcase what you described, in that the rebelling center character (or characters) is destroyed by the system they are challenging. Or that they come up against, in the case of Easy Rider.

While I don't think Network critiques those films per se I think it is in some sense critiquing anti-establishment films, especially those which turn a profit. As I said they're all great films in my eyes but I still think the criticism has merit.

In the case of the deaths of those characters, it's not so much their potential success or failure that interests me. They almost have to lose in their struggle against society in order for their struggle to have any meaning. They become martyrs essentially. These are martyrs of principle. While they have failed in reaching their practical goals, they have in some sense succeeded.

What makes Network so chilling is that Howard Beale really doesn't succeed at all. His initial rhetoric driven schpiel against the establishment immediately becomes the property of the establishment. His anti-conformity becomes conformity. He is on the air as long as his antics sell. When they no longer sell he is killed off. And his martyrdom is itself a ploy for greater ratings! The martyrdom itself here is a) driven by the establishment and b) driven by greed. Is he even a worthy martyr? In many ways he's gone completely insane. Although whether or not he is a worthy martyr is almost beside the point because even his martyrdom is lost in the sea of media information.

'The movie ends with Beale being shot to death on live television. As the narrator states that Beale was the first man ever murdered because of bad ratings, an array of televisions play newscasts reporting the incident matter-of-factly, intermixed with the noise of commercials.'

Once Beale is no longer spouting empty rhetorical nothings (I'm mad as hell is robbed of all meaning) and thus easily capturing the public's interest he is no longer of any use. His ratings go down and he no longer has any social currency. He is forgotten almost as quickly as he rose to stardom.


Oh and I still think that the following two monlogues and the scene in which they happens, is the best part of the entire film. Or at least its most powerful, intelligent, and depressingly spot on. Much of it still scarily applies to today:

(Spoilered for length reasons)


Yes those are powerful monologues.

[Qrazy]

She's already had enough of that.

Nothing quite like multiple rolling down hill into puddle suicide attempts to fix that in a jiffy.

[trotchky]

It would be some mighty hard work to convince me that American Beauty and Fight Club are masterpieces. I like Fight Club for the most part, but like is all. I re-watched American Beauty last year and almost shut it off.

Smiley Face? Really good movie, but masterpiece is a stretch.

Se7en? Maybe. It's certainly top drawer Fincher anyway.
American Beauty, like The Simpsons before it and The Sopranos after it, takes iconic, audience-friendly tropes (in this case, film noir) and uses them as a springboard from which to examine contemporary suburban, "Middle American" relationships. It's ultimately a study of human behavior at a particular place and time in history, and a fairly nuanced and brilliant one in my opinion. For a while I took its tagline of "Look Closer" at a cursory level; I thought it was simply making the shallow point of "look closer at the suburbs, because they're actually really dysfunctional," but now see as meaning something more like "look closer at the way each of these people behave, because they're all fucking each other up."

[Qrazy]

American Beauty, like The Simpsons before it and The Sopranos after it, takes iconic, audience-friendly tropes (in this case, film noir) and uses them as a springboard from which to examine contemporary suburban, "Middle American" relationships. It's ultimately a study of human behavior at a particular place and time in history, and a fairly nuanced and brilliant one in my opinion. For a while I took its tagline of "Look Closer" at a cursory level; I thought it was simply making the shallow point of "look closer at the suburbs, because they're actually really dysfunctional," but now see as meaning something more like "look closer at the way each of these people behave, because they're all fucking each other up."

I don't see much difference between those two definitions of look closer... I prefer to interpret it as look closer at Conrad Hall's cinematography... note the use of red in the center of each frame... etc.

Also... film noir? I guess in relation to the Sunset Boulevard allusion and the use of irony and cynicism but other than that... I dunno.

[B-side]

L'Argent and Diary of a Country Priest (Bresson) - Priest was beautifully filmed but bored me to tears -- still not sure what the point of the whole thing was, and same for L'Argent (which I think I "enjoyed" more, if only slightly). Those two were enough to turn me off Bresson, but perhaps I just need to view something a bit more accessible (say, Mouchette) to help me bridge the gap to these other works. That said, I still think about them from time to time, choosing to remember the "good" over (what I perceive to be) the "bad." So, that tells me that maybe I was a tad hasty.

Ahh. Yes. 2 more come to mind for me: Pickpocket and Au Hasard Balthazar. Neither wowed me in any aspect. I think I may have enjoyed the latter a bit more. The former felt like simple melodrama that may or may not have been a Christ parable. I liked Pickpocket's execution of the actual pickpocketing segments. Those being the highlight of the film. The rest feels like a bit of a blur.

[Izzy Black]

Don't be like thaaaat. Tell me why I'm wrong so I can grow. :P

Well, I cannot say you are particularly wrong about anything. You did not really say anything about thematic or narrative dimension that I read differently. You thought Sandro's persistence was annoying. Not much I can say to that.



Well, get on it.:)

Cooking up two things presently.

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

Ones I thought were okay and might rocket up with a second viewing:

1. Pickpocket
2. Tokyo Story
3. Rules of the Game
4. La Strada
5. Belle de Jour

[B-side]

Well, I cannot say you are particularly wrong about anything. You did not really say anything about thematic or narrative dimension that I read differently. You thought Sandro's persistence was annoying. Not much I can say to that.

I don't know if I'd say I found it annoying so much as I thought the intent was accomplished the first time she ignored him and walked away. The few times afterward felt like excess. Heh. It's silly, though, as now the next time I watch one of the films in his alienation trilogy I'm going to be searching constantly for overbearing architecture and other various ways the characters are made small by their inadequacies and the material world. I tend to do this. To do excessive theme/symbolism searching. Probably partially why I have trouble with some films.


Cooking up two things presently.

Very nice.

[Beau]

It's silly, though, as now the next time I watch one of the films in his alienation trilogy I'm going to be searching constantly for overbearing architecture and other various ways the characters are made small by their inadequacies and the material world.

That... wouldn't be a bad way to go about things.

[Rowland]

After my recent reassessment of Funny Games, I've been pondering this topic. 2007's Tekkonkinkreet came to mind today, which I suspect I was way too harsh towards. Ditto Day Night Day Night and We Own the Night from that year.

[Dukefrukem]

X-men Orgins: Wolverine: My initial impressions were that I hate it. A second viewing could prove otherwise.

Watchmen: My initial impressesions where it was medicore, but that may just beause I was expecting different.

[eternity]

Elephant is the one film that comes to mind that I absolutely hated the first time I saw it and have grown to absolutely love since. That's all that comes to mind in the immediate.

And everyone telling me that my rating for Paris, Texas was wrong is probably right.

[Amnesiac]

Why such a low score for The Girlfriend Experience?

[eternity]

Why such a low score for The Girlfriend Experience?
I was impressed with the performances and the cinematography, but the narrative structure was incoherent and sloppy. Soderbergh continues to make me wonder why I admire his work so much, despite the fact that I usually never like it.

[megladon8]

I used to have a dreadful, love-hate relationship with Suspiria.

I now very firmly love it, but it took about 3 years for me to decide that.