Shots/Scenes to be Retired from Film Vocabulary

[Qrazy]

Since Rowland's taking too long I hope he doesn't mind if I start this thread myself. To start us off here's Reverse Shot's list (and some other additions by commenters):

Edit To avoid confusion: NONE of the cliche examples in this post are mine.

What are some of your additions for cliche shots and scenes?

http://blogs.indiewire.com/reverseshot/archives/twenty_shots_to_be_retired/

1. Moving clouds sped up.

2. It starts off in a long shot and a guy’s all far away and walking toward the camera and you’re all “Uh-oh am I going to have to watch him walk the whole way?” and you do and it takes three minutes or more. “Ooh, look at me, I’m sculpting with time!” Fuck you.

3. Alienated teen or adolescent girl in the passenger side of a car driving down the highway, window rolled down, her hand swaying in the wind as she zips down a road to Who Knows Where.

4. Overhead shot of protagonist in the rain, arms spread, just letting the downpour COME. Laughing optional. (See The Shawshank Redemption, Pleasantville, Instinct)

5. All side angle above-boob shower shots of women “cleansing” themselves of previous events. (Also: Into mirror shots of people washing faces in the sink, then looking up to examine their wet face in the mirror, mouth open. Extra hate to those that move characters from grimaces to tears.)

6. Protagonist on mass transit, looking pensive. Literally everyone looks miserable on mass transit. This conveys no information other than maybe they don’t have a car. And turn off that fucking melancholic electronica, while you’re at it.

7. Mexican/Sicilian/Indian/Iranian children running through streets without a care in the world, smiling and laughing, running right by a mother who hardly notices them, so busy is she hanging laundry

8. Helicopter shots of anything meant to signify connectedness. (NOTE: Helicopter shots for no good reason, however, can definitely stay.)

9. Any shot of someone throwing or catching a football especially slow motion with background a crowd in soft-focus. (NOTE: Footballs thrown against rubber tires to signify erectile dysfunction can stay.)

10. Dude goes to open a safe or a refrigerator or whatever and PRESTO the camera’s shooting out from inside the safe or refrigerator or whatever. That’s some bush league My First Creative Camerawork shit.

11. Anything with barrel distortion. I will slap that fucking 10mm lens off your camera, hotshot.

12. Shots of people dropping objects from the perspective of the object being dropped.

13. Super close-ups of old people’s eyes. Waking up from a dream or something. It means the film will be from his/her point of view and will probably flash back because we don’t want to watch movies entirely about old people. These moments are meant to instill gravity, because seeing crow’s feet in extreme close-up makes us contemplate death. (See The Green Mile, Saving Private Ryan, Titanic)

14. Epiphanies while jogging—gliding tracking shot, then pull up short when they get winded, physically and existentially. alternative: keep going as they double over.

15. In documentaries: Stock footage of 1950s appliance ads and educational reels for goofy/eerie/conformism effect. Also in docs: comic beats that rely on holding the shot slightly too long on an interviewee after he’s obliviously said something weird/dorky.

16. In trailers: Character’s chest is heaving from the exertion of a hasty retreat. He or she is slumped but still wary, back to a wall. Is it gone? Can it hear me? You can hear the percussive thump-thump, thump-thump of their heartbeat, louder and louder, coming though on the Dolby. Stop heartbeat. Screen goes black. They’re safe? OHMYGODNO IT’S A 30-FRAME CUTAWAY OF SOMETHING SCARY AHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAA.

17 Goes without saying, but shit blowing up while somebody walks away and DOESN’T EVEN TURN AROUND THEY’RE SO NONPLUSSED (buttrock riffs on soundtrack, usually).

18. Old-timey camera flashbulb close-up opens shot. Often in slo-mo so you can see the scorching filament. (See: every Scorsese movie save Kundun—and I’ll have to go check that).

19. Over-the-shoulder long takes that supposedly get in the mind of the character but only show their shoulder, really, and maybe an ear. Doesn’t work anymore, post Rosetta. (See: The Wrestler)

20. Anything like the still from The Pope’s Toilet, above. Yes, that’s right, New York, the Uruguyan film The Pope’s Toilet is coming to MoMA. (Man with his arms out joyously riding a motorcycle)

---

And yet another (can’t believe I or anyone forgot this—it should absolutely be #1): the patented, supposedly inherently nostalgic/besuming Wes Anderson shot, a symmetrical composition with a neutral expressioned character placed in the dead center wearing quasi-ironic thrift store threads as a canonic (or campaigning for the canonic) indie/British Invasion/70s glam rock nugget drenches us in tragically cool sonic goo to impart said character’s lovably disaffected nature. See: Everything Is Illuminated, Broken Flowers, and, from what I can tell from its blindingly painful trailer, the upcoming unholy Sam Mendes/Dave Eggers union Away We Go.

“I am so angry/frightened/delighted right now, I will not only shoot at you with my gun, but I will SCREAM while I do it!”

21. Golden Hour Photography. Hollywood and art cinema alike rely on it for can’t-miss-prettiness and artistic self-affirmation. Days of Heaven was thirty years ago…find a new trick. Has anyone, professional or student, ever done a “bad” golden hour shot? Yawn.

22. Patterned Shadows Falling Over Faces. Preferably while one character stares out a window pensively.

23. Silhouette Shots Framed by a Doorway - usually as a camera dollys in. Another thing Hollywood and “art” cinema always agree on.

24. Labored, super-choreographed, show-offy tracking shots. Somehow, even when I see a really skilled execution of one (e.g. Atonement) it still leaves me cold.

Phone rings. Ennui-ridden protagonist does not answer the phone. Phone rings again. Protagonist’s existential exhaustion precludes him/her answering phone. Phone rings again. What deep malaise or buried trauma. could be keeping protagonist rooted to couch in mystifying inertia? Phone rings again. DEAR CHRIST ANSWER THE FUCKING PHONE.

----

Some common ones:

1) Overuse of clocks and mirrors unless for a very specific purpose.

Also found this site:

http://www.moviecliches.com/

http://filmsound.org/cliche/

[balmakboor]

Nope. I can't think of any shots I'd consign to the cutting room floor. No matter how familiar, any shot is just waiting for someone to give it a slight twist and re-invigorate it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Not a shot, but a scene: I mentioned it in the Let the Right One In thread, but it's worth mentioning again. I want a moratorium on all scenes in which someone solves a Rubik's Cube, thereby signifying that they're "special" in some way.

[Qrazy]

Nope. I can't think of any shots I'd consign to the cutting room floor. No matter how familiar, any shot is just waiting for someone to give it a slight twist and re-invigorate it.

OK but that's not the point. The point is to list all the cliches out there. The cliche can be inverted or amended to create something new but in order to amend it you first have to know what the cliches are and consciously manipulate them in order to give them new meaning.

Another shot that's been overused lately is the lone hand brushing through the top of grass. It's a great shot (or was) but it's beginning to lose it's relevance.

Oh also the shot of someone sitting still while the people around them are sped up has gotten old. Danny Boyle used it in Trainspotting and Aronofsky in Requiem and both worked but then Garden State latched onto it and who knows what other indie efforts have as well.

[Qrazy]

Not a shot, but a scene: I mentioned it in the Let the Right One In thread, but it's worth mentioning again. I want a moratorium on all scenes in which someone solves a Rubik's Cube, thereby signifying that they're "special" in some way.

We could also use this thread for suggested cliche inversion. What if after they solve the Rubik's Cube it explodes in their face?

[Kurosawa Fan]

We could also use this thread for suggested cliche inversion. What if after they solve the Rubik's Cube it explodes in their face?

Or they go on to be the most bland, completely insignificant character in the film. That would be a nice twist.

[Ezee E]

Kundun has the lightbulbs Qrazy. Don't worry.

[Qrazy]

Kundun has the lightbulbs Qrazy. Don't worry.

I didn't make the initial list.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I wouldn't necessarily never want to see them again, but this has been done one too many times recently.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/TwilightTown/Images/aa.jpg
Gladiator 2000, RIDLEY SCOTT

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/TwilightTown/Images/newworld.jpg
The New World 2005, TERRENCE MALICK

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/TwilightTown/Images/MA_1245.jpg
Marie Antoinette 2006, SOFIA COPPOLA

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/TwilightTown/Images/d-1.jpg
The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford 2007, ANDREW DOMINIK

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/TwilightTown/Images/aust.jpg
Australia 2008, BAZ LUHRMANN

[Ezee E]

I didn't make the initial list.
Ah, nonetheless, it's there.

How about side characters that are only in the movie to shout out how crazy things are. Such as Passenger in SWAT Vehicle in The Dark Knight. "Oh, now that's really not good!"

[Qrazy]

Ah, nonetheless, it's there.

How about side characters that are only in the movie to shout out how crazy things are. Such as Passenger in SWAT Vehicle in The Dark Knight. "Oh, now that's really not good!"

Or the kids in Superhero films to capture that sense of awe and wonder. Wow, cool! Awesome! Etc.

[Sycophant]

How about side characters that are only in the movie to shout out how crazy things are. Such as Passenger in SWAT Vehicle in The Dark Knight. "Oh, now that's really not good!"

Ohgodfuckthat'stheworst.

Is it in ever single film that one would describe as an "extravaganza"? It's been going on far too long.

Seems superhero movies especially are guilty of this, with the shoehorning in of a couple of ten year old boys like sitting in a car or with their mother and then it's like "WHOA DUDE!" and it's like BUY THE ACTION PLAYSET.

[Qrazy]

I wouldn't necessarily never want to see them again, but this has been done one too many times recently.


I could see that shot working if the field was on fire in front of them or something... juxtaposing the chaos ahead with the serenity of the protagonist.

[Sycophant]

Or the kids in Superhero films to capture that sense of awe and wonder. Wow, cool! Awesome! Etc.
Repped because I posted more or less the same thing without realizing that you had.

And I rep people who think like/agree with me.

[Dead & Messed Up]

The Vertigo effect. Shit got old before Vertigo was over.

Although I did like the variation at the end of Goodfellas.

[Qrazy]

Repped because I posted more or less the same thing without realizing that you had.

And I rep people who think like/agree with me.

What I like most about you is the size of your rep power.

Oh and I guess like your opinions and stuff.

[Qrazy]

The Vertigo effect. Shit got old before Vertigo was over.

Although I did like the variation at the end of Goodfellas.

Good addition although I also liked it's brief use when the Ringwraiths are coming in Fellowship of the Ring.

[Raiders]

This list makes no sense to me. I can understand things heading in KF's direction of cliched moments in films, but individual shots are part of the make-up of a film. As long as it is effective in context, I couldn't care less how many times before I had seen it used.

Oh, except Peter Jackson's out-of-focus quick zooms. I love the man, but he could use to very his method of disorientation.

[Qrazy]

This list makes no sense to me. I can understand things heading in KF's direction of cliched moments in films, but individual shots are part of the make-up of a film. As long as it is effective in context, I couldn't care less how many times before I had seen it used.


Individual sentences are also part of the make-up of a story but they can still become cliche. I see no reason that visual shorthand can't become as hollowed out by overuse as linguistic phrasing.

An axe to grind. Busy as a bee. Buy the farm.

Works of literature full of overused cliches tend to be weaker as a result (unless the author is consciously trying to invert a cliche for some purpose) and this is true of films full of visual cliches as well. This is most often seen in student films full of shots of moving clouds, ticking clocks, broken mirrors, cameras inside of cabinets, etc.

[Boner M]

6. Protagonist on mass transit, looking pensive. Literally everyone looks miserable on mass transit. This conveys no information other than maybe they don’t have a car. And turn off that fucking melancholic electronica, while you’re at it.
:lol:

I generally agree with Raiders about the list, but it's funny stuff regardless.

[Spun Lepton]

This list makes no sense to me. I can understand things heading in KF's direction of cliched moments in films, but individual shots are part of the make-up of a film. As long as it is effective in context, I couldn't care less how many times before I had seen it used.

+1

[Qrazy]

+1

-2

[[ETM]]

This reminds me of tvtropes.com, which covers everything from anime to written word. I often waste hours there.

[Spun Lepton]

-2

+WAAAHHHH

[Watashi]

That list is stupid.

[number8]

I agree so hard with #2.

There is no context in the world that can make that shit acceptable. I thought its use in Hot Fuzz was funny because of that.

Wait, I just contradicted myself.

[Robby P]

While I agree with Raiders that context trumps generalizations, I have to admit that I laughed at a few of those entries and perhaps even agreed with a couple.

[Qrazy]

+WAAAHHHH

I just don't understand why so many of you are incapable of playing along with a thread concept. That would be too easy. It's all 'Oh look a thread wherein I may demonstrate my superior conception of the art form. Visual cliches? What are those? Such things can't possibly exist because film is a holistic medium wherein a true artist communicates truth about the nature of the truth of the reality of the genuine validity of the honesty of existence.'

Yes, we all know that a cliched shot can be reinvigorated via proper usage, but that may be because it's playing with a cliche, and we may gain something by uncovering these cliches.

[Pop Trash]

While I agree with Raiders that context trumps generalizations, I have to admit that I laughed at a few of those entries and perhaps even agreed with a couple.
Yeah I too agree with Raiders, even if many of these are true. But, seriously, your documentary cliches would mean eliminating every Michael Moore, Errol Morris and Herzog documentary ever made.

[Qrazy]

Here's another one, cutting to camcorder inter-character interview scenes in a feature. Tarantino cut his out of Pulp Fiction because he realized it had become a cliche.

[Qrazy]

Oh Jodorowsky mentioned the one of shooting through a character's legs (foreground). He put the shot in El Topo as a joke for himself.

[Pop Trash]

I'm not sure if this was covered with the Wes Anderson entry, but something that I see a lot of in indie movies is the slow-motion walk towards the camera down a hall or street or something with some song playing. This usually signifies coolness or how badass the character is. (see the end of every Wes Anderson movie, The Virgin Suicides, and the possible originator-Reservoir Dogs but I'm guessing Scorsese or someone did this thirty years ago) That one could be retired and I wouldn't complain (unless it's a self-concious homage to said shot)

[Sven]

Holy goddamn, I'm agreeing with Qrazy. Like Syco, I've gotta get reppin'.

[balmakboor]

I just don't understand why so many of you are incapable of playing along with a thread concept. That would be too easy.

Well, to be honest, your choice of thread title had me on the defensive before I even started reading. If you wanted people to list cliches, why didn't you titled it "Stop in and Add to my List of Cliches?"

Plus, the first few I read sounded like a dig at Gus Van Sant, one of my favorite directors.

[balmakboor]

I'm not sure if this was covered with the Wes Anderson entry, but something that I see a lot of in indie movies is the slow-motion walk towards the camera down a hall or street or something with some song playing. This usually signifies coolness or how badass the character is. (see the end of every Wes Anderson movie, The Virgin Suicides, and the possible originator-Reservoir Dogs but I'm guessing Scorsese or someone did this thirty years ago) That one could be retired and I wouldn't complain (unless it's a self-concious homage to said shot)

I'd call it the Saturday Night Fever shot.

[Amnesiac]

If you wanted people to list cliches, why didn't you titled it "Stop in and Add to my List of Cliches?"

Indeed.

In regards to cliches, I'm not sure if this has been used profusely enough to warrant it being called a cliche, but there's the camera technique that Scorsese used in Mean Streets and Aronofsky used in Requiem For A Dream — that is, the camera obstinately fixated and locked onto a character's face while he or she walks around. According to Wikipedia, this effect is achieved through something called the Snorricam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snorricam):

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5396/snorricam1cv6rx6.jpg

[Pop Trash]

I'd call it the Saturday Night Fever shot.
You mean the begening of Saturday Night Fever? That's close and meant to evoke the same thing but it would need to be in slow motion and be a one take head to feet shot with the character (s) approaching the camera to be exact. Like Reservoir Dogs. Or the end of The Royal Tennenbaums.

[Qrazy]

Well, to be honest, your choice of thread title had me on the defensive before I even started reading. If you wanted people to list cliches, why didn't you titled it "Stop in and Add to my List of Cliches?"

Plus, the first few I read sounded like a dig at Gus Van Sant, one of my favorite directors.

Well you're right that I should have. As to why I didn't, it wasn't my list to begin with. I was just borrowing the title and the list from Reverse Shot and then I thought it could be valuable to compile a larger list of cliches. And also I have no problem with people disagreeing and/or agreeing with certain inclusions on Reverse Shot's list or other suggested cliches by posters but I just think that visual cliches do exist so that while we might not all agree which are which it would be worthwhile to catalogue them.

If a mod wants to change the thread title I'd appreciate it.

[Russ]

I'd call it the Saturday Night Fever shot.
I thought that was the one w/camera pointing down filming shoes...walking.

[Qrazy]

I thought that was the one w/camera pointing down filming shoes...walking.

Saturday Night Fever ripped off Midnight Cowboy anyway. :P

[Dead & Messed Up]

Indeed.

In regards to cliches, I'm not sure if this has been used profusely enough to warrant it being called a cliche, but there's the camera technique that Scorcese used in Mean Streets and Aronofsky used in Requiem For A Dream -- that is, the camera obstinately fixated and locked onto a character's face while or she walks around. There's a specific term for this, I believe, but I can't remember it.

The technical term is SnorriCam.

[soitgoes...]

Not really a shot, but I'm tired of the camera actually coming into play, whether it's rubble, blood or water hitting the lens. This seems to be employed to give the viewer that "OMG, it's like I'm really there!" feel. When in truth, I immediately feel taken out of the scene.

[balmakboor]

You mean the begening of Saturday Night Fever? That's close and meant to evoke the same thing but it would need to be in slow motion and be a one take head to feet shot with the character (s) approaching the camera to be exact. Like Reservoir Dogs. Or the end of The Royal Tennenbaums.

Yeah, that's true. I was just think character following a reverse-tracking camera set to pulsing music to signify "this dude is cool." I ignored the slow motion part.

[Amnesiac]

The technical term is SnorriCam.

I actually just found that out via Wiki and edited my post. Thanks, though.

[balmakboor]

Not really a shot, but I'm tired of the camera actually coming into play, whether it's rubble, blood or water hitting the lens. This seems to be employed to give the viewer that "OMG, it's like I'm really there!" feel. When in truth, I immediately feel taken out of the scene.

It's especially disgusting in porn films.

[number8]

If a mod wants to change the thread title I'd appreciate it.

Don't bother. Why corroborate bullshit semantics. Keep the title.

[number8]

It's especially disgusting in porn films.

:lol:

But seriously, should it matter if it's intentional or not?

[balmakboor]

Actually, I just thought of one. That triple showdown thing with everyone pointing guns at everyone. When I read that Tarantino was going to use it still again in Inglourious Basterds, I let out a groan.

[Qrazy]

Not really a shot, but I'm tired of the camera actually coming into play, whether it's rubble, blood or water hitting the lens. This seems to be employed to give the viewer that "OMG, it's like I'm really there!" feel. When in truth, I immediately feel taken out of the scene.

Yeah I agree with you about using it for the former intent and just using it in general because I don't particularly like the technique, but I think that some directors use it precisely to take the audience out of the scene. I know Trier's used it before and given how Brechtian his films tend to be I can't imagine he used it to try and draw the viewer in.

[Qrazy]

Don't bother. Why corroborate bullshit semantics. Keep the title.

Alright, mostly I just want to avoid further confusion that a) I wrote the initial list and b) I want people to add cliches. Whatever facilitates that would make me happy.

[number8]

Oh: silent gunfights scored to classical music.

[Qrazy]

Actually, I just thought of one. That triple showdown thing with everyone pointing guns at everyone. When I read that Tarantino was going to use it still again in Inglourious Basterds, I let out a groan.

Hopefully he correctly determines who needs to shoot who this time around.

[Yxklyx]

This is a useful thread for filmmakers. :)

One that has fortunately gone away is the quick zoom-in on a character to intensify the drama. Used a lot on TV in the 70s - and many films from that period as well.

[Qrazy]

Speaking of zoom-ins, the whole zoom all the way into the eyeball shot has become something of a cliche.

[Sycophant]

This is a useful thread for filmmakers. :)
I was happy to see that I haven't actually used any of these. At least not yet.

Kinda tempted to make a short project that includes ALL of these. Now where can I find some Iranian children?

[Sycophant]

When was the last time someone walking into the camera so their shirt covers the entire screen, and then black out, or cut to a reverse shot where they walk away, wasn't retarded?

[Spinal]

2. It starts off in a long shot and a guy’s all far away and walking toward the camera and you’re all “Uh-oh am I going to have to watch him walk the whole way?” and you do and it takes three minutes or more. “Ooh, look at me, I’m sculpting with time!” Fuck you.

Dear god, yes.

[Spinal]

Not really a shot, but I'm tired of the camera actually coming into play, whether it's rubble, blood or water hitting the lens. This seems to be employed to give the viewer that "OMG, it's like I'm really there!" feel. When in truth, I immediately feel taken out of the scene.

I have tried to make this point before and it did not go well. Definitely agree with you.

[megladon8]

Doves flying through an incredibly violent gunfight.

John Woo practically invented it, and even he needs to give it the hell up.


Also...


First look at a beautiful woman. She walks in slow motion down a street, and her clothes and hair blow in the wind.


Also...


In horror films - fake jump scares. Example:

The music slowly builds as KATE makes her way towards the curtains in her room, thinking something is behind them.

The music crescendos as, in one quick movement, she whips the curtains back to reveal...nothing.


One more...


Outrunning flames / explosions. Really. Stop this.

[Raiders]

2. It starts off in a long shot and a guy’s all far away and walking toward the camera and you’re all “Uh-oh am I going to have to watch him walk the whole way?” and you do and it takes three minutes or more. “Ooh, look at me, I’m sculpting with time!” Fuck you.

Everyone seems to be agreeing with this one, but to me it is again all about context. It worked beautifully when done in the recent Pride & Prejudice. I am glad that moment is there.

This list just seems silly. But, it also is rather amusing, so it does serve some purpose.

[Sycophant]

Meg's post pretty much outlined cinema's raison d'etre. I'm confused.

[Qrazy]

I was happy to see that I haven't actually used any of these. At least not yet.

Kinda tempted to make a short project that includes ALL of these. Now where can I find some Iranian children?

A friend's script I"m working on has the character pensively looking out of a bus bit *edits furiously*.

[Spun Lepton]

In horror films - fake jump scares. Example:

The music slowly builds as KATE makes her way towards the curtains in her room, thinking something is behind them.

The music crescendos as, in one quick movement, she whips the curtains back to reveal...nothing.

Fake scares are useful for building atmosphere and suspense. Only when they're overused by a single film do they become tiresome. Specifically, the "cat scare" is a cliche, and has been for decades now.

[megladon8]

Fake scares are useful for building atmosphere and suspense. Only when they're overused by a single film do they become tiresome. Specifically, the "cat scare" is a cliche, and has been for decades now.


I'd say it can be useful if it's not telegraphed.

Though the same could be said for "real" jump scares.

I just find jump scares in general to be pretty cheap and uninteresting, really. Even in a film like [REC], the jumpscares it uses are far less effective than the overall terror of the situation, and the final 5-10 minutes which would probably rank among the scariest things I've ever seen in a movie.

[B-side]

Not a shot, but a scene: I mentioned it in the Let the Right One In thread, but it's worth mentioning again. I want a moratorium on all scenes in which someone solves a Rubik's Cube, thereby signifying that they're "special" in some way.

Bingo. My eyes rolled prematurely. I knew exactly what was coming and sighed.

[Sycophant]

When I watched Duplicity, Clive Owen had a Rubik's Cube. I held my breath. Turned out it was not, in fact, in service of that cliche. I let out a sigh of relief.

[Amnesiac]

Bingo. My eyes rolled prematurely. I knew exactly what was coming and sighed.

But isn't the film set in the 1980s, wherein the Rubik's Cube was a particularly popular fad?

[B-side]

But isn't the film set in the 1980s, wherein the Rubik's Cube was a particularly popular fad?

You hush up. Quit justifying it. You're making me question my formerly stern opinion.:P

[Spinal]

The Rubik's Cube makes a somewhat awkward transition from the book to the film. In the book, it is contrasted against a far more complex puzzle game that Eli has acquired from somewhere in the distant past. It doesn't just get used as character shorthand. Although I can't say that this is a cliche that I recall seeing very often.

[number8]

But isn't the film set in the 1980s, wherein the Rubik's Cube was a particularly popular fad?
Then you can say the same for The Pursuit of Happyness.

[Ezee E]

Scorsese is one of the few that can get away with blonde-intro in slow motion. Raging Bull is probably the best use of it.

It's not cliche, but I hate action scenes that have no sound whatsoever for some reason.

[DavidSeven]

I hate action scenes that have no sound whatsoever for some reason.

This was the best moment in Munich.

I guess I could probably find excellent uses of all the techniques listed here. Repeating what Raiders said, it really is all about context.

[Qrazy]

This was the best moment in Munich.

I guess I could probably find excellent uses of all the techniques listed here. Repeating what Raiders said, it really is all about context.

All of these similarly minded comments reminds me of the thread I made asking people which sub-genres haven't been explored very thoroughly in cinema and which have been done to death. People responded with comments akin to the Ebertism; 'It doesn't matter what a film is about but how it's about it'. Well thanks guys! Your insights into the medium never cease to astound.

[DavidSeven]

Ebertism; 'It doesn't matter what a film is about but how it's about it'.

Sounds good to me.

[Qrazy]

Sounds good to me.

I'm sure it does. *facepalm*

[Raiders]

All of these similarly minded comments reminds me of the thread I made asking people which sub-genres haven't been explored very thoroughly in cinema and which have been done to death. People responded with comments akin to the Ebertism; 'It doesn't matter what a film is about but how it's about it'. Well thanks guys! Your insights into the medium never cease to astound.

We're being every bit as insightful as people simply rattling off shots that personally annoy them. But, because we're not in agreement with you and your thread, you choose to pick at us and our "insights." Sorry we didn't just blindly agree with you.

[DavidSeven]

As for as "insightfulness into the medium" goes, it seems to me that the comments refuting the claim that certain techniques are passe in all circumstances are the only ones contributing any kind of depth to this thread.

The other ones bring the laughs though.

[balmakboor]

I have a feeling that the best thing I did to enhance my appreciation for Let the Right One In was to skip The Pursuit of Happiness.

[Qrazy]

We're being every bit as insightful as people simply rattling off shots that personally annoy them. But, because we're not in agreement with you and your thread, you choose to pick at us and our "insights." Sorry we didn't just blindly agree with you.

a) Reiterating once more, I did not write the initial list.
b) For the most part this is not about shots that personally annoy, it's about shots that are overused and have thus become cliche. Discovering cliches is half the battle in terms of avoiding or inverting them in the future.
c) It has nothing to do with agreement or disagreement concerning particular shot selections. It has to do with making transparent blanket statements that preclude any further discussion on a topic.

What are some visual cliches? There are none, context is everything.
What are some sub-genres worth exploring? It doesn't matter because what a film is about has no importance.
Etc.

[Raiders]

So in other words I am not entitled to be of the opinion that no particular shot should be discarded since the value of the shot lies within the context it is used? I already brought up #2, which multiple people had agreed with, and thought it was recently used very effectively in Pride & Prejudice where the shot was at the service of the filmmakers' attempts at providing a small moment where a character (and another character's perception) slowly grow from the foggy distant to the clear, up close truth.

Again, it is context. I have a few peeves I suppose, but I would never close my mind to the possibility of them being effectively used. I just don't understand the impulse to create such a list (I also know you didn't make the original list, but by posting it and seemingly taking offense to my questioning of its merit, you seem to have inherited their opinions).

[Qrazy]

As for as "insightfulness into the medium" goes, it seems to me that the comments refuting the claim that certain techniques are passe in all circumstances are the only ones contributing any kind of depth to this thread.

The other ones bring the laughs though.

I don't think anyone is saying that. Rather I'm saying that visual cliches exist, let's uncover what they are and where they show themselves.

It's clear to anyone with a modicum of knowledge about the matter that a cliche can be inverted or amended in order to reinvigorate it. This does not mean that the cliche does not exist in the first place. To make a blanket statement to the effect that there are no visual cliches because all scenes/images are entirely context sensitive is simply a dead end. It tells us little to nothing about visual semiotics and frequently used imagery. Yes it's true in a sense, but it leads us nowhere. I apologize for borrowing the term 'retired' from the original article in the creation of this thread because it suggests an absolutist position which I do not subscribe to. What interests me is uncovering visual cliches. Literary cliches are much more easily uncovered because of the way in which we use language. Visual cliches on the other hand you have to search to find.

[Fezzik]

I'm not sure if this was covered with the Wes Anderson entry, but something that I see a lot of in indie movies is the slow-motion walk towards the camera down a hall or street or something with some song playing. This usually signifies coolness or how badass the character is. (see the end of every Wes Anderson movie, The Virgin Suicides, and the possible originator-Reservoir Dogs but I'm guessing Scorsese or someone did this thirty years ago) That one could be retired and I wouldn't complain (unless it's a self-concious homage to said shot)


Does this include group shots? The Right Stuff comes to mind. They spoofed it nicely in Monsters, Inc.

[Qrazy]

So in other words I am not entitled to be of the opinion that no particular shot should be discarded since the value of the shot lies within the context it is used? I already brought up #2, which multiple people had agreed with, and thought it was recently used very effectively in Pride & Prejudice where the shot was at the service of the filmmakers' attempts at providing a small moment where a character (and another character's perception) slowly grow from the foggy distant to the clear, up close truth.

Yes, it's entirely reasonable for you to critique particular suggestions and to cite instances where they are used well, I welcome that. That doesn't mean that it still hasn't become a cliche, even when it's used to successful effect. I haven't seen Pride and Prejudice but as a counter-example I recently saw the shot used in Revolutionary Road (just after her play) and it struck me as an incredibly transparent attempt from Mendes to communicate the distance between the two leads.


Again, it is context. I have a few peeves I suppose, but I would never close my mind to the possibility of them being effectively used. I just don't understand the impulse to create such a list (I also know you didn't make the original list, but by posting it and seemingly taking offense to my questioning of its merit, you seem to have inherited their opinions).

Whether or not they can be used effectively is not the point of the thread though. The point, which apparently I didn't make sufficiently clear from the beginning, and for that I apologize, is to discover visual cliches. Sometimes a cliche may be successfully inverted, but the cliche still exists (in terms of a shot/scene/technique being over used and losing it's meaning through overuse).

I do not mind if you disagree with some or all of the original list. I am not defending their selections. What I'm trying to support is the exploration of visual cliches. I think it's valuable for first time filmmakers and for film viewers in general to know what they are so that perhaps next time we see a shot through the legs or a pensive individual staring out of a bus we can determine if it's just a standard cliche or if the director is doing something interesting with the shot/technique.

[Qrazy]

http://www.fulltable.com/VTS/c/cliche/im/02.jpg

[lovejuice]

not exactly in movies, but in trailer/teaser/poster, i'll never want to hear or read the phase "something you have never seen before" again.

[Sycophant]

not exactly in movies, but in trailer/teaser/poster, i'll never want to hear or read the phase "something you have never seen before" again.

Also another trailer cliche/peeve, "yadda yadda yadda, beyond anything you can imagine!" or "beyond your imagination!" 'cause that's kind of insulting and usually completely false.

Edit: I can imagine some awesome and/or crazy shit.

[number8]

BLA BLA BLA BLA WHAT IS CLICHE WHAT IS BETTER USE OF FILM BLA SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Keep listing. I want the funny.

[number8]

It's not cliche, but I hate action scenes that have no sound whatsoever for some reason.

Do you mean completely silent, or silent but with music on top? I'd argue that the latter is very cliche.

[Grouchy]

Taking this in a slightly different direction, things I don't like in movies, mostly Hollywood, that are not necessarily shots but actions:

- When someone coughs in movies, they're going to die later on.

- When someone drinks in Hollywood movies they are usually villains or have an alcohol problem. Drinking = problems

- Nobody locks their cars. Characters just slam the door and walk away as quickly as possible.

- When they phone someone who is sleeping, he/she turns on the light. Something I'd never do if someone wakes me up in real life.

[DavidSeven]

Why don't movie characters ever say "bye" before they hang up the phone?

[Qrazy]

Taking this in a slightly different direction, things I don't like in movies, mostly Hollywood, that are not necessarily shots but actions:

- When someone coughs in movies, they're going to die later on.

- When someone drinks in Hollywood movies they are usually villains or have an alcohol problem. Drinking = problems

- Nobody locks their cars. Characters just slam the door and walk away as quickly as possible.

- When they phone someone who is sleeping, he/she turns on the light. Something I'd never do if someone wakes me up in real life.

Ah yeah, there's the whole driving at dark with the overhead light on phenomenon as well.

[Cult]

Why don't movie characters ever say "bye" before they hang up the phone?
I know! Talk about rude.

[Qrazy]

BLA BLA BLA BLA WHAT IS CLICHE WHAT IS BETTER USE OF FILM BLA SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Keep listing. I want the funny.

From... http://www.moviecliches.com/cliche2.html#heroes

Any person waking from a nightmare will sit bolt upright ("boing!") in bed. Instead of just lying there going "eeewww!" as most of us do.

The Movie Telephone Time Vortex.
How often have you seen something like this:
Phone rings. Hero/Heroine picks it up. "Hello. Yes. O.k. Right. Thanks, Goodbye." (Total elapsed time on phone: 5 seconds.)
Hero/Heroine turns to other character: "That was John. He says that the Marilyn left for the lawyer's office about an hour ago, and she should have been there by now. He's called the lawyer's office but Marilyn apparently never got there. He also called Bill's, thinking she'd stop by there, but Bill hasn't seen her. John says he's going to call Anne, as Marilyn said she and Ann were going to go shopping sometime today. If she's not at Anne's, he's going to call the police. He suggests that we drive over to Mario's and check with him as to whether or not Marilyn told Wally about the statue. However, he thinks this is unlikely as Marilyn doesn't trust Wally, she only trusts us and Fransisco. John also suggests we try to get in touch with Fransisco . . . ."

If someone wants to call the hero, he/she will let the phone ring forever before hanging up, expecially if the caller does not know that the hero has to fight his way to the phone through a bunch of bad guys.

More murders always happen during the investigation of the first one. The last living suspect is the murderer.

Time will stand still when when the hero is in the presence of a company logo.

A character turns on the radio just in time to hear a special announcement or some important news item. Then turns the radio off.
ex.:
CLICK
"Three escaped lunatics have been spotted in . blah blah blah."
CLICK

At some point in a duel, the hero and villain will cross swords at face level, allowing them to grip each other's weapon while making nasty/sarcastic comments before they break the clinch and continue fighting. (Why doesn't anyone just ram the sword guard into their opponent's face, stun him, and then finish him off?)

People can be rendered inoperative by bumping them on the head. Beware, though; after you have left the scene, this person will regain consciousness and be more determinted to attack you.

Corollary: whenever someone falls off of a cliff or building, no matter how much damage they take beforehand, they scream, even if they were shot through the lungs twenty or thirty times, or were apparently unconscious.

[Amnesiac]

The Movie Telephone Time Vortex.
How often have you seen something like this:
Phone rings. Hero/Heroine picks it up. "Hello. Yes. O.k. Right. Thanks, Goodbye." (Total elapsed time on phone: 5 seconds.)
Hero/Heroine turns to other character: "That was John. He says that the Marilyn left for the lawyer's office about an hour ago, and she should have been there by now. He's called the lawyer's office but Marilyn apparently never got there. He also called Bill's, thinking she'd stop by there, but Bill hasn't seen her. John says he's going to call Anne, as Marilyn said she and Ann were going to go shopping sometime today. If she's not at Anne's, he's going to call the police. He suggests that we drive over to Mario's and check with him as to whether or not Marilyn told Wally about the statue. However, he thinks this is unlikely as Marilyn doesn't trust Wally, she only trusts us and Fransisco. John also suggests we try to get in touch with Fransisco . . . ."


Yeah, that one bugs me.

[Spinal]

I'm really bewildered that this thread is in any way controversial.

[transmogrifier]

One thing I've always hated is characters dreaming their memories in their sleep in order for the film to have a cheap flashback (and to enable the characters to wake with a start and signify what is truly haunting them). Has anyone in history ever dreamt their memories wholesale exactly as they occured?

[Derek]

I'm really bewildered that this thread is in any way controversial.

Really? If there's controversy and neg rep doled out in a TV show theme song tournament thread, is there anything about MatchCut that should surprise you?

[transmogrifier]

Really? If there's controversy and neg rep doled out in a TV show theme song tournament thread, is there anything about MatchCut that should surprise you?

Was there?

[Derek]

Was there?

Yes.

[transmogrifier]

Yes.

Let me rephrase: spill

[Derek]

Let me rephrase: spill

A certain poster believed he could do a better job of running the tournament, ended up taking it too far and came off as being more than a bit ridiculous. No permanent damage was done and it's pretty funny in retrospect.

[Watashi]

A certain poster believed he could do a better job of running the tournament, ended up taking it too far and came off as being more than a bit ridiculous. No permanent damage was done and it's pretty funny in retrospect.
Pfft. It was me. None of this "certain poster" stuff.

[transmogrifier]

Heh. I was tempted to neg rep all of you for Twilight Zone getting so far.

[Derek]

Pfft. It was me. None of this "certain poster" stuff.

:lol: Ok, I didn't want to call you out or anything.


Heh. I was tempted to neg rep all of you for Twilight Zone getting so far.

I'm with you on that and I voiced my disappointment multiple times.

[Raiders]

I'm really bewildered that this thread is in any way controversial.

Nobody said controversial. We had opinions on whether or not any shot should be "retired" from cinema. I argued no since context rules all and every shot has a context where it will work.

This matter of differing opinions should not come as a shock to you.

[Mara]

One shot with two variations that I am very tired of: either we get the hero/heroine walking down a hallway or busy corridor towards the camera in regular motion, but everyone around them is speeding by in fast-forward, or the hero/heroine is stationary and the camera is watching them in profile, while people fast-forward around them, OBLIVIOUS TO THE PAIN.

[Fezzik]

Also another trailer cliche/peeve, "yadda yadda yadda, beyond anything you can imagine!" or "beyond your imagination!" 'cause that's kind of insulting and usually completely false.

Edit: I can imagine some awesome and/or crazy shit.

That brought this to mind :D

Luke: If you were to rescue her, the reward would be....

Han: What?

Luke: Well, more well than you can imagine!

Han: I dunno, I can imagine quite a bit.

[Mara]

I have a list of cliches that are done to death in trailers. I actually get angry. I talk to the trailer and tell it how much I hate it.

[number8]

When asked if he ever once think about something/someone, the hero always replies "Everyday."

Because "Everyday" sounds deeper than "All the time" or "Yeah, sure."

[balmakboor]

One thing I've always hated is characters dreaming their memories in their sleep in order for the film to have a cheap flashback (and to enable the characters to wake with a start and signify what is truly haunting them). Has anyone in history ever dreamt their memories wholesale exactly as they occured?

My favorite movies -- or stories of any kind -- are ones that never tell us any backstory.

I think a writer should write a very elaborate backstory and then never include any of it. Just hint at it. The character will talk and behave and react to things in a way that a person with that backstory would. And someone paying attention could piece together a backstory pretty close to the one the writer has stashed in his drawer.

Ordinary People for example would be better -- I think -- without those dream flashbacks to the accident.

Uhh, I guess this isn't really pertinent to this thread though. It just sort of came to me.

[balmakboor]

Another shot that's been overused lately is the lone hand brushing through the top of grass.

Oh also the shot of someone sitting still while the people around them are sped up has gotten old.

I was re-reading the comments in this thread and found it amusing that both of these were mentioned by others without the awareness that you had mentioned them first. Oh well, too much reading, too little time. I certainly don't read every word of every post around here.

[Amnesiac]

My favorite movies -- or stories of any kind -- are ones that never tell us any backstory.

I think a writer should write a very elaborate backstory and then never include any of it. Just hint at it. The character will talk and behave and react to things in a way that a person with that backstory would. And someone paying attention could piece together a backstory pretty close to the one the writer has stashed in his drawer.

Yes, I really like that approach as well. There Will Be Blood is a good example of this.

[Qrazy]

I was re-reading the comments in this thread and found it amusing that both of these were mentioned by others without the awareness that you had mentioned them first. Oh well, too much reading, too little time. I certainly don't read every word of every post around here.

No one cares what I have to say.

:cry:

:lol:

[Dead & Messed Up]

I'm really tired of the scene late in the film where someone says, "Wait, so let me get this straight!"

And then they define the previous story up to that point and the new goals in the final act for the ease of those dumb people in the audience who can't fricking put two and two together.

[Winston*]

When people say "I'll have a beer" or "Can I get a pack of cigarettes" still bothers me. No one does that ever.

[Qrazy]

I'm really tired of the scene late in the film where someone says, "Wait, so let me get this straight!"

And then they define the previous story up to that point and the new goals in the final act for the ease of those dumb people in the audience who can't fricking put two and two together.

A Diversion. - Legolas

[megladon8]

A character goes to NYC and the city is covered in homeless people, thugs, and people begging for crack money.

Even worse if said character is mugged within 5 minutes of landing at Laguardia/JFK.

I suppose it's less annoying if it's "old New York" which kind of was a cess pool. But I honestly feel safer in NYC than in downtown Ottawa.

[[ETM]]

When people say "I'll have a beer" (...) still bothers me. No one does that ever.

They did in these parts. "Beer" was only what our local brewery produces, and is what most people still consume daily. All the rest is named with its respective brand.

But yeah.

[Winston*]

;149497']They did in these parts. "Beer" was only what our local brewery produces, and is what most people still consume daily. All the rest is named with its respective brand.

But yeah.

You live in the movie Repo Man?

[[ETM]]

You live in the movie Repo Man?

Yes.

[Dukefrukem]

Another shot that's been overused lately is the lone hand brushing through the top of grass. It's a great shot (or was) but it's beginning to lose it's relevance.



So damn true.

[number8]

A Diversion. - Legolas
Still the funniest part of the movie. I love the shot of Gandalf immediately after that almost looks like he's thinking, "Yes, a diversion, we just said that, you fucking idiot."

[Qrazy]

Still the funniest part of the movie. I love the shot of Gandalf immediately after that almost looks like he's thinking, "Yes, a diversion, we just said that, you fucking idiot."

Haha yeah, I can't wait to see McKellen back for The Hobbit.

[Derek]

A character goes to NYC and the city is covered in homeless people, thugs, and people begging for crack money.

Even worse if said character is mugged within 5 minutes of landing at Laguardia/JFK.

I suppose it's less annoying if it's "old New York" which kind of was a cess pool. But I honestly feel safer in NYC than in downtown Ottawa.

Pre-Giuliani New York was kinda like that before he shut everything down and shipped the homeless upstate. I went there several times in my junior high and high school years (mid- to late-90s) and anywhere in the vicinity of 42nd Street was a cesspool with a good 5 or 6 strip joints/nudie clubs/adult bookstores per block. I can't tell you how many homeless/poor people propositioned schemes to getting me into certain joints or fake ID's. It's definitely not like that anymore, but "old New York" isn't as long ago as some people think.

[Ezee E]

Pre-Giuliani New York was kinda like that before he shut everything down and shipped the homeless upstate. I went there several times in my junior high and high school years (mid- to late-90s) and anywhere in the vicinity of 42nd Street was a cesspool with a good 5 or 6 strip joints/nudie clubs/adult bookstores per block. I can't tell you how many homeless/poor people propositioned schemes to getting me into certain joints or fake ID's. It's definitely not like that anymore, but "old New York" isn't as long ago as some people think.
early 90's?

[Derek]

early 90's?

A complete sentence might help me understand what this question is supposed to be asking. :) As late as '96, I was in parts of Manhattan that were like that if that's what you were asking.

[Ezee E]

A complete sentence might help me understand what this question is supposed to be asking. :) As late as '96, I was in parts of Manhattan that were like that if that's what you were asking.
You answered just fine.

[Bosco B Thug]

Okay this really has very little to do with the topic, but I think other posters have taken similar liberties.

Throughout my whole life as a human being, I've hated it (in a movie/TV show/book/etc.) when a story involves the smearing or wrecking or false accusation aimed toward a character's reputation, and then the character resolves the situation so everything is happy-go-lucky again... but without clearing or setting the record straight on the circumstances that ruined him in the first place.

It's a comedy situation usually. It happens all the time in sitcoms I believe. I think Mean Girls frustrated me due to this. Not sure.

[balmakboor]

...when a story involves the smearing or wrecking or false accusation aimed toward a character's reputation, and then the character resolves the situation so everything is happy-go-lucky again... but without clearing or setting the record straight on the circumstances that ruined him in the first place.

I'm not quite sure I know what you mean. Maybe I'm slow and need an example. But, wouldn't stories often play out like you describe if the false accusation wasn't false at all. His not setting the record straight is a way of showing his acceptance in the end of what had been said about him in the beginning.

[balmakboor]

This probably doesn't fit the subject, but I was wandering through Best Buy today and was looking at a copy of Zombie Strippers with Jenna Jameson. It's packaging made it look like some grindhouse picture and I thought, "I hate it how so many movies nowadays are made with the goal of being the next cult classic." I remember the good old days when cult movies happened by accident. It just seems all wrong to try to make one on purpose.

[Bosco B Thug]

I'm not quite sure I know what you mean. Maybe I'm slow and need an example. But, wouldn't stories often play out like you describe if the false accusation wasn't false at all. His not setting the record straight is a way of showing his acceptance in the end of what had been said about him in the beginning.
Mean Girls is a less emblematic example, since she was definitely responsible for much of her downfall.

Hmm, I don't know if I can think of a direct example. One has to come to me sooner or later, though. It's pretty straightforward, though, usually it doesn't involve what you mention. It's always a misunderstanding, a false accusation, an unfair appraisal of one's character.

[eternity]

This probably doesn't fit the subject, but I was wandering through Best Buy today and was looking at a copy of Zombie Strippers with Jenna Jameson. It's packaging made it look like some grindhouse picture and I thought, "I hate it how so many movies nowadays are made with the goal of being the next cult classic." I remember the good old days when cult movies happened by accident. It just seems all wrong to try to make one on purpose.
At least all of the actual cult classics end up still being on accident. The Room, for instance.

[balmakboor]

At least all of the actual cult classics end up still being on accident. The Room, for instance.

Or Brick -- which you loved and I almost hated -- is certainly a cult film and yet it doesn't have any of the usual "I'm trying to be the next cult film" hallmarks.

The recent Cthulhu sounds like it might be heading that way as well.

I haven't decided yet about Southland Tales. I don't know if it's so bad it's good for some people on purpose or by accident.

The Room? Hmmm, I'm going to look it up. Haven't heard of it.

[balmakboor]

This probably doesn't fit the subject, but I was wandering through Best Buy today and was looking at a copy of Zombie Strippers with Jenna Jameson. It's packaging made it look like some grindhouse picture and I thought, "I hate it how so many movies nowadays are made with the goal of being the next cult classic." I remember the good old days when cult movies happened by accident. It just seems all wrong to try to make one on purpose.

Or another variation on this is how many box sets of "grindhouse" movies I saw in the Best Buy horror section. Five Grindhouse double-bills for $29 and stuff like that. I look at them and think, "What a clever way to get people to pay for a lot of crap."

[megladon8]

The line "revenge is a dish best served cold" and all variations should be stricken from film lingo forever.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Or Brick -- which you loved and I almost hated -- is certainly a cult film and yet it doesn't have any of the usual "I'm trying to be the next cult film" hallmarks.

The recent Cthulhu sounds like it might be heading that way as well.

Seems to me that the mark of a cult film is one that is unapologetic and completely sincere, regardless of subject matter. Hopefully Cthulhu becomes a cult film. The flick deserves it.

[megladon8]

Seems to me that the mark of a cult film is one that is unapologetic and completely sincere, regardless of subject matter. Hopefully Cthulhu becomes a cult film. The flick deserves it.


It really does.

Capturing Lovecraft's brand of terror on film seems to be really difficult, and I think this is one of the very best examples.

This reminds me of something someone (I believe it was fasozupow) recently mentioned - how so many films these days are trying to look like the next Grindhouse / cult film sensation. This practice defeats the entire purpose of "grindhouse" cinema.

[eternity]

Or Brick -- which you loved and I almost hated -- is certainly a cult film and yet it doesn't have any of the usual "I'm trying to be the next cult film" hallmarks.

The recent Cthulhu sounds like it might be heading that way as well.

I haven't decided yet about Southland Tales. I don't know if it's so bad it's good for some people on purpose or by accident.

The Room? Hmmm, I'm going to look it up. Haven't heard of it.
The Room is definitely a cult film, but in a "so-bad-it's-awesome" way. It's been described as the movie that shows how to do every possible thing wrong in a movie.

But yeah, Brick definitely has its cult following now. That surprises me and makes me very happy.

[BuffaloWilder]

I used #2 in something I wrote

oh no