28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Derek]

The last installment is great. It's so much fun when a thoughtful filmmaker takes on comedy.

The one with the stamp collector, right? That is a great one. 7 is one of my favorite installments as well.

[Raiders]

Les Vampires (Fieullade, 1915) ****

http://www.letsbefriendsagain.com/images/OrsonWellesClap.gif

[elixir]

The one with the stamp collector, right? That is a great one. 7 is one of my favorite installments as well.

It's hard for me to pick out favorites, but at this point (it could easily change!) I would say 1 and 5 have had the biggest impact on me. 3 is definitely my least favorite though (but it's still good).

[Dukefrukem]

Schwarzenegger coming back to the big screen. announced today.

[Skitch]

Enjoying my first viewing of Akira on blu ray.

The scope of this film never ceases to amaze me. Its commentary of politics, religion, friendship, youth, power, science, technology,military...coupled with such an amazing score...

If JGL doesn't get cast as Tetsuo in the folly of a live action remake their sure to do one day, I will lose many a hair to grayness.

[Scar]

Enjoying my first viewing of Akira on blu ray.

The scope of this film never ceases to amaze me. Its commentary of politics, religion, friendship, youth, power, science, technology,military...coupled with such an amazing score...

If JGL doesn't get cast as Tetsuo in the folly of a live action remake their sure to do one day, I will lose many a hair to grayness.

I've got the first four volumes of the graphic novel, and holy hell is it different, but still very excellent. I think the final volume is being re-released next month.

[Skitch]

I've got the first four volumes of the graphic novel, and holy hell is it different, but still very excellent. I think the final volume is being re-released next month.

:frustrated:

You have no idea how ashamed I am that I don't have, or haven't read the graphic novel series. Seems every time I come across it, I'm lacking funds.

Being perfectly honest as well, I'm terrified of what I call the 'Jurassic Park Effect'. I'll fall in love with the film and the book(s) will be so far superior it will ruin the film.

[Qrazy]

The one with the stamp collector, right? That is a great one. 7 is one of my favorite installments as well.

Yep. And yes, 7 is wonderful also.

[Rowland]

Weekend Possibilities:

Hadewijch
Father of My Children
Fish Tank
Four Lions
The Milk of Sorrow
The Girl on the Train

Depends on available time and what I'm in the mood for.

[D_Davis]

My Epic color version of the Akira comic is something I collected that thing for almost 8 years, beginning when I was in 8th grade. Issue 16 is my single favorite comic book - ever.

I'm due for re-watch. I have a really nice VHS copy of the Japanese LD that looks amazing - better than the last remastered DVD; at least I think so. The re-master seems a little too polished and clean. However, I don't have a VCR anymore, and the sound is better on the DVD. Oh well.

[MadMan]

*The Wire Season 1
*Alphaville

Probably nothing else, although it depends on what I rent from the library later today.

[soitgoes...]

My Dekalog ratings by episode:

1 - 10/10
2 - 8.5/10
3 - 7.5/10
4 - 9.0/10
5 - 10/10
6 - 10/10
7 - 8.5/10
8 - 9.0/10
9 - 9.0/10
10 - 10/10

[Mysterious Dude]

1. "no other gods" ("You worship your computer instead of Me, therefore I shall KILL YOUR SON!") **½
2. "name in vain" **½
3. "sabbath day" (I don't remember a damn thing about this episode. I think there was some driving involved.)
4. "honor thy father" (That guy raised you from birth by himself, so what is the fucking problem?) **
5. "thou shalt not kill" (I like this episode. It's a lot more cinematic than the others. Less like a filmed play. And murder is cool.) ***½
6. "commit adultery" **½
7. "thou shalt not steal" ***

That's all I've seen so far. Someday, I'll get to the last disc, if it ever works its way up my Netflix queue.

[elixir]

So, I've just viewed two Truffaut films recently, The Wild Child and Two English Girls.

The Wild Child was quite good, because it was certainly humane without ever getting sentimental or trite (and one can easily imagine that happening with this type of story). I am immediately fascinated by cases of this kind, I must admit. I think the decision to shoot in black and white was very on the mark, and the use of the iris shot (just learned what it was called!) was very effective. And yeah, though this was a more extreme case, this just reinforced my belief that Truffaut is do damn good at dealing with childhood.

But Two English Girls was better...it was really fantastic, I thought. I much prefer this love triangle to the more famous Jules and Jim. Mind you, they are quite different, as one is much more whimsical and this is more subdued. It's a very beautiful movie, with soft color palettes (same cinematographer as The Wild Child, and I understood he won the Oscar for Days of Heaven, which I've yet to see) and great use of country landscapes. The story itself surprisingly moved me, aided by a number of narrative tricks like when characters speak directly to the camera or the use of diary entries and again, the iris shot was used several times. Additionally, the narration never became too literary and was sparsely uses, and I found the score to be very melodic and touching and was utilized only sparingly too great effect. Plus, Jean-Pierre Leaud, who I love, was great in it. People who find Truffaut to be frivolous, which I don't, please check this out! But especially if you are a fan of the guy at all, I would recommend it. I would say it's my second favorite of his now. Also, on a more superficial note, I found (the actress playing) Anne to be incredibly beautiful.

[elixir]

1. "no other gods" ("You worship your computer instead of Me, therefore I shall KILL YOUR SON!") **½
2. "name in vain" **½
3. "sabbath day" (I don't remember a damn thing about this episode. I think there was some driving involved.)
4. "honor thy father" (That guy raised you from birth by himself, so what is the fucking problem?) **
5. "thou shalt not kill" (I like this episode. It's a lot more cinematic than the others. Less like a filmed play. And murder is cool.) ***½
6. "commit adultery" **½
7. "thou shalt not steal" ***

That's all I've seen so far. Someday, I'll get to the last disc, if it ever works its way up my Netflix queue.

:sad:

[NickGlass]

Weekend Possibilities:

Father of My Children

Depends on available time and what I'm in the mood for.

Oh, oh, watch this one. Even on Match Cut I feel like it's so underseen.

[Spun Lepton]

Surrogates is bland and disjointed. It seems like it's missing chunks of story. The villain is much too easy to figure out. Great character actors are underused / ignored. Bruce Willis phones it in.

Analyze That has a few funny moments, but it's also bland. It starts out with Billy Crystal as the lead, but right around middle of the 2nd act, Crystal becomes a supporting character to De Niro. The blooper-filled credits sequence at the end has the most laughs. How sad is that?

[Spun Lepton]

Also ... I watched Strange Brew for the eleventy-billiionth time. This was a favorite when I was 12, and while it certainly has its share of problems, I love it dearly and it never fails to crack me up. I give it an extremely biased rating of 10/10.

Somebody horked our clothes!
Who'd wanna hork our clothes, eh?
Maybe one'a these guys got tired'a wearin' their pajamas, eh.

[D_Davis]

I'm going to watch the Mad Mission aka Aces Go Places films this weekend. Just got my DVD box set. It'll be a good time.

http://shop.movie-vision.de/portal/artikel/pics/9827507-12-07-05-11-14-50.jpg

[megladon8]

I predict the movies will not be near as awesome or exciting as that cover would lead you to believe.

Such is so often the case.

[D_Davis]

I predict the movies will not be near as awesome or exciting as that cover would lead you to believe.

Such is so often the case.

Oh no - they're awesome. I've seen them before on VHS. They're a total riot. Tsui Hark directed the 3rd one - "Our Man from Bond Street" which features Jaws as a villain. Probably some of the best spoof/send-ups of all time. Tons of crazy action and adventure and WTF moments.

[megladon8]

Oh no - they're awesome. I've seen them before on VHS. They're a total riot. Tsui Hark directed the 3rd one - "Our Man from Bond Street" which features Jaws as a villain. Probably some of the best spoof/send-ups of all time. Tons of crazy action and adventure and WTF moments.


Are they like, Danger: Diabolik! kind of stuff?

[Sycophant]

Oh man. I've been warning to see Aces Go Places for forever. Gotta get my hands on that.

[D_Davis]

Are they like, Danger: Diabolik! kind of stuff?

More like Cannonball Run meets The Pink Panther and The Italian Job, with kung fu. If you could combine them into one super movie, it might remind someone of It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, with kung fu. They have a big, "super-star" cast of internationals including Peter Graves, Tsui Hark, Karl Maka, Sam Hui, Richard Kiel, and Sylvia Chang. Just super-zany, madcap kind of stuff. Perfect movies to throw on at 2 in the morning after a night of drinking.

[D_Davis]

Oh man. I've been warning to see Aces Go Places for forever. Gotta get my hands on that.

I got the DVD box set on Amazon for like $10.

[Skitch]

Also ... I watched Strange Brew for the eleventy-billiionth time. This was a favorite when I was 12, and while it certainly has its share of problems, I love it dearly and it never fails to crack me up. I give it an extremely biased rating of 10/10.
.

Absolute truth.

[MadMan]

Also ... I watched Strange Brew for the eleventy-billiionth time. This was a favorite when I was 12, and while it certainly has its share of problems, I love it dearly and it never fails to crack me up. I give it an extremely biased rating of 10/10.

Somebody horked our clothes!
Who'd wanna hork our clothes, eh?
Maybe one'a these guys got tired'a wearin' their pajamas, eh.My buddy owns this movie, and we've seen it a bunch of times. Its hilarious, and plus it has Max Von Sydow as the bad guy, which is really cool. Clearly this movie is one of the best things Canada has to offer us ;)

[Stay Puft]

Oh, oh, watch this one. Even on Match Cut I feel like it's so underseen.

According to E's thread, only four of us have seen it. So, definitely.

One of my favorites of the year, too.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Finally got around to discussing Haxan. Put it on my blog (http://horrorfilms101.blogspot.com), where it comes with screen-grabs. I'll put it here too.


Witchcraft feels larger than it is. The subject's more exploitable elements obscure the fact that witchcraft, as we see it now, is a Christian invention. They emerged from the Church's persecution of women who dabbled in non-religious Because the spells and remedies associated with traditional "witchcraft" didn't fall under the umbrella of Christ's teachings, and, theoretically, no magic could exist outside the boundaries of a Christian worldview, the Church concluded that witchcraft was the work of Satan. They instigated the confessions, they perpetuated the cliches, and those persecuted, with no alternative, contributed to a lurid feedback loop of moonlit dances, infanticide, and Faustian bargains.

So I can understand why director Benjamin Christensen wallows in generalities for most of Haxan. Despite the information supplied by title cards, the film spends most of its time showcasing the emotions, rather than the realities, of Medieval witch-hunts. Christensen communicates those emotions with vignettes centered around basic characters likely to exist in that time. Satan tempts a homely woman into a coven. A clergyman witnesses the potential result of his greed. In the film's centerpiece, an old woman suffers unendurable torture. Her pain leads to a sad confession, in which she claims allegiance to Satan and offers other names for the inquisitors.

These anecdotal stories, broad and melodramatic, build into compelling short stories thanks to the zealous acting and the splendor of Christensen's visions. Maren Pederson, 78 at the time of filming, portrays the old hag with such desperation and teary-eyed fear that she feels utterly genuine. (The actress purportedly confided to the director that she believed in Satan and had once seen him in the flesh.) Christensen himself plays the Devil with plenty of glee and energy. His erect posture, muscular chest, and slippery tongue emphasize the carnal pleasures that supposedly drove old and neglected women into his arms.

Haxan's delirious visions, ostensibly in the name of nonfiction, achieve a grandeur equal to any horror film of its era, and superior to some, like Murnau's handsome-but-uneven Faust. The most stunning scene involves a monk tempted by the gaiety of dancers and demons. As he dreams, the revelry brings him closer and closer to a room decorated as a demonic face: the man risks being literally swallowed up by his desires. By painting with such an expressionistic brush, Christensen tries to take us past facts and into the minds of people who lived in a time of great uncertainty, which was often healed by the salve of superstition. Witchcraft was something tangible, and we see everything they expected to see.

However, I wonder if Christensen missed an opportunity to provide more concrete details. In addition to the film languishing on the most outrageous (and false) claims of the Church, Haxan's conclusion rings false. Christensen suggests that the victims of witch-hunts probably suffered from mental afflictions like kleptomania and somnambulism. However, many of the witch-trials came about not from psychological ailments, but from either land-hungry upper-class or Church officials trying to maintain power. Authentic evidence was incidental, and false evidence that met expectations could be "revealed" with ease, given the appropriate tools.

Furthermore, by focusing so much on the images, Christensen displays the type of morbid fascination that led to such creations. Which is to say, he sometimes appears more interested in the visions of liars than the persecution of innocents. His method - of using the very real witch-trials of the Middle Ages as a means of highlighting macabre visions - grows discomfiting at times. However, those feelings of unease do little to dispel the power of the film's vision. Christensen's approach keeps Haxan brisk, bold, and beautifully stylized. If the film's ultimately inaccurate in its details, it remains an important landmark of early horror cinema, a mostly-honorable documentary, and a feast for any pair of eyes...

...even DEVIL EYES.

[megladon8]

Wonderful review, DaMU.

Still need to see this one.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Wonderful review, DaMU.

Still need to see this one.

Thank you sir!

:)

It's pretty damn cool. Then again, I'm a sucker for silent expressionism.

[Qrazy]

What did people here think of Megamind? I enjoyed it.

[Qrazy]

I don't like Haxan.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I don't like Haxan.

For why?

[Qrazy]

For why?

Too disjointed and visually mediocre.

[endingcredits]

Weekend viewings:

Eccentricities of a Blond-haired Girl (de Oliveira, 2009)
Everyone Else (Ade, 2009)
Mother and Son (Sokurov, 1997)

[D_Davis]

Too disjointed and visually mediocre.

You're disjointed and visually mediocre.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Too disjointed and visually mediocre.

It's definitely disjointed, but I didn't mind that. As for visually mediocre...bah, I say!

[Qrazy]

You're disjointed and visually mediocre.

That goes without saying.

[Qrazy]

Weekend viewings:

Eccentricities of a Blond-haired Girl (de Oliveira, 2009)
Everyone Else (Ade, 2009)
Mother and Son (Sokurov, 1997)

Have you watched Sokurov's Days of Eclipse? I can't remember.

[Derek]

Weekend viewings:

Eccentricities of a Blond-haired Girl (de Oliveira, 2009)
Everyone Else (Ade, 2009)
Mother and Son (Sokurov, 1997)

Good, great, greatest!

[Derek]

Have you watched Sokurov's Days of Eclipse? I can't remember.

I really need to remember to watch that. I've let it sit unwatched for way too long.

[Ivan Drago]

Just got finished re-watching Exit Through The Gift Shop, and it gets better and better the more I think about it. One question I want to ask about it, though; what's the significance of the title?

[Derek]

Just got finished re-watching Exit Through The Gift Shop, and it gets better and better the more I think about it. One question I want to ask about it, though; what's the significance of the title?

Think of why the phrase "exit through the gift shop" is used. It's so people can mindlessly select a souvenir of kitschy art not necessarily because it holds any value or meaning for them, but simply to display it as a trophy (I went there, I saw that). It's art reduced to consumer status symbol. Definitely in line with Banksy and co.'s focus on the authenticity and popularity of Mr. Brainwash's art.

[Ezee E]

Think of why the phrase "exit through the gift shop" is used. It's so people can mindlessly select a souvenir of kitschy art not necessarily because it holds any value or meaning for them, but simply to display it as a trophy (I went there, I saw that). It's art reduced to consumer status symbol. Definitely in line with Banksy and co.'s focus on the authenticity and popularity of Mr. Brainwash's art.
Agreed. Love the title too.

[Watashi]

If it wasn't for Fincher, Banksy would be my director of the year. I can't imagine how much footage he went through to piece everything together.

If the movie was geniune of course (which I think it is).

[Derek]

If it wasn't for Fincher, Banksy would be my director of the year. I can't imagine how much footage he went through to piece everything together.

If the movie was geniune of course (which I think it is).

But that's much more in the editing than directing.

EDIT: And it's an incredibly well edited film.

[Watashi]

But that's much more in the editing than directing.

EDIT: And it's an incredibly well edited film.
Banksy had to be there with the editor and specifically pick certain videos he wanted to be featured.

[Derek]

Banksy had to be there with the editor and specifically pick certain videos he wanted to be featured.

True. I'm not arguing Banksy wasn't heavily involved in the editing process. Picking what existing videos/cuts to show is editing, not directing is my point.

[Ezee E]

Banksy had to be there with the editor and specifically pick certain videos he wanted to be featured.
Banksy still had to pick a direction that all that footage went in.

And, it's got to be real, just look up Mr. Brainwash footage on youtube. It's all there, even him interviewing Carson Daly about opening a new arthouse, and being him.

[Mysterious Dude]

True. I'm not arguing Banksy wasn't heavily involved in the editing process. Picking what existing videos/cuts to show is editing, not directing is my point.
Hm. Do you think the same thing about Werner Herzog's contribution to Grizzly Man?

[Derek]

Hm. Do you think the same thing about Werner Herzog's contribution to Grizzly Man?

To a certain degree, yes, I find that more impressive for its editing than direction. However, Herzog definitely adds an element of weirdness through direction, such as excessively long takes of his interviewees staring at the camera while not saying anything - I specifically remember the shot of the coroner, but there were several others, as there are in many of his docs. He manages to shape his own reality with techniques like that, interjecting artifice throughout the film both stylistically and through how he interacts with his on-screen subjects. So I guess I'd say Grizzly Man shows more sign of a directorial effort than Exit, not that that necessarily makes it a better film.

[baby doll]

Part of what's interesting about Exit Through the Gift Shop is that it obscures the whole notion of authorship. (I don't think Banksy takes a conventional "directed by" credit, if memory serves.) I mean, those titles only make sense in the context of a commercial film production, where there's a strict, union-enforced division of labor, and directors often don't have control of how their material is edited together.

That said, I do think it's one of the best-edited movies of the year, not because some poor trainee editor had to go through all that footage looking for the best bits, but because it's so well put together as storytelling.

[number8]

Guys, in documentary filmmaking, the editing is directing. Directing just means leading the shape, tone and pace of a film. That's exactly what you're doing when you're piecing dozens of hours of footage into 90 minutes.

[Derek]

Guys, in documentary filmmaking, the editing is directing. Directing just means leading the shape, tone and pace of a film. That's exactly what you're doing when you're piecing dozens of hours of footage into 90 minutes.

There's definitely not a cut and dry difference between directing and editing in documentary film, but to say they're one and the same simply isn't always the case. But whatever, not really interested in getting into semantics argument over this.

[DavidSeven]

I'm guessing Banksy dictated the shape and tone of the narrative to his editor. He probably even pointed them to specific footage from a log composed by a team of editors or PAs. Creating the log was probably the bulk of the work, but that probably consisted of mindlessly watching the footage and writing summaries of what happened. I doubt Banksy was involved much there. My assumption is that he used the footage log to formulate a vision of his film, which was subsequently fine tuned by higher level editors. A few stages of trial and error later, we have a film. That's my best guess of how this whole thing came together. He wasn't "on location" during most of the shooting, but I'm guessing this happens a lot in the documentary world.

[B-side]

So, I've kind of embarked on a pseudo-binge of Robert Siodmak's work. Very spur of the moment thing. Reviews for the first two films I watched are in the blog. I've got The Dark Mirror and Christmas Holiday lined up. I'm sticking to his noir/thriller works for now. Probably save The Killers for last.

[Rowland]

Finally got around to discussing Haxan.Glad you gave this a shot and liked it, even if you found it more problematic than I did.

[Rowland]

I find it really difficult to seriously entertain the notion that Exit Through the Gift Shop is presented to us in a genuine fashion, as it seems is the consensus so far, but the mind-meltingly elaborate ambiguity certainly enriches the piece.

[Rowland]

So, I've kind of embarked on a pseudo-binge of Robert Siodmak's work. Very spur of the moment thing. Reviews for the first two films I watched are in the blog. I've got The Dark Mirror and Christmas Holiday lined up. I'm sticking to his noir/thriller works for now. Probably save The Killers for last.The Spiral Staircase is the shit.

[B-side]

The Spiral Staircase is the shit.

Yeah, it clips along nicely and maintains a strong atmosphere. I have a feeling I'll like it even more on a future rewatch.

[Qrazy]

What did people here think of Megamind? I enjoyed it.

.

[megladon8]

One more vote for The Spiral Staircase being the proverbial shiznit.

Wonderful movie, that one.

[Spinal]

.

MEGAMIND - 2 out of 5
yay - Sxottlan, Watashi
nay - philosophe_rouge, balmakboor, StanleyK

[EyesWideOpen]

MEGAMIND - 2 out of 5
yay - Sxottlan, Watashi
nay - philosophe_rouge, balmakboor, StanleyK

I'll add:

http://www.match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=3149&highlight=megamind

[Grouchy]

Guys, in documentary filmmaking, the editing is directing. Directing just means leading the shape, tone and pace of a film. That's exactly what you're doing when you're piecing dozens of hours of footage into 90 minutes.
Pretty much.

[soitgoes...]

.I liked it enough. It tried to be funnier than it is (you could use this line for most Will Ferrell movies). I enjoyed the premise.

[Derek]

I'm guessing Banksy dictated the shape and tone of the narrative to his editor. He probably even pointed them to specific footage from a log composed by a team of editors or PAs. Creating the log was probably the bulk of the work, but that probably consisted of mindlessly watching the footage and writing summaries of what happened. I doubt Banksy was involved much there. My assumption is that he used the footage log to formulate a vision of his film, which was subsequently fine tuned by higher level editors. A few stages of trial and error later, we have a film. That's my best guess of how this whole thing came together. He wasn't "on location" during most of the shooting, but I'm guessing this happens a lot in the documentary world.

Pretty much.

[Qrazy]

I liked it enough. It tried to be funnier than it is (you could use this line for most Will Ferrell movies). I enjoyed the premise.

Agreed on both counts.

[Milky Joe]

So there's a restored print of Heaven's Gate showing here in Portland the next few days. Should I go see it? It looks so loooong.

[baby doll]

So there's a restored print of Heaven's Gate showing here in Portland the next few days. Should I go see it? It looks so loooong.Definitely.

[soitgoes...]

So there's a restored print of Heaven's Gate showing here in Portland the next few days. Should I go see it? It looks so loooong.If you should ever see the film, I would recommend a theater viewing.

[Derek]

So there's a restored print of Heaven's Gate showing here in Portland the next few days. Should I go see it? It looks so loooong.

And it feels even longer, but if you're gonna see it, see it in the theater.

[Milky Joe]

Alright, guess I will. Between that and the stuff showing at the PIFF, it'll be a good week. Especially looking forward to seeing Uncle Boonme next week.

[balmakboor]

So there's a restored print of Heaven's Gate showing here in Portland the next few days. Should I go see it? It looks so loooong.

I just watched it again this evening. Yeah, I'm totally in love with the movie. And, no, I don't think it feels long at all. It's a very brisk 219 minutes.

I saw it on the big screen back in the '80s as part of the Seattle Film Festival. Yes, that's the way to go if you get the chance.

[B-side]

One more vote for The Spiral Staircase being the proverbial shiznit.

Wonderful movie, that one.

Would you or Rowland happen to remember what it was that caused Helen to become mute?

I feel like it had something to do with her mother's death, but I deleted the film right afterward so I can't go back and check, and none of the reviews I've skimmed spoke of it.

[Sven]

Thank you thank you thank you Daniel Davis, for the use of your fine projection screen to view your excellent copy of The Blade, a revelation. Reminds me that I should watch more movies one of these days.

[B-side]

Crimson Tide might be my favorite Scott so far. Definitely feels like a predecessor to the likes of his hyperclassical 2000s work, and not just in terms of its formal immediacy and quality, but in its evocation of a class based hierarchy in a technically absorbed world. The surveillance motif he later engages more fruitfully is hinted at briefly as Hackman oversees his underlings in different parts of the submarine. Nuclear war is impending with Russia, so the obvious symbolic value of a red light seems appropriate under the circumstances and is merely one color amidst a veritable sea of garish, even expressionistic, primary colors radiating from radar screens, warning lights and sonar equipment. Political and masculine chest thumping and competing ideologies rage throughout as the camera is nearly constantly tilted to varying degrees racing under steel grating and through narrow hallways trying to keep up with the mile-a-minute actions and relays absolutely necessary for such a mission. Sure, it's a bit overly bombastic, and Zimmer's score is more annoying than efficient accompaniment, but it's a gripping, well shot political parable.

[balmakboor]

Thank you thank you thank you Daniel Davis, for the use of your fine projection screen to view your excellent copy of The Blade, a revelation. Reminds me that I should watch more movies one of these days.

Which release of The Blade was it? I have the only one I could find at the time about two or three years ago on hkflix. I really should watch it again soon.

[balmakboor]

I finally watched Cimino's Desperate Hours yesterday. What a strange, gonzo mess of a movie -- even moreso than Year of the Dragon. Even though the characters made almost no logical sense and the acting was strangely overwrought, I liked it. It's based on a stage play which I assume took place entirely within the house. Yet it is always when the film ventures outside of that setting that it becomes energetic, crazy fun. Mimi Rogers and Anthony Hopkins are the most awkwardly "miscast" married couple I've ever seen, but knowing Cimino's approach to casting I'm sure that was the whole intention. It's clearly an assault on traditional marriage with the intruders appearing in response to the couple's fighting, the final shootout is clearly an assault on the house itself, and when the family re-enters the house after the elimination of the intruders all we can hear inside is sobbing.

[endingcredits]

Have you watched Sokurov's Days of Eclipse? I can't remember.

Yeah, and I liked it a lot. Great atmosphere and sound.

[Sycophant]

Got the Postwar Kurosawa Eclipse set for my birthday. Of the five films, I've only seen one--I Live in Fear, which I love. Looking forward to catching up with some Kurosawa films that are under two hours long.

[megladon8]

Got the Postwar Kurosawa Eclipse set for my birthday. Of the five films, I've only seen one--I Live in Fear, which I love. Looking forward to catching up with some Kurosawa films that are under two hours long.


Great gift!

Enjoy!

I'll have to check these out myself!

[Sycophant]

Right after receiving those, I ordered the Hiroshi Shimizu and Kenji Mizoguchi sets. I need to figure out how to watch all of these. I've got all the enthusiasm, but none of the time.

[soitgoes...]

Right after receiving those, I ordered the Hiroshi Shimizu and Kenji Mizoguchi sets. I need to figure out how to watch all of these. I've got all the enthusiasm, but none of the time.Shimizu! Enjoy!

[Derek]

Mizoguchi [exclamation point][enthusiasm]

[B-side]

Two great Tony Scott thrillers back to back. Next up: Spy Game.

[Skitch]

Two great Tony Scott thrillers back to back. Next up: Spy Game.

Spy Game is really cool. Fun score too.

[Raiders]

Two great Tony Scott thrillers back to back. Next up: Spy Game.

I kind of get Crimson Tide, but Enemy of the State? Really?

[Dukefrukem]

I like the cast in Enemy of the State. Jamie Kennedy, Jack Black, Seth Green, Scott Caan, Jake Bussey, Jason Lee and Jon Voight!

[Wryan]

I kind of get Crimson Tide, but Enemy of the State? Really?

"BECAUSE YOU MADE A PHONE CALL!"

[Pip]

I must be missing something when it comes to Tony Scott.

[Adam]

Art house love for Tony Scott has always baffled me. Right up there with seeing Mission to Mars appearing on countless highbrow best of decade lists

[Raiders]

Art house love for Tony Scott has always baffled me. Right up there with seeing Mission to Mars appearing on countless highbrow best of decade lists

"Best of" might be a bit much, but Mission to Mars is a damn good film.

[baby doll]

True Romance, Beat the Devil, Domino, and DéjÃ* vu are all pretty terrific. In The Hunger, Top Gun, Enemy of the State, and Unstoppable, Scott brings a certain polish and professionalism to very mediocre material. And Man on Fire is just bad.

[Skitch]

"Best of" might be a bit much, but Mission to Mars is a damn good film.
THANK YOU.

*hums daaaaaaaaaance the night away*

[Pip]

I do rather like Domino. It looks like it was shot by the absinthe fairy.

DéjÃ* Vu was a pretty apt title since it felt like something I'd already seen a million times before.

The Hunger was awful after the first few minutes.

Crimson Tide got by on Tarantino's dialogue but was otherwise just another mid-90's submarine thriller.

I think that's all I've seen.

[Ezee E]

I enjoy Enemy of the State as a sort of sequel to The Conversation.

[balmakboor]

"Best of" might be a bit much, but Mission to Mars is a damn good film.

Agree completely.

[Spinal]

This is what I get for changing the thread title.

[megladon8]

Art house love for Tony Scott has always baffled me. Right up there with seeing Mission to Mars appearing on countless highbrow best of decade lists


Believe me, I feel the same way.

About Tony Scott, that is. I actually like Mission to Mars quite a bit.

[Spun Lepton]

This is what I get for changing the thread title.

Yah, but it has to be done because we all now that Twilight iz teh best movies evar and they got skrewed at the oSscars. Now that we losed the pretinse that moovies are art we can talk about wat reely matterz. Sparkley vampyres.

[baby doll]

I enjoy Enemy of the State as a sort of sequel to The Conversation.Yeah, that comparison doesn't help the movie one bit.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Mission to Mars is probably the best-shot space film since 2001, but that ending just pissed me the fuck off.

[Rowland]

Hey, I just realized that this week's US release Unknown, starring Liam Neeson, Diane Kruger, and Frank Langella, is directed by trash-auteur Jaume Collet-Sera (Orphan, House of Wax). Well huh.

[MadMan]

I enjoy Enemy of the State as a sort of sequel to The Conversation.Same here. And while elements of it are really over the top, I loved how Scott tackles the issue of 21st century digital paranoia. Plus it has Hackman chewing scenery, Vought as the bad guy, and Smith playing a pretty good everyman caught up in in all the craziness. I'm a fan, although of course The Conversation is the superior movie.

Unknown looks like one of the few early 2011 releases that I'm interested in seeing.

[Spinal]

Mission to Mars is probably the best-shot space film since 2001, but that ending just pissed me the fuck off.

Best part of the movie.

[Raiders]

Best part of the movie.

With the exception of the space dancing sequence, I agree. Though I imagine I also like the first 3/4 more than you.

[Spinal]

With the exception of the space dancing sequence, I agree. Though I imagine I also like the first 3/4 more than you.

I thought the stuff on Earth was pretty weak, but, in general, I was pretty positive (http://filmepidemic.blogspot.com/2007/06/mission-to-mars-de-palma-2000.html) on it.

[Grouchy]

I enjoy Enemy of the State as a sort of sequel to The Conversation.
That's pretty much the only thing I like about it. Enemy of the State has that shit I hate in movies where a guy is suddenly put in mortal peril and develops James Bond skills.

Mission to Mars is indeed a great work of sci-fi.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Best part of the movie.

I posted that with the expectation that someone on this forum would say these words, and that's kinda why I love this forum.

My reaction falls into two parts. (a) I think the idea of panspermia is fundamentally useless from a scientific standpoint, which makes its inclusion here frustrating. (b) I thought the effects were completely lacking, both as a means of generating awe and as physically convincing.

[Grouchy]

So, speaking about movies.

I saw that other Herzog movie, My Son, My Son, What Have You Done? and really flipped out. It doesn't have the scope or the manic energy of Bad Lieutenant (it's in fact a somewhat static movie, and the ones amongst you who watched it know exactly what I mean) but Herzog weirdness is not to be missed. I loved that he used Chavela Vargas music. This new Herzog is a bizarre animal that cleverly subverts the conventions of thrillers and makes an uncanny use of his actors - Udo Kier has probably never been used better in recent years.

I side with those who dislike Precious. Not so much the filmmaking by Lee Daniels, which is pretty nifty, but the manipulative and unsincere aspects of the script. Well, I knew I was gonna watch a movie about an outcast who leads a terrible life, but the film never caught my empathy. It just made everything so excessive that it almost became parody. Great acting all around, though. It's a good product without a soul. The book sounds a lot better, actually. I'd read that.

http://www.cinemaretro.com/uploads/WAYNE2.jpg

True Grit (2010) is incredible. I had both watched the original film and read the novel, enjoyed the hell out of both and I think the only thing more rewarding than coming into the movie with that weight might be not knowing anything at all about the story. The Coens nailed every aspect of the storytelling and made a bulletproof adventure Western that just gets better and better with memory. I briefed through the novel after coming back from the theater and it's uncanny how little they deviated from it to make this perfect script. It's unusual in the filmography of the brothers because it lacks that oddball irony and it's an earnest film, as close to the greatness of classic Hollywood as they come. Good times.

I was disappointed with Agora, but I think it's only because it came to me so highly recommended. It's not a bad film, but I just have a special intolerance for historical movies when they make everything too contemporary. As you can guess, not a fan of The Tudors or stuff like that. But other than that, it has a powerful message and it's a compelling, intelligent story. I just didn't appreciate, I dunno, people talking about coffins some 500 hundred years before they were invented. On second thought, I recommend the film. I think Amenábar is a cool filmmaker even if sometimes he trips into his own ambition.

[B-side]

I kind of get Crimson Tide, but Enemy of the State? Really?

I just love Scott's tech-aesthetic. It's the beginning traces of his 2000s hyper-aesthetic. It's not spectacular, but it's relentlessly riveting and the editing and wild photography maintain interest. Seems fitting that nature ended up being the foil so often for the invasive technology, with Zavitz capturing the murder on tape accidentally while filming bird migrating patterns, and a tree of all things ruining the signal while the NSA was trying to listen in on Robert and Rachel's conversation. I like that Scott has a way of complicating a seemingly simple moral trajectory. I loved the Google Earth-esque zoom-ins, too.

[elixir]

So, I just saw Jeanne Dielman. I really wanted to like it. Unfortunately, I just couldn't get into it. I felt so close a number of times, but I felt all 3.5 hours of that thing. I do have respect for it, grudgingly, but I don't think I can bring myself to say I liked it, and I don't ever really want to see it again. Reflecting on it, I can say it did a number of things admirably and inventively, but it just never gelled for me. Hey! But at least I stayed! Many people in my class walked out! I promise I'm not a philistine!!!!!

[Ivan Drago]

Hey Grouchy, what do you think of the original True Grit?

[Milky Joe]

I just watched it again this evening. Yeah, I'm totally in love with the movie. And, no, I don't think it feels long at all. It's a very brisk 219 minutes.

I saw it on the big screen back in the '80s as part of the Seattle Film Festival. Yes, that's the way to go if you get the chance.

Mmm, I loved this film. The pacing of the individual scenes makes it easier to digest the length, I feel like. My conclusion, with Kristofferson, is that this film was assassinated.

[B-side]

Spy Game was a step down from the previous two Scotts, but still worthwhile. The smash cuts and jarring time stamp insertions are almost Brechtian in nature. Scott doesn't seem as interested in getting you to identify with or relate to anyone, but merely absorb the necessary impact of the narrative. It certainly feels like his most nostalgic work. As he seems to do with some frequency, one of the central push and pulls is between the competing ideologies of two different generations. Perhaps to the film's detriment, Scott doesn't try very hard to muddy the moral waters and instead ends up appearing to advocate without much hesitation Nathan's backroom dealings. It isn't among his most impressive on a technical front, unfortunately, though the aforementioned smash cuts and jarring time stamp insertions are refreshingly anarchic. The acting is also toned down quite a bit as is befitting the calm, collected and deceptive material. On the surface, themes of forced cold governmental relationships aren't particularly interesting for me, but the film never settles into an ill-advised groove of hammering that aspect home like is commonplace when dealing with this topic. It's still blunt in Tony Scott's special kind of way, but not irritatingly so.

[Boner M]

Distractingly obnoxious ≠ Brechtian

[B-side]

Distractingly obnoxious ≠ Brechtian

This post is Brechtian.

[Dukefrukem]

Why did it take me so long to see Insomnia?

[balmakboor]

Mmm, I loved this film. The pacing of the individual scenes makes it easier to digest the length, I feel like. My conclusion, with Kristofferson, is that this film was assassinated.

Nice. If you're on Facebook, you should post this on their wall. Several of us have been lobbying for it to join the CC. Now is also a good time to watch the Final Cut documentary on youtube.

[dmk]

'Side, your academic appraisal of Tony Scott isn’t funny anymore. Try genuine B-movie formalists like a John Carpenter or a DePalma instead, please.

[Dukefrukem]

JMlmEFIxdb4

[Pip]

Why did it take me so long to see Insomnia?

Hey I just saw this the other night too! I'm not a big Nolan fan but I thought it was one of his better films. Pacino and Williams were great. It's funny how Williams went through that creeper phase in the early 00's.

[Dukefrukem]

Hey I just saw this the other night too! I'm not a big Nolan fan but I thought it was one of his better films. Pacino and Williams were great. It's funny how Williams went through that creeper phase in the early 00's.

Pacino was pretty great (as always). It was hard for me to get into Williams' role. I think ti's because he's type cast all these years. His best performance ever was in Good Will Hunting. That worked. But you're right, Williams did another movie, One Hour Photo? where he played a psycho.

[Mysterious Dude]

But you're right, Williams did another movie, One Hour Photo? where he played a psycho.
Don't forget Death to Smoochy!

[Derek]

'Side, your academic appraisal of Tony Scott isn’t funny anymore. Try genuine B-movie formalists like a John Carpenter or a DePalma instead, please.

I'm convinced it started out as a cinephile in-joke to trick noobs into taking him seriously and it's now snowballed into something much larger and more terrifying.


Pacino was pretty great (as always). It was hard for me to get into Williams' role. I think ti's because he's type cast all these years. His best performance ever was in Good Will Hunting. That worked. But you're right, Williams did another movie, One Hour Photo? where he played a psycho.

Ugh, I hate Insomnia. My friend nailed Pacino's performance when he said he's the only actor that can overact sleepiness.

[Barty]

Williams is absolutely brilliant in Insomnia.

[Spun Lepton]

I'll run the risk of sounding like an arrogant hipster when I mention that I enjoyed the original Norwegian Insomnia to the American remake. Much darker tone, bleaker ending. Loved it.

[Dukefrukem]

behind the scenes at Pixar (http://kottke.org/11/02/behind-the-scenes-at-pixar)

[Dukefrukem]

Ugh, I hate Insomnia. My friend nailed Pacino's performance when he said he's the only actor that can overact sleepiness.

As a depressed cop who just shot his partner... it works. :lol:

[Spaceman Spiff]

Has anyone seen The Organizer with Mastroianni? There's a free screening of it on friday.

[Qrazy]

Has anyone seen The Organizer with Mastroianni? There's a free screening of it on friday.

No, but it's Monicelli so it's probably awesome.

[Pip]

Pacino was pretty great (as always). It was hard for me to get into Williams' role. I think ti's because he's type cast all these years. His best performance ever was in Good Will Hunting. That worked. But you're right, Williams did another movie, One Hour Photo? where he played a psycho.

Oh man he was even creepier in that one!

[number8]

Shit, Hulu just kicked Netflix's ass.

[Ezee E]

All of the Criterion titles? Most are already streaming anyway.

[Dukefrukem]

Shit, Hulu just kicked Netflix's ass.

Meh. Is that really worth $7.99 a month though? If say, that's all i wanted out of Hulu?

[Spun Lepton]

Anybody know if a subscription to PSN Plus is still required for streaming Hulu?

[Dukefrukem]

Anybody know if a subscription to PSN Plus is still required for streaming Hulu?

It's not.

edit: for a limited time it was... im not sure if that time has ended or not actually. but sony came out and said at some point it will be available to all.

edit 2: confirm you don't (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/11/10/get-hulu-plus-on-your-ps3-today/)

[Kurosawa Fan]

Nope. I don't have PSN Plus and I stream Hulu on the PS3. Well, Hulu Plus that is.

[Spun Lepton]

:pritch:

Hulu subscription, here I come!!

[Milky Joe]

Nice. If you're on Facebook, you should post this on their wall. Several of us have been lobbying for it to join the CC. Now is also a good time to watch the Final Cut documentary on youtube.

Do you mean on Criterion's wall? Or some other wall? Will definitely watch that doc. The film is fascinating for all sorts of reasons. There's no reason it shouldn't be in the CC. Maybe they could put Robin Wood's essay with it?

[number8]

All of the Criterion titles? Most are already streaming anyway.

Not (yet) all, but it's a shitload more than Instant Watch's.

First one I noticed was Hausu and the entire Zatoichi collection. I'm researching what else they have that are not on IW.

[D_Davis]

Not (yet) all, but it's a shitload more than Instant Watch's.

Right now it's only 8 more. 150 versus 142.

[baby doll]

Why did it take me so long to see Insomnia?Definitely one of Stellan Skarsgard's best performances. Way better than Mamma Mia.

[number8]

Right now it's only 8 more. 150 versus 142.

This can't be right.

Is the 142 counting the discs-only?

[Raiders]

This can't be right.

It is because the roll-out is just starting. Hulu is promising 800 titles in the near future once the roll-out is complete.

[number8]

No, but I mean just the ones that are on now, I've already found more than 8 that's not on IW.

6 Zatoichi movies, Madadayo, Hausu, Jigoku, George Washington, The Kid, La Pointe Courte... That's 12 right there.

[D_Davis]

No, but I mean just the ones that are on now, I've already found more than 8 that's not on IW.

6 Zatoichi movies, Madadayo, Hausu, Jigoku, George Washington, The Kid, La Pointe Courte... That's 12 right there.


I was just going by what they claimed on the Hulu website - 150, and what is on the list for Netflix right now - 142. Could be that they've already added more to Hulu.

[D_Davis]

Anyhow, I don't really care about Criterion because of their almost complete lack of Hong Kong and Martial Arts cinema. "Most important movies in the world" my ass! They can claim that when they get some King Hu, Chang Cheh, and Lau Kar Leung. In my opinion, they've done a lot to keep Hong Kong martial arts cinema ghettoized, especially since they've embraced Japanese martial arts cinema with open arms.

[megladon8]

I'm sure there's a reason for it, D, other than simply "ignoring" that area of world cinema.

Could be (as sad as it is) due to the fact that the Weisntein's have already bought the rights to a lot of the films for their Dragon Dynasty label.

[number8]

That's not the reason.

Criterions tend to remaster the movies they release. That's why they're Criterion.

The Hong Kong film industry, especially back in the 70's, were HORRIBLE with preservation. They basically chuck the shit out once the films have hit theaters. Because of this, Criterion can't put out "Criterion quality" releases of those movies because there ain't nothing to work from. What's to separate their release from the bargain bin DVD companies?

They don't ignore 90's Hong Kong cinema.

[D_Davis]

They don't ignore 90's Hong Kong cinema.

What do they have besides Wong Kar Wai and John Woo?

I still can't think of a single Hong Kong martial arts title on the CC.

For some reason the world's "serious" film community has embraced Japan's martial arts cinema, but not Hong Kong's. It's just weird. Something that I used to spend a lot of time writing and caring about.

To this day there still isn't a legit DVD of Tsui Hark's The Blade or Shanghai Blues, and A Touch of Zen has never been remastered - any of these films would be great for Criterion.

[megladon8]

I also still find it odd when rabid HK film fans seem to ignore the fact that so much of the HK film industry is based on piracy and copyright infringement.

They'll be up in arms about the way HK films are treated in western countries, yet ignore how much of the HK industry has flat-out stolen from western films.

It's not that I'm excusing the western treatment of these films - I agree that it's disrespectful (or in some cases flat out insulting - but it's not like the HK film industry is the epitome of honorable business and high quality.


It reminds me of those girls in high school who were obsessed with manga, anime and anything to do with Japanese culture. To them, EVERYTHING was better in Japan. Any product or industry you attempted to discuss, it would turn into a "well in Japan they do it like this, and it's so much better".

[D_Davis]

The Hong Kong film industry, especially back in the 70's, were HORRIBLE with preservation. They basically chuck the shit out once the films have hit theaters. Because of this, Criterion can't put out "Criterion quality" releases of those movies because there ain't nothing to work from. What's to separate their release from the bargain bin DVD companies?


That's true up through the '90s; the country hasn't done much to combat the perception of their cinema being throw away. However, IVL/Celestial proved everyone wrong with their remasters of the Shaw Brothers films. Those original negatives were said to be beyond repair, and they've made them look as good as anything being released today. I argue that they've made them look too good!

[megladon8]

To this day there still isn't a legit DVD of Tsui Hark's The Blade or Shanghai Blues, and A Touch of Zen has never been remastered - any of these films would be great for Criterion.


Like 8 said, it may be a case of there just not being the materials available to remaster something like A Touch of Zen and have it meet Criterion's standards.

[D_Davis]

I also still find it odd when rabid HK film fans seem to ignore the fact that so much of the HK film industry is based on piracy and copyright infringement.


Are you talking about the Triads being involved in film production and piracy? Not quite sure I understand you.

[baby doll]

Anyhow, I don't really care about Criterion because of their almost complete lack of Hong Kong and Martial Arts cinema. [...] In my opinion, they've done a lot to keep Hong Kong martial arts cinema ghettoized, especially since they've embraced Japanese martial arts cinema with open arms.Regarding the first part of your post, it seems churlish to dismiss all the good work that they have done because of their short-comings in other areas. It's just one company; they can't do everything.

As for the latter part, Criterion tends to follow the trends regarding what is and isn't marginal. Edward Yang's Yi Yi gets a two-disc special edition precisely because it already feels canonical, while his earlier Taipei Story (clearly one of the most important movies made anywhere in the 1980s) has never been released on DVD anywhere as far as I'm aware.

[D_Davis]

Like 8 said, it may be a case of there just not being the materials available to remaster something like A Touch of Zen and have it meet Criterion's standards.

There is with The Blade. I have a bootleg that was remastered by fans. It looks really nice. And I know there is a very decent print of A Touch of Zen floating around. The original Tai Seng DVD isn't bad, just not remastered, and not anamorphic.

I just think it's an example of a kind of cinema being ghettoized and deemed "unimportant." I think its an extension of the kind of Cultural Imperialism Hong Kong felt while under British control, and I think it shows in how Asian actors are treated in Hollywood.

But who knows? I'm just thankful for IVL/Celestial - they're my "Criterion." :)

[D_Davis]

Regarding the first part of your post, it seems churlish to dismiss all the good work that they have done because of their short-comings in other areas. It's just one company; they can't do everything.


Meh. It's all good.

*edit*

But you're right. I'm not usually one to throw the baby out with the bath water and I shouldn't here. It's just something that always comes to mind when I ever hear Criterion mentioned.

[D_Davis]

This is a topic that fans of Hong Kong martial arts cinema often discuss, especially in terms of Cultural Imperialism. For instance, often times a European film will be released in other countries and the idea to dub it with funny voices, creating a nonsensical plot would never cross anyone's mind. However, this very idea is viewed as perfectly OK for Hong Kong martial arts cinema. There is a long history of viewing this kind of cinema as silly, unimportant, and not worthy of serious consideration. That people today still refer to it as "chop sockey" cinema proves my point. There is some deep rooted seeds of cultural imperialism surrounding this genre. And so fighting against these ideas is something that I think it important.

And I think having a company like Criterion releasing a few of these films would go a long way to help legitimize these kinds of films in the eyes of people who dismiss them.

[baby doll]

This is a topic that fans of Hong Kong martial arts cinema often discuss, especially in terms of Cultural Imperialism. For instance, often times a European film will be released in other countries and the idea to dub it with funny voices, creating a nonsensical plot would never cross anyone's mind. However, this very idea is viewed as perfectly OK for Hong Kong martial arts cinema.I don't know if that's cultural imperialism necessarily. When European movies are shown in North America, they tend to be arty subtitled fare, whereas the martial arts movies that were shown in the US back in the day were often cheaply dubbed, so it makes more sense to re-dub a kung-fu movie than Ingmar Bergman.


There is a long history of viewing this kind of cinema as silly, unimportant, and not worthy of serious consideration. That people today still refer to it as "chop sockey" cinema proves my point. There is some deep rooted seeds of cultural imperialism surrounding this genre. And so fighting against these ideas is something that I think it important.

And I think having a company like Criterion releasing a few of these films would go a long way to help legitimize these kinds of films in the eyes of people who dismiss them.David Bordwell has written extensively about Hong Kong cinema generally. That said, there's a fundamental difference between Hong Kong and Europe on a broad industrial level: the absence of public funds for auteur-driven art cinema, which is chiefly what Criterion traffics in (hence, they dig Wong Kar-wai, who did an art movie martial arts film with Ashes of Time, but King Hu not so much).

[Watashi]

Criterion has also shunned animation. I've been waiting for my Criterion version of Yellow Submarine.

[baby doll]

Criterion has also shunned animation. I've been waiting for my Criterion version of Yellow Submarine.Yeah, I don't think that movie has the same problems as martial arts cinema, in terms of being marginalized in the American mainstream. Or for that matter, Walt Disney, Pixar, even Hayao Miyazaki. How much more famous could they become, and how much more seriously could they be taken?

[megladon8]

Are you talking about the Triads being involved in film production and piracy? Not quite sure I understand you.


DVD piracy over there is insane. A friend of mine had taken an ESL teaching position in HK and said he actually found it difficult to find anywhere to rent or purchase movies legally. Everything was just burns, rips, and general pirated movies.

But when it comes to the actual film making industry there, ideas are often blatantly stolen from other films (whether they be western or otherwise).

I mean, the symbol for Super Inframan is the Superman symbol, with absolutely no changes made to it.

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/989/220pxsuperinframanposte.jpg


Hk has also produced a few different live-action superhero shows such as Spider-Man and Hulk shows which were never at any time licensed by Marvel. That's copyright infringement.

All I'm saying is that - as I said before - I do agree that the treatment of HK films over here is less than wonderful.

But there have been crimes committed on both sides in this issue.

[D_Davis]

(hence, they dig Wong Kar-wai, who did an art movie martial arts film with Ashes of Time, but King Hu not so much).

Yeah, and Patric Tam and Tsui Hark were doing art-house Martial Arts films in the late '70s during the Hong Kong new wave.

And I'll argue that A Touch of Zen is as artistic as cinema gets. The final real in that film is proof of that.

[baby doll]

Yeah, and Patric Tam and Tsui Hark were doing art-house Martial Arts films in the late '70s during the Hong Kong new wave.

And I'll argue that A Touch of Zen is as artistic as cinema gets. The final real in that film is proof of that.I'm not saying martial arts movies aren't artistic; I'm just saying that if a film doesn't get invited to international festivals like Cannes and Venice, and then distributed in the States, then it's not typically on the radar of a company like Criterion in the way that a Wong Kar-wai film would be.

[Raiders]

King Hu is wonderful indeed. Dragon Inn is definitely the best martial arts film I have seen (though I would be surprised if that number was much more than ten or fifteen).

A Touch of Zen did win the technical award at the 1975 Cannes festival.

[baby doll]

A Touch of Zen did win the technical award at the 1975 Cannes festival.That probably explains why I've heard of it.

[D_Davis]

DVD piracy over there is insane. A friend of mine had taken an ESL teaching position in HK and said he actually found it difficult to find anywhere to rent or purchase movies legally. Everything was just burns, rips, and general pirated movies.

But when it comes to the actual film making industry there, ideas are often blatantly stolen frother films (whether they be western or otherwise).


Well yeah. The bootleg industry in HK is off the charts. It's practically a legitimate industry. Lua Kar Leung and Gordon Liu once remarked that for years the only way they could see their own movies in Chinese was through bootlegs. The Triads make money on both ends - they help fund the movies, and then make money when they sell the bootlegs.

[D_Davis]

And Tsui Hark was a judge at Cannes a couple of years ago!

:)

[baby doll]

And Tsui Hark was a judge at Cannes a couple of years ago!

:)I've heard of him too. I even saw one of his movies (Time and Tide).

[D_Davis]

I wonder what would happen if Bergman or Kubrick, or some other "great filmmakers" films were released dubbed using silly voices, highly edited, with new soundtracks, and plots that differed wildly from the originals? Imagine if this were the only way you for years that you could watch the movies you wanted to see. And then when they finally did come out untouched, people around you still had the idea in their heads that those movies were those funny movies they used to watch as kids.

[balmakboor]

Do you mean on Criterion's wall? Or some other wall? Will definitely watch that doc. The film is fascinating for all sorts of reasons. There's no reason it shouldn't be in the CC. Maybe they could put Robin Wood's essay with it?

Yeah, I meant Criterion's wall.

[megladon8]

I wonder what would happen if Bergman or Kubrick, or some other "great filmmakers" films were released dubbed using silly voices, highly edited, with new soundtracks, and plots that differed wildly from the originals? Imagine if this were the only way you for years that you could watch the movies you wanted to see. And then when they finally did come out untouched, people around you still had the idea in their heads that those movies were those funny movies they used to watch as kids.


I would think it was stupid, neglectful and ignorant, but no more or less than what I feel about the treatment of the HK film industry over here in the west.

I mean, people in HK have a lot of trouble seeing western movies in their proper format, too. They often have silly dubs and/or subs, edits, and sometimes it's not even the right movie (say, the cover and title are for The Bourne Identity, but you put the disc in and it's The Recruit).

Again, there is trouble and illegitimacy on both sides. It's not a cut-and-dry case of America being in the wrong.

[Sycophant]

I'm pretty fortunate in that my chief country of interest re: cinema is Japan, which has seen more Criterion releases (125) than any other country besides the United States (177) and France (126*). They're a business that caters to the demands of the arthouse market (which has retained a healthy interest in Akira Kurosawa, especially--that's about a fifth of Japan's releases right there--plus some of his contemporaries), but I also suspect that some of the people behind the company's decisions favor Japan to some degree. Maybe Japanese companies are easier to work out deals with, too? I, of course, wouldn't know.

Still would love to see Kitano get some Criterion love. The North American DVDs for his greatest mid-nineties masterpieces (Kids Return and Fireworks) are abysmal, and out of print.

On the whole, I'd say that Criterion's lack of support for Hong Kong and Chinese cinema comes at least in part from so few American/Western film scholars championing much of anyone Chinese besides Wong Kar-Wai (I'm kind of surprised that Zhang Yimou hasn't been Criteriocanonized, though). Criterion doesn't usually take blind risks, and releases usually follow rediscovery or significant buzz, not the other way around.

Criterion doesn't usually put out a ton of action cinema in the first place, especially lately. Though they contain swords and climactic fight sequences, I feel like I'd be hard pressed to call Hara-kiri or Sword of the Beast "martial arts" pictures.

Comedies also seem to be largely underrepresented by Criterion (Jacques Tati, Wes Anderson, and...?). But that's roughly in keeping with mainstream critical consensus, too.

One day, though, I hope I can get God of Cookery on a deluxe, Stephen Chow-approved, two disc set with essays and subtitles from leading Mo Lei Tau scholars at Harvard and U.S.C.

Judging by their inclusion of the Zatoichi series with their Hulu Plus releases (they were on regs Hulu for quite a while, actually), I hope the entirety of the HVe collection winds up there with the Eclipse/Criterions. Lot of good Miike and such under that label. Maybe they'll put out some stuff that isn't currently or even historically available on DVD? They are sitting on the rights to tons of good stuff, I'm sure.

*Numbers come from their "by country" filter and probably include some box sets which skew the numbers a little.

[Sycophant]

I mean, people in HK have a lot of trouble seeing western movies in their proper format, too. They often have silly dubs and/or subs, edits, and sometimes it's not even the right movie (say, the cover and title are for The Bourne Identity, but you put the disc in and it's The Recruit).

Prrrrreeeeettttttty sure this is a piracy issue, not a Hong Kong film industry issue. If you go to see The Bourne Identity in a theater or buy it from a legit retailer, you're gonna get Matt Damon, probably speaking English, or at least dubbed competently with English subtitles.

[baby doll]

Criteriocanonized:)

[megladon8]

Prrrrreeeeettttttty sure this is a piracy issue, not a Hong Kong film industry issue. If you go to see The Bourne Identity in a theater or buy it from a legit retailer, you're gonna get Matt Damon, probably speaking English, or at least dubbed competently with English subtitles.


Yeah but the profits from piracy directly fund the HK film industry.

So it's still connected.

[Sycophant]

Can't say that I really see how money-hungry, bootlegging triad-pirates in Hong Kong excuse perceived condescension and maybe racism/cultural imperialism regarding Chinese media and producers/artists on the part of Hollywood suits.

[megladon8]

Can't say that I really see how money-hungry, bootlegging triad-pirates in Hong Kong excuse perceived condescension and maybe racism/cultural imperialism regarding Chinese media and producers/artists on the part of Hollywood suits.


Um...I never claimed it excused it.

I am saying that both sides are wrong.

And I'm sorry, at this point, I cannot agree that racism has anything to do with it.

I can't imagine the people at Criterion saying "we love important films from everywhere in the world...EXCEPT HONG KONG!"

[Sycophant]

Also, who out there champions Indian/South Asian cinema? There's gotta be something good going on over there that Western academics and critics are largely ignoring. "Jai Ho" doesn't count.

[baby doll]

Also, who out there champions Indian/South Asian cinema? There's gotta be something good going on over there that Western academics and critics are largely ignoring. "Jai Ho" doesn't count.Obviously there's Satyajit Ray, and I've read good things about Ritwik Ghatak.

[baby doll]

I can't imagine the people at Criterion saying "we love important films from everywhere in the world...EXCEPT HONG KONG!"Well, obviously they do; it's just that the movies they canonize are already part of the established western canon (Chungking Express, In the Mood for Love).

[megladon8]

Wait...what?

At this point I can't even tell if this is just joking.

No one honestly thinks that Criterion singled out Hong Kong as the only region in the world whose films they are going to ignore, right?

That's...that's...retarded.

[Sycophant]

No, I'm not talking about Criterion specifically. I'm getting at an embedded (institutionalized?) condescension (perhaps racism?) in broader film/arts/cultural circles that is reflected in Criterion's output. It's really reflective of cultural attitudes toward Asian nations, arts, and peoples that have been held by Western European and North American societies for centuries.

The exception of Japan can probably be understood best as a reflection of the increased economic and cultural contact America had with that country that began with the occupation of Japan after the second World War.

[elixir]

Well, since you mentioned economic contact, don't you think it might be a result of that instead of racism/condescension (not that they are mutually exclusive, but more of that perhaps...)? Of course, things are changing now and I imagine this will be reflected in cultural exchange more and more. How about Africa or South America? How are they represented?

ETA: And part of what I'm getting at is, well, are you saying that there is an ACTIVE negative attitude towards them? Or just ignorance perhaps? And how does this related to non-European cultures that aren't Asian (South America, Africa, etc.)? Because it seems like more of a Western-centric thing, rather than an anti-Asian thing.

[baby doll]

Wait...what?

At this point I can't even tell if this is just joking.

No one honestly thinks that Criterion singled out Hong Kong as the only region in the world whose films they are going to ignore, right?

That's...that's...retarded.Sor ry, my phrasing was confusing. I meant they do import movies from all over the world; it's just that they import ones that people in the west have already heard of.

[megladon8]

But again...this is a two-way issue.

Many Asian countries (Japan in particular) are notoriously xenophobic and quite racist towards "outsiders".

This is always kind of ignored, as if it's OK for one side and not for the other.


I'm still saying that both are in the wrong.

[baby doll]

Well, since you mentioned economic contact, don't you think it might be a result of that instead of racism/condescension (not that they are mutually exclusive, but more of that perhaps...)? Of course, things are changing now and I imagine this will be reflected in cultural exchange more and more. How about Africa or South America? How are they represented?They've released a couple of Luis Buñuel's Mexican films, but that's all I can think of. Oh, and Cronos, I think.

[Sycophant]

Um...I never claimed it excused it.

I am saying that both sides are wrong.

Perhaps "excuse" was the wrong word, sorry. But given that you brought Hong Kong piracy up in response to Davis's complaints about the treatment of Hong Kong cinema in the West, it seemed that you were either trying to neutralize or equate the grievances. I see a clear difference between the attitudes and behaviors.

Further, I think a Hong Kong cinema aficionado can lament the treatment of his favorite films by Fox and Miramax without giving equal time to complaining about how some obscure Hong Kong movie stole a Superman logo and how sometimes when you try to buy a cheap pirated DVD of an American film from a triad front, it's secretly another American film with weird disc art and a bad translation. This isn't CNN.

[Derek]

Also, who out there champions Indian/South Asian cinema? There's gotta be something good going on over there that Western academics and critics are largely ignoring. "Jai Ho" doesn't count.

If Qrazy has his way, the prior King of Cambodia will have a box set released. Fingers crossed!

I hear what Davis is saying and I understand his frustration, but taking it out on Criterion is absurd. As you mentioned, they tend not to release many action films or really genre cinema in general unless it is filtered through an arthouse aesthetic (ie, look at the comedies and horror films they've put out) because that's what their focus is. Japanese cinema in general held with higher regard than China's (and higher than most any other country), so it makes sense that they'd focus a good portion of their output on that as the average academic type or film buff would be craving that more than HK cinema, and you know, they actually have to sell a few DVDs here and there to turn a profit. Like it or not, they're providing fair for the arthouse crowd because, at least in the US, that's whose marginalized. You walked into a Blockbuster 10 years ago and it was essentially nothing but genre films. I think one of Criterion's major missions was to provide the type of content that, before they were around, was not readily available to the US consumer.

As for academia not taking HK cinema seriously, I have a hard time believing that there are not a few big scholars out there championing Chang Cheh or Tsui Hark - if you can find academic articles on Jess Franco, you can find them for those guys. :)

[Sycophant]

ETA: And part of what I'm getting at is, well, are you saying that there is an ACTIVE negative attitude towards them? Or just ignorance perhaps? And how does this related to non-European cultures that aren't Asian (South America, Africa, etc.)? Because it seems like more of a Western-centric thing, rather than an anti-Asian thing.
I recognize "racism" is a loaded word and more often brings to mind images of the Klan than it does what I'm talking about. Ethnocentrism (or Western-centrism), arrogance, and ignorance are manifestations of a kind of racism or chauvinism that is, yes, more passive.

Then there's NBC's Outsourced. (Holy fuck.) It's actually still pretty, surprisingly legitimate to be pretty racist w/r/t Asians, specifically Indians and Chinese. That comes in part from present political and economic anxiety.

Japan and other Asian nations have deep problems with xenophobia and racism (painting, of course, in broad strokes--the youth especially in many nations are quite cosmopolitan, and there's nuance and individualism in every society at every level). And the West has lots of problems with racism, too. I can't do that much about Asia, because I'm not Asian ethnically or geographically. I can't do much about attitudes in the West either, but I can talk about it, and think about it, and try to figure out what motivates it, and maybe contribute as some component of a force for reevaluation and progress.

I don't see why calling out the behavior in one nation needs to be counterbalanced with what's going on on the other "side." I don't see why it needs to be about "sides." Even if another country is overwhelmed by xenophobic and racist attitudes, I certainly don't need to make sure we're returning tit-for-tat, or allow that to excuse my or my countrymen's attitudes.

Re: movies again. Walk into a Japanese or Hong Kong cineplex and you'll see more American movies--probably in English--playing than local features.

[megladon8]

If Qrazy has his way, the prior King of Cambodia will have a box set released. Fingers crossed!

I hear what Davis is saying and I understand his frustration, but taking it out on Criterion is absurd. As you mentioned, they tend not to release many action films or really genre cinema in general unless it is filtered through an arthouse aesthetic (ie, look at the comedies and horror films they've put out) because that's what their focus is. Japanese cinema in general held with higher regard than China's (and higher than most any other country), so it makes sense that they'd focus a good portion of their output on that as the average academic type or film buff would be craving that more than HK cinema, and you know, they actually have to sell a few DVDs here and there to turn a profit. Like it or not, they're providing fair for the arthouse crowd because, at least in the US, that's whose marginalized. You walked into a Blockbuster 10 years ago and it was essentially nothing but genre films. I think one of Criterion's major missions was to provide the type of content that, before they were around, was not readily available to the US consumer.

As for academia not taking HK cinema seriously, I have a hard time believing that there are not a few big scholars out there championing Chang Cheh or Tsui Hark - if you can find academic articles on Jess Franco, you can find them for those guys. :)


Once again, Derek is the voice of wisdom.

Agree with everything you've said here.

[Sycophant]

Also, Derek said good things.

[Mysterious Dude]

I have a preference for Japanese films because I find them more... historical? Even if the movie is fiction, like Seven Samurai, there's an authenticity to it. With Hong Kong films, I find the focus is more on the fighting and the martial arts, and while I'm no expert, I suspect the martial arts are of a more modern style, and not historically accurate. China has had some horrific wars, and I doubt that martial arts were a big factor in any of them.

I haven't seen that many, though. I found this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Chinese_history_in_fi lm) recently, and I'm going to try to see at least one movie for every dynasty.

[Sycophant]

I like the idea of watching The Royal Tramp duology as your Qing Dynasty film.

Actually, as I was reading about the Qing, I suddenly started connecting some dots in the plot of The Royal Tramp, with the White Lotus Rebellion, et al. It seems to me that to a great extent, Chinese historical films (comedies or dramas or martial arts showcases alike) are high context products, with a lot of assumptions made about the audience's familiarity with the historical and political figures and events (or characters and stories from the Chinese classics) casually referenced all the damn time. I see more of this in Chinese than Japanese film; Japanese films tend to feature more mythically nebulous and ahistorical settings, or provide enough context that you less frequently are missing out on things in the narrative by not knowing the history (though knowing, for example, that Sword of the Beast takes place in 1857 on the eve of the Meiji Restoration does seem to enrich my understanding of the film's themes and events, I don't think anyone would feel confused by not recognizing that context).

[Sycophant]

That is a good list, though. I may be consulting it soon. Thanks for the link.

[elixir]

Yeah, well, different because it's a book, but I'm reading To Live and it's basically assuming I knew the events of 20th century China. Which I do because I'm reading it for history class, but it doesn't surprise me--they pride themselves on their long history.

[Sycophant]

Yeah, well, different because it's a book, but I'm reading To Live and it's basically assuming I knew the events of 20th century China. Which I do because I'm reading it for history class, but it doesn't surprise me--they pride themselves on their long history.

Understandably. It's a pretty awesome history. I'm hoping to squeeze in some classes specifically dealing with Chinese history for my Asian Studies bachelors, but with my Japanese emphasis, such study may have to be largely extracurricular.

[elixir]

Understandably. It's a pretty awesome history. I'm hoping to squeeze in some classes specifically dealing with Chinese history for my Asian Studies bachelors, but with my Japanese emphasis, such study may have to be largely extracurricular.

The class I'm in is actually Modern East Asia History, and the three countries we are focusing on are China, Japan, and Korea. Up to this point though (since I got back from winter break), we have been mostly focusing on China.

Sorry to get off-topic. Something I was thinking about earlier...movie I most want to see but can't find anywhere: The Mother and The Whore.

[megladon8]

I think I'll watch Once Upon a Time in China tonight.

[Qrazy]

Guys it's really not that complicated. Hong Kong movies are shit so Criterion doesn't release many. The end.

[Sycophant]

Everything about The Mission is awesome. Including its soundtrack.

[megladon8]

Everything about The Mission is awesome. Including its soundtrack.


Agreed.

Also PTU and Exiled.

I'm itching to see Vengeance.

[Sycophant]

Yeah, I've got this friend who loves Johnnie To movies about as much as I do. I've got a backlog I've been slowly building up of his movies on DVD. Need to get with him and watch Vengeance and Swallowtail and maybe something else soon.

Have you seen A Hero Never Dies, meg? It's one of my favorite To films.

[Qrazy]

and maybe something else soon.

Vc7C573WCj8

[Sycophant]

Oh my god, how have I not watched that yet? I need that in my life.

[megladon8]

Yeah, I've got this friend who loves Johnnie To movies about as much as I do. I've got a backlog I've been slowly building up of his movies on DVD. Need to get with him and watch Vengeance and Swallowtail and maybe something else soon.

Have you seen A Hero Never Dies, meg? It's one of my favorite To films.


No, I haven't.

I guess To is the perfect example of an HK filmmaker who's horribly undervalued here in America. I don't think there's anyone who makes crime films as good as him right now.

How did you feel about Vengeance? How does it rank with his other films?

So far I've seen PTU, The Mission, Exiled, Fulltime Killer and Breaking News.

Loved them all except Fulltime Killer.

[D_Davis]

I mean, people in HK have a lot of trouble seeing western movies in their proper format, too. They often have silly dubs and/or subs, edits, and sometimes it's not even the right movie (say, the cover and title are for The Bourne Identity, but you put the disc in and it's The Recruit).
.

Dude - that's a piracy issue. NOTHING to do with the Industry. Most legitimately released Western and other foreign films are subbed in Hong Kong. Completely different than what happens here dating back to the '70s with Black Belt Theater and continuing even today, although not as rampant.

[D_Davis]

Everything about The Mission is awesome. Including its soundtrack.

Yeah - it's great. I love how it totally subverts the John Woo school of action cinema. It's so slow, and calculating.

[Sycophant]

Haven't seen Vengeance yet. The only To film I've really disliked (and I've seen a dozenish) is Running Out of Time. You definitely need to look into the Election duology, since it's about my favorite thing he's done.

[Qrazy]

Dude - that's a piracy issue. NOTHING to do with the Industry. Most legitimately released Western and other foreign films are subbed in Hong Kong. Completely different than what happens here dating back to the '70s with Black Belt Theater and continuing even today, although not as rampant.

Yeah but I tried to buy meth in Hong Kong and it wasn't nearly as good as American meth. What about that?

[Qrazy]

Haven't seen Vengeance yet. The only To film I've really disliked (and I've seen a dozenish) is Running Out of Time. You definitely need to look into the Election duology, since it's about my favorite thing he's done.

Same here. I feel like it doesn't get enough respect around these parts in his oeuvre.

[D_Davis]

No, I haven't.

I guess To is the perfect example of an HK filmmaker who's horribly undervalued here in America. I don't think there's anyone who makes crime films as good as him right now.

How did you feel about Vengeance? How does it rank with his other films?


A Hero Never Dies is great, if a little sappy, even for HK standards. The level of machismo and brotherhood is off the charts.

Vengeance is below mediocre. One of my least favorite To films. It starts off well enough, but soon deflates.

[D_Davis]

Yeah but I tried to buy meth in Hong Kong and it wasn't nearly as good as American meth. What about that?

What about the Moon? You can't explain that.

[D_Davis]

Guys it's really not that complicated. Hong Kong movies are shit so Criterion doesn't release many. The end.

This is true. I just realized it.

[Rowland]

I hope a solid version of The Mission is made available soon. Exiled is still my favorite of his that I've seen, with Mad Detective and Vengeance trailing pretty closely in that order and Breaking News being merely solid. I know those Election films are available on Netflix IW, so I should get around to those.

[Qrazy]

A lot of you guys should check out Throw Down. It's good times.

[baby doll]

Yeah, well, different because it's a book, but I'm reading To Live and it's basically assuming I knew the events of 20th century China. Which I do because I'm reading it for history class, but it doesn't surprise me--they pride themselves on their long history.Awesome book. One of my favorites, and I don't know anything about Chinese history. Chronicle of a Blood Merchant is also pretty good. I'd like to check out some of Yu's earlier books, which are supposedly more avant-garde, but I don't think any of them have been translated into English.

[Derek]

I guess To is the perfect example of an HK filmmaker who's horribly undervalued here in America. I don't think there's anyone who makes crime films as good as him right now.

Really? To gets major props from critics all the time; even peeps like Rosenbaum and Fred Camper love him.

[Russ]

While we're still on the subject of Asian films, the hot name in Japanese cinema right now is Tetsuya Nakashima. His latest, Confessions is one of the best films of 2010. Nakashima deserves every accolade he's been receiving.


F73eXXiMwB4

[megladon8]

Really? To gets major props from critics all the time; even peeps like Rosenbaum and Fred Camper love him.


I guess I'm thinking more about wide audiences.

I feel like his films, if they were shown in more theatres, could get the same kind of fan base as top-tier Scorsese and Mann crime films.

[Mysterious Dude]

That is one hell of a trailer.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This may sound like a silly question, but is it absolutely necessary to see The French Connection before seeing The French Connection II? I downloaded the latter and wanted to see it with my girlfriend tomorrow night (mostly because it's set in Marseille - she's lived there), but she hasn't seen the first (I have though).

[balmakboor]

I thought for a moment that people were talking about The Mission with DeNiro and Irons. I still haven't seen that.

[Stay Puft]

Yeah - it's great. I love how it totally subverts the John Woo school of action cinema. It's so slow, and calculating.

The scene in the mall is one of my favorite action scenes. The ambush in the alley is great, too, especially for the sound design. All those echoes and reverberations.

A friend of mine bought the R1 DVD because I was always going on and on about how The Mission is so awesome. I forgot to warn him about the transfer. I got my copy from KG. He wasn't happy.


A Hero Never Dies is great, if a little sappy, even for HK standards. The level of machismo and brotherhood is off the charts.

Yeah, this one is way over the top, but I like it. It's stylish and a great example of To's visual storytelling sensibilities.

I love the sniper scene.

You've got a shot of the him setting up his position and locating his target through his scope. You've got a shot of what he sees through the scope next, and the target moves through the crosshair but the shot remains static and everybody walks off frame. Then you've got a shot of a fly crawling on the sniper's face. Quite simple, playful, and very effective. An awesome death scene, and communicates a lot of narrative information with minimal effort.

To is awesome, one of the best in HK. I saw Triangle recently and it's pathetic how effortlessly To directs circles around Lam and Hark with his segment. I didn't enjoy the film much overall, but it's just more evidence that To has mad skill.

[number8]

Breaking News is without a question To's worst.

More people need to see All About Ah-Long.

[B-side]

What about the Moon? You can't explain that.

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress. com/2011/02/vwkzl-1.jpeg?w=360&h=360

[number8]

This may sound like a silly question, but is it absolutely necessary to see The French Connection before seeing The French Connection II? I downloaded the latter and wanted to see it with my girlfriend tomorrow night (mostly because it's set in Marseille - she's lived there), but she hasn't seen the first (I have though).

Well, I mean, I guess it's not necessary, but it does spoil the ending of the first movie for her, since it's a direct continuation. But in terms of narrative, you can just explain to her "This guy is NYPD and he's here to chase that dude."

[D_Davis]

Breaking News is without a question To's worst.

More people need to see All About Ah-Long.

I like Breaking News more than Vengeance.

All About Ah-Long is good, as is Throw Down. His two Shaw Brothers films - Mad Monk, and The Barefoot Kid - are pretty good as well.

[number8]

I like Breaking News more than Vengeance.

But I like Anthony Wong more than Richie Ren.

[Qrazy]

Breaking News is without a question To's worst.

More people need to see All About Ah-Long.

Have you seen many of his earlier films? Because I would argue Breaking News is upper middle tier.

[number8]

Have you seen many of his earlier films? Because I would argue Breaking News is upper middle tier.

Quite a few, actually. All About Ah-Long and The Big Heat are pretty good. The Stephen Chow ones, and a few others, many of them before I knew who he was and just from having seen so many Hong Kong movies growing up. I haven't seen his Shaw Bros stuff. You can argue, though, that he was an assembly line director for much of the 80's and early 90's, and then when he started his own company in the mid 90's he was just putting out cheap commercial films as a business model.

I'd argue that he didn't really find his real artistic voice until PTU.

[Qrazy]

Quite a few, actually. All About Ah-Long and The Big Heat are pretty good. The Stephen Chow ones, and a few others, many of them before I knew who he was and just from having seen so many Hong Kong movies growing up. I haven't seen his Shaw Bros stuff. You can argue, though, that he was an assembly line director for much of the 80's and early 90's, and then when he started his own company in the mid 90's he was just putting out cheap commercial films as a business model.

I'd argue that he didn't really find his real artistic voice until PTU.

Yeah I would argue that too. In case I wasn't clear what I meant was a lot of his early films are fairly mediocre and Breaking News is kind of good in comparison. The Heroic Trio might be the worst I've seen from him.

[D_Davis]

Yeah I would argue that too. In case I wasn't clear what I meant was a lot of his early films are fairly mediocre and Breaking News is kind of good in comparison. The Heroic Trio might be the worst I've seen from him.

Yeah, I don't like Heroic Trio at all.

PTU definitely signified a big change in his directorial style, but his earlier films still had his mark. The Mission shows he was a director with a strong and unique voice.


then when he started his own company in the mid 90's he was just putting out cheap commercial films as a business model.

He did both. His goal all along with Milky Way was to do a couple of rom-coms and crowd-pleasing dramas a year so that he could fund his more personal efforts. Pretty smart move on his part.

I think Running on Karma is his most interesting film. While it is highly flawed, it is so incredibly unique and just bizarre. I've seen it a few times, and I'm still not sure if I really get it, but I love watching it.

[DavidSeven]

Whip It (Barrymore). I enjoyed this movie. The 85% approval on RT is a little surprising, but this is actually a well-made "flick" (give or take a few gaps in the screenplay) and one of the better recent entries in the teen girl genre. Certainly better than Juno, which I didn't hate. Those adverse to Ellen Page led dramedies with indie/retro pop soundtracks should probably avoid, but the film is at least refreshingly devoid of the pop culture irony trademarked in Cody's Juno script.

[Boner M]

I'm interviewing Clotilde Hesme in a few weeks, the French actress from Regular Lovers and who out-sexied Ludivine Sagnier in Love Songs. Holy moley!

[dreamdead]

Was surprised by how succinct and powerful the editing to The French Connection classic scenes (re: car chase) was--it was dynamic and kept a scene that I've always seen clips of gripping and tense throughout. I feel as though the film doesn't fully explore Hackman's racist and chauvinist tendencies, but the bitterness of the ending remains solid, and the film has enough classic moments that I let it take a pass. Really solid, and a pinnacle of the genre.

[Pip]

The Secret in Their Eyes was... really emotionally exhausting, frustrating and satisfying all at the same time. If that makes sense. The filmmaking was blah but for once I didn't mind given how engrossing the performances were.

[MadMan]

Was surprised by how succinct and powerful the editing to The French Connection classic scenes (re: car chase) was--it was dynamic and kept a scene that I've always seen clips of gripping and tense throughout. I feel as though the film doesn't fully explore Hackman's racist and chauvinist tendencies, but the bitterness of the ending remains solid, and the film has enough classic moments that I let it take a pass. Really solid, and a pinnacle of the genre.Some days I feel this is the best cop movie I've ever seen. Other days I think its Dirty Harry. My favorite moment in The French Connection is the famous scene where Popeye waves to the main bad guy. Hilarious.

[D_Davis]

The best thing about the train chase in The French Connection is how organic and natural it is. It just happens; it's not a set piece. The narrative doesn't stop for the action, it flows into the chase. It's quite brilliant.

[Boner M]

Weekend:

Rabbit Hole, How I Ended This Summer and Wagner & Me at the moobeez
Cold Sweat (starring Charles Bronson... and Liv Ullman?!?!)
Come on Children (no pedo)
The Docks of New York (clips I've seen have me ensured this'll be my favorite JvS)
rest of the Brakhage vol. 1 (highlights so far, since I didn't want my sig swamped: DesistFilm, Act of Seeing..., Window Water.... Everything's great so far, except for The Stars are Beautiful, which was abysmal)

[B-side]

Window Water....

One of my all-time favorites.

[baby doll]

I'm interviewing Clotilde Hesme in a few weeks, the French actress from Regular Lovers and who out-sexied Ludivine Sagnier in Love Songs. Holy moley!She's out of your league, dude.

[Skitch]

After a couple months of using the 1-5 scale, I still hate it. I'm going back to a 10 scale where I'm comfortable. Let the editing commence...

[balmakboor]

Everything's great so far, except for The Stars are Beautiful, which was abysmal)

I don't think I'd say abysmal so much as experiment that failed.

[lovejuice]

For the first time, I watch The Phantom of Liberty, and it's really good. In fact, this is my first Bunuel's aside from Un chien Andalou. Very impressed.

[baby doll]

For the first time, I watch The Phantom of Liberty, and it's really good. In fact, this is my first Bunuel's aside from Un chien Andalou. Very impressed.You should check out Viridiana, Le Charme discret de la bourgeoisie, and Cet obscur objet du désir. Buñuel + Fernando Rey = pure awesomeness. (Of his non-Rey works, I'm partial to NazarÃ*n, The Young One, The Exterminating Angel, and Belle de jour.)

[Qrazy]

You should check out Viridiana, Le Charme discret de la bourgeoisie, and Cet obscur objet du désir. Buñuel + Fernando Rey = pure awesomeness. (Of his non-Rey works, I'm partial to NazarÃ*n, The Young One, The Exterminating Angel, and Belle de jour.)

Good list. I concur.