28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Watashi]

There has to be a list of the worst of the worst when it comes to musicals.

I think the best musical where the music actually advances the plot is The Nightmare Before Christmas. The music is the plot.

[Qrazy]

This is something I find particularly irritating.

Very rarely do I actually like the songs being sung in musicals.

I find My Fair Lady a painful, atrocious movie due to this (and due to the fact that it's vapid and shallow). It's a film my parents, grandparents and sister love, and when it comes up on family movie night, I leave.

You know which musical is extremely vapid and shallow? Oklahoma. Man I saw a production of that in a theater a couple years ago, holy god, the entire thing builds up to a disgusting kangaroo court and everyone leaves happy after a horrible miscarriage of justice. Jesus murphy. Poor Jud indeed.

[Raiders]

Rodgers and Hammerstein suck in general.

[Mara]

The plot to Singin' in the Rain is ridiculous. It skates by on charm and some solid dancing and comedic bits. It also annoys me that there's no "g" in the title. Just... just put the "g" in. Please.

But the extended dream sequence dance bit is too much for me. Cyd Charisse has great legs, and Gene Kelly is a great dancer, but it halts the entire film just to show off.

I like musicals-- I do-- but they often focus on either the plot or the music. Either it's an interesting and well-thought-out plot with forgettable songs thrown in, or else the music is complex and interesting, but the plot is just threads holding the musical pieces together. It's rare to find a film that really balances both.

[Mara]

You know which musical is extremely vapid and shallow? Oklahoma. Man I saw a production of that in a theater a couple years ago, holy god, the entire thing builds up to a disgusting kangaroo court and everyone leaves happy after a horrible miscarriage of justice. Jesus murphy. Poor Jud indeed.

Yes. Some good songs, but the plot is sort of horrific.

[Mara]

Rodgers and Hammerstein suck in general.

Very dated, as well. Quite a bit of racism/misogyny in both songs and plot. But they did write some catchy, singable tunes.

[transmogrifier]

It's rare to find a film that really balances both.


http://www.nt2099.com/J-ENT/blu-ray/grease-c.jpg

[number8]

Also, a lot of musicals just follow the formula of action films with the numbers replacing set pieces. Watching one guy chasing another guy for 15 minutes isn't exactly the most efficient way to further the plot.

Ding ding ding.

Since when is it a bad thing to have awesome sequences in movies?

[endingcredits]

I think Dean Stockwell singing Candy Colored Clown is the closest thing to a musical I like.

[B-side]

I think Dean Stockwell singing Candy Colored Clown is the closest thing to a musical I like.

That's Roy Orbison's "In Dreams."

[endingcredits]

That's Roy Orbison's "In Dreams."

Really?! I thought that was his original work.

[B-side]

Really?! I thought that was his original work.

We may be speaking about different things. Are you referring to him lip-syncing in Blue Velvet?

[endingcredits]

We may be speaking about different things. Are you referring to him lip-syncing in Blue Velvet?

Sarcasm just isn't the same on the internets.

[B-side]

Sarcasm just isn't the same on the internets.

I had a feeling.:P

Regardless, you called the song by the wrong name, so I reserve the right to chide you.

[balmakboor]

I love both Singin' in the Rain and Grease.

But I can't really think about either at the moment. I finally watched my Bluray of The Godfather and fuck that movie is brilliant. I saw it for the first time about 30 years ago and no movie has played a bigger role in my love of cinema. I've seen it probably 20 times over the years. Big screen. Little screen. Beta. VHS. DVD. And now BR. And watching it tonight was such a powerful experience that it was like seeing it for the first time. Plus the Hi-def experience drew my attention to a myriad of details in the art direction that I hadn't noticed before. Part II will be in my player soon (I own the boxset) and I expect to be similarly blown away all over again. I actually prefer it to part I.

[D_Davis]

Iron Man was pretty good. Jeff Bridges looks totally bad ass with a bald head and a beard. That's a damn good look. ;)

It's a little too long, and I lost interest after Iron Man's attack on the terrorist dudes, but over all I liked it quite a bit. There are some really nice shots, and Downey Jr. is good as always.

Definitely liked it better than the completely mediocre reboot of The Hulk - man, what a giant step backwards that thing was. I also enjoyed it more than The Dark Knight.

[balmakboor]

I like musicals-- I do-- but they often focus on either the plot or the music. Either it's an interesting and well-thought-out plot with forgettable songs thrown in, or else the music is complex and interesting, but the plot is just threads holding the musical pieces together. It's rare to find a film that really balances both.

I know it has many detractors around here and my wife disregards it because she doesn't like Judy Garland's hairstyle, but I've always loved Meet Me in St. Louis. And I think it has both a great story and great songs. So does The Wizard of Oz. Yeah, Garland rocked.

[Watashi]

I think Hereafter needs to be seen just to see how big of a trainwreck Eastwood has made.

I think the FFC review hits it on the head on how Eastwood makes a film literally about nothing. There are characters and story strands that are introduced and then forgets about them five minutes later.

[MadMan]

I hate Grease. Not as much as I hate The Sound of Music, but its close. Hey lets do a 50s movie that's annoying, cloy, cheese, and cliche! Hurray!

And don't get me started on The Sound of Music. That's hours of my life that I still want back. I actually rooted for the Nazis in that one.

[StanleyK]

Also, a lot of musicals just follow the formula of action films with the numbers replacing set pieces. Watching one guy chasing another guy for 15 minutes isn't exactly the most efficient way to further the plot.

Exactly; action is the closest genre to musical, in that both have a tendency to include showy set-pieces at the expense of pacing.


Since when is it a bad thing to have awesome sequences in movies?

If a sequence could easily be cut out of a movie or shortened considerably, it ceases to be awesome.

[Dukefrukem]

speaking of Musicals... I saw Chicago on Broadway last night.

Not bad... not bad at all.

[Skitch]

I loathe musicals, but I grew up in a house with women who watched them over and over. My sister would watch Grease five times a day, back to back, and stand in front of the tv doing the dances and singing.

I fucking hate Grease with every fiber of my being, but that's her fault. Not the film's.

[Skitch]

Today:

Robinson Crusoe On Mars
Revange
(Finishing up) Red Riding Trilogy

[[ETM]]

I loathe musicals, but I grew up in a house with women who watched them over and over. My sister would watch Grease five times a day, back to back, and stand in front of the tv doing the dances and singing.

I fucking hate Grease with every fiber of my being, but that's her fault. Not the film's.

My dad has hated Travolta ever since Saturday Night Fever for similar reasons. There was such a craze surrounding him at the time that he just got sick of him forever. I remember when Look Who's Talking came out, he was all like "Wait... isn't that the guy from SNF and Grease?! I hate him":P

[Dukefrukem]

Question: Why do some movies "expire" for instant viewing on Netflix?

[Sven]

People who like bad musicals are my second least favorite.

So funny when you say this.

[number8]

Question: Why do some movies "expire" for instant viewing on Netflix?

Their license expired.

[Spinal]

If a sequence could easily be cut out of a movie or shortened considerably, it ceases to be awesome.

There's more to making movies than taking the swiftest path from point A to point B. No wonder you don't like Buster Keaton.

[Russ]

If a sequence could easily be cut out of a movie or shortened considerably, it ceases to be awesome.
Try telling that to Isabelle Adjani and her three minute breakdown in the subway, in Zulawski's Possession. Without a doubt, one of the highlights of that film.

Or how about Roddy Piper and Keith David's smackdown in Carpenter's They Live?

Dunno about you, but these are cinematic reasons for getting up in the morning and facing a new day. [/half-joking]

[Dukefrukem]

One of the best benders one which one can be.

Someone's Watching Me was great... It feels like Carpenter is taking Rear Window a step further. The lead woman was fantastic.

[Spinal]

I'm trying to imagine Jodorowsky sitting down with an editor and being told, ok, we're only going to keep the stuff that furthers the plot.

[StanleyK]

I'm not talking about just plot, I mean scenes that are also unrelated to the thematic content of the film. I'm sure you can think of some examples. In any case, 'arthouse' films (hate that term, but I can't think of anything else) are clearly less preoccupied with narrative than mainstream ones.

Also, I really like Buster Keaton, I just think The General is horrendously overrated, and that has nothing to do with its action.

[Qrazy]

Hrm yes I'd have to agree that The General is not his best work.

[Spinal]

Not his best work, but still one of the best films of all time.

[Qrazy]

Not his best work, but still one of the best films of all time.

Nah, but still a pretty good film. Probably a solid B-.

[endingcredits]

Thoughts on the film?
On A Silver Globe was two and a half hours of non-stop raging hysteria. Lots of insane running around screaming for the win. Right. Awesome. It was definitely the most explosive and frenzied Zulawski film I've seen. The camera work is killer on this one: odd angles, fast cuts, whirling around, etc. The fragmentation due to the unfinished nature was certainly noticeable but I had no idea what the hell was happening anyway.

[Melville]

Probably a solid B-.:lol:


On A Silver Globe was two and a half hours of non-stop raging hysteria. Lots of insane running around screaming for the win. Right. Awesome. It was definitely the most explosive and frenzied Zulawski film I've seen. The camera work is killer on this one: odd angles, fast cuts, whirling around, etc. The fragmentation due to the unfinished nature was certainly noticeable but I had no idea what the hell was happening anyway.This sounds like my new favorite movie.

[Henry Gale]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lary138KfI1qzu8kvo1_128 0.png?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YY Q4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1288044269&Signature=RyNa5Kls2Xp5UcieAkdU RMi6kRw%3D

Runaway is one of the most delightfully strange and audacious things to come from mainstream music in a long time. It may be a bit too ambitious or self-indulgent to even work when taken out of the context of West's career, but the images and the music help to ground and contextualize enough of the necessary emotions to what they're trying to serve the throughline of the film as well as being moving on their own.

The images are consistently awe-inspiring and seem to go way beyond the sort of perfectionistic care of more expensive or professional music video-type endeavours ever do. It being a long-form music video that was simulataneously shown on MTV, VH1 and BET is probably enough of an accomplishment on its own these days, but for it to be as weird as it is while still coming from a pop presence as big as him, it's kind of amazing.

In long-winded answers about what inspired it, Kanye says that most of all, Runaway was him trying to make a film from his inner 5-year-old, one that loved the weird sensibilities of things by Jim Henson and George Lucas. But at the same time, it was him trying to bend that into a film like Purple Rain, Pink Floyd's The Wall or Michael Jackson's Thriller, if done with the elegance of someone like Kubrick or Fellini. Add to that a lot of high fashion-type designs and graphic novel framing, all put into a big hypothetical blender, set to his new album, and you have this. It's not on the same level as the best examples of any of those influences, but if those are the sort of thoughts and inspirations that got him to approach ideas like this, then he can cite whatever things he wants as influences.

The little dialogue in it, no matter how it helps to better express the thematic ideas in it, don't work well at all. As good as West has been in more brief, more comedic acting in recent years (his "We Were Once A Fairytale" by Spike Jonze, his sketch work on things like SNL), this first time he's put the task to deliver dramatic lines himself makes those moments come off very stilted and dull. In the post-movie Q&A, he was basically laughing himself off saying that it's like when Tarantino and Spike Lee show up in their films, he can't be mad because they still made the rest of it. "I'm no Daniel Day-Lewis ... but I created the whole thing so it doesn't really matter [as long as] you get the point." Still, I wish it was even less than just those half dozen lines.

I posted some more stills in the Random Screenshot Thread (http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=295401&postcount=91), and it can be seen pretty much anywhere online, but most clearly on his site (http://kanyewest.com/) and on YouTube in 720p. If you're at all a fan of his and want to experience a good sampling of the new album with gorgeous images undeniably from Kanye himself; then it's as good as if not better than any other sort of music video you can hope for these days. It's not perfect, but then again, the ideas in it also argue why that may not be a very bad thing at all.

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz284/henrygale42/toast/vlcsnap-448316.png

[Chac Mool]

Caught two interesting movies this morning.

"The Bank Job", by underrated pro Roger Donaldson, was a pleasure from start to finish, thanks to an interesting premise, amusingly written and well-acted characters, and a tactile, well-realized sense of '70s Britain. A couple of things felt off -- the resolution of Terry's marital problems was rather convenient, and the film switched from laughs to deaths a little too easily -- but I hate to nitpick entertainment this satisfying.

"Election", by Johnnie To, is a stranger beast. It's certainly ambitious, bringing an almost documentary realism to a complex tale of tradition-meets-ambition set within the Hong Kong triads. The pace is sustained, the twists often unexpected, the performances dynamic and lived-in -- and the ending, which erases the edge between hero and villain, is bracing and impressive. And yet something is missing. Is the film overstuffed, with a few too many faces in its rogues' gallery of characters? Is the plot a little to scattershot? Or is it simply that it's a very good movie that doesn't quite contain the spark that animates the truly great ones?

[Qrazy]

Caught two interesting movies this morning.

"The Bank Heist", by underrated pro Roger Donaldson, was a pleasure from start to finish, thanks to an interesting premise, amusingly written and well-acted characters, and a tactile, well-realized sense of '70s Britain. A couple of things felt off -- the resolution of Terry's marital problems was rather convenient, and the film switched from laughs to deaths a little too easily -- but I hate to nitpick entertainment this satisfying.

"Election", by Johnnie To, is a stranger beast. It's certainly ambitious, bringing an almost documentary realism to a complex tale of tradition-meets-ambition set within the Hong Kong triads. The pace is sustained, the twists often unexpected, the performances dynamic and lived-in -- and the ending, which erases the edge between hero and villain, is bracing and impressive. And yet something is missing. Is the film overstuffed, with a few too many faces in its rogues' gallery of characters? Is the plot a little to scattershot? Or is it simply that it's a very good movie that doesn't quite contain the spark that animates the truly great ones?

This. To a certain extent it substitute style for character nuance and plot engagement. I think it's a very good film and I love To's style but yeah, I think that's what keeps it from being an amazing film.

[soitgoes...]

This. To a certain extent it substitute style for character nuance and plot engagement. I think it's a very good film and I love To's style but yeah, I think that's what keeps it from being an amazing film.This is what he achieved two films later.

[Qrazy]

This is what he achieved two films later.

Ehh... Election 2 > Election > Exiled

[Winston*]

'The Bank Job', Chac Mool. I liked the movie too.

[soitgoes...]

Ehh... Election 2 > Election > Exiled
Your grasp of greater than and lesser than symbols seems to be all mucked up.

[soitgoes...]

But seriously, is there a Korean filmmaker today that is even in the same class as Lee?

::Needs to see more films by Hong.::

[transmogrifier]

But seriously, is there a Korean filmmaker today that is even in the same class as Lee?

::Needs to see more films by Hong.::

Park.
Kim.
Bong.

Hong, not so much.

[transmogrifier]

'The Bank Job', Chac Mool. I liked the movie too.

Very underrated.

[soitgoes...]

Park.
Kim.
Bong.

Hong, not so much.
Kim is a 3-star director. 5 out 6 films of his I've seen are 3-stars; the other one is a pile of crap. Park has made two great films, but he's also all over the place from mediocre on up. Bong's last film is great, Memories of a Murder was good, and I know I'm in the minority, but I did not like The Host. Lee, on the other hand, has made three amazing films in a row.

[transmogrifier]

Kim is a 3-star director. 5 out 6 films of his I've seen are 3-stars; the other one is a pile of crap. Park has made two great films, but he's also all over the place from mediocre on up. Bong's last film is great, Memories of a Murder was good, and I know I'm in the minority, but I did not like The Host. Lee, on the other hand, has made three amazing films in a row.

I think they are all as talented as each other, really. Kim is attracted to more conventional genre fare than the others; Lee is more hushed, middle-aged arty; Park is all about atmosphere and cinematic sensation; Bong likes to mess around with genre convention.

Hong just makes me sleepy.

[Ivan Drago]

I liked Paranormal Activity 2 a lot more when I saw it the first time last year. And when it was called Paranormal Activity.

[Grouchy]

Ehh... Election 2 > Election > Exiled
Completely reverse that and you got my opinion.

[Mysterious Dude]

So what does everyone think of this part of Roger Ebert's review of The Circus (published a few days ago), in which he compares Charlie Chaplin to Buster Keaton:


Buster seems a plausible mate, and the Tramp hardly seems to possess a libido, only idealized notions. If their comedies had been made in a more liberated time, it is possible to imagine Keaton in bed with a woman, but disquieting to think of the Tramp as a sexual being.

I gotta say, I think the Tramp would be way better in bed than Keaton's character. I bet a man who can't smile can't get an erection very easily, either.

[Sven]

Keaton is calculating and the definition of physically virile. The Tramp is shlumpy and just wants to snuggle. I'd buy the Keaton character with a woman far quicker than I would the Tramp.

[DavidSeven]

Runaway is one of the most delightfully strange and audacious things to come from mainstream music in a long time.

This is impressive. The super-seriousness makes it a bit tedious though.

[megladon8]

I hate being the prude here but, is that woman topless?

Should that maybe be spoiler-tagged?

[MacGuffin]

I hate being the prude here but, is that woman topless?

Should that maybe be spoiler-tagged?

What are you talking about?

[soitgoes...]

What are you talking about?Probably the naked woman in the pic above.

[MacGuffin]

Probably the naked woman in the pic above.

Are you talking about the barely visible woman in the second picture of a thorough and likely well-written review? You have to look really closely at the screen and squint just to see her nipple through sci-fi make-up.

[Grouchy]

Are you talking about the barely visible woman in the second picture of a thorough and likely well-written review? You have to look really closely at the screen and squint just to see her nipple through sci-fi make-up.
Hahah I was gonna post exactly that.

[soitgoes...]

Are you talking about the barely visible woman in the second picture of a thorough and likely well-written review? You have to look really closely at the screen and squint just to see her nipple through sci-fi make-up.
I think the point being made by Meg is that would such a picture be appropriate on a workplace computer regardless of how thorough and well-written a review it was posted with? Personally I could care less.

[transmogrifier]

I think the point being made by Meg is that would such a picture be appropriate on a workplace computer regardless of how thorough and well-written a review it was posted with? Personally I could care less.

Couldn't care less. Couldn't.

[MacGuffin]

I think the point being made by Meg is that would such a picture be appropriate on a workplace computer regardless of how thorough and well-written a review it was posted with?

Perfectly appropriate because no one is going to look that closely over Meg's shoulder in the workplace.

[soitgoes...]

Couldn't care less. Couldn't.Thanks grammar guy.

[DavidSeven]

I don't think it matters unless Meg is viewing this site with a 56 inch monitor at work, and I'm usually pretty sensitive about these kind of things.

By the way, she isn't technically topless. Her outfit is skin toned. With feathers.

[Winston*]

Yeah, Clipper's right. No one's going to casually glance over at that picture and think you're looking at something inappropriate. If anything, they're more likely to think that of the first image.

[Winston*]

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1722/pythonlettere1286467032.jpg

[Henry Gale]

It honestly didn't cross my mind. I can change it if it's really necessary.

On TV, some of the music was cut down for language, but I guess there was enough feather makeup and such around Ebanks' body to not cause offense on basic cable at 8pm.

Because remember, kids: If there's no nipple, there's no problem! If you wanna shoot someone though, go ahead. Just no blood... blood is gross.

[Henry Gale]

I mean, here's the shot right after that one, which technically looks a little less safe-for-work, but gives a better idea as to how it's not nudity:

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz284/henrygale42/toast/vlcsnap-455065.png

[Mysterious Dude]

I've seen pictures which were far less work-safe posted here. Plus, isn't it like two o'clock in the morning wherever you are, Meg? Surely, if you're working this late, you're not being supervised too closely.

[B-side]

The Texas Chain Saw Massacre starts out wonderfully. From the ominous, yet matter-of-fact voice over prelude, to the digging sounds punctuated with the jarring, illuminated and quick shots of the corpses, I was immediately taken. Things quickly went downhill when the characters were introduced, replete with all the awful acting and dialogue of a giallo sans the style and cinematography that often elevates those types of films. The initial interaction with the family via the hitchhiker feels pretty contrived and silly rather than menacing. Thankfully, though, after some more tedious interaction between the characters, Leatherface is introduced, and thus a newfound energy as Hooper uses his introduction to throw in the mix a slew of wonderful zooms and ratchets up the still elusive to me light motif often utilizing the moon or sun to foreboding effect. The dinner table scene is appropriately imposing and claustrophobic and feels like a direct source of inspiration for Rob Zombie. And watching Leatherface dance in the sunlight with his chainsaw in hand was brilliant.

[MadMan]

That score is too low. Otherwise, good to hear that you liked it Brightside.

[B-side]

That score is too low. Otherwise, good to hear that you liked it Brightside.

Truth be told, I've never been that big on horror films, and judging by my reaction to the film going through around half of it, I certainly wasn't expecting to give it as high of a score as I did.

[Spinal]

I hate being the prude here but, is that woman topless?

Should that maybe be spoiler-tagged?

I don't think the image is large enough to be an issue really.

[Boner M]

But seriously, is there a Korean filmmaker today that is even in the same class as Lee?

::Needs to see more films by Hong.::
Nah, Lee's miles ahead of Hong (and lightyears ahead of Park and Kim). I've only seen his latest three but they're enough to confirm him as one of my favorite filmmakers working today. Secret Sunshine and Poetry are really impressive and singular; billowing and exhausting viewing, but in hindsight complete fat-free. Oasis is a masterpiece through-and-through, can't believe it wasn't elligible for the 00's consensus.

[Chac Mool]

'The Bank Job', Chac Mool. I liked the movie too.

Thanks - that's the second time today I've made that mistake!

[number8]

Did someone talk down to Exiled? I have fists, you know. With knuckles.

[Qrazy]

That Runaway video was really quite bad. It did provide some insight as to why Kanye West's music is largely crap though. His compositions seem to involve him either mashing 2-4 buttons on a metal box or mashing 2-4 keys on a piano.

[megladon8]

I just don't understand this place sometimes.

[Ezee E]

I just don't understand this place sometimes.
I don't even know the image being discussed.

[Derek]

I don't even know the image being discussed.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j94/DSmith724/vlcsnap-448316-1.jpg

[baby doll]

Nah, Lee's miles ahead of Hong (and lightyears ahead of Park and Kim). I've only seen his latest three but they're enough to confirm him as one of my favorite filmmakers working today. Secret Sunshine and Poetry are really impressive and singular; billowing and exhausting viewing, but in hindsight complete fat-free. Oasis is a masterpiece through-and-through, can't believe it wasn't elligible for the 00's consensus.Don't forget Peppermint Candy!

[Ezee E]

Ah. Wouldn't have even noticed. If anything, that Zach G pic would be much more NSFW then this one, which could even be passed off as "art."

[megladon8]

I was under the impression that there was a zero tolerance for nudity here.

Since stuff like that has been called out many, many times before.

Hell, my From Russia With Love banner wasn't put up because it was too suggestive, with Bond pointing a gun at a woman who is (fully covered) lying in bed.

[Qrazy]

Can we stop talking about this yet?

[Dukefrukem]

stop talking about what?

[Ezee E]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j94/DSmith724/vlcsnap-448316-1.jpg

This.

[DavidSeven]

I'm going to go back to looking at giant cleavage photos of Courtney Cox in the Scream 4 thread until this is over.

[Dukefrukem]

This.

Looks neat. Is that an angel sitting on the chair?

[Dukefrukem]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lary138KfI1qzu8kvo1_128 0.png?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YY Q4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1288044269&Signature=RyNa5Kls2Xp5UcieAkdU RMi6kRw%3D

Runaway is one of the most delightfully strange and audacious things to come from mainstream music in a long time. It may be a bit too ambitious or self-indulgent to even work when taken out of the context of West's career, but the images and the music help to ground and contextualize enough of the necessary emotions to what they're trying to serve the throughline of the film as well as being moving on their own.

The images are consistently awe-inspiring and seem to go way beyond the sort of perfectionistic care of more expensive or professional music video-type endeavours ever do. It being a long-form music video that was simulataneously shown on MTV, VH1 and BET is probably enough of an accomplishment on its own these days, but for it to be as weird as it is while still coming from a pop presence as big as him, it's kind of amazing.

In long-winded answers about what inspired it, Kanye says that most of all, Runaway was him trying to make a film from his inner 5-year-old, one that loved the weird sensibilities of things by Jim Henson and George Lucas. But at the same time, it was him trying to bend that into a film like Purple Rain, Pink Floyd's The Wall or Michael Jackson's Thriller, if done with the elegance of someone like Kubrick or Fellini. Add to that a lot of high fashion-type designs and graphic novel framing, all put into a big hypothetical blender, set to his new album, and you have this. It's not on the same level as the best examples of any of those influences, but if those are the sort of thoughts and inspirations that got him to approach ideas like this, then he can cite whatever things he wants as influences.

The little dialogue in it, no matter how it helps to better express the thematic ideas in it, don't work well at all. As good as West has been in more brief, more comedic acting in recent years (his "We Were Once A Fairytale" by Spike Jonze, his sketch work on things like SNL), this first time he's put the task to deliver dramatic lines himself makes those moments come off very stilted and dull. In the post-movie Q&A, he was basically laughing himself off saying that it's like when Tarantino and Spike Lee show up in their films, he can't be mad because they still made the rest of it. "I'm no Daniel Day-Lewis ... but I created the whole thing so it doesn't really matter [as long as] you get the point." Still, I wish it was even less than just those half dozen lines.

I posted some more stills in the Random Screenshot Thread (http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=295401&postcount=91), and it can be seen pretty much anywhere online, but most clearly on his site (http://kanyewest.com/) and on YouTube in 720p. If you're at all a fan of his and want to experience a good sampling of the new album with gorgeous images undeniably from Kanye himself; then it's as good as if not better than any other sort of music video you can hope for these days. It's not perfect, but then again, the ideas in it also argue why that may not be a very bad thing at all.

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz284/henrygale42/toast/vlcsnap-448316.png

After reading this, I need to check this out when I get some free time... I clicked the link and watched the first 10 seconds. Is that naturally lighting? (the orange sky?) Totally grabbed me.

[Qrazy]

After reading this, I need to check this out when I get some free time... I clicked the link and watched the first 10 seconds. Is that naturally lighting? (the orange sky?) Totally grabbed me.

What do you think?

[Dukefrukem]

What do you think?

Dunno. I'd imagine they didn't wait around for a good sunset/sunrise so it's probably CGI. But it matches really well with what's going with the... I need to watch this now.

[baby doll]

I'm going to go back to looking at giant cleavage photos of Courtney Cox in the Scream 4 thread until this is over.You call that cleavage? It's more like a chasm.

[number8]

What the hell is going on here.

[Boner M]

I declare Fritz Lang's Fury to be awesome.

[Skitch]

Revanche...I've never thought of ze germans as subtle filmmakers, but occasionally they worm one in there. Wow. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

[soitgoes...]

I declare Fritz Lang's Fury to be awesome.
It is so.

[Derek]

I declare Fritz Lang's Fury to be awesome.

I'll have to see it a second time to be sure, but a small part of me thinks it might be even better than M.

[megladon8]

Yes, Fury was fantastic.

I may even agree it's better than M.

[megladon8]

So is Hereafter actually another Eastwood masterpiece?

babydoll gave it **** and that's the only rating I've seen so far.

[Rowland]

So is Hereafter actually another Eastwood masterpiece?Is this a rhetorical question?

[Mysterious Dude]

So is Hereafter actually another Eastwood masterpiece?

babydoll gave it **** and that's the only rating I've seen so far.
Watashi gave it one star. I guess it comes down to who you trust more.

[DavidSeven]

Ebert also gave it four stars. Most seem to hate it. I can't get past the feeling that we've been overrating Eastwood this whole time.

[transmogrifier]

Ebert also gave it four stars. Most seem to hate it. I can't get past the feeling that we've been overrating Eastwood this whole time.

Ebert gave his last glass of milk 4 stars. And he gave the sunrise this morning 4 stars as well.

[Winston*]

Ebert gave his last glass of milk 4 stars.
When a glass of milk was the last glass of milk you would ever drink, fond feelings towards it are understandable IMO.

[megladon8]

I find most of Eastwood's films to be quite average, but he's had some undeniable masterpieces.

[Milky Joe]

When a glass of milk was the last glass of milk you would ever drink, fond feelings towards it are understandable IMO.

...though not feelings I'd put much stock in to conjoin with my own personal reality. baby doll, however, I trust.

[Qrazy]

I find most of Eastwood's films to be quite average, but he's had some undeniable masterpieces.

I deny them.

[baby doll]

So is Hereafter actually another Eastwood masterpiece?

babydoll gave it **** and that's the only rating I've seen so far.Just to put that four-star rating into some sort of context, of Eastwood's other films that I've seen, I would say that two are masterpieces (A Perfect World, Gran Torino); two are pretty good (Mystic River, Changeling), despite my aversion to child abuse movies (Gone Baby Gone, which may the masterpiece of the genre, keeps the abusers and abusees off-screen for the better part of the picture); one is a camp hoot (Play Misty for Me); and the rest (Million Dollar Baby, Flags of Our Fathers, Letters From Iwo Jima, Invictus) are awful to varying degrees. Oh, and I saw True Crime and Space Cowboys when they came out, and have no desire to revisit either one of them.

[B-side]

I deny them.

Yeah. Unforgiven is easily the best of his that I've seen, and it's still no masterpiece.

[Qrazy]

Yeah. Unforgiven is easily the best of his that I've seen, and it's still no masterpiece.

Agreed on both counts.

[Derek]

despite my aversion to child abuse movies (Gone Baby Gone, which may the masterpiece of the genre, keeps the abusers and abusees off-screen for the better part of the picture)

Ben Affleck is Clint Eastwood's pen name or what?

[MacGuffin]

Ben Affleck is Clint Eastwood's pen name or what?

He was mentioning that he doesn't usually like movies about child abuse and notes Gone Baby Gone as a significant exception, then states why it works.

[Melville]

Agreed on both counts.
This can only call for one thing: ratings!

Unforgiven - masterpiece
Gran Torino - 6.5
Million Dollar Baby - 6.5
The Outlaw Josey Wales - 6
Mystic River - 5
Letters from Iwo Jima - 4.5
Absolute Power - 3.5
High Plains Drifter - 2
Space Cowboys - 2

I figured I could just quote the last post I made rating his films, but apparently that either never happened or I'm too incompetent to find the relevant post. Both plausible.

[Derek]

He was mentioning that he doesn't usually like movies about child abuse and notes Gone Baby Gone as a significant exception, then states why it works.

No, he wasn't.


Just to put that four-star rating into some sort of context, of Eastwood's other films that I've seen

Then he goes on to talk about all the other Eastwood films he's seen and Gone Baby Gone.

[Watashi]

No, he wasn't.



Then he goes on to talk about all the other Eastwood films he's seen and Gone Baby Gone.
He's comparing Mystic River and Changeling to Gone Baby Gone.

[MacGuffin]

No, he wasn't.

So he fucked up with putting the parenthesis so soon after Changeling and averted the topic a bit.

[B-side]

This can only call for one thing: ratings!

Gran Torino - 4
Flags of Our Fathers - 5
Million Dollar Baby - 5.5
Mystic River - 6
Unforgiven - 8
The Outlaw Josey Wales - 7
Breezy - 6

[Derek]

He's comparing Mystic River and Changeling to Gone Baby Gone.

And Mystic River. Confusing post, but "keeping the abusers/abusees off-screen most of the time" = better film does sound like BD-reasoning through and through.

[MacGuffin]

*** for Letters from Iwo Jima, ** for Gran Torino and likely failing grades for Million Dollar Baby and Mystic River (I don't know if I ever finished those last two).

[Qrazy]

This user comment about the Kanye video sounds about right to me...

"I watched it. It's interesting, but his acting is wooden and the basic theme (that America seeks to change whatever's abnormal) is less than insightful. For mainstream hiphop, it's a great accomplishment, but for everyone else, it's a 10th-grade project with a million-dollar budget."

[ledfloyd]

This user comment about the Kanye video sounds about right to me...

"I watched it. It's interesting, but his acting is wooden and the basic theme (that America seeks to change whatever's abnormal) is less than insightful. For mainstream hiphop, it's a great accomplishment, but for everyone else, it's a 10th-grade project with a million-dollar budget."
it's about right. it has some interesting visuals. though kanye is often too in love with them and there's too much slomo. overall it's a mess but there are plenty of shots i dug, and the music is good, of course.

[baby doll]

No, he wasn't.Actually, yeah, that's exactly what I was doing. Sorry if my grammar is a bit whimsical.

[baby doll]

And Mystic River. Confusing post, but "keeping the abusers/abusees off-screen most of the time" = better film does sound like BD-reasoning through and through.BD? In any event, I stand by that reasoning. I don't know about you, but I'm not some one who goes to the movies to see children being abused. That's something I can do without.

[Derek]

BD? In any event, I stand by that reasoning. I don't know about you, but I'm not some one who goes to the movies to see children being abused. That's something I can do without.

You don't see children being abused in Mystic River.

[baby doll]

You don't see children being abused in Mystic River.But you do see one being abducted and held captive, followed by two hours of Tim Robbins pandering for an Oscar.

[Grouchy]

BD? In any event, I stand by that reasoning. I don't know about you, but I'm not some one who goes to the movies to see children being abused. That's something I can do without.
Huh? Ridiculous.

I agree with your assessment of Eastwood films, though. A Perfect World and Gran Torino are my favorites.

[Derek]

But you do see one being abducted and held captive.

For a total of about 5 minutes.


followed by two hours of Tim Robbins pandering for an Oscar.

Yes, the rest of the film spends a lot of time with a victim of child abuse. Whether or not you like his performance is one thing, but suggesting that a film dealing with child abuse would inherently be better when the victim is mostly off-screen is absurd.

[soitgoes...]

Eastwood's masterpiece happened over 35 years ago, and as far as I remember contained no child abuse, though a midget takes some verbal abuse.

[Grouchy]

Eastwood's masterpiece happened over 35 years ago, and as far as I remember contained no child abuse, though a midget takes some verbal abuse.
Also true.

[Winston*]

Unforgiven is Eastwood's best and probably one of the best movies in general.

[number8]

We've been through this. A Perfect World.

[Dukefrukem]

Just to put that four-star rating into some sort of context, of Eastwood's other films that I've seen, I would say that two are masterpieces (A Perfect World, Gran Torino); two are pretty good (Mystic River, Changeling), despite my aversion to child abuse movies (Gone Baby Gone, which may the masterpiece of the genre, keeps the abusers and abusees off-screen for the better part of the picture); one is a camp hoot (Play Misty for Me); and the rest (Million Dollar Baby, Flags of Our Fathers, Letters From Iwo Jima, Invictus) are awful to varying degrees. Oh, and I saw True Crime and Space Cowboys when they came out, and have no desire to revisit either one of them.

Do you have a write up somewhere on Million Dollar Baby?

[Dukefrukem]

Also I love pretty much all Eastwood movies I've seen.

Unforgiven - 96
Million Dollar Baby - 95
Gran Torino - 93
Mystic River - 89
Changeling - 88

Predicted:

Hereafter 101
Changeling 100.5

[Dukefrukem]

This user comment about the Kanye video sounds about right to me...

"I watched it. It's interesting, but his acting is wooden and the basic theme (that America seeks to change whatever's abnormal) is less than insightful. For mainstream hiphop, it's a great accomplishment, but for everyone else, it's a 10th-grade project with a million-dollar budget."

What do you think is it's biggest flaw? He should have removed all dialog. It disrupts the mood.

[Raiders]

Eastwood:

A PERFECT WORLD ****
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER ****
UNFORGIVEN ***½
GRAN TORINO ***½
BIRD ***½
BREEZY ***½
MYSTIC RIVER ***½
MILLION DOLLAR BABY ***
WHITE HUNTER, BLACK HEART ***
THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES ***
LETTERS FROM IWO JIMA ***
PLAY MISTY FOR ME ***
THE BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY **½
HONKYTONK MAN **½
FLAGS OF OUR FATHERS **½
CHANGELING **
INVICTUS **
SPACE COWBOYS *½

I like 'im.

[Ezee E]

Eastwood's 4-Star movies:
Outlaw Josey Wales
Unforgiven
Mystic River
Million Dollar Baby

[Ezee E]

And Changeling is the only movie that I can think of that has enough stories that could make for a *, **, ***, and **** movie. It's bizarre.

[Spinal]

You guys, Mystic River is soooo bad.

[baby doll]

Do you have a write up somewhere on Million Dollar Baby?No, but to sum it up, it's just too full of stupid things, from the broadly sketched comic relief cracker to an aged, one-eyed Morgan Freeman knocking out a younger boxer in peak physical condition so that the geezers in the audience can cheer and say, "Take that, ya young whiper-snapper!"; to the glowering German villainess, who behaves according to the demands of the plot and then conveniently disappears from the film completely. I mean, I don't think Eastwood's ever been a very subtle director, but this is just too ridiculous.

[Raiders]

You guys, Mystic River is soooo bad.

Or not. Because it's not.

[Mysterious Dude]

You guys, Mystic River is soooo bad.
Not as bad as Gone Baby Gone.

[Kurosawa Fan]

You guys, Mystic River is soooo bad.

Totally and completely agree.

[number8]

Not as bad as Gone Baby Gone.

http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/061/615/original/Garbage-Day-Guy-opposite-day.jpg?1280055105

[Dukefrukem]

Then I guess I'm the only one here emotionally touched by Million Dollar Baby's story. The semantics and realism of who can knock out who doesn't bother me. I love the ups and downs of the character Maggie and the transformation Eastwood's character goes through.. much like the transformation of Walt in Gran Torino. Scenes don't need to be subtle to having meaning, which is the only complaint I've heard so far even though half the people here think the movie is bad...

[Ezee E]

Then I guess I'm the only one here emotionally touched by Million Dollar Baby's story. The semantics and realism of who can knock out who doesn't bother me. I love the ups and downs of the character Maggie and the transformation Eastwood's character goes through.. much like the transformation of Walt in Gran Torino. Scenes don't need to be subtle to having meaning, which is the only complaint I've heard so far even though half the people here think the movie is bad...
Yep. I'm one of the ones that will stick behind the movie. I don't reply back because the criticisms just don't affect me. They work within the context of the movie for me. Morgan Freeman was an ex-boxer himself, so when he knocks out Anthony Mackie, it still makes perfect sense. The hick family was everything that Swank worked to get away from, I never had a problem with that.

And yes, the change that Eastwood goes through is very affecting.

It might be my favorite from him.

[Dillard]

Clint Eastwood, as a director, is an enigma to Jim Emerson (http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/2010/10/eastwood_now_and_hereafter.htm l).

[DavidSeven]

Clint Eastwood, as a director, is an enigma to Jim Emerson (http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/2010/10/eastwood_now_and_hereafter.htm l).


I don't know if it has or hasn't, but it got me to thinking: I'm not sure I could identify a Clint Eastwood movie on sight. Is there an identifiable Eastwood directorial vision or style, apart from a certain willfully "classical" gloss applied to a professional reserve that sometimes borders on indifference? Is he like a William Wyler or a Robert Wise, a journeyman, capable of making some very good movies, whose sensibility is identifiable primarily through the combined talents of his collaborators? Who is Clint Eastwood, the director?

This is kind of stupid to me. Eastwood clearly has an identifiable aesthetic even if it's as simple as a noticeable color filter on all of his films. They're also paced similarly and often feature a similar style music (that he composes himself). Even the style of acting seems sort of consistent throughout his films. Look, I'm the one who said he was overrated in the first place, but Eastwood's sensibilities are stamped all over his movies. I'm not really familiar with Emerson, but he has to be some sort of movie retard to not see that.

[Ezee E]

This is kind of stupid to me. Eastwood clearly has an identifiable aesthetic even if it's as simple as a noticeable color filter on all of his films. They're also paced similarly and often feature a similar style music (that he composes himself). Even the style of acting seems sort of consistent throughout his films. Look, I'm the one who said he was overrated in the first place, but Eastwood's sensibilities are stamped all over his movies. I'm not really familiar with Emerson, but he has to be some sort of movie retard to not see that.
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of Emerson. Riding the coattails of rogerebert.com has done him well though. Otherwise, yes, you pointed out Clint's trademarks quite well. In fact, I'd say he's one director that I could figure out its his movie just through a screenshot or two.

[Raiders]

Emerson is always a pretty good read; and I wouldn't say he's "riding" anyone's coattails as he has been an established part of the online film community for some time now.

His point seems perfectly fair to me, though ultimately kind of useless. Eastwood is just about the most revered "studio" director currently putting out a film every year and he is fairly well-liked even among online and print film critics. So, Emerson is merely asking what is Eastwood's real vision when it comes to film? It doesn't seem fair at all to call him a "film retard" when he fully admits to seeing the color schemes and somber moods. His question is more about Eastwood as a prolific artist and what consistent themes, visions and concerns does he have. Emerson clearly puts it as more of an open question as opposed to a direct criticism.

[DavidSeven]

I guess I can see where he's coming from if he's strictly talking about Eastwood as a storyteller with a point of view. That seems harder to nail down, and I think Eastwood is particularly vulnerable to a weak script. But if that's what Emerson was going for, his paragraph is poorly worded and still wrong. Eastwood's films are at least identifiable by their aesthetic qualities.

Edit: Also should have noted that I stopped reading the review when he started going into Hereafter.

Edit 2: Wrote this before reading Raider's post. Seems right.

[Qrazy]

What do you think is it's biggest flaw? He should have removed all dialog. It disrupts the mood.

Yeah the dialogue is definitely insipid. But I disliked most of it from the acting, to the 'characters', to the concept, to the strained faux-arthouse execution, to the cut aways to explosions, to Kanye's mini-car commercial embedded in the film. The only thing it has going for it imo is a few decent shots in a Perfume commercial-esque manner and a couple catchy beats.

[megladon8]

So wait...has babydoll never seen Unforgiven?

[StanleyK]

I would agree that Eastwood is largely mediocre, but every once a while he manages to pull off a great movie. Just this decade, I loved Million Dollar Baby, Letters from Iwo Jima and Gran Torino.

[StanleyK]

Memories of Murder is goddamn amazing. I'm almost glad it didn't qualify for the 2000's top thingy, because it certainly would've displaced some movies.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Memories of Murder is goddamn amazing. I'm almost glad it didn't qualify for the 2000's top thingy, because it certainly would've displaced some movies.

Yeah! Another fan.

[balmakboor]

Anyone see The Searchers 2.0 yet? Sounds interesting.


The always eclectic Alex Cox takes on John Ford via Sergio Leone -- or maybe it's the other way around -- in "Searchers 2.0." In Cox's comic take on the Western road movie, two aging character actors meet by chance and decide to travel to Monument Valley to wreak vengeance on the scriptwriter who terrorized them when they were child extras on the set of "Buffalo Bill vs. Doc Holiday." Zero-budgeted, Roger Corman-produced, digitally-shot curio will probably head straight to DVD, though its desert-set wanderings play particularly well on the bigscreen.
Stock Cox thesps Del Zamora and Ed Pansullo portray the two revenge-seeking bit-players, Mel Torres and Fred Fletcher.

Fred (Pansullo) comes off as a paranoid gun freak, ranting about Michael Moore and Al Gore. Mel (Zamora), on the other hand, is a deadbeat dad who tricks his grown daughter Delilah (Jaclyn Jonet) into driving the duo into the desert on the pretext of offering her a vacation. As the two codgers bicker non-stop from California to Arizona to Utah, Delilah is alternately amused and appalled.

They are pursuing Fred Frobischer (Sy Richardson), who is slated to present one of his old films on a huge inflatable screen in Monument Valley. But his Q&A is cancelled when the scheduled oater doesn't arrive, and the would-be avengers find Fred selling T-shirts.

A final confrontation between the three men takes the form of a triangulated showdown straight out of "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly," as they systematically challenge one another to name still-living Leone stunt men.

"Searchers 2.0" is as minimalist and laid-back as Cox's last film, "Revengers Tragedy" (2002), was overwrought and over-the-top. New pic's charm lies in its B movie-obsessed protagonists arguing over everything from whether Charlton Heston was ever head of the Screen Actors Guild to the war in Iraq. Their hodgepodge of beliefs, half-truths and rarefied experiences seems to come equally from extreme marginalism and middle-of-the-road Americana.

Tech credits are impressive; Steven Fierberg's flawless DV lensing does the wide-open spaces proud while Dan Wool's Grieg-laced score determinedly propels the travelers onward.

[megladon8]

Yes, Memories of Murder is quite an amazing movie.

Bong is a really exciting filmmaker.

[Fezzik]

I agree with your assessment of Eastwood films, though. A Perfect World and Gran Torino are my favorites.


We've been through this. A Perfect World.

By far my favorite Eastwood as well. The shame is, most of my friends either haven't heard of it or don't want to see it because Kevin Costner is in it.

I think its a rather remarkable film.

[Qrazy]

By far my favorite Eastwood as well. The shame is, most of my friends either haven't heard of it or don't want to see it because Kevin Costner is in it.

I think its a rather remarkable film.

Ease them into Costner with JFK and then spring A Perfect World on them?

[balmakboor]

Ease them into Costner with JFK and then spring A Perfect World on them?

He's pretty fantastic in Bull Durham and a lot of fun in Silverado as well.

Man, I thought somebody around here would've seen The Searchers 2.0.

[transmogrifier]

I haven't even seen The Searchers 1.0

[Derek]

I haven't even seen The Searchers 1.0

You need to fix that. Really deserves its rep among the greats - liked it a lot when I saw it years ago, but it blew me away when I saw it again earlier this year.

[Qrazy]

He's pretty fantastic in Bull Durham and a lot of fun in Silverado as well.

Man, I thought somebody around here would've seen The Searchers 2.0.

He is pretty good in Bull but I find the film somewhat obnoxious. Silverado is quite fun though.

[megladon8]

I really liked Open Range.

[Mysterious Dude]

My top ten movies of the "child abuse" genre:

1. Fanny and Alexander
2. Mysterious Skin
3. Lilja 4-Ever
4. El Bola
5. The Cell
6. The Boys of St. Vincent
7. The Butterfly Effect
8. Farewell My Concubine
9. The Devil's Backbone
10. Salaam Bombay!

[baby doll]

So wait...has babydoll never seen Unforgiven?I also haven't seen...

Amadeus
Back to the Future
Cinema Paradiso
Cool Hand Luke
Das Boot
Forrest Gump (I did see part of it on TV about a decade ago)
Groundhog Day
Heat
The Hustler
Jaws (watched twenty minutes and thought, "Who wants to watch people getting eaten by sharks? Why is this entertainment?" Apparently the rest of the movie is rather different)
Once Upon a Time in the West
The Princess Bride
Se7en
The Shawshank Redemption
Zodiac

[balmakboor]

I haven't even seen The Searchers 1.0

Yeah, you should fix that. It's one of those movies that I watch every chance I get.

[Boner M]

the "child abuse" genre:
"Up the back, between 'romantic comedy' and 'family'"

[Derek]

7. The Butterfly Effect
8. Farewell My Concubine

The order here saddens and confuses me.

[balmakboor]

I also haven't seen...

Amadeus
Back to the Future
Cinema Paradiso
Cool Hand Luke
Das Boot
Forrest Gump (I did see part of it on TV about a decade ago)
Groundhog Day
Heat
The Hustler
Jaws (watched twenty minutes and thought, "Who wants to watch people getting eaten by sharks? Why is this entertainment?" Apparently the rest of the movie is rather different)
Once Upon a Time in the West
The Princess Bride
Se7en
The Shawshank Redemption
Zodiac

I finally saw Cool Hand Luke last year. Liked it a lot.

I've seen everything on your list -- which means you did a good job of picking movies to list that others have almost certainly seen. I bolded the ones I'd suggest running out and seeing right away. I've never much liked Heat or Princess Bride for some reason.

[Boner M]

I'll have to see it a second time to be sure, but a small part of me thinks it might be even better than M.
The viewing also benefited from only a quick glance at the synopsis. I thought the entirety was going to be a sermon against lynch mobs with Tracy nobly suffering for 90 minutes. The way it complicates our identification toward him, with Sylvia Sydney emerging as the true protagonist ultimately pushed the film toward greatness. And the usual Fritzy goodness; canted angles, grotesquely lit faces, bar-motifs... his touches aren't laid on as thick as usual, but just as palpable as they were M or You Only Live Once.

btw, I'm read Tom Gunning's book on Lang now... it's great stuff.

[baby doll]

I finally saw Cool Hand Luke last year. Liked it a lot.

I've seen everything on your list -- which means you did a good job of picking movies to list that others have almost certainly seen. I bolded the ones I'd suggest running out and seeing right away. I've never much liked Heat or Princess Bride for some reason.I just picked those off of IMDb's Top 250. The one I most want to see is probably Groundhog Day, although I did recently almost purchase Once Upon a Time in the West on DVD for six bucks.

Also, the main reason I haven't seen Zodiac is that they only have the full screen version at the public library, so if I am going to see it, I have to shell out five bucks to rent it.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So I just saw Amelie for the first time in years, and years, and years and wound up really loving it. It's pure fantasy, but there should be more girls like her out and about.

In other news, everybody give me a top 10 Altman. Stat! I dunno whether I should download Secret Honour or Thieves Like Us.

[baby doll]

there should be more girls like her out and about.You mean super-neurotic?

[balmakboor]

So I just saw Amelie for the first time in years, and years, and years and wound up really loving it. It's pure fantasy, but there should be more girls like her out and about.

In other news, everybody give me a top 10 Altman. Stat! I dunno whether I should download Secret Honour or Thieves Like Us.

My favorite never mentioned Altman is Tanner 88. Also, if you can find it, check out Come Back to the Five and Dime, Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean.

Both films you mentioned are well worth the time as well.

[Qrazy]

So I just saw Amelie for the first time in years, and years, and years and wound up really loving it. It's pure fantasy, but there should be more girls like her out and about.

In other news, everybody give me a top 10 Altman. Stat! I dunno whether I should download Secret Honour or Thieves Like Us.

Neither is all that good. I guess I slightly preferred Secret Honor.

[Bosco B Thug]

In other news, everybody give me a top 10 Altman. Stat! I dunno whether I should download Secret Honour or Thieves Like Us. 1. 3 Women
2. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
3. Fool for Love
4. The Long Goodbye
5. Nashville
6. Brewster McCloud
7. The Company
8. California Split
9. MASH
10. Secret Honor

Thieves Like Us is one of the very few Altman films not to elicit from me an immediate enthusiasm for it. Although, if you're looking for entertainment, one's an actual narrative film and the other is a one-man soliloquy, so keep that in mind.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You mean super-neurotic?

Well I was going for 'slightly creepy despite looking very cute'? I guess I have a type. I also like 'em french, but then I would.

Neurotic girls are no fun, and I would know. I live in Toronto. Amelie seems like the kind of girl I could have a good time with.

[Derek]

You mean super-neurotic?

I think he means cute chicks who hang out in porn shops.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Neither is all that good. I guess I slightly preferred Secret Honor.

Unhinged Philip Baker Hall sounds amazing.

[B-side]

In other news, everybody give me a top 10 Altman. Stat!

I haven't seen 10 Altman, but I'd probably rank them something like this:

Images
3 Women
McCabe and Mrs. Miller (needs a rewatch)
Secret Honor
Short Cuts
A Prairie Home Companion

All good or better.

[balmakboor]

I watched Following tonight. Maybe I was too tired, but I found it hard to, well, follow. I left it in my Instant queue for another go sometime. Does it all actually make sense and stuff? I loved the hook though about a guy who follows people so that they will become individuals to him rather than just abstract faces on the street.

[soitgoes...]

Gosford Park
McCabe and Mrs. Miller
The Player
Short Cuts
The Long Goodbye
Buffalo Bill and the Indians, or Sitting Bull’s History Lesson
Tanner 88
Nashville
California Split
Kansas City

[B-side]

There's a disturbing lack of Images on these Altman lists. Granted, there are only 2 of them so far, but you can consider this a pre-emptive declaration of my confusion and/or disappointment.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've actually never even heard of it. I'll give it a look see at my school library tomorrow, as I do have a good 3 hours to kill during the afternoon.

[B-side]

I've actually never even heard of it. I'll give it a look see at my school library tomorrow, as I do have a good 3 hours to kill during the afternoon.

If you don't, consequences will never be the same.

http://i52.tinypic.com/aea6fr.jpg

[soitgoes...]

If you don't, consequences will never be the same.

http://www.uploderx.net/dphrag/1279585330951964.jpg

Your spoilered consequence isn't working for me.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I dunno. A red x is pretty anxiety inducing nonetheless.

[Bosco B Thug]

There's a disturbing lack of Images on these Altman lists. Granted, there are only 2 of them so far, but you can consider this a pre-emptive declaration of my confusion and/or disappointment. Noo, you're right, Images is awesome. I admit to snubbing it. I have misgivings about the ending... I feel it closes up instead of opens out... ehh something like that. Anyway, when I think back on it, all I really dwell upon is how stunning it is.

[B-side]

My wit relies almost entirely on hotlinking various images pulled from the annals of the internet tubes. Maybe I should just carry around a Jewish guy to write material for me. Is it racist if the stereotype is helpful? I can't answer these questions.

[transmogrifier]

So I just saw Amelie for the first time in years, and years, and years and wound up really loving it. It's pure fantasy, but there should be more girls like her out and about.

In other news, everybody give me a top 10 Altman. Stat! I dunno whether I should download Secret Honour or Thieves Like Us.

1. Short Cuts
2. The Long Goodbye
3. Nashville
4. McCabe and Mrs Miller
5. The Player
6. MASH
7. Images
8. Gosford Park
9. Brewster McCloud
10. Cookie's Fortune

Best director eva

Edit: Either TLU or SH; both are equally good.

[soitgoes...]

Ugh. I forgot about The Player. Edited my above post to include his third bestest film that I've seen.

[B-side]

I totally fixed my post for the sake of an internet meme reference most of you won't get or find funny anyway. At least I'm dedicated to foisting my ridiculous sense of humor on unsuspecting, tax-paying citizens.

[megladon8]

I totally fixed my post for the sake of an internet meme reference most of you won't get or find funny anyway. At least I'm dedicated to foisting my ridiculous sense of humor on unsuspecting, tax-paying citizens.


I got it :)

[transmogrifier]

I totally fixed my post for the sake of an internet meme reference most of you won't get or find funny anyway. At least I'm dedicated to foisting my ridiculous sense of humor on unsuspecting, tax-paying citizens.

I got it, but that meme got old fast.

[Bosco B Thug]

My wit relies almost entirely on hotlinking various images pulled from the annals of the internet tubes. Maybe I should just carry around a Jewish guy to write material for me. Is it racist if the stereotype is helpful? I can't answer these questions. Tell Qrazy to marry a slovenly woman again.

[B-side]

I got it, but that meme got old fast.

True enough, but I've been known to beat a proverbial dead horse long after mummification set in.

[B-side]

Tell Qrazy to marry a slovenly woman again.

Heh. Is it weird that I thought that was probably the funniest thing I've said in a few years?

[megladon8]

I never found the actual meme to be particularly funny. The videos and images of the dad flipping out did nothing for me.

It was just that line "the consequences will never be the same". It still makes me laugh.

And to a lesser degree "you've been back-traced!"

[B-side]

I never found the actual meme to be particularly funny. The videos and images of the dad flipping out did nothing for me.

It was just that line "the consequences will never be the same". It still makes me laugh.

And to a lesser degree "you've been back-traced!"

Well, the actual harassment of an 11 year old girl is no good. It turned me off pretty quickly, but I found humor in the redneck dad and his vernacular.

[Bosco B Thug]

Heh. Is it weird that I thought that was probably the funniest thing I've said in a few years? You can't will inspiration!

[B-side]

You can't will inspiration!

I probably have a brain tumor or something. It explains these weird little moods I get in, and the sporadic transportation of my mind to medieval London.

[MadMan]

Not as bad as Gone Baby Gone.:| If you mean by "Great" instead of "Bad," then yes it is indeed one of the best of the 2000s. Absolutely.

[Killed_by_Smalls]

Top 11 Altmans (since that's how many I've seen)

1. Nashville
2. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
3. 3 Women
4. Short Cuts
5. The Player
6. Gosford Park
7. The Long Goodbye
8. California Split
9. M*A*S*H
10. Secret Honor
11. Kansas City

I really need to watch some more from him soon. Has anyone seen Quintet? I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about it. It's available for Instant Viewing on Netflix. If nothing else the cast is intriguing.

[megladon8]

Well, the actual harassment of an 11 year old girl is no good. It turned me off pretty quickly, but I found humor in the redneck dad and his vernacular.


Wasn't she 13?

And I'm sorry, she went onto 4chan and got naked for fun, then claimed to be a "victim" of their "harassment".

She victimized herself.

Which is why her dad's reaction of profuse anger towards the people who called her a moron was pretty funny.

[B-side]

Wasn't she 13?

And I'm sorry, she went onto 4chan and got naked for fun, then claimed to be a "victim" of their "harassment".

She victimized herself.

Which is why her dad's reaction of profuse anger towards the people who called her a moron was pretty funny.

I think she was 11. If she were a bit older I'd probably be right there with you, but 4chan's response got a bit out of hand.

[megladon8]

I think she was 11. If she were a bit older I'd probably be right there with you, but 4chan's response got a bit out of hand.


Yeah, but it's 4chan. What do you expect? Restraint? :P

[B-side]

Yeah, but it's 4chan. What do you expect? Restraint? :P

Heh. True.

4chan does do some good (http://www.urlesque.com/2010/09/03/operation-birthday-boy/) here and there, though.

[Derek]

Altman ranked (in an attempt to dissuade people from watching Images before his many better films. Sorry BS, but you hate me already ;)):

1) McCabe & Mrs. Miller
2) The Player
3) The Long Goodbye
4) The Company
5) Short Cuts
6) Nashville
7) California Split
8) A Wedding
9) Buffalo Bill and the Indians Or Sitting Bull's History Lesson
10) MASH
11) 3 Women
12) A Prairie Home Companion
13) Brewster McCloud
14) Thieves Like Us
15) Gosford Park
16) The James Dean Story
17) Kansas City
18) Images

[soitgoes...]

Sorry BS, but you hate me already ;)):

15) Gosford Park
And now so do I.

[transmogrifier]

18) Images

Ridiculous.

[B-side]

I suppose I'll just echo trans' sentiments.

[Qrazy]

Top 11 Altmans (since that's how many I've seen)

1. Nashville
2. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
3. 3 Women
4. Short Cuts
5. The Player
6. Gosford Park
7. The Long Goodbye
8. California Split
9. M*A*S*H
10. Secret Honor
11. Kansas City

I really need to watch some more from him soon. Has anyone seen Quintet? I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about it. It's available for Instant Viewing on Netflix. If nothing else the cast is intriguing.

Yes I've seen it. It's one of the worst films ever made.

[Sven]

I can get jazzed about posting a top ten Altman...:

1 Nashville
Popeye
Brewster McCloud
Tanner on Tanner
A Wedding
OC & Stiggs
Cookie's Fortune
Fool for Love
McCabe & Mrs. Miller
10 Beyond Therapy

...though I'd get even more jazzed if we were posting a top twenty Altman:

11 Buffalo Bill and the Indians
The Company
HealtH
Short Cuts
Ready to Wear
MASH
The Long Goodbye
Dr. T and the Women
California Split
20 Images

All four stars. Best director there ever was.

[Derek]

And now so do I.

Don't take my Gosford Park placement seriously. It was one of the first Altman's I saw, back when it first came out. I can almost guarantee I'd like it more now.


Ridiculous.

Yes, Images is ridiculous and it made me sleepy.


20 Images

:pritch:

[transmogrifier]

:pritch:



All four stars. Best director there ever was.

And that is that.

[Boner M]

1. 3 Women ****
2. Short Cuts
3. McCabe and Mrs. Miller
4. California Split ***1/2
5. Nashville
6. The Long Goodbye
7. Images ***
8. The Company
9. Gosford Park
10. A Prairie Home Companion
11. A Wedding
12. The Player **1/2

Need to explore outside his canonical films.

[Boner M]

Hey, can anyone who's seen Alonso's Liverpool tell me - how much dialogue is there in the film? And how essential are English subtitles for the experience? I ask because I ordered a French boxset of his 4 features and Liverpool is the only one without English subs.

On that note, La Libertad is a helluva film, esp. as a debut for a 25-year-old. As minimalist as they come, but full of lingering idiosyncrasies and rich in mystery. About halfway through has a moment that literalises the title in formal terms, and I got the shivers. And goddamn, that final shot will haunt me for days. This might be a 4-star film depending on how I feel the next morning.

[Raiders]

Altman's turn? OK.

1 MCCABE & MRS. MILLER ****
2 THE COMPANY ****
3 SHORT CUTS ****
4 3 WOMEN ***½
5 NASHVILLE ***½
6 THAT COLD DAY IN THE PARK ***½
7 THE PLAYER ***½
8 BUFFALO BILL AND THE INDIANS, OR SITTING BULL'S HISTORY LESSON ***½
9 M*A*S*H ***
10 A PRAIRIE HOME COMPANION ***
11 COME BACK TO THE FIVE AND DIME, JIMMIE DEAN, JIMMIE DEAN **½
12 GOSFORD PARK **
13 READY TO WEAR *½

No reason I haven't seen The Long Goodbye yet, though I'm actually more interested in first seeing California Split and A Wedding.

[Russ]

I'd really like to see Brewster McCloud.

[Ivan Drago]

Waiting for Superman (Guggenheim, 2010) *½

Uh-oh.

Altman:

1. The Player 9
2. Gosford Park 7.5
3. M*A*S*H 7.5
4. A Prairie Home Companion 7

Yeah, I've seen enough. /sarcasm

[Ivan Drago]

For those who haven't seen it and/or were interested, Irreversible is now on Netflix Instant Watch.

[Melville]

1. The Long Goodbye - 8.5
2. McCabe & Mrs. Miller - 7
3. M*A*S*H - 6.5
4. Nashville - 6
5. 3 Women - 6
6. Short Cuts - 5.5
7. Gosford Park - 5
8. The Player - 4.5

Evidently I stand alone in my Altman indifference. Too glib and condescending to his characters. I prefer my movies madly serious and wrapped up in their characters to the point of incoherence.

[Watashi]

I prefer my movies madly serious and wrapped up in their characters to the point of incoherence.

:|

1. Nashville
2. The Player
3. M*A*S*H
4. The Long Goodbye
5. Gosford Park
6. A Priarie Home Companion
7. Short Cuts
8. 3 Women

3 Women is the only one I'm 'meh' on. I need to rewatch McCabe and Mrs. Miller.

[Eleven]

1. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
2. Nashville
3. California Split
4. M*A*S*H
5. The Long Goodbye
6. 3 Women
7. A Prairie Home Companion
8. Thieves Like Us
9. Short Cuts
10. Brewster McCloud

Or basically anything but Quintet.

[baby doll]

Hey, can anyone who's seen Alonso's Liverpool tell me - how much dialogue is there in the film? And how essential are English subtitles for the experience? I ask because I ordered a French boxset of his 4 features and Liverpool is the only one without English subs.It's been two years, but I mostly remember there being a lot of scenes of the guy getting drunk and passing out, so you could probably watch it without subtitles and still get the gist of it. How's your Spanish?

[baby doll]

As for Altman...

1. McCabe & Mrs. Miller (1971)
2. Gosford Park (2001)
3. The Long Goodbye (1973)
4. California Split (1974)
5. 3 Women (1977)
6. Popeye (1980)
7. A Prairie Home Companion (2006)

I need to take another look at Brewster McCloud and Nashville, and I've never seen Images.

[MadMan]

Altman:

1. Nashville-100
2. The Long Goodbye-95

That's it. He's one of those directors who I'm sure is great, but I just haven't gotten around to for some reason.

[dreamdead]

Well, thanks to a graduate class I'm taking, I can finally say that I've seen a film worse than Leap Year or The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I'm No Angel, starring Mae West, now takes center stage as the worst film that I've sat through. Her entire persona is artificial, the script is beyond godawful, and the filmic dynamics foster nothing interesting. Just a horrible waste.

[balmakboor]

Well, thanks to a graduate class I'm taking, I can finally say that I've seen a film worse than Leap Year or The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I'm No Angel, starring Mae West, now takes center stage as the worst film that I've sat through. Her entire persona is artificial, the script is beyond godawful, and the filmic dynamics foster nothing interesting. Just a horrible waste.

The worst film you've ever sat through gets a 2. Are you still holding out for the worstest film you've ever sat through to appear some day?

[soitgoes...]

Well, thanks to a graduate class I'm taking, I can finally say that I've seen a film worse than Leap Year or The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I'm No Angel, starring Mae West, now takes center stage as the worst film that I've sat through. Her entire persona is artificial, the script is beyond godawful, and the filmic dynamics foster nothing interesting. Just a horrible waste.
She Done Him Wrong is the only Mae West film I've seen, and it's awful as well.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Evidently I stand alone in my Altman indifference. Too glib and condescending to his characters. I prefer my movies madly serious and wrapped up in their characters to the point of incoherence.

I can sort of get on board with this. I'm not a huge fan either, but Secret Honour really does sound pretty amazing and I started thinking that I should get around to giving him a closer look one of these days anyways. As for his glibness and condescension, don't you like the Coen Brothers? Glibness doesn't really bother me, but what prevents Altman's elevation to the realm of greatness (for me, at least) is his adherence to realism and 'slice-of-life' narratives which isn't the most interesting of aesthetics to me. I prefer Cassavetes (to name one example) who has a similar style but often relies on histrionics and pulpiness and dudes like Peter Falk and the Gazzara. Altman is still pretty formally impressive though.

I recommend you check out California Split, though. It has a lot of Elliot Gould doing his Gould-en shtick and George Segal is one of those guys who is always pretty great in everything, I think. Just a really touching and funny movie about very good friends who happen to be total losers.

[transmogrifier]

Altman:

1. Nashville-100
2. The Long Goodbye-95

That's it. He's one of those directors who I'm sure is great, but I just haven't gotten around to for some reason.

So lucky - you get to watch all his films for the first time.

[transmogrifier]

Any time someone bad mouths Altman, a future Denis Dugan is born.

[megladon8]

Altman is a filmmaker who has grown in esteem with me over time.

When I first started posting at RT, I watched a few of his films and just didn't "get it". I was 14, had yet to even really attempt watching many foreign films, and was still very immature in all ways.

Now I have utmost respect for him, and I really want to see more of his work as I've only seen three or four of his films.

I find The Long Goodbye fascinating, and I quite like Gosford Park as well, turning the Agatha Christie murder mystery diagram on its head.

[StanleyK]

Au Hasard Balthazar was so much better than all the previous Bressons, it's not even funny.

[Mysterious Dude]

So lucky - you get to watch all his films for the first time.
Can someone explain to me why people say this? I mean, didn't you get to watch all his films for the first time? What makes him more lucky than you are?

[Boner M]

I prefer Cassavetes (to name one example) who has a similar style but often relies on histrionics and pulpiness and dudes like Peter Falk and the Gazzara.
Cassavetes = pulpiness? Wha?

[B-side]

Au Hasard Balthazar was so much better than all the previous Bressons, it's not even funny.

You seen L'argent yet? That one's probably my favorite of his so far.

[transmogrifier]

Can someone explain to me why people say this? I mean, didn't you get to watch all his films for the first time? What makes him more lucky than you are?

We say this as a means to sound appreciation for the filmmaker in question. It refers to the exquisite feeling of discovery and emotional satisfaction garnered from the initial viewing of a top-quality film. By implying that we wish to watch the films again for the first time, others can infer that these films indeed contain the qualities mentioned above. By stating this for a filmmaker's entire filmography, it gives the impression that he has produced several worthy films, and is can thusly be referred to as a "good" director.

Synonyms include:
Altman is a good director.
Altman makes good films.
Altman shows a fine sense of cinematic craft.
If God was a director, He would take lessons from Altman.
Altman roxx LOL IMHO!
Altman is a muthafucking master, muthafuckers!
Altman sucks my balls*



*disputed

[Spaceman Spiff]

Cassavetes = pulpiness? Wha?

I was thinking specifically about Killing of a Chinese Bookie there. Maybe scuzzyness is more a propos? I prefer the scuzzyness, and luridness, and jazzyness and pulp of that movie over Altman's less boozed-out noir (which is actually my favorite of his).

[Melville]

As for his glibness and condescension, don't you like the Coen Brothers? Glibness doesn't really bother me, but what prevents Altman's elevation to the realm of greatness (for me, at least) is his adherence to realism and 'slice-of-life' narratives which isn't the most interesting of aesthetics to me.
But their glibness is within the context of a darkly humorous exploration of absurdity, a dark humor and absurdity that's wonderfully captured in their strongly defined style of dialogue, visuals, and music. And their films have a strong appreciation for people doing their seemingly ridiculous things, especially in Fargo's picture of heroism and The Big Lebowski's ode to bowling and taking it easy for all us sinners. Altman doesn't have a style I find interesting, and his films generally feel tepid and bemused.


I prefer Cassavetes (to name one example) who has a similar style but often relies on histrionics and pulpiness and dudes like Peter Falk and the Gazzara. Altman is still pretty formally impressive though.
Cassavetes is good stuff: more immediate and raw, both emotionally and aesthetically. The Falk factor certainly helps.


I recommend you check out California Split, though.
Yeah, I've wanted to see that one since it was on Duncan's top 100.

[Boner M]

Maybe scuzzyness is more a propos? I prefer the scuzzyness, and luridness, and jazzyness and pulp of that movie over Altman's less boozed-out noir (which is actually my favorite of his).
We have a winner.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm just a really big fan of sleaze, is essentially what I'm getting at.

[StanleyK]

You seen L'argent yet? That one's probably my favorite of his so far.

Not yet; as I'm going through his filmography in order, it will be my last.

[Melville]

I'm just a really big fan of sleaze, is essentially what I'm getting at.
Have you seen A Serbian Film? Pretty lame, but sleazy.
EDIT: I guess it's just the content that's sleazy. The style is mundane.

[StanleyK]

On Altman:

MASH - **
Nashville - ****
Dr. T and the Women - *
Gosford Park - ****

I have also seen (and wasn't a big fan of, but I think that could change) A Wedding, The Player, The Company and A Prairie Home Companion.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Have you seen A Serbian Film? Pretty lame, but sleazy.
EDIT: I guess it's just the content that's sleazy. The style is mundane.

Well I'm not into Balkan sleaze.

[StanleyK]

Can someone explain to me why people say this? I mean, didn't you get to watch all his films for the first time? What makes him more lucky than you are?

Personally I prefer revisiting films. Great movies yield more the more you already know about them.

[Derek]

And that is that.

You miss the point. Sven loves everything Altman, so his star rating is a given. The fact that he prefers 19 Altman films to Images is not.


Hey, can anyone who's seen Alonso's Liverpool tell me - how much dialogue is there in the film? And how essential are English subtitles for the experience? I ask because I ordered a French boxset of his 4 features and Liverpool is the only one without English subs.

It would help, but you could get by without them.


Au Hasard Balthazar was so much better than all the previous Bressons, it's not even funny.

It's so much better than 99.9% of all other films.