2008 - Top 20 countdown followed by the matchie® awards!!!

[Mara]

May I confess that when this thread began, I was hoping that The Matchies were awards for posters, not films? And that I was planning on whoring for Miss Congeniality?

Perhaps better to say nothing.

[dreamdead]

Looking at these results has made me nostalgic to rewatch Speed Racer and determine whether or not the exuberance of that film on a big-screen can be replicated on dvd.

This will also be a year when I check out all the documentaries nominated from this year...

[ledfloyd]

more?

[Raiders]

Yeah, Ben Lyons can't even be counted on to finish the ceremony.

[Qrazy]

How is City of Ember?

[Spinal]

How is City of Ember?

One of the best of the year.

Disclaimer: no one else agrees with me. :|

[soitgoes...]

One of the best of the year.

Disclaimer: no one else agrees with me. :|
I liked it quite a bit.

[Boner M]

Got some work at the moment. Will be back in a few days.

[Watashi]

:|

[Boner M]

Tomorrow.

[Boner M]

BEST SOUND EFFECTS

http://www.osirisshoes.com/news/wp-content/uploads/gallery/celebrities_hz/ben_lyons.jpg

Psh-eeeeeeeewwww. BUCKUUUUUSSSSSSH. sleeenk. MAAAARRRREEEEEEWWWWWW. Deez are just a few of some of da most famuss sound effex in da history of the medium. Every since Robert Downey Jr's legendary 'Charlie Chaplin' karakter starred in his first talking movie, Chaplin, after several years of silent moviez (WORST INVENTION EVER). PS, in da new Star Trek movie, if u lissen carefully, the ships always makes a lite humming sound that is actually saying BENLYONSBENLYONSBENLYONS over and over like dat! Pretty kool huh

THE NOMINEES...

Cloverfield

GRUUUUUUUUUUUUSSHHH

The Dark Knight

VVVVRRROOOOOOOOM

Iron Man

I AM IRON MANNNNN AND BEN LYONS RULZZZ

Speed Racer

VVVVRRROOOOOOOOM BUT LIKE IMAGINE A FASTER SOUND I GUESS

WALL-E

ROBBBBBOOOOTIC SOOOOOOUNNNNNNDZZZ

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

WALL-E

ROBBBBBOOOOTIC SOOOOOOUNNNNNNDZZZ

[Spinal]

The funny has returned.

[Boner M]

BEST VISUAL EFFECTS

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rJYxLOsQoII/SVZmE4jXUYI/AAAAAAAAAP0/WYqwPZDEBlE/s320/bl.JPG

OMG FINALLY A REAL CATEGORY DAT ACTUALLY MATTERS!!! Visual effects (or 'special effects' as they r also nown, as 'visual' comez from the latin word 'speshal') are rly the only thing about movies dat matters deez dayz. I mean as good as actors like Megan Fox and Keira Knightley and dat other one that was in a photo wif me are, and as much as directors can be good, we live in a tuff economic time and pretty soon all actors will be replaced with James Cameron cartoons who can do a better job and making emotions and showing their boobz and all the stuff dat actors are nown 4. And wif visual FX there will no longer be da need for stupid girlypants directorz who r like "I IZ NOT WORKING UNDER THESE CONDITIONS!!!". So less celebrate the future, which is ALREDDY HERE!

THE NOMINEES...

Cloverfield

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080421/cloverfield_l.jpg

The Dark Knight

http://blogs.kpbs.org/images/uploads/dark-knight-630-0708_thumb.jpg

Iron Man

http://www.cnet.co.uk/i/c/nws/software/ironman/ironman-1.jpg

Speed Racer

http://nymag.com/images/2/daily/entertainment/08/05/06_speedracer_lg.jpg

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

http://boxwish.com/article/image/618/large/blog_00530_auto_of_the_week_tu gboat.jpg

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

Speed Racer

http://nymag.com/images/2/daily/entertainment/08/05/06_speedracer_lg.jpg

[Watashi]

Duh.

[Boner M]

BEST EDITING

http://media.buffalonews.com/smedia/2008/08/17/06/36-bn-20080817-TOPIX000-thefurtherdecli-145871-MI0002.standalone.prod_affilia te.50.jpg

So liek I no I've been acting like mr. bigshot -i-no-everything-about-moviez but i gotta say, my loyal fanz, I dont rly no wot editing is! Is it liek wen ur watching goodfellas on TV and instead of talking sometimes joe peshy will make a dialtone noise? is dat eiditubg? or is it like wwhen sometimes in crazy old times movies yoipuo cna t shot w a sex scnejehn so dey jsut cut to a train goioing into te a tunnel or something dat iz suggestiuf of a peepee going in2 a vajayjay or somefing... i dunno i guess i can see wiot aditiing is but leik i don't know why dey shud giv awards 4 idt.

THE NOMINEES...

Cloverfield

http://www.flickdirect.com/images/movies/cloverfield/cloverfield_1.jpg

The Dark Knight

http://blogs.kpbs.org/images/uploads/dark-knight-630-0708_thumb.jpg

Let the Right One In

http://thespeakez.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/let-the-right-one-in.jpg

Speed Racer

http://nymag.com/images/2/daily/entertainment/08/05/06_speedracer_lg.jpg

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2008/12/21/benjamin_button_curious.jpg

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

Speed Racer

http://nymag.com/images/2/daily/entertainment/08/05/06_speedracer_lg.jpg

[Boner M]

BEST CINEMATOGRAPHY

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/images/column/103108/lyonshat.jpeg

So now we r just one category away frum da stuff that is really important about movies, like actorz and directorz and writerz. Dis last one is a lot more useful den da non-FX categories frum b4, but it still has a long way 2 go b4 it iz recognised as an art4m dat can even a monkey could not b able 2 master. I mean cloverfield shode uss that moviez r a lot better if the actors shoot tha movie instead of some old dude frum da 1990s becuz everytime i watch a movie i'm like 'well dis is pretty good movie but if these people r so pissy about things den why don't they juss tell the camera dude to stop filming dem'.... well cloverfield is a landmark in da histery of film becuz it actually shows the person filming da movie and gives a reason dat someone so handsome and wif so much ahead of him in lyfe would turn 2 da ugly job of cinematography. THE FUTURE IZ HERE.

THE NOMINEES...

The Dark Knight

http://blogs.kpbs.org/images/uploads/dark-knight-630-0708_thumb.jpg

Let the Right One In

http://thespeakez.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/let-the-right-one-in.jpg

Speed Racer

http://nymag.com/images/2/daily/entertainment/08/05/06_speedracer_lg.jpg

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2008/12/21/benjamin_button_curious.jpg

Paranoid Park

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/screengrab/2008/03/01-07/paranoidparkstill.jpg

Flight of the Red Balloon

http://twi-ny.com/flightofthe.jpg

The Fall

http://stillsearching.files.wordpress .com/2008/05/fall-tarsem-poster-1.jpg

My Blueberry Nights

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/789/789692/my-blueberry-nights-20070517063620482-000.jpg

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2008/12/21/benjamin_button_curious.jpg

[baby doll]

The fact that The Dark Knight was even nominated for best editing here makes me wonder if it's possible to assess good editing as an independent category without falling into the trap of giving the prize to the film with the most editing (as the Oscars customarily do). Look at Two Lovers: Isabella Rossellini's disapproval of Gwenyth Paltrow is communicated entirely through her reaction shots. In this case, story, performance, direction and editing are all inseparable because they're all working in the same direction.

Now, when it comes to simple editing choices like that, The Dark Knight is woefully inept. Every dialogue scene is covered in exactly the same way: an epic long of two characters standing in one corner of a huge, empty room with the camera slowly tracking left or right, followed by alternating close-ups of actors giving the audience lots of expository information. Judex it ain't.

As for the action scenes, which are the film's real reason for being (if any one tries to pull that zeitgeist shit in here, I'll knock them out), the film doesn't even distinguish itself on that level. Again, one can look at the car chase in James Gray's We Own the Night, where Joaquin Pheonix's reaction shots are as important as the action. And then compare that the action scenes in The Dark Knight which are semi-comprehensible movement and noise with no real emotional investment.

[baby doll]

Also, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button for best cinematography? Do you guys even care about good cinematography, or do you just go along with the Academy's view that dark, contrasty lighting equals seriousness? I realize not many people have seen Hou's Le Voyage du ballon rouge--which does wonderful things with long lenses, shallow depth of field, and using tungsten and daylight-balanced lights in the same shot--but surely there were mainstream films with superior lighting.

[ledfloyd]

i voted for hou's film. best cinematography for sure. also, the dark knight is possibly the worst edited film i saw last year.

[Boner M]

Yeah, I think people were confusing 'best editing' with 'most editing' this year.

[Winston*]

I'll admit the craft of Cloverfield hasn't really stuck with me that well, but isn't that a weirder choice for editing? Isn't it just a bunch of long continuous handicam shots?

[baby doll]

I'll admit the craft of Cloverfield hasn't really stuck with me that well, but isn't that a weirder choice for editing? Isn't it just a bunch of long continuous handicam shots?I haven't seen Cloverfield, but holding a shot for a long time is also an editing choice. In Béla Tarr's films, his editor, Ágnes Hranitzsky, is always credited as co-director. And in contrast with many contemporary Hollywood films (like The Dark Knight), where it's become customary for directors to use more than one camera at the same time and have no idea how the footage will be put together later, Tarr has a very precise idea of how the film will come together before he shoots it.

[Watashi]

Speed Racer is one of the best edited films I've ever seen.

[Ezee E]

There's a good discussion about how the editing in The Dark Knight is simply more than just picking and choosing shots, and editing quickly. It's in The Dark Knight thread... somewhere.

[Ezee E]

As for cinematography, I went with The Fall which explains itself I think.

[Stay Puft]

i voted for hou's film. best cinematography for sure.

Ditto.

Pin Bing Lee is just about the best cinematographer working today.

[Sycophant]

After reading what he's written and said, and seeing these picutres, having never seen video of Ben Lyons, he seems like an impossible cartoon character.

Also, don't really remember who I voted for for most of these.

Speed Racer may have indeed had the most editing, but even its fairly static (when it bothered to sit still) conversations between, like, Speed and his family were well cut. It did its action and its drama scenes well, usually with a lot of flash. But it was good flash.

[chrisnu]

After reading what he's written and said, and seeing these picutres, having never seen video of Ben Lyons, he seems like an impossible cartoon character.
Watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCmupMjp-4I) and be amazed.

[Spinal]

I voted Speed Racer for editing and Paranoid Park for cinematography.

[NickGlass]

I was not very inspired by the editing nominees--having not seen Cloverfield or Speed Racer--so I voted for the atmospheric, but hardly superlative, editing of Let the Right One In with this parenthetical: (judging by these nominees, are people aware of what editing is? Benjamin fuckin' Button?).

I voted for Paranoid Park for cinematography because I'm pretentious.

[Qrazy]

I didn't vote at all because value judging films is wrong and it personally offends me.

[Sycophant]

How now, brown cow!

[Ezee E]

My nominations for editing. Only one got in:

The Class
The Dark Knight
Gomorrah
Rachel Getting Married
W.

[Winston*]

I haven't seen Cloverfield, but holding a shot for a long time is also an editing choice. In Béla Tarr's films, his editor, Ágnes Hranitzsky, is always credited as co-director. And in contrast with many contemporary Hollywood films (like The Dark Knight), where it's become customary for directors to use more than one camera at the same time and have no idea how the footage will be put together later, Tarr has a very precise idea of how the film will come together before he shoots it.

Thank you for reading between the lines, baby doll. My question seemed on the surface to be about Cloverfield, but the subtext was "I wonder if baby doll knows anything about the production process on Bella Tarr's films".

[Sycophant]

There were those splicing-in moments of what was supposedly being recorded over--and those were done nicely enough--but on the whole, I don't see how congratulating Cloverfield for quality film editing makes any kind sense.

[baby doll]

Thank you for reading between the lines, baby doll. My question seemed on the surface to be about Cloverfield, but the subtext was "I wonder if baby doll knows anything about the production process on Bella Tarr's films".Sounds like somebody got up on the grumpy side of the bed today. It seemed from your last comment that you thought Cloverfield was a weird choice to be nominated for best editing on the basis that much of it consisted of "long, continuous" takes, and I wanted to point out that holding a shot for a period of length is an editing choice.

[transmogrifier]

My problem with editing awards is, what are you exactly judging? Degree of difficulty, visual cohesion or artistic intent?

[Sycophant]

Are you aware of how Cloverfield is shot?

[Spinal]

This thread needs more Ben Lyons stat.

[Winston*]

This thread needs more Ben Lyons stat.

http://www.vegasnews.com/wp-content/uploads/101808-ben-lyons-birthday-credit-erik-kabik5-588.jpg

Is that Stringer Bell?

[Ezee E]

Stringer Bell would never be in such a pic.

As for editing, I seem to have voted for expanded stories that resonate latter. Gomorrah and W. have a lot to handle, whether it is characters or storylines from many different years. It's never confusing.

Rachel Getting Married works because whenever it builds to an emotional moment, they are each incredibly powerful.

The Class manages to stay interesting despite remaining in one room for nearly the entire movie. It was never boring to watch, and with that type of approach, I found it incredibly tough to pull off. This is one that I think many others should see as well, as I think there just weren't enough people that saw this movie.

As for The Dark Knight, the action sequences were all very fun to watch, each building and working on their own. The buildup of anarchy at the end, the large ensemble, it really kind of takes everything that i've just mentioned about the previous nominees, which is why it also received my vote for what I thought should've won. It wasn't because of the most cuts.

Has anyone else here edited as well? Maybe 8.

[Winston*]

As for editing, I seem to have voted for expanded stories that resonate latter. Gomorrah and W. have a lot to handle, whether it is characters or storylines from many different years. It's never confusing.

Gomorrah wasn't confusing?

[Ezee E]

If anything, Gomorrah may have been confusing because some of the actors looked alike. Once I figured out everything, it felt like a season of The Wire (which had similar problems). Each subplot made me want more and more.

I can't wait to watch it again on DVD.

[baby doll]

As for The Dark Knight, the action sequences were all very fun to watch, each building and working on their own. The buildup of anarchy at the end, the large ensemble, it really kind of takes everything that i've just mentioned about the previous nominees, which is why it also received my vote for what I thought should've won. It wasn't because of the most cuts.The action scenes were minimally accomplished (they were at least semi-comprehensible), but isn't the large cast of characters more a matter of scriptwriting than editing?

[transmogrifier]

Personally, I thought the editing of The Dark Knight was very close to the worst thing about it, on a coherence, artistic and simple competence level. Those action scenes were horribly cut together, scenes seemed to be spliced together with a chainsaw (the movie has no flow whatsoever; it's a shapeless mess) and it looks ugly. I can't believe that this is what editing should aspire to.

[Qrazy]

My problem with editing awards is, what are you exactly judging? Degree of difficulty, visual cohesion or artistic intent?

You should know good editing when you see it and if you don't you can defer your judgment to me and I will tell you what you should think and say and do.

---

But more seriously I think good editing makes itself apparent via either a) brilliant formal innovation which ties the manner of storytelling and the film's aesthetic to it's themes and ideas or b) A seemlessness which aids the storytelling and/or communication of the film's themes and ideas.

So certainly not degree of difficulty, and visual cohesion only in so far as it relates to artistic intent.

[Ezee E]

Personally, I thought the editing of The Dark Knight was very close to the worst thing about it, on a coherence, artistic and simple competence level. Those action scenes were horribly cut together, scenes seemed to be spliced together with a chainsaw (the movie has no flow whatsoever; it's a shapeless mess) and it looks ugly. I can't believe that this is what editing should aspire to.
Apples and oranges I guess.

The opening sequence alone is a fantastic way to start off with The Joker. All a buildup to how he can be a mastermind and cunning. The SWAT action under the tunnel builds and builds until finally we see the Batbike (there was another name, but meh) and has a grand finale that got a whoo from a crowd that I can't say I've ever heard before. That whoo wouldn't have come if it occurred at the beginning.

The use of the silent shots is pretty effective too. The shot of Joker outside the car wouldn't nearly be as effective if it weren't for the shock of Maggie dying, or his way of getting out of jail.

[Boner M]

BEST ADAPTED SCREENPLAY

http://www.campuscircle.com/film/BenLyons.jpg

Wen Obama wuz named 'best president ever' last year, he also introduced da best law ever too! Da law was against people writing books! Publishers were shut down, and strikt goverment survailanz was impozed to make shur dat aspiring novelists would stop aspiring! But thankfully becuz we do not live in a totalitatarianizm society, da offenderz were given a choise. They coould either go 2 jail, or they could have their book turned into a movie, becuz nobody reeds books anymore and anyone trying tgo change dat wuz criminally insane! Da only excepshun 2 dis law was JK Rowling, where it was required that da FBI are suppozed to brake into her house and make coffee 4 her while she iz writing. btw not all of this is true

THE NOMINEES...

Let the Right One In

http://fataculture.files.wordpress.co m/2008/05/let-the-right-one-in.jpg

Wendy and Lucy

http://videodetective.com/photos/4547/19097517_.jpg

Benjamin Button

http://murraypomerance.files.wordpres s.com/2009/01/benjamin_button.jpg

The Dark Knight

http://images.onesite.com/blogs.telegraph.co.uk/user/kate_day/heath-ledger.jpg

Speed Racer

http://www.thecinemasource.com/moviesdb/images/Speed_Racer-31-Paulie_Litt-Monkey.jpg

The Last Mistress

http://www.acidemic.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/last_mistress_01.jpg

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

Let the Right One In

http://fataculture.files.wordpress.co m/2008/05/let-the-right-one-in.jpg

[Ezee E]

Pre-DVD subtitles that is. Sweet!

And when is The Last Mistress gonna finally come out on DVD?

[Stay Puft]

And when is The Last Mistress gonna finally come out on DVD?

I rented it a couple months ago. According to Amazon, it was released Nov. 18th.

[Ezee E]

I rented it a couple months ago. According to Amazon, it was released Nov. 18th.
Bah, nothing on netflix then.

[Boner M]

BEST ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY

http://images.eonline.com/resize/300/300/0-0-300-300/eol_images/Entire_Site/20080421/300.lyons.gruffudd.042108.jpg

Dere is rly no need 2 talk about wat an originul skreenplay iz, becauz it is just the same as an adapted skreenplay, only it is adapted frum tha writer'z mind and not frum something that will not exist 20 years frum now. Insted, I'm gonna tell u about the new range of desserts on teh McDonalds™ menu. 1st there is da brand new coffee flavored brownie, which iz really quite delicious and goez well wif da new hot chocolate in my oponion. Den dere is the pear crumble, which if u ask nicely the kid at da counter might serve wif a dollop of whipped creem. Yum! I sher cud use sum of dat rite now! Too bad i have to present your crappy awards!

THE NOMINEES...

Burn After Reading

http://meetinthelobby.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/bradpitt.jpg

Rachel Getting Married

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iLUeZv9jCkM/Sbw0lhKyyQI/AAAAAAAAACM/r_Q8kI-klVM/s400/rachel_getting_married_main.jp g

In Bruges

http://pics.livejournal.com/hobbit138/pic/0006xcyr

Wall-E

http://blog.pennlive.com/pa-entertainment/2008/06/large_wall-e.jpg

Synecdoche New York

http://bugginout.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/synecdochepostertop.jpg

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

Burn After Reading

http://meetinthelobby.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/bradpitt.jpg

[Raiders]

How many times was KF allowed to vote?

[Boner M]

BEST ENSEMBLE CAST

http://images.eonline.com/resize/300/300/0-0-300-300/eol_images/Entire_Site/20080421/300.lyons.gruffudd.042108.jpg

An ensemble cast can meen a lot of fings. Usually it meens when all da actors in a film put on a giant sweater with a head for each person and den try and act and walk together. Liek a sweater, an ensembel film iz made of many different threds, woven together into a big story wher EVRYONE IS CONNEKTD. In da 2005 film CRASHmere, all the actorz including Sandra Bullock, Ludacris, Brendan Fraser, Tony Danza and David Hasellhoff had to where tha sweater together, and together they resolved their differences, in da prosess showing dat while we may alll have diffrent skin colorz and socioneonomical backgroundz, we can still get along if we all wear a giant multi-necked-sweater. Da film was disqualified from an Oscar nominashun becuz da director stupidly left da lens cap on for the hole shooting, and filmd black for nearly a month! Fortunatelty they managed to reshoot da film as 'CRASH' and while it wasnt as good as da sweater version, it still managd to win an academy award for best picture.

THE NOMINEES...

Burn After Reading

http://www.sizzlingpopcorn.com/moviepics/burnafterreading/Burn_After_Reading_Cast_and_Di rectors.png

Rachel Getting Married

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iLUeZv9jCkM/Sbw0lhKyyQI/AAAAAAAAACM/r_Q8kI-klVM/s400/rachel_getting_married_main.jp g

The Dark Knight

http://theitfashion.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/the-dark-knight.jpg

Vicky Cristina Barcelona

http://blogs.the217.com/indiemovies/files/2009/03/vicky-cristina-barcelona.jpg

Milk

http://www.filmmakermagazine.com/blog/uploaded_images/SeanPenn-HarveyMilk-FLm-753059.jpg

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

Rachel Getting Married

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iLUeZv9jCkM/Sbw0lhKyyQI/AAAAAAAAACM/r_Q8kI-klVM/s400/rachel_getting_married_main.jp g

[Boner M]

How many times was KF allowed to vote?
Heh, it actually wasn't close.

Burn After Reading - 12
Rachel Getting Married - 6
In Bruges - 3
Wall-E - 4
Synecdoche New York - 6

[Boner M]

BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS

http://blog.newsok.com/staticblog/files/2008/12/ben-lyons.jpg

Supporting actresses have a prety hard job if u ask me. 1st they have to support da rest of tha cast and crew, giving up their own salary, and sometimes more, if da film goez overbuget. In Da Kurios Kase of Benjamin Butten, Cate Blanchett went so far in filling in for the budget limitashuns dat she ran out of food, and willfully aged for da camera becuz the makeup budget ran out for da hospital seens (deez r called 'framing seens' becuz there were windo and door frames in deez scenes). Too bad she didn't get even an Oskar nom, but forchunatly they r prepared to give her an honorary award for hern hard effort next year.

THE NOMINEES...

Frances McDormand, Burn After Reading

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ne5Lb2SiFHg/SMreRs6C6UI/AAAAAAAAQVs/zP_8o4pwlrc/s400/mcdormand+burn+after+reading.j pg

Rosemarie DeWitt, Rachel Getting Married

http://www.cinemablend.com/images/news_img/10209/10209.jpg

Marisa Tomei, The Wrestler

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_aD6z3HufNnQ/SUCzkfRgdeI/AAAAAAAAMbQ/giw6NnxVs5w/s400/marisa-tomei-naked-the-wrestler.jpg

Penelope Cruz, Vicky Cristina Barcelona

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/arts/photos/2008/08/14/cruz-barcelona_392.jpg

Hanna Schygulla, The Edge of Heaven

http://l.yimg.com/img.movies.yahoo.com/ymv/us/img/hv/photo/movie_pix/strand_releasing/the_edge_of_heaven/hanna_schygulla/edge.jpg

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

Penelope Cruz, Vicky Cristina Barcelona

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/arts/photos/2008/08/14/cruz-barcelona_392.jpg

[NickGlass]

My problem with editing awards is, what are you exactly judging? Degree of difficulty, visual cohesion or artistic intent?

All of the above, and more. My nominees were based upon the form of its editing matching its content (In the City of Sylvia, Paranoid Park) and general cleverness and fluidity (The Class, Reprise, Burn After Reading).

[dreamdead]

I still attribute the many successes of Rachel to Demme and the cast; they were the ones who made the script organic rather than the more traditional arc that we're accustomed to seeing.

[dreamdead]

Rosemarie DeWitt waz robbEd. :sad:

[NickGlass]

Bastards. How could Milk lose ensemble?

[Raiders]

Bastards. How could Milk lose ensemble?

Because Rachel Getting Married had a better ensemble.

[Kurosawa Fan]

How many times was KF allowed to vote?

:lol:















:|

It's deserving, bitch.

[Ezee E]

Because Rachel Getting Married had a better ensemble.
Pretty much.

[Mara]

In da 2005 film CRASHmere, all the actorz including Sandra Bullock, Ludacris, Brendan Fraser, Tony Danza and David Hasellhoff had to where tha sweater together, and together they resolved their differences, in da prosess showing dat while we may alll have diffrent skin colorz and socioneonomical backgroundz, we can still get along if we all wear a giant multi-necked-sweater. Da film was disqualified from an Oscar nominashun becuz da director stupidly left da lens cap on for the hole shooting, and filmd black for nearly a month! Fortunatelty they managed to reshoot da film as 'CRASH' and while it wasnt as good as da sweater version, it still managd to win an academy award for best picture.

I would have seen the original film, I think.

[Boner M]

BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/55736/thumbs/s-BEN-LYONS-large.jpg

Even since Cuba Goodin Jr (MY MAN!) won a best supporting acter oskar for yelling a memorable line in Jerry Magire, the supoporting actor cattegori has been one 2 be rekoned wif. Da 5 actorz here r onez who have kept up da tradishun of highclass supporting actering wif ther powerhouse per4mances inn there films. Wif such immortal lines as "I IZ DA DOOD WHO IS PLAYING A DOOD AS ANOTHER DOOD", "I IZ SHOW U HOW TO LODE A DISHWASHUR", "MADNESS MADNESS MADNESS MADNESS MADNESS", "I AM A SAD LONELY ALKOHOLIK IN AN AZN'S IDEA OF AMERIKA", "I IZ RACIST UGLY BRITISH CABDRIVER ARRRGGGGHHH", and "I FOUND A DISC IN THE LOCKER BTW I AM SMARTER THAN BEN LYONS", each of deez potenshal winnerz have a new catchfrase dat will b repeted 4 yeras 2 cum!

THE NOMINEES...

Bill Irwin, Rachel Getting Married

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/billirwinrachelgettingmarried. jpg

Heath Ledger, The Dark Knight

http://www.reellifewisdom.com/files/images/the%20joker.jpg

Eddie Marsan, Happy-Go-Lucky

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Cvo4jwbe8wE/ST2aJTCGpqI/AAAAAAAABz4/vj4LyfNVacI/s400/HappyGoLucky_02.jpg

Brad Pitt, Burn After Reading

http://blog.ugo.com/images/uploads/burn-after-reading-pic.jpg

David Straithairn, My Blueberry Nights

http://www.zuguide.com/image/David-Strathairn-My-Blueberry-Nights.3.jpg

Robert Downey Jr., Tropic Thunder

http://thepasswordisswordfish.files.w ordpress.com/2008/09/downey3_468x300.jpg

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

Heath Ledger, The Dark Knight

http://www.reellifewisdom.com/files/images/the%20joker.jpg

[Boner M]

4 main categories tomorrow. Will we be total slaves to the Academy, like we were last year? Stay tuned to find out!

[chrisnu]

I await the results with baited breath. Thank you, boner.

[Kurosawa Fan]

4 main categories tomorrow. Will we be total slaves to the Academy, like we were last year? Stay tuned to find out!

Slumdog killed any chance of that happening again.

[baby doll]

I think Bordwell said it best with regards to Heath Ledger: in this context, what would be too much? At least Robert Downey, Jr. was funny.

[Ezee E]

I think Bordwell said it best with regards to Heath Ledger: in this context, what would be too much? At least Robert Downey, Jr. was funny.
I don't think winning a Matchie is going to help anyone's career baby_doll. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Grouchy]

I don't think winning a Matchie is going to help anyone's career baby_doll. But maybe I'm wrong.
It's certainly not gonna help Ledger's.

[baby doll]

I don't think winning a Matchie is going to help anyone's career baby_doll. But maybe I'm wrong.Who said anything about his career? I meant that his performance sucked. In the context of the film, is it even possible for Ledger to go too far over the top with a line reading or a reaction shot?

[Spinal]

Who said anything about his career? I meant that his performance sucked. In the context of the film, is it even possible for Ledger to go too far over the top with a line reading or a reaction shot?

Jack Nicholson managed to do it.

[Ezee E]

Who said anything about his career? I meant that his performance sucked. In the context of the film, is it even possible for Ledger to go too far over the top with a line reading or a reaction shot?

But you took the quote from a critic that wanted Downey to win because an Oscar to him would be more beneficial to him than Ledger.

[Boner M]

BEST ACTRESS

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20080107/293.krasinski.lyons.010708.jpg

And now we moov onto da BIG 4. However out of all the big 4 categorez this is not the biggest as it iz made up only ov girlz. Now dont get me rong, girls r pretty hot but they have never rly contributed artistically 2 da medium of film b4, except for K8 Winslet in Titanic when she strippd 4 Leo and then he painted an artistci portrayal of her, which iz why she got a nomnation dat year. I wuz saying all dis at a party once, and den someone called me a misogymnast, and den i wuz like 'ummm i'm a dude, dont call me miss, and i'm not a gymnast either'. N E way, lets get dis category out of da way so dat we dont look like fagz 4 too long.

THE NOMINEES...

Sally Hawkins, Happy-Go-Lucky

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YFbXKOW1NoQ/SUCd4JsqYoI/AAAAAAAACMI/8ap96uVat_E/s400/sally+hawkins+happy+go+lucky.j pg

Anne Hathaway, Rachel Getting Married

http://theenvelope.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-11/43348881.jpg

Michelle Williams, Wendy & Lucy

http://blogs.kpbs.org/images/uploads/wendylucy_04.jpg

Juliette Binoche, Flight of the Red Balloon

http://www.erratamag.com/images/flightoftheredballoon.jpg

Asia Argento, The Last Mistress

http://www.minnpost.com/client_files/alternate_images/6207/mp_main_wide_LastMistress452.j pg

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

Anne Hathaway, Rachel Getting Married

http://theenvelope.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-11/43348881.jpg

[Beau]

I'd root for Michelle, but I haven't seen the other films, so that would be slightly disingenuous.

[Beau]

I'd root for Michelle, but I haven't seen the other films, so that would be slightly disingenuous.

Besides, the answer came up while I was writing my post, invalidating the latter's existence.

[Ezee E]

Rachel Getting Married to win Best Pic?

Consider me surprised with Hathaway's win, I figured the love of Hawkins would get it.

[Boner M]

BEST ACTOR

http://www.efilmcritic.com/images/users/198/LyonsTraitor.JPG

ALRIGHT, ACTORZ! Aside frum da fact that i have been photograffed wif neerly all these guys, I have 2 say dat actor rly r the people who are responsibel for how da movie turns out. I meen you can have a gr8 skript, a gr8 direktor, a great actor in da lead, but if you dont have da rite actor yer film is jus gonna fall apart & maybe explode. All 7 of deez nominated actorz have 1 thing in common, and dat is they r all what iz known as 'METHID ACTORZ'. dat iz 2 say, they have a certein methud dat makes dem so good. I will not spoyl wut dose methods r, but all i can say is dat Frank Lanjella took pillz 2 make himself sterile in order 2 make a convincing Nixon, while Josh Brolen had a lobodomy in order 2 became GW Bush, while Mickey Roarke was 4ced 2 watch Johnny Mnemonic 100 timez in a row wif his eyelids pryed open liek in A Clcokwork Oranj in order to play da part of Dolph Lundgren. Also, SPOILERS for all of da above.

THE NOMINEES...

Josh Brolin, W.

http://www.rushprnews.com/press/wp-content/2009/01/josh-brolin_bush.jpg

Richard Jenkins, The Visitor

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/overture_films/the_visitor/richard_jenkins/visitor.jpg

Mickey Rourke, The Wrestler

http://jdiazblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/wordpress3.jpg

Michael Fassbender, Hunger

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mh7w-4HS2fI/SVXVS7-VbRI/AAAAAAAADSM/yfuJ60IAJxE/s400/fassbender.jpg

Sean Penn, Milk

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20081114/300.milk.penn.lr.111408.jpg

Brad Pitt, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/13/pittbenjaminbutton.jpg

Frank Langella, Frost/Nixon

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20081023/300.frost.nixon.langella.frank .lc.102308.jpg

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

Mickey Rourke, The Wrestler

http://jdiazblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/wordpress3.jpg

[DavidSeven]

Lame.

[Boner M]

Lame.
Who's your pick?

[DavidSeven]

Who's your pick?

Penn. Brolin is probably tied for second with Rourke. Didn't see Fassbender, Jenkins or Langhella. I think I abstained from this category, but maybe I should have voted since it was only a two-horse race anyway.

[Ezee E]

Voted Brolin. Didn't think he had a chance. Oh well.

[Boner M]

BEST DIRECTOR

http://www.efilmcritic.com/images/users/198/LyonsTraitor.JPG

Over 15 yearz since da birth of cinema, and da directer is still da most mysterious profeshun in filmmaking. I mean, no 1 rly knowz wut the roll of the director truly iz. Is he da one dat tellz the actorz where to stand and talk? Iz he tha one who makes fake rain wen it is a sunny day but da script says it is raining in da scene? Iz he the one who when an exploshin is needed, he just stares at wher he wants the exploshin and den the area he iz staring at explodez? No one is sure, and perhapz only time will tell.

THE NOMINEES...

Tomas Alfredson, Let the Right One In

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2008/10/24/tomas_alfredson_main.jpg

Christopher Nolan, The Dark Knight

http://www.firstshowing.net/img/darkknight-nytimes-hdr.jpg

Joel & Ethan Coen, Burn After Reading

http://www.cineplex.com/Movies/FamousNews/FamousMagazine/%7E/ecms.aspx/Burn3.jpg

Andy & Larry Wachowski, Speed Racer

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2008/05/02/wachowskis372.jpg

David Fincher, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

http://www.visualhollywood.com/movies_2008/curious_case_bb/lowres/lowres36.jpg

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

Tomas Alfredson, Let the Right One In

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2008/10/24/tomas_alfredson_main.jpg

[Spinal]

I thought for sure that would be the Wachowskis.

[Spinal]

Penn. Brolin is probably tied for second with Rourke. Didn't see Fassbender, Jenkins or Langhella. I think I abstained from this category, but maybe I should have voted since it was only a two-horse race anyway.

I also abstained because I didn't want to vote without seeing Rourke, but I would have voted Penn over Brolin and Pitt.

[Boner M]

BEST PICTURE

http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/blog/lyons.jpg

I truss dis categoree needs no intro. CYA NEXT YEAR Y'ALL!

THE NOMINEES...

The Dark Knight

http://thewholegardenwillbow.files.wo rdpress.com/2009/01/dark-knight-joker_l.jpg

The Wrestler

http://www.indiewire.com/images/uploads/iw9/ots/WrestlerNYFF.jpg

Wall-E

http://blogs.kpbs.org/images/uploads/WallE04.jpg

Let The Right One In

http://www.scene-stealers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/let_the_right_one_in.jpg

Rachel Getting Married

http://images.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2008/10/03/rachel/story.jpg

Burn After Reading

http://www.aboutseniors.com.au/images/uploads/clooney_and_mcdiarmid.jpg

[Boner M]

...and the winner is:

The Dark Knight

http://thewholegardenwillbow.files.wo rdpress.com/2009/01/dark-knight-joker_l.jpg




Discuss/bitch.

[DavidSeven]

You can't say Match-Cut doesn't spread the wealth. I had no idea what was going to win going into the final award.

[Spinal]

It's at best the #5 film nominated. Haven't seen The Wrestler yet.

[Winston*]

Let the Right One in
Burn After Reading
The Dark Knight
Wall-E


h/s the other two.

[DavidSeven]

1. Rachel Getting Married
2. The Dark Knight / Wall-E
4. Let the Right One In
5. The Wrestler
6. Burn After Reading

[Boner M]

FULL RESULTS:

BEST PICTURE: The Dark Knight
BEST DIRECTOR: Tomas Alfredson, Let the Right One In
BEST ACTOR: Mickey Rourke, The Wrestler
BEST ACTRESS: Anne Hathaway, Rachel Getting Married
BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR: Heath Ledger, The Dark Knight
BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS: Penelope Cruz, Vicky Cristina Barcelona
BEST ENSEMBLE CAST: Rachel Getting Married
BEST ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY: Burn After Reading
BEST ADAPTED SCREENPLAY: Let the Right One In
BEST CINEMATOGRAPHY: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
BEST EDITING: Speed Racer
BEST VISUAL EFFECTS: Speed Racer
BEST SOUND EFFECTS: Wall-E
BEST MAKEUP: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
BEST COSTUME DESIGN: The Fall
BEST ART DIRECTION: Speed Racer
BEST ORIGINAL SCORE: The Dark Knight
BEST ORIGINAL SONG: “The Wrestler”, The Wrestler
BEST DOCUMENTARY: Dear Zachary
BEST ANIMATED FILM: Wall-E

[Ivan Drago]

1. The Dark Knight
2. Burn After Reading
3. Rachel Getting Married
4. WALL-E
5. The Wrestler

Haven't seen Let The Right One In.

[trotchky]

I think Bordwell said it best with regards to Heath Ledger: in this context, what would be too much? At least Robert Downey, Jr. was funny.

No he wasn't.

edit:

1. Rachel Getting Married
2. Let The Right One In
3. The Wrestler
4. The Dark Knight
5. Burn After Reading
6. Wall-E

[Watashi]

1. WALL-E
2. Rachel Getting Married
3. The Dark Knight
4. Burn After Reading
5. Let the Right One In
6. The Wrestler

[baby doll]

But you took the quote from a critic that wanted Downey to win because an Oscar to him would be more beneficial to him than Ledger.Man, my writing must be atrocious. I don't know what Bordwell thought about Downey, Jr.'s performance or if he wanted him to win an Oscar. I was simply saying his performance was also over the top, but at least it was funny.

[Ezee E]

Divided out well indeed. Nice work this year.

Ben Foster two years ago, Ben Lyons this year. Can't wait to see who does it next year!

[ledfloyd]

the dark knight love on this site disturbs me.

[Boner M]

I kinda wish I didn't continue with the Lyons impersonations after the top 20. If I had done one more, I would've probably had an aneurysm.

[Ezee E]

I kinda wish I didn't continue with the Lyons impersonations after the top 20. If I had done one more, I would've probably had an aneurysm.
But it will become a thing of legend now.

[Boner M]

But it will become a thing of legend now.
I'm almost inspired to create a Lyons version of Bordwell's Observations on Film Art and FILM ART (http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/). But it'll have to wait a bit if I do.

[NickGlass]

You can't say Match-Cut doesn't spread the wealth. I had no idea what was going to win going into the final award.

Neither did I. I just wish the surprised was a bit more pleasant.

1. Let the Right One In
2. Burn After Reading
3. The Wrestler
4. Rachel Getting Married
(all very close in quality)

5. Wall-E

6. The Dark Knight

[B-side]

The high praise for Let the Right One In kinda confuses me. Wouldn't even make my top 15 of last year, and my #15 only received a 7.

[Raiders]

the dark knight love on this site disturbs me.

You must be terrified of the "real world" then where the love is far more universal than here.

[Boner M]

You must be terrified of the "real world" then where the love is far more universal than here.
The fact that the "real world" would love such a mediocre movie isn't particularly terrifying. The fact that match-cut would vote it as the best film of the year kinda is.

[Sycophant]

I did not see our best picture coming.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aame.

[Sycophant]

I'm just going to assume the vote was split between all the actually good movies, making The Dark Knight a de facto winner.

This is a condescending statement.

[NickGlass]

Actually, I'm very curious to see how the voting was spread for Best Picture. Care to share, Ian?

Edit: Good timing.

[Boner M]

The Dark Knight - 7
The Wrestler - 5
Wall-E - 6
Let The Right One In - 6
Rachel Getting Married - 5
Burn After Reading - 3

*sigh*

[Raiders]

Damn. I was torn between RGM and WALL-E and went with Demme. If only I had gone the other way, it could have at least been a tie...

[NickGlass]

I say by far, our best--and, unsurprisingly, most singular--nominees were for Best Actress. The Best Actor lineup is fine, but it's basically just the Academy's choices (Brat Pitt, really?) + two underseen performances.

[DavidSeven]

The fact that the "real world" would love such a mediocre movie isn't particularly terrifying. The fact that match-cut would vote it as the best film of the year kinda is.

But The Dark Knight's appeal extends beyond the traditional "real world." It has support from all sects of the critical community. It's not Titanic or Slumdog where the 90%+ approval is built solely around populist critics -- who are basically just an extension of the general public. Even anti-conformity snobs, e.g. Slant, like the The Dark Knight. People in the industry, too (Herzog - Arthouse, Smith - Fanboy). People scoffed at Chaw's assertion that The Dark Knight was the best American film since Godfather II, but what other film in between has received the same level of support from legitimate film thinkers and casual fans alike? It makes all too much sense that a film like this would win over a forum whose interests are evenly split between populism and idiosyncrancy. The Dark Knight didn't get my vote, but I understand the win.

This is an all-too-serious statement.

[Boner M]

But The Dark Knight's appeal extends beyond the traditional "real world." It has support from all sects of the critical community. It's not Titanic or Slumdog where the 90%+ approval is built solely around populist critics -- who are basically just an extension of the general public. Even anti-conformity snobs, e.g. Slant, like the The Dark Knight. People in the industry, too (Herzog - Arthouse, Smith - Fanboy). People scoffed at Chaw's assertion that The Dark Knight was the best American film since Godfather II, but what other film in between has received the same level of support from legitimate film thinkers and casual fans alike? It makes all too much sense that a film like this would win over a forum whose interests are evenly split between populism and idiosyncrancy. The Dark Knight didn't get my vote, but I understand the win.

This is an all-too-serious statement.
Only Schager from Slant liked it and his opinions tend to go with the fanboy-flow. Herzog likes Harmony Korine, jumping into cactus patches and eating his footwear. K-Fan, Syco, Nick, Sven & I all disliked it and that is all that matters.

This is a factual, unbiased, 100% objective statement.

[Qrazy]

Only Schager from Slant liked it and his opinions tend to go with the fanboy-flow. Herzog likes Harmony Korine, jumping into cactus patches and eating his footwear. K-Fan, Syco, Nick, Sven & I all disliked it and that is all that matters.

This is a factual, unbiased, 100% objective statement.

Christopher Nolan would protect his children with your life.

This is a specious statement.

[DavidSeven]

K-Fan, Syco, Nick, Sven & I all disliked it and that is all that matters.

Yeah, but K-Fan hates the Beatles, Syco just willingly watched Dragonball Evolution, Nick would give it a 7.5 if it starred Tobey Maguire, Sven is iosos, and your screename means erection.

!!!

By the way, I agree with Nick: we can do better than nominating Pitt. Come on.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Yeah, but K-Fan hates the Beatles.

This is a false statement.

[Sycophant]

This is a false statement.

Okay, but you do not believe in their Christlike perfection, so that's just about as bad.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Okay, but you do not believe in their Christlike perfection, so that's just about as bad.

This sentence is only half true. The first half. It's after that second comma that we run into a problem.

[Rowland]

Only Schager from Slant liked it and his opinions tend to go with the fanboy-flow.
Indeed, I've found myself increasingly weary of Schager, whose tastes are increasingly predictable and criticisms increasingly shallow. His review for Slumdog boils down to eighty-seven synonyms for effervescent.

[Watashi]

The Wrestler is the only BP nomination that didn't deserve to be on there. Now that's a mediocre film loved by the film thinkers and casual fans. Blah.

It's funny to see certain posters throw a tantrum.


K-Fan, Syco, Nick, Sven & I all disliked it and that is all that matters.

But Derek and I liked The Dark Knight. That's all that matters.

[lovejuice]

K-Fan, Syco, Nick, Sven & I all disliked it and that is all that matters.
oh! me! me! me! aaahh.....no one ever recognized me. :cry:

[Sven]

oh! me! me! me! aaahh.....no one ever recognized me. :cry:

You matter more than I do, that's for sure.

[Rowland]

The Dark Knight is a mixed bag for me, with the positives generally overshadowing the negatives. The middle act is pretty spectacular as blockbusters go, while its social commentary is thorny in a manner equally unsettling and fascinating. The diametrically opposed reactions it provokes are curious to me though.

[Sycophant]

oh! me! me! me! aaahh.....no one ever recognized me. :cry:

Kick and scream more when people like things you don't. That's what the cool kids (like me!) do. :cool:

[Mara]

Kick and scream more when people like things you don't.

You'd think he'd know this. IT'S IN HIS SIG.

[B-side]

The Dark Knight is a mixed bag for me, with the positives generally overshadowing the negatives. The middle act is pretty spectacular as blockbusters go, while its social commentary is thorny in a manner equally unsettling and fascinating. The diametrically opposed reactions it provokes are curious to me though.

I'm with you.

[Kurosawa Fan]

You matter more than I do, that's for sure.

You both have a place in my heart.

[Ezee E]

Just think, if I voted Rachel Getting Married instead of The Dark Knight, there'd be a 4-way tie.

I wonder how lame people would think of that.

[NickGlass]

Nick would give it a 7.5 if it starred Tobey Maguire

The oeuvre of Mr. Maguire, ala Nick:

This Boy's Life: 7.0
Empire Records (scenes deleted): 3.5
The Ice Storm: 9.5
Deconstructing Harry: 7.5
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas: 6.0
Pleasantville: 8.0
The Cider House Rules: 5.5
Wonder Boys: 10.0
Cats and Dogs (voice): 4.0
Spiderman: 6.5
Seabiscuit: 4.5
Spiderman 2: 7.5 (err)
The Good German: 4.0
Spiderman 3: 5.0

Suck it.

(Well played, though, overall--but to me The Dark Knight would still be heavy-handed, have an irritatingly convoluted narrative, and be unable to decide between being self-serious or risible)

[Kurosawa Fan]

The oeuvre of Mr. Maguire, ala Nick:

This Boy's Life: 7.0
Empire Records (scenes deleted): 3.5
The Ice Storm: 9.5
Deconstructing Harry: 7.5
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas: 6.0
Pleasantville: 8.0
The Cider House Rules: 5.5
Wonder Boys: 10.0
Cats and Dogs (voice): 4.0
Spiderman: 6.5
Seabiscuit: 4.5
Spiderman 2: 7.5 (err)
The Good German: 4.0
Spiderman 3: 5.0


Discounting both of those, since he doesn't actually appear in either film, your average grade for a Tobey Maguire film is 6.75. He wasn't far off.

[Watashi]

If Tobey Maguire played The Joker, then Nick would love it.

[Grouchy]

The best movie won.

[eternity]

Most overrated film of the decade? Yep.

[trotchky]

Probably.

[Watashi]

Most overrated film of the decade? Yep.
That would be Juno.

[trotchky]

The Dark Knight is a mixed bag for me, with the positives generally overshadowing the negatives. The middle act is pretty spectacular as blockbusters go, while its social commentary is thorny in a manner equally unsettling and fascinating. The diametrically opposed reactions it provokes are curious to me though.

The social commentary was a non-issue for me (seriously, I didn't give a shit), but I agree with you that, for a blockbuster, it was majorly awesome, until the gradual downhill slide that started with the introduction of Two-Face.

[ledfloyd]

The fact that the "real world" would love such a mediocre movie isn't particularly terrifying. The fact that match-cut would vote it as the best film of the year kinda is.
exactly. match-cut is supposed to be my safe haven from the "real world"

[lovejuice]

The social commentary was a non-issue for me (seriously, I didn't give a shit), but I agree with you that, for a blockbuster, it was majorly awesome, until the gradual downhill slide that started with the introduction of Two-Face.
not sure if i want to discuss TDK here, but agree, Two-Face is one of the big problems for me.

[DavidSeven]

its social commentary is thorny in a manner equally unsettling and fascinating.

For me, this is the best thing about the film. It's partisanship is impossible to pin down. It certainly shuns traditional leftist thinking that most notably poltical films employ. I don't recall a mainstream film, much less a genre blockbuster, that tackled political pragmatism so fervently. I think the politically-minded people who are disinterested in the social aspects of this film are too quick to ignore the political complexity. They either view Luscious Fox's rejection of privacy invading means as overt and vanilla leftist theme spouting or are too disturbed by Batman's politically conservative methods. But the former ignores Batman's success in saving lives and averting absolute disaster by using those means, and the latter ignores the never-ending cycle of escalating violence his methods produce. I think there are certain highly celebrated political films that are far less interesting because they refuse to acknowledge any legitimacy of political conservatism and therefore espouse a pretty narrow viewpoint. Nolan gives fair consideration to both sides but brilliantly leaves unanswered whether adherence to leftist ideology should prevail if there are lives immediately at stake or whether longterm consequences make immediate action inherently unjustifiable.

[Qrazy]

For me, this is the best thing about the film. It's partisanship is impossible to pin down. It certainly shuns traditional leftist thinking that most notably poltical films employ. I don't recall a mainstream film, much less a genre blockbuster, that tackled political pragmatism so fervently. I think the politically-minded people who are disinterested in the social aspects of this film are too quick to ignore the political complexity. They either view Luscious Fox's rejection of privacy invading means as overt and vanilla leftist theme spouting or are too disturbed by Batman's politically conservative methods. But the former ignores Batman's success in saving lives and averting absolute disaster by using those means, and the latter ignores the never-ending cycle of escalating violence his methods produce. I think there are certain highly celebrated political films that are far less interesting because they refuse to acknowledge any legitimacy of political conservatism and therefore espouse a pretty narrow viewpoint. Nolan gives fair consideration to both sides but brilliantly leaves unanswered whether adherence to leftist ideology should prevail if there are lives immediately at stake or whether longterm consequences make immediate action inherently unjustifiable.

So would you say Nolan's political leanings ultimately lie in a zone of zigzag indeterminacy?

[DavidSeven]

So would you say Nolan's political leanings ultimately lie in a zone of zigzag indeterminacy?

That depends on the definition you're applying to indeterminancy. If you mean that he's waffling then I disagree. But if you mean that he's rejecting the existence of an "absolute truth" in politics then I think that might be a fair reading.

[lovejuice]

I think there are certain highly celebrated political films that are far less interesting because they refuse to acknowledge any legitimacy of political conservatism and therefore espouse a pretty narrow viewpoint.

based on the movie alone, it's hard for me to read "conservatism" out of batman, the character. more "superheroism" which is a different can of worm altogether. perhaps a movie like watchmen does a better job investigating and connecting the two. the graphic novel sure does. (i haven't watched the movie.) i don't think batman in TDK stand for anything except the iconic image of a masked individual going about in the dark, above the law, punching people we don't like in the nad.

[Ivan Drago]

Most overrated film of the decade? Yep.

What, not enough teens finding themselves?

[Qrazy]

That depends on the definition you're applying to indeterminancy. If you mean that he's waffling then I disagree. But if you mean that he's rejecting the existence of an "absolute truth" in politics then I think that might be a fair reading.

I was just teasing you.


This strategy can be amped up into philosophical disquisition that usually sounds better in French but can occur in English too.

Jim: I just don’t see why people take W**dy *ll*n seriously. Cr*m*s *nd M*sd*m**n*rs is heavy-handed in its metaphors of blindness and sight.

Jules: What’s remarkable about W**dy is the way his metaphors hover between the banal and the extraordinary. They’re at once familiar and unfamiliar, both distant and near. They lie, we might say, in a zone of zigzag indeterminacy.

Okay, this plays better on the page than in conversation, but I have encountered it occasionally face to face. It’s a hard serve to return. Resorting to I just don’t know what that means usually makes you look dumb, whereas Do you buy effluvia like that in ten-gallon drums? would be considered hostile.

http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/?p=2662

For the record I agree with your initial comments.

[Ezee E]

What, not enough teens finding themselves?
Look at Ivan getting in a zing.

[DavidSeven]

based on the movie alone, it's hard for me to read "conservatism" out of batman, the character. more "superheroism" which is a different can of worm altogether. perhaps a movie like watchmen does a better job investigating and connecting the two. the graphic novel sure does. (i haven't watched the movie.) i don't think batman in TDK stand for anything except the iconic image of a masked individual going about in the dark, above the law, punching people we don't like in the nad.

Well, I think the film is pretty blatantly political even if it never intended to be. I mean, his use of spy technology alone is enough to draw the easy parrallels. Practically speaking, I don't know how anyone could read the film as simply being about someone "going about in the dark and punching people" when there really isn't much of that going on. The entire film involves Batman making ethical judgments that frequently lean conservative: his disregard for general privacy, his dismissal of foreign jurisdiction, his interrogation tactics, etc. that he justifies by striving for the greater good.

I think Watchmen (the novel) is brilliantly complex in expressing its politics, but it's most assuredly a pro-leftwing piece. But its greatness lies in how it gets you to that end. I think TDK has different goals, is less partisan, and raises different questions, but it's no less political. The only sense in which Watchmen is more political (and maybe why people can interpret it so easily) is that real life politicians are characters in the book. On that same note, you have to recognize that there's a reason why Harvey Dent is presented as a politician and not strictly as the prosecuting attorney that we've seen in the comics and various TV series. Nolan is actually deviating pretty far from our conception of the "iconic caped crusader" and the characers as they exist in the older comics and past representations in other mediums.

[Rowland]

until the gradual downhill slide that started with the introduction of Two-Face.Basically. Everything from that point on is pretty lame and contrived.

[Ivan Drago]

Look at Ivan getting in a zing.

A zing? :|

I've read the expression used here a lot, I just...don't know what it means.

[Spinal]

A zing? :|

I've read the expression used here a lot, I just...don't know what it means.

Short for zinger.

[Melville]

Short for zinger.
Really? I thought "zinger" was derived from "zing"; i.e. a zinger is something that zings ("criticizes in a pointed or witty manner").

[Spinal]

Really? I thought "zinger" was derived from "zing"; i.e. a zinger is something that zings ("criticizes in a pointed or witty manner").

Is this a really important conversation for us to have? Because I think I'm going to go mow the lawn.

Zing!

[Melville]

Is this a really important conversation for us to have? Because I think I'm going to go mow the lawn.

Zing!
:) A good example does wonders to clarify a definition.

[Qrazy]

:) A good example does wonders to clarify a definition.

http://ronvillano.com/images/zing_front4webcolor_7rra.jpg

Maple leaves.

[Spinal]

Really? I thought "zinger" was derived from "zing"; i.e. a zinger is something that zings ("criticizes in a pointed or witty manner").

Now that the lawn is mowed, I think it's a case where there was a verb ('zing') and it was turned into a noun ('zinger') and then that became an abbreviated slang term which was also a noun ('zing').

I am asserting this without doing any research whatsoever.

[Melville]

Now that the lawn is mowed, I think it's a case where there was a verb ('zing') and it was turned into a noun ('zinger') and then that became an abbreviated slang term which was also a noun ('zing').
Is it being used as a noun though? I thought it was an interjection.

EDIT: According to somebody named "The Grimace", who is presumably an expert on the subject, "zing" can be used as a noun, with the same meaning as "zinger", or as an interjection: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zing

Hopefully Ivan's question is being gradually answered somewhere in this conversation.

[Sycophant]

http://www.whatnotstudios.com/shit/vanillazingers.jpg

[Spinal]

Look at Ivan getting in a zing.

In the sentence above, it's definitely being used as a noun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2iLAI0gUW0) and not a verb (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4GomSmWZs4), although as you point out, Melville, it can also be an interjection (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhHpJ45_zwM). There ought to be a law (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ) against such grammatical confusion.

[Qrazy]

I'm inclined to Zing both of you in the nuts if this keeps up.

[Melville]

In the sentence above, it's definitely being used as a noun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2iLAI0gUW0) and not a verb (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4GomSmWZs4)
Hah. Evidently I need to actually read the post in question before embarking on a pointless discussion of it. For some reason I automatically imagined a post saying "Zing!" when I read your initial response to Ivan.

Speaking of Schoolhouse Rock, who agrees that this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJZLjR4t5B8) is its moment of triumph? American colonization of the moon ftw!