Watchmen

[Watashi]

Pictures have finally surfaced online:

You can check out what looks to be Rorschach here (http://rss.warnerbros.com/watchmen/WMD-22648_select.jpg).

[Henry Gale]

Wow, I definately like the look of that.

Any more pics?

[megladon8]

It definitely seems to have a good look to it.

[Sycophant]

Hmmm... I haven't declared on this incarnation of the site how I feel about this project.

The book is unfilmable. This project is doomed.

I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong, you know. Of course, that won't happen, because I am right.

It does look nice and expensive, though.

[Sven]

I don't think it's unfilmable so much as it is doomed to be inferior to the book. I mean, as a straightforward plot translation, an adaptation should be pretty simple.

[Grouchy]

I don't think it's unfilmable so much as it is doomed to be inferior to the book. I mean, as a straightforward plot translation, an adaptation should be pretty simple.
Yeah, but plot for plot's sake is nothing. Watchmen is nothing without its retro-active storytelling and complicated assembling of plot lines in different scales. There's not enough room in a movie under 8 hours to make the adaptation it deserves. You could make a good film by simply aiming lower, of course. No doubt about that. In short, they should've done the miniseries.

That pic looks good, by the way.

[megladon8]

More pics...

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7907/watchmen2ia0oz3.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=watchmen2ia0oz3.j pg)

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8679/watchmen3xe5yp0.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=watchmen3xe5yp0.j pg)

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3767/watchmen4in3qe4.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=watchmen4in3qe4.j pg)

[Sven]

Yeah, but plot for plot's sake is nothing. Watchmen is nothing without its retro-active storytelling and complicated assembling of plot lines in different scales. There's not enough room in a movie under 8 hours to make the adaptation it deserves. You could make a good film by simply aiming lower, of course. No doubt about that. In short, they should've done the miniseries.

All this gets a big "of course" from me. I'm just retorting to the "unfilmable" adjective. But I think, more and more, I can see a film adaptation being successful. Tell me, what is it about Watchmen that could not translate into cinema?

[Grouchy]

All this gets a big "of course" from me. I'm just retorting to the "unfilmable" adjective. But I think, more and more, I can see a film adaptation being successful. Tell me, what is it about Watchmen that could not translate into cinema?
Basically, everything annotated on this page (http://www.capnwacky.com/rj/watchmen/), which is one of many dedicated to the way in which Moore/Gibbons use the sequential art and the structure of a comic-book panel. In Issue 5, Fearful Symmetry, for example, the page layout is the same in the first and last page, in the second and the page before last, and progressively so until the end of the issue. It's a feat of storytelling, because the panels actually make dramatic sense beside the gimmick, and the structure mirrors the story and themes of the issue. In another issue, there's a pirate comic within the comic being read by a boy and it paralells the larger events occuring in the larger, umbrella fictional universe. Or the progressively faster way in which non-linear time jumps allow you to see a lifetime's story simultaneously, just as the protagonist of the issue, Dr. Manhattan, sees it.

I'd be hard-pressed to turn stuff like that into cinema. Basically, Watchmen is a masterpiece because it's a story that has been told perfectly in the medium that fits it best. Masterpieces should never be adapted or remade. It's pointless.

[number8]

My favorite aspect of the Fearful Symmetry chapter is the awesome symmetrical panel of an egg being broken and Moloch's death. Foreshadowing at its utmost finest.

[Grouchy]

My favorite aspect of the Fearful Symmetry chapter is the awesome symmetrical panel of an egg being broken and Moloch's death. Foreshadowing at its utmost finest.
I just looked that up in the trade. Fucking amazing. You can't do that with a movie.

[Sven]

Without a copy of the book in front of me, I'm afraid those annotations are fairly useless as an explanation. But what you're telling me, basically, is that the reason it will not be a success is because of structure of the comic panels themselves?

Now, I'm in no way saying that I expect the movie to be great (I don't) or that the comic is not a masterpiece (it is). But I still am not sure what you can do with panel layout that you can't with the frame and editing of a moving picture. Editing and structure and composition are all composites of film, and are able to complement thematic issues very adeptly. There are examples of stories told within movies that mirror and comment upon their "umbrella world".

To me, what seems like the most untranslatable element is going to be Doctor Manhattan (the Mars stuff especially). There's no way the CG is going to be satisfying.

[Grouchy]

But I still am not sure what you can do with panel layout that you can't with the frame and editing of a moving picture.

The egg thing that number8 just mentioned. At page 5, panel 4, there's an egg breaking in front of Moloch's terrified face. At page 24, panel 4, at the exact distance from the ending as the first panel was from the beginning, Moloch with the exact same expression and a bullet hole on his forehead. The whole issue is written with that symmetry in mind. Now, in a comic, you can look at both pages at the same time and see the paralell drawings. In a movie, there's no satisfactory way to watch two takes at a related running time at the same moment.

[number8]

No, he's saying that the movie cannot have the awe of having the story told so magnificently using said panel structures, because a movie can only show one frame at a time.

The Dr. Manhattan will be the most unfilmable, yes, but not because of the CG. He sees all time simultaneously, as to him they are going on at the same time. On a comic page, this is translated succinctly as we can step back and look at five or six different periods in his life going on at once in a single page grid. How do you convey that in a film?

[megladon8]

I think there are some pretty creative ways that these issues could be translated to film in an effective way which is just as awe-inspiring as the pages of the book.

It's just whether or not the creative team has the drive and freedom to do something totally different and "outside the box" with the film medium.

[Sven]

The egg thing that number8 just mentioned. At page 5, panel 4, there's an egg breaking in front of Moloch's terrified face. At page 24, panel 4, at the exact distance from the ending as the first panel was from the beginning, Moloch with the exact same expression and a bullet hole on his forehead. The whole issue is written with that symmetry in mind. Now, in a comic, you can look at both pages at the same time and see the paralell drawings. In a movie, there's no satisfactory way to watch two takes at a related running time at the same moment.


What does that have to do with anything, though? Seems like a neat thing you can do with a drawing, but obviously, you can pull off the same sort of recognition-recall effect in a movie. I ask you, 8, the same question: it's a neat effect that you can capture while drawing, but why is that so essential to its existence? Surely, the gimmick is not what makes Watchmen so memorable and great.

You are right about Manhattan's all-time-at-once thing. That'll be hard.

[Grouchy]

What does that have to do with anything, though?
Well, it's what you were asking for, an example of something you can do with panel layout that you can't do with moving film and editing.


Surely, the gimmick is not what makes Watchmen so memorable and great.
Yes it is. Except it's not just a gimmick, it's a Russian doll storytelling style spread with variants through the entire series. You could do a movie with the same story and themes, and it'd make as much sense as shooting a drama about the Guernica bombing and call it an adaptation of Picasso's painting.


You are right about Manhattan's all-time-at-once thing. That'll be hard.
Try impossible. There's art in time and art in space. Manhattan's mindframe and all-encompassing time view can be done in a space medium, but not in a time one. Even with split-screen, you watch one image after another. You can't see all of them at the same time.

[Ivan Drago]

I think the Dr. Manhattan stuff is my favorite part of the book so far.

That being said, I'm looking forward to this movie.

[number8]

http://rss.warnerbros.com/watchmen/watchmen.jpg

[Thirdmango]

Having literally just finished this book 6 hours ago, it's wacky for me to see it in movie form. I'm interested to see how they'll do it. The parts that I don't see how they will translate to film are the tidbits of information you get in between chapters. The newspaper clippings and the like.

[KK2.0]

I'm sure the film will be immensely inferior to the book, just like V, but i'm dead curious to watch the results. And in the end, Snyder is a competent storyteller, i'm sure it will be entertaining and reasonably faithful.

[bac0n]

All this talk about the movie reminds me that I need to dig up my copy of Watchmen and re-read it. It's been ages.

[Henry Gale]

First Look at Watchmen Characters!! (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=42657)

I guess that's one way of reminding everyone that it's now exactly one year away.

[megladon8]

Looks cool.

I have to say, though, that I imagine the costumes will evoke laughs from a lot of audience members who don't know the comics.

I know for certain my friends will find them ridiculous.

[Skitch]

I am really excited for this...I like Snyder.

[Sven]

I have to say, though, that I imagine the costumes will evoke laughs from a lot of audience members who don't know the comics.

Or how about laughs from the audience members who DO know the comics? I don't remember Night Owl looking all Batman Forever. I'm surprised they didn't give him nipples. Looks like they covered that with Ozymandias, though. Silly. Super silly.

[Grouchy]

I obviously remain cold about this movie because of the reasons mentioned, but those looks are all awesome.

[Morris Schæffer]

I'm not a fan of Watchmen, but apart from feeling a bit derivative, the designs are cool. Speaking of Watchmen, I have Absolute Watchmen and have made two attempts to read through it, but failed each time. No, not a knock on the material which, for a non-comic fan, actually reads wonderfully, but I keep getting sidetracked I suppose.

[Raiders]

I'm not a fan of Watchmen, but apart from feeling a bit derivative, the designs are cool. Speaking of Watchmen, I have Absolute Watchmen and have made two attempts to read through it, but failed each time. No, not a knock on the material which, for a non-comic fan, actually reads wonderfully, but I keep getting sidetracked I suppose.

Oy.

[Saya]

Ozymandias looks just wrong...

[Skitch]

Ozymandias looks just wrong...

Would you prefer tights and spandex?

[KK2.0]

Ozymandias looks just wrong...

echoes of Joel "batnipples" Schumacher?

the Comedian, Silk Spectre and Rorschach look great though

I guess Dr Manhattan didn't need a costume test.. *drumroll and crash*

[Saya]

Would you prefer tights and spandex?

I'd prefer something without nipples and fake muscles.

Ozy and Nite Owl costumes are way overproduced.

It's not just the costume though, I think the actor is miscast as well. He doesn't look right for the part.

[number8]

That Nite Owl cowl is just awful. What is he, 1930s Batman?

[Duncan]

Ozy looks like Niles Crane in a muscle suit.

[DavidSeven]

Abs built into costumes... why?

[number8]

Snyder said something long ago about satiring and referencing other comic book movies the way Watchmen did to old Charlton characters, so I'm guessing the Ozymandias nipples is his homage to Schumacher.

Still looks like ass anyway.

[megladon8]

I was going to say that Silk Spectre image looked nothing like Carla Cugino.

Then I remembered she's playing the original, and that's an image of the second one.

[number8]

I was kind of expecting Silk Spectre to be wearing silk, but that would be asking too much.

[lovejuice]

if anything, i like it.

[Wryan]

Mixed bag.

[lovejuice]

i kinda like Ozy. the buff-up costume stands in contrast to his childish face.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Most of 'em look good to me, especially The Comedian. Love it.

::shrugs::

[trotchky]

Would you prefer tights and spandex?

I would. It would work, thematically, in Watchmen's favor, as a deconstruction of the superhero "genre," rather than this un-ironic edgy Generic Super Hero Movie X crap.

[number8]

Ozymandias doesn't wear tights in the comic. He wears an armor with a robe over it.

[KK2.0]

Snyder said something long ago about satiring and referencing other comic book movies the way Watchmen did to old Charlton characters, so I'm guessing the Ozymandias nipples is his homage to Schumacher.

makes sense, hope he does not get too much carried away by that though, i'd be pissed if Watchmen turned into Mystery Men 2.

[Acapelli]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/business/media/26retail.html?_r=1&ref=business&oref=slogin

yesyesyeyesyesyes

[megladon8]

Jeffrey Dean Morgan sometimes looks an awful lot like Javier Bardem...

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7797/jdmfq0.jpg

[Raiders]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/business/media/26retail.html?_r=1&ref=business&oref=slogin

yesyesyeyesyesyes

Why yes? Sounds pretty silly to me. Its only relevance here seems like its connections within the plot of the Watchmen story. I don't really care about it beyond that. Will there still be sequences of it in the movie?

[Acapelli]

Why yes? Sounds pretty silly to me. Its only relevance here seems like its connections within the plot of the Watchmen story. I don't really care about it beyond that. Will there still be sequences of it in the movie?
i'm just happy that they're doing the black freighter sequences at all

[Grouchy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/business/media/26retail.html?_r=1&ref=business&oref=slogin

yesyesyeyesyesyes
As good a piece of news as that is, I'm just pissed the fuck off that they're even thinking of making this movie.

[number8]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/business/media/26retail.html?_r=1&ref=business&oref=slogin

That's fucking stupid.

[megladon8]

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7854/mmpicsr7.th.jpg (http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mmpicsr7.jpg)

[Sven]

That's fucking stupid.

Yeah.... it is.

[Acapelli]

how so?

other than "oh it's the watchmen, it shouldn't be made"

well it's being made, and i'm glad that it seems like Zach Snyder really wants to try to do it justice (operative word: try). i mean even if it is a spectacular failure, as most of you seem to have pre-determined it will be, at least they have decided to adapt all the aspects of the novel rather than half-assing it.

[Raiders]

how so?

other than "oh it's the watchmen, it shouldn't be made"

well it's being made, and i'm glad that it seems like Zach Snyder really wants to try to do it justice (operative word: try). i mean even if it is a spectacular failure, as most of you seem to have pre-determined it will be, at least they have decided to adapt all the aspects of the novel rather than half-assing it.

How does taking making the story-within-the-story of the original book into its own feature really add anything? It is solely, as the article suggests, a marketing ploy designed to make money. That's fine for them, but I don't really care.

[Sycophant]

Yeah, I don't take this as good news, for the reasons Raiders describes.

I don't know whether it will be feature-length or not, but either way, the story would have to be padded out quite a bit, I would think. And I don't really trust that to go over well at all.

[Acapelli]

How does taking making the story-within-the-story of the original book into its own feature really add anything? It is solely, as the article suggests, a marketing ploy designed to make money. That's fine for them, but I don't really care.

and then an “ultimate” edition in which the two are edited together into one megamovie.
yes, it is a marketing ploy, but to say it's solely a marketing ploy is to hold a slightly cynical viewpoint. watchmen isn't a big property on the level of spider-man and batman.

[Raiders]

I see. I missed that in the article. So what I'm getting in the theater will excise all that material? I guess I'll just wait for the DVD then.

[Grouchy]

Yeah, on second thought, if Tales of the Black Freighter is not inserted into the main narrative, it makes zero sense to have it there at all. It's not like it's an EXCELLENT pirate tale. It's a pulp metaphor that paralells the storyline.

[number8]

That's the thing. Tales of the Black Freighter and Under the Hood, by themselves, are useless. It's a fucking stupid idea to watch them separately. They're parallel stories, for god's sake. That's the whole point and intent of Black Freighter, to mirror what's happening with the Crimebusters and provide a raw survivalist and savage context to them surviving the political crisis. Either throw that out completely or edit them together to make the argument. People are supposed to watch Watchmen and then 5 days later buy an anime on DVD that vaguely mirrors certain scenes from a movie they saw in theaters days ago? What the hell is the point?

[number8]

Wrote something rather lengthy about this (http://www.justpressplay.net/viewarticle/why-bother-watching-watchmen-in-theaters/). Apparently I'm more passionate about this project than I really care to be. *sigh*

[Sycophant]

Wrote something rather lengthy about this (http://www.justpressplay.net/viewarticle/why-bother-watching-watchmen-in-theaters/). Apparently I'm more passionate about this project than I really care to be. *sigh*
I sympathize. I feel the same way every time I get on the topic of Star Wars.

[number8]

So, saw the trailer before TDK.

Eeeh. The visuals look impressive, but it's still using that fast-motion-slow-motion editing shit that I can't fucking stand. And they keep hiding Dr. Manhattan's dick in a dark shadow that just appears on his crotch for no reason. Lame.

[megladon8]

So, saw the trailer before TDK.

Eeeh. The visuals look impressive, but it's still using that fast-motion-slow-motion editing shit that I can't fucking stand. And they keep hiding Dr. Manhattan's dick in a dark shadow that just appears on his crotch for no reason. Lame.


Did they also show the Terminator: Salvation trailer?

I'm actually more interested in that than Watchmen.

[number8]

No, because I saw it on IMAX, so only IMAX trailers. This and Harry Potter.

[Watashi]

So, saw the trailer before TDK.

Eeeh. The visuals look impressive, but it's still using that fast-motion-slow-motion editing shit that I can't fucking stand. And they keep hiding Dr. Manhattan's dick in a dark shadow that just appears on his crotch for no reason. Lame.
I'd highly doubt they show Doc's dick in a trailer.

I just reread Watchmen yesterday, and I'm pretty pumped if nothing except a good performance out of Jackie Earle Haley.

[number8]

I'd highly doubt they show Doc's dick in a trailer.

I just reread Watchmen yesterday, and I'm pretty pumped if nothing except a good performance out of Jackie Earle Haley.

Duh! I didn't even think of that. Maybe they'l show it in the movie, but the way it looks in the trailer was ridiculous. His crotch is just dark when the rest of him is bright blue.

Jackie Earle Haley sounded like he was trying to imitate Bale's Batman voice.

[Silencio]

Harry Potter.Was this just the blank screen, line of dialogue, and title I read about, or an actual teaser?

[number8]

Was this just the blank screen, line of dialogue, and title I read about, or an actual teaser?

Just the blank screen and title. Everyone laughed at how pointless it was.

[Qrazy]

Fast-motion-slow-motion editing shit that I can't fucking stand.

Agreed that style is truly awful. I don't mind regular motion to slow motion and back to regular that much.

[megladon8]

Any word on what this will be rated?

The comic book would be an R, and they managed to do great business with 300 despite its R rating.

I would hope they wouldn't cower under the almighty PG-13.

[Watashi]

Any word on what this will be rated?

The comic book would be an R, and they managed to do great business with 300 despite its R rating.

I would hope they wouldn't cower under the almighty PG-13.
Snyder has said it will be rated R and close to 3 hours in length.

[megladon8]

Snyder has said it will be rated R and close to 3 hours in length.


Oh cool.

Well, I hope it's not just visual flare. I enjoyed 300 as a loud-and-mean piece of popcorn entertainment, but looking at it deeper in any way hurts the brain.

I really don't think this one will do well at all, unless it has a marketing campaign like The Dark Knight. Not enough people know the "Watchmen" book, and I bet the trailers will get a lot of laughs due to the admittedly silly costumes.

[number8]

So, my mistake. Seeing the trailer a second time, the weird dark spot on his crotch was his speedo. Heh

[megladon8]

Last night I accidentally told my friend that Keanu Reeves was playing Manhattan.

I'd totally forgotten that Billy Crudup replaced him.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5457/07failwm0.jpg

[Morris Schæffer]

trailer:

http://www.empireonline.com/video/watchmen/

[Watashi]

trailer:

http://www.empireonline.com/video/watchmen/
It LOOKS like a Watchmen movie, but somehow it just doesn't feel like one.

[Ivan Drago]

trailer:

http://www.empireonline.com/video/watchmen/

It stops at 0:38. At least for me.

EDIT: Ah no wonder. It got removed.

[Henry Gale]

Quick! Before it gets pulled!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NhzTfi10lHY

[Ezee E]

Quick! Before it gets pulled!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NhzTfi10lHY
Gone.

[Henry Gale]

I'd say just keep searching it on YouTube and then sort by date. If you find one that works, keep the window open, 'cause you may not be able to go back later.

I actually have to say the trailer was somewhat impressive. Mostly in the Dr. Manhattan and more visual stuff (especially the final shot). We'll see how it all works together next year though.

[Sven]

Holy moly, this looks terrible.

[rocus]

http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/watchmen/trailer

[Winston*]

Ha, they used the Batman & Robin Smashing Pumpkins song.

[Melville]

Holy moly, this looks terrible.
I would have gone with "Sweet fancy Moses," but yeah, that looks nigh unwatchable. The shiny imagery, reveling in action, sexy women, etc. look embarrassingly awful, and they're all completely at odds with the tone and themes of the graphic novel.

[Lasse]

I know nothing about the graphic novel, and that looks alright to me.:|

[Saya]

That looked better than I thought it would. The costumes still look weak though and the guy playing Veidt seems all wrong for the part.

[Sven]

I would have gone with "Sweet fancy Moses," but yeah, that looks nigh unwatchable. The shiny imagery, reveling in action, sexy women, etc. look embarrassingly awful, and they're all completely at odds with the tone and themes of the graphic novel.

Well, isn't trying to make a comment on superhero movies or something like that? A la the comic's commentary on superhero comics? So isn't the awfulness intentional? [cue trans]

[megladon8]

Ha, they used the Batman & Robin Smashing Pumpkins song.


No, I think the Pumpkins song from Batman & Robin was a different one.

"The Everlasting Gaze", wasn't it?

I actually thought this song was quite appropriate.

Looks like it'll be a visual treat with nothing else going for it. I guess Zack Snyder has found his schtick.

[Raiders]

Eh, I think there's potential there. The action looks way flashy, and the characters far too attractive, but I do sort of think that based on what we know of the film's stance as a commentary on current superhero films, it could work (though I wonder, if this is true, isn't Snyder harpooning his own 300 techniques?). I think it would have been better rather than ape superhero movie trends to simply forgo them altogether, thus making the anti-superohero superhero movie. But, it's probably the route Snyder is more comfortable with.

[megladon8]

Man, watching that trailer again, I really see how that slow-fast-slow stuff annoys number8.

And this movie is 3 hours long?

With that much slow motion, there's probably only a good 45 minutes of footage in the whole thing.

[number8]

Eh, I think there's potential there. The action looks way flashy, and the characters far too attractive, but I do sort of think that based on what we know of the film's stance as a commentary on current superhero films, it could work (though I wonder, if this is true, isn't Snyder harpooning his own 300 techniques?). I think it would have been better rather than ape superhero movie trends to simply forgo them altogether, thus making the anti-superohero superhero movie. But, it's probably the route Snyder is more comfortable with.

Well, when they showed the trailer before TDK, this chick sitting next to me saw Nite Owl's drop down shot and went "Omigod! That guy looks like Batmaaan!" So I guess it worked.

[Winston*]

No, I think the Pumpkins song from Batman & Robin was a different one.

"The Everlasting Gaze", wasn't it?

Well, you'd be wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_Is_the_Beginning_Is_th e_End

I suppose if you want to argue semantics it's a different version of the same song used in Batman and Robin.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Regarding the slow-fast-slow...on the one hand, it's a bit overdone. On the other hand, it gives some of those visuals time to breathe as almost-still-images. That shot of the Comedian hitting the glass is perfectly appropriate.

I'm really looking forward to this.

As an ardent fan of the original story, though, I have to wonder about two things:

1) Are they keeping the alien squid?
2) Are they killing Ozymandias?

I side with the comic on both issues.

[megladon8]

Those are good questions, DaMU, and I wonder about them myself.

I was also wondering what the time period is for this movie.

Did they end up going with the original 1980s? Or is it present day? Future?

[number8]

Everything's exactly as it is in the comic.

It's the 80s. There's the squid monster. Ozy dies.

[megladon8]

Everything's exactly as it is in the comic.


OK, that's good to know.

When I saw the WTC in the trailer, I wasn't sure if they were pulling some "alternate future" type stuff.

[Saya]

Everything's exactly as it is in the comic.

It's the 80s. There's the squid monster. Ozy dies.

Did I miss something?

Isn't it Rorschach who dies? I thought Ozy survived the whole thing...

[MadMan]

I'll admit I haven't read the graphic novel yet. The trailer that was shown before TDK though had me gasping in amazement. It looks pretty stunning to me, but I have no idea how everything else aside from the beautiful visuals will turn out.

[Dukefrukem]

wow.. the music with that trailer gave me chills....

[Raiders]

Did I miss something?

Isn't it Rorschach who dies? I thought Ozy survived the whole thing...

I thought so too.

[D_Davis]

That looks pretty badass to me.

[Sven]

That looks pretty badass to me.

Are you sure you don't mean to say that it looks both bad and ass?

[D_Davis]

Are you sure you don't mean to say that it looks both bad and ass?


It looks boss.

[Sven]

It looks boss.

By which to say you think it looks like something dull, imaginationless, and, while good with people, not terribly considerate of the feelings of those with whom it comes in contact?

[D_Davis]

By which to say you think it looks like something dull, imaginationless, and, while good with people, not terribly considerate of the feelings of those with whom it comes in contact?

It looks tight.

[Sven]

It looks tight.

By which you mean to say that it looks stifling and/or suffocating?

[D_Davis]

By which you mean to say that it looks stifling and/or suffocating?

It looks bodacious.

Best American movie since The Dark Knight.

[Sven]

It looks bodacious.

Best American movie since The Dark Knight.

I agree.

[ledfloyd]

poor Alan Moore. he'll never have a good movie made of his work.

[D_Davis]

I agree.

That was a stimulating conversation we had. I'm spent, but I'm glad we came to an agreement.

[Grouchy]

Did I miss something?

Isn't it Rorschach who dies? I thought Ozy survived the whole thing...
Exactly. I think it was just a typo.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I was seriously in awe of how bad this looks. I don't know, completely uninterested. I should probably read the source material, but the trailer did nothing for me.

[Dukefrukem]

It looks bodacious.

Best American movie since The Dark Knight.

I loled

[eternity]

Poster (http://www.neoavant.com/watchmenreal.jpg)

[origami_mustache]

just watched trailer...some of the effects just look crappy, but i liked the way the trailer was edited...I am interesting in cutting trailers myself.

[MadMan]

I bet the only reason I thought that trailer was awesome (and that I've seen it twice since I last saw it when I went to see TDK) because I haven't read the graphic novel. But what if I read the book and then think the movie will still be awesome? If that happens I'm hoping heads will explode or something cool to that effect. :P

[Ivan Drago]

After seeing the trailer before TDK, I'm REEEEEALLY looking forward to this movie.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I bet the only reason I thought that trailer was awesome (and that I've seen it twice since I last saw it when I went to see TDK) because I haven't read the graphic novel. But what if I read the book and then think the movie will still be awesome? If that happens I'm hoping heads will explode or something cool to that effect. :P

Read.

The.

Book.

[ledfloyd]

i see nothing that sets this trailer apart. it seems completely generic to me. the costumes (with a few exceptions) and editing look terrible. what am i missing?

[megladon8]

I agree a few of the costumes are terrible, but seeing the trailer on the big screen was pretty "WOW" inducing.

I'm not excited.

[EyesWideOpen]

The first chapter of the Watchmen motion comics is up at Itunes for free if anyone is interested. It's pretty awesome.

[Ezee E]

Saw the preview. Looks just okay. I haven't read the Watchmen either.

[origami_mustache]

i see nothing that sets this trailer apart. it seems completely generic to me. the costumes (with a few exceptions) and editing look terrible. what am i missing?

eh I'd say the pacing is much different than most others.

[number8]

To all you folks who haven't read Watchmen, if you read it and think "What's the big deal?", read it again. And again. Then discuss it with people who have read it 5-10 times (ie. moi :P).

I want to see if I can convince you to agree that the movie can't succeed. Just because. Tee hee.

[EyesWideOpen]

To all you folks who haven't read Watchmen, if you read it and think "What's the big deal?", read it again. And again. Then discuss it with people who have read it 5-10 times (ie. moi :P).

I want to see if I can convince you to agree that the movie can't succeed. Just because. Tee hee.

I own the Absolute Edition of Watchmen and have read it multiple times. It's probably the best piece of literature i've ever read and I definitely think a movie version can succeed. Whether or not Snyder's version will i'm not sure but everything I've read and seen about it has been good enough that i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[EyesWideOpen]

Here's a neat link which shows some comparisons from the book to the movie trailer.

http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/article/watchmen_trailer_to_comic_comp arison/

[Melville]

I mostly agree with 8. So much of the comic's success rests on its taking advantage of the comic book form. The written supplements rely on appearing in a book, the "fearful symmetry" and "Darkness of Mere Being" chapters rely on having multiple instants on display at the same time, the commentary on superhero psychology relies on the history of the medium, etc. A movie could try to do something equivalent to each of these, e.g. including clips from a documentary rather than a book, somehow taking advantage of film as a sequence of instants rather than a simultaneity of instants, commenting on some common aspects of film genre, etc., but then why bother making it a Watchmen movie?

[Sven]

I think an adaptation is totally possible, because mostly it isn't the meta-nature of the comic or the structure of its layouts that I find most compelling (I think the symmetry in the Symmetry chapter to be, like, so nothing special). At its heart, past all the "art", it's exists, to me, as a fantastic story with universal repercussions.

[EyesWideOpen]

I think an adaptation is totally possible, because mostly it isn't the meta-nature of the comic or the structure of its layouts that I find most compelling (I think the symmetry in the Symmetry chapter to be, like, so nothing special). At its heart, past all the "art", it's exists, to me, as a fantastic story with universal repercussions.

Exactly. Of course it's impossible to make an exact replica of the comic book in movie form but an adaptation of the "story" is entirely possible and i think could be done quite well.

[Melville]

I think an adaptation is totally possible, because mostly it isn't the meta-nature of the comic or the structure of its layouts that I find most compelling (I think the symmetry in the Symmetry chapter to be, like, so nothing special). At its heart, past all the "art", it's exists, to me, as a fantastic story with universal repercussions.
I like the story well enough, but the way it's built out of interconnected layers is what makes it great in my eyes. The fact that the pirate comic, which so perfectly (if a bit too transparently) dovetails with the main plot and reinforces its "universal repercussions", won't be in the theatrical release of the film seems like a strong indicator that most of the interesting things in the comic won't make it into the film. (Especially since the pirate comic could so easily be translated into a movie-within-the-movie. Leaving it out purely due to time constraints just suggests that a theatrical release is a bad idea.)

[Sven]

I like the story well enough, but the way it's built out of interconnected layers is what makes it great in my eyes. The fact that the pirate comic, which so perfectly (if a bit too transparently) dovetails with the main plot and reinforces its "universal repercussions", won't be in the theatrical release of the film, seems like a strong indicator that most of the interesting things in the comic won't make it into the film. (Especially since the pirate comic could so easily be translated into a movie-within-the-movie. Leaving it out purely due to time constraints just suggests that a theatrical release is a bad idea.)

I agree that the pirate parallel is muy interesting, but I don't think it's impossible to do even that in a film. The fact that it's being released as a supplement indicates to me that Snyder has no idea what he's dealing with.

[Skitch]

Everything's exactly as it is in the comic.

It's the 80s. There's the squid monster. Ozy dies.


I heard a terrible rumor that...

...NY will still be destroyed, but no squidy. I hope it wrong...

...you hear that for sure? God I hope so.


Also, for the record, I think this movie will suffer...from those going to theater that have never read the book. Those that will be expecting comic book whathaveyou and getting...well...Watchmen. Those of us that know what is coming will love it (give or take the fanboy/ultrastrict movie snob), but given the material, I find it atypical. Expectations may play a big role with this film.

[Sycophant]

Actually, I think the whole thing looks too self-consciously pretty and design-y to serve the material. Though it does look pretty.

[megladon8]

Alan Moore goes on record...er...again... (http://io9.com/5026980/watchmen-creator-ignores-movie)saying he's going to "ignore" the movie.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Actually, I think the whole thing looks too self-consciously pretty and design-y to serve the material. Though it does look pretty.

Seeing it on the big screen yesterday, I whole-heartedly agree.

[number8]

I think an adaptation is totally possible, because mostly it isn't the meta-nature of the comic or the structure of its layouts that I find most compelling (I think the symmetry in the Symmetry chapter to be, like, so nothing special). At its heart, past all the "art", it's exists, to me, as a fantastic story with universal repercussions.

But even foregoing all that (which is a shame, because it's part of Watchmen's initial design as a showcase for what comics are capable of that no other storytelling medium is--and that's reflected in Dr. Manhattan's power), there's also the fact that, like Melville said, a lot of it plays with the history and conventions of superhero comics. The reason it had such an impact was because of its expansion and/or turning-the-head of the comics people were accustomed to (Veidt's plot, for instance--or Rorschach's "origin", taking the whole "criminals forced me to act" convention into "society in general is evil, forcing me to act," which was unheard of for a superhero). Nevermind also how Moore based every single character on existing DC Comics characters. This is why I was initially impressed that Snyder said he was going to use Watchmen to satirize the comic book movie craze, but I don't have confidence that he'll pull it off.

I'm not denying that on the surface Watchmen's plot and storytelling is compelling enough to commend, because it totally is, it's brilliant... but the truth is that I get no joy out of seeing my comics animated (by live action or otherwise). The fact that there's no way a movie (or even an HBO series like some fans would suggest) adaptation could match what the comic accomplished says enough for me--what the fuck is the point?

And before we say "it brings in a new audience", let me just say that A) I don't necessarily think this has been true with comic book movies, and B) Who gives a shit? The movie's still the same.

[Acapelli]

seeing the trailer finally got my brother to read watchmen, after i had been badgering him for months a while back

[Acapelli]

and yeah i know one case does not make an argument, but i think the new audience thing may be a factor (if not major) since it's a self-contained. there isn't multiple decades of continuity that may put off some to picking up a comic book like in the case of seeing a film with batman or spider-man

[number8]

and yeah i know one case does not make an argument, but i think the new audience thing may be a factor (if not major) since it's a self-contained. there isn't multiple decades of continuity that may put off some to picking up a comic book like in the case of seeing a film with batman or spider-man

But that's less appealing to me. With legacy characters I can look forward to directors having their interpretation of the character's decades of history. I don't really like Burton's take on Batman but I do think it's a valid interpretation, and I like the fact that you can have both Burton and Nolan create vastly different films based on the same character. And the stories can be original.

With books like Watchmen, 300, V for Vendetta and shit, it's just the same fucking story retold in a different medium. They're both visual mediums. My main problem, I guess, is that with a novel you can give the same book to two different directors and they'll have different visual interpretations because it's in a way a blank canvas. With comics, it's already a visual medium--and a perfectly good one at that--and to try and transplant that into film is... Well, it's boring.

[Dead & Messed Up]

But that's less appealing to me. With legacy characters I can look forward to directors having their interpretation of the character's decades of history. I don't really like Burton's take on Batman but I do think it's a valid interpretation, and I like the fact that you can have both Burton and Nolan create vastly different films based on the same character. And the stories can be original.

With books like Watchmen, 300, V for Vendetta and shit, it's just the same fucking story retold in a different medium. They're both visual mediums. My main problem, I guess, is that with a novel you can give the same book to two different directors and they'll have different visual interpretations because it's in a way a blank canvas. With comics, it's already a visual medium--and a perfectly good one at that--and to try and transplant that into film is... Well, it's boring.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2213/2241159742_dac7f13ab6.jpg

Boring? Number8, Number8,

::shakes head::

This is an exciting opportunity for both DC Comics and Warner Brothers affiliates! For years, fans of Watchmen have been an untapped resource, but now, thanks to the proficient direction of commercially successful director Zach Snyder, we can now plug into that vital revenue stream. The new venture is guaranteed to cume at least $100 mil before we even factor in merchandising, ancillary rights, rentals, pay cable.

Hell! This is child's stuff until the DVD comes out. Did I mention there's a DVD? Hell, there's five! The theatrical cut, the Black Freighter by itself, the "Under the Hood" documentary, the extended director's cut, and the ultimate cut with the Black Freighter segments placed back in! You know how many trips to Tijuana that will buy? ROI will be through the roof, stockholders will be happy.

Boring? What's boring about any of that? It's a lot more exciting for us than reading what posters on a fringe forum happen to think about our business products. I'm sorry, "films." Yes, our "films."

Hahahahahahahaha!

Hold on, I need to Blackberry Lara Ziskin.

[Qrazy]

Regarding the slow-fast-slow...on the one hand, it's a bit overdone. On the other hand, it gives some of those visuals time to breathe as almost-still-images. That shot of the Comedian hitting the glass is perfectly appropriate.


That's why regular to slow to regular works ok but fast to slow to fast just looks like shit.

[Watashi]

Pin-Up Art of Sally Jupiter from the film (slightly NSFW):

http://www.aintitcool.com/images2008/gugino.jpg

[Ivan Drago]

Hell! This is child's stuff until the DVD comes out. Did I mention there's a DVD? Hell, there's five! The theatrical cut, the Black Freighter by itself, the "Under the Hood" documentary, the extended director's cut, and the ultimate cut with the Black Freighter segments placed back in! You know how many trips to Tijuana that will buy? ROI will be through the roof, stockholders will be happy.

Actually the Under The Hood documentary is on the DVD with Tales of the Black Freighter. But has the ultimate cut been officially announced?

[megladon8]

Was there ever an explanation in the comic as to how/why Roschach's mask moves and changes?

Or was it just one o' dem tings?

[Raiders]

Was there ever an explanation in the comic as to how/why Roschach's mask moves and changes?

Or was it just one o' dem tings?

Wiki says!


At about the same time, he found work as an unskilled garment worker; noting later to a prison psychiatrist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatrist) "Job bearable but unpleasant. Had to handle female clothing". Working in this capacity, in 1962 he grew fascinated by a new fabric made possible through technologies developed by Doctor Manhattan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Manhattan). Two viscous liquids, one black and one white, between two layers of latex, continually shifted in response to heat and pressure, forming symmetrical patterns like a Rorschach inkblot test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_inkblot_test) while never mixing to produce a grey colour. Kovacs learned of the fabric when a young woman chose not to buy a dress which she had ordered made from it; subsequently Kovacs took the dress home and experimented with the fabric. He learned to cut the fabric and maintain the seal using heated scissors.

[megladon8]

Wiki says!


Wonderful, thank you!

I actually think I might start re-reading this book tonight...it's been like, 3 1/2 years...

[ledfloyd]

yeah, seeing this trailer on the big screen changed nothing. i'd like to say i'm going to be ignoring it along with alan moore. but i know i will have to check it out on dvd.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Actually the Under The Hood documentary is on the DVD with Tales of the Black Freighter. But has the ultimate cut been officially announced?

Not officially, but it seems like a no-brainer. Give it six months to a year after the DVD. Probably a year, for the stocking stuffer potential.

[Grouchy]

The trailer looks as good as a Watchmen adaptation can look, minus the song. The song sucks. But this statement sums up how I still feel about it:


I talked to [director] Terry Gilliam in the '80s, and he asked me how I would make Watchmen into a film. I said, ''Well actually, Terry, if anybody asked me, I would have said, 'I wouldn't.''' And I think that Terry [who aborted his attempted adaptation of the book] eventually came to agree with me. There are things that we did with Watchmen that could only work in a comic, and were indeed designed to show off things that other media can't do.

[EyesWideOpen]

I'm not a Pumpkins fan, but i liked the song so much i immediately bought it off itunes.

[megladon8]

Anyone had any luck finding that specific version of the Pumpkins song?

The original is much faster and heavier, but I like the one from this trailer more.

[EyesWideOpen]

Anyone had any luck finding that specific version of the Pumpkins song?

The original is much faster and heavier, but I like the one from this trailer more.

That specific one from the watchmen trailer is on itunes. The faster version is called The End is the Beginning is the End. The one from the Watchmen trailer is called The Beginning is the End is the Beginning. Their both available on the Smashing Pumpkins Rarities & B-Sides album.

[megladon8]

That specific one from the watchmen trailer is on itunes. The faster version is called The End is the Beginning is the End. The one from the Watchmen trailer is called The Beginning is the End is the Beginning. Their both available on the Smashing Pumpkins Rarities & B-Sides album.


Oh, cool, thanks!

[EyesWideOpen]

Oh, cool, thanks!

No problem. I listened to the slow version on itunes, clicked on it to buy it and accidently clicked on the fast version which was right next to it and purchased it not knowing their were two versions. So now I have both.

[megladon8]

No problem. I listened to the slow version on itunes, clicked on it to buy it and accidently clicked on the fast version which was right next to it and purchased it not knowing their were two versions. So now I have both.


It's a great song.

Speaking of music from the Schumacher Batman movies, I also really like the song "Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me" by U2.

[EyesWideOpen]

Also since no one responded, if you have itunes download the Watchmen motion comic. It's free and if your a fan of the book i don't see how you wouldn't enjoy it.

[megladon8]

Also since no one responded, if you have itunes download the Watchmen motion comic. It's free and if your a fan of the book i don't see how you wouldn't enjoy it.


Is it similar to how they're doing the TV series of "Invincible"?

[number8]

Also since no one responded, if you have itunes download the Watchmen motion comic. It's free and if your a fan of the book i don't see how you wouldn't enjoy it.

Well, I own the book, so I prefer reading it than having it read to me with crude animations. I downloaded it and turned it off after 2 minutes.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Well, I own the book, so I prefer reading it than having it read to me with crude animations. I downloaded it and turned it off after 2 minutes.

Same here. Did nothing for me.

[EyesWideOpen]

You guys are too cool for everything.

[Dead & Messed Up]

You guys are too cool for everything.

It's well-produced, but I'd just rather read the comic, since the visuals are so close, and the dialogue is identical. Brings up the question of why I'm looking forward to the film, since the same principle applies. To that, I say . . .

::runs away::

[MadMan]

Read.

The.

Book.

I

Will

Eventually

:P

Its not like I don't have a year to do so.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I

Will

Eventually

:P

Its not like I don't have a year to do so.

Fine. When you do read it, you'll regret not having read it sooner. Like back in July, when DaMU told you to.

[Skitch]

I

Will

Eventually

:P

Its not like I don't have a year to do so.


You don't have a year to do so! :)

[Lurker]

I just read Newsarama's report (http://www.newsarama.com/film/080725-comic-con-watchmen.html) on Comic-Con's Watchmen panel. Something Zack Snyder said caught my eye;


“Everyone likes Rorschach the best, so that rules him out. Everyone likes the Comedian because he’s kind of a...bad ass. Those two I can’t vote for.”

Uh... what? I'm bothered that the director of Watchmen thinks The Comedian is 'bad ass'. Although this shouldn't really come off as a surprise considering it's from the visionary director of 300.

[megladon8]

Yes, attempted rape and beating up a female coworker have "badass" written all over them.

[Ezee E]

Yes, attempted rape and beating up a female coworker have "badass" written all over them.
::walks away quietly::

:)

Still haven't read it. Maybe I'll check it out after I finish Blood Meridian.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Yes, attempted rape and beating up a female coworker have "badass" written all over them.

I wouldn't call the Comedian a badass either, but I won't deny that he has badass elements to him.

[eternity]

Yes, attempted rape and beating up a female coworker have "badass" written all over them.
He's bad, he's an ass, it works out, doesn't it?

"Badass" is a very ambiguous term.

[MadMan]

You don't have a year to do so! :)Okay, more like 9 months or so. Its still plenty of time.


Fine. When you do read it, you'll regret not having read it sooner. Like back in July, when DaMU told you to.:lol: Sure. Whatever :P

[Watashi]

The new trailer is orgasmic. The best footage shown at Comic Con. It will make the non-believers believe.

And yes, I would say the Comedian is a badass.

[Sycophant]

The new trailer is orgasmic. The best footage shown at Comic Con. It will make the non-believers believe.
I don't believe this.


And yes, I would say the Comedian is a badass.Yeah, I think his entire persona is constructed around the concept of badass.

[Barty]

The new trailer is orgasmic. The best footage shown at Comic Con.



This is true.

[Ezee E]

I'll only believe it if 8 agrees.

[megladon8]

I'll only believe it if 8 agrees.


...:|

[Teh Sausage]

I haven't read it in a long time, but can someone tell me what was the deep, thematic reason why 'Fearful Symmetry' was structured the way it was? Why is it essential they have to show the chapter in that way?

[Grouchy]

I haven't read it in a long time, but can someone tell me what was the deep, thematic reason why 'Fearful Symmetry' was structured the way it was? Why is it essential they have to show the chapter in that way?
Well, every episode has its own narrative gimmick.

I don't remember everything that happens in "Fearful Symmetry", but I believe it involved a lot of investigation by Roscharch and him being captured by the police. I'll check it out when I get home.

[number8]

The new trailer was pretty impressive. It's not orgasmic, but definitely shows that Snyder really uses cinematic imageries to translate the panels. Loved the Nite Owl/Silk Spectre sex dream sequence in front of the mushroom cloud.

[megladon8]

Bob Stencil interviews Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Malin Akerman. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRTuvWUGr3g)

[number8]

New character posters (http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/movie-news/41-news/3785-new-qwatchmenq-promo-posters.html)

[Dead & Messed Up]

I haven't read it in a long time, but can someone tell me what was the deep, thematic reason why 'Fearful Symmetry' was structured the way it was? Why is it essential they have to show the chapter in that way?

Cause it's awesome.

[number8]

Cause it's awesome.

It mirrors Rorschach's face, and the converging point in the middle (the big splash page of you-know-who, slightly out of place in a Rorschach chapter) is a big, big foreshadowing to the answer or Rorschach's mystery.

[Dead & Messed Up]

It mirrors Rorschach's face, and the converging point in the middle (the big splash page of you-know-who, slightly out of place in a Rorschach chapter) is a big, big foreshadowing to the answer or Rorschach's mystery.

Well, none of that makes it essential. But if we took out everything that wasn't completely essential to Watchmen, we wouldn't have all the stuff that makes it so great.

[number8]

Well, then I'd argue it was essential then. What's essential? Just the narrative? The deconstruction of superhero? Those little gimmicks made Watchmen the revered book that it is. Like you said, if we take all those out, we're missing a part of why the book was so influential. So yes, it is absolutely essential.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Well, then I'd argue it was essential then. What's essential? Just the narrative? The deconstruction of superhero? Those little gimmicks made Watchmen the revered book that it is. Like you said, if we take all those out, we're missing a part of why the book was so influential. So yes, it is absolutely essential.

I brought up that point mostly because Teh Sausage made it sound like the use of symmetry doesn't have some deep, vital reason for existing; that it is really just a structural device, rather than a storytelling imperative. But as you point out, the formal experimentation of Watchmen is also vital to its success.

[Melville]

I haven't read it in a long time, but can someone tell me what was the deep, thematic reason why 'Fearful Symmetry' was structured the way it was? Why is it essential they have to show the chapter in that way?
- It reflects on Rorschach's character. The layout mimics his mask, but it also mimics his obsession with instilling order; and just as he hides his feral nature behind the ordered symmetry of his mask, the story that reveals his true nature hides behind the ordered symmetry of its layout.

- It makes the comic's narrative structure explicit in its physical design. This create an ironic distance between the reader and the story by making the reader aware of the fact that the story is something designed (i.e. something artificial).

- It plays into the comic's larger thematic and formal strategy. Throughout the comic, we see the story through various levels of formal structure: panel to panel, we get the constant visual puns where dialogue from one scene carries over to another and comments ironically on it; issue to issue we get structures such as the symmetric layout in this issue and the play with time in Manhattan's issue; over the entire series, we get the pirate comic and the backup material that continually weave through the story and comment on it. Together, all of these structures, and their commentary on one another, make the entire narrative into an elaborate crystaline structure in which the reader can see the whole as a single unit (rather than a typical narrative progression) while simultaneously seeing each of the unit's facets and their interrelation. In addition to being interesting for its own sake, and showing off some of comics' formal capabilities, it adds to the sense of seeing an overview of these characters' lives, and it emphasizes the inextricable relationships between those lives.

[dreamdead]

Is it just me or is the Silk Spectre's head seemingly oddly proportioned in comparison to the rest of her frame in the majority of pics released thus far. Something about the way they're shooting her feels so artificial...

[megladon8]

Is it just me or is the Silk Spectre's head seemingly oddly proportioned in comparison to the rest of her frame in the majority of pics released thus far. Something about the way they're shooting her feels so artificial...


Ha! I was just saying to Jen last night that I find Malin Akerman to have a sort of "bobble head" look to her.

[number8]

I just realized my least favorite part about all this.

Watchmen: The Movie: The Video Game.

[SirNewt]

I just realized my least favorite part about all this.

Watchmen: The Movie: The Video Game.

It will be the most marvelously underfunded, misguided production of a piece of merchandise that has no target audience and no feasible relevance as an adaptation, ever.

[SirNewt]

I can hardly wait for the Night Owl beat'em up stages.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I just realized my least favorite part about all this.

Watchmen: The Movie: The Video Game.

Button-mash to charge up Nite Owl's sexual potency!

:lol:

[number8]

Yeah. Or play as Rorschach and pick the right answers to drive your shrink crazy!!

[D_Davis]

I just realized my least favorite part about all this.

Watchmen: The Movie: The Video Game.

Dude, imagine if Suda51 made the Watchmen game, all Killer 7-like. That would be awesome.

[SirNewt]

Dude, imagine if Suda51 made the Watchmen game, all Killer 7-like. That would be awesome.


Or it would be totally fucked up. Win, win I guess.

[D_Davis]

Or it would be totally fucked up. Win, win I guess.

Exactly.

[SirNewt]

Exactly.

Let me rethink this. . .

It's actually more like they're the same thing.

[eternity]

The thought of a Suda 51 Watchmen game suddenly made me have to throw my pants in the wash.

[megladon8]

This is a pic from the premiere of Tropic Thunder, and I think RDJ looks like The Comedian here.

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/162/puresexrdjtropicru8.jpg

[Skitch]

Wow, does he ever.

[Ezee E]

Wow, does he ever.
When I first saw the preview, I thought it was him.

[number8]

He had that stache when he was on Craig Ferguson last week. He said he's growing it for Sherlock Holmes.

[megladon8]

A few new images...

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9101/ri120altflatcclv3.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ri120altflatcclv3 .jpg)

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8735/wmd14626ccuz1.th.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmd14626ccuz1.jpg )

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5205/wmd28386cc1jy4.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmd28386cc1jy4.jp g)

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3972/wmd38746ccur4.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wmd38746ccur4.jpg )

[Grouchy]

He said he's growing it for Sherlock Holmes.
This does not match.

[number8]

This does not match.

I know, but it's Guy Ritchie. They said it's going to be more of an action-adventure martial arts Sherlock Holmes than a murder mystery Sherlock Holmes. Ritchie probably said, "No, Holmes got to be BADASS. Let's give him facial hair. That'll make him look cooler, like a FUCK YOU MORIARTY YE WANKER kind of Sherlock!"

[Grouchy]

I know, but it's Guy Ritchie. They said it's going to be more of an action-adventure martial arts Sherlock Holmes than a murder mystery Sherlock Holmes. Ritchie probably said, "No, Holmes got to be BADASS. Let's give him facial hair. That'll make him look cooler, like a FUCK YOU MORIARTY YE WANKER kind of Sherlock!"
Hahah! That's potentially all kinds of great. In fact, it sounds like Monty Python.

"Elementary, ye bloody git!".

[Morris Schæffer]

It would appear that Kevin Smith has seen it:

http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/08/15/kevin-smith-has-seen-watchmen-its-fking-astounding/

Make of that what you will.:)

[trotchky]

It would appear that Kevin Smith has seen it:

http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/08/15/kevin-smith-has-seen-watchmen-its-fking-astounding/

Make of that what you will.:)

He thinks Sin City was a faithful translation of the source material, so not only do I not trust his opinion, it actually makes me less excited to see Watchmen. :\

[Ezee E]

Guy Ritchie should've casted Ben Foster instead. They'd have the same idea of making Sherlock Holmes EXTREEEEEME!

[megladon8]

I've never read an advance review by Kevin Smith that wasn't glaringly positive, so this really means nothing to me.

Plus, a lot can change between now and March.

Just look at Punisher: War Zone.

I wouldn't put it past WB to make Watchmen PG-13 and add a soundtrack by Simple Plan.

[EyesWideOpen]

I've never read an advance review by Kevin Smith that wasn't glaringly positive, so this really means nothing to me.

Plus, a lot can change between now and March.

Just look at Punisher: War Zone.

I wouldn't put it past WB to make Watchmen PG-13 and add a soundtrack by Simple Plan.

After the success of 300 their is no chance of that.

[megladon8]

After the success of 300 their is no chance of that.

I thought there was no chance of Punisher: War Zone getting anything below R, yet we are, preparing for the release of a family friendly Punisher movie.

[EyesWideOpen]

I thought there was no chance of Punisher: War Zone getting anything below R, yet we are, preparing for the release of a family friendly Punisher movie.

The first Punisher didn't make good money and they have no faith in the director. They have complete faith in Snyder.

[Acapelli]

He thinks Sin City was a faithful translation of the source material, so not only do I not trust his opinion, it actually makes me less excited to see Watchmen. :\
wasn't it faithful though?

[Ivan Drago]

wasn't it faithful though?

Sin City? It sure was. So was 300.

[Sycophant]

Uh-oh!


Indeed, Fox contends that Warner Bros either knew or turned a blind eye to the fact that Fox had retained distribution rights in the project, and that Gordon had not perfected his interest in the Watchmen project before quitclaiming it to Warner Brothers. In any event, Fox now contends that it presently holds rights in Watchmen and that Warner Brothers’ production of the Watchmen film infringes on those rights.

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/urgent-warners-watchmen-in-legal-peril/

[megladon8]

http://cache.io9.com/assets/images/io9/2008/08/watchmen-babies.jpg

[Ivan Drago]

http://cache.io9.com/assets/images/io9/2008/08/watchmen-babies.jpg

:lol:

What episode is that from?

[number8]

:lol:

What episode is that from?

It was from last season, with Alan Moore as a guest voice. The one with Jack Black opening a new comic shop across the street from ComicBookGuy's.

[megladon8]

I love that Alan Moore guest-starred on a TV show that has been awful for years, yet he is disgusted with people trying to do a respectful adaptation of his work.

Maybe when he denies the rights to "Supreme", he'll appear on "Family Guy".

[number8]

I'm not sure what one has to do with the other.

[megladon8]

I'm not sure what one has to do with the other.


Well he's had poor dealings with 20th Century Fox before, about handling of his projects (ie. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) so I thought he wouldn't want to do something with them. Plus, it's not like The Simpsons has been very good in the past several years, so if he's concerned with artistic integrity wouldn't he be adverse to being on a show that sold out years ago?

[Grouchy]

Well he's had poor dealings with 20th Century Fox before, about handling of his projects (ie. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) so I thought he wouldn't want to do something with them. Plus, it's not like The Simpsons has been very good in the past several years, so if he's concerned with artistic integrity wouldn't he be adverse to being on a show that sold out years ago?
It's The Simpsons. Wouldn't you go?

[number8]

Well he's had poor dealings with 20th Century Fox before, about handling of his projects (ie. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) so I thought he wouldn't want to do something with them. Plus, it's not like The Simpsons has been very good in the past several years, so if he's concerned with artistic integrity wouldn't he be adverse to being on a show that sold out years ago?

It was never a matter of artistic integrity. He had personal problems with that movie dragging him to court for something he didn't do and a general beef with DC/TimeWarner for not respecting his wishes despite his explicit instructions. Moore doesn't understand why comic books can't stay comic books and why Hollywood has to make movies out of them instead of creating original scripts. Dude, if you don't want anyone adapting your work, isn't that your right?

He's just protective of his own babies. He's not a pompous dick going around saying "This shit isn't good enough for MY involvement." He's never been that way. Heck, the guy never left his childhood hometown and rarely goes to conventions because he hates being treated as "the genius." He was very flattered that Groening asked him to participate.

[megladon8]

Yes it's definitely your right to not want your work adapted. But if I were him, and I knew my work was going to be adapted regardless of how I felt about it, I would at least try to give my input and help make it the best it can be.

I understand his stance, and it's good to hear that he's not the hermit-like man that a lot of media seems to make him out to be. But it seems like he's being a little self-righteous here. Helping to make a movie version of his own work could be a great job. His story-telling capability is fantastic, and I think he could write really good screen dialogue if he would stop being so negative about it.

The movie corporations are not going away any time soon, and while they're around they'll buy anything and everything that can be adapted and will sell tickets. He might as well use this to his advantage rather than feeling sour.

[number8]

What advantage is that? He's clearly not interested in reaping cash cows or having a Hollywood career. There's no advantage to be had for him. It's different for people like Mark Millar, BKV or Brian Michael Bendis who are all clearly inspired by movies and all want to make movies. Moore's a literary guy. He wants to be a comic writer and a novelist, and he's doing okay in that career path. Why should he go out of his way to support something he has no interest towards? I don't find that self-righteous at all.

Sure, I'd be singing a different tune if Moore was holding press releases badmouthing his adaptations and urging boycotts from fans, but he didn't. "Don't give me credit, don't use my name to promote the movie and don't give me any money." That's all he asked for. Zack Snyder, for once, respected Moore's wish to not be involved and left him alone (although I really question anyone who has the balls to go against the original author's wishes), and because of that Moore already said that he won't be saying anything bad about it.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Yes it's definitely your right to not want your work adapted. But if I were him, and I knew my work was going to be adapted regardless of how I felt about it, I would at least try to give my input and help make it the best it can be.

I understand his stance, and it's good to hear that he's not the hermit-like man that a lot of media seems to make him out to be. But it seems like he's being a little self-righteous here. Helping to make a movie version of his own work could be a great job. His story-telling capability is fantastic, and I think he could write really good screen dialogue if he would stop being so negative about it.

The movie corporations are not going away any time soon, and while they're around they'll buy anything and everything that can be adapted and will sell tickets. He might as well use this to his advantage rather than feeling sour.

From what I understand, Alan Moore's perspective on Watchmen makes sense. Watchmen is undeniably a comic book story by a comic book artist that's meant to reference and restructure the established nature of comic books. Translating it to film means that an entire dimension of the experience is lost, since such experimentation loses its context during the translation.

Personally, I have my doubts that Zack Snyder will do anything with the material to give it some sort of equal commentary on the formal nature of action/superhero cinema.

Do I wish Alan Moore were more involved? Absolutely. It's his baby. But I wouldn't really call him stubborn. I think he simply has no interest.

[Sxottlan]

Here's Alan Moore's scene from that episode of The Simpsons:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prwpOgXNRhY&feature=related

"Hey teacup! Why don't you chill out?"

[megladon8]

Wow, I did not expect Alan Moore to sound like that.

[number8]

Yeah, it's actually become such a cliche for magazine interviews of him to always start with the reporter describing the contrast between how he looks and how warm, humorous and friendly he is when he speaks.

[Duncan]

I'm pretty sure I remember a quote from Alan Moore bashing V for Vendetta when it was released. Not that I feel like looking for it or backing up that claim.

[Raiders]

I'm pretty sure I remember a quote from Alan Moore bashing V for Vendetta when it was released. Not that I feel like looking for it or backing up that claim.

I think he would have stayed quiet had Joel Silver and the Wachowskis not lied about receiving his endorsement for their film. He did then go on to complain about the film's plot holes and the addition of the "eggy in a basket," which according to wikipedia he felt was a terribly lame attempt by American filmmakers to sound more British.

But yes, he did somewhat rag on that film.

[number8]

I think he would have stayed quiet had Joel Silver and the Wachowskis not lied about receiving his endorsement for their film.

That baffled me. What a dick move on their part. I remember seeing the press conference and when Silver said that I immediately went, "BULL. SHIT."

[MadMan]

Here's Alan Moore's scene from that episode of The Simpsons:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prwpOgXNRhY&feature=related

"Hey teacup! Why don't you chill out?"Man that was pretty hilarious. I remember watching most of that episode. I think its one of the few new ones I've actually bothered to see.

[megladon8]

Yeah, it's actually become such a cliche for magazine interviews of him to always start with the reporter describing the contrast between how he looks and how warm, humorous and friendly he is when he speaks.


No, that's not what I meant.

I mean the actually sound of his voice is not at all what I expected. Incredibly deep and full.

[MadMan]

Uh-oh!



http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/urgent-warners-watchmen-in-legal-peril/So does this mean that the film might not come out? I sure hope that doesn't end up being the case. The film at worse will still be a spectaular, interesting failure, and at best it will be beyond amazing. Either way if it is released on time I will be seeing it.

[EyesWideOpen]

The film will most definitely come out it just means theirs some red tape to go through first.

[Fezzik]

Unrelated to the MOVIE, but still..

I went to the local comics and games store I frequent yesterday with the sole intention of finally buying Watchmen and reading it.

And Brian, the owner, does these things called "secret daily specials" that you can only find out if you come into the store and if you ask, so I asked him.

"Oh, today? All Trade paperback graphic novels are 25% off."

"Wow...really?"

:pritch:

[D_Davis]

Have you guys seen The Mindscape Of Alan Moore?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxUP5BQHRE8

The entire thing used to be available online, but it looks like they took it down. Now it's on DVD.

Pretty interesting.

I found it interesting that color was one of the main things that drew him the world of comic books as a child. Growing up in an industrial part of England, he was constantly surrounded by drab, lifeless color, and the bright 4-color pages used in comic books were like an escape for him.

[Grouchy]

Unrelated to the MOVIE, but still..

I went to the local comics and games store I frequent yesterday with the sole intention of finally buying Watchmen and reading it.

And Brian, the owner, does these things called "secret daily specials" that you can only find out if you come into the store and if you ask, so I asked him.

"Oh, today? All Trade paperback graphic novels are 25% off."

"Wow...really?"

:pritch:
If you don't ask, does he still give you the discount? If you hadn't asked and brought Watchmen to the desk anyway?

And the movie will definitively come out, the budget just went a little over the roof.

[number8]

Have you guys seen The Mindscape Of Alan Moore?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxUP5BQHRE8

The entire thing used to be available online, but it looks like they took it down. Now it's on DVD.

Pretty interesting.

I found it interesting that color was one of the main things that drew him the world of comic books as a child. Growing up in an industrial part of England, he was constantly surrounded by drab, lifeless color, and the bright 4-color pages used in comic books were like an escape for him.

Yeah, I've asked for a review copy from the distrib. I'm really looking forward to it.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Well, I just finished reading the script.

I won't go in detail, but I will say two things. It's better than I thought it would be, but it's not replacing the graphic novel anytime soon.

[Skitch]

Just tell me there is squidy...

[Ivan Drago]

Just tell me there is squidy...

There was a squid in Watchmen?

Did I miss something? :confused:

EDIT: Oh the court date for the lawsuit has been set: January 6th. (http://www.movieweb.com/news/96/30996.php) I still think this'll be settled by then.

[megladon8]

There was a squid in Watchmen?

Did I miss something? :confused:


:|

Did you even read it?

[Skitch]

:|

Did you even read it?

Thank god...for a moment there...I thought I lost my mind.

[Ivan Drago]

:|

Did you even read it?

Yeah I did...wait I think I remember now. Never mind.

[Ivan Drago]

So do you guys think this movie will still come out? I ask because of the legal problems the movie is in.