Ong Bak 2

[lovejuice]

so it's better than Tom Yum Koong. much better in fact. among the "better" modern thai martial art films. up there with the original Ong Bak and Dynamite Warrior.

don't go in expect the movie to be complete though. the worse part is, this is not one of the holding-your-breath-for-sequel incompleteness. more like we-are-running-out-of-money.

it's proven then that Tony Jaa is the actual force behind and in front of the original Ong Bak, and Pinkaew is a semi-hack.

[Ezee E]

Can't wait.

[megladon8]

I hope there are less elbows-to-the-head in this one.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I hope there are less elbows-to-the-head in this one.

Don't forget about knees too.

Ong-Bak sucked. Not interested in another Jaa film.

[megladon8]

Don't forget about knees too.

Ong-Bak sucked. Not interested in another Jaa film.


That girl's voice ruined it for me.

It's like she was stuck on "complain" for the entire movie.

[Kurosawa Fan]

That girl's voice ruined it for me.

It's like she was stuck on "complain" for the entire movie.

I bought it for my dad for his birthday because I had heard such good things. I wish I had watched it first. He didn't like it either. I hate giving a crap gift.

[megladon8]

I bought it for my dad for his birthday because I had heard such good things. I wish I had watched it first. He didn't like it either. I hate giving a crap gift.


I bought it for my dad for his birthday, too.

And I, too, was left feeling shame and regret...

[Stay Puft]

Good to hear.

But after Chocolate, I'm not going to write off Pinkaew. He seems to be strengthening his craft, and might actually pull off a great movie at some point (as long as somebody gives him a halfway decent script for a change).

[Ezee E]

Every Tony Jaa I've seen has been great entertainment. The Protector was one of the best theater experiences I've had period. I'm there day one.

[lovejuice]

Good to hear.

But after Chocolate, I'm not going to write off Pinkaew. He seems to be strengthening his craft, and might actually pull off a great movie at some point (as long as somebody gives him a halfway decent script for a change).

i actually like chocolate, but pinkaew has this stupid tendency to exploit and "post-modernize" his film by peopling it with spectrum of freak characters.

also i think, he, or at lest his team, writes his own script.

[Stay Puft]

also i think, he, or at lest his team, writes his own script.

Yeah, I got the impression his "team" writes his scripts. I'm saying they need to give him better scripts (and it always seems to be different people, according to imdb). Action is great, he seems to be developing his style, writing is groan inducing.

You're right about the "freaks," though. I was bothered by that in The Protector (I originally wrote offended, but I suppose that's a strong reaction to take regarding their conservative politics). He's a producer/director, so I suppose if that's his bag then those elements are here to stay.

[number8]

Wasn't the tranny bit cut out of The Protector? I only have the Tom Yum Goong version so I don't know for sure.

[number8]

I hope there are less elbows-to-the-head in this one.

And I wish Jet Li would stop kicking people in the face in his movies.

Silly.

[Stay Puft]

I guess I should have been more careful with the film titles - I haven't seen The Protector, either. The tranny is the villain, though, so it's probably the backstage family politics stuff that got cut.

Checking imdb simply tells me that it was cut by about thirty (!) minutes.

edit - wow, German and French versions too. Massive cuts and new scores. Which would be preferable: RZA or indeterminate French hip hop artist? :)

[Skitch]

I can't get enough elbows to the top of the head.

*watches line of matchcutters form*

Har, har, you know what I meant.

[megladon8]

And I wish Jet Li would stop kicking people in the face in his movies.

Silly.


At least kicking someone in the face will hurt them more than it hurts you.

Elbowing someone in the top of the head is only going to break your elbow. It's like punching someone in the back of the head.

[Skitch]

At least kicking someone in the face will hurt them more than it hurts you.

Elbowing someone in the top of the head is only going to break your elbow. It's like punching someone in the back of the head.

Really? Wow, I disagree...

[megladon8]

Really? Wow, I disagree...


You think punching someone in the back of the head is a good idea?

[Skitch]

You think punching someone in the back of the head is a good idea?

Not as much as elbowing the top of the their head. You could kill a guy elbowing them that way.

[megladon8]

Not as much as elbowing the top of the their head. You could kill a guy elbowing them that way.


Yeah you could certainly compact their neck.

But seriously...you really aren't doing yourself any favors with that move. If the guy moves even a bit before your elbow gets to him, you could be hitting him with the tip of your elbow = broken elbow, hand never works right again.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it if he didn't do it in every fight in the movie.


EDIT: BTW, great avatar :lol:

[Skitch]

Yeah you could certainly compact their neck.

But seriously...you really aren't doing yourself any favors with that move. If the guy moves even a bit before your elbow gets to him, you could be hitting him with the tip of your elbow = broken elbow, hand never works right again.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it if he didn't do it in every fight in the movie.


EDIT: BTW, great avatar :lol:


Thanks! I can't get enough venture brothers. :)

It can get excessive I suppose, but elbows and knees are used alot in muy ti. If you used the point of your elbow, yes, you would be boned. When sparring with my ex loser brother in law, when he would get inside my reach (my only advantage on him), I always resorted to my elbows to his head. It was my only weapon at that point. They've saved my rear more than once. While you wouldn't see me flying into a room leading with my elbow, it is pretty cool to see in film.

Hey, I'm just proud of the fact I avoided a donkey punch joke when you asked if punching in the back of the head was a good idea. :lol:

[megladon8]

Thanks! I can't get enough venture brothers. :)

It can get excessive I suppose, but elbows and knees are used alot in muy ti. If you used the point of your elbow, yes, you would be boned. When sparring with my ex loser brother in law, when he would get inside my reach (my only advantage on him), I always resorted to my elbows to his head. It was my only weapon at that point. They've saved my rear more than once. While you wouldn't see me flying into a room leading with my elbow, it is pretty cool to see in film.

Yeah this is true.

Another film(s) with a lot of elbow strikes are Nolan's "Batman" films. The martial art Batman uses in that film is key-si (I think that's how it's spelled...) and it uses elbows almost exclusively, for both offensive and defensive moves.

It's that whole, as you say, flying into a room leading with an elbow in Ong-Bak that made me :rolleyes:



Hey, I'm just proud of the fact I avoided a donkey punch joke when you asked if punching in the back of the head was a good idea. :lol:

:lol:

[number8]

I guess I should have been more careful with the film titles - I haven't seen The Protector, either. The tranny is the villain, though, so it's probably the backstage family politics stuff that got cut.

Checking imdb simply tells me that it was cut by about thirty (!) minutes.

edit - wow, German and French versions too. Massive cuts and new scores. Which would be preferable: RZA or indeterminate French hip hop artist? :)

No, I heard that in The Protector they removed all references to the villain being a tranny. She's just a woman there.

[Stay Puft]

Ah, I misunderstood. That makes sense, though - I think the only time someone actually calls her a tranny is when the extended family is bickering about succession (either before or after she poisons her "competition"). Still, it kinda remains obvious without.

[lovejuice]

poor pinkaew. can't ever keep his villain "straight".

i'm not saying he's homophobic or intentionally paints a gay person villainous color, but he, along with many mis-guided thai director, thinks that to put as many freaks in a movie is to be "post-modern," read liberal in thai. why do we need a farang monk in tom yum koong, or a japanese father in chocolate?

[Stay Puft]

but he, along with many mis-guided thai director, thinks that to put as many freaks in a movie is to be "post-modern," read liberal in thai.

That's interesting. I'm obviously speaking from a different cultural context, but Tony Jaa's quests always struck me as conservative in their politics - I mean, the whole point of Tony Jaa going forth and delivering elbows and knees to bad guys is to contain a serious threat to traditional morals. There's an early sequence in Tom yum goong that juxtaposes the traditional rituals of Tony Jaa's clan with the "bad guys" who sit around drinking alcohol and doing drugs. Tony Jaa proceeds to beat them down with his elbows and knees. Drugs and alcohol serve as convenient shorthand for "bad morals."

Similarly, the villain being a tranny is an extension of her threat to the status quo. She upsets religious tradition (kills the elephant) and familial hierarchy (kills her relatives) and has to be "contained" as such. Her sexual status destabilizes conventional gender roles, and so again, she has to be "contained." Tony Jaa contains her with his elbows and knees, and returns everything to its proper place in the status quo (heteronormativity, patriarchy, traditional religious values, etc.).

[number8]

That's interesting. I'm obviously speaking from a different cultural context, but Tony Jaa's quests always struck me as conservative in their politics - I mean, the whole point of Tony Jaa going forth and delivering elbows and knees to bad guys is to contain a serious threat to traditional morals. There's an early sequence in Tom yum goong that juxtaposes the traditional rituals of Tony Jaa's clan with the "bad guys" who sit around drinking alcohol and doing drugs. Tony Jaa proceeds to beat them down with his elbows and knees. Drugs and alcohol serve as convenient shorthand for "bad morals."

Similarly, the villain being a tranny is an extension of her threat to the status quo. She upsets religious tradition (kills the elephant) and familial hierarchy (kills her relatives) and has to be "contained" as such. Her sexual status destabilizes conventional gender roles, and so again, she has to be "contained." Tony Jaa contains her with his elbows and knees, and returns everything to its proper place in the status quo (heteronormativity, patriarchy, traditional religious values, etc.).

Why? Why are you doing this? :sad:

[lovejuice]

Tony Jaa contains her with his elbows and knees.

this sentence is mother-lovin' awesome.

anyway, i agree with you. thailand is after all and in many ways an extremely conservative society. notice that in ong bak, it's preferable that a man sacrifice his life for an ancient, holy object than going back to serve his community. in other words, the lifeless buddha head is more essential to the peace and prosperity of the community than a life of her son.

at the same time, there is this movement in thai cinema to "represent" minorities, especially the homosexual. it has been done in a pretty tasteless way. so rather than humanify minorities, lesser directors exploit them and encourage stereotypes. so in a way, it's a conservative candy in liberal wrap-up.

[Stay Puft]

Pretty good overall, though I have some reservations.

It's a much, much better film than Ong bak or Tom yum goong, though the action is inconsistent. The first Ong bak might still win for sheer stunt spectacle, glorified stunt reel that it is, though even Chocolate was more successful in some ways in terms of scene construction. Some of the action here is still great, of course, and the drunken boxing scene in the middle of the movie is the highlight, as good as or better than anything in the previous films. The first part, when Tony Jaa beats up a dozen dudes without even getting up off the ground, is awesome, and then goes on to serve as a great juxtaposition for the second wave of opponents, at which point Tony Jaa does get up off the ground so you know it's on like Donkey Kong.

What's not as good is when Tony Jaa is fighting two people at once, which happens a couple times during the climax, and the choreography or at least the execution is just kind of weak, because all I can do in this situation is watch the dude that is currently not being punched or kicked, and marvel and how obvious it is that he's watching Tony Jaa to make sure he times his move right, or to wait for Tony Jaa to hit him. Those kinds of scenes always slow a fight sequence down and just make it uninteresting. If you're not going to do something more ambitious than that, just settle for the one guy at a time cliche, because it worked just fine in the drunken boxing scene.

The best part of the film is the narrative, as it went in directions I was not expecting. It made good use of non-linear storytelling to withhold information or reveal it later, which allowed the movie to layer thematics gracefully and intertwine it with some well paced action scenes. The training stuff at the beginning, with the mix of martial arts styles, was entertaining and engaging if only on a superficial level, but resonates in different ways as the story progresses. But, again, it's a mixed bag, because... well, I have no idea what to make of the ending, or lack thereof. It basically fades to black while a narrator appears and says that if we all believe in Tony Jaa, there'll be a sequel! I mean, I love the final shot. It's alluring. But that's because there's no context. It just randomly ends when you least expect it.

[D_Davis]

at the same time, there is this movement in thai cinema to "represent" minorities, especially the homosexual. it has been done in a pretty tasteless way. so rather than humanify minorities, lesser directors exploit them and encourage stereotypes. so in a way, it's a conservative candy in liberal wrap-up.

Totally. This has been happening for a few (many?) years. It seem like there is some extreme gay or transexual character in almost every Thai film I see. Maybe I just have a good radar for picking them out...

[lovejuice]

well, I have no idea what to make of the ending, or lack thereof.
in case you don't know. tony jaa had this falling out with the head executive of Sahamongkol film, the production house that funds the movie. so the ending has to come abruptly because they just don't have anymore money.

good news are that turn out enough people believe in tony jaa, so now they are shooting the third film. :)