Match Cut Directors Consensus - Cheh Chang

[dreamdead]

We're starting Week 2 with martial arts filmmaker Cheh Chang. Prove me wrong, Match Cut. Get past one page of reviews on this one. :P

http://www.lifeinlegacy.com/2002/0628/ChehChang.jpg

[Ezee E]

D_Davis hasn't been around. We'll be failing you dreamdead.

The One-Armed Swordsman - 9
Five Deadly Venoms - 10

Netflix has the movie I want to see from him on a "very long wait" :(

Any other recommendations out there?

[dreamdead]

I'll be watching a dubbed copy of The Boxer from Shantung before this consensus is over. I know that that's the film that Daniel always raved over. That said, I had to order my copy from Amazon, as it's not in at Netflix.

Have Sword Will Travel - 6.5
The Boxer from Shantung - 10
Five Deadly Venoms - 9

[Spinal]

*blank stare*

[soitgoes...]

One-Armed Swordsman (1967) - 8.0
The Assassin (1967) - 8.0
Golden Swallow (1968) - 6.5
Return of the One-Armed Swordsman (1969) - 8.0
The Flying Dagger (1969) - 7.0
The Invisible Fist (1969) - 7.5
Have Sword, Will Travel (1969) - 7.0
The Wandering Swordsman (1970) - 6.0
Vengeance (1970) - 7.0
Duel of Fists (1971) - 6.0
Boxer from Shantung (1972) - 7.0

Amazingly consistent, but kinda bordering on boring at this point. I need to delve into his later work.

[D_Davis]

Heard this was going on...

Had to participate. One of the most important directors who ever lived.

Been too busy with other projects to post here, hope you all are doing well!

:)


Trail of the Broken Sword (1967) - 5
The One-Armed Swordsman (1967) - 9
The Assassin (1967) - 6
The Golden Swallow (1968) - 7
Return of the One-Armed Swordsman (1969) - 10
Flying Dagger (1969) - 8
Have Sword Will Travel (1969) - 8
The New One-Armed Swordsman (1971) - 7
The Duel (1971) - 6
The Anonymous Heroes (1971) - 4
The Deadly Duo (1971) - 6
The Boxer from Shantung (codirected with Bao Xueli, 1972) - 10
The Water Margin (codirected with Wu Ma and Bao Xueli, 1972) - 4
Blood Brothers (1973) - 6
Heroes Two (1974) - 7
Men from the Monastery (1974) - 7
Shaolin Martial Arts (1974) - 8
Na Cha the Great (1974) - 3
Five Shaolin Masters (1974) - 8
All Men Are Brothers II (codirected with Wu Man, 1975) - 6
Disciples of Shaolin (1975) - 9
The Magnificent Trio - 7
The Fantastic Magic Baby (1975) - 7
The Bloody Escape (1975) - 5
Marco Polo (1975) - 6
The Shaolin Temple (1976) - 10
The Brave Archer (1977) - 8
The Chinatown Kid (1977) - 7
The Brave Archer, Part Two (1978) - 6
The Five Venoms (1978) - 9
Invincible Shaolin (1978) - 8
Crippled Avengers (1978) - 9
Avenging Warriors (1979) - 7
The Daredevils (1979) - 7
The Kid With the Golden Arm (1979) - 10
Ten Tigers from Kuangtung (1979) - 8
Ode to Gallantry (1980) - 5
Flag of Iron (1980) - 6
Heaven and Hell (1980) - 6
Two Champions of Shaolin (1980) - 9
The Brave Archer, Part Three (1981) - 5
The Sword Stained with Royal Blood (1981) - 5
Masked Avengers (1981) - 5
Five Element Ninjas (1982) - 10
The Weird Man (1983) - 6
The Nine Demons (1984) - 7
Ninja in Ancient China (1989) - 5

[Raiders]

The One-Armed Swordsman (1967) 6.5
Five Deadly Venoms (1978) 7.0

Don't know that this is really the genre for me, though I did enjoy both movies.

[megladon8]

D, why did you skip so many of the films before the '70s?

The One-Armed Swordsman, and what I thought was one of your very favorites, The Return of the One-Armed Swordsman!

[Stay Puft]

The One-Armed Swordsman (1967) - 7
One-Armed Swordsman Returns (1969) - 6
New One-Armed Swordsman (1971) - 7
Five Element Ninja (1982) - 8.5

I was hoping to see more for the consensus, but forgot he was coming up this early. Probably won't have any time this week.

[D_Davis]

D, why did you skip so many of the films before the '70s?

The One-Armed Swordsman, and what I thought was one of your very favorites, The Return of the One-Armed Swordsman!

Woops!

Bad cut 'n paste job.

:)

Added to original post.

[Ezee E]

and like that... he is gone. :(

Enlighten us with Cheh Chang movie info D!

Brett Ratner would get two pages! heh.

[Stay Puft]

Who will have less of a turnout: Cheh Chang or King Hu?

[SirNewt]

Ds viewing of Chen Chang is mind blowing. Kurosawa and Hitchcock are probably my two most viewed directors and neither list can compare to that behemoth.

[D_Davis]

Brett Ratner would get two pages! heh.

That's pretty sad, and true.

Especially considering how many amazing films Chang made, and how he helped to shape an entire genre.

He is to the martial genre (both the wuxia pian and the kung fu pian), what Leone is to the spaghetti western - except Chang made way more films.

The Box From Shantung is his Once Upon a Time in the West. I think it is the best martial arts film and best gangster film ever made. The amount of detail poured over in that film is mind blowing; everything about it is absolute perfection.

I think he directed over 100 movies in his life time.

That is awesome.

Perhaps only Lau Kar Leung can rival him.

[Ezee E]

The Boxer from Shangtung... not on Netflix. :(

[D_Davis]

The Boxer from Shangtung... not on Netflix. :(

No - I highly recommend the Celestial/IVL HK DVD.

The dubbed version out there isn't bad, at all (it's actually the way I first saw the film, and the dubbing is pretty good), but a film like this - like say Seven Samurai, or any other classic foreign film - really needs to be seen in the original language.

It really bothers me that Kurosawa's genre films get the A+ treatment by the likes of Criterion here in the States, and yet Chang's filmography, one equally as important and groundbreaking, goes largely unnoticed. It's very odd where people draw their lines between what is just genre entertainment and what is fine cinema.

But I've said all that before!

:)

[Raiders]

Hm, as far as martial arts/Chinese action films go, I vastly preferred Tsui Hark's The Blade to either film from Cheh Chang. But, my exposure to both is so limited.

[D_Davis]

I should point out, though, that Chang definitely made his share of B-grade films, designed solely to entertain.

I might argue that The Five Venoms was his last work of great cinema, before he began to slum it more in the ghetto. Once he began work with the Venom Mob, his third period, he began to crank out a number of films that, while entertaining and fun, were not near the caliber of his earlier films.

And while I love films like Five Element Ninja (Chinese Super Ninjas) and Kid With the Golden Arm, I don't love them for the same reasons as The Boxer From Shantung, or Shaolin Temple.

If you're looking for recommendations:

First period (worked mainly with Jimmy Wang Yu and Cheng Pei Pei):

The One-Armed Swordsman (1967) - 9
The Golden Swallow (1968) - 7
Return of the One-Armed Swordsman (1969) - 10
Flying Dagger (1969) - 8


Second Period (worked mainly with David Chiang, Ti Lung, and Chen Kuan Tai):

The Boxer from Shantung (codirected with Bao Xueli, 1972) - 10
Shaolin Martial Arts (1974) - 8
Five Shaolin Masters (1974) - 8
Disciples of Shaolin (1975) - 9
The Shaolin Temple (1976) - 10

Third Period (worked mainly with the Venoms):

The Five Venoms (1978) - 9
Crippled Avengers (1978) - 9
The Kid With the Golden Arm (1979) - 10
Ten Tigers from Kuangtung (1979) - 8
Heaven and Hell (1980) - 6
Two Champions of Shaolin (1980) - 9
Five Element Ninjas (1982) - 10
The Weird Man (1983) - 6


Good articles:

Senses of Cinema
http://archive.sensesofcinema.com/contents/directors/03/chang.html

(WARNING - make sure you have your spyware/malware filter on before clicking this link below. It contains a wealth of great articles, but it looks like the site has been hacked)

http://changcheh.0catch.com/chchfilm.htm

I will post the 2 best articles, cut and pasted from my own archive (that site is a mindfield of adware)...

[D_Davis]

Nevermnd, the articles are too long to post.

[D_Davis]

Hm, as far as martial arts/Chinese action films go, I vastly preferred Tsui Hark's The Blade to either film from Cheh Chang. But, my exposure to both is so limited.

With[out] Chang Cheh, there would be no The Blade. I love Tsui as well (my favorite filmmaker), but it all comes from Cheng Cheh, King Hu and Lau Kar Leung.

[Raiders]

With Chang Cheh, there would be no The Blade. I love Tsui as well (my favorite filmmaker), but it all comes from Cheng Cheh, King Hu and Lau Kar Leung.

Yeah, I know this. I do love both King Hu films I have seen.

[D_Davis]

With Chang, I think it might take a while for outsiders to grow accustomed to the Shaw Brothers aesthetic. Because they were basically a movie factory, many of their films had a distinct artificial look to them. In many ways this emulated the stage productions of the Chinese operas, and it also drew attention to the fact that these films were largely made on small soundstages. The earlier Shaw films had a lot of location shooting, but later, when money started becoming tight and more of an issue, the Shaws made the directors work solely on the back lot - even someone with Chang's clout. To the HK film industry, Chang was not a superstar, or a director with power, he was just another cog in the machine that was the SB.

I can see this look hard for some people to digest.

[Stay Puft]

With[out] Chang Cheh, there would be no The Blade. I love Tsui as well (my favorite filmmaker), but it all comes from Cheng Cheh, King Hu and Lau Kar Leung.

Speaking of which, have we done Lau Kar Leung in this consensus project yet? I can't remember, but I know we've covered the others (Tsui Hark last year, Chang Cheh and King Hu this year).

[Ezee E]

No Leung just yet.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Five Deadly Venoms - 8.0

[D_Davis]

Is that it?

[megladon8]

With Chang, I think it might take a while for outsiders to grow accustomed to the Shaw Brothers aesthetic. Because they were basically a movie factory, many of their films had a distinct artificial look to them. In many ways this emulated the stage productions of the Chinese operas, and it also drew attention to the fact that these films were largely made on small soundstages. The earlier Shaw films had a lot of location shooting, but later, when money started becoming tight and more of an issue, the Shaws made the directors work solely on the back lot - even someone with Chang's clout. To the HK film industry, Chang was not a superstar, or a director with power, he was just another cog in the machine that was the SB.

I can see this look hard for some people to digest.



I see what you're saying, but myself, I can't imagine not loving the aesthetic.

A lot of those Shaw Brothers films are gorgeous.

[soitgoes...]

Is that it?
Wait till we do King Hu. I feel he'll be even worse.

[Ezee E]

Is that it?
One qualified movie perhaps?

I'll see One-Armed Swordsman before week's end at least.

[balmakboor]

The One-Armed Swordsman (1967) 6
The Boxer from Shantung (1972) 8
Five Deadly Venoms (1978) 6

I can only take so much martial arts stuff. Watching one usually satisfies me for a month or so. I always find myself wanting to go back for more eventually though. I'd love to see Boxer some time with subtitles. Dubbing always makes a movie seem a bit on the trashy side. I think this one would seem as classy as Kurosawa's Seven Samurai in its original language.

[MadMan]

*blank stare*Glad to see I'm not the only one with this reaction :lol:

I'll use this thread for recommandations, I guess.

[dreamdead]

Edited in The Boxer from Shantung. It's awesome. Utterly operatic in its intentions of portraying a gangster/kung fu masterpiece. It's solid throughout, though my R1 dubbing hurts some of the artistry. When the last thirty minutes roll up, though, words dissolve from the film, which lets Cheh and Bao Xueli's artistry and controlled choreography shine. It's a monument of spatial editing and choreographed chaos. Truly a wonder.

Ma Yung Chen's refusal to submit to death was likely the most visionary refusal since the first time I watched DePalma's Scarface as a teenager. That, by the way, is a compliment.

[D_Davis]

^That is a proper response to The Boxer From Shantung.

:)

Glad you loved it.

Best damn martial arts film ever made.

[balmakboor]

Edited in The Boxer from Shantung. It's awesome. Utterly operatic in its intentions of portraying a gangster/kung fu masterpiece. It's solid throughout, though my R1 dubbing hurts some of the artistry. When the last thirty minutes roll up, though, words dissolve from the film, which lets Cheh and Bao Xueli's artistry and controlled choreography shine. It's a monument of spatial editing and choreographed chaos. Truly a wonder.

Ma Yung Chen's refusal to submit to death was likely the most visionary refusal since the first time I watched DePalma's Scarface as a teenager. That, by the way, is a compliment.

I have Scarface thoughts as well when I watch it. It is damn good.

[Ezee E]

Adding in The One-Armed Swordsman which was awesome as well. The story is classic kung-fu, but the idea of how our One-Armed Swordsman loses his depression makes it more interesting than your run-of-the-mill kung-fu movie, and the sword lock makes it a hell of a lot more fun to watch as it leads up to the final fight. That final fight which happens to be a half hour long. :eek:

Just great.

[dreamdead]

Only 8 people have seen a Cheh Chang film? Only three films make the results? This is actually a little less than I’d thought (thought we’d be around the 19-20 participants that we had back when we did Lubitsch). Anyway, onward.

Results:
The Boxer from Shantung – 8.75 (4)
Five Deadly Venoms – 8.1667 (6)
One-Armed Swordsman – 7.5833 (6)
Average = 8.1667

Did Not Qualify:
The Shaolin Temple – 10 (1)
The Kid with the Golden Arm – 10 (1)
Five Element Ninjas – 9.25 (2)
Disciples of Shaolin – 9 (1)
Crippled Avengers – 9 (1)
Two Chambers of Shaolin – 9 (1)
Return of the One-Armed Swordsman – 8 (3)
Shaolin Martial Arts – 8 (1)
Five Shaolin Masters – 8 (1)
The Brave Archer – 8 (1)
Invisible Shaolin – 8 (1)
Ten Tigers of Kuangtung - 8 (1)
The Flying Dagger – 7.5 (2)
The Invisible Fist – 7.5 (1)
Have Sword, Will Travel – 7.1667 (3)
The Assassin – 7 (2)
New One-Armed Swordsman – 7 (2)
Vengeance – 7 (1)
Heroes Two – 7 (1)
Avenging Warriors – 7 (1)
The Daredevils – 7 (1)
The Chinatown Kid – 7 (1)
The Magnificent Trio – 7 (1)
The Fantastic Magic Baby – 7 (1)
The Nine Demons – 7 (1)
Men from the Monastery - 7 (1)
Golden Swallow – 6.75 (2)
The Wandering Swordsman – 6 (1)
Dual of Fists – 6 (1)
The Deadly Duo – 6 (1)
The Brave Archer, Part 2 – 6 (1)
Flag of Iron – 6 (1)
Heaven and Hell – 6 (1)
All Men are Brothers II - 6 (1)
Marco Polo – 6 (1)
Blood Brothers – 6 (1)
The Weird Man – 6 (1)
The Dual – 6 (1)
The Brave Archer, Part 3 – 5 (1)
Ninja in Ancient China – 5 (1)
Trail of the Broken Sword – 5 (1)
Ode to Gallantry – 5 (1)
The Sword Stained with Royal Blood – 5 (1)
Masked Avengers – 5 (1)
The Bloody Escape – 5 (1)
The Anonymous Heroes – 4 (1)
The Water Margin – 4 (1)
Na Cha the Great – 3 (1)

Biggest Fan: Daniel Davis
Blank Stare: Spinal and Madman
The likelihood that you’ll want a quality Cheh Chang directly corresponds to the likelihood that it namechecks Shaolin in its title: priceless

[Boner M]

I feel less of a man for not contributing to this consensus.