Whatever Works

[Amnesiac]

...

[Sycophant]

Whatever Works and Curb season 7. Two reasons to live into 2009.

Glad Fox will be back, at least for the beginning of S7. I take it J.B. Smoove will still be around as well? Season six is going to be hard to follow up.

[Dukefrukem]

Larry David's body language in those picstures is enough to make me laugh.

[ledfloyd]

this is my most looked forward to movie of the year. woody coming off vicky cristina barcelona which i thought was his best film in years. and larry david. i'm excited.

[D_Davis]

Wow - this could end up being the most neurotic and uncomfortably funny film ever. All they need is Ricky Garvais.

[Grouchy]

That does indeed look like an awesome team-up. It makes me wonder why it hadn't happened before.

Any idea if David has any writing credits on this?

[NickGlass]

It's going to open the 2009 Tribeca Film Festival on April 22nd.

That's not a great sign of quality. I'm officially worried.

[Sycophant]

Oh my god. We're not getting this here till July 31st. Oh Christ.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This is the Jewiest movie ever. It only needs me in it now.

[ledfloyd]

where the hell is the trailer?

[soitgoes...]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.cinematical.com/media/2009/05/whatevworks.jpg

This was posted over at Cinematical (http://www.cinematical.com/2009/05/06/whatever-works-is-afraid-of-woody-allen/#comments), along with an interesting observation:
Interesting thoughts. I'm pretty sure there are a number of people who might be turned off by Woody Allen (surprising, I know). Those who do follow his career will know about, and see this film without Woody being billed outside of the billing block I guess. Still I think when promoting your film, or anything else for that matter, you should go with your biggest guns, Allen in this case, the thought of porn in Smith's film.

[Robby P]

I would imagine that the overseas promotions feature Allen's name quite prominently. I think he's less vilified in other parts of the world.

[Grouchy]

I would imagine that the overseas promotions feature Allen's name quite prominently. I think he's less vilified in other parts of the world.
In Argentina he has a huge cult following among people over 30. Every movie of his makes good money on the opening weekend, even the really crappy ones.

[NickGlass]

where the hell is the trailer?

Seriously, where is this? This film had already sceened at two festivals. Also, even his terrible/mediocre recent films (Anything Else, Melinda and Melinda, Match Point) have had very watchable or fun trailers.

[Silencio]

Seriously, where is this?Here. (http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony/whateverworks/)

[D_Davis]

Yes!

This looks glorious.

Oh man.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Can't freakin wait.

[Sycophant]

This is why God created 2009.

[ledfloyd]

i thought the trailer was a bit underwhelming, but it does nothing to curb my enthusiasm for the film.

[Kurosawa Fan]

i thought the trailer was a bit underwhelming, but it does nothing to curb my enthusiasm for the film.

Ba-dum CHING!

[number8]

i thought the trailer was a bit underwhelming, but it does nothing to curb my enthusiasm for the film.

What the... what... Why did you post a sentence I was just about to post word for word?

[number8]

Okay that's not true. I was going to say "terrible" instead of "underwhelming".

[transmogrifier]

I hate it when people in New York-based movies refer to the Yankees.

LAME.

[Rowland]

Allen's recent comedies (Scoop, Vicky Cristina Barcelona) have been better than the turgid dramas (Match Point, Cassandra's Dream), so here's hoping this continues the trend.

[Ezee E]

I hate it when people in New York-based movies refer to the Yankees.

LAME.
Rather they talk about the Pittsburgh Pirates? I don't get this.

[DavidSeven]

Feels kind of like a forced Woody, which can be painful to sit through.

[Boner M]

I kinda agree with the detractors of the trailer, but the brief shot of Larry jumping out the window was glorious.

[Qrazy]

I kinda agree with the detractors of the trailer, but the brief shot of Larry jumping out the window was glorious.

Agreed on both counts.

[B-side]

Agreed on both counts.

And I'll be the third.

[[ETM]]

Rather they talk about the Pittsburgh Pirates? I don't get this.

Mets fan?

[Acapelli]

;160761']Mets fan?
hahahahahaha

[chrisnu]

I think it looks great. Looking forward to it.

New Yorkers referring to the Yankees doesn't bother me, and I hate the Yankees.

[DavidSeven]

From my experience, people from NY are always referring to the Yankees in real life too. Annoying, but true.

[eternity]

I loved this trailer. And I really haven't been particularly excited for any Woody Allen movie in a while.

[number8]

From my experience, people from NY are always referring to the Yankees in real life too. Annoying, but true.

Tell me about it.

/married to a Yankees fan

[ledfloyd]

What the... what... Why did you post a sentence I was just about to post word for word?
great minds.

[NickGlass]

Here. (http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony/whateverworks/)

Yikes.

Nevermind. Damnit.

[Spaceman Spiff]

What's with all this negativity? It looks pretty much what I expected, to me. I'm excited.

[Sycophant]

It really isn't a very good trailer, but that somehow doesn't diminish my anticipation for a new New York-set Woody Allen movie starring Larry David.

[DavidSeven]

its tired handling of so many overly familiar themes eventually proves enervating. As does the utter artificiality not only of the stereotypical characterizations, but also such devices as the repeated breaking of the fourth wall, with Boris addressing the "audience" while the other characters look on in bafflement.

Like I said, forced Woody.

[Amnesiac]

Like I said, forced Woody.

Why is that forced? Simply because there may be themes or techniques that Woody has already touched upon or utilized before?

[DavidSeven]

Why is that forced? Simply because there may be themes or techniques that Woody has already touched upon or utilized before?

No. It just seems he's trying too hard to capture the essence of a Woody Allen New York Comedy. I think the comment about the film's artificiality touches on that. Vicky Cristina revolved around familiar themes, but no one would say that film was forced.

My impression is based on a 2-minute clip though, so there could definitely be more at play here.

[Amnesiac]

No. It just seems he's trying too hard to capture the essence of a Woody Allen New York Comedy.

So you're worried that he's simply making a caricature of a NY Woody Allen movie? Or that he's being less creative with his themes here (simply regurgitating, perhaps) than he was in Vicky Cristina Barcelona? I don't know... I can see points of intersection with his earlier work, but I'm not seeing how this is necessarily bad thing. He may be working with a familiar setting and some familiar tropes, but I'm not sensing that this film will have absolutely nothing new to say. Then again, that review does say differently so maybe I'm being overly hopeful. We'll see. I can see how stereotypical and shallow characterizations might hurt the film but I have the feeling that Boris as odd-man-out will be a strong redeeming factor in that case...

Also, you mentioned that "forced Woody" can be painful to sit through... what other films of his do you consider fit this description?

[DavidSeven]

Also, you mentioned that "forced Woody" can be painful to sit through... what other films of his do you consider fit this description?

I added the second part for the sake of a stupid pun in the "woody equals erection" vein. I haven't actually hated any of his movies. But this movie sort of reminds me of Manhattan Murder Mystery, which I didn't like and felt was a little forced.

[Grouchy]

Huh, Manhattan Murder Mystery is a blast.

When I think "forced Woody", I think of his recent movies that sometimes feature dialogue that's painful to hear, like Match Point, Melinda and Melinda, or something like Anything Else.

[Grouchy]

I just realized we've been talking about forced Woodies.

Disturbing.

[Milky Joe]

Since when is Match Point considered sub-par Woody?

[lovejuice]

"forced" woodies i've sit through are scoop, anything else and melinda and melinda. only m&m is, imo, painful. others are not great, but enjoyable enough.

[dreamdead]

Love the cast, but the coverage presented in the trailer certainly feels like he's recycling all his main thematic ideas. And while that's to be expected for a filmmaker that's got 30+ films, I wish the trailer didn't feel like such a checklist of prior films.

That said, the window shot is magnificent.

[Qrazy]

Since when is Match Point considered sub-par Woody?

Since it was a piece of crap.

[megladon8]

More interested in this than I've ever been for a Woody Allen film.


<----------- not the man's biggest fan.

[Qrazy]

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/whatever_works/

It's not doing so hot so far.

[trotchky]

Do you guys realize this is Woody Allen's last shot at 2000s redemption? If this flick ends up sucking, it will be the first decade since he started making movies where every movie he made sucked. I'm staying positive here, though, because I really liked the trailer.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Do you guys realize this is Woody Allen's last shot at 2000s redemption? If this flick ends up sucking, it will be the first decade since he started making movies where every movie he made sucked. I'm staying positive here, though, because I really liked the trailer.

Vicky Cristina Barcelona was great. Easily his best since Husbands and Wives.

I have high hopes for this. High hopes.

[Milky Joe]

Do you guys realize this is Woody Allen's last shot at 2000s redemption? If this flick ends up sucking, it will be the first decade since he started making movies where every movie he made sucked. I'm staying positive here, though, because I really liked the trailer.

Yeah no.

[number8]

I liked Melinda & Melinda and Cassandra's Dream.

[Sycophant]

Yeah, Vicky Cristina Barcelona was pretty great, probably my favorite since Deconstructing Harry (which is top-tier Woody). Also really liked Match Point and Melinda & Melinda, and I thought Cassandra's Dream was good. I enjoyed Anything Else in theaters, but that was six years ago and one of my first Woody Allen films. Even Scoop didn't totally suck, as I retain fond memories of Allen mugging for the camera.

[right_for_the_moment]

So I saw this yesterday and it's absolutely hilarious and a more than worthhy successor to what I thought was a great film in Vicky Cristina Barcelona (I should probably add a disclaimer somewhere that I generally find anything with Woody Allen or Larry David to be hilarious). David's opening monologue is great in its full-fledged misanthropy. The first 15 minutes or so I found a little wooden or disjointed, particularly in the transitions between or arrangement of scenes, but after that the film unwinds quite smoothly. I really liked how Allen introduced secondary characters too. By the end of the film, it's fairly obvious that Allen has abandoned any attempt at subtlety (at least in the explication of his thematic concerns in a broad sense), but I don't think it's a detriment to the film.

Anyways, I'd highly recommend it. Some of the criticisms I've read in reviews thus far make no sense to me, though I do consider Allen one of my favorite directors. The supporting cast is great as well and Patricia Clarkson and Evan Rachel Wood really look like they could be mother and daughter in the film.
Ed Bagley Jr. should get more roles too.

[Grouchy]

Do you guys realize this is Woody Allen's last shot at 2000s redemption? If this flick ends up sucking, it will be the first decade since he started making movies where every movie he made sucked. I'm staying positive here, though, because I really liked the trailer.
Cassandra's Dream and Vicky Cristina Barcelona are already the "redemption" films for me.

[Boner M]

Shocked by the support for Cassandra's Dream here. That film is 100% celluloid facepalm.

[Derek]

I thought Cassandra's Dream was a good deal better than Match Point.

[Qrazy]

Yeah, Vicky Cristina Barcelona was pretty great, probably my favorite since Deconstructing Harry (which is top-tier Woody). Also really liked Match Point and Melinda & Melinda, and I thought Cassandra's Dream was good. I enjoyed Anything Else in theaters, but that was six years ago and one of my first Woody Allen films. Even Scoop didn't totally suck, as I retain fond memories of Allen mugging for the camera.

Disagree.

[Boner M]

Not a fan of Deconstructing Harry either.

[Qrazy]

Not a fan of Deconstructing Harry either.

I did enjoy seeing a young Paul Giamatti milling around though.

[ledfloyd]

i think cassandra's dream might be his worst film.

[number8]

I thought Cassandra's Dream was a good deal better than Match Point.

Easily.

[lovejuice]

Yeah, Vicky Cristina Barcelona was pretty great, probably my favorite since Deconstructing Harry (which is top-tier Woody). Also really liked Match Point and Melinda & Melinda, and I thought Cassandra's Dream was good. I enjoyed Anything Else in theaters, but that was six years ago and one of my first Woody Allen films. Even Scoop didn't totally suck, as I retain fond memories of Allen mugging for the camera.
agree with almost everything here except Melinda is perhaps one of his worst.

[Pop Trash]

I liked Match Point a great deal and thought VCB was OK. Don't think I've bothered to see any of his other films from this decade and I don't think I will (including Whatever Works)

[number8]

This was pretty good. Very vintage Annie Hall-esque Woody.

[transmogrifier]

Woody's best of the decade is still Small Time Crooks. Love that film.

[Acapelli]

This was pretty good. Very vintage Annie Hall-esque Woody.
this sounds great

and after watching the trailer for the first time, i immediately watched annie hall afterwards

[Ezee E]

Looks like Woody Allen may be the director that has the most diverse set of taste as far as what people think of each of his movies.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This was pretty good. Very vintage Annie Hall-esque Woody.

!!!

[Acapelli]

so i didn't know that the script for this film was originally written in 77, with zero mostel in larry david's role

[number8]

so i didn't know that the script for this film was originally written in 77, with zero mostel in larry david's role

Yeah, and you can tell while watching it, too. Some of the ideas and dialogue on religion, free love and homosexuality are a bit... outdated.

[eternity]

Yeah, and you can tell while watching it, too. Some of the ideas and dialogue on religion, free love and homosexuality are a bit... outdated.

I got that feeling from the trailer, but eek, this sounds like it'll be pretty awkward to watch.

[Winston*]

I thought he rewrote it with David in mind.

[Acapelli]

I thought he rewrote it with David in mind.
he did, according to the interview i read

[origami_mustache]

Larry David was great on Conan the other night, but I'm looking more forward to the new season of Curb Your Enthusiasm than this movie.

[angrycinephile]

Larry David was great on Conan the other night, but I'm looking more forward to the new season of Curb Your Enthusiasm than this movie.

Yeah, that was a great interview. I agree, even though I'm definitely interested in this film because Woody Allen and Larry David sounds like a perfect combination, but the trailer ready did nothing for me.

[Sycophant]

Thank you for bringing to my attention that David was on Conan last night. Conan's on Hulu, right?

[NickGlass]

Oof.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So...um... is this any good or what? Seeing it tonight.

[number8]

I liked it.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I liked it.

That's cool.

I've long ago ceased to expect poignancy and understated formal excellence from a Woody film. As long as it brings the lulz, I'll be happy.

[baby doll]

I liked it. It's definitely broad, not top-trier Woody, but it made me laugh, and despite what Larry David says in the opening scene, it's a real feel good film--not because things work out well for the characters so much as because they're changed by coming into contact with people totally unlike themselves. Check it out.

As far as Allen's work over the past decade, I think it was a better decade for him than the 90s.

Small Time Crooks (2000) / ***
The Curse of the Jade Scorpion (2001) / ***
Anything Else (2003) / ***
Melinda and Melinda (2004) / *1/2
Match Point (2005) / ****
Whatever Works (2009) / ***

[MacGuffin]

Match Point (2005) / ****


Really? Four stars? So, a masterpiece? I may need to catch this again, because I really only remember liking the second half. Then again, I'm way behind on Woody Allen. His massive output is just too overwhelming to even know how to begin exploring it (and it probably doesn't help that I was ambivalent on Manhattan when I first saw it, but I feel that could change on a second viewing).

[NickGlass]

As far as Allen's work over the past decade, I think it was a better decade for him than the 90s.

The Curse of the Jade Scorpion (2001) / ***
Anything Else (2003) / ***
Match Point (2005) / ****
Whatever Works (2009) / ***

Insanity.


Small Time Crooks (2000) / ***
Melinda and Melinda (2004) / *1/2

Sanity.

[baby doll]

Really? Four stars? So, a masterpiece? I may need to catch this again, because I really only remember liking the second half. Then again, I'm way behind on Woody Allen. His massive output is just too overwhelming to even know how to begin exploring it (and it probably doesn't help that I was ambivalent on Manhattan when I first saw it, but I feel that could change on a second viewing).Well, it's definitely Woody Allen's best film since the mid-80s heyday of Broadway Danny Rose and Hannah and Her Sisters. I mean, I can't totally get behind any film that expects us to find Scarlet Johannson attractive, but overall, yeah, it's pretty neat.

If you're wondering what Allen films to see, Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex... But Were Afraid to Ask is my favorite early film (especially for the Gene Wilder sketch--hey, whatever works); Annie Hall obviously; Interiors and Stardust Memories are both underrated; Broadway Danny Rose is a favorite, even if it looks less impressive on second viewing; The Purple Rose of Cairo is near-great but I hated the ending; Hannah and Her Sisters is probably his best film after Manhattan (which I've seen many times, and it always moves me); and Crimes and Misdemeanors is good, but I like Match Point better.

[MacGuffin]

Annie Hall is pretty excellent.

[baby doll]

Annie Hall is pretty excellent."I forgot my mantra."

[NickGlass]

The Purple Rose of Cairo is near-great but I hated the ending

Explain. I find the ending to be perfectly bittersweet.

[baby doll]

Explain. I find the ending to be perfectly bittersweet.It just seemed like a knee-jerk downer.

[Sycophant]

It just seemed like a knee-jerk downer.

Huh. The way I remember the film, its ending is a very logical endpoint. The rest of the film pretty much requires that ending, and it's pulled off beautifully.

[Spaceman Spiff]

It just seemed like a knee-jerk downer.

I agree with this. It just comes out of nowhere, and makes you feel like shit. It's all "... what?"

Match Point better than Crimes and Misdemeanors and Husbands and Wives, though? You're having a laugh.

[baby doll]

Match Point better than Crimes and Misdemeanors and Husbands and Wives, though? You're having a laugh.Unlike most people, I don't think Crimes and Misdemeanors is first tier Woody. The anguished soul-searching scenes with the Landau character wrestling with his conscience remind me too much of what's awful about Ingmar Bergman's work for me to totally get behind it. Match Point, apart from that one dream sequence near the end, just gets on with the story.

I haven't seen Husbands and Wives in many years, but if memory serves, only Judy Davis is playing a character who doesn't talk like Woody Allen.

[Watashi]

Disappointing. Despite being set in New York, the city didn't have the same energy it used to have in Woody's vintage days. David was great, Wood was terrible (but the most attractive she's ever been), and the last film goes exactly on auto-pilot.

I did like the chess scenes with David and the kids.

[Sxottlan]

I thought this was a cute movie.

[trotchky]

1. Whatever Works - really good
2. Match Point - mediocre
3. Vicky Cristina Barcelona - awful
4. Scoop - awful
5. Hollywood Ending - awful
6. The Curse of the Jade Scorpion - awful

So yeah, it's easily his best of the decade. Woody Allen is coming closer to making the Woody Allen movie I want to see, one where he addresses his unique thoughts and feelings at this stage in his life.

David is an effective stand-in and the ending seems like from-the-heart wish fulfillment; the optimism may not be consistent with the cold, objective facts of life but I get the feeling the mix of cliche and chance is something Allen really wants to believe in. It felt very genuine to me, which is an element conspicuously absent from all his other movies in the past ten years. Even if this is as close as we're going to get to a final statement on Woody Allen, by Woody Allen, it works well enough.

[Amnesiac]

I definitely liked this. I'm not sure how much. It's not a particularly heavy film (but, actually, it sort of is... but it lets the viewer do the heavy lifting rather than becoming something truly broody and despairing) and it never takes itself too seriously, but still touches on some sweet and thoughtful ideas. A lot of the characters are sort of caricatures but they also exude a lot of charm and do a good job of servicing some of Allen's familiar ideas (i.e., love never quite works out the way one expects it to, but the world is indifferent and love -- however idiosyncratic and occasionally disappointing -- is all we got). I also enjoyed Vicky Cristina Barcelona when I saw it last summer. I'm not sure which of the two I enjoyed better, though.

I think the best way to describe this one is bittersweet, which is apt considering that's a pretty fair description of life and considering that this film, like most within Allen's filmography, is contemplating the cruelties and ostensible meaninglessness of life. And, of course, showing us that even the most world weary kvetchers can find a sense of practical peace and satisfaction at the end of the day. Good message, but I guess I can see how some might call this a retread or claim that the pool is a little shallow here. I'm not quite sure that it actually is, though. Some more reflection on the film and a re-watch might confirm or deny this hypothesis...

Also, I thought Larry David was pretty great and even reached subtle depths that certainly wouldn't be found on Curb. Boris was a really great character.

Anyways, it was certainly amusing, fun, and often uplifting.... even though I found the resolution to Boris and Melodie's relationship kind of sad (hence the bittersweet factor) but ultimately appropriate, I guess. But still, I kind of like the idea that a relationship does not work on harmony but a certain amount of disharmony and that this, in some strange way, evokes a potent amount of catharsis and affection for both parties involved. That is, the idea that relationships thrive on dissonance rather than bland uniformity of thought and personality... while Melodie turning into a pseudo-Boris Jr. kind of goes against this idea, she nonetheless retained a lot of her more naive charm as a kind of counterbalance to Boris' overwhelming cynicism. I bought the idea that these two could work, and that they brought something fresh and stimulating to each other that somehow made their relationship feel right. It made sense, I felt.

Also, I read something last night about Allen's kind of mundane camera set-ups... and how Whatever Works is a prime example of how he's beginning to care less and less about how to inventively block a shot and is instead leaning towards more pragmatic, static, and standard set-ups. What does everyone else think about this? He has an aesthetic strategy, I'm sure, but is it 'lazy'? Is it just 'show what's happening, that's it'? The color palette in Whatever Works was definitely less stimulating than Vicky Cristina Barcelona but that makes sense here, especially considering the character we're dealing with (I'm referring specifically to the drab earth-tones of Boris' apartment).

That same article I read mentioned a shot from Whatever Works that really stood out to me, and I was glad to see I wasn't the only one to notice it. Did this stand out for anyone else? It's that brief tracking shot following Boris' limping journey across his shadowy apartment when Melodie goes out on her first date. There is something about that shot that was just so nicely executed, poignant yet amusing. The article I read attributed this to the fact Allen used Gus Van Sant's cinematographer (who had worked with Van Sant on Elephant, which showcases some of the best tracking shots I've ever seen) in this film.

[baby doll]

Woody Allen is coming closer to making the Woody Allen movie I want to see, one where he addresses his unique thoughts and feelings at this stage in his life.First of all, where does this particular aesthetic criterion leave the films that Allen's actually made, as opposed to some hypothetical ideal of your own as to what kind of film he should make? I'd much rather discuss films that exist.

As far as his own unique thoughts and feelings, aren't those going to slip out anyway through whatever kind of content he chooses to pursue? Match Point pretty plainly addresses his thoughts and feelings on luck, which come up again in Whatever Works (Larry David literally falls over his ideal woman).

[trotchky]

First of all, where does this particular aesthetic criterion leave the films that Allen's actually made, as opposed to some hypothetical ideal of your own as to what kind of film he should make? I'd much rather discuss films that exist.

As far as his own unique thoughts and feelings, aren't those going to slip out anyway through whatever kind of content he chooses to pursue? Match Point pretty plainly addresses his thoughts and feelings on luck, which come up again in Whatever Works (Larry David literally falls over his ideal woman).

Match Point is one of the better ones for that reason, yes. As for the rest, they're just bad movies. My criterion may be selfish and unreasonable; doesn't change the fact that his output this decade has been light-weight and frivolous, if not outright dishonest.

[baby doll]

Match Point is one of the better ones for that reason, yes. As for the rest, they're just bad movies. My criterion may be selfish and unreasonable; doesn't change the fact that his output this decade has been light-weight and frivolous, if not outright dishonest.No, apart from Match Point, he hasn't done anything very ambitious since at least Husbands and Wives. But what do you expect post-Mia Farrow?

[trotchky]

No, apart from Match Point, he hasn't done anything very ambitious since at least Husbands and Wives. But what do you expect post-Mia Farrow?

I don't expect, but would like, for him to make a movie about boning Mia Farrow's daughter. Whatever Works is at least half-way there.

[baby doll]

I don't expect, but would like, for him to make a movie about boning Mia Farrow's daughter. Whatever Works is at least half-way there.So every film he makes now has to be about a tabloid scandal from over fifteen years ago? By the way, if you're so interested in his marriage, check out Barbara Kopple's Wild Man Blues, but it may not be as intimate of a portrait as you seem to desire.

[trotchky]

So every film he makes now has to be about a tabloid scandal from over fifteen years ago? By the way, if you're so interested in his marriage, check out Barbara Kopple's Wild Man Blues, but it may not be as intimate of a portrait as you seem to desire.

I was being semi-facetious. I don't necessarily want to see him make a movie solely about marrying his ex-wife's daughter (although that could be very interesting), but more generally, one about his thoughts and fears and person at this stage in his life. Woody Allen's greatest movies, I think, are largely auto-biographical, even if the details are fiction. I want a movie about Woody the 73 year old man, just as Annie Hall was, at least in part, about Woody the 40 year old.

[baby doll]

I was being semi-facetious. I don't necessarily want to see him make a movie solely about marrying his ex-wife's daughter (although that could be very interesting), but more generally, one about his thoughts and fears and person at this stage in his life. Woody Allen's greatest movies, I think, are largely auto-biographical, even if the details are fiction. I want a movie about Woody the 73 year old man, just as Annie Hall was, at least in part, about Woody the 40 year old.Well, I don't think one can talk, write or make a film about their life without turning it into fiction. Furthermore, I don't know for a fact how autobiographical any of Allen's films are, and really couldn't care less.

[trotchky]

Well, I don't think one can talk, write or make a film about their life without turning it into fiction.

I don't necessarily disagree, which is why I said his films were auto-biographical "even if the details were fiction."


Furthermore, I don't know for a fact how autobiographical any of Allen's films are, and really couldn't care less.

I don't know for a fact either, but I do know that his best films come off as very personal statements, whether that means love for a city or love for a woman. His newer films don't have that personal touch. What's more, there's a reason Woody Allen basically plays the same character in all the movies he's in. Whether or not that character is who he is in real life, it's pretty clearly a persona of his. Which, as you stated, doesn't make it any less real, even if it's fiction.

And, okay, you couldn't care less. That's fine. When we get down to it, I don't think it really matters either. What does matter is that he used to make interesting movies and now he doesn't.

[baby doll]

I don't know for a fact either, but I do know that his best films come off as very personal statements, whether that means love for a city or love for a woman. His newer films don't have that personal touch.Whatever Allen does, it's going to have a personal touch to it because he made it. It's his. How else do we know his personality except through his films? In Whatever Works, when Larry David ends his opening monologue by saying that his expertise was string theory, and then we hear opera music on the soundtrack, that's a very Allenesque transition. And having the character speak directly to camera and making him a perennial pessimist both hark back to Annie Hall. He can put a personal touch on a film without it being a thinly veiled autobiography about his feelings for an actress or the city where he's shooting.


What's more, there's a reason Woody Allen basically plays the same character in all the movies he's in. Whether or not that character is who he is in real life, it's pretty clearly a persona of his. Which, as you stated, doesn't make it any less real, even if it's fiction.And one definition of a persona is "the role that one assumes or displays in public or society; one's public image or personality, as distinguished from the inner self." John Wayne always played cowboys and Asia Argento always plays super-skanks, but I don't think that's who they are in real life, as much as one might want it to be true.


And, okay, you couldn't care less. That's fine. When we get down to it, I don't think it really matters either. What does matter is that he used to make interesting movies and now he doesn't.He made a lot of crap in 70s and 80s, too.

[trotchky]

He made one bad movie in the seventies (Love and Death) and no bad movies in the eighties, that I've seen. Even Love and Death is better than everything he's made this decade, with the exception of Whatever Works.

And, yeah, Larry David talking into the camera in Whatever Works harks back to Annie Hall. Did you expect me to disagree with that? I've been saying Whatever Works is the most personal movie Allen has made in ten years this whole time.

Look, this argument clearly isn't going anywhere, so I'll leave it at this: at some point Allen stopped making movies that came across as aggressive personal statements and started making movies that came across as escapist fantasy. His personal touch might be on movies like Scoop and Vicky Cristina Barcelona; that doesn't make them deep or insightful or poignant, certainly not in the same way his best movies are.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I largely agree with you trotchky, but don't be hatin' on Love and Death.

[baby doll]

He made one bad movie in the seventies (Love and Death) and no bad movies in the eighties, that I've seen. Even Love and Death is better than everything he's made this decade, with the exception of Whatever Works.In addition to Love and Death, I would add Bananas. And I turned off Sleeper after thirty minutes, but maybe it gets better. (The only one of his early, "funny" movies that I really like is Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex... But Were Afraid to Ask.) From the 80s, Zelig is pretty lame, and I have yet to see A Midsummer Night's Sex Dream primarily because I've never heard anybody say anything even remotely positive about it. Similarly, I haven't seen September, but according to Jonathan Rosenbaum at least, it's his very worst film. The only film from this decade I didn't like was Melinda and Melinda, although I've avoided seeing Hollywood Ending and Cassandra's Dream because of their low reputations.


And, yeah, Larry David talking into the camera in Whatever Works harks back to Annie Hall. Did you expect me to disagree with that? I've been saying Whatever Works is the most personal movie Allen has made in ten years this whole time.But it's personal in the sense that the style and choice of subject is distinctive and consistent with his previous work, not because of some buried autobiographical level.


Look, this argument clearly isn't going anywhere, so I'll leave it at this: at some point Allen stopped making movies that came across as aggressive personal statements and started making movies that came across as escapist fantasy. His personal touch might be on movies like Scoop and Vicky Cristina Barcelona; that doesn't make them deep or insightful or poignant, certainly not in the same way his best movies are.I've never looked to Woody Allen for depth or insight. He usually takes one pretty obvious idea (life isn't fair, life depends on luck, relationships are irrational) and builds a film around it (Crimes and Misdemeanors, Match Point, Whatever Works).

In terms of escapism and aggressive personal statements, I think the two are hard to distinguish. Rosenbaum considers Annie Hall--the first Allen picture to be treated seriously--a pure entertainment like all the films preceding it, but structurally it's closer to a European relationship film like Scenes From a Marriage than a Hollywood romantic comedy, where getting into a relationship is the end result and not something that has to be sustained (Whatever Works is arguably closer to the mark in that sense). On the other hand, he considers Broadway Danny Rose (one of his favorites and mine) an art picture because it's in black-and-white, although as in Manhattan (an art picture or a romantic comedy?), Gordon Willis' cinematography is more nostalgic than arty, harking back to the Hollywood movies of Allen's youth. The Purple Rose of Cairo starts out as escapism but cribs its ending from Fellini's Nights of Cabiria (even if it perverts the message into something along the lines of: life sucks and escapist movies are better), while Radio Days depoliticizes Amarcord, leaving only the nostalgia. Hannah and Her Sisters (one of his biggest commercial hits) and Crimes and Misdemeanors both have art movie elements, but their contrasting of comic and serious elements is plainly modeled after Chaplin (an entertainer or an artist?). Of his recent films, Match Point likewise has art movie elements (we see the hero reading Crime and Punishment), but it also has elements of a thriller (the protagonist is something of a homme fatale). Even if there are fewer art movie elements in his other recent films, they haven't totally vanished: Small Time Crooks is an homage to Big Deal on Madonna Street (an entertainment but an Italian one); The Curse of the Jade Scorpion is another nostalgic throwback to the films of Allen's youth, like The Purple Rose of Cairo; and Anything Else is a relationship film, like Annie Hall and Manhattan. In any event, I think all these movies--even the more escapist ones--have plenty of personal elements, even if it's just borrowing from films he likes, which is after all an expression of personal taste.

[Thirdmango]

This one hit me personally quite a bit so I loved it probably more then most people have. It was awesome and I loved the Hell out of it, easily in my top 3 fave Allen movies.

[baby doll]

This one hit me personally quite a bit so I loved it probably more then most people have. It was awesome and I loved the Hell out of it, easily in my top 3 fave Allen movies.What chu talkin' about, Willis?

Might I recommend you watch (or if need be, rewatch) Annie Hall, Interiors, Manhattan, Stardust Memories, Broadway Danny Rose, The Purple Rose of Cairo (despite the ending), Hannah and Her Sisters, Radio Days, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Husbands and Wives, and Match Point?

[Sycophant]

I really enjoyed this. Probably Woody's second best this decade, after Vicky Cristina Barcelona. Larry David is a marvelous choice for the Woody Allen stand-in role, as he brings something uniquely Larry to it. Some of the jokes felt tired and occasionally the marriage of seventies and aughts Allen felt just a tad discordant, but I was laughing throughout, the dialogue was mostly very sharp (in a punchy way I haven't seen as much from the man in his last fwe comedies), and, well, it was all pretty cute. Enjoyable stuff.

[Thirdmango]

What chu talkin' about, Willis?

Might I recommend you watch (or if need be, rewatch) Annie Hall, Interiors, Manhattan, Stardust Memories, Broadway Danny Rose, The Purple Rose of Cairo (despite the ending), Hannah and Her Sisters, Radio Days, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Husbands and Wives, and Match Point?

and I quote: This one hit me personally quite a bit so I loved it probably more then most people have.

[Amnesiac]

Some of the jokes felt tired and occasionally the marriage of seventies and aughts Allen felt just a tad discordant

When? The shoehorned Obama joke?

[Sycophant]

When? The shoehorned Obama joke?

That was weird. The fourth wall stuff also just felt like the kind of thing Allen's not as likely to do anymore. I'd have a hard time putting my finger on precise moments, really, now that the film's already receded in my memory a bit.

[Qrazy]

In addition to Love and Death, I would add Bananas. And I turned off Sleeper after thirty minutes, but maybe it gets better. (The only one of his early, "funny" movies that I really like is Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex... But Were Afraid to Ask.) From the 80s, Zelig is pretty lame, and I have yet to see A Midsummer Night's Sex Dream primarily because I've never heard anybody say anything even remotely positive about it. Similarly, I haven't seen September, but according to Jonathan Rosenbaum at least, it's his very worst film. The only film from this decade I didn't like was Melinda and Melinda, although I've avoided seeing Hollywood Ending and Cassandra's Dream because of their low reputations.


My two cents. Bananas is the funniest film he's made. Love and Death is not a bad film but I actually do agree that of his earlier period it's one of the weakest. Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex is also one of his weakest earlier period films and as someone who has railed against episodic narratives in the past I'm surprised you praise it so highly. However, the sheep episode is indeed quite excellent. Zelig is also very good but far from one of his best films which many MatchCutters seem to feel. A Midsummer Night's Sex Comedy possesses Allen's greatest weakness. It has horribly obnoxious characters. But it also possesses Allen's greatest strength. Gordon Willis. Zing! jk, I like Allen.

[baby doll]

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex is also one of his weakest earlier period films and as someone who has railed against episodic narratives in the past I'm surprised you praise it so highly.I think in this case (and Oedipus Wrecks), Allen's ideas are better suited to the short form than a feature-length elaboration. (Come to think of it, has he ever made a film longer than two hours? He's like the anti-Rivette.) I mean, some of the sketches are pretty half baked, but none of them overstay their welcome--unlike What's Up, Tiger Lily?

[Ezee E]

Enjoyed this solely for the Larry David factor who was brilliant in what is otherwise a mediocre script that the actors couldn't pull off. The other characters all seemed forced.

I hope they work together again.

[trotchky]

Did anyone understand the "Am I a member of my generation?" line? Was that supposed to be a joke or something?

[ledfloyd]

I really enjoyed this. Probably Woody's second best this decade, after Vicky Cristina Barcelona. Larry David is a marvelous choice for the Woody Allen stand-in role, as he brings something uniquely Larry to it. Some of the jokes felt tired and occasionally the marriage of seventies and aughts Allen felt just a tad discordant, but I was laughing throughout, the dialogue was mostly very sharp (in a punchy way I haven't seen as much from the man in his last fwe comedies), and, well, it was all pretty cute. Enjoyable stuff.
pretty much.

i enjoyed it, but it's missing something to push it over the top.

[lovejuice]

as likable as the movie is, i feel oddly resisting to its charm. can't quite put my finger down. perhaps it's because boris, his wife and their marriage are the least developed aspects of this charade. i enjoy mini-arch by the supporting cast, but the movie is like a donut with an unfillable hole in the middle.