Christopher Nolan's "Inception" (We're giving up on spoiler tags)

[B-side]

Saw this last night. Loved it. Did anyone else think Mal (Cottilard) was terrifying in some scenes?

Yup. I said somewhere that she occasionally felt like a serial killer subject to Cobb's various intellectual whims.

[Rowland]

Surprise no one is talking about the extraordinary final shot. A lot of theories have already hit the web about it.Yeah, it opens itself up to myriad byzantine possibilities for people to overthink the movie, when it seems like a fairly obvious misdirection to me; what Nolan is suggesting is that the outcome of the final shot doesn't matter as much as the fact that Cobb walks away from it.

I have more to say about the movie, I'll get into it when I have more time/willpower. Interesting that I'm the lone dissenter so far, not that I'm vehemently opposed to it or anything (a ** rating for me means the film is generally worth watching, but its negatives outweigh the positives).

[number8]

Also, the moment the credits hit, biggest audience reaction I've EVER seen in a movie.

My theater was half empty (3 am screening, heh), but yeah, definitely a bunch of "NO!"

[number8]

I remember turning to my friend and saying, "Most satisfying head turn ever?"

[Ezee E]

The crowd I saw this with was extremely frustrated with the first 30-45 minutes of this movie. However, once things got going, they were eating it up.

As for myself, I'm still trying to figure out the logistics of it all, and it's certainly going to take a couple viewings to fully understand that. However, it'll certainly be well worth it.

I'm going to assume that Leo is in limbo throughout the whole movie. I'm trying to figure out if the crew he's with are creations of his own, or possibly his team that he designed the program with?

[Fezzik]

Saw this last night.

Very ambitious. And I'm very grateful to Nolan for refraining from turning it into a Crichton-esque expository exercise on the tech and science of it all.

The characters inhabit the world and Nolan trusts the audience to just go with it. There's no set-up, no explanation, the world and these people, just are. That helps the versimilitude so much.

Acting all around was great, even the smaller parts, but my Leo and Cotillard (gee, my current faves, whod've thunk it?) were my favorites by far. The layered heist could be used to talk about relativity if nothing else, and the ideas this film has just makes me kinda take back what I said in The Dark Knight thread about 'smart' blockbusters being fluky.

Its not that the movie is hard to understand or pretentious, it just doesnt talk down to its audience and trusts them to make it through. That means a lot in the end - the very end - when the last shot causes an audience reaction that confirms two things:

1 - They really did understand what was going on
2 - Nolan succeeded in getting them invested emotionally.

I remember after the last shot went dark, i shook my head, but laughed at the same time. I said "Nolan, you bastard" but I wasnt mad. I felt like a good friend had played a harmless prank on me. It was an appreciative, respectful 'bastard' if that makes sense.

I rarely put up with ambiguous endings, but this one felt pitch perfect.

Fabulous film.

[number8]

I think the gasps were my favorite part of watching the movie. Every time they're on the job and that glass shatters, or when Cotillard shows up, etc, my audience would pip a little.

My favorite part is actually the opening. I just love movies that thrust you in like that, and the whole beach opening, then the enigmatic phrase by Watanabe, then the inexplicable cut to another world... It all struck me as kind of Prisoner-ish. Very cool.

[Ezee E]

I think the gasps were my favorite part of watching the movie. Every time they're on the job and that glass shatters, or when Cotillard shows up, etc, my audience would pip a little.

My favorite part is actually the opening. I just love movies that thrust you in like that, and the whole beach opening, then the enigmatic phrase by Watanabe, then the inexplicable cut to another world... It all struck me as kind of Prisoner-ish. Very cool.
Two other notable gasps:


-Every time Marion shows up as 8 mentioned. Never knew she had such dominating screen presence. Loved that though. Especially when she's revealed in the ice base, and going after Ellen Page for the first time.

-When JGL talks about, "How do you create free fall with no gravity?" The crowd basically went, "FUCK... HOW DO YOU DO THAT?" And during that whole fight, we all felt like the aliens in Toy Story. Ooooohhhhhhhhhhh.

[Spinal]

I'm going to assume that Leo is in limbo throughout the whole movie. I'm trying to figure out if the crew he's with are creations of his own, or possibly his team that he designed the program with?

My first thought: Nah, you're overthinking it.

My second thought: Holy crap, maybe you're right.

[Spinal]

I'm trying to be protective with editing in some spoiler text, but those who have not seen the film yet may want to tread carefully when opening this thread.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Yeah, this is my last time in the thread until I see it, which should happen on Monday. I'm relatively excited.

[Spinal]

In support of E's theory:

Maybe that is purpose of the disorienting and somewhat abrupt opening to the film. Like they say several times later: "Do you remember how you got here?" Of course, this could be a case of 'all films are dreams of a kind.' Whether or not Cobb is stuck in limbo and we are watching his dream, we most certainly are watching Nolan's 'dream'.

Just a thought.

[Spinal]

Also, I look forward to the sequel, In(ter)ception, in which Leonardo Dicaprio travels deep into Brett Favre's subconscious and tries to plant the idea that he should retire.

[Bosco B Thug]

The characters inhabit the world and Nolan trusts the audience to just go with it. There's no set-up, no explanation, the world and these people, just are. That helps the versimilitude so much. I see how it's novel and effective, but it also makes the technology seem really underdeveloped.

Seeing that stewardess hook them up and push a big button so I can be all, "Oooh, so there's a button!" was a detail given a little too belatedly for me to take seriously.

[Spinal]

Rex Reed is old and cranky and needs his diaper changed. (http://www.observer.com/2010/culture/can-someone-please-explain-inception-me)

[RoadtoPerdition]

Rex Reed is old and cranky and needs his diaper changed. (http://www.observer.com/2010/culture/can-someone-please-explain-inception-me)

That almost reads like an Armond review. I can't believe he's hated every Nolan movie.

[Dukefrukem]

Surprise no one is talking about the extraordinary final shot. A lot of theories have already hit the web about it.

I've been thinking he's in reality, but now... I'm not so sure. How long has Leo been away doing his job? His kids look like they haven't aged at all and are still in the same position he always invisions them to be in. I also read theories that his kids are dead and are just an idea that was incepted into his mind by Caine or Mal but I don't see that as being true. Lots of good stuff to talk about.

Also, the moment the credits hit, biggest audience reaction I've EVER seen in a movie.


I also go the same reaction at the end... and I think Spinal is right. I don't think he has an answer. I'd like to believe he's not dreaming... We saw Tadashi reach for his gun... as if they were understanding each other.. but it seemed WAY TOO FAST. Also, his kids were wearing the same clothes throughout the whole movie....

also


Best ending to a movie ever

[Dead & Messed Up]

Amazing.

I was suspicious of two things going in. First, that the film's emphasis on a realistic dream-world would be a negative. Secondly, that it would cop-out with an "it was all a dream ending." Amazingly, the first criticism is irrelevant, because we're supposed to feel the same "loss of reality" the characters do at times, so it's vital that the film feel plausible and real. And the second criticism is thrown out the window, because, by the end, I'm pretty sure that the entire theater, myself included, was searching the frame for that top.

Kudos to the cast for playing this so effectively.

Kudos to Nolan for having a finale that deals with five different realities without ever confusing us.

Just amazing stuff here.

The more I think about it, the more impressed I am.

[number8]

Kudos to Nolan for having a finale that deals with five different realities without ever confusing us.

That's probably the reason for the random snowy landscape. It's in very stark contrast to a plane, hotel, apocalyptic beach and rainy LA.

[Dead & Messed Up]

That's probably the reason for the random snowy landscape. It's in very stark contrast to a plane, hotel, apocalyptic beach and rainy LA.

I have no doubt, although it would also make a good little demo reel if Nolan wanted to direct a Bond picture.

[Ezee E]

I have no doubt, although it would also make a good little demo reel if Nolan wanted to direct a Bond picture.
He's better then that.

[Mysterious Dude]

I'm glad the ending was left ambiguous.

It would have annoyed me to learn that it was all a dream, but for some reason, the possibility that it was all a dream doesn't annoy me as much.

[Spinal]

I'm glad the ending was left ambiguous.

It would have annoyed me to learn that it was all a dream, but for some reason, the possibility that it was all a dream doesn't annoy me as much.

Exactly.

[baby doll]

He's better then that.Is he?

[Spinal]

Say what you will about The Dark Knight, it was far more watchable than Casino Royale.

[baby doll]

Say what you will about The Dark Knight, it was far more watchable than Casino Royale.I don't know about "far more"; I would say that it was less mediocre.

[B-side]

Say what you will about The Dark Knight, it was far more watchable than Casino Royale.

I... like both?

[Mysterious Dude]

I'm going to assume that Leo is in limbo throughout the whole movie. I'm trying to figure out if the crew he's with are creations of his own, or possibly his team that he designed the program with?

The theory I've heard:

The other team members have entered Leo's subconscious and are trying to rescue him from the limbo he has created for himself (and they're not really there to plant an idea into Cillian Murphy's head; that's just a cover). That might explain Ellen Page's pushiness, why she ran to find out what was on the bottom floor, etc. She seemed a little too interested in Leo's problem, didn't she?

[Watashi]

The theory I've heard:

The other team members have entered Leo's subconscious and are trying to rescue him from the limbo he has created for himself (and they're not really there to plant an idea into Cillian Murphy's head; that's just a cover). That might explain Ellen Page's pushiness, why she ran to find out what was on the bottom floor, etc. She seemed a little too interested in Leo's problem, didn't she?

I'm agreeing with this and I think I know exactly where it happens.

When Leo meets the Chemist the first time, he is brought downstairs and gets the sedate tested on him. When he "wakes" up, he splashes some water on his face and gets out his top but doesn't spin it... it sort of slips out of his hands and doesn't ever spin or topple. I think Nolan wouldn't show this scene without a reason. I think that's where the inception is taken place and since that scene, Leo doesn't spin his top until the very last scene.

[Barty]

I think that theory has little backing in the actual movie, though its a fun idea. I think one key to the film is that inception just isn't a dream possibility, Leos one simple idea is something he has buried in his actual mind, namely returning to his kids. Since the idea is his own, it allows him to conquer his wifes projection and escape the dream world he wants to live in so badly to be with her. Inception of an idea might function as a parasite in certain people or for the wrong motives, but if the idea is pure it functions like water or food, it drives the person to a better state

[Barty]

Though now Wats post makes me almost question it.

[Spinal]

Yeah, for me, there's a point at which an interpretation, while possibly valid, just makes the whole thing seem less elegant. But, like I said before, I doubt Nolan has a single 'right' answer in mind. So whatever works for you.

[Russ]

Gordon-Levitt's much-ballyhood scenes in the hotel were the most enjoyable part of the movie for me. Honestly, tho, I was just tired of Nolan's dream-logic showboating by film's-end. The damn thing was literally too smart for its own good -- but not at its core, as it's a really intriguing concept that, imho, was just clumsily executed. It's all in the rules and details, which Nolan makes sure he dishes up whenever things start to get a little confusing. Just have Ellen Page or someone pop up and explain a few facts, and then boom, another dream-level. The real problem is, for a film that is supposedly about the dream-state, with a setting inside a person's dreams, it's probably as un-dreamlike an experience as anything you could imagine (unless your dreams are mainly comprised of bloated Hollywood action flicks). I could've done with more real storytelling as opposed to, "Here are the rules that we play by (except for the ones we are holding back for just the right dramatic reveal). Now, let's go invade a dream!" The supposed emotional weight centering around Cotillard's character was sapped of any sense of power or urgency by Nolan's playful directorial mindset (Is It A Dream, or is it REAL?!?). I'm sure I'd probably feel better about Zimmer's score if I hear it isolated from the film, but in context I found it overwrought and grating (not to mention unrelenting!). Maybe some people left the theater asking what really happened, or what does the ending mean? Me, I was just asking myself what was the point? If it was to show us Nolan's technical wizardry at choreographing three levels of action set-pieces simultaneously, well, then Mission: Accomplished!

[Watashi]

Yeah, while I like Zimmer's score a lot (especially during the finale), it was overbearing during a lot of scenes where it was just people talking and I couldn't hear everyone clearly. I really noticed this on my second viewing.

[Mysterious Dude]

I'm a little disappointed that the dreams weren't very dreamlike. Any time a dream seemed to betray real-world logic (as one expects a dream to do), it was either because of something in the upper dream level was that was affecting it (such as being in a car in a free-fall causing gravity to go away*) or because the architects were purposely manipulating the world (trick staircases). Almost everything was pretty logical.

The best dreams I've ever seen in a motion picture were the dreams in the episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, "Restless." I'm going to watch it on Netflix right now!

* I found it curious that free-fall didn't affect all of the other dream levels. Why only the one?

[Watashi]

I actually like how they didn't make all the dreams super surreal and trippy. That's why they brought the Architect in to maintain that the dreams looked as much as reality so the subject wouldn't be able to know he is in a dream.

[Spinal]

I really don't think you could sustain coherence over the course of the film if the dreams were too surreal.

[Russ]

I really don't think you could sustain coherence over the course of the film if the dreams were too surreal.
Tell that to Paprika.

[number8]

I'm glad the finished film is ambiguous. The original script actually makes it clear that the ending is a dream. It's heavily implied that Leo and Watanabe never made it out and Leo is stuck in limbo forever, so Ellen Page goes back in to make it more bearable for him by incepting a fake scenario. The final scene plays out a bit differently in the script. When Leo, Michael Caine and Ellen Page get to Leo's home, Leo spins his top to make sure he's not dreaming, but Ellen Page catches it, shakes her head, steps aside to reveal his two kids behind her and says to him, "Eggs and Bakey don't want you to wakey, Cobb salad."

[Spinal]

Tell that to Paprika.

I love Paprika, but I would have a real hard time relaying the story to you.

[Watashi]

What.

[number8]

No, it's totally true.

[number8]

In other news, I still haven't gotten over my hate for Juno, apparently.

[Russ]

At least I'll agree that he did nail the ending (esp. in light of 8's spoiler).

So, first Shutter Island, now Inception..What's up with Leo's guilt-trippin', self-tortured protagonist film choices here lately?

[number8]

Some guy recorded his audience's reaction when the ending hits. Spoiler, obviously.

PkBYfNWajUU

[B-side]

Heh.

[Barty]

You can hear it fall after the cut to black.

[Spinal]

July 18th, 2010 ... I'm going to call it. This wins Best Original Screenplay at the Oscars.

[Barty]

I raise your screenplay to Best Director.

[Morris Schæffer]

I raise your screenplay to Best Director.

And he would have been a fairly deserved winner back in 2009!

[Ezee E]

You can hear it fall after the cut to black.

Perhaps it was drowned out to the reaction of the audience, but I don't remember hearing anything.

[Milky Joe]

Wait... this thing had a screenplay?

[Dukefrukem]

I actually like how they didn't make all the dreams super surreal and trippy. That's why they brought the Architect in to maintain that the dreams looked as much as reality so the subject wouldn't be able to know he is in a dream.

Me too. I was afraid (and I think Nolan knows this) that if it did enter that kind of dreamlike word.. it would reflect too much of the Matrix.

[megladon8]

It was very good.

I need a little more time to thin about it before I actually come up with a rating.

[Spinal]

Wait... this thing had a screenplay?

What did you think it was? A documentary?

[Watashi]

I think duke liked the film.

[Ezee E]

I think duke liked the film.
Fairly sure he was bored by it, tried to give it a 9, but fell asleep because he was still so bored by it.

[RoadtoPerdition]

Inception is #3 on IMDb with a 9.4 overall rating. Much more deserving than when The Dark Knight was there when it opened (and for awhile after).

[Dukefrukem]

EzeeE is right, I was so bored I meant to give it a 0, slipped and feel asleep with my finger on the 9 button. But then I woke up and realized I was only bored by it in my dreams! My love for the movie was real!

[Ezee E]

Posted by JGL's twitter:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/131955923.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0 ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1279505156&Signature=7UlVWmAHIsTUvCFltszR 23tvcoE%3D

bahaha

[Raiders]

Blegh.

Too late to write anything, but this one lost me pretty quick.

[Watashi]

You rated the wrong JGL movie higher.

[endingcredits]

For me, the shoot-out in the snow was pretty much devoid of any cinematic quality. Otherwise, I liked it.

[Raiders]

I lied...

A couple nights ago, I dreamt that I was standing in some field with large ducks flying overhead and I was walking towards a tree where my wife and sister-in-law were standing. When I got to them, they both looked angry and turned away. I tried to speak to them but nothing seemed to come out; I struggled to express myself but I was incapable and instead, I turned around and began to walk when I sense someone chasing me. I ran, and ran, and ran... I never looked back and felt something begin to tackle me and I woke up, breathing heavily and visibly shaking.

Apparently, Christopher Nolan doesn't have dreams like mine. Apparently his are ordered and flow fairly logically. Nolan obviously dreams in lucid narratives. He has created a film based entirely around the expanse of the human subconscious and dreams and has found a way to take all the fun out of it. He has imposed a structure to the way our minds work and process dreams and as such has reworked one of our most fascinating traits into something mundane; a dreamworld that plays out almost strictly like an action/suspense film. The entire second-half of the film takes place entirely in the minds of the characters and yet the best we can do is go from modern-day actioner to hotel suspense to wintery James Bond landscape. Nolan's mind must work like a set of film genres.

Ultimately, the film bears the mark of its creator, and that mark is machine-like, but with a God-like control over every little detail. Nothing flourishes from the uncontrolled artistic impulse; everything is planned, thought out and combed-over until no shot or scene left to linger with a sense of unchecked creativity. The film is "perfect" in the same way a Thomas Kinkaid painting has no incorrect brushstrokes or a Josh Groban song has no quivers or dissonance. It's perfection is bewildering in its oppressiveness, making even the interesting details suffocating. Leo's own past suffering, an interesting and messy(!) detail that ultimately is nothing of the sort but provides a resolution for the film's final dream-stage.

I can't argue with those who loved it. The creation is magnificent in its over-arching vision. Nolan had a specific, well-planned idea and created an air-tight film. But it meant nothing to me; didn't move me or even perk my interest. It took the possible fascination of the inner recesses of our mind and literalized them to a disgusting degree. And the ending flowed unnaturally to me, the openness of it some kind of perverse joke. Nolan has been so precise all along at giving us no doubt about the details, no quizzical moments that might stem from the uncontrollable impulses of our minds, and then he leaves us leaning towards the screen. I think he was afraid to answer the question. He wasn't sure if a closed-book ending would have befitted the very nature of the unstable craft these characters perform. But, it just doesn't work when up until then, his own craft had never dared to become unstable itself and that, for all his vision and his brilliant design, just doesn't cut it for me.

[Watashi]

For me, the shoot-out in the snow was pretty much devoid of any cinematic quality. Otherwise, I liked it.
I think that was more of Nolan's audition to do a Bond film with Tom Hardy.

Make this happen, Hollywood.

[endingcredits]

Too late to write anything, but this one lost me pretty quick.

Really? I thought the plot was laid out pretty clearly, almost bordering on spoon-feeding the audience at times.

[Thirdmango]

I liked the movie, I'm afraid if I see it again I might dislike it more as I have with every Nolan movie I've watched, but for the most part I thought it was a fun movie, as to the ending...

So about twenty to thirty minutes in I thought he was in the dream and his wife was right. It was in the scene where he's in the bathroom and spins his top and it falls on the floor before someone comes in. The movie gave such an emphasis on no one ever touching each other's totem. But Leo's totem was originally his wives, in which he touched while still dreaming. Then he kept it afterwards, so he never really knew how the weight felt in the first place. Then also Watanabe touched it in his own limbo.

For some people this isn't good enough evidence but within the framework of the movie it was good enough evidence for me. His wife didn't kill herself from going crazy, her wife is the one currently with the kids if the kids even actually exist.

[Milky Joe]

What did you think it was? A documentary?

My quibble was with it was deserving of what I traditionally think a "best screenplay" award signifies. This seemed like about 2 1/2 hours of exposition to me. Exposition which lead up to a pretty spectacular final act, admittedly, but containing about as much nuance as, well, The Dark Knight's screenplay did.

[number8]

I don't know why so many people think that just because we see the dream world as lucid that means the dreamer should have remembered it as such.

[BuffaloWilder]

Guys, they were intentionally structured dreams. By design, they're not going to be as entirely surreal and nonsensical as a person's personal dreams - in fact, that's kind of the whole point of the movie, what with the conclusion it comes to about Leo's character.

[Spinal]

Inception is #3 on IMDb with a 9.4 overall rating. Much more deserving than when The Dark Knight was there when it opened (and for awhile after).

I'm pretty sure this is going into my top 100 eventually.

[Henry Gale]

Aaaand that's about as good a time in the theatre as I can expect to have.

Now I shall read through the thread.

[Watashi]

Here's a pretty interesting take on the film. (http://chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html)

[DrewG]

I thought this back and forth (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/07/inceptions_dileep_rao_answers. html) between Dileep Rao (the chemist) and someone for New York Magazine was really good. Definitely some interesting theories floating around in there. I really liked this in particular:

Rao:

To me, the real story all boils down to Saito's line in the helicopter. Leo wants to go home and see his kids. Saito says, "I can help you, but it'll have to be an act of faith." Leo has to trust Saito, and he does this while putting total faith in himself and the team, and everything goes apeshit wrong, but he has to believe that if he does the job, Saito will do what he promised. And they've grown, they've become friends, which is why Leo says "Come back and let's be young men together." Leo's follow-through on that act of faith is his transformation. He becomes a person who can take a chance.

There's also kind of a beautiful negative symmetry between that leap of faith, and Mal begging him to make a similar leap of faith. After he did that with her, and the guilt plagues him, he can't function any more. He's exploring his memories in a dangerous unhealthy way, and he's going to let that go by the time the movie's over.

Everyone's so concerned about whether the top falls or not, but no one seems to care that Leo walked away without caring. The moment he sees their face, he can walk away. That's testimony to the fact that he's gained that faith.

[Rowland]

Everyone's so concerned about whether the top falls or not, but no one seems to care that Leo walked away without caring. The moment he sees their face, he can walk away. That's testimony to the fact that he's gained that faith.
Exactly what I alluded to a page or two back.

[SirNewt]

Talk about wasting great actors. How such a collection of charismatic actors/actresses failed to leave any mark on the material (anyone wanna bet that impromptu kiss was improvised?) speaks volumes about its surface-depths. By comparison, just think about how amazing the ensemble was for Nolan's Memento.

I seem to be one of the few people who wasn't blown away by it. Sure, it looks fairly convincing, but Nolan doesn't film it or stitch it together in a manner so that it's all that viscerally exciting or formally impressive. In fact, between the lack of compelling emotional context and Nolan's formal indifference, these are probably the worst actions sequences in any of his films. The mountain sequence is the worst offender in this respect, as Nolan fails to really impart the notion that it's designed as a labyrinth (as he fails to in general with all the environments, to be honest) or really organize it with any spatial coherence.

Pretty much with Rowland on this. Except I did like the hallway sequence. The previews before this were terrible BTW. That owl movie looks like the biggest CG suckfest since Beverly Hills Chihuahua. Tron looks stylish but no Daft Punk tease was disappointing.

[Dukefrukem]

I think that was more of Nolan's audition to do a Bond film with Tom Hardy.

Make this happen, Hollywood.

After he does Batman 3 right?

[Dukefrukem]

Made $60 mil in its first weekend (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2860&p=.htm). Not Batman numbers, but solid nonetheless.

[Dukefrukem]

So this scene, if I am interpreting correctly, he spins his top with his gun in his hand, because if it stops spinning, he'd shoot himself to wake up?

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/image2/inception_INC-18243_3.jpg

[number8]

So this scene, if I am interpreting correctly, he spins his top with his gun in his hand, because if it stops spinning, he'd shoot himself to wake up?

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/image2/inception_INC-18243_3.jpg



You mean if it doesn't stop spinning. yeah, he does it after every job. Though I'm not sure how long he would've waited.

[Dukefrukem]

You mean if it doesn't stop spinning. yeah, he does it after every job. Though I'm not sure how long he would've waited.

Correct.

[Wryan]

Runs like treble clockwork or better, but I didn't get much feeling from this. And released so near Shutter Island made me think certain things just by association. Also, creative license had to glide over some issues (how do you quantify exactly how much time being in a dream within a dream affords you?...you don't, there'd be no way to tell, etc.), but eh that's ok. You have to accept some things as a baseline. The shots with JGL tying up the stacked team and floating them around had me giddy. Impressively balanced finale. Nice job from Cillian Murphy, particularly, but everyone was good here. Very nice to see, as one review put it, a minimum of hand-holding.

If the emotion had been there as much as the mental flapjacks, I'd have been pleased as punch.

[Spinal]

I'm really, really perplexed by the charges of lack of emotion. Maybe I gotta chalk it up to different life experiences or whatever, but this was the polar opposite of my experience. Ah well.

[Watashi]

Everyone is talking about this movie. At work, on the radio, at the grocery store...

This movie is going to have HUGE legs.

[Wryan]

I'm really, really perplexed by the charges of lack of emotion. Maybe I gotta chalk it up to different life experiences or whatever, but this was the polar opposite of my experience. Ah well.

I can't say why I didn't feel much from it, exactly. I just didn't. Altho Cotillard was great.

[Dukefrukem]

Everyone is talking about this movie. At work, on the radio, at the grocery store...

This movie is going to have HUGE legs.

I still don't think it will approach half of what the Dark Knight made... Domestically or combined.

[Ezee E]

Everyone is talking about this movie. At work, on the radio, at the grocery store...

This movie is going to have HUGE legs.
Someone facebooked:
So, everyone but me saw Inception. Thanks for the invites bitches.

[number8]

I still don't think it will approach half of what the Dark Knight made... Domestically or combined.

Only because little kids aren't dying to see this movie.

[Raiders]

You can hear it fall after the cut to black.

Our audience was fairly silent (though they did do some clapping) and this is definitely false. There is no such noise.

[Raiders]

I thought it was amusing the very first thing the guy next to me said was, "so it takes twenty seconds now for a van to fall 100 feet off a bridge?"

[[ETM]]

I still don't think it will approach half of what the Dark Knight made... Domestically or combined.

Does it have to? It only has the marketing machine and good WOM going for it, it's not a sequel, adaptation, whatever. It's gonna make a boatload of cash, which is fine even without breaking records.

[Milky Joe]

I thought it was amusing the very first thing the guy next to me said was, "so it takes twenty seconds now for a van to fall 100 feet off a bridge?"

I was more hung up on how Levitt could fly through zero-G, arrange 6 people in a little tower, tie them together, then sail them out the room and down the hallway into the elevator, then get on top of the elevator, plant C-4 charges, blow the charges and wait for the elevator to hit the ground... in two minutes.

[Wryan]

I was more hung up on how Levitt could fly through zero-G, arrange 6 people in a little tower, tie them together, then sail them out the room and down the hallway into the elevator, then get on top of the elevator, plant C-4 charges, blow the charges and wait for the elevator to hit the ground... in two minutes.

My question: why did the elevator fall at all?

[Wryan]

I thought it was amusing the very first thing the guy next to me said was, "so it takes twenty seconds now for a van to fall 100 feet off a bridge?"

You should have turned partway, slapped on your monocle, and announced, "Philistine!"

I'm pretty sure this would have worked.

[number8]

My question: why did the elevator fall at all?

It didn't fall. He cut the cable then planted C4 at the top. The explosion propelled the elevator downward.

[Wryan]

It didn't fall. He cut the cable then planted C4 at the top. The explosion propelled the elevator downward.

It looked to me like he planted C4 in more places than just the top. It also looked like he only blew some of the cables away in the first explosion, and not all of them. But I concede that what you wrote was the intent.

Also, I found a lot of art in the very brief shot of Ellen Page waking up during the final kick in the watery van, just barely seeing her eyes open as the water was filling.

[Dukefrukem]

I think I'm in love with Ellen Page now.

[megladon8]

I think I'm in love with Ellen Page now.


Really? I found she looked creepily child-like. Especially when she was dressed up in the formal wear with her hair up. She looked like a 12 year old wearing her mom's clothes.

[DavidSeven]

Tremendous. Complex, but not confusing, with simple human drama providing some serious emotional weight. It's completely reminiscent of Memento in that regard, but experience and resources take this piece to an entirely new level. The casting is surprisingly spot-on, and the personality and vibe of each main player adds significant value to the film. Technical precision is off the charts, and Nolan further distances himself from the herd of average Hollywood filmmakers and moves closer to a category all by himself. Beautifully constructed and inventive narrative with a final act that will leave you emotionally reeling if you actually let yourself in. Loved it.

[Dukefrukem]

Here's something good to discuss... was thinking about it today.



The 4th dream stage was not initially planned. Therefor they needed a quick way to complete their mission by reviving Fischer, so they decided to go into Cobb's world to give Fischer the kick that would wake him up in the 3rd dream world.

My question is, how was Fischer in Cobb's world? Did they hook him up to the dream machine? I don't remember this. If that IS the case, why would he be in Cobb's world? Why wouldn't he be in Limbo? I need to watch the movie again to follow this path.

It makes sense that Fischer would wake up after the kick in the 4th world, I'm just trying to figure out how they were all in that world together, including Saito who died before they even entered it.

[Watashi]

Ellen Page was very hot in this film.

[Dukefrukem]

Really? I found she looked creepily child-like. Especially when she was dressed up in the formal wear with her hair up. She looked like a 12 year old wearing her mom's clothes.

I just looked up her IMDB... holy fuck... she's kitty from X2????

[Spinal]

I thought it was amusing the very first thing the guy next to me said was, "so it takes twenty seconds now for a van to fall 100 feet off a bridge?"

Huh, I thought it was ten.

[Spinal]

Huh, I thought it was ten.

IMDb plot synopsis (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/synopsis) confirms this.

[Raiders]

Here's something good to discuss... was thinking about it today.



The 4th dream stage was not initially planned. Therefor they needed a quick way to complete their mission by reviving Fischer, so they decided to go into Cobb's world to give Fischer the kick that would wake him up in the 3rd dream world.

My question is, how was Fischer in Cobb's world? Did they hook him up to the dream machine? I don't remember this. If that IS the case, why would he be in Cobb's world? Why wouldn't he be in Limbo? I need to watch the movie again to follow this path.

It makes sense that Fischer would wake up after the kick in the 4th world, I'm just trying to figure out how they were all in that world together, including Saito who died before they even entered it.


... huh?

[Dukefrukem]

... huh?

did you watch the movie?

[Raiders]

did you watch the movie?

Yes, what you said makes no sense.

There is no fourth dream world (which I assume you mean the place where Mal is and where they find Fischer). That's limbo. It is entirely Cobb's creation because he is the only one who has previously been there and so everything was previously made by him. They use Fischer as the dreamer to get there since that's where he currently is, in limbo.

[Dukefrukem]

Yes, what you said makes no sense.

There is no fourth dream world (which I assume you mean the place where Mal is and where they find Fischer). That's limbo. It is entirely Cobb's creation because he is the only one who has previously been there and so everything was previously made by him. They use Fischer as the dreamer to get there since that's where he currently is, in limbo.



Really? There isn't a 4th dream world? Then what are they talking about in the link that Spinal posted where they refer to "4th level dream".... :confused:

the 4th dream level is limbo I get that. Sorry for the miscommunication in terminology. I just didn't remember how they were all in the same level together.

And you actually answered my question; using Fischer as the dreamer to get there. But they would have also had to hook up Saito correct? I don't remember that happening.

[number8]

Why would they need to hook up Saito? He's already in limbo because he was shot.

[Dukefrukem]

Why would they need to hook up Saito? He's already in limbo because he was shot.

I guess I assumed they all needed to be connected to share the dream. But if there is only 1 limbo, I guess there's only 1 place for them to go.

[number8]

There seems to be a misunderstanding on how the shared dreaming works. It's not a machine, it's a chemical. You inhale something specific that a chemist would whip up, and people who do the same in close proximity would dream together. The machine with the button is just an IV drip thingie. Remember the people in Yusuf's basement who all dream together? They weren't connected to anything.

[Dukefrukem]

Thank you for the clarification.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I thought this back and forth (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/07/inceptions_dileep_rao_answers. html) between Dileep Rao (the chemist) and someone for New York Magazine was really good. Definitely some interesting theories floating around in there. I really liked this in particular:

Rao:

To me, the real story all boils down to Saito's line in the helicopter. Leo wants to go home and see his kids. Saito says, "I can help you, but it'll have to be an act of faith." Leo has to trust Saito, and he does this while putting total faith in himself and the team, and everything goes apeshit wrong, but he has to believe that if he does the job, Saito will do what he promised. And they've grown, they've become friends, which is why Leo says "Come back and let's be young men together." Leo's follow-through on that act of faith is his transformation. He becomes a person who can take a chance.

There's also kind of a beautiful negative symmetry between that leap of faith, and Mal begging him to make a similar leap of faith. After he did that with her, and the guilt plagues him, he can't function any more. He's exploring his memories in a dangerous unhealthy way, and he's going to let that go by the time the movie's over.

Everyone's so concerned about whether the top falls or not, but no one seems to care that Leo walked away without caring. The moment he sees their face, he can walk away. That's testimony to the fact that he's gained that faith.

Very cool interview. Dileep Rao is one smart son of a bitch.

Rao is really finding a niche for himself in Hollywood as the expert-with-a-heart. This film, Avatar, Drag Me to Hell. It'd be awesome to see him start taking larger roles. He's got a sympathetic Alfred Molina quality to him.

[number8]

Yeah, this sentence Rao said is pretty much why I reject the "it's all a dream" theory.


But I do think it's real because it's an apostatic act on art itself to suddenly say "Well, none of this happened, and I have no explanation."

For anyone to choose that interpretation would be to voluntarily lessen the movie. That's weird to me.

[number8]

Man, remembering to spoiler tag is a hassle. Can't you guys who haven't seen it just, you know, fuck off for a while? :P

[Mara]

Man, remembering to spoiler tag is a hassle. Can't you guys who haven't seen it just, you know, fuck off for a while? :P

No.

I haven't seen a film in the theaters for probably over a year, but I'm considering making an expensive exception. The responses here have been really persuasive.

[megladon8]

I like to think it wasn't all a dream because I'm sentimental and wanted Cobb to end the film on a happy note. I guess it's a testament to how well Nolan created the character - I didn't want to see him in a sad ending.

[Watashi]

Barty made a note that every time Cobb is dreaming, he has his wedding ring on and he has it off when he's not. Apparently at the very end, Cobb is not wearing it.

[Dukefrukem]

Barty made a note that every time Cobb is dreaming, he has his wedding ring on and he has it off when he's not. Apparently at the very end, Cobb is not wearing it.

Can't wait to look for this on my 2nd viewing.


I like to think it wasn't all a dream because I'm sentimental and wanted Cobb to end the film on a happy note. I guess it's a testament to how well Nolan created the character - I didn't want to see him in a sad ending.

I can't overlook Saito picking up the gun. What was he doing with it then?

[number8]

I can't overlook Saito picking up the gun. What was he doing with it then?

He shot himself and Cobb to wake themselves up. What else?

[number8]

Yo, Wats, Barty. San Diego. Let's D-Box this shit.

[Dukefrukem]

He shot himself and Cobb to wake themselves up. What else?

Exactly. Therefor the ending is not a dream.

[number8]

Exactly. Therefor the ending is not a dream.

Huh? How do you figure? I think the "it's all a dream" believers purport that the "reality" surface has always been a dream from the beginning. What does waking up from limbo has to do with it?

[Dukefrukem]

Huh? How do you figure? I think the "it's all a dream" believers purport that the "reality" surface has always been a dream from the beginning. What does waking up from limbo has to do with it?

Isn't that how Mal and Cobb woke up when they were in Limbo? (the train scene) Should we be spoiler tagging this?

[number8]

Isn't that how Mal and Cobb woke up when they were in Limbo? (the train scene) Should we be spoiler tagging this?

When you die, you just wake up in the previous level. You don't go all the way up to reality. Remember in the beginning of the movie, Cobb shoots Arthur in the head and they wake up still in the traitor's dream during the riot?

[Dukefrukem]

When you die, you just wake up in the previous level. You don't go all the way up to reality. Remember in the beginning of the movie, Cobb shoots Arthur in the head and they wake up still in the traitor's dream during the riot?

Fuck I forgot about that...

So what was the point of going back for Saito then? They'd have to go through 4 levels before they would get back to reality. We have clues of getting back to the 3rd level... and that's it.

[Watashi]

Yo, Wats, Barty. San Diego. Let's D-Box this shit.
I'd be down. Sunday night would probably work best.

[number8]

Fuck I forgot about that...

So what was the point of going back for Saito then? They'd have to go through 4 levels before they would get back to reality. We have clues of getting back to the 3rd level... and that's it.

They didn't have to. From the gunshots, Cobb and Saito got back to snow fortress right before the explosion and joined the sync. Relative time.

[Dukefrukem]

They didn't have to. From the gunshots, Cobb and Saito got back to snow fortress right before the explosion and joined the sync. Relative time.

The van was already in the water when everyone climbed out except for C and S. They wouldn't have gone through all the kicks.

[Watashi]

The van was already in the water when everyone climbed out except for C and S. They wouldn't have gone through all the kicks.
Cobb and Saito died drowning in the van which caused them to wake up in the real world.

[Dukefrukem]

I suppose.

[Russ]

Cobb and Saito died drowning in the van which caused them to wake up in the real world.
But I thought that, because of the powerful sedative or whatever, that if you die in the dreamworld you go to limbo...which Saito had already done once. So, you die a second time and you wake up? (though it was still the first death for Cobb?)

Fuck all, that's what I really dislike about the film. The rules are so elastic as to allow anything that happened to be rationalized. That's just lazy filmmaking if you ask me.

[megladon8]

Cobb and Saito weren't woken up by the drowning death in the van. They both ended up in limbo - only Saito was there for much, much longer because he had died in the deepest level of the dream.

This is why Saito was an old man when Cobb finally finds him. He had lived many, many years in the limbo world before Cobb caught up to him.

[Watashi]

I dunno, I find all the discussion and theorizing part of the film's strengths.

[Ezee E]

I dunno, I find all the discussion and theorizing part of the film's strengths.
Agreed.

[number8]

No, no, no. At the top dream level, they were woken up by the sedative wearing off. That's why they climbed out of the van and just sat on the riverbank. You don't have to die to wake up.

[Russ]

I dunno, I find all the discussion and theorizing part of the film's strengths.
Certainly. But you and meg saw the same film and can't even agree on events that did or did not transpire. Events that I don't think were intended to be interpreted.

[megladon8]

Certainly. But you and meg saw the same film and can't even agree on events that did or did not transpire. Events that I don't think were intended to be interpreted.


I thought what we were talking about was pretty ambiguous...

A lot of the film is up for interpretation. I thought it was impressive that Nolan was able to make everything so ambiguous while keeping the movie easy to understand.

[Spinal]

Man, remembering to spoiler tag is a hassle.

Yeah, thanks you guys for staying on top of that.

[baby doll]

Ellen Page was very hot in this film.Too bad she's a hardcore lesbian.

[Spinal]

Too bad she's a hardcore lesbian.

Our chances of scoring with her just went from zero to zero.

[Sven]

Our chances of scoring with her just went from zero to zero.

Heh.

[Raiders]

No, no, no. At the top dream level, they were woken up by the sedative wearing off. That's why they climbed out of the van and just sat on the riverbank. You don't have to die to wake up.

But Saito and Cobb didn't get out of the van. They drowned there. There's even a moment when the others (or maybe just Ellen Page) mention he must now find Saito. Which begs the question about dying twice and Cobb dying in the top-level while already being in limbo.

[Derek]

I haven't read through the whole thread, so I'm not if anyone has discussed the train quote/riddle. The first time we hear it was when Cobb said it to Mal when they were at the train tracks. The only other time it said is when Mal tells it to Ariadne. If this is the case, how would Saito remember it when he's quoting it in limbo with Leo? I'm wondering if this lends credence to the theory that Cobb is in limbo and the others are all on a rescue mission as that may explain why Saito (and others in several cases) are prone to information/visions that are only known to Cobb.

[Derek]

Certainly. But you and meg saw the same film and can't even agree on events that did or did not transpire. Events that I don't think were intended to be interpreted.

Did you know anyone who could agree on everything that occured in Mulholland Dr. or Paprika after one viewing?

[Dukefrukem]

No, no, no. At the top dream level, they were woken up by the sedative wearing off. That's why they climbed out of the van and just sat on the riverbank. You don't have to die to wake up.

I thought I finally understood it and now I'm back to "WTF?"

[Russ]

Did you know anyone who could agree on everything that occured in Mulholland Dr. or Paprika after one viewing?
No, but neither of those films' makers went to the lengths Nolan went to, to so painstakingly outline a set of rules by which the film's universe was supposed to follow.

[Derek]

No, but neither of those films' makers went to the lengths Nolan went to, to so painstakingly outline a set of rules by which the film's universe was supposed to follow.

But having a set of rules defines how things work within the dream world. It doesn't automatically make all the events in a multi-layered 2 1/2 hour film crystal clear.

[Russ]

But having a set of rules defines how things work within the dream world. It doesn't automatically make all the events in a multi-layered 2 1/2 hour film crystal clear.
Exactly, not all events. But it shouldn't hedge on the important ones, like the rules for successfully exiting the dream levels.

[Rowland]

Anyone else find the literal-minded Escher-ian paradox really lame? Levitt even mutters "paradox" after he uses it, for the slow-witted theatergoers I suppose.

[Watashi]

We all can't be high intellects like you, Rowland.

[Rowland]

We all can't be high intellects like you, Rowland.It takes a high intellect to evoke Escher in the most unimaginative way imaginable? That's College Dorm Stoner 101.

[Derek]

Exactly, not all events. But it shouldn't hedge on the important ones, like the rules for successfully exiting the dream levels.

I thought it made it pretty clear that dying or the drug wearing off were the two ways.

[Watashi]

It takes a high intellect to evoke Escher in the most unimaginative way imaginable? That's College Dorm Stoner 101.
I think it's more that you are quick to denounce viewers as "slow-witted" for not scoffing at the literal-minded ideas Nolan is portraying.

[Watashi]

I thought it made it pretty clear that dying or the drug wearing off were the two ways.
Yeah the sedate was created only to last the 10 hours of the flight. It had to wear off eventually.

[Rowland]

I think it's more that you are quick to denounce viewers as "slow-witted" for not scoffing at the literal-minded ideas Nolan is portraying.No, I was scoffing at Nolan for feeling he needed Levitt to tell us it was a paradox.

[Watashi]

Armond White is on the slashfilmcast right now discussing Inception. (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/slashfilmcast#utm_campaigne=sy nclickback&source=http://www.slashfilm.com/live/&medium=191240)

This is sooooo weird. First time I've heard him speak.

[megladon8]

Armond White is on the slashfilmcast right now discussing Inception. (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/slashfilmcast#utm_campaigne=sy nclickback&source=http://www.slashfilm.com/live/&medium=191240)

This is sooooo weird. First time I've heard him speak.


God, he's just as ridiculous and insufferable vocally.

What the hell is he talking about, saying Inception was trying to critique "the video game impulse that exists in our culture"? WTF??

[Spinal]

Why are we paying attention to him?

[megladon8]

I like when the interviewer asked him "what did you think of the ideas expressed in the film - like the idea that an idea itself can change a person?"

His response?

"I didn't see that in the movie."


It just boggles my mind. No matter how many times I read his nonsensical rants, I can still be surprised by the crap that comes out of that man's mind.

[Watashi]

Why are we paying attention to him?
Because it's just interesting to see a critic talk about the film beyond the letters on the page.

[Watashi]

Now White is talking about how Transformers 2 speaks to the human experience.

This is soooooooooooooooooooooooo awkward.

[BuffaloWilder]

"Let's just simply accept that whoever has the director credit, that's who we're gonna praise, or that's who we're gonna blame."

"...well, that stuff happens, but I can't be bothered with that."

[Milky Joe]

What the hell is he talking about, saying Inception was trying to critique "the video game impulse that exists in our culture"? WTF??

I don't see how that's so absurd an idea? The movie was basically a videogame. I mean the characters themselves talk about the 'dreams' being "levels."

[Derek]

I don't see how that's so absurd an idea? The movie was basically a videogame. I mean the characters themselves talk about the 'dreams' being "levels."

Yeah, the notion that technology in general, especially video games, hi-def television, etc. attempt to create a "realer than real" experience which supplants reality has been around for a while. It's actually a pretty interesting way to approach the film, assuming the one doing the approaching is not Armond White.

EDIT: Also, the fact that these world's are designed in a way that tricks the senses into believing they're real to the point that reality/dream become impossible to distinguish...that's essentially the direction video games are heading.

[Derek]

I haven't read through the whole thread, so I'm not if anyone has discussed the train quote/riddle. The first time we hear it was when Cobb said it to Mal when they were at the train tracks. The only other time it said is when Mal tells it to Ariadne. If this is the case, how would Saito remember it when he's quoting it in limbo with Leo? I'm wondering if this lends credence to the theory that Cobb is in limbo and the others are all on a rescue mission as that may explain why Saito (and others in several cases) are prone to information/visions that are only known to Cobb.

Anyone have any ideas on this?

[Adam]

I thought Armond came off well in that interview. Didn't say anything especially ridiculous or condescending and I actually agreed with most of his feelings on Nolan. He clearly believes everything he preaches, at least

Too bad about his absolute shit taste in comedy

[Watashi]

Anyone seen Paris When It Sizzles?

[Watashi]

I thought Armond came off well in that interview. Didn't say anything especially ridiculous or condescending and I actually agreed with most of his feelings on Nolan. He clearly believes everything he preaches, at least

Too bad about his absolute shit taste in comedy
Armond is certainly a scholar, but his whole "I'm old now, so I don't watch these kind of films" is really tiring.

[Watashi]

Well, that was interesting.

According to White, no director under 40 should be making films... unless you're Orson Welles.

[number8]

I don't see how that's so absurd an idea? The movie was basically a videogame. I mean the characters themselves talk about the 'dreams' being "levels."

I dunno, when people say "levels," video game levels aren't exactly what I think of first.

[megladon8]

I dunno, when people say "levels," video game levels aren't exactly what I think of first.


Exactly.

Just because the word "levels" happens to be something that is often used to describe stages in a video game, does not mean that Nolan was intending the comparison.

I do not see this film as trying to relate to video games in any way, shape or form.

[megladon8]

Armond is certainly a scholar, but his whole "I'm old now, so I don't watch these kind of films" is really tiring.


This is what I find most maddening about him, though - he is clearly a very intelligent person. If he was just a simpleton using big words to sound smart, or some lame prankster, I think his "act" would have become transparent by now.

But I still can't see him genuinely believing the things he says, because he so often contradicts himself. He will praise a film for something, then condemn another film for the exact same reason he praised the other. And often this seems tied to his preference in filmmakers. He decides that he likes "Director A" more than "Director B", and sticks to that opinion regardless of how much sense it doesn't make when he breaks down his arguments.

I can't help but wonder, then, if he is actually pulling some kind of Any Kaufman-like joke on the entire film-loving and film-critiquing community.

[Spinal]

I will put forward the controversial idea that there is nothing all that interesting about Armond White.

[Watashi]

I will put forward the controversial idea that there is nothing all that interesting about Armond White.
Did you listen to the interview at all?

[Spinal]

Did you listen to the interview at all?

Why would I not take my own advice?

[Barty]

I'd be down. Sunday night would probably work best.

Yes, we shall!

[Derek]

I do not see this film as trying to relate to video games in any way, shape or form.

It doesn't matter whether the film tries to relate to video games. It deals with notions of reality that clearly can be related to the gaming experience. Unless you want to close off all roads of extra-textual inquiry, I don't see why you'd be so opposed to someone approaching the film this way. We'll have hundreds of critics discussing whether or not he was in limbo the whole time or the specifics of how events on one level effected another, so why not have some tackle it from a different angle?

[Derek]

Exactly.

Just because the word "levels" happens to be something that is often used to describe stages in a video game, does not mean that Nolan was intending the comparison.

Though I should say I agree with this. The levels of dreams really bares no similarity to levels in video games.

[amberlita]

Though I should say I agree with this. The levels of dreams really bares no similarity to levels in video games.

I got a real Metal Gear Solid feel from the snow fort set.

[number8]

Fan-made:

http://ibraheemyoussef.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Inception.jpg

[Barty]

Criterion cover for the win.

[Watashi]

Am I the only one seeing a penis?

[Derek]

Am I the only one seeing a penis?

Well, five oddly shaped penises, but penises nonetheless.

[Milky Joe]

I dunno, when people say "levels," video game levels aren't exactly what I think of first.

Maybe not always, but when you're talking about 'architects' (programmers) who are 'building' (programming) these 'levels' (uh, levels), it's pretty hard not to make the comparison, especially when the first shot of the whole 'snow level' is through a Modern Warfare-esque sniper's crosshair. Meg's just being awfully obtuse here, probably because he refuses to acknowledge Armond White's actually making a good point. The videogame connection is pretty fucking explicit if you ask me.

[B-side]

I mentioned the whole videogame connection in my poorly written blurb as soon as I got back from seeing it.

[Spinal]

It's not that the video game connection isn't there. It's just not what the film is really about at its core. It's not a terribly compelling approach to the film, in my opinion. Which leads me back to my thesis ... Armond White is not at all interesting.

[Milky Joe]

Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure that what the film is 'really about at its core' isn't terribly compelling either, or at least it's not communicated in any terribly compelling way.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Armond White!

[Derek]

So hey, how about instead of talking about how uncompelling Armond White is, you people who've seen the film address my damn question which, uncompelling as it may be, would at least have the benefit of not being Armond White-related and would earn you rep points from me for the love of christ.

[Rowland]

I like when the interviewer asked him "what did you think of the ideas expressed in the film - like the idea that an idea itself can change a person?"

His response?

"I didn't see that in the movie."For what it's worth, I didn't think the film explored this idea in a really compelling or illuminating way either. It's a clever action/heist flick first, a film of philosophical/existential inquiry distinctly second, at least in my estimation.
I mentioned the whole videogame connection in my poorly written blurb as soon as I got back from seeing it.Which brings me to my second point. I remember reading your initial response and thinking that sounds about right, only in the sense that the film intimates many possible thematic threads without following through on any of them to a satisfying degree. My point being, I suppose, that I didn't take anything away from the film, and reading this thread, I've been trying to figure out what many of you have been. Debate over the open-ended conclusion and other enigmatic suggestions throughout that this or that did or didn't occur in such or such way, it primarily appears. But what did it mean for everyone? Is it the film's nature as a puzzle box in of itself?

Spinal is the only person who has really seemed to feel a great deal about the film beyond admiration of its craft and scope, with the sort of cathartic reaction the film itself suggests is indicative of a really resonant inception, or in this case, film-going experience. He has even gone as far as to suggest that those of us who haven't responded to the film as he did don't share the same life experiences, and thus can't relate on an intrinsic level. Truth be told, I choked up during both Fischer and Cobb's respective moments of catharsis (the former with his father, the latter leveling with his "wife" in limbo), but they were only allusions to real feelings, both laid bare by Nolan as contrivances as he exposes the cogs of his intricately spun web. Maybe that's what the film is about, the artificiality of incepted catharsis?

[B-side]

It's a clever action/heist flick first, a film of philosophical/existential inquiry distinctly second, at least in my estimation.

Sounds about right, not that that is a bad thing.


Which brings me to my second point. I remember reading your initial response and thinking that sounds about right, only in the sense that the film intimates many possible thematic threads without following through on any of them to a satisfying degree. My point being, I suppose, that I didn't take anything away from the film, and reading this thread, I've been trying to figure out what many of you have been. Debate over the open-ended conclusion and other enigmatic suggestions throughout that this or that did or didn't occur in such or such way, it primarily appears. But what did it mean for everyone? Is it the film's nature as a puzzle box in of itself?

I can agree to a certain extent in that the threads were there to lead to a great thematic through-line, and that there seemed to be, and maybe this was just my jumbled thought process, a few starts and stops in terms of the aforementioned thematic threads. My mind would start down a road of analysis in how the film was addressing the creation of alternative realities, then I'd lose that train of thought and pick up one of the others I mentioned as they seemed more congruent with the narrative as it currently was. The film is totally a bit unwieldy in its ambitions, and it's not always the most brilliantly or creatively executed, but there are sufficient inspired moments and the zero g fight sequence brings to mind Cocteau's The Blood of a Poet, a film I love, so I'm a sucker for that ever since it was brought to mind post-viewing. I remember IGN's review mentioning Cocteau and my eyes widened a bit, though in a pretty skeptical manner. Basically, I've got this mess of ideas in my head of how to interpret and connect all these various ideas, themes and motifs in the film, but not the confidence nor the ability to articulate them, and for me I guess that speaks fairly well of the film that it has inspired this jumbled thought process at all as opposed to leaving me completely in the dark.

[Bosco B Thug]

Debate over the open-ended conclusion and other enigmatic suggestions throughout that this or that did or didn't occur in such or such way, it primarily appears. But what did it mean for everyone? Is it the film's nature as a puzzle box in of itself? The biggest emotional heft I get is from the kinship created between Cobb and Saito. Which is fuzzily developed, but the "become old men" line between them is the most meaningful line in the film for me. It speaks to the emotional fulfillment that can be achieved outside of one's guilt or one's amoral corporate work. The shoot 'em up/puzzle box dream is a cover for at-one-point off-putting men of amoral occupations to reveal themselves men who just want to feel warm and fuzzy inside.


Spinal is the only person who has really seemed to feel a great deal about the film beyond admiration of its craft and scope, with the sort of cathartic reaction the film itself suggests is indicative of a really resonant inception, or in this case, film-going experience. He has even gone as far as to suggest that those of us who haven't responded to the film as he did don't share the same life experiences, and thus can't relate on an intrinsic level. Truth be told, I choked up during both Fischer and Cobb's respective moments of catharsis (the former with his father, the latter leveling with his "wife" in limbo), but they were only allusions to real feelings, both laid bare by Nolan as contrivances as he exposes the cogs of his intricately spun web. Maybe that's what the film is about, the artificiality of incepted catharsis? This is a great way of looking at it. The film's craft still irks me, but this helps make the film seem like a big avant garde film - a commentary on its endless distractions and kitsch.

It also suggests: Do these men really deserve any of this catharsis? We feel happy for them for reaching emotional catharsis, but essentially, they're whole endeavor is pretty selfish and inconsiderate of any greater good.

[Morris Schæffer]

Argh. Thursday can't come soon enough here in Belgium!!!

[Dukefrukem]

Cobb and Saito died drowning in the van which caused them to wake up in the real world.


No, no, no. At the top dream level, they were woken up by the sedative wearing off. That's why they climbed out of the van and just sat on the riverbank. You don't have to die to wake up.


We still need to determine which one of you is right here...

[Dukefrukem]

I thought of something else... in the final scenes;


The kicks in the upper levels bring you back down a level.

Falling off building >>> Falling in explosion in Snow fortress >> Falling in elevator shaft >>> falling in van

However earlier in the movie, the reverse happened... Remember when leo was dumped in the bathtub to wake up in that dream...? that was also still a dream.

[amberlita]

We still need to determine which one of you is right here...

It was established earlier that dying in this particular dream world, given the heavy sedative that was added, wouldn't wake you up at all. It would propel you down into Limbo, which is where Saito went when we saw him die in the snow mountain hospital. That's why the stakes were so high this time, the normal rules didn't apply, so the "deaths" of Kaito and Cobb in the van wouldn't have had any effect.

Besides, if that did wake them up then they would have woken up before everybody else who were just waiting around on the side of the river for the sedative to wear off.

[amberlita]

Hmm. But wait a second...

Didn't they say a 10 hour flight would be a week in that dream level? I thought that was why they all needed to ride a kick out of there. They couldn't have sat by that river the entire time, or survived that long there with Fischer's defenses hunting them the entire time. So that says to me that they HAD to ride a kick out, right? So what was the kick? Or did they really wait around that long?

[Dukefrukem]

Hmm. But wait a second...

Didn't they say a 10 hour flight would be a week in that dream level? I thought that was why they all needed to ride a kick out of there. They couldn't have sat by that river the entire time, or survived that long there with Fischer's defenses hunting them the entire time. So that says to me that they HAD to ride a kick out, right? So what was the kick? Or did they really wait around that long?

That is correct. 10 hours of real world time gives 1 week in the first level dream, 6 months in the second level and 10 years in third level dream. Which is WHY they had to have kicks. They still needed to wait that week for the sedation to wear off I'm assuming. We just didn't see it.

My other post also needs to be addressed, about the direction of "kicks" and why there are two examples of it working both ways.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I wanted to like this more than I did. Unfortunately, there were too many bumps along the way that became impossible to ignore. First and foremost, the film felt bloated and repetitive. Waaaaaaay too many shootouts without any sense of real danger. Way too many sequences that seemed similar, or were similar. How many times did we need to see that van falling in slow-mo from the bridge, with everyone floating inside? It became a bore. Secondly, and more importantly, the dreamworlds were far too literal. Dreams aren't bound by human law. Dreams are wild and surreal and filled with things that don't make sense. Aside from shifting landscapes (which mostly happened because of conscious understanding or a shifting environment in the real world) everything was so straightforward. For such an imaginative concept, they really dropped the ball there.

Not only that, but there was one fundamental flaw with the logic of Leo's plight. It was obvious, from the moment inception is mentioned, that he performed it on his wife, but the reasoning is nonsense. Why did he need to go to all that trouble, when all he really needed to do was shove her off a building? Or push her in front of that train? They'd both die and wake up in the real world, and while she may be angry, she'd come to understand that he made the right choice. Inception wasn't necessary, and was just a cheap gimmick to push the plot.

Also, I wish the film had been a bit less obvious about telling us that Leo was the one undergoing an inception, and that Cillian Murphy was a manifestation of his subconscious to help his own emotional catharsis. I had that feeling for awhile, and liked that it was just a lingering thought, and then they go and show him coming home and his kids aren't any older and the top is about to stop spinning, and they basically beat that idea home just in case no one got it. Disappointing.

The film had its moments, and the ideas and concepts were fun and exciting, but the execution was lacking, something that has plagued nearly every Nolan film I've seen. Right now I'm giving it a passable rating, but to be honest, I don't think it'll stay that way. I woke up thinking less of the film than when I walked out of the theater last night.

[Fezzik]

Anyone have any ideas on this?

I saw it again last night, and Saito doesn't quote the train riddle at all.

What he says is "I was waiting for someone..." and then remembers Cobb, who says Saito is now an "old man filled with regret." Saito finishes with "..waiting to die alone."

Cob looks at Saito and says "Come, lets be young men together again" or something to that affect, then Saito picks up the gun and Leo wakes up in the plane.

[Fezzik]

Barty made a note that every time Cobb is dreaming, he has his wedding ring on and he has it off when he's not. Apparently at the very end, Cobb is not wearing it.

Saw this for the 2nd time last night, and...

I can confirm this is true. In the final scene, however, we never see his ring hand, so we're left wondering :)

[Dukefrukem]

Saw this for the 2nd time last night, and...

I can confirm this is true. In the final scene, however, we never see his ring hand, so we're left wondering :)


Special edition DVD with 10 seconds of extra footage.

[number8]

What kind of crazy-ass dreams do you people have? I dream some fantastical elements from time to time, but most of the time my dreams are set in familiar-looking environments that often convince me I'm awake.

[Kurosawa Fan]

What kind of crazy-ass dreams do you people have? I dream some fantastical elements from time to time, but most of the time my dreams are set in familiar-looking environments that often convince me I'm awake.

But aren't things strange? Maybe one of your friends are in the dream, only it's not really them, it's someone else. Or your apartment has an infinite number of rooms, or turns into a completely different building. Dreams don't follow logic and they have no rules. They aren't literal representations of the real world and the real people in your life (or at least, not very often). Nolan had the chance to do something wild and without rules, and instead he chose to go the safe, easy route, and it was disappointing.

[number8]

I think this was mentioned before in this thread, but the reason they had to have an architect present is so the dreams don't go out of control, it's so they look as much as reality as possible. Otherwise they'd have things like a choo-choo mowing down cars in downtown LA.

[B-side]

Did nobody read Buffalo's post a few pages back:


Guys, they were intentionally structured dreams. By design, they're not going to be as entirely surreal and nonsensical as a person's personal dreams - in fact, that's kind of the whole point of the movie, what with the conclusion it comes to about Leo's character.

[B-side]

I think this was mentioned before in this thread, but the reason they had to have an architect present is so the dreams don't go out of control, it's so they look as much as reality as possible. Otherwise they'd have things like a choo-choo mowing down cars in downtown LA.

Exactly.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I think this was mentioned before in this thread, but the reason they had to have an architect present is so the dreams don't go out of control, it's so they look as much as reality as possible. Otherwise they'd have things like a choo-choo mowing down cars in downtown LA.

Again.... boring. Dull. Dreams aren't controllable. They shouldn't be controllable. My problem is with the overall premise. I understand that the architect was there for that purpose, I'm saying it was a poor decision at the writing table. It made for mundane dream environments.

[Dukefrukem]

But aren't things strange?

Isn't there a line in the movie where things only appear strange when you wake up?

[Fezzik]

Isn't there a line in the movie where things only appear strange when you wake up?

"Dreams seem real while you're in them, its only after you wake up that you realize that something was strange, right?"

(or something like that).

Cobb said it to Ariadne during the cafe scene in the first "dream" he took her into.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Isn't there a line in the movie where things only appear strange when you wake up?

I wasn't sleeping, Duke. I was watching the movie. And if I'm awake, watching someone else's dream, it should seem strange to me.

[number8]

Again.... boring. Dull. Dreams aren't controllable. They shouldn't be controllable. My problem is with the overall premise. I understand that the architect was there for that purpose, I'm saying it was a poor decision at the writing table. It made for mundane dream environments.

May I recommend you, then:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/Thecellposter.jpg

[number8]

"Dreams seem real while you're in them, its only after you wake up that you realize that something was strange, right?"

(or something like that).

Cobb said it to Ariadne during the cafe scene in the first "dream" he took her into.

Yeah, but that was actually in response to making things illogical. The idea is that when you realize you're dreaming, you'll wake up, so Ariadne was afraid that if she can't make the dream world perfectly logical and realistic, Fischer would wake up. But Cobb assured her that people don't realize they're dreaming just because there are strange, illogical things in their dreams—it won't register to them that those things are strange until they wake up and think about them.

[Rowland]

Speaking of which, do they explain why Fischer doesn't remember any of them upon waking? Does he just forget the dream while the inception remains?

[number8]

Speaking of which, do they explain why Fischer doesn't remember any of them upon waking? Does he just forget the dream while the inception remains?

He probably has a blurry recollection, but I think it's normal to dream about the people around you.

[Dukefrukem]

Are people ignoring my questions because they don't have answers? I thought I had this movie finally understood...

[Raiders]

He probably has a blurry recollection, but I think it's normal to dream about the people around you.

Given that he is well aware of the extraction process and has defenses up, you'd think even a vague recollection would be pretty alarming to him.

[Spinal]

I think if you looked at the dream's from the perspective of Cillian Murphy's character, they would seem plenty strange. And in all honesty, more like a typical dream experience than the stuff in Paprika.

I dreamt that I was abducted by some men in masks. They interrogated me. They wanted to know the combination to the safe. But I couldn't remember.

I dreamt that I was at a hotel and a security guard approached me. Expect he said that he was trying to protect my subconscious and that men were going to try to attack me within my own mind.

I dreamt that I was an agent working on a mission in the mountains. I walked into a secret room and my father was there in his death bed. I opened a safe and a cherished item from my childhood was there.

This is much more like the dreams that I have than a parade of inanimate objects and animals that play instruments.

And besides that, the film establishes well what dreams mean and how they operate within the context of the film. It is internally consistent.

[Raiders]

The film is undoubtedly internally consistent, but for me, that's the problem. It was just all so dull and with the exception of the zero-gravity stunt, it was very rote cinema. I mean, honestly, that icy-level was a mediocre-at-best action/suspense film with a rather poorly-staged shootout and little to no sense of geographical layout. I mean, why the hell would someone even design that... why the heck is the vault so freakin' far away?

Yes, the overall story, the large points, are ambitious and well thought-out. And everything fits pretty well, leaves you thinking and questioning... but the individual pieces to me are just not very interesting or compelling. I will join those also who found it very cold and not much emotion. I thought Cobb's past would eventually be some sort of messy cog, but ultimately it comes to give definition to the finale, which is fine I guess, but it just added to the feeling that Nolan has such a tight-gripped control over everything and it all has its place... I dunno, but for a film that deals with our mind's deepest recesses, it felt very much like a traditional Hollywood film with more plot (and more exposition as well).

[Kurosawa Fan]

The film is undoubtedly internally consistent, but for me, that's the problem. It was just all so dull and with the exception of the zero-gravity stunt, it was very rote cinema. I mean, honestly, that icy-level was a mediocre-at-best action/suspense film with a rather poorly-staged shootout and little to no sense of geographical layout. I mean, why the hell would someone even design that... why the heck is the vault so freakin' far away?

Yes, the overall story, the large points, are ambitious and well thought-out. And everything fits pretty well, leaves you thinking and questioning... but the individual pieces to me are just not very interesting or compelling. I will join those also who found it very cold and not much emotion. I thought Cobb's past would eventually be some sort of messy cog, but ultimately it comes to give definition to the finale, which is fine I guess, but it just added to the feeling that Nolan has such a tight-gripped control over everything and it all has its place... I dunno, but for a film that deals with our mind's deepest recesses, it felt very much like a traditional Hollywood film with more plot (and more exposition as well).

This is EXACTLY how I feel. And the feeling is growing more intense the more I think back on it. Also, I felt the film had very little dramatic weight. I had almost no reaction to Leo finally seeing his kids. Almost no impact at all.

[number8]

So much for that "it's different when you have kids" theory.

[Kurosawa Fan]

So much for that "it's different when you have kids" theory.

Nope. And I'm usually very sensitive to that type of material, but I was so thoroughly bored and unengaged by the action and dreamworlds that I lost interest in the family drama.

[Dukefrukem]

I'm not gonna disagree that the snow fortress gun fight was very bland... but not everything needs to be so elaborate. Can you imagine if every dream level was as ambitious as the zero-gravity stunt? We can barely follow the movie as it is and you want it to be even crazier than it is. As for the "why hell would someone even design that?" question, isn't that the point? They want to create a labyrinth/loop to drag out the chases?

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm not gonna disagree that the snow fortress gun fight was very bland... but not everything needs to be so elaborate. Can you imagine if every dream level was as ambitious as the zero-gravity stunt? We can barely follow the movie as it is and you want it to be even crazier than it is. As for the "why hell would someone even design that?" question, isn't that the point? They want to create a labyrinth/loop to drag out the chases?

For me, it wasn't the elaboration that was dull, it was the lack of consequences. I've never seen so many missed shots from "bad guys" not even in a Steven Segal movie. I never felt any danger for anyone, even after Saito was shot. They just felt like really long exercises in endurance, and it dragged on far too long.

[Raiders]

As for the "why hell would someone even design that?" question, isn't that the point? They want to create a labyrinth/loop to drag out the chases?

Drag out the chases? With the armed security? They weren't aware of the security forces until they had already begun so no, I wouldn't think that was the point.

[Spinal]

So much for that "it's different when you have kids" theory.

I'm now going with the "it's different when you have a soul" theory.

I kid! I kid!

[Dukefrukem]

Drag out the chases? With the armed security? They weren't aware of the security forces until they had already begun so no, I wouldn't think that was the point.

No they were expecting resistance from Fischer's subconscious. They weren't expecting "militarized" resistance.

[Spinal]

I'm sorry you guys didn't have the same experience with this film that a lot of us did. For me, it is a film of high ambition and extraordinary execution. I was highly thrilled and deeply involved. Really devastated emotionally. The core love story is achingly beautiful and haunting in my opinion. I think looking at an individual action sequence or world kind of misses the mark. It's sort of like the people who said they wanted to watch Memento in chronological order. It's how everything fits together that is so stunning.

[Raiders]

I think looking at an individual action sequence or world kind of misses the mark. It's sort of like the people who said they wanted to watch Memento in chronological order.

I don't see how it is even remotely the same thing. Changing the ordering of Memento completely changes the actual film. I'm saying that the bulk of Inception is rote, unexciting cinema. Nothing I have railed against couldn't have been changed with the overriding "points" remaining intact.

[Dukefrukem]

Well said Spinal.

Couple of other things to support

Leo has been in limbo the whole time;

1. When Leo visits his grandfather for the first time, his grandfather says to him: "Come Back to Reality"

2. When they are visiting the Chemist for the first time and seeing all the dreamers sleeping, the old black man looks and Leo and says; "They come here to wake up... you of all people should know"

3. Ellen Page's character Ariadne, who's named after the Greek mythology character who led Theseus out of the Minotaur's labyrinth. If Leo is in limbo the whole time, Ariadne was planted in his dream to help lead him out of limbo.. unsuccessfully.


Just some food for thought.

[number8]

Here's a secret. This movie is actually perfect. Anyone who is underwhelmed by it just didn't realize that their doubts over its perfection was an inception.

[Watashi]

I'm now going with the "it's different when you have a soul" theory.

I kid! I kid!
Deep down, I don't think you do.

:P

[DavidSeven]

Can't say I understand the charges of emotional disengagement either. The person I saw this with cried repeatedly through the final 30 minutes of the film (from Cillian opening the safe onward). Maybe your guys's expectations caused you to approach this thing focusing too much on intellectualism. For me, the basic and simple humanism of the film was among its strengths.

[Spinal]

Can't say I understand the charges of emotional disengagement either. The person I saw this with cried repeatedly through the final 30 minutes of the film (from Cillian opening the safe onward). Maybe your guys's expectations caused you to approach this thing focusing too much on intellectualism. For me, the basic and simple humanism of the film was among its strengths.

The first scene that got to me was ...

... Cotillard's character in the basement of Cobb's subconscious. I found the idea of her trapped there with expectations of love and support to be profoundly, intensely sad.

[number8]

The more I think about it, the more unsatisfied I am with my official review. I may do a follow-up review.

[Fezzik]

Well said Spinal.

Couple of other things to support

Leo has been in limbo the whole time;

1. When Leo visits his grandfather for the first time, his grandfather says to him: "Come Back to Reality"

2. When they are visiting the Chemist for the first time and seeing all the dreamers sleeping, the old black man looks and Leo and says; "They come here to wake up... you of all people should know"

3. Ellen Page's character Ariadne, who's named after the Greek mythology character who led Theseus out of the Minotaur's labyrinth. If Leo is in limbo the whole time, Ariadne was planted in his dream to help lead him out of limbo.. unsuccessfully.


Just some food for thought.

In regards to #2...

What the man actually says to Cobb is: "They come here to wake up...who are you to say otherwise?" Which, to be honest, almost strengthens your position.

[Raiders]

The only scene I found myself getting much emotional over was the obvious one...


At the end, when he has to tell her they had their time and he needed to let her go. Cotillard sells that scene just brilliantly. The way she tries to look positively and softly beg him to be with her was pretty heartbreaking. But then, it's a personal thing for me that all scenes in films where loved ones must forever part; not sure why, but even The Notebook worked for me when Rowlands suddenly forgot him. The thought of the finality of it is awful.

[Rowland]

The only scene I found myself getting much emotional over was the obvious one...Yeah, that scene worked for me too, because I tend to respond to such material as you do (and it reminded me of the vastly superior Synecdoche, NY), but it is so jarring in the context of the film. Nolan didn't earn that moment for me, so while it struck a chord on an emotional level, I was left feeling conned on a cognizant level. Ditto the Fischer catharsis, since I have daddy issues as well, but his character is given no space to breathe.

[Rowland]

Another small moment that bothered me: Anyone else confounded by the "dare to dream big" scene? Sure, it makes for a solid bit of comedic relief, but I was immediately struck with the thought that if they can just imagine themselves with bigger/better guns to fight off Fischer's defenses, why aren't they doing shit like that more often?

[SirNewt]

Something that's been bugging me about the movie is the justification used for fucking with Fischer's head. A random business opponent, Saito, wants the empire broken because it's a monopoly. But Saito comes across, at first, as a corrupt businessman. We're just suddenly expected to accept him as a hero. In fact the whole main bunch behave as pretty clear cut heroes.

[Rowland]

But Saito comes across, at first, as a corrupt businessman. We're just suddenly expected to accept him as a hero.I wasn't sure what to make of Saito. His character has little to no discernible arc, so I was a bit befuddled by the emphasis on Cobb extracting him from limbo, the lack of emphasis on Cobb's emotional journey in doing so, and particularly the "grow old together" line. Bosco identified it as the key emotional scene for him, but it left me with a quizzically arched eyebrow at best, and that was largely because the scene made a distinct point of cutting away after the gun is introduced, rendered it another esoteric puzzle piece.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Another small moment that bothered me: Anyone else confounded by the "dare to dream big" scene? Sure, it makes for a solid bit of comedic relief, but I was immediately struck with the thought that if they can just imagine themselves with bigger/better guns to fight off Fischer's defenses, why aren't they doing shit like that more often?

That was something that I caught as well, but I believe earlier discussion stated that if they make it too clear that they are intruding in someone else's subconscious (the grenade launcher, after all, is an "inception" of sorts), that subconscious more strongly fights back. So if they decide to imagine themselves up a jet fighter or something, the subconscious is gonna start freaking the fuck out.

[number8]

Something that's been bugging me about the movie is the justification used for fucking with Fischer's head. A random business opponent, Saito, wants the empire broken because it's a monopoly. But Saito comes across, at first, as a corrupt businessman. We're just suddenly expected to accept him as a hero. In fact the whole main bunch behave as pretty clear cut heroes.

I don't believe so. This is, after all, a corporate matter. Cobb and Arthur aren't exactly dream knights. They're thieves. I never took Saito's explanation for his motives as a "OMG Monopoly is evil we have to stop this!" speech. It was more in the corporate interest of their monopoly being bad for the business climate in general, and especially Saito's own business. The thing between Saito and Cobb is a transaction, not a common heroic quest.

Remember also that Saito had no idea if Cobb really killed his wife or not. He was just gonna clear him of all charges regardless, as long as Cobb does what he asks him to do. They are not clear cut heroes. Even Ariadne didn't show any resistance when Cobb came to her and flat out said, "Well, the job's not exactly legal." She didn't care. None of them cared. It was just a job.

I mean, the whole thing is pretty shady to begin with. They're there to rewrite a guy's relationship with his dad.

[Mysterious Dude]

Cillian Murphy's character is also pretty sympathetic. But if Saito is a hero, is Cillian Murphy a villain?

[Dukefrukem]

In regards to #2...

What the man actually says to Cobb is: "They come here to wake up...who are you to say otherwise?" Which, to be honest, almost strengthens your position.

Bah. I need to see this a second time... and a third probably. I need an Inception avatar.

[megladon8]

I have to agree with those who have said that the straight-forwardness of the dream worlds was hardly a fault.

I really believe - again, as others have said already - that if the dream worlds were any crazier or harder to follow, the film itself would be next to impossible to keep straight.

Frankly, I think it's amazing that they were able to keep it as straight-forward as it was.

[Russ]

I must admit, I do think it's a good thing to see so many that are so passionate about the film (tho I'm not among them). These discussions have actually got me looking forward to a rewatch, which is more than I felt upon first leaving the theater.

[EyesWideOpen]

I have to agree with those who have said that the straight-forwardness of the dream worlds was hardly a fault.

I really believe - again, as others have said already - that if the dream worlds were any crazier or harder to follow, the film itself would be next to impossible to keep straight.

Frankly, I think it's amazing that they were able to keep it as straight-forward as it was.

Yep. I don't know what kind of dreams most people have but mine are usually quite boring and deal with real life situations in places I'm usually at. I can't remember the last time I had any sort of "fantastical" dream.

[Dead & Messed Up]

The dreams are constructed by an architect toward a specific purpose. The people who plug into the constructed dreamscape need that regularity. The mundanity makes the sudden bursts of surreality throw us off-balance.

That said, a little more Escher stuff would've been fun.