Two Lovers (Phoenix, Paltrow, Dir. Gray)

[EvilShoe]

http://rjkonner.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/two_lovers_poster.82110335_std .gif
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=GH3SdiqmnCc

This has been released over here, and I've read several good reviews. I thought The Yards and We Own The Night were interesting, but ultimately mediocre films. Maybe this time Gray gets it right. He's definitely talented. (Haven't seen Little Odessa).

At least he's moving away from the gangster genre.
Anyone else interested?

[Raiders]

And films.

James Gray is still continuing to direct.

Oh, and this film is just about top of my 2009 list. Gray is awesome.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I hope it's better than that tagline.

[Boner M]

Sometimes writing appears on Joaquin Phoenix's shoulder

[transmogrifier]

Gray could be awesome if he found anything other than a formulaic script to direct.

[Boner M]

Gray could be awesome if he found anything other than a formulaic script to direct.
Not formulaic... archetypal.

[Raiders]

I don't think We Own the Night is really formulaic at all. At least not where it counts. The overall big plot points are not shocking, but in the subtle character changes and though I'm not a fan of one small moment, particularly an ending, being more important than all the rest of the film, that last shot is superb. It really caps the film's slow, haunting immersion.

[transmogrifier]

I don't think We Own the Night is really formulaic at all. At least not where it counts. The overall big plot points are not shocking, but in the subtle character changes and though I'm not a fan of one small moment, particularly an ending, being more important than all the rest of the film, that last shot is superb. It really caps the film's slow, haunting immersion.


My memory is shocking - what's the last shot?

[Boner M]

Have you seen Little Odessa trans?

[Raiders]

My memory is shocking - what's the last shot?

Wahlberg and Phoenix in their police uniforms sitting there on stage, looking sullen and with them muttering mutual "I love you"s.

Not impressive on paper, but when you couple it with the opening scene featuring a jazzy, jammin' make-out scene between Mendes and Phoenix, the film's immersion and overall tonal shift become quite evident. It's a film where the "happy ending" is essentially the loss of one man's identity into the family business--the police force.

[transmogrifier]

Have you seen Little Odessa trans?

No, just The Yards and WOTN.

[Ezee E]

Bump.

Great freakin' movie. Best I've seen for the year.

Not a movie tailored for suspense, but damn, there's a scene that may be the most suspenseful of the year.

Check it out people.

[Boner M]

Yeah, this is another solid Brooklyn-boy-can't-escape-his-destiny film from Gray, only without the genre trappings. I noticed how the ending was an echo of We Own the Night's; at the end of both films Phoenix ends up having to resort to the 'consolation prize' of familial solidarity, almost accepting it like a Stepford wife - in WotN it was him and Wahlberg as brothers affectlessly exchanging 'I love you's, and here it's the image of Phoenix proposing to Vinessa Shaw like some eerie Hallmark advertisement parody. For all Gray's heart-on-sleeve qualities, I think the endings to both films are deeply ironic, almost like the 'happy' endings of Douglas Sirk's melodramas were.

My only complaint is that I don't really buy Paltrow as the flighty type (additionally I found Shaw more attractive in terms of both her character and looks), although her actual performance was fine. I'd be bummed if Phoenix was seriously giving up acting, 'cos I think it's probably his best to date, and the first time he's really made a huge impression on me.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, this is another solid Brooklyn-boy-can't-escape-his-destiny film from Gray, only without the genre trappings. I noticed how the ending was an echo of We Own the Night's; at the end of both films Phoenix ends up having to resort to the 'consolation prize' of familial solidarity, almost accepting it like a Stepford wife - in WotN it was him and Wahlberg as brothers affectlessly exchanging 'I love you's, and here it's the image of Phoenix proposing to Vinessa Shaw like some eerie Hallmark advertisement parody. For all Gray's heart-on-sleeve qualities, I think the endings to both films are deeply ironic, almost like the 'happy' endings of Douglas Sirk's melodramas were.

My only complaint is that I don't really buy Paltrow as the flighty type (additionally I found Shaw more attractive in terms of both her character and looks), although her actual performance was fine. I'd be bummed if Phoenix was seriously giving up acting, 'cos I think it's probably his best to date, and the first time he's really made a huge impression on me.
Yeah, the ending here works much, much better than We Own The Night. While it looks like a Hallmark ending, it is anything but.

I have some problems with how Joaquin became attracted to Gwyneath's character, but he was in such a damaged state, that I was able to accept it. Plus, his attempts to make her friends smile, and the complications that resulted worked so well that I was able to overlook it all.

It's very sad that this movie didn't get a wider release. It seems like a film that Lost In Translation, Eternal Sunshine types would be all over.

[B-side]

I rather liked Two Lovers, but I couldn't help but be a bit disappointed by the pervading cliches of overbearing parents and the love story that was very predictable. What elevated it for me were the various juxtapositions(the classical music with the modern New York, the two sides of Phoenix's character perhaps set in motion by his bipolar disorder, the calm, mature Shaw with the sporadic, emotionally-driven Paltrow, etc.) and Phoenix's performance. I had similar issues with We Own the Night. Perhaps I'm missing something.

[Benny Profane]

I have some problems with how Joaquin became attracted to Gwyneath's character


Hmmm...have you looked at Gwyneth Paltrow lately? She's quite fetching.

Here she represents every unattainable girl in the world. She is passion and heartbreak, while the other lover is safety and ease. I think NickGlass said it awhile ago, this film is not only about two lovers, but about two different kinds of love.

[Ezee E]

Hmmm...have you looked at Gwyneth Paltrow lately? She's quite fetching.

Here she represents every unattainable girl in the world. She is passion and heartbreak, while the other lover is safety and ease. I think NickGlass said it awhile ago, this film is not only about two lovers, but about two different kinds of love.
I saw Gwyneath on Conan a few weeks ago. She looked amazing. And shiny. :)

But here, I didn't get the same attraction. But, as I mentioned, I was able to look past that once he did become interested, because the "unattainable" relationship that you mentioned worked so well. The lead-ons from her, attention grabbing, only to give heartbreak at the end. I know that all too well.

All three characters were pretty much perfect in my mind. Vinessa's character seemed to have her doubts as well. I wonder if she had her unattainable man relationship going on as well.

And Joaquin's character as a whole, is something that I'd like to talk about for hours. Easily his best performance that he's ever done.

Then, factor in the Elias/Joaquin conflict, and that's a whole other discussion.

Loving this more and more.

[Eleven]

Nobody's going to bring up the heartbreaking third woman, Isabella Rossellini? She really stuck in my mind.

Or the bio-cultural angle (from my review (http://www.playtime-magazine.com/2009/04/brighton-beach-blues-two-lovers/)):

"In a throwaway detail in dialogue few other movies would attempt, it turns out that Leonard and his former fiancée (the woman from his vision at the opening of the film) tested positive as recessive carriers of Tay-Sachs disease, meaning their children would undoubtedly inherit this fatal genetic disorder most readily identified with Eastern European Jews. With his own biology, inextricably bound up with his cultural heritage, standing in the way of emotional fulfillment, Leonard’s moroseness, as well as his enthusiasm for the decidedly non-Jewish Michelle, comes better into focus."

I was already a big James Gray fan, but yeah, this bowled me over earlier this year. Still my favorite 09 US release.

[Ezee E]

I'm not sure what else to say about the parents except that it worked great as well. They were cautious, and while the father tried to force it upon him, the mother gave more freedom, and also remained more wary, completely evident at her final scene on the stairs.

I could go on with the beautiful cinematography, something that is rare in romance films. The use of music. And so on. Its overwhelming. I tried writing a review, and it felt too much like a love letter.

One thing to discuss. Would you consider it a happy ending? After all, we know that Vinessa would be the better choice in the end, but will Joaquin always be thinking that he missed out on "the one?" It's a wonderfully done ending, but something I'd like to hear a bit more about

[Benny Profane]

I thought it was a very unhappy ending.

[Fezzik]

This sounds amazing. I hope it pops up at the "small, indie" theater here.

[Boner M]

This sounds amazing. I hope it pops up at the "small, indie" theater here.
Just got released on DVD.

[Fezzik]

This sounds amazing. I hope it pops up at the "small, indie" theater here.

I'm such a noob. Its on DVD. *sigh* I never heard of it when it was in theaters (we probably never got it here), so I'll check this out asap.

[Ezee E]

I'm such a noob. Its on DVD. *sigh* I never heard of it when it was in theaters (we probably never got it here), so I'll check this out asap.
Hardly anyone got it in theaters because it occurred during the whole "Joaquin's gone crazy" deal. The indie theaters hardly even advertised it.

[Ezee E]

I thought it was a very unhappy ending.
For sure. But essentially, it was the best thing that could've happened to that character. Joaquin would surely have been dumped quickly in San Fran, and most likely offed himself without a job.

[Eleven]

I thought it was a very unhappy ending.

It fits with Gray's series of compromised "happy" endings.

It's realistically the best possible outcome for all involved, yet it plays against the aspirations of self-actualization for Phoenix and Paltrow. It's unambiguously happy from Shaw's point of view, but I think Rossellini senses the disappointment. Shorn of the violent and criminal dimensions of his previous films, Gray lets the tension between individual and community/tradition/family be expressed only through emotional longing and thus be that more obvious and stark. I think the film is undoubtedly from Phoenix's point of view, but in lacking villains makes every character's voice heard and so opens up the ending to multivalent interpretations and tones.

[Benny Profane]

For sure. But essentially, it was the best thing that could've happened to that character. Joaquin would surely have been dumped quickly in San Fran, and most likely offed himself without a job.

You could say that, but you don't know.
The happy ending would have been him getting the girl, going to San Fran and closing the story right there. And you wouldn't have thought about what happens after that, whether they stay together or not, because that's not how it ends. It ends the way Phoenix wants it and that would be the lasting impression on the viewer, unless Gray did something to make you think otherwise. Since Phoenix doesn't get the gratification of his wishes, even though it might work out better for him in the end, I can only say it's an unhappy finale.

[Duncan]

Alright, you guys have convinced me. I'll seek this one out.

[chrisnu]

:cry: Wow, is Joaquin Phoenix good in this. Superb. Had me in tears.

Also have to say that Isabella Rosselini did a lot with very little screen time.

[Pop Trash]

Two Lovers is one of those flicks that never quite blows you away, but hits all the right notes so that it rises above the usual indie cutesy love stories. I appreciate Gray's headstrong willingness to make this incredibly sincere, almost daring critics to laugh or dismiss it (which some of them apparently did) but it certainly flies it the face of the easy irony and cynicism that pervades modern culture (and often the indie movie world).

Tonally, it seems old-fashioned. It seems steeped in the open-hearted, sincere flicks of the 70s like Five Easy Pieces or Last Tango in Paris. It also harks even farther back to movies of the 50s by Elia Kazan and Douglas Sirk (and Gray's apparent hero: Fellini) which also shared a certain sincerity and bitter-sweetness (I would say 'melodrama' but this is too often used as a pejorative).

Gray's DVD commentary is pretty interesting as well. You can tell he is a sharp cat and is self-consciously making a film that is opposed to the fashionable irony and cynicism of our modern world. My one complaint is that he seems to have very little sense of humor and almost comes off as a parody of a high-falutin intellectual cinephile (which he is also self-aware of since he keeps saying things like "this will sound totally pretentious" right before saying something rather pretentious) He reminds me a bit of David Gordon Green both in his taste and his "fuck it" willingness to be heart-on-sleeve sincere (this film reminding me tonally quite a bit of All the Real Girls) The difference is that, even before his breakthrough comedy of Pineapple Express, Green showed signs of a goofy humor even in Real Girls (ie Danny McBride's Bust-Ass character). But, honestly, I'm OK with that because it's nice to have guys like Gray out there making movies, no matter how much shit they might take.

Oh, and yes this is the best performance I've seen from Joaquin Phoenix thus far. Pity he had to go all "nutty" on us (even if it is a stunt). Otherwise, he might have an outside chance come awards time.

[Duncan]

Saw this the other day. Pretty good. Maybe a little disappointing, because the praise here is quite high. I had a couple issues with the script that seemed a bit too writerly at times (mostly to do with Koteas' character). Phoenix is indeed the best he's been here. He does the manic side of things exceptionally well. I can imagine that scene in the car on the way to the club would be very difficult to pull off authentically, but it works. Kinda wish Vinessa Shaw would be in better movies, because I liked her here, but looking at her IMDB page, there's really nothing else I want to check out that I haven't already seen. I liked the moody cinematography, lots of greens and blues, really felt like winter, some vaguely disturbing silhouettes, liked the sound design (especially on the roof). Umm...what else? I thought it was a very unhappy ending for Phoenix.

[dreamdead]

This film is formally magnificent, indeed. Love the tone of the colors when Phoenix and Paltrow are on the roof, and on Gray's willingness to confront the indecision and neuroses of Phoenix's character, so that the ending comes across as intentionally forced happiness rather than any genuine epiphany. It's an interesting take on how people chase toward occasional unhappiness rather than settling for "good enough," when that "good enough" is far, far healthier for them.

Though I liked Koteas' portrayal, I can see criticism of the lines he's given. At times Gray seems too eager to push his themes up on the screen, which is more a problem of the script and its integration into the visuals than anything else. Solid work from all parties, even if I concur with Duncan that it's not quite the revelation...

[Raiders]

Got this at home right now. Hoping to get to it tonight.

[Raiders]

I'll write more later on, but it's pretty late right now. Suffice to say, if I was going to make a movie and have it turn out perfectly, it would look exactly like this. Stunning.

[Raiders]

A departure for Gray, lacking in the gangster grit of his first three films, but yet a perfect extension of his previous film, We Own the Night. That film expressed the dueling impetuses of Joaquin Phoenix's life and here as well, but where Night used the decadence and moral ambiguity of living on the cusp of criminality and the blue collar, morally stringent life of a cop, Two Lovers uses two differing potential lovers, one socially acceptable, genteel and shy and the other confused, dangerous and alluring.

An early scene gives us an indication into Phoenix's character and his emotional and social immaturity; at a dinner event, orchestrated to essentially have Phoenix's Leonard meet Vinessa Shaw's Sandra (the good girl), Phoenix is obviously uncomfortable around all the "grown ups," but with Sandra's younger brother he is at ease and playfully shows the boy a trick with a spoon. Similarly later on at his job (he works for his dad's dry cleaners), we see his goofing around and later in the same scene bored and irreverently carrying the clothes to the customer. Even more is the opening scene of clumsily attempted suicide in which he changes his mind. Leonard's psyche is, as the narrative structure suggests, bi-polar and fractured, spawned as we learn by an engagement that fell through.

Such as it is then that when Gwyneth Paltrow's Michelle (the bad girl) enters his life, he sees a chance to escape from the pre-arranged social order expected of him. Their first foray together has her doing some ecstasy while he looks on, at first a little disturbed then gradually intrigued. Like a child or an innocent told he cannot have the forbidden candy, Leonard can't help himself. The club scene is starkly contrasted with the muted interiors of his parent's home and in a key moment the film slyly has Leonard get locked out of the club and in a moment of likely divine foreshadowing, told he is not allowed back in.

Michelle is of course, damaged goods so to speak and is involved with a married man. The scenes between her and her man Ronald (Elias Koteas) are the most perfunctory in the film, but that feels about right. Koteas is an intruder into this world between the two characters and his presence never feels anything less than uncomfortable within the framework. Leonard has become obsessed with Michelle and Sandra, despite their surprisingly poignant sexual encounter (though the contrast between this and the rooftop fuck between Leonard and Michelle is thematically taut), is being pushed out of the picture.

Interestingly though, in looking back Leonard is never more than a spectator to Michelle's story. Koteas' character ultimately pulls the strings at every turn despite his lack of screen presence. She spurns Leonard at the club because of her relationship; she needs Leonard to rescue her when Ronald is out of town; she gives in to Leonard as a rebound of her break up with Ronald; finally she breaks Leonard's heart because Ronald has changed his. Contrast this with Sandra who despite the original premise wanted to meet Leonard, who buys him a present and who wants him and understands him (she sees his scars and she looks at his pictures to understand what he lacks). Ultimately I think Gray shows there is only one mutual love in this film and everything else is just noise, confusion and the product of an allure too powerful to see the strings.

Such it is then that I do not see the ending as unhappy, or at least certainly not trapping Leonard in the same overwhelming shroud of darkness and contentedness that We Own the Night trapped Phoenix's character. I think of Leonard standing on the precipice of suicide and loss (standing on the shores of the water and for Leonard as we see in the opening scene, water = suicide) and then seeing the glove Sandra had given him. It was a gift that may seem inconsequential, but for Leonard it can be seen as a sign of embrace and a concern for his well-being. It goes straight to the heart of his relationship with his caring and attentive mother (a superb Isabella Rossellini) and that distractions may seem appealing and an escape from our life, but some things are eternal and nurturing. Gray ultimately seems to posit the very same ideals as a film as disparate as Hillcoat's The Proposition that change and progress aren't always pretty or neat, and may in the moment seem a defeat, but in the end a calming and evolution can occur. For all of Leonard's doubt, there is a resounding beacon of hope in that final image.

[Pop Trash]

I take it this and Coraline are your favorite flicks of 2009 so far Raiders?

[Duncan]

So I saw this again and actually kind of loved it this time around. The only scene I wish was different was when Phoenix is hiding behind the door while Paltrow and Koteas talk. It comes off as 100% written whereas the rest of the film feels perfectly natural.

[dreamdead]

I like this notion of Gray depicting Phoenix almost as an infantilized individual by those around him, and how he seems most at home in that vibe. Yet I wonder how much we're meant to view this as a positive, since he seems, also like a child, resistant to growing up and being willing to pursue the mature choice for himself rather than being drawn to the dangerous girl who seems obviously willing to sabotage relationships for her own happiness.

[Melville]

Just dropping in to say that this movie is amazing. Brilliant, wintry cinematography and music and a tremendous performance by Phoenix. One of the most truthful, devastating portraits of love ever put on film. I just finished watching it, and it tore me up pretty fiercely.

[Bosco B Thug]

Damn, that was superb. Gray = old-fashioned filmmaking and pacing = the best. I felt like I was watching a 70s film a number of times (although I should really stop using this decade demarcation in filmmaking). There's that club scene where we spend a few moments watching a random breakdancer and it felt like a first real revival of the old movie tradition of the full nightclub act to preface scenes set in nightclubs.

I really have no complaints against the film. It's totally engrossing. The script is perhaps rather simple, but the film itself is incredibly nuanced and textured. What I took from it is, it's a look at adulthood, its predictability, and the errant factors that are romance and Leonard's weird psychology and biology. Something like that, needing of more elaboration.

Isabella Rossellini's final shot is killer. Absolutely killer!

[Spaceman Spiff]

This was pretty amazing, but it made me more than a little uncomfortable. My past year has looked kinda similar to Leonard's. I even filmed a bar mitzvah back in the summer.

[Adam]

I was thinking about making a list of my favorite "little moments" in 2009 films, but now I've decided that I'm not going to be doing that. If I had made that list, though, two "little moments" from Two Lovers would've easily placed near the top a) Phoenix's split-second dance with his coat as he's leaving the apartment towards the end and b) Phoenix's match trickery

I want to see this movie again

[Kurosawa Fan]

This movie was as amazing as everyone here gave it credit for. I wasn't the slightest disappointed and am glad I saw it to add to my top ten before the deadline. Phoenix was remarkable. I really hope this hiatus ends soon.

[Spinal]

Among my favorite shots of the year: Phoenix seated at the restaurant with that weird looking artwork gazing stupidly behind him. Joaquin does what he does best, mixing two parts earnest with one part awkward. Paltrow was the stand-out for me. Thought she was utterly riveting in every scene she was in. Rossellini's scene with Phoenix on the stairs: wow. Not crazy about the ending. Much too tidy. Made the details about Phoenix's extreme behavior seem like false leads, manipulators. I don't really buy Leonard's final few decisions based on what has come before.

Still, this is not a film I would have watched without the high praise from this site, so thanks. I enjoyed it.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Seems like really high praise for only 3 stars. This movie really shook me up.

[Derek]

Made the details about Phoenix's extreme behavior seem like false leads, manipulators. I don't really buy Leonard's final few decisions based on what has come before.

You don't buy that he'd go away with Michelle or you don't buy he'd settle down with Sandra after Michelle leaves him? Or both? I can see the ending feeling a bit abrupt, but tidy? I found it heartbreaking; he's settling with someone who loves him but who he doesn't truly love in return. I think the abruptness is actually perfectly inline with anxiety-driven, depressive personality.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I found the ending hopeful, actually. He ended up with the right girl, and in time he'll be a lot happier. Certainly moreso than had he ended up with flimsy Michelle.

[B-side]

I found the ending hopeful, actually. He ended up with the right girl, and in time he'll be a lot happier. Certainly moreso than had he ended up with flimsy Michelle.

Hmmm.

[Derek]

I found the ending hopeful, actually. He ended up with the right girl, and in time he'll be a lot happier. Certainly moreso than had he ended up with flimsy Michelle.

I think both readings are valid. I suppose I found it tragic in that his initial hopes were shattered, yet I do believe the relationship with Sandra showed much more promise. I don't think he really loved her, or at least hasn't come to terms with being with someone so compassionate, though of course he eventually could develop those feelings.

[Melville]

I found the ending hopeful, actually. He ended up with the right girl, and in time he'll be a lot happier. Certainly moreso than had he ended up with flimsy Michelle.
My prediction:
Though he'll endlessly regret what happened, he'll eventually come to love Sandra. However, a few years down the road, Sandra will decide that she cannot have a healthy relationship with him, that he is too much of an emotional burden; she'll divorce him, it'll be a fiasco, and he'll be back where he started, possibly now with the additional problem of a child (and a dysfunctional relationship with said child).

[Spaceman Spiff]

:lol:

Well who the hell is looking that far in the future? Prediction: A year before that they vacation in Bermuda, and somehow contract leprosy. Sandra dies two weeks later.

In any case, I'VE always preferred cute jewish girls over blonde goys.

[B-side]

Save the jokes for the funny people, Spiff. We haven't invited you yet.

I kid. Love you.

[Melville]

:lol:

Well who the hell is looking that far in the future? Prediction: A year before that they vacation in Bermuda, and somehow contract leprosy. Sandra dies two weeks later.
Even a year before the divorce, he can feel her drifting away from him. Unable to bear the thought of a future without her, he plans the trip to Bermuda knowing that they'll contract leprosy, hoping to end it all. But she dies and he survives, putting him back where he started, only now a hideous leper toting around a leprous baby daughter.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Give me rep then, cheese dick.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Even a year before the divorce, he can feel her drifting away from him. Unable to bear the thought of a future without her, he plans the trip to Bermuda knowing that they'll contract leprosy, hoping to end it all. But she dies and he survives, putting him back where he started, only now a hideous leper toting around a leprous baby daughter.


There's a million dollar movie somewhere here. I can feels it.

[B-side]

Give me rep then, cheese dick.

You first, ass face.

[number8]

I think how his relationship with Sandra will end up is foreshadowed by the movie's opening.

[Raiders]

You don't buy that he'd go away with Michelle or you don't buy he'd settle down with Sandra after Michelle leaves him? Or both? I can see the ending feeling a bit abrupt, but tidy? I found it heartbreaking; he's settling with someone who loves him but who he doesn't truly love in return. I think the abruptness is actually perfectly inline with anxiety-driven, depressive personality.

Yeah, I don't think the ending is tidy in the least. I think the fact that there are so many different opinions on what it really means and whether it is happy or sad proves it is far from being a neatly wrapped package.

[Spinal]

You don't buy that he'd go away with Michelle or you don't buy he'd settle down with Sandra after Michelle leaves him? Or both? I can see the ending feeling a bit abrupt, but tidy? I found it heartbreaking; he's settling with someone who loves him but who he doesn't truly love in return. I think the abruptness is actually perfectly inline with anxiety-driven, depressive personality.

I didn't buy that he would let Michelle go so easily. I didn't buy that he would walk back into that party so soon after mentally preparing to sever himself from that life. I didn't buy that he was ready to propose to Sandra. The 'glove' shortcut seemed a little too easy.

It all seemed rushed after what had come before. Maybe that's a better word than tidy. There is certainly ambiguity and conflicting emotions in the ending. I just wish they had taken more time with it.

[Bosco B Thug]

I didn't buy that he would let Michelle go so easily. I didn't buy that he would walk back into that party so soon after mentally preparing to sever himself from that life. I didn't buy that he was ready to propose to Sandra. The 'glove' shortcut seemed a little too easy.

It all seemed rushed after what had come before. Maybe that's a better word than tidy. There is certainly ambiguity and conflicting emotions in the endings. I just wish they had taken more time with it. Also, if you don't buy that his abrupt decision-making is characteristic of his particular psychology, one can argue Gray must've also been going for some level of irony.

Michelle's final flakery is so devastating, it's finally the thing that snaps him into being the stable, "competent" biological being everyone wants him to be.

[Raiders]

I didn't buy that he would let Michelle go so easily. I didn't buy that he would walk back into that party so soon after mentally preparing to sever himself from that life. I didn't buy that he was ready to propose to Sandra. The 'glove' shortcut seemed a little too easy.

She seemed pretty sure of herself, and I think he recognized she was never "his" to begin with (as I mentioned in my review, it is Koteas' character who really drives the film). His childish mentality couldn't handle the rejection and he went to where he seemingly always goes when it doesn't work out (suicide, usually by water) but the glove stopped him. I don't pretend to know how rational it is that someone on the brink would stop for a woman he doesn't appear to really love, but I found it very poignant that apparently unlike before, he now has someone he can turn to, and I don't think it is a coincidence that the item is a glove, a symbol of warmth and protection.


It all seemed rushed after what had come before. Maybe that's a better word than tidy. There is certainly ambiguity and conflicting emotions in the endings. I just wish they had taken more time with it.

I can buy rushed, but I sort of like that quick, truncated feeling. It furthers the ambiguity of it.

I do have to admit, over time I am less certain regarding the happiness of the ending. I think it is undoubtedly a more "mature" decision he makes that has much more potential for himself and as a lasting relationship. But I then recall how the couple people I know at work who grew up in a community like the immigrant households of Brighton Beach and how they would just nod their head when I described the film to them. It is a very close knit community, the kind where your friends are those your parents knew before you even did and where everything revolves around "family." I think Leonard is potentially trapped in that situation and maybe Michelle as opposed to simply alluring represented a break from the mold, whereas Sandra is simply more of the same. I think if anything, Gray's previous film showed us his dubious allegiance to family and expectations, and the final shot of the hovering mother with her blanketing but quiet concern may actually be something a little sadder than I originally perceived. Leonard isn't just reverting to his "second choice" or that which he does not presently love, but back to his family, their wishes and the community. For all of Sandra's comfort, protection and love, she is nonetheless an albatross for Leonard and his wish of seeing the world beyond his family.

[Melville]

I didn't buy that he would let Michelle go so easily. I didn't buy that he would walk back into that party so soon after mentally preparing to sever himself from that life. I didn't buy that he was ready to propose to Sandra. The 'glove' shortcut seemed a little too easy.

It all seemed rushed after what had come before. Maybe that's a better word than tidy. There is certainly ambiguity and conflicting emotions in the ending. I just wish they had taken more time with it.
I think it's believable that he would let Michelle go so easily. Her action takes the wind out of him. He's completely devastated. From the beginning of the film, he's on the verge of giving up on life, and her sudden leaving makes that instantly all the more reasonable. It would feel pointless to fight for her.

I do find it hard to believe that he would return so soon, and so calmly, to the party, given that he wanted to escape that life for the whole movie, and that he was prepared to leave not just that life, but life altogether mere moments before. However, he's acting out of desperation; he's desperate for somebody to reach out to, for something to pull him back from the brink. When he realizes that he has somebody there, waiting for him...well, he grabs a hold of that opportunity as desperately as he can. In that context, the proposal seemed believable.

[megladon8]

The new banner is from this film, right?

Who is the woman Joaquin is kissing? I could have sworn that was Olivia Wilde, but her name is not in the cast list.

[Raiders]

The new banner is from this film, right?

Who is the woman Joaquin is kissing? I could have sworn that was Olivia Wilde, but her name is not in the cast list.

Vinessa Shaw.

[megladon8]

Vinessa Shaw.


Am I the only one who finds that this particularly shot makes her look a LOT like Olivia Wilde?

[Spinal]

Don't you love films where the protagonist has to decide whether to pursue an absurdly beautiful woman or settle for someone who is merely very beautiful? :)

[Raiders]

Don't you love films where the protagonist has to decide whether to pursue an absurdly beautiful woman or settle for someone who is merely very beautiful? :)

I realize this is meant at least partly in jest, but I doubt we'll ever see a non-independent film, at least in Hollywood, where producers don't require attractive stars for romantic comedies and dramas.

[Spinal]

I realize this is meant at least partly in jest, but I doubt we'll ever see a non-independent film, at least in Hollywood, where producers don't require attractive stars for romantic comedies and dramas.

Oh, I'm not complaining.

[megladon8]

I like when people are attractive AND good actors.

Which seems to be the case here, from what I'm reading.

I really want to see this.

[Spinal]

I like when people are attractive AND good actors.

Which seems to be the case here, from what I'm reading.

I really want to see this.

Yes, the acting is very strong all around.

[megladon8]

Yes, the acting is very strong all around.


Awesome.

This is why I find Kate Winslet and Rachel Weisz divinely attractive. They're not just physically beautiful, but I think they're two of the strongest English-language actresses of their generation.

[Ezee E]

I like when people are attractive AND good actors.

Which seems to be the case here, from what I'm reading.

I really want to see this.
Make it a priority. This one still surprises me at how good it is. These type of movies don't happen often.

Acting is obviously good. The three leads were all nominated in our awards at least...

[number8]

Phoenix ties with Rockwell as the biggest Best Actor snub. Perhaps even more.

[B-side]

Phoenix ties with Rockwell as the biggest Best Actor snub. Perhaps even more.

http://www.daemonsmovies.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/nicolascage_bad_lieutenant2-500x415.jpg

[Spaceman Spiff]

omg yes. Cage and Phoenix were the two great (male) performances of the year. Pretty hilarious, but expected, that they both get snubbed.

[B-side]

omg yes. Cage and Phoenix were the two great (male) performances of the year. Pretty hilarious, but expected, that they both get snubbed.

I would've expected a Phoenix nom long before a Cage nom.

[Ezee E]

I would've expected a Phoenix nom long before a Cage nom.
I think five people outside of Match Cut actually saw Two Lovers.

[Adam]

And those five people are gigantic snobs from France

[Derek]

I'm guessing by the 8,323 IMdB votes that you guys would not make good statisticians.

[Winston*]

The Oscars were parodying him when this movie came out last year, he's not getting nominated after that.

[Ezee E]

I'm guessing by the 8,323 IMdB votes that you guys would not make good statisticians.
Raiders voted a lot.

[megladon8]

I thought this was wonderful. And I was totally crushing on Vinessa Shaw in this.

[megladon8]

I, for one, thought it was a bittersweet ending.

I think he will smarten up very quickly.

[DavidSeven]

I said it about We Own the Night, but it applies equally here, Gray really knows how to take very simplistic storylines and bring them to life with his execution and focused delivery. This is the better film -- most likely because he isn't as restricted within the confines of a more shallow genre. Love Gray's pacing and his eye for cinematic compositions and lighting. Thought the abrupt ending was somehow perfect and added a much needed sense of ambiguity to the so-called resolution. It's nice to see a filmmaker taking conventional narratives and doing something unique without appearing painfully idiosyncratic. I hope he gets to make more films.

[StanleyK]

Such a great movie. It's amazing the amount of empathy that Phoenix and Gray generate for such a reproachable character. Poor Leonard just won't stop fucking up, and as much as the movie calls him out on this, we understand him perfectly and even feel sorry for him. My only complaint is some clunky exposition in the first section of the film; other than that, Two Lovers is an excellent character study, very powerful in its understatedness and ultimately devastating.