View Full Version : Match Cut's Movies to See Before You Die (or Get a Girlfriend)
B-side
04-23-2009, 08:52 AM
No I'm pretty sure it is Empire. It is the 5th episode, as are all those titles.
Charity Drive - Arrested Development
Bart the General - The Simpsons
The Stock Tip - Seinfeld
Basketball - ??? (Not sure, but it doesn't really matter.)
Wow. These clues are insane.
soitgoes...
04-23-2009, 08:59 AM
Some research has told me that "Basketball" was the 5th episode of The Office.
Cool clue trans!
My disposition is such that I usually don't love a film on the first viewing. (Or a book the first time I read it, or a song the first time I hear it.) I may admire it, and I may have an enjoyable time, but usually I have to "know" something very well before I fall in love with it. I need repetition and introspection and time and distance before I love it.
With the last two films (Aguirre and F for Fake), this was not the case. I was heart-breakingly, ridiculously, wrenchingly in love from the first moment.
D_Davis
04-23-2009, 03:12 PM
Eternal Sunshine is at 25? That's fairly absurd.
You can say that again. Probably the most ridiculous placing thus far. I simply cannot fathom the love for that movie.
Raiders
04-23-2009, 04:01 PM
My love for Gondry's film grows every time I watch it. Awesome to see it place in the top 100, though I wouldn't have imagined it to place, or personally placed it, so high.
My love for Gondry's film grows
Eww..
:P
lovejuice
04-23-2009, 07:00 PM
18 is The Empire Strikes Back
Correct.
just to keep the bitching atmosphere rolls on, i find this more ridiculous than Eternal Sunshine's placing.
Ezee E
04-23-2009, 07:21 PM
just to keep the bitching atmosphere rolls on, i find this more ridiculous than Eternal Sunshine's placing.
You make no sense.
Sycophant
04-23-2009, 07:43 PM
I strongly suspect history will be on my side when it comes to ESotSM.
My side, of course, is that it's pretty damned great.
I strongly suspect history will be on my side when it comes to ESotSM.
My side, of course, is that it's pretty damned great.
It's a hipster film, and we all know how hipsters will be remembered in history.
Sycophant
04-23-2009, 08:16 PM
It's a hipster film, and we all know how hipsters will be remembered in history.
Celebrated as the wise elves who have passed from this Earth onto a better and more enlightened world, leaving behind only hints to their excellent taste in art and entertainment.
Watashi
04-23-2009, 09:25 PM
just to keep the bitching atmosphere rolls on, i find this more ridiculous than Eternal Sunshine's placing.
Yeah, it should have been higher.
Spaceman Spiff
04-23-2009, 09:35 PM
just to keep the bitching atmosphere rolls on, i find this more ridiculous than Eternal Sunshine's placing.
As do I. Although to be fair, I never really got into Star Wars. Maybe I'd love it more if it had soiled my brain way back in the salad days. The salad days of yore.
Mysterious Dude
04-24-2009, 12:18 AM
I didn't include Eternal Sunshine on my list, but I think, as far as recent films go, it is one of the most deserving of a spot on the top 30. Better than Kill Bill, anyway.
Spinal
04-24-2009, 12:22 AM
Eternal Sunshine doesn't even make my top 25 of 2004. I have it at #29, right ahead of The Spongebob Squarepants Movie.
Raiders
04-24-2009, 12:43 AM
Eternal Sunshine doesn't even make my top 25 of 2004. I have it at #29, right ahead of The Spongebob Squarepants Movie.
Well then, it's good to see your wrongness is not contagious.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 02:03 AM
18.
http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/empire-strikes-back.jpg
"You have your moments. Not many of them, but you do have them."
The Empire Strikes Back (Irvin Kershner, 1980)
List mentions: 10
Average ranking: 31.4
Highest ranking: 1 (eWeeping Guitar)
AFI ranking (2007): -
IMDB Ranking: 10 (8.8/10)
For this entry, I'm going to repost a story I told in my mammoth Star Wars thread at RT. It's a story that pretty much explains why The Empire Strikes Back means so much to me and how I'm not ashamed to label it one of the best films ever made both technically and emotionally. It's a story about my father who grew up in Hollywood. He was lucky enough to catch all the big blockbusters in their premieres at the Grauman's Chinese Theatre witnessing all the stars walking the red carpet. He saw Jaws, Superman, and and the first two Star Wars films opening day, and had to wait to wait in a line nearly a mile long just to get tickets. He still to this day says there won't be a greater experience in his life than at the premiere of The Empire Strikes Back in 1980 (You know you're a huge Star Wars nerd when you place it above marriage and having a son in all-time greatest life moments list).
It was the first showing ever, and my dad was one of the lucky ones who got in to see George Lucas's magic performed before his virgin eyes. He told me after seeing A New Hope, no one really expected a sequel, because until then sequels were never really established like they are now. The marketing for Empire was great, giving almost nothing away. There was no hype over a big fight between Vader and Luke at the end nor were there hints of Han being carbonated. Every single scene of that film took everyone by surprise, including the great-grandmother of all movie twists.
My father told me he will never forget the moment when Vader looked up at Luke and told him, "No, I am your father". He said the entire theater let out a huge gasp all at once and then it was completely dead silent. You could hear a pin drop in the entire theater. Everyone was stunned. Too stunned to talk, move, or even blink. No one was expecting it. No one.
Looking back at my father's tale, he probably exaggerated some parts for drama, but I believe we will not a have film that will take an audience by surprise like The Empire Strikes Back did in 1980. Before DVDs and piracy, movies were made to been seen in the theater. The experience and crowd reactions were a part of the film itself. Now in the days of the internet, DVDs, HDTV's, and preshow buzz, the shock factor is lost among today's audience. We will never see another Empire where everyone in theater goes silent. Never.
A review you expect,
but come it will not.
Seen much as a child this film
and too close to it or simply lazy I am.
Which one it is, you must decide.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 02:13 AM
17.
http://filmjournal.net/mjocallaghan/files/2007/08/gbu1.jpg
"Every gun makes its own tune."
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (Sergio Leone, 1966)
List mentions: 11
Average ranking: 45.5
Highest ranking: 5 (megladon8)
AFI ranking (2007): -
IMDB Ranking: 4 (9.0/10)
It's tough to watch any Western these days without an homage to either John Wayne or Sergio Leone. Even by mistake. There's just so much in the Leone movies that people reference it by mistake because it's in our brains now of what a Western is.
The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly is much more then that though. Sure, there's an overall plot to the movie, but it almost seems episodic, with legendary scene after legendary scene. Whether it be getting to the other side of a river while a massive battle goes on, or the revelation of where the gold is at. It's clever, funny, and keeps the movie interesting for its three-hour length.
I ADORE the GBU, I always saw it as an opera... and a comedy... and a tragedy. Mostly comedy, and mostly opera. It's glorious.
Recently, I happened to come across an essay by Umberto Eco ("Intertextual Irony and Levels of Reading" is the title if memory serves) where he talks about the two levels of reading. A first level reader simply wants to know what happens in the story (i.e, does Blondie get the treasure). I don't think The Good, the Bad and the Ugly functions even on that level because, at nearly three hours, it is so drawn out with gratuitous set pieces, like civil war sequence which is only tangentally related to the main throughline--in other words, it's a big show stopper that exists for its own sake in isolation from everything else.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 02:28 AM
#16:
enduring from russia with punch drunk mad actually
http://smallbusiness.smh.com.au/dotAsset/912866096.jpg
#15:
If you like this film, IMDB recommends:
Looking for Palladin (2008)
Salaam Bombay! (1988)
A Walk to Remember (2002)
Yi yi (2000)
Thank You for Smoking (2005)
Click (2006/I)
A Map of the World (1999)
16 - Love Actually! I can't believe it made it!!!! OMG!!!!!
Sycophant
04-24-2009, 02:31 AM
16 - Love Actually! I can't believe it made it!!!! OMG!!!!!
I'm hungry and therefore a little extra gullible. Almost had a heart attack there.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 02:32 AM
16 - Love Actually! I can't believe it made it!!!! OMG!!!!!
I would have abandoned the list if that abomination had made it anywhere, let alone #16.
Sycophant
04-24-2009, 02:32 AM
I would have abandoned the list if that abomination had made it anywhere, let alone #16.
You're a good man, trans.
Kurosawa Fan
04-24-2009, 02:36 AM
Is #16 In the Mood for Love?
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 02:39 AM
Is #16 In the Mood for Love?
Yep.
Kurosawa Fan
04-24-2009, 02:43 AM
#15 is The Night of the Hunter?
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 02:44 AM
#15 is The Night of the Hunter?
Been and gone.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 02:45 AM
By the way, I don't know how accurate IMDB recommendatons are for the film in question at #15 cos I haven't seen it.
Kurosawa Fan
04-24-2009, 02:47 AM
Been and gone.
It's a Wonderful Life?
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 02:51 AM
If it helps, I hear the new Office spin-off has a link to #15 as well.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 02:51 AM
It's a Wonderful Life?
Ditto.
Kurosawa Fan
04-24-2009, 02:54 AM
Ditto.
Damn. I suck at this.
Kurosawa Fan
04-24-2009, 02:54 AM
Last guess: Gone With the Wind.
Winston*
04-24-2009, 02:57 AM
Ikiru
Me > Kurosawa Fan
Sycophant
04-24-2009, 02:59 AM
Trying to reverse engineer this on IMDb has been a pain in the ass and has been to no avail.
Sycophant
04-24-2009, 03:00 AM
If it helps, I hear the new Office spin-off has a link to #15 as well.
Okay, now that we know it's Ikiru, you need to explain this.
Mysterious Dude
04-24-2009, 03:03 AM
Last guess: Gone With the Wind.
http://match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=144469&postcount=60
Kurosawa Fan
04-24-2009, 03:04 AM
http://match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=144469&postcount=60
*sigh*
Thanks for making me feel worse.
Kurosawa Fan
04-24-2009, 03:06 AM
Okay, now that we know it's Ikiru, you need to explain this.
Parks. Poehler's character is trying to create a new park in the show, despite bureaucratic red tape.
Winston*
04-24-2009, 03:06 AM
Trying to reverse engineer this on IMDb has been a pain in the ass and has been to no avail.
When in doubt, google.
Sycophant
04-24-2009, 03:07 AM
*sigh*
Thanks for making me feel worse.
I don't care if you can't penetrate the logic of the IMDb recommendation system or can't remember one little post from several weeks ago.
You'll always be Kickassosawa fan to me!
Sycophant
04-24-2009, 03:08 AM
When in doubt, google.
Curious about what search query you use, because I couldn't get it to return recommendation results from imdb.com.
Kurosawa Fan
04-24-2009, 03:09 AM
I don't care if you can't penetrate the logic of the IMDb recommendation system or can't remember one little post from several weeks ago.
You'll always be Kickassosawa fan to me!
I love you too big guy.
Winston*
04-24-2009, 03:12 AM
Curious about what search query you use, because I couldn't get it to return recommendation results from imdb.com.
"Looking for Palladin Salaam Bombay recommendations"
Sycophant
04-24-2009, 03:15 AM
Well, fancy that!
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 07:42 AM
So anyway, I haven't seen Ikiru, so are those IMDB recommendations any good?
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 07:44 AM
Parks. Poehler's character is trying to create a new park in the show, despite bureaucratic red tape.
Quite a few reviews have mentioned the connection, Having seen neither, I don't know how strong it is.
Could have been worse - originally I was just going to post a photo of Amy Poehler as a clue. :)
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 08:08 AM
16.
http://www.exquisitefunction.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/in_the_mood_for_love.jpg
"Feelings can creep up just like that. I thought I was in control."
In the Mood for Love (Wong Kar-Wai, 2000)
List mentions: 11
Average ranking: 42.7
Highest ranking: 6 (Kurosawa Fan)
AFI ranking (2007): -
IMDB Ranking: - (8.1/10)
I've liked, not loved, In the Mood for Love and 2046.
In the Mood for Love > Lost in Translation > Marie Antoinette > 2046 > Chungking Express > Happy Together > Days of Being Wild > Fallen Angels
I adore In the Mood For Love - it's another I've seen countless times.
I always love it when Spinal whips it out. Great times.
[technically nothing to do with ITMFL, but worth quoting nonetheless]
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 08:19 AM
15.
http://twitchfilm.net/site/images/mastheads/ikiru.jpg
"I can't afford to hate people. I don't have that kind of time."
Ikiru (Akira Kurosawa, 1952)
List mentions: 11
Average ranking: 41.2
Highest ranking: 10 (Kurosawa Fan)
AFI ranking (2007): -
IMDB Ranking: - (8.1/10)
My wife & I watched Ikiru last night. Can't recall enjoying a Kurosawa film more than I've enjoyed this one, and my respect for Takashi Shimura has gone to a whole new level. Simply an amazing film.
Sat my dad down to watch Throne of Blood. I love the film, but this viewing reminded me that Kurosawa occasionally bludgeons a point, here when the two men are riding back and forth in the fog in the beginning about twenty times; and in Seven Samurai when drunk Mifune is hilariously staggering about while the men laugh at him, again almost ad nauseum; and in Ikiru.....almost everything. Whoops. Said that outloud. Love the wake!
The wake put me to sleep.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 11:54 AM
#14:
http://www.mentalhelp.net/images/root/childcare.jpg
#13:
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/uimages/dc/12-5%20obama.jpg
Is #13 Casablanca?
If so, that's clever, because it works on 2 different levels.
The Mike
04-24-2009, 01:15 PM
13 must star Will Smith..... :confused:
Any chance 14 would be Toy Story?
Kurosawa Fan
04-24-2009, 02:45 PM
#14 - The Toy
#13 - My Fellow Americans
That should restore my reputation.
Raiders
04-24-2009, 02:51 PM
#14 is Godzilla, obviously.
#14 - The Toy
#13 - My Fellow Americans
That should restore my reputation.
Better yet:
#14. Toys ('92, Robin Williams)
#13. The Distinguished Gentleman ('92-- what a great year! Eddie Murphy)
#14 is Godzilla, obviously.
I actually had a whole thing about it being Matilda (which is actually a really fun film) because of Watzing Matilda, and the whole billabong thing.
Then I realized that was madness.
D_Davis
04-24-2009, 03:50 PM
#14 - Playtime
#15 - Fresh Prince of Bel-Air Made for Television Movie
#14 - Playtime
Was just coming in here to post that.
Sycophant
04-24-2009, 03:55 PM
#13 - Casper
D_Davis
04-24-2009, 03:56 PM
#13 - Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
Sycophant
04-24-2009, 03:57 PM
#13 - Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
Fezzik
04-24-2009, 03:58 PM
#14 - Little Big Man
#13 - Undercover Brother
:)
D_Davis
04-24-2009, 04:08 PM
Yeah - I meant 13 NOT 15.
D'oh!
Sycophant
04-24-2009, 04:10 PM
Because you messed up, though, if you're right, I get the point.
D_Davis
04-24-2009, 04:17 PM
Because you messed up, though, if you're right, I get the point.
That sounds fair.
Sycophant
04-24-2009, 04:17 PM
That sounds fair.
It's like Jeopardy!, son. You forgot to ask in the form of a question.
Ezee E
04-24-2009, 04:24 PM
#14 - Kids
#13 - The upcoming Barack Obama documentary and or biopic.
Fezzik
04-24-2009, 04:26 PM
That sounds fair.
I vote Daniel Davis gets partial credit for placing the idea out there.
D_Davis
04-24-2009, 04:39 PM
I vote Daniel Davis gets partial credit for placing the idea out there.
You mean, like, for getting the answer right?
Fezzik
04-24-2009, 04:40 PM
Exactly!
You mean, like, for getting the answer right?
Except that you're wrong, because it's Casablanca.
Fezzik
04-24-2009, 04:48 PM
Well, Sycophant did specify "if" :)
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 09:12 PM
14.
http://infranetlab.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/08_04_18_cubicle_playtime.jpg
"Who needs a quote (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7NaoN8Sx-Y)?"
Playtime (Jacques Tati, 1967)
List mentions: 11
Average ranking: 29
Highest ranking: 2 (Russ)
AFI ranking (2007): -
IMDB Ranking: - (7.9/10)
Modern urbanity can be an awful landscape of sharp glass and meek souls. Jacques Tati’s Play Time is a great film because it is about conquering that landscape through gentleness and creativity. In the first half of the film Tati captures the absurd rigidity of contemporary Paris in brilliantly composed, non-intrusive long shots. Our lovable clown of a protagonist, M. Hulot (played by Tati), spends his time stumbling and bumping through labyrinthine hallways and impossibly confusing transparent structures, constantly maintaining his look of mild befuddlement. Hulot eventually floats his way to a snazzy new restaurant that will be the setting for most of the film’s second half. This is a truly remarkable sequence sustained by humour, compassion, and Tati’s mise-en-scene. The restaurant’s veneer gradually washes away along with social formalities. Unhindered, Tati’s characters reveal how willing they are to connect with one another. The whole scene is a lovely display of irony free idealism. It is an idealism that can only exist in art, and even then it is touched by the quiet sadness of transience.
Playtime is an amazing accomplishment. I can't imagine how complex the choreography for that film must have been. Great choice.
MY MONKEY SLICES YOUR MONKEY TO DEATH.
But anyway, I agree that Playtime, whilst one of the greatest films ever, is not particularly funny. It makes me smile and feel warm all over, and blows my mind, but it does not make me laugh. In fact, outside of a few scenes in Mon Oncle (the dog sweater big, esp.), I can't remember laughing at a Tati film, even though he's one of my favorite directors. Hmm.
I laughed quite a few times during Playtime. The scene where we look at two apartments through their huge windows had me laughing at its sheer ingenuity, and the whole scene in the restaurant at the end had me pretty consistently laughing at its (and the characters') footloose-and-fancy-free breakdown of the rigidity of the preceding scenes.
Epic, playful.
In one of my classes, we were watching Tati's Playtime, and in the middle of it, there was a fire alarm. As we were leaving, I heard someone say, "Saved by the bell! This is horrible cinema!" Philistine.
I somehow missed hearing of that film, ever.
I'm surprised about that.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 09:25 PM
13.
http://www.gonemovies.com/www/Drama/Drama/CasablancaKus.jpg
"Oh, he's just like any other man, only more so (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iYbEPZVVIA)."
Casablanca (Michael Curtiz, 1942)
List mentions: 11
Average ranking: 24.7
Highest ranking: 2 (Fezzik)
AFI ranking (2007): 3
IMDB Ranking: 11 (8.8/10)
Description: In response to German Major Strasser's commandeering of Sam's piano so that good strong "German" music could be played at Rick's bar, Victor Laszlo uses the house band to stage a defiant counterpoint - the French National anthem - that eventually has most of the bar singing along.
Corny? Yeah, probably, but even today the scene works. The emotions resonate.
The reason it's not on the list: It broke one of the rules (Characters singing) :)
I'd love to see some clever director digitally add zombies to classic films like Casablanca and Gone With the Wind.
One of my professors had a Casablanca tie on today. I forgot to tell him how freakin' cool it was.
Honestly, I didn't expect much from Casablanca or Citizen Kane. I thought they would both be examples of classics that are overpraised.
But no, they're both wonderful movies.
Casablanca has an obvious war-time message, but that doesn't account for its enduring popularity sixty-five years later.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 09:47 PM
#12:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_eg2I5vDRaWM/SbPatREcolI/AAAAAAAAB-U/ru9MWEYwANw/s400/Milla+Jovovich+5.png
#11:
Sundays and Cybele
Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow
dreamdead
04-24-2009, 09:47 PM
Playtime is my most egregious example of a film that I respect in terms of everything that it strives to say and achieve, yet I've given it two shakes and have always been bored by it, though I have finished it.
I should likely still give Mon Oncle a shot, though, since I've seen the other two Hulot films.
dreamdead
04-24-2009, 09:49 PM
Is #11 2001?
soitgoes...
04-24-2009, 09:58 PM
12 is Bratz? Right?
soitgoes...
04-24-2009, 10:06 PM
12 is Passion of Joan of Arc tho fo realz
soitgoes...
04-24-2009, 10:11 PM
I'm guessing 11 is City Lights.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 10:26 PM
12 is Passion of Joan of Arc tho fo realz
You're good at this.
megladon8
04-24-2009, 10:28 PM
Casablanca is freaking wonderful.
I'm glad it made the list. It's timeless.
Watashi
04-24-2009, 10:28 PM
Has 8 1/2 been listed yet?
soitgoes...
04-24-2009, 10:29 PM
You're good at this.
Milla Jovovich plus the knowledge that Passion of Joan of Arc was in the Top 20 (thank you Kurosawa Fan), made it fairly easy. It was bound to show up eventually. :)
Watashi
04-24-2009, 10:34 PM
1. 2001
2. Vertigo
3. Mulholland Dr.
4. Pulp Fiction
5. Apocalypse Now
6. City Lights
7. Taxi Driver
8. Citizen Kane
9. Annie Hall
10. Psycho
Sycophant
04-24-2009, 10:37 PM
I somehow missed hearing of that film, ever.
I'm surprised about that.
I am, too. It seems it comes up pretty often 'round here.
soitgoes...
04-24-2009, 10:37 PM
1. 2001
2. Vertigo
3. Mulholland Dr.
4. Pulp Fiction
5. Apocalypse Now
6. City Lights
7. Taxi Driver
8. Citizen Kane
9. Annie Hall
10. Psycho
Annie Hall has happened.
B-side
04-24-2009, 10:47 PM
Modern urbanity can be an awful landscape of sharp glass and meek souls. Jacques Tati’s Play Time is a great film because it is about conquering that landscape through gentleness and creativity. In the first half of the film Tati captures the absurd rigidity of contemporary Paris in brilliantly composed, non-intrusive long shots. Our lovable clown of a protagonist, M. Hulot (played by Tati), spends his time stumbling and bumping through labyrinthine hallways and impossibly confusing transparent structures, constantly maintaining his look of mild befuddlement. Hulot eventually floats his way to a snazzy new restaurant that will be the setting for most of the film’s second half. This is a truly remarkable sequence sustained by humour, compassion, and Tati’s mise-en-scene. The restaurant’s veneer gradually washes away along with social formalities. Unhindered, Tati’s characters reveal how willing they are to connect with one another. The whole scene is a lovely display of irony free idealism. It is an idealism that can only exist in art, and even then it is touched by the quiet sadness of transience.
Anyone else ever read a bit of writing on a film that just gives you a certain perspective on it and you're absolutely thrilled about it? Well, this bit of superb writing has done so for Playtime and I. I liked it the first time around already, but this little write-up here... I don't know. I will rewatch this film very soon.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 10:59 PM
12.
http://www.bombsite.com/images/attachments/0002/3546/Einhorn02_body.jpg
"Has God promised you things?"
La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc (Carl Theodor Dreyer, 1928)
List mentions: 11
Average ranking: 22.3
Highest ranking: 2 (Kurious Jorge)
AFI ranking (2007): -
IMDB Ranking: - (8.1/10)
As amazing as this film is, the back story behind its restoration is so bizarre and extraordinary that it enriches the viewing process to a higher level. To think, if it wasn't for some random janitor at a Norwegian mental hospital, this film would have been lost forever. That is some Twilight Zone shit right there. Yet that isn't even the most surreal part of it. The print found in the hospital was never the genuine film, but footage that Carl Dreyer reedited from rejected material after the original film was perished in a warehouse fire. So no one other than Dreyer has seen the original and true version. Is this giving you chills or what? This gives me an opportunity to thank the people that put hours of hard work in restoring films from an unavailable print to a finished product that looked brand-new. Just watch the restoration documentary on the Snow White DVD. It showcases a grueling process of reanimating over everything to give the animation a crisp and vibrant color.
The Passion of Joan of Arc is all about two people: Maria Falconetti and Richard Einhorn. Yeah, Carl Theodor Dreyer is the main maestro behind the film. His brutal recreation of Joan's trials from the official transcripts recorded features a claustrophobic use of space and sparse detail that is comes across as a documentation of Joan's passion rather than a filmed narrative.
The trials are seen reflected off Maria Falconetti's pale makeup-less face as she stares endlessly into the camera with (real) tears running down her face. Calling it the greatest performance ever is an understatement. It's a testimony to pure acting torture as Maria strips down to a raw, naked portrayal of Joan witnessing the end of her days counting slowly down. She controls every frame with just her face. Her gentle smirks and fearless eyes transcends the performance into a intense stare-down between the audience and Joan.
Even though Dreyer's intentions were to experience the film without a proper score, it's hard to make the switch back to silence after hearing Richard Einhorn's harmonic opus "Voices of Light" attached. It's hard to believe that the score is less than 15 years old because I can't imagine the film without it. The libretto is an experience within itself that took inspiration from excerpts of ancient writings, most of it from Medieval female mystics. The crescendo in the track "Torture" is one of the most emotionally devastating pieces in the film that works wonders with the editing of Falconetti and the torture device.
If any film evokes Norma Desmond's proclamation regarding silent actors, "We didn't need dialogue. We had faces!", it's the Passion of Joan of Arc. Most of the film is held in a close-up of Maria Falconetti's face as she delivers one of the most scintillating performances of all time. Unlike the traditional Hollywood close-up, Falconetti is not looking beyond the screen into the face of a lover, or even reacting to the events that surround her. With her eyes she searches above, looking for a voice that is now silent. While her outward expression of faith is unwavering, the sadness and the desperation in the face suggest that sense of doubt, and a great deal of fear. She is afterall human, and really it's easy to forget that Jeanne was little more than a child, and was burned when she was just nineteen years old.
The performance, as well as the use of the close-up draw the audience in, and the experience is jarring and surprisingly effecting. I have yet to see the Voices of Light accompaniment, but I don't think there ever was a film as suited for silence as this. Falconetti's face speaks so many volumes that almost nothing else is needed. While it's almost a shame that Falconetti didn't really make any other films, it does create that certain sense of singularity and modesty that lends itself to this role. Seeing Heston or another star play a saint, or a prophet loses at least some of it's power because you recognize them as the actor before the character, this is not an issue with this film. By the time you are invested in the film, you feel such a connection with Jeanne D'arc, there are moments you can almost reach out an touch her. I had a natural inclination to comfort and protect her. Her devotion to her God is beyond my understanding, but I feel that it is worth respecting because the film makes it clear to me that this is not easy, and she truly believes this is right. I find blind faith far more difficult to grasp, and while there is some of that here, she is still so completely human; so delicate, so fearful and so emotional, and still quite thoughtful that I don't have any trouble at all connecting with her. Very few films drew as strong an emotional reaction out of me as this, I was shaken for a few days afterward.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 11:13 PM
11.
http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/34/77234-004-030A65F7.jpg
"Happiness consists of being able to tell the truth without hurting anyone."
8½ (Federico Fellini, 1963)
List mentions: 11
Average ranking: 20.7
Highest ranking: 1 (eternity)
AFI ranking (2007): -
IMDB Ranking: 151 (8.2/10)
I read recently that Fellini taped a sign reading "Remember, this is a comedy," to his camera while filming 8 1/2. I think it's a very funny film.
After just re-watching 8 1/2, I still think the similarities are being greatly exaggerated. I don't think the tone is very similar: in 8 1/2 it's worldly and contemplative, it looks down at life with an almost Altman-esque bemusement, and it's generally amoral; in Stardust Memories it's almost naive, extremely sympathetic, and focused on ethics. Also, 8 1/2 has a rather melancholy mood for the majority of its runtime, and its pace is generally languorous, while Stardust Memories maintains an ethereal and consistently comedic mood and a jaunty pace. The protagonists are essentially exact opposites of one another, especially in their interactions with women: Guido is virtually uninterested in women, except in a purely sensual way, while Sandy desperately craves romantic connection. Even the themes are different: 8 1/2 deals with life in general and what forms a person, while Stardust Memories deals primarily with romance and deciding what to do in life. And the rapid fire exchanges with reporters are not a motif in 8 1/2.
Of course, Stardust Memories does borrow quite liberally from 8 1/2, what with the pans past faces rapidly talking at the protagonist, the filmmaker protagonists making movies that misunderstand life, and those movies eventually merging with the movie we're watching (which presumably does not misunderstand life). But I think Allen does a lot more than just put a slight spin on that structure.
The ending of 8 1/2 pretty well makes its thrust explicit: "Everything is true" and "This confusion is me". All the moments and all the people in life make life what it is; nothing can be rejected without rejecting life and oneself, and once that realization sets in, everything is embraced as a part of the whole. That's almost the opposite of Allen's conclusion, which is that there are perfect, reflective moments that justify all the shit around them. Sure, they both conclude that we should embrace life, but the underlying reasons are quite different.
None of the moments in the film possess anything like a transcendent beauty or sudden, reflective stillness; none of them are pointed out as special; the whole point is that they are all equally justified.
I also don't think the tone of 8 1/2 is generally comedic, though it certainly has moments of exuberance or comedy.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 11:22 PM
10.
http://www.goodisthenewbad.com/images/orig/PulpFiction.orig.jpg
"That's a pretty fucking good milkshake. I don't know if it's worth five dollars but it's pretty fucking good."
Pulp Fiction (Quentin Tarantino, 1994)
List mentions: 12
Average ranking: 50.8
Highest ranking: 7 (Daniel Davis)
AFI ranking (2007): 94
IMDB Ranking: 5 (8.9/10)
Many of the films in my top 10 are here because they made me look at cinema differently, in addition to simply being great films that I admire. They represent landmark steps in my own cinematic journey. Moments and films that allowed me to see more fully the artistic merits of the art form. Pulp Fiction is such a film. This may be the first film that made me really pay attention to directing and writing. I will not claim that it is the best directed or written film I've seen, not even close, however, Tarantino's film made me pay closer attention to these kinds of details. It changed the way I watched movies.
When I think of Pulp Fiction, I often focus on the dialog. It is after all one of the most quotable films of modern times, and it has been copied and parodied far too often. It is easy to think of Tarantino as just a writer of witty dialog filled with cursing and hip quips. And this is partially true - he does write in such a way. However, he does so to strengthen the archetypes of his characters and to more fully flesh out his universe. I know that, to some, his writing seems superfluous and trite, but I get a charge out of the rhythm and cadence of his dialog. When I hear Jules and Vincent talking during the opening moments of Pulp Fiction, I feel as though I am witnessing something pretty dang incredible.
I do feel, though, that some people focus to intensely on his writing, and forget the fact that he is also a good director with a fantastic eye for shot selection and stage direction. Sometimes even I forget, and I wrongly imagine Pulp Fiction as a static film full of talking heads - and it is not. Tarantino does a wonderful job of directing the shots, and he sets things up with the visual panache of a more mature filmmaker. I am always surprised at just how mature the film looks. This was only his second film, but it possesses the visual allure of a film from a much older and more experienced filmmaker. The Jack Rabbit Slims sequence is expertly shot, and through subtle use of steadycam and traditional shot selection, Tarantino builds a world that feels real and tangible.
Notice that I haven't used the word “original” once in this short write up. I think this is a word often nefariously thrust upon the director, and so his detractors often point out the various other films he has riffed on, paid homage to, or flat out stolen from. I don't think this is a problem. Tarantino is from one of the first generations who grew up with the ability to watch films at any time, thanks to cable television and the VCR. He also grew up during the genesis of hip hop and deejay culture. Like a deejay who studied music and the nuance of mixology, Tarantino studied film and the mythological power of certain symbols and archetypes. To me, he is like a multimedia deejay who mixes, cuts, scratches, samples, and loops all of the things he has studied into something that is uniquely his. Pulp Fiction is built from a variety of sources, but each one has been filtered through the director's head and used to tell a signature story.
Pulp Fiction made me aware of new things to look for while watching films. It made me appreciate the art of filmmaking more. It is also just a damn good, well made, and entertaining film. It's funny as hell (The Bonnie Situation), populated with interesting characters (Marcellus Wallace, Vincent, and Jules), features some absurd and memorable moments (The Gimp, and the hypodermic needle), and is simply a blast to listen to and see. I think this film has it all. It is an example of the artistic merits of the medium while it is also highly entertaining.
Pulp Fiction remains the only Tarantino film that I like, partly because Tarantino's signature dialogue seems more zippy and less drawn out than in his later films. I definitely agree that the shot composition, editing, and music are what make the film work, rather than just the dialogue that people focus on.
[My first cinematic obsession] was actually Pulp Fiction. I can remember when it ended feeling like I had never seen anything like it. At the time, I was a freshman in high school and really hadn't seen anything with more substance than a Steven Segal movie. It made me want to explore different films than my mom and dad were watching.
Kurosawa Fan
04-24-2009, 11:24 PM
:lol:
Great. I land one positive comment in all of these reviews, and it's for a fucking Tarantino film. Serves me right for not writing about movies anymore.
Spinal
04-24-2009, 11:27 PM
:lol:
Great. I land one positive comment in all of these reviews, and it's for a fucking Tarantino film. Serves me right for not writing about movies anymore.
You might as well switch to an Alex DeLarge avatar and get it over with.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 11:33 PM
9.
http://www.chicagomag.com/images/2008/March%202008/arena_lebowski.jpg
"I could be just sitting at home with pee stains on my rug."
The Big Lebowski (Joel Coen, 1998)
List mentions: 12
Average ranking: 48.3
Highest ranking: 14 (Daniel Davis)
AFI ranking (2007): -
IMDB Ranking: 152 (8.2/10)
The Coens lack a soul? Man, no character in any film is as full o' soul as Sam Elliott in The Big Lebowski.
The Big Lebowski (http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=37142&postcount=179) is simply a film that I can turn to at almost any time, in bits and pieces, or as a whole, and enjoy myself in the process. It is well written, well shot, and well acted. It is funny, endlessly quotable (much to the chagrin of many I'm sure), and entertaining. It also has a fantastic soundtrack that perfectly captures the personality of the film's main character - it's his mix tap, the soundtrack to the Dude's life. The Coens totally nailed it with this film, and I think it is perfect in every way.
What a great film to come back on! It is a little strange how iconic this film has become, because there are few films that I've been able to watch with so many of my friends so many times as this one. It's the Coens at the top of their game. The dialogue in this movie is just a dream to listen to, with its repeated motifs (the way the Dude adopts everything everyone else says is great).
And seriously, who the fuck are the Knutzens?
I wasn't crazy about it when I first saw it either. Seemed like a trifle in comparison to Fargo. I've come to appreciate it more since then, but I admit that I'm still a bit bewildered by its lofty cult status.
I watched the Big Lebowski tonight with my sister, it was enjoyable but failed to really hit a home run. The dream sequences and the cast are especially good, but there is just something I can't really define that's missing o make it truly greatness.
Spinal
04-24-2009, 11:34 PM
Oh dear.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 11:34 PM
Yeah, can't say I agree with your ranking work there, Match Cut.
B-side
04-24-2009, 11:36 PM
This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps.
Kurosawa Fan
04-24-2009, 11:37 PM
Well I agree. Maybe a bit too high, but I'm not complaining.
Kurosawa Fan
04-24-2009, 11:40 PM
You might as well switch to an Alex DeLarge avatar and get it over with.
I'm afraid to say I'm not getting the joke. I hate it when this happens.
Spinal
04-24-2009, 11:44 PM
I'm afraid to say I'm not getting the joke. I hate it when this happens.
It's probably me. Would it have worked if I had said Tony Montana?
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 11:50 PM
8.
http://www.adoceric.com/images/digital/Travis-Bickle.jpg
"I used to have a pony, on Coney Island. It got hit by a truck."
Taxi Driver (Martin Scorsese, 1976)
List mentions: 12
Average ranking: 45.6
Highest ranking: 3 (Russ)
AFI ranking (2007): 52
IMDB Ranking: 37 (8.6/10)
On Taxi Driver, Jonathan Rosenbaum writes “if [the film] continues to exert an enormous claim on our imagination, this is surely because we continue to live in its vengeful, puritanical fantasies-as well as with the dire consequences of those fantasies.” A worthy theory - and not wanting to sound reductive of it - but I think the film’s popularity speaks more to the fascination inherent in films that throw their viewpoint out in the open for take-it-or-leave it consideration; challenging us into accepting them, before ultimately leaving us a little uncertain over whether the aim of their auteurs is to perpetuate their worldview, or simply articulate it because it exists and needs in-depth pinpointing. The latter is something that Scorsese achieves here masterfully, much like Mike Leigh did in Naked, another film where the auteur extends to the people in front of the camera as much as those behind it.
Besides, few films are as formally exhilarating. Taxi Driver announces itself as something special during its opening credits, in which the titular vehicle appears in slow-motion out of a cloud of steam on a grimy New York street, looking more like a model filmed in close-up rather than the real thing. A close-up of our titular anti-hero’s eyes, brow-furrowed intensely, looking out at the pedestrians and various low-lives on the streets outside, the images transforming into bleached-out, psychedelic washes of color and shapes. The influence of Kenneth Anger is shown in this sequence, and Anger’s ability to re-introduce us to the familiar with new eyes is incorporated by Scorsese into the film, who posits Bickle’s disconnect as something that leads to a view of humanity and the everyday world reduced to it’s essences; conversations are frequently, frenetically undercut by odd stylistic choices, and our attention is diverted away from what’s being said, and toward how Bickle absorbs the world around him. Thus, it makes sense that the few instances where a conversation is filmed in the standard shot/reverse-shot mode are a coffee shop date between him and Betsy (Cybill Shepherd), and a later scene between him and Iris (Jodie Foster), both rare instances where he is able to make a connection.
“It was to cinema what punk rock was to music”, says a particularly dunderheaded voter in the 2002 Sight & Sound poll (Danny Cannon, auteur of I Still Know What You Did Last Summer!). Sure, if you take the film’s context and Bickle’s mohawk at face value, aligning it with the music scenes in New York and London, and read Bickle’s vengeful fantasies as a necessary voice of opposition rather than the sad reflection of the times that Scorsese has painted. Even if the ambiguous, multi-purposed final scene is read as a continuation of the narrative, or merely an out-of-reach fantasy, Scorsese’s strength is that he makes the implications equally despairing in both cases.
Taxi Driver - This was a repeat viewing...the first two times I saw it I didn't care for it because the first 90 minutes were boring as hell - not so much the third time...but even so I still couldn't appreciate it fully.
transmogrifier
04-24-2009, 11:52 PM
Well, the first three films of the Top 10 would out-fanboy most fanboys, I would imagine :)
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 12:04 AM
7.
http://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cityl.jpg
"Can you see now?"
City Lights (Charlie Chaplin, 1931)
List mentions: 12
Average ranking: 30.5
Highest ranking: 6 (Fezzik)
AFI ranking (2007): 11
IMDB Ranking: 64 (8.5/10)
City Lights - Chaplinism at its pinnacle
The most magical experience I had was sort of a smaller theater viewing in a film class during college. First time I saw City Lights. First silent film I'd ever seen. I was giggling insanely the entire film, it totally charmed me and by the end my heart was aching. I just sat there stunned for nearly 5 minutes and cried my eyes out, not caring about these strangers around me who clearly weren't as moved as I was. I was in pieces. I walked back to my dorm in a daze and in recounting the viewing to friends the following few days I'd tear up just remembering what I felt.
[Anyone else? Anyone?]
DavidSeven
04-25-2009, 12:06 AM
Well, to be fair, the cumulative ranking for The Big Lebowski is higher than any individual ranking. Is that the first time that's happened?
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 12:15 AM
6.
http://www.doctormacro1.info/Images/Stewart,%20James/Annex/Annex%20-%20Stewart,%20James%20(Vertigo )_01.jpg
"You shouldn't keep souvenirs of a killing. You shouldn't have been that sentimental."
Vertigo (Alfred Hitchcock, 1958)
List mentions: 12
Average ranking: 28.8
Highest ranking: 2 (Watashi)
AFI ranking (2007): 9
IMDB Ranking: 40 (8.6/10)
Vertigo's dream sequence is one of the best things ever. The image that's most haunted me since my most recent viewing a few months ago is when Scotty and what's-his-slime are standing by the window in the courtroom, a callback to an earlier scene, but now Carlotta's wrapped around the other guy and gazing up at Scotty.
Vertigo has some of the finest filmmaking I've ever seen, but it's definitely a stupid picture in some senses. The dream-ish aspect of it defintiely isn't played up as much as L'Avventura or Mulholland Dr. This makes some of the outlandish plot elements pretty hard to swallow.
I find I love Vertigo more on repeat viewings as I come to see more and more how the opening half of the film is more or less one giant MacGuffin played not just on Scotty, but the audience as well. It really shouldn't make sense if used in context of Hitchcock's obvious intentions for the film.
I doubt a single person who initially went to see that film expected it to be more of a tragic romance and the entire opening hour plus of the film is an act of immersion by Hitchcock. It is hardly about sensible plot, and the more mysterious and elusive it becomes, the better it works for me. As the final act of the film makes explicit, the film is more about the unattainable image of a woman, in this case Hitchcock's own muse, the icy blond. The entire opening act is a series of cat and mouse games, Scotty following Madeleine, both literally and figuratively, deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole. She's more of a cypher than a character, so her own acts of disappearance and ambiguous behavior fit precisely into her role in both Scotty and Hitchcock's mind.
Vertigo remains the best movie I've ever seen. While those plot holes are obvious from any rational analysis of the story, I would never have thought of them while watching. It's a movie based on emotions and unrelentless passion, and what matters is Hitch's masterful audience manipulation and the emotional impact he subjects the viewers to. I bet he could've directed the same story from a more realistic standpoint, but he chose to make a balls-to-the-walls emotional (edging on surreal) experience.
It took a re-viewing of the film over summer to awaken me to the incredible power of Alfred Hitchcock’s Vertigo (http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=17407&postcount=140) (1958), but the viewing was revelatory. The multiplicity of themes and devastating situations showed me newfound appreciation for Hitchcock as an artist, for the economy of Hitchcock’s film language has plenty of room in it for ambiguity, and few characters embody ambiguity more than Midge (Barbara Bel Geddes). Here is a woman who is so devoted to Scottie Ferguson (James Stewart) that she lingers in the margins, hoping to sway him back into a relationship even long after they’ve ended their college engagement, even after he’s denied her for the mysterious and alluring Madeleine Elster (Kim Novak).
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 12:15 AM
Well, to be fair, the cumulative ranking for The Big Lebowski is higher than any individual ranking. Is that the first time that's happened?
Yep.
EDIT: or, more accurately, no.
The General was ranked #37 on the list with a highest individual ranking of 46.
Melville
04-25-2009, 12:31 AM
[Anyone else? Anyone?]
Here's a usable post from amberlita:
http://match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=8059&postcount=17
lovejuice
04-25-2009, 12:48 AM
wow, this is great. with an exception of city light, i haven't really liked any movie in the top ten so far. and with 2001 coming up, i can safely say my taste is very non-matchcut. (i'm not saying this in a bitchin' mood. it's quite amusing.)
Kurosawa Fan
04-25-2009, 01:32 AM
It's probably me. Would it have worked if I had said Tony Montana?
You were speaking of a bit of the ultra-violence?
DavidSeven
04-25-2009, 01:34 AM
Is Taxi Driver Scorsese's highest rated film? Weird. Great film, but second tier Scorsese IMHO.
lovejuice
04-25-2009, 01:37 AM
i also want to point out i have no problem with these films getting such honor. they all are great films. just ones i have no personal affection with.
Kurosawa Fan
04-25-2009, 01:40 AM
You were speaking of a bit of the ultra-violence?
*sigh*
Nevermind. Immature fanboy fodder. I get it. Man, I'm embarrassed it took me that long to figure that out. Maybe I'm tired? I have to think of some excuse that doesn't make me seem this dense.
Winston*
04-25-2009, 01:47 AM
I think The Passion of Joan of Arc will be in there and if it is KF has to paypal me US $20.
Goddamn it KF, I was so close.
Kurosawa Fan
04-25-2009, 01:50 AM
Goddamn it KF, I was so close.
Pretty sure, by normal gambling rules, you now owe me $20.
Winston*
04-25-2009, 01:52 AM
Pretty sure, by normal gambling rules, you now owe me $20.
Okay I'll pay you $20 New Zealand which is roughly equal to negative $32 US. Pay up, KF.
Kurosawa Fan
04-25-2009, 02:03 AM
Okay I'll pay you $20 New Zealand which is roughly equal to negative $32 US. Pay up, KF.
Nope. You still owe me $11.44. The internet is a beautiful thing. I'll be anxious to spend your money.
Winston*
04-25-2009, 02:05 AM
Ugh. Fine. The money's on it's way.
Dead & Messed Up
04-25-2009, 05:20 AM
The high placement of Lebowski is a bit odd. And Vertigo at #6? Ugh.
Ugh.
Taxi Driver goes some way towards redemption, but now I can't remember if Raging Bull got some love. The more I reflect on that one, the more I realize how it's, you know, kinda perfect.
Ezee E
04-25-2009, 05:33 AM
People want a unique list, but complain with Lebowski at the top ten. Come on people!
Taxi Driver made it. Sweet!
I really hope Citizen Kane doesn't hit #1 though, just because.
Sycophant
04-25-2009, 05:54 AM
I AM OKAY WITH HOW THIS LIST IS TURNING OUT EVEN THOUGH I DON'T AGREE WITH ALL OF IT BECAUSE IT IS A CONSENSUS THREAD AND COME ON.
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 05:54 AM
People want a unique list, but complain with Lebowski at the top ten. Come on people!
Taxi Driver made it. Sweet!
I really hope Citizen Kane doesn't hit #1 though, just because.
Is it too much to ask for a unique list that doesn't have an overrated fanboy catnip comedy in the Top 10? IS IT? I was happy to see a bolter in there, but I wish it had been a different film, cos I don't find it all that great.
You don't go to consensuses for a unique list. That's what individuals are for. In fact, I find it rather desperate when people purposefully try to manufacture a consensus list to make it more variable by tactical submissions.
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 06:12 AM
5.
http://www.allthingsbeautiful.com/all_things_beautiful/images/apocalypse650.jpg
"This is the way the fucking world ends. Look at this fucking shit we're in man. Not with a bang, but with a whimper. And with a whimper, I'm fucking splitting, Jack."
Apocalypse Now (Francis Ford Coppola, 1979)
List mentions: 13
Average ranking: 44.6
Highest ranking: 3 (transmogrifier)
AFI ranking (2007): 30
IMDB Ranking: 35 (8.6/10)
I actually really liked Redux unlike most people, I thought the fact it was so messy and dragging was a great parallel to Nam'. I guess it didn't hurt that I was no less compelled than with the original version.
I don't understand the suggestion that Apocalypse Now doesn't glorify violence, in the conventional sense of the word "glorify". That's the movie that depicts a bombing raid on a Vietnamese village (replete with women and children) to the strains of Wagner's Flight of the Valkyries. Doesn't get much more exciting than that. And Small Soldiers? Please. I adore the film, but suggesting that it's not played for kicks is the pinnacle of silliness.
Charlie does not feel, Charlie don’t surf, Charlie doesn’t do much at all. No harm in killing him then. And while we’re at it, might as well play some Wagner. Nothing else sounds quite so righteous. The aerial assault on the Vietnamese village is one of the more impressive scenes in Apocalypse Now, a film that could perhaps be more accurately described as a series of short films with recurring characters. The only scenes crucial to the story are the initial assignment of the mission, and the mission’s completion. Everything else could be excised without diminishing the plot. Nevertheless, Apocalypse Nowremains compelling throughout by shear force of sound and image.
Loosely based on Conrad’s Heart of Darkness, Apocalypse Now retains its source’s central themes. The blood that streams below the surface roses our skin and inspires sweetness in those we encounter, but if you follow those kind arteries up through their narrows and forks, and into their beating source, and then to a corner of the left ventricle hidden by plastic and literature and the adoration of puppies, you will find a savage place. Those afflicted with compassion or empathy need not enter, and, indeed, few do ever enter alone. However, what if that savagery permeated the normative? What if it became indistinguishable from goodness? What if a man discovered this and revealed his new found knowledge to others? Would he be destroyed?
Don’t paint “fuck” on your airplanes. Drop the napalm without obscenities was the message delivered and it was the message obeyed. I’m sure all those that had time to acknowledge the gel splattering on their shoulders before it ignited – and they with it – appreciated this gesture of civility. And if they didn’t then surely they are (were) the savages. People have the capacity to embrace these thoughts on a large scale. It only requires a little encouragement. A nudge in the right direction. Colonel Kurtz, the man declared insane by his commanders, is not guilty of crossing any boundary from good to evil. He is guilty of saying to his country “You’re right. You are absolutely right,” as citizens and soldiers alike stand upright as ever, convinced that they are utterly unlike this man.
If Kurtz is redeemed it is because his mind cannot ultimately accept the path he chose. He took society’s virtuous viciousness to its mad limit by removing what doesn’t truly belong; by removing the cancerous adjective disguising itself as benign. What’s left but the viciousness? And so he asks to be killed, because no person can indefinitely inhabit that hidden corner of the left ventricle surrounded by murals of horsemen, plague, and death all antiseptically curated by pale men and women with matted hair and smiling faces. Apocalypse Now is a film of the large, but it’s Dennis Hopper’s strung out photojournalist who reminds us of T.S. Eliot’s version of the Apocalypse. It’s the quiet one, the small one, the one that people may never notice has already happened, is happening now, since we’re so busy asking the wrong questions.
I think the approach to AN as a series of short films is indeed valid, since so much of the journey can be excised without any real narrative discontinuity. Nonetheless, the strength of its moments--specifically Coppola's cameo, and the absurdity of the Playboy girls dancing, and that finale--all exist as the strongest moments. It's a film of shadows, and without the many, usually unconnected narratives, we wouldn't get a full sense of how how history and psychosis have shadowed in both Sheen and Brando. The film's ironies are still applicable, as are the ideas of madness and megalomania, but the quiet desperation in Sheen remains the most powerful moment.
That said, the extended cut to me was interminable, so I'm thankful that I went back and visited the original cut last year, which has the appropriate depth without overindulging in the idiosyncracies.
I have absolutely zero memory of ever stating what is quoted of me there.
Watashi
04-25-2009, 06:18 AM
Is it too much to ask for a unique list that doesn't have an overrated fanboy catnip comedy in the Top 10? IS IT? I was happy to see a bolter in there, but I wish it had been a different film, cos I don't find it all that great.
You don't go to consensuses for a unique list. That's what individuals are for. In fact, I find it rather desperate when people purposefully try to manufacture a consensus list to make it more variable by tactical submissions.
Stop using the word 'fanboy'.
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 06:23 AM
4.
http://www.cinemasterpieces.com/rearwindow.jpg
"Jeff, you've got a lot to learn about homicide. Why, morons have committed murders so shrewdly that it's taken a hundred trained police minds to catch them."
Rear Window (Alfred Hitchcock, 1954)
List mentions: 14
Average ranking: 33
Highest ranking: 1 (The Mike)
AFI ranking (2007): 48
IMDB Ranking: 16 (8.8/10)
Critic Kent Jones once said something about the most cinematic experience of our life often being simply driving with the radio on; the window in front of us being the frame and the music coming out of the speakers being the score. Thus, by playing some country music for a drive through the dusty plains, or some hip-hop for a cruise through the city, we’re essentially directing a film and creating a mood for ourselves akin to how a filmmaker would use sound & image marriages to create a similar mood. Of course, we need more than just a mood for a truly satisfying cinematic experience, but Jones’ idea hints at the primal appeal of cinema and its combination of sound, image and movement; I don’t think it’d be a stretch to suggest that this is one of the primary methods many artists use to get their creative juices flowing.
The idea of movies being 'all around us' is one explored in Rear Window, the Hitchcock film that’s arguably most concerned with how cinema and voyeurism are intertwined, and drives home it’s themes with a fail-safe premise (the same one that admittedly made Disturbia so compulsively watchable) and sheer, intense pleasurability. There’s something about the overt artificiality of the film – from the obviously fake weather, to the sets, to the performances of the people Jeff (James Stewart) spies on – that makes the film more truthful than a more realistic approach could achieve. The exaggerated performances of the actors playing the watched, and the iris-in frame through which Jeff (and in effect, us) watches them recalls silent cinema, while his constant moving back and forth from one apartment block to another them recalls channel-surfing; through this, Hitchcock makes a sly comment on the effects of such media on our desire to parse out narrative logic from the essential unpredictability of everyday life, as well as catering to this desire.
It’s a film that’s ripe for all kinds of psychoanalytic readings, but the most fascinating reading for me is that Thorwald (Raymond Burr), the man who Jeff suspects of murdering his wife, is Jeff’s alter-ego. Consider the mild bickering of Jeff and his girlfriend Lisa (Grace Kelly) in the early stages of the film, and constrast it with the domestic squabbling from Thorwald's house that eventually culminate with the disappearance of his wife, and it’s easy to view Thorwald as Jeff sans the ‘crippling’, so to speak. It’s possible that Jeff’s investigation and ensuing stationary pursuit of Thorwald – that eventually leads to a devastating moment that acknowledges our complicity with Jeff’s actions – is the result of an unconscious bond shared between both men.
All this leads us to a conclusion that – in accordance with the film’s relentless self-referentiality – involves the blaring light of a camera used as a weapon. A singularly entertaining film, Rear Window at once explains why we spend so much time watching movies, while also justifying that time spent.
I do not want to be thrown through a window. Although, I wouldn’t mind jumping out of one. The best films, to me, are the ones that invite you to enter their space willingly. They are the singular films that, despite often being alienating or even hostile to the viewer, reward one for standing next to them confident and just as singular. It is only when this relationship is established that one can create alongside the film. Both the film and the viewer must be in full view of one another, and by the interaction of their gazes they define each other. For how could I know myself if I was not being watched?
The best sequence in Alfred Hitchcock’s Rear Window is the one in which Lisa (Grace Kelly) explores Thorwald’s (Raymond Burr) apartment. Hitchcock’s skill is most evident here. We are trapped in Jefferies’ (James Stewart) point of view, helpless to aid the beautiful, blond Lisa as we witness Thorwald return to his abode. It is Hitchcock’s classic technique of showing the time bomb before it goes off. The audience knows the danger before it is realized, and so the ensuing action is inevitably suspenseful since we are unable to intervene. But if Rear Window is to be read as a direct metaphor for cinema (as is commonly done) then we must consider the implications of Jefferies phone call to the police.
Jefferies, the invalid spectator, grants Lisa a pardon by directly interacting with the world he is watching. I believe we also do this for many of the characters we meet in the greatest films. Even when a film is not kind enough to grant a worthy character his/her catharsis or apotheosis, we, as the audience, are still capable of doing so for the resonant images we reflect on. Still, Jefferies does not progress much further than this. His intervention eventually leads to being tossed out a window against his wishes and further crippled. If he has grown emotionally from the experience, it is only because he has been forcibly stretched.
It is for this reason that I choose Lisa as the hero of Rear Window. She is the one willing to commit to the relationship with Jefferies. She is the one who willingly the watched space despite the personal risk. She is the one willing to be watched while Jefferies sits in the dark. She is the one longing to know herself, and the film’s most fully actualized character. Lisa may take the stairs rather than the window, but her potential fall is just as hard.
I’m opting to shun the stairs. The Window is the Way. Landing, of course, is the difficult part. Some films are so thin you fall right through them, forgetting you ever came into contact with them. Others are so desperate to have you that they rise up to your body, only to annihilate any interest you may have had in them. And then there are those films that let you explore their courtyards on your own terms, eroding the barriers that separate discovery and creation. In the meantime, I am left with the uncertainty promoted by the lack of a floor beneath my feet. Sharp inhale, no exhale. Arms out for balance. Eyes inhumanly wide. Rear Window is the drop.
Aww man, that Rear Window review is so much better than mine. This thread's gonna be so superior to the other one. I don't wanna live anymore.
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 06:23 AM
Stop using the word 'fanboy'.
Fanboy.
Watashi
04-25-2009, 06:24 AM
Mulholland Dr. better not be #1.
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 06:25 AM
I have absolutely zero memory of ever stating what is quoted of me there.
Go here (http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=44677&postcount=8950).
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 06:42 AM
3.
http://www.thomhudson.com/uploaded_images/Mulholland-Dr-788258.jpg
"It'll be just like in the movies. Pretending to be somebody else."
Mulholland Dr. (David Lynch, 2001)
List mentions: 14
Average ranking: 24.4
Highest ranking: 4 (Boner M)
AFI ranking (2007): -
IMDB Ranking: - (8.0/10)
Mulholland Dr. better not be #1.
No film, to my eyes, interrogates Hollywood and its institution as an ideal as successfully as David Lynch’s Mulholland Dr. (http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=7571&postcount=43) (2001), a film that is simultaneously an experience of fantasy, of desire, and of narrative. Governed with a narrative logic that unfolds slowly and seductively, Lynch’s film begins fairly straightforwardly, yet with glimpses and echoes of surrealism that warn you away from believing in the constructed narrative. Even the opening, with its superimposed image of our fawning heroine Betty (Naomi Watts) together with a jitterbug contest, alerts you to the fundamental apparatus of film as projection. Since the film is so recursive and circular, Lynch is asking us to consider whether or not there is some other subterranean, radical agency to this idea of projection beyond its “public memory,” beyond its testimony as truth, and in so doing Lynch explicitly jars and dislocates our sense of film as projected truth.
The reason why I like the quote and prefer Mulholland Dr. to Inland Empire is because I don't feel like the latter is relevant to anyone who isn't either obsessed with either film theory or the filmmaking industry. Inland is all about how he is saying things and brings attention to the technical pieces of the film itself. The question of "is this a film?" might not be legitimate, but it's understandable given the approach. In the end, it's things like "oh, look at how he chose to say this" that becomes more interesting than what he is actually conveying because the content of the film isn't relatable to a lot of people who aren't working in Hollywood. Mulholland Dr. is contextually more interesting, more universal, and structured in a way that masks the filmmaking tricks. It's what he is actually saying that is the focus here.
It’s hard to talk about Mulholland Drive (http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=28532&postcount=217) without making mention of its origins as an aborted TV pilot. The film’s detractors may use it as evidence as to why the film feels incohesive and/or half-baked, but for me it not only dovetails with the film’s theme of broken dreams (explicitly referenced in the Adam Kesher subplot of the ‘dream’ segment), but also leaves the film’s reshot scenes tinged with a palpable air of despair and melancholy that perhaps an ‘easier’ shoot could never have produced. That sense of something having been fought against (and ultimately overcome) is something that’s present throughout Lynch’s film, and lends a vigor that turns the greatest television pilot I’ve seen, into one of the greatest works of cinematic art that I’ve seen.
This is the first work of Lynch's that I was exposed to, and it remains my favorite to this day. The balance he strikes here between acting, writing, direction, scoring, sound design, thematic content, humor, freaky surrealism, affecting drama, and purely watchable storytelling is the strongest I've seen him accomplish. It just works like fucking gangbusters.
Through a wonderful and artistic marriage of audio and video, David Lynch (http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=37916&postcount=230) totally captures the soul of this city, and illustrates the power it has through the scenarios and situations he puts his characters through. Passionate auditions, lost identities, crumbling dreams, schmoozing dinner-parties, closed-door industry meetings, chance encounters with bizarre characters, the theatre of the absurd, and a gripping, supernatural allure, each piece effectively translates the essence of the experience for the audience. The film is episodic in nature, and yet through carefully balanced thematic qualities, the entire thing congeals into a single, powerful experience.
Watch this one late at night by yourself.
B-side
04-25-2009, 06:49 AM
Citizen Kane to be #1?:P
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 07:23 AM
2.
http://www.2blowhards.com/Citizen%20Kane.jpg
"You can't buy a bag of peanuts in this town without someone writing a song about you."
Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)
List mentions: 15
Average ranking: 34.3
Highest ranking: 6 (Sycophant)
AFI ranking (2007): 1
IMDB Ranking: 31 (8.6/10)
Come to think of it, if there's anything that I don't like about Kane, it's the reveal of Rosebud. Talk about blunt reveal.
Blunt? Maybe, but it's so important by bookending the film with a picture of Kane's shortened, stunted youth. It shows the simplicity he wanted that contrasted with the web of grandiosity and lies he wound up weaving. It's all about the picture of the small house in the snow globe and the final shot of his childhood toy.
I do not think the idea of realizing its the sled is at all a mistake. However, it's like:
"I guess we'll never know what Rosebud is. Oh well, how can a man be defined by one elusive utterance anyhow. Let's stop trying to figure out what it was like to be Charles Foster Kane."
Cut to:
OMG, IT'S HIS SLED!
It was a little artless, which is a shame given the rest of the film's extraordinary handling of information.
I think the reveal of it being the sled is as important as highlighting the destruction of the sled. Since they never found out what it is, his place in history will be solely up to those who probably never understood him. I think it is intentionally contrasted with their words because we realize now they will have the final say as far as history is concerned, and Kane's unfortunate longing for the simplicity and innocence of his childhood will never be known.
A lot of criticism about Citizen Kane nowadays actually contends that the investigator is right, and that he speaks for the filmmaker: you can't know a man from one object.
There're two hours of insightful character study preceding that reveal. A sled doesn't negate those hours, it just adds another piece to a puzzle that will remain unfinished.
Above all else, it's the wild ambition and the unhinged genius of Welles that bring me back time and time again to Citizen Kane. There are two basic levels that I enjoy films, the first as a partisan... a fan of art and cinema, the second as an aspiring artist. I don't think any other filmmaker is as personally inspiring as Welles, and it all starts with Kane. The film is an incredible exercise in style, the defied and pushed all limits to create a unified and meaningful film. While not evident the first time around, every supposed visual whim reveals and conceals aspects of Kane's life and demeanor. Watching the film again and again does little to clear up Kane's story, or motive, if anything he becomes more obscured. Kane delves into the spirit of a megalomaniac (if anything, the bombastic style of the film is an outward expression of a man bent on excess and control), who isn't just satisfied with controlling his own life, but everyone and everything around him. Rosebud does not serve as the clean-cut answer to a gap he was trying to fill, but again serves to further obscure an already complicated man. Rosebud is not so much a defining metaphor for childhood and innocence, but rather an unatainable and undefineable "something" that makes every person distant and unconnected. No one is transparent, and while Kane may be more opaque than most of us his journey and his mystery mirror fundamentally human unknowns. Life is as unknown as death, and even when we cease to exist things don't suddenly become clear. What more do we understand about a man who's last words reach out to a relic of childhood? Frankly, not too much... but as individuals, and as a collective we are drawn in by our inclination towards curiosity. There is a shallow sense of satisfaction in the discovery, and this feeling overwhelms the fact that the discovery is just that; shallow. Welles never had the same freedom as he did with this film, for the rest of his career he was burdened if not by studio interference, but by some financial difficulty. While not my favourite of his films, it's quite probably the definete. Is this the greatest film ever made? Perhaps, at the very least it's one of the most interesting.
Citizen Kane's technical merits and it's place in cinematic history can't be lauded enough, but I find all the flash and style to be detrimental to the emotional resonance. In the end I don't really care much about Charles Foster Kane at all.
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 07:33 AM
1.
http://iamyouasheisme.files.wordpress .com/2008/03/2001baby.jpg
"Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?"
2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)
List mentions: 20
Average ranking: 21.3
Highest ranking: 1 (Jamaul/Israfel the Black)
AFI ranking (2007): 15
IMDB Ranking: 87 (8.4/10)
Commentary:
In the end, it wasn't even close. 2001 appeared on 20 out of the 28 lists, five more than the second-place getter. (And with Melville and Duncan's lists to come, it's going to be 22 out of 30, which is pretty remarkable).
A quick search didn't locate any long reviews, so I thought I'd leave it open for your own comments. This is Match Cut's Top Film of All-Time.
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 07:35 AM
I'm going to add the three lists that have popped up since this list started (Dukes, Melvilles and Duncans) and I'll post the revised Top 100 here, and then offer the excel sheet for all the films combined.
Melville
04-25-2009, 07:59 AM
Great job with this thread. 2001 deserves its spot at the top. (And The Big Lebowski deserves its place in the top 10.)
Sycophant
04-25-2009, 08:14 AM
Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)
List mentions: 15
Average ranking: 34.3
Highest ranking: 6 (Sycophant)
AFI ranking (2007): 1
IMDB Ranking: 31 (8.6/10)
I'm not remotely ashamed, no matter how conventional a pick it is. I've seen it as many times as any other film on this or my own list and it never ceases to thrill me.
Great quote from Rouge there.
B-side
04-25-2009, 09:48 AM
Excellent work with this, trans. 2001 is pure excellence.
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 10:46 AM
UPDATED TOP 100
Top 10 is unchanged. Only big changes are shown, and new additions are noted in bold.
1. 2001: A Space Odyssey
2. Citizen Kane
3. Mulholland Dr.
4. Rear Window
5. Apocalypse Now
6. Vertigo
7. City Lights
8. Taxi Driver
9. The Big Lebowski
10. Pulp Fiction
11. The Passion of Joan of Arc
12. In the Mood for Love
13. 8 ½
14. The Empire Strikes Back
15. Playtime
16. Blade Runner (+7)
17. Ikiru
18. The Good the Bad and the Ugly
19. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (+6)
20. Casablanca (-7)
21. F for Fake
22. Days of Heaven (+10)
23. Aguirre: The Wrath of God
24. Dr. Strangelove
25. The Conversation (+11)
26. Lawrence of Arabia (+13)
27. Raiders of the Lost Ark (+13)
28. The Third Man
29. Do the Right Thing (-8)
30. It’s a Wonderful Life (+15)
31. Seven Samurai
32. The Royal Tenenbaums (+11)
33. Once Upon a Time in the West
34. The Night of the Hunter (-10)
35. Annie Hall (-9)
36. Ran (-9)
37. Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans (-9)
38. Persona (+27)
39. M (-10)
40. Ordet (+20)
41. The Godfather
42. Sunset Blvd (-11)
43. Punch-Drunk Love
44. McCabe & Mrs. Miller (-11)
45. Alien
46. Fargo
47. The Shining
48. The General (-11)
49. A Zed & Two Noughts
50. Brazil
51. Heat
52. Monty Python and the Holy Grail (-14)
53. Sans Soleil
54. Young Frankenstein
55. Barry Lyndon (-14)
56. Aliens
57. Oldboy (+10)
58. Eraserhead (+11)
59. La Dolce Vita
60. Manhattan (+24)
61. Le Samourai
62. The Thing (+11)
63. Dawn of the Dead (+11)
64. The Thin Red Line (-18)
65. Se7en
66. The Apartment (-18)
67. Notorious (-18)
68. Eyes Wide Shut
69. Blue Velvet (+30)
70. The Battle of Algiers (+20)
71. Metropolis (+21)
72. No Country For Old Men (-19)
73. AI: Artificial Intelligence (-17)
74. Throne of Blood
75. Tokyo Story
76. Au Hasard Balthazar (+39)
77. My Life to Live
78. Amadeus
79. The Wizard of Oz (-17)
80. Bicycle Thieves (-17)
81. The Shawshank Redemption (-15)
82. A Clockwork Orange
83. Some Like it Hot
84. Raging Bull (+48)
85. The Spirit of the Beehive (+49)
86. Jaws
87. Rushmore (+51)
88. Dog Day Afternoon
89. The Graduate (-17)
90. Close Encounters of the Third Kind
91. The Last Temptation of Christ
92. Stroszek
93. Dead Ringers (+10)
94. There Will Be Blood
95. Saving Private Ryan (+13)
96. Night of the Living Dead (+14)
97. Andrei Rublev (+71)
98. L'avventura (+14)
99. Nashville (-23)
100. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (+13)
GONE:
Boogie Nights
Touch of Evil
Seven Chances
The Rules of the Game
Goodfellas
Hana-bi
The Truman Show
Once Upon a Time in America
Umberto D
Paths of Glory
Walkabout
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 10:55 AM
There are 600 films exactly on our master list that were nominated at least twice.
Next weekend I'll do a quick rundown of directors on that main list (and the Top 100).
Ezee E
04-25-2009, 11:32 AM
I have no problem with Citizen Kane. It's a great movie, and made my list. I just wanted to see a different #1, and I like it.
We're pretty consistent with our love for that movie.
D_Davis
04-25-2009, 03:33 PM
This has been an awesome thread, Trans.
Spinal
04-25-2009, 03:42 PM
19. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (+6)
Argh! Make it stop!
lovejuice
04-25-2009, 03:43 PM
This has been an awesome thread, Trans.
yes, i too want to comment you on such an immense job.
Kurosawa Fan
04-25-2009, 04:00 PM
That revised Top 100 is a downgrade. Let's disqualify those late ballots.
19. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (+6)
Argh! Make it stop!
Just makes me dislike it even more, as if that were even possible.
Spinal
04-25-2009, 04:06 PM
That revised Top 100 is a downgrade. Let's disqualify those late ballots.
Absolutely. You get rid of Walkabout, Seven Chances, Umberto D and Paths of Glory. You add Lord of the Rings, more Cronenberg, more Tarkovsky and the donkey movie. Lame.
Kurosawa Fan
04-25-2009, 04:09 PM
Absolutely. You get rid of Walkabout, Seven Chances, Umberto D and Paths of Glory. You add Lord of the Rings, more Cronenberg, more Tarkovsky and the donkey movie. Lame.
You and I, we're on the same page right now. Same sentence even.
Qrazy
04-25-2009, 04:28 PM
You and I, we're on the same page right now. Same sentence even.
And you both suck equally for not respecting Andrei Rublev and Au Hasard Balthazar.
Ezee E
04-25-2009, 04:29 PM
Yeah, but at least Raging Bull gets in.
Still, old list. Better
Ezee E
04-25-2009, 04:30 PM
Yeah, but at least Raging Bull gets in.
Still, old list. Better
Just noticed that Goodfellas fell off. So yeah, horrible list.
Spinal
04-25-2009, 04:34 PM
And you both suck equally for not respecting Andrei Rublev and Au Hasard Balthazar.
I respect Andrei Rublev. I just think that its tediousness far outweighs its moments of inspiration. Balthazar, on the other hand, is what I think of whenever I hear the word 'risible'.
Kurosawa Fan
04-25-2009, 04:40 PM
Balthazar, on the other hand, is what I think of whenever I hear the word 'risible'.
I had to look up that word to see what it meant, and now I'm pretty sure I'll always think of that as well.
DavidSeven
04-25-2009, 04:48 PM
Thirded.
Am I making this up or did we do a consensus Top 100 some years back? Just wondering if someone still had a copy of that for comparison sake.
Melville
04-25-2009, 04:58 PM
Argh! Make it stop!
I should have put it on my list twice for good measure.
Absolutely. You get rid of Walkabout, Seven Chances, Umberto D and Paths of Glory. You add Lord of the Rings, more Cronenberg, more Tarkovsky and the donkey movie. Lame.
Crazy talk. The new list is obviously superior. The only major loss was Touch of Evil. And I can't believe you'd single out the addition of a Tarkovsky movie rather than the addition of Saving Private Ryan. Now there's a movie that shouldn't be anywhere near a top 100 list. And you make it seem as if Tarkovsky and Cronenberg already had multiple movies on the list, as opposed to the zero that they actually had (unless my skim-reading is betraying me again).
Agreed about Lord of the Rings.
I respect Andrei Rublev. I just think that its tediousness far outweighs its moments of inspiration. Balthazar, on the other hand, is what I think of whenever I hear the word 'risible'.
Every moment in Andrei Rublev is a moment of inspiration. I can understand disliking Balthazar, but what about it is laughable?
Boner M
04-25-2009, 05:00 PM
MY FAVORITE FILMS ARE BETTER THAN YOUR FAVORITE FILMS SPINAL GAVE LARS AND THE REAL GIRL FOUR STARS WHO CARES IF HE THINKS BRESSON IS RISIBLE MATCH-CUT IS FULL OF FANBOYS BABY DOLL WILL ADD ANOTHER THIRTY PAGES TO THIS THREAD SO WILL ISRAFEL I WONT POST FOR ANOTHER WEEK AND WHEN I DO IT'LL BE THREE LINES ON A MOVIE NO ONE WILL EVER SEE WINSTON* WILL MAKE A SNARKY ONE LINE POST AND MADMAN WILL REP HIM FOR IT AND THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR ANOTHER TEN YEARS OR SO ETC ETC ETC
Melville
04-25-2009, 05:01 PM
MY FAVORITE FILMS ARE BETTER THAN YOUR FAVORITE FILMS SPINAL GAVE LARS AND THE REAL GIRL FOUR STARS WHO CARES IF HE THINKS BRESSON IS RISIBLE MATCH-CUT IS FULL OF FANBOYS BABY DOLL WILL ADD ANOTHER THIRTY PAGES TO THIS THREAD SO WILL ISRAFEL I WONT POST FOR ANOTHER WEEK AND WHEN I DO IT'LL BE THREE LINES ON A MOVIE NO ONE WILL EVER SEE WINSTON* WILL MAKE A SNARKY ONE LINE POST AND MADMAN WILL REP HIM FOR IT AND THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR ANOTHER TEN YEARS OR SO ETC ETC ETC
This is the best post in the history of match-cut.
Sycophant
04-25-2009, 05:04 PM
Guess we'd better rename the FDT to "The Sisyphean Film Discussion Thread."
Oh, and here's our top 100 American & non-American (http://match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=72) films we did a couple years ago.
Dead & Messed Up
04-25-2009, 05:06 PM
People want a unique list, but complain with Lebowski at the top ten. Come on people!
Taxi Driver made it. Sweet!
I really hope Citizen Kane doesn't hit #1 though, just because.
I'm more interested in a good list than a unique list. And I'm madder at Vertigo than Big Lebowski.
Sycophant
04-25-2009, 05:07 PM
Why would you be mad about Vertigo? Surely by this point in your life, you've accepted that you're like the only person on Earth that doesn't like that movie.
Boner M
04-25-2009, 05:12 PM
It's weird that I cringed at the high placements of Rear Window, Taxi Driver and Mulholland Drive, even though they were all in my top ten. I'm full of self-loathing, it seems.
Dead & Messed Up
04-25-2009, 05:13 PM
Why would you be mad about Vertigo? Surely by this point in your life, you've accepted that you're like the only person on Earth that doesn't like that movie.
I like the movie, but it ain't that great.
Boner M
04-25-2009, 05:20 PM
Regarding The Big Lebowski, I think it's one of those films that tends to be the apathetically-selected token comfort food film for every list. I admit that I looked at mine in the process of making it and thought, "Wow, this is one boring-ass, artfaggy collection of titles. Better chuck something fun on there... maybe Lebowski, I guess?" And then everyone did the same, and thought it'd be OK, but little did we all know that we'd elevated a perfectly amiable and funky entertainment to the status of ONE OF THE TEN GREATEST FILMS OF ALL TIME.
Oh well... at least it wasn't Ghostbusters.
Sycophant
04-25-2009, 05:22 PM
I like the movie, but it ain't that great.
Well, everyone else does.
Melville
04-25-2009, 05:35 PM
It's weird that I cringed at the high placements of Rear Window, Taxi Driver and Mulholland Drive, even though they were all in my top ten. I'm full of self-loathing, it seems.
I think the only solution is to scrap your list and make up a new one consisting of movies that don't exist. That way it will never be sullied by over-exposure or fanboyism.
Regarding The Big Lebowski, I think it's one of those films that tends to be the apathetically-selected token comfort food film for every list. I admit that I looked at mine in the process of making it and thought, "Wow, this is one boring-ass, artfaggy collection of titles. Better chuck something fun on there... maybe Lebowski, I guess?" And then everyone did the same, and thought it'd be OK, but little did we all know that we'd elevated a perfectly amiable and funky entertainment to the status of ONE OF THE TEN GREATEST FILMS OF ALL TIME.
I don't know about the other people who included it on their lists, but I think it really is one of the best movies ever made. Its aestheticization of the banal is brilliant. Its parody of noir tropes is perfect. Its verbal rhythms are magnificent. And it's funny as hell.
Kurosawa Fan
04-25-2009, 05:37 PM
I don't know about the other people who included it on their lists, but I think it really is one of the best movies ever made. Its aestheticization of the banal is brilliant. Its parody of noir tropes is perfect. Its verbal rhythms are magnificent. And it's funny as hell.
And now I love you too.
Melville
04-25-2009, 05:38 PM
And now I love you too.
:pritch:
Dead & Messed Up
04-25-2009, 05:49 PM
Well, everyone else does.
:confused:
DavidSeven
04-25-2009, 06:09 PM
Its aestheticization of the banal is brilliant. Its parody of noir tropes is perfect. Its verbal rhythms are magnificent. And it's funny as hell.
Fargo does all of this. Only better. With drama.
Kurosawa Fan
04-25-2009, 06:11 PM
Fargo does all of this. Only better. With drama.
And Lebowski does it with much better humor.
DavidSeven
04-25-2009, 06:18 PM
I think Fargo is just as funny. Just not as farcical, obviously.
Kurosawa Fan
04-25-2009, 06:19 PM
I think Fargo is just as funny. Just not as farcical, obviously.
I love Fargo, and both made my top 100, but I don't think it has near the laughs that Lebowski has.
Melville
04-25-2009, 07:19 PM
Fargo does all of this. Only better. With drama.
Well, I also think Fargo is one of the best movies ever made, and I ranked it above Lebowski on my list. But I don't think it does any of the things that Lebowski does. How does it aestheticize the banal? There's nothing in it like the slow-motion bowling shots in Lebowski. It certainly celebrates the banal—Marge is a great hero, and the ending is a powerful endorsement of the everyday—but I don't think it aestheticizes it, at least not in the way that Lebowski does. And how does it parody genre tropes? It seems like a very idiosyncratic crime story, not a parody; it's certainly not a parody in the overt, conceptual way that Lebowski is (though parody is probably a poor word to use to describe Lebowski). And dialogue doesn't play as central a role in Fargo as it does in Lebowski, where basically the whole movie is structured around its dialogues. In particular, I don't see anything like the recurring phrases in Lewbowski (my favorite: "This aggression will not stand"), which provide a rhythm not only for individual conversations, but for the whole movie, adding to its absurd self-referentiality.
As far as funniness goes, I suppose it's just a matter of taste. Fargo is funny, but it goes for a sense of dread at least as often as it goes for humor; Lebowski, on the other hand, is just nonstop hilarity.
Overall, I guess I don't see why the greatness of Fargo should devalue the greatness of Lebowski.
DavidSeven
04-25-2009, 08:27 PM
Overall, I guess I don't see why the greatness of Fargo should devalue the greatness of Lebowski.
It doesn't. I love Lebowski. One of the best pure comedies of all time. In fact, I would like to slap all those Apatow-heads with a copy of the DVD for contending that a funny movie can't be formally impressive.
My contention is simply that, if we wanted to recognize the Coens in the top ten, it should have been Fargo (nitpick trademarked collectively by Match-Cut). I don't know that Fargo falls precisely within the boundaries you outlined, but it's certainly related. For one, it's often recognized as a neo-noir, and they are doing a lot with gender roles (both in the way of Marge being the calculating protagonist and the men being the ones that cause all of the problems). And while the film certainly celebrates Marge's simple existence, it also mocks the banality that permeates the town. This isn't done expressly, so it must have been done "aesthetically" (which here, I'll take to mean anything conveyed on screen). As far as the dialogue, I don't know if I agree with your detective work there, Mellville. It's less thematically "on the nose" than Lebowski for sure, but no less effective. The crux of the entire narrative hinges on seemingly unrelated, but completely parrallel conversations (see the conversations with Macy and Marge's highschool "friend"). One of the most brilliantly executed "turning points" ever and done completely through dialogue. Also, "I just don't get it" is one of the best line readings in the history of American cinema for its emotional impact and thematic relevance.
Duncan
04-25-2009, 08:38 PM
For the record, I had nothing to do with Saving Private Ryan and LotR placing this time around. Au Hazard Balthazar, The Spirit of the Beehive, Andrei Rublev, L'Avventura...Those films deserve to be on any top 100.
Duncan
04-25-2009, 08:42 PM
And I've got no problem with The Big Lebowski being in the top 10. It is a bit of a fanboyish top tier, but I get the love for all those films.
And I already said it in my review, but I think Eternal Sunshine is escapist cinema done exactly right.
Melville
04-25-2009, 08:51 PM
My contention is simply that, if we wanted to recognize the Coens in the top ten, it should have been Fargo (nitpick trademarked collectively by Match-Cut).
Ah, I see. OK. I'm all for a good nitpicking. (Though in a case like this I don't really care. It's interesting to see the consensus, but I'm not really concerned with the details of the results.)
I don't know that Fargo falls precisely within the boundaries you outlined, but it's certainly related. For one, it's often recognized as a neo-noir, and they are doing a lot with gender roles (both in the way of Marge being the calculating protagonist and the men being the ones that cause all of the problems).
Sure, it qualifies as a neo-noir, and it does interesting things with the genre, but it doesn't parody them like Lebowski does with it's stoner-in-a-bizarro-Chandler-story concept.
And while the film certainly celebrates Marge's simple existence, it also mocks the banality that permeates the town. This isn't done expressly, so it must have been done "aesthetically" (which here, I'll take to mean anything conveyed on screen).
Oh, I meant something more specific: Lebowski transforms mundane life into an aesthetic object.
As far as the dialogue, I don't know if I agree with your detective work there, Mellville. It's less thematically "on the nose" than Lebowski for sure, but no less effective. The crux of the entire narrative hinges on seemingly unrelated, but completely parrallel conversations (see the conversations with Macy and Marge's highschool "friend"). One of the most brilliantly executed "turning points" ever and done completely through dialogue.
OK, maybe I overstated the difference there, but I think Lebowski is about the dialogue more than Fargo is. Fargo has great dialogue and much of the plot is driven by conversations, but in Lebowski the conversations are the plot. But I definitely agree about that conversation with Marge's high-school friend. I love that scene.
Also, "I just don't get it" is one of the best line readings in the history of American cinema for its emotional impact and thematic relevance.
Are you talking about the line, "And here ya are, and it's a beautiful day. Well. I just don't understand it." If so, then yes...that might be my favorite line of dialogue in any movie.
Anyway, I think we're on the same page here, if not on the same sentence.
EDIT: regarding the nitpicking...The Big Lebowski appeals to a broad range of tastes, so it's only natural that it would rank so highly on a consensus list. Any movie that has a broad enough appeal to make it onto both my list and Davis' deserves an elevated spot on a list like this.
DavidSeven
04-25-2009, 08:54 PM
Are you talking about the line, "And here ya are, and it's a beautiful day. Well. I just don't understand it." If so, then yes...that might be my favorite line of dialogue in any movie.
Anyway, I think we're on the same page here, if not on the same sentence.
Yeah. I should be more careful when paraphrasing.
Spaceman Spiff
04-25-2009, 09:01 PM
I love The Big Lebowski. I'm totally okay with it's placement for pretty much the exact same reasons Melville stated.
I am also constantly surprised by how many people like Mulholland Drive. I don't even think it's top 5 Lynch for me, let alone top 5 of all time.
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 09:06 PM
I think that Mulholland Dr., Eternal Sunshine and In the Mood for Love are the three best movies of the 2000s and deserve their places on the list.
Spaceman Spiff
04-25-2009, 09:13 PM
I think that Mulholland Dr., Eternal Sunshine and In the Mood for Love are the three best movies of the 2000s and deserve their places on the list.
Well I agree with Eternal Sunshine (take that, Spinal)
I dig Mulholland Dr, but people are just crazy over it and I find it a wee bit odd. In the Mood for Love is also good, and again I'm not sure I understand its deafening praise.
I think The Royal Tenenbaums and The Proposition would be my other 2 picks.
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 09:20 PM
Well I agree with Eternal Sunshine (take that, Spinal)
I dig Mulholland Dr, but people are just crazy over it and I find it a wee bit odd. In the Mood for Love is also good, and again I'm not sure I understand its deafening praise.
I think The Royal Tenenbaums and The Proposition would be my other 2 picks.
The Royal Tenenbaums is incredibly overrated - I prefer all of Andersons's other films except Bottle Rocket.
My Top 5 of the 00s would also include Oldboy and Battle Royale. (or Spirited Away, Emperor's New Groove or Before Sunset, depending on my mood)
Ezee E
04-25-2009, 09:20 PM
I guess the decade is coming to a close. Match Cut's first ever Decade Awards to commence.
Spaceman Spiff
04-25-2009, 09:26 PM
The Royal Tenenbaums is incredibly overrated - I prefer all of Andersons's other films except Bottle Rocket.
My Top 5 of the 00s would also include Oldboy and Battle Royale. (or Spirited Away, Emperor's New Groove or Before Sunset, depending on my mood)
Love Before Sunset, actually that might be in my top 3 (I dunno at who's expense).
But Emperor's New Groove? Are you kidding me? You're kidding me.
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 09:29 PM
Surprises of the list:
The Wild Bunch scraped onto the list on the last update with TWO mentions (boggles the mind, really, considering I think it is the best film ever made)
The Godfather Part 2 got only THREE mentions.
Howard Hawks has only two films on the entire 600 film list.
Slither made the list, probably (in my mind) the worst film to do so, along with The Matrix Reloaded.
The poor showing of Life of Brian (#198)
Strong showings for There Will Be Blood and No Country for Old Men (both Top 100), yet Zodiac didn't get a single mention.
Kurosawa Fan
04-25-2009, 09:34 PM
Strong showings for There Will Be Blood and No Country for Old Men (both Top 100), yet Zodiac didn't get a single mention.
It was the last film to get cut from my list. #101.
Ezee E
04-25-2009, 09:35 PM
Peckinpah always gets screwed.
transmogrifier
04-25-2009, 09:35 PM
Only one film was ranked #1 on an individual yet failed to pick up any other vote, and thus missed the list: Slacker
Only three films appeared at #1 on more than one individual list:
2001: A Space Odyssey (4)
Nights of Cabiria (2)
Rear Window (2)
Melville
04-25-2009, 10:59 PM
The Godfather Part 2 got only THREE mentions.
How did you break up my listing of The Godfather Parts 1 & 2?
Bosco B Thug
04-25-2009, 11:52 PM
Citizen Kane and 2001 at the top = the only appropriate way this could have ended. Outside of my completely making the list my own, of course. Good job, Match-Cut and trans, this was very interesting.
Surprises of the list:
Slither made the list, probably (in my mind) the worst film to do so, along with The Matrix Reloaded. Yeah. Can't recall too much of the entire 600, but for sure, it probably is.
Strong showings for There Will Be Blood and No Country for Old Men (both Top 100), yet Zodiac didn't get a single mention. Bleeerrggh.
B-side
04-26-2009, 12:34 AM
The absence of The Wild Bunch on the list before the update boggles the mind. I might not be remembering correctly, but I don't recall any Fassbinder making the list.
transmogrifier
04-26-2009, 12:35 AM
How did you break up my listing of The Godfather Parts 1 & 2?
Split them at the point you had them in the list (53 was it? So they became 53 and 54) and dropped your #100 off the list.
transmogrifier
04-26-2009, 12:39 AM
The absence of The Wild Bunch on the list before the update boggles the mind. I might not be remembering correctly, but I don't recall any Fassbinder making the list.
Ali: Fear Eats the Soul #334 (3 mentions)
In a Year of 13 Moons #381 (2)
Berlin Alexanderplatz #383 (2)
B-side
04-26-2009, 12:40 AM
Ali: Fear Eats the Soul #334 (3 mentions)
In a Year of 13 Moons #381 (2)
Berlin Alexanderplatz #383 (2)
Ahh. I should've remembered my #2 making it.:P
Sad that none even cracked the top 300, though.
lovejuice
04-26-2009, 12:50 AM
i feel a bit bad that i cannot contribute to this wonderful top 100. but on the other hand, i don't think my ranking will change anything. so i will just pick stuff out of the revised list that will definitely be in mine, if i ever make one.
asterisk is perhaps top 30 material.
3. Mulholland Dr.
4. Rear Window*
5. Apocalypse Now
7. City Lights*
12. In the Mood for Love
16. Blade Runner
18. The Good the Bad and the Ugly
22. Days of Heaven *
26. Lawrence of Arabia
27. Raiders of the Lost Ark*
31. Seven Samurai*
33. Once Upon a Time in the West
35. Annie Hall*
36. Ran*
38. Persona*
50. Brazil*
52. Monty Python and the Holy Grail*
56. Aliens*
64. The Thin Red Line*
69. Blue Velvet *
86. Jaws
94. There Will Be Blood
99. Nashville *
it might be possible that my top 100 will push rear window above mulholland dr.
Spaceman Spiff
04-26-2009, 02:22 AM
The absence of The Wild Bunch on the list before the update boggles the mind. I might not be remembering correctly, but I don't recall any Fassbinder making the list.
Yeah, that is a weird one. That's a film that's locked into my list.
Melville
04-26-2009, 02:36 AM
Split them at the point you had them in the list (53 was it? So they became 53 and 54) and dropped your #100 off the list.
Ah. No big loss. While I was still writing reviews for my top 100, somewhere along the line it became a top 99. So when I posted the full list, I just arbitrarily chose an honorable mention to fill it out.
Fezzik
04-26-2009, 02:40 AM
Only one film was ranked #1 on an individual yet failed to pick up any other vote, and thus missed the list: Slacker
What was the criteria to appear on the master list? Two mentions, or three?
I had Glory at #1 but don't remember it on the rundown. Was it on some of the later entries?
If so, where did it end up? :)
transmogrifier
04-26-2009, 02:42 AM
What was the criteria to appear on the master list? Two mentions, or three?
I had Glory at #1 but don't remember it on the rundown. Was it on some of the later entries?
If so, where did it end up? :)
#421 (2 mentions)
Qrazy
04-26-2009, 02:54 AM
I respect Andrei Rublev. I just think that its tediousness far outweighs its moments of inspiration. Balthazar, on the other hand, is what I think of whenever I hear the word 'risible'.
Parts of it are supposed to be funny... do you not like any Bresson then?
Qrazy
04-26-2009, 02:55 AM
MY FAVORITE FILMS ARE BETTER THAN YOUR FAVORITE FILMS SPINAL GAVE LARS AND THE REAL GIRL FOUR STARS WHO CARES IF HE THINKS BRESSON IS RISIBLE MATCH-CUT IS FULL OF FANBOYS BABY DOLL WILL ADD ANOTHER THIRTY PAGES TO THIS THREAD SO WILL ISRAFEL I WONT POST FOR ANOTHER WEEK AND WHEN I DO IT'LL BE THREE LINES ON A MOVIE NO ONE WILL EVER SEE WINSTON* WILL MAKE A SNARKY ONE LINE POST AND MADMAN WILL REP HIM FOR IT AND THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR ANOTHER TEN YEARS OR SO ETC ETC ETC
Epic win.
D_Davis
04-26-2009, 03:02 AM
Regarding The Big Lebowski, I think it's one of those films that tends to be the apathetically-selected token comfort food film for every list. I admit that I looked at mine in the process of making it and thought, "Wow, this is one boring-ass, artfaggy collection of titles. Better chuck something fun on there... maybe Lebowski, I guess?" And then everyone did the same, and thought it'd be OK, but little did we all know that we'd elevated a perfectly amiable and funky entertainment to the status of ONE OF THE TEN GREATEST FILMS OF ALL TIME.
Nope. It's one of the greatest films I've ever seen. Totally deserves to be in a top 10.
Qrazy
04-26-2009, 03:04 AM
Nope. It's one of the greatest films I've ever seen. Totally deserves to be in a top 10.
No it doesn't, stop lying to yourself.
D_Davis
04-26-2009, 03:06 AM
No it doesn't, stop lying to yourself.
If it was Russian you'd love it.
Qrazy
04-26-2009, 03:11 AM
If it was Russian you'd love it.
True story.
D_Davis
04-26-2009, 03:13 AM
True story.
And if it were Asian I'd totally love it even more.
"Big Lebowski in the 36th Chamber"
Qrazy
04-26-2009, 05:49 AM
And if it were Asian I'd totally love it even more.
"Big Lebowski in the 36th Chamber"
Have you had a chance to check out Juliet of the Spirits (Fellini) or Now and Then, Here and There? In turn I shall check out Touch of Zen, as I have been meaning to for some time.
The Mike
04-26-2009, 05:54 AM
Kinda sad I wasn't as cool as those who listed Slither. If nothing else, it's far better than Eternal Sunshine.
transmogrifier
04-26-2009, 05:58 AM
Kinda sad I wasn't as cool as those who listed Slither. If nothing else, it's far better than Eternal Sunshine.
This may well be the wrongest statement ever uttered by anyone ever. That takes some doing.
D_Davis
04-26-2009, 02:31 PM
Kinda sad I wasn't as cool as those who listed Slither. If nothing else, it's far better than Eternal Sunshine.
Oh, for sure.
D_Davis
04-26-2009, 02:31 PM
Have you had a chance to check out Juliet of the Spirits (Fellini) or Now and Then, Here and There? In turn I shall check out Touch of Zen, as I have been meaning to for some time.
I haven't, yet. Haven't had the time to watch much of anything lately.
Pop Trash
04-26-2009, 09:36 PM
My main problem with Mulholland Drive (and granted I still think it's a very good, if not great, film) stems all the way back to when it was first produced. It was originally meant to be a TV series and I think, in the first half of the film especially, you can see how characters are introduced to return in later episodes of the series, ala "Twin Peaks." These disparate strands that is later wrapped up as a movie in total, mares the film for me a bit. I've long thought Lynch should have pitched it as a series to HBO or Showtime (but not really ABC as it was originally) in order to keep the R-rated content in tact and to have more creative control to just go buck wild with the material. That would have been awesome.
transmogrifier
04-26-2009, 10:37 PM
My main problem with Mulholland Drive (and granted I still think it's a very good, if not great, film) stems all the way back to when it was first produced. It was originally meant to be a TV series and I think, in the first half of the film especially, you can see how characters are introduced to return in later episodes of the series, ala "Twin Peaks." These desperate strands that is later wrapped up as a movie in total, mares the film for me a bit. I've long thought Lynch should have pitched it as a series to HBO or Showtime (but not really ABC as it was originally) in order to keep the R-rated content in tact and to have more creative control to just go buck wild with the material. That would have been awesome.
Film is compromise, the friction between what you picture in your head and what can actually be achieved the day you step behind the camera. Mulholland Dr. is merely an extreme example of this. The fact that Lynch managed to reappropriate a work and incorporate it into a cohesive, beautifully textured, wholly realized movie is almost a miracle. But you know what, when I watch MD, I never think for even a second about its production history and neither should you. Judge the film, not how it got made. I mean, do you dislike the "duel" in Raiders of the Lost Ark because Speilberg never intended to shoot it that way in the first place, and it was only a case of the shits that brought it about?
Pop Trash
04-26-2009, 11:12 PM
Film is compromise, the friction between what you picture in your head and what can actually be achieved the day you step behind the camera. Mulholland Dr. is merely an extreme example of this. The fact that Lynch managed to reappropriate a work and incorporate it into a cohesive, beautifully textured, wholly realized movie is almost a miracle. But you know what, when I watch MD, I never think for even a second about its production history and neither should you. Judge the film, not how it got made. I mean, do you dislike the "duel" in Raiders of the Lost Ark because Speilberg never intended to shoot it that way in the first place, and it was only a case of the shits that brought it about?
Oh, come on. You can't even make a comparison to ONE SCENE in Raiders to an entire production that was originally meant to be a TV series, and may have been scrapped if the French didn't come in to rescue it for a full length film. I agree that behind the scenes deal making and what not shouldn't really be in place for judging a film, but in this case, I am judging WHAT IS ON SCREEN since WHAT IS ON SCREEN introduces various characters that are clearly meant to be developed more (the irony deficient cowboy dude being the next Log Lady, etc.) As it stands, it is still a very good movie but it's like saying the pilot to "Twin Peaks" (with the rather lame tacked on ending with the "Bob" character being just some random hobo that would have run if the series wasn't picked up) is better than the series in total, which is patently absurd.
Derek
04-26-2009, 11:16 PM
As it stands, it is still a very good movie but it's like saying the pilot to "Twin Peaks" (with the rather lame tacked on ending with the "Bob" character being just some random hobo that would have run if the series wasn't picked up) is better than the series in total, which is patently absurd.
Actually, it's not like that at all since there is no complete Mulholland Dr. series to compare the film to. You are essentially saying that calling Mulholland Dr. the film great is patently absurd because clearly the series, which does not exist and never will, would have been better. That, as Spinal would say, is risible.
transmogrifier
04-26-2009, 11:25 PM
....but in this case, I am judging WHAT IS ON SCREEN since WHAT IS ON SCREEN introduces various characters that are clearly meant to be developed more (the irony deficient cowboy dude being the next Log Lady, etc.) .
So, in fact, you are relating it to the production history, because the film itself clearly positions all these little side character as the fever dream product of a mind addled by the Hollywood dream and exposure to typical Hollywood product and cliches, and thus are totally self-explanatory within the context of the film itself.
If you are unable to forget the gossip behind the making of and concentrate on what the film actually does or does not do, that's your fault, not the film's.
Spinal
04-26-2009, 11:41 PM
Actually, it's not like that at all since there is no complete Mulholland Dr. series to compare the film to. You are essentially saying that calling Mulholland Dr. the film great is patently absurd because clearly the series, which does not exist and never will, would have been better. That, as Spinal would say, is risible.
Thank you for saving me the effort.
Ezee E
04-26-2009, 11:47 PM
I still like the idea of Lynch doing a HBO TV Show.
Although some people would say Carnivale did it for him.
MadMan
04-26-2009, 11:58 PM
So I didn't get my list in in time before the #1 was announced. Procrastination wins again :P
Is the entire list going to be eventually posted? This idea was awesome, btw. I wonder how the list would possibly change in 5 years, or even 10.
D_Davis
04-27-2009, 12:31 AM
The fragmented nature of MD's narrative and character arcs only adds to its dream-logic. Like the comedy of blunders with the thug in the run down office. Sure, he was probably supposed to be developed more in the proposed series, but his scene in the film adds an moment of absurdity and comedy to the film's darker atmosphere. And I like how it's just a little vignette that could really stand alone. It feels like a dream-break within a larger dream-narrative.
Pop Trash
04-27-2009, 12:40 AM
Actually, it's not like that at all since there is no complete Mulholland Dr. series to compare the film to. You are essentially saying that calling Mulholland Dr. the film great is patently absurd because clearly the series, which does not exist and never will, would have been better. That, as Spinal would say, is risible.
No, I actually didn't say that. Read my post. I was talking about "Twin Peaks" there. Basically saying: "Twin Peaks" (series) >>>>>>>> Twin Peaks (TV movie with tacked on ending)
Derek
04-27-2009, 12:49 AM
No, I actually didn't say that. Read my post. I was talking about "Twin Peaks" there. Basically saying: "Twin Peaks" (series) >>>>>>>> Twin Peaks (TV movie with tacked on ending)
Yes, in relation to the film Mulholland Dr., the film being discussed. If not, please explain what you meant by this:
As it stands, [Mulholland Dr.] is still a very good movie but it's like saying the pilot to "Twin Peaks" (with the rather lame tacked on ending with the "Bob" character being just some random hobo that would have run if the series wasn't picked up) is better than the series in total
What is the it in question referring to if not Mulholland Dr./non-existent Mulholland Dr. series?
soitgoes...
04-27-2009, 01:17 AM
The Ceremony (Oshima, 1971) 92:eek:
Derek
04-27-2009, 02:02 AM
:eek:
It's the tits. Watched it on Friday and again today (it gets better) - a remarkably complex, subtle, strange, tragic condemnation of modern Japan. It's the culmination, both visually and thematically, of everything Oshima's has tackled before, but it's scope is broader and his style perfectly honed and restrained. I knew he had a masterpiece in him, but this exceeded all expectations. Best film I've seen in a long time.
B-side
04-27-2009, 02:07 AM
It's the tits. Watched it on Friday and again today (it gets better) - a remarkably complex, subtle, strange, tragic condemnation of modern Japan. It's the culmination, both visually and thematically, of everything Oshima's has tackled before, but it's scope is broader and his style perfectly honed and restrained. I knew he had a masterpiece in him, but this exceeded all expectations. Best film I've seen in a long time.
Intriguing. I'll have to look into it.
Qrazy
04-27-2009, 02:41 AM
This Mulholland Drive argument would have been better if it had taken place via PMs. In it's current form it's alright, but it's not great.
Spaceman Spiff
04-27-2009, 02:51 AM
This Mulholland Drive argument would have been better if it had taken place via PMs. In it's current form it's alright, but it's not great.
It also needs more lesbian sex.
Derek
04-27-2009, 03:29 AM
This Mulholland Drive argument would have been better if it had taken place via PMs. In it's current form it's alright, but it's not great.
Yeah, it can be kind of annoying when posters get into extended, digressive debates inside a thread when they should've moved to PMs, huh?
soitgoes...
04-27-2009, 08:13 AM
It's the tits. Watched it on Friday and again today (it gets better) - a remarkably complex, subtle, strange, tragic condemnation of modern Japan. It's the culmination, both visually and thematically, of everything Oshima's has tackled before, but it's scope is broader and his style perfectly honed and restrained. I knew he had a masterpiece in him, but this exceeded all expectations. Best film I've seen in a long time.
Sweet. Can't wait to read your extended thoughts on this one. I can't remember the last time I saw a score that high in your sig.
Qrazy
04-28-2009, 12:31 AM
Yeah, it can be kind of annoying when posters get into extended, digressive debates inside a thread when they should've moved to PMs, huh?
No, I like it a lot. My comment was multi-layered irony and sarcasm. SO THERE.
Sycophant
04-28-2009, 12:33 AM
OMG! Multiple layers, like an ogre!
Qrazy
04-28-2009, 12:33 AM
OMG! Multiple layers, like an ogre!
Or an onion owned by an ogre.
MadMan
04-28-2009, 02:41 AM
OMG! Multiple layers, like an ogre!I read "Ogre" as "Orgy." My mind's in the gutter 24/7 it seems.
Qrazy
04-28-2009, 02:47 AM
I read "Ogre" as "Orgy." My mind's in the gutter 24/7 it seems.
http://gallery.nofactzone.net/albums/userpics/harvey_birdman.JPG
Multiple Entendre! Haha!
MadMan
04-28-2009, 02:50 AM
http://gallery.nofactzone.net/albums/userpics/harvey_birdman.JPG
Multiple Entendre! Haha!It was unintentional, but yeah, sure.
And rep for the Harvey Birdman reference. Phil Ken Sebben is my hero.
transmogrifier
05-01-2009, 02:47 AM
Top 20 Directors
1. Stanley Kubrick 72 (7)
2. Alfred Hitchcock 66 (11)
3 =Akira Kurosawa 53 (8)
Steven Spielberg 53 (9)
5. Joel Coen 49 (7)
6. David Lynch 46 (7)
7. Woody Allen 44 (10)
8. Ingmar Bergman 40 (10)
9. Francis Ford Coppola 38 (4)
10. Martin Scorsese 37 (3)
11. Orson Welles 34 (3)
12= Billy Wilder 30 (4)
Federico Fellini 30 (3)
Sergio Leone 30 (4)
Werner Herzog 30 (6)
16= Charlie Chaplin 28 (6)
Robert Altman 28 (7)
18. Terrence Malick 27 (4)
19= Buster Keaton 26 (5)
PT Anderson 26 (4)
I couldn't decide how to calculate this list, but then I thought I'd go with the idea of the top director having the most overall impact on the viewing public, rather than worrying about rankings, ratings or whether they had large or small filmographies. So the number next to the name is simply the number of times that director appeared on a Top 100 list, regardless of the film, and the number in brackets is the number of his (yep, all guys) films that appeared on that master list.
MadMan
08-11-2010, 07:27 PM
I'm quite late, but here's my Top 10 for comparrison (eh, what the hell?):
10. Goodfellas (1990)
9. The Gold Rush (1925)
8. The Seventh Seal (1957)
7. Dr. Strangelove: Or How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Bomb (1964)
6. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (1966)
5. The Third Man (1949)
4. Lawrence of Arabia (1962)
3. Citizen Kane (1941)
2. The Godfather (1972)
1. Apocalypse Now(1979)
Maybe one day I'll make a Top 50. I did make a Top 20 a couple years ago, but it needs tweaking. A Top 100 is too much work :P
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