A Christmas Tale - Desplechin (2008)

[Dillard]

So, I saw this one yesterday and I had a hard time with it. You folks that put it on your best of the year lists, I'd like to converse with you. Why did you like it?

[ledfloyd]

review here (http://ledfloyd18.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/a-christmas-tale-desplechin-2008/)

[Dillard]

*Spoilers*

In response to your review, ledfloyd, I would say that it was not a joy for me to get to know these characters. You're right that we are privy to a good amount of information about them, as the story's perspective often shifts in its point of view. However, the more time spent with, the eldest daughter, for example, only left me more and more frustrated. It was HARD for me to listen to her self-absorbed monologues, mixed in with her blind melancholia and hatred for her brother. Then, what kind of mother reveals to her son, nonchalantly that she's never liked him, and what kind of son takes it in stride, as if there's an unspoken pact between them that in this particular family, they are emotionally and intellectually above the normal familial bonds? What kind of wife claims that she loves her husband, but then sleeps with a man she's never given much thought to in full view of her husband and kids in her husband's childhood home, and what kind of husband simply shakes his head in response, and later, acts as if nothing has happened? And finally, what kind of director lightly sidesteps the normal human reactions to these situations? Perhaps I live in an alternate universe in the mid-west here or perhaps I'm too old-fashioned to understand the complex values and situations presented in a modern French film. Perhaps that's it. But the bottom line for me was, I didn't enjoy spending time with most of these characters (although it's hard not to like the dad or Faunia) and I found the director's treatment of the issues in play a little frustrating.

[ledfloyd]

perhaps the characters weren't likable, but that doesn't mean they weren't human. i thought we were given a very complete view of them and i found them and the way they interacted fascinating.

[Spaceman Spiff]

SPOILERS

Saw this last night and I agree with Dillard, although I think I liked it a little more than he did. I suppose I just didn't buy the level of dysfunctionality, and was unsure on Descheplin's handling of the entire Elizabeth/Henri quarrel, primarily because even though Henri is a scoundrel, I couldn't sympathize with Elizabeth at all, and I think this is what Descheplin was trying to do here. She was horribly pretentious and self-absorbed, and didn't seem to have much of a reason to hate Henri so much (with the exception of the contents of that letter which I don't think was ever fully explained - a little too coy from Descheplin again).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a lot of the familial dynamics rang false (the entire Sylvia subplot where she has sex with the lesser Simon in front of her husband was silly to me, for example), and I'm not sure I agree with Deschinplin's attitudes towards certain members of the family. I did like quite a bit of it though. The direction is always engaging, and Amalric is amazing (yet again), but I dunno... didn't like this as much as I thought I would.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I don't think Descheplin was trying to get the viewer to sympathize with Elizabeth at all. I don't think he was attempting sympathy with any of the characters. And I also think you guys are looking too much into the dysfunction angle. It's obvious Henri did something to hurt Elizabeth enough to help justify her actions against him (hence the letter, which I'm glad they kept private), and Henri has been a bigger wreck than usual since that time, but aside from him there wasn't that much dysfunction to speak of. Elizabeth suffers from depression, which has been passed on to her son, but that's hardly dysfunction. As for the conversation on the swing between Henri and his mother, I think that's partly in jest. I think there's obvious animosity between them, a fractured relationship, but the talk of not loving each other is exaggeration, and I think the love was obvious when you look beyond their words and just take into account their body language and their facial expressions.

I do however agree that the affair and the reaction to it were a misstep. It came off as silly and contrived. The backstory was enough to justify the affair, but its non-chalance at being discovered, both from husband and wife, was a head-scratcher.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1. Maybe it's me not getting over my personal preferences, but I love Amalric too much and found it hard to be angry with him in regards to whatever it is he did to Elizabeth (and I do think that this vagueness is coy and poorly chosen, as Elizabeth doesn't have much of a leg to stand on.) The fact that she reiterated every second line that Henri was a scoundrel, or an asshole (or what have you) made her annoying, not to mention her continuous pontification on why she is so depressed (counterbalance this with Henri's legitimate query as to why he is universally hated, along with his eloquently melancholic letter to Elizabeth - this recital was easily my favorite 'scene' of the film).

2. I agree with you KF regarding Henri's relationship to his mother. I joke with my mom like that all the time, and we get along reasonably well, I reckon'.

3. Yeah, that entire affair thing - didn't buy it. Any of it. It was a series of missteps as far as I was concerned. Ivan seemed like the one genuinely good guy (other than Abel) in the entire movie. Why would Sylvia bother cheating on him with the much uglier and bigger loser in Simon? And why would Ivan brush this aside? Very silly.

[Kurosawa Fan]

1. Maybe it's me not getting over my personal preferences, but I love Amalric too much and found it hard to be angry with him in regards to whatever it is he did to Elizabeth (and I do think that this vagueness is coy and poorly chosen, as Elizabeth doesn't have much of a leg to stand on.) The fact that she reiterated every second line that Henri was a scoundrel, or an asshole (or what have you) made her annoying, not to mention her continuous pontification on why she is so depressed (counterbalance this with Henri's legitimate query as to why he is universally hated, along with his eloquently melancholic letter to Elizabeth - this recital was easily my favorite 'scene' of the film).

See, for me Henri came off just as annoying as Elizabeth. He made have had a few highlights, but for the most part he was combative and obnoxious. I don't think there was a good side to choose, as there isn't in most family matters like this. Both sides are equally justified and to blame, because grudges and pettiness are immature and damaging.

As for hiding the contents of the letter, I think it put us in the same position as the rest of the family. In fact, for most of the film that's how I felt, like I was a friend or relative sitting in on this "celebration", and knowing the letter exists but having no idea as to what it contained just highlighted this feeling. Whatever took place is too embarrassing for both Henri and Elizabeth to share, as evidenced by the fact that neither of them was using it to justify their side of the fight. It's an intensely private matter, and keeping it private even from the viewer was the right move.

[Dillard]

Elizabeth suffers from depression, which has been passed on to her son, but that's hardly dysfunction.I think that depression could be considered dysfunction, and that in Elizabeth's case, it certainly is. Her depression hinders her from functioning normally in many of her relationships. I'm led to believe that it is her depression that causes her to react so strongly and hatefully toward her brother, as she goes to every length to keep him on the outside of the family. She cares more about who will be offering the bone marrow transplant than about her mother, and I do think that is the depression talking. It keeps her focused inward. It is dysfunctional for her. Now, I do agree that Desplechin is dealing with more than dysfunction in the film, but Elizabeth's depression, that emptiness that she privately admits to her psychologist might come from the premature loss of her older brother, is a huge reason behind her actions, and a huge reason for the rift in the family.

But all that aside, KF, why did you like the film?