Match Cut Directors Consensus - Shinya Tsukamoto

[dreamdead]

Onward we move into Shinya Tsukamoto's week. As always list those films of his that you've seen, from the earliest of his work to the most recent. Look how happy he is that you're participating.

http://www.hideto.co.uk/SHINYA_TSUKAMOTO/shinya_tsukamoto2.gif

[dreamdead]

Gemini - 6.5
A Snake of June - 8
Vital - 7

All have incredibly interesting formal material, but his rhythm occasionally plods along.

[Spinal]

Tetsuo - 3.5
A Snake of June - 7

[Raiders]

Nada. Never really interested me all that much.

[Ezee E]

A Snake Of June - 7.5
Bullet Ballet - 7

[soitgoes...]

Adventures of Electric Rod Boy (1987) - 6.5
Gemini (1999) - 8.5
Vital (2004) - 8.0
Haze (2005) - 7.5

[EyesWideOpen]

Tetsuo - 5.5
A Snake of June - 6

[Grouchy]

Tetsuo - 8
Nightmare Detective - 8

[dreamdead]

Nada. Never really interested me all that much.

And yet the man who was smiling above is now depressed.

http://www.artsmagicdvd.com/biographies/directorinformation/images/director_shinya_tsukamoto.jpg

Way to go. :|

[Qrazy]

Tetsuo - 4.5
Bullet Ballet - 7
A Snake of June - 6

[Mysterious Dude]

Tetsuo - 3.5

[Boner M]

Tetsuo - 6.5
Tetsuo 2: The Iron Man - 3.5

[Derek]

Nada. Never really interested me all that much.

This.

[Ezee E]

Why not interested in this guy? His movies certainly have a unique style to them. Black and white, but stylish somehow. A Snake of June is something I see a lot of people liking here, and not just because of the stripping in the rain scene, but the very creepy scene that takes place shortly after. Reminds me of Lost Highway in a way.

[megladon8]

I didn't realize 'til I saw his pic at the top of this thread that he played the main character in Marebito.

[soitgoes...]

These low Tetsuo scores are the reason why I've avoided seeing it. I do have it, and it is short, so I might just give it whirl this week if I have an hour to kill before going to bed or something. I am surprised that many haven't seen more than a couple of films by the man. Where is the Asian Cult?

[Qrazy]

These low Tetsuo scores are the reason why I've avoided seeing it. I do have it, and it is short, so I might just give it whirl this week if I have an hour to kill before going to bed or something. I am surprised that many haven't seen more than a couple of films by the man. Where is the Asian Cult?

It's not bad. It's quite interesting on an experimental level. The style becomes somewhat grating by the end though and it's somewhat one note. I find it funny that you've seen all the films I haven't seen and vice versa.

Vital is the only one I'm still interested in seeing. I found Snake of June to be incredibly forgettable. Bullet Ballet stuck with me a bit more.

[EyesWideOpen]

It's not bad. It's quite interesting on an experimental level. The style becomes somewhat grating by the end though and it's somewhat one note. I find it funny that you've seen all the films I haven't seen and vice versa.

Vital is the only one I'm still interested in seeing. I found Snake of June to be incredibly forgettable. Bullet Ballet stuck with me a bit more.

That line sums it up, I almost blind bought it and I'm glad I didn't because I don't think I could make it through it again.

[D_Davis]

http://www.genrebusters.com/images/hiruko1.jpg

Tetsuo - 6
Hiruko the Goblin - 9 (love this film, so wacky and fun.)
Tetsuo II - 7
Tokyo Fist - 8
Gemini - 5

I need to see his later films.

[balmakboor]

Tetsuo - 6.5
Tetsuo 2: The Iron Man - 3.5

Okay, I'm confused now. I've never seen anything by this guy and went to Netflix and queued up a few including Tetsuo: The Iron Man. There is also something currently unavailable called Tetsuo 2: Body Hammer. These don't seem to jive with your listing above. Is this one of those times where movie titles seem to change depending on who releases the movie?

Or, to put it another way, did I just queue up the one you like or the one you dislike?

[balmakboor]

Hiruko the Goblin - 9 (love this film, so wacky and fun.)


Btw, I also queued this up. You haven't steered me wrong yet.

[EyesWideOpen]

Okay, I'm confused now. I've never seen anything by this guy and went to Netflix and queued up a few including Tetsuo: The Iron Man. There is also something currently unavailable called Tetsuo 2: Body Hammer. These don't seem to jive with your listing above. Is this one of those times where movie titles seem to change depending on who releases the movie?

Or, to put it another way, did I just queue up the one you like or the one you dislike?

I'm pretty sure it was just an error on his part. The first one is called Tetsuo: The Iron Man.

[balmakboor]

I'm pretty sure it was just an error on his part. The first one is called Tetsuo: The Iron Man.

That's what I assumed. I wasn't sure though if this was another one of those "Don't Play With Fire"/"Dangerous Encounter - 1st Kind" or "Zombie"/"Zombi 2" type things.

[D_Davis]

Btw, I also queued this up. You haven't steered me wrong yet.

I think I am one of the few who really likes this flick. It's just so much fun. It's like a cross between an old episode of Scooby Doo, Evil Dead 2, and a bizarre anime. It's got a lot of heart and character, and I appreciate it for that.

[Stay Puft]

I think I am one of the few who really likes this flick. It's just so much fun. It's like a cross between an old episode of Scooby Doo, Evil Dead 2, and a bizarre anime. It's got a lot of heart and character, and I appreciate it for that.

I like it, too. I thought it dropped off a bit in the second half, though - the ending felt too perfunctory, and it could have used less exposition. All of the best scenes are in the school, which are every bit as hysterical as they are creepy or gory or whatever. But it's a lot of fun, overall, I'd agree.

[D_Davis]

All of the best scenes are in the school, which are every bit as hysterical as they are creepy or gory or whatever.

I agree.

The film loses a bit of steam by the 3rd act, and the parts in the school are the best.

[Rowland]

Tetsuo: The Iron Man - 9
Bullet Ballet - 5

[soitgoes...]

I think I am one of the few who really likes this flick. It's just so much fun. It's like a cross between an old episode of Scooby Doo, Evil Dead 2, and a bizarre anime. It's got a lot of heart and character, and I appreciate it for that.
You should totally track down Adventures of Electric Rod Boy. The movie was made for you. It's about a boy with a metal rod that sticks out of his back. He gets transported to the future where a trio of vampires are trying to take over the world.

[D_Davis]

You should totally track down Adventures of Electric Rod Boy. The movie was made for you. It's about a boy with a metal rod that sticks out of his back. He gets transported to the future where a trio of vampires are trying to take over the world.

Yeah - sounds great!

I'll check Scarecrow - they probably have it.

[Rowland]

Why not interested in this guy? His movies certainly have a unique style to them. Seriously. He's like Cronenberg meets Lynch with strong cyberpunk elements and a singular sensibility. I've been meaning to catch up with more of his work... even Bullet Ballet, which I didn't really care for, was more interesting than the best movies from many mediocre filmmakers.

[Raiders]

There are thousands of movies I haven't seen I want to see. The descriptions of his movies has never made me really curious to watch or prioritize them. Just looking at Rowland's post for instance, neither "Lynch" nor "cyberpunk" really do that much for me.

[Spinal]

The Lynch comparison makes no sense to me.

[soitgoes...]

I haven't seen it still, but the film most referenced as a Tsukamoto-Lynch bridge is Eraserhead. I definitely would say that Cronenberg is a good comparison in style and subject matter.

[Spinal]

I haven't seen it still, but the film most referenced as a Tsukamoto-Lynch bridge is Eraserhead.

This pains me.

[soitgoes...]

This pains me.
I know, I really need to see it. ;)

I can't really defend that statement, because I haven't seen Eraserhead to know if the comparisons are valid.

[Qrazy]

I know, I really need to see it. ;)

I can't really defend that statement, because I haven't seen Eraserhead to know if the comparisons are valid.

Valid enough. Eraserhead along with Blue Velvet are my two favorite Lynch films, then Elephant Man and Mulholland Drive.

[Cult]

Tetsuo - 6
Bullet Ballet - 8
A Snake of June - 5
Vital - 10
Haze - 8
Nightmare Detective - 8.5

Really dig him for the most part. I expected to like Snake, but it seemed icky in a disrespectful, almost misogynistic way. The cinematography and atmosphere were still top notch.

[Cult]

The Lynch comparison makes no sense to me.
People incorrectly associate anything weird with Lynch.

[Spinal]

People incorrectly associate anything weird with Lynch.

Like, for example, Cronenberg who lacks Lynch's elegance and mystery. I can see the Cronenberg comparisons for Tetsuo though.

[Ezee E]

Cronenberg I can definitely see.

As for Lynch. Bullet Ballet has nothing Lynchian, but I'd say A Snake of June is apt.

[Cult]

Cronenberg I can definitely see.
Yes, definitely. Both directors have a fascination with the deterioration of the human body (in ways ranging from normal to outlandish) that they explore to some extent in nearly every film they make. They also both seem to be getting more restrained and commercial with age. (Eastern Promises and Nightmare Detective were both big budget and fairly conventional on first glance.)

Lynch...no. Lazy comparison.

[Qrazy]

Like, for example, Cronenberg who lacks Lynch's elegance and mystery. I can see the Cronenberg comparisons for Tetsuo though.

They're two of the biggest english language surrealists, I don't think it's that much of a stretch that they're often uttered in the same breath. I'm assuming you mean when people speak of Cronenberg and Lynch together (excluding Tsukamoto for now).

[Ezee E]

And from the reviews I've read about Tsukamoto, there are several that have given him a Lynchian connection.

[Spinal]

They're two of the biggest english language surrealists, I don't think it's that much of a stretch that they're often uttered in the same breath.

I guess I don't see Cronenberg as a surrealist. Or at least not a very good one. His films are blunt, obvious and moralizing. Pretty much the opposite of Lynch.

[Ezee E]

I guess I don't see Cronenberg as a surrealist. Or at least not a very good one. His films are blunt, obvious and moralizing. Pretty much the opposite of Lynch.
Naked Lunch?

[Qrazy]

I guess I don't see Cronenberg as a surrealist. Or at least not a very good one. His films are blunt, obvious and moralizing. Pretty much the opposite of Lynch.

I'm not a big fan either but I can see the comparisons.

[Cult]

I think some people are throwing around the term surrealist too lightly. :P

[D_Davis]

The Cronenberg connection is most definitely there - both of these directors deal with body horror in a very primal way.

I don't see Lynch much, but I totally see the comparison with Tetsuo and Eraserhead, but it's probably on a more simple aesthetic level than anything.

[Qrazy]

I think some people are throwing around the term surrealist too lightly. :P

Granted not all of Cronenberg's or Lynch's films are surrealistic in nature, but those that are, most certainly are.

[Qrazy]

The Cronenberg connection is most definitely there - both of these directors deal with body horror in a very primal way.

I don't see Lynch much, but I totally see the comparison with Tetsuo and Eraserhead, but it's probably on a more simple aesthetic level than anything.

I know Cult disagrees with me but I also get a very small whiff of Guy Maddin as well... just in terms of kineticism, lots of cutaways/inserts, tight framing and rapid edits.

[origami_mustache]

Tetsuo - 8.5
Tetsuo II - 6.5
Tokyo Fist - 8
Bullet Ballet - 9
Gemini - 7.5
A Snake of June - 9
Vital - 8.5
Haze - 9
Nightmare Detective - 6

I see Bullet Ballet as more Eisensteinian

[Spinal]

Naked Lunch?

Yeah, that's probably the key piece that I'm missing. Haven't seen that one.

[soitgoes...]

Yeah, that's probably the key piece that I'm missing. Haven't seen that one.

You generally hate Cronenberg, right? I'm going out on the limb and say you'll love it.

[Grouchy]

I think some people are throwing around the term surrealist too lightly. :P
Yeah, exactly. Like "Lynch", they're just using it as a synonim for "weird shit".

Cronenberg is definitively not an example of a full-time surrealist even if some isolated elements on his movies (like the insect typewriters of Naked Lunch) are.

[Qrazy]

Yeah, exactly. Like "Lynch", they're just using it as a synonim for "weird shit".

Cronenberg is definitively not an example of a full-time surrealist even if some isolated elements on his movies (like the insect typewriters of Naked Lunch) are.

Or rather I'm perfectly cognizant of the history of the term surrealist both aesthetically and philosophically in painting (Magritte, Dali, Ernst, etc) and film (Cocteau, Bunuel, Clair, etc) as well as the earlier dada movement. If you feel the movement died with Breton or Dali, that is your perogative. The official movement does not overly concern me right now, it is only the foundation for a certain manner of conveying information about the world to which the adjective surrealistic could reasonably be applied. I, as well as a great deal of critics and historians (for instance Michael O'Pray and Graeme Harper) recognize the influence the earlier movement had on the work of Cronenberg and Lynch, as they incorporate many surrealistic elements into their films. With Lynch I am particularly referring to Eraserhead, Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire. With Cronenberg I am particularly referring to Naked Lunch, Crash, Videodrome, Existenz, and other films to varying degrees. No they are not specifically surrealists in relation to the earlier movement. Have they been heavily influenced by surrealism and incorporate many surrealistic elements into their films? Absolutely.

[Spinal]

By that definition, Hitchcock is a surrealist.

[Spinal]

By that definition, Hitchcock is a surrealist.

My point being that I associate surrealism with mystery, the unexplained and dream logic. Cronenberg, while he may have been influenced by surrealism, is mostly a blunt unimaginative moralist. Lynch is far more successful at tapping into something on the outskirts of understanding.

[Rowland]

Yes, perhaps it was a lazy comparison, but I still get the impression of some Lynch in Tsukamoto's work, particularly for its blend of absurdist humor, quotidian perversity, nightmare logic, and industrial surreality. Didn't think it'd cause such a stir, and it's a bit insulting that some would assume I made the correlation simply because I associate Lynch with "crazy shit," which is unnecessarily condescending.

I'd also cite Svankmajer for the awesome stop-motion effects in Tetsuo.

[Grouchy]

Or rather I'm perfectly cognizant of the history of the term surrealist both aesthetically and philosophically in painting (Magritte, Dali, Ernst, etc) and film (Cocteau, Bunuel, Clair, etc) as well as the earlier dada movement. If you feel the movement died with Breton or Dali, that is your perogative. The official movement does not overly concern me right now, it is only the foundation for a certain manner of conveying information about the world to which the adjective surrealistic could reasonably be applied. I, as well as a great deal of critics and historians (for instance Michael O'Pray and Graeme Harper) recognize the influence the earlier movement had on the work of Cronenberg and Lynch, as they incorporate many surrealistic elements into their films. With Lynch I am particularly referring to Eraserhead, Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire. With Cronenberg I am particularly referring to Naked Lunch, Crash, Videodrome, Existenz, and other films to varying degrees. No they are not specifically surrealists in relation to the earlier movement. Have they been heavily influenced by surrealism and incorporate many surrealistic elements into their films? Absolutely.
With Lynch I agree, because his work focuses a lot on the subconscious. Eraserhead I would definitively call a surreal movie.

But Cronenberg? It's not like I'm some kind of purist, but what exactly is surreal about Crash? It's a movie about people with a strange self-destructive sex fetish. There's nothing in it that's even remotely fantastic or breaks with reality except the fetish itself. Existenz is sci-fi - if we accept the premise, we accept the plot and there's nothing surrealistic about it.

Hitchcock had a far more obvious connection with the surrealists and, in fact, he was a huge fan of DalÃ* and De Chirico.

[Qrazy]

By that definition, Hitchcock is a surrealist.

You say that as if it were absurd. But yes in fact, a period of Hitchcock's work does have strong surrealistic underpinnings. Most prominently the scene from Spellbound where he worked directly with Salvador Dali.

My initial statement calling Cronenberg and Lynch english language surrealists was poorly phrased because it suggests a more direct connection to the initial movement. Surrealistic as descriptor fits better.

[Qrazy]

My point being that I associate surrealism with mystery, the unexplained and dream logic. Cronenberg, while he may have been influenced by surrealism, is mostly a blunt unimaginative moralist. Lynch is far more successful at tapping into something on the outskirts of understanding.

The Unsilvered Screen: Surealism on Film makes a worthy case for Cronenberg's inclusion into the broader view of surrealism.

David Cronenberg's horror films explore a Surrealist vision of the body. Whereas Lynch is fascinated by mental states, alternate realities and dream logic, Cronenberg is drawn to the body - its vulnerability, transformations and weird assemblages. Like Lynch, Cronenberg has forged his own vision of Surrealism which is similar to but different from classical Surrealism in a number of important ways. Cronenberg's appropriation of Surrealism excludes the Bretonian domain of the poetic and the marvellous. In Cronenberg the dream-like quality of classic Surrealism is swamped by the abject horror of the nightmare."

[Qrazy]

With Lynch I agree, because his work focuses a lot on the subconscious. Eraserhead I would definitively call a surreal movie.

But Cronenberg? It's not like I'm some kind of purist, but what exactly is surreal about Crash? It's a movie about people with a strange self-destructive sex fetish. There's nothing in it that's even remotely fantastic or breaks with reality except the fetish itself. Existenz is sci-fi - if we accept the premise, we accept the plot and there's nothing surrealistic about it.

Hitchcock had a far more obvious connection with the surrealists and, in fact, he was a huge fan of DalÃ* and De Chirico.

Crash I can't speak to all that well because it's been 10+ years since I've seen it. With Existenz the premise is there but the atmosphere is one of ambiguity and inconsistency. Sci-fi such as Blade Runner, Alien or Aliens constructs a parallel world which functions under it's own clear cut rules. Existenz is all about continually undermining and shifting rules (even if the plot does hang together on a narrative level), exploring uncertainty and pushing against taboos, which are three major focuses of the early surrealistic movement. Videodrome is a film which starts off semi-realistic and then spirals out of control, finally embracing the nightmare world. Dead Ringers does this as well but manages to remain somewhat more grounded. Then there's Naked Lunch which best fits the bill.

[Spinal]

You say that as if it were absurd. But yes in fact, a period of Hitchcock's work does have strong surrealistic underpinnings. Most prominently the scene from Spellbound where he worked directly with Salvador Dali.

Oh, no I didn't mean it to sound absurd. I'm aware of the connection. I'm just trying to draw a distinction between 'some influence' and someone who has jumped in the deep end.

[Grouchy]

Crash I can't speak to all that well because it's been 10+ years since I've seen it. With Existenz the premise is there but the atmosphere is one of ambiguity and inconsistency. Sci-fi such as Blade Runner, Alien or Aliens constructs a parallel world which functions under it's own clear cut rules. Existenz is all about continually undermining and shifting rules (even if the plot does hang together on a narrative level), exploring uncertainty and pushing against taboos, which are three major focuses of the early surrealistic movement. Videodrome is a film which starts off semi-realistic and then spirals out of control, finally embracing the nightmare world. Dead Ringers does this as well but manages to remain somewhat more grounded. Then there's Naked Lunch which best fits the bill.
I don't know. I guess if there's a single technological element that activates the fantasy, even if it's as flimsy as in Videodrome, I consider it as part of the sci-fi genre and not surrealism. But I guess you could make a good case for Cronenberg if you expanded on that paragraph from The Unsilvered Screen.

Admit it, though: a lot of people, even film critics, apply the term "surrealism" without concern to anything that looks outlandish or unreal.

[Qrazy]

I don't know. I guess if there's a single technological element that activates the fantasy, even if it's as flimsy as in Videodrome, I consider it as part of the sci-fi genre and not surrealism. But I guess you could make a good case for Cronenberg if you expanded on that paragraph from The Unsilvered Screen.

Admit it, though: a lot of people, even film critics, apply the term "surrealism" without concern to anything that looks outlandish or unreal.

I refuse to admit it, that's the foundation of my defense. :P

[Qrazy]

Oh, no I didn't mean it to sound absurd. I'm aware of the connection. I'm just trying to draw a distinction between 'some influence' and someone who has jumped in the deep end.

With Hitchcock I would say it's more of a 'some influence' scenario because by and large his films remain effectively grounded in a world which more closely resembles our own (in a certain thematic/aesthetic sense... of course it's still an aritifical world in another sense). But Hitchcock and other directors who employ dream sequences usually fairly clearly delineate them as such (Hitch has a couple exceptions). Cronenberg and Lynch on the other hand heavily blur those lines. They also explore taboo, sexuality and emotion in relation to irreality in a much more focused manner which is why I would group them closer to surrealism.

There's also magical realism, german expressionism and a few other 'weird shit' movements (:) i.e. detached from reality, visually expressive and psychologically driven) that other contemporary directors fall closer to. While such directors work is also removed from reality I would not suggest that they are driven by surrealistic intent.

[Stay Puft]

Tetsuo, the Iron Man - 10
Hiruko the Goblin - 7
Tetsuo II: Body Hammer - 8
Tokyo Fist - 9
A Snake of June -10
Haze - 9
Nightmare Detective - 7

[dreamdead]

Results:
Haze - 8.375 (4)
Vital - 8.375 (4)
A Snake of June - 7.3125 (8)
Nightmare Detective - 7.25 (4)
Bullet Ballet - 7.2 (5)
Gemini - 6.75 (4)
Tetsuo: The Iron Man - 6.4545 (11)
Tetsuo 2 - 6.25 (4)
Average = 7.2459

Did not place:
Tokyo Fist - 8.333 (3)
Hiruko the Goblin - 8 (2)
Adventures of Electric Rod Boy - 6.5 (1)

Most viewed: origami
Most disinterested: Raiders, Derek, and all the female posters
Most interested in surrealism: Qrazy

[Cult]

Most disinterested: Raiders, Derek, and all the female posters
:|

[soitgoes...]

Just got around to watching Tetsuo, and as I feared, it wan't for me. As Qrazy said, its style is interesting enough, but wears its stay quite quick. The Cronenberg comparisons are apt, and I think Rowland is on to something with saying there's a touch of Svankmajer to be found too (or the Quays or Trnka). Lynch? Eh, I've seen Eraserhead since this thread was going on, and I think if there's any comparison it's with his early short films, but even there it's a bit of a stretch.

[Rowland]

Lynch? Eh, I've seen Eraserhead since this thread was going on, and I think if there's any comparison it's with his early short films, but even there it's a bit of a stretch.Yeah, that's all a bit embarrassing to read now. Oh well, live and learn.

[Rowland]

/Tetsuo, the Iron Man/ (Tsukamoto '89) ****Oohh, thoughts?