28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Ezee E]

All this film festival talk is getting me excited for Telluride/Denver.

[Watashi]

Anytime I see footage or marketing for Paper Heart, it makes me want to punch babies.

[Ezee E]

Anytime I see footage or marketing for Paper Heart, it makes me want to punch babies.
I concur.

[MacGuffin]

With Suzuki in general there's much more than experimentation with color. With this film alone the sets intentionally become more theatrical as the film progresses. In other films he breaks down the image and plays with film stock.

That doesn't make it Godardian. Godard's less concerned with colors than he is with composition and montage. (One excuse could be the scene with Samuel Fuller in Pierrot le fou, but I still think Godard's movies are colorful because he doesn't want the movie to look ugly... the colors are still pretty realistic and don't distract like Suzuki's do).


Both are. The continuity 'problems' are intentional. Both directors also frequently use characters as avatars for concepts/archetypes within genre (Lemmy Caution/No. 1 Killer).

I think narrative (plot) is a last priority for Godard, which is why his haphazard editing styles and technical experimentations always are more important. They can potentially change the plot entirely. I think Godard's movies are less plot oriented than they are a mirror of modern times whether that's in Godard's life, in the lives of others or in politics.


Perhaps mock is too strong a word in both cases, poke fun at rather, which both do.

Okay, I'll agree with this, but that strikes me as more of a coincidence. Plenty of directors poke fun at genres.


He's concerned with limiting plot/narrative in favor of aesthetic. Unfortunately you did not like this aesthetic. But there is also a plot there which makes sense, it's just not the focus.

What is the aesthetic then?


Suzuki had contempt for the studio he was working for, Godard had contempt for the American studio system... the bourgeois lifestyle, anyone who has read less or seen less films than him, etc.

That last part is a very demeaning assumption. I don't think Godard had contempt for people who read less than him; his films usually contain humorous and personal references to philosophers and authors that he likes. Sometimes it amazes me to think that there are parts in a Godard movie that perhaps no one will ever understand except Godard. The amount of depth in a single one of his movies amazes me now that I think about it.


Godard and Suzuki are very similar, I just gave roughly ten reasons why. Your hatred for one Suzuki film is blinding you to these similarities. I did not say Tokyo Drifter is similar to any given Godard film. It is their approach to art and direction which is similar (not their overall aesthetic)... even Suzuki's political concerns come out in Gate of Flesh or Story of a Prostitute.

It still strikes me as a poor comparison. Anybody could probably attempt to compare Godard to many directors. Just because Godard and Suzuki experiment with montage and style doesn't make them similar directors. It could make them directors with similar views on how to make a movie, but I don't think the movies they make themselves are very similar at all.


For Godard Breathless, Band of Outsiders, Alphaville, Pierrot le Fou and others are all unique reexaminations of genre... some crime, some lovers on the run/crime (Bonnie and Clyde), sci fi... alternatively, given his situation, Suzuki was mostly concerned with examining one genre (yakuza).

Don't forget A Woman Is a Woman! I see where you're coming from, I just don't think that it is the best comparison. It's certainly not out of left field or anything, but I think it's a comparison that not only feels like it could apply to several directors, but also tends to limit the individuality of the directors you are comparing.

[Spinal]

I love Ed Wood more and more every time I see it. Funny, both inspiring and frustrating, and filmed beautifully by Burton who infuses it with style without reaching his usual excesses.

Yeah, I think it's his best by a pretty wide margin.

[MacGuffin]

This is the most depressing thing I have read in a long, long time.

I liked White Dog, but I was seriously a bit bothered by how Fuller basically cheapened his material with the 80s techniques: slow motion and zoom-ins. I thought otherwise the movie was pretty well-crafted thematically. As for Séance, I liked it a little, but I think it's probably the least rewarding Kiyoshi Kurosawa that I've seen yet. He's definitely a director I want to watch more of.

[BuffaloWilder]

That sounds like a good plan. But it's still not Godardian. It's like westerners don't know how to situate Asian filmmakers within their respective national cinemas without a western counterpart (i.e., Akira Kurosawa is the Japanese John Ford). Nagisa Oshima was so sick of being called the Japanese Godard, he once suggested that they call Godard the French Oshima.

What Spinal said.

It's like you can feel the smugness radiating from your posts.

[Qrazy]

Seriously though guys all filmmakers remind me of the director Norodom Sihanouk. He pretty much shook the foundation of cinema. Everything that came before or after followed in his footsteps. Others know him as the former King of Cambodia.

[baby doll]

Yeah, grating post, man. Smug and condescending. They were just trying to contextualize Suzuki's style. No need to make blanket statements about cultural insensitivity.I don't think it's cultural insensitivity so much as a kind of shorthand. Suzuki made gangster pictures with lots of jump cuts, so let's compare his style to the Godard of À bout de souffle. That's a good basis for a comparison, but Qrazy is trying to make the point that the two directors are very similar, when their approach to the genre and the way of using jump cuts is very different. Suzuki was a studio workhorse who resented having to work with such lousy scripts, and violated the rules of continuity editing to make his films more interesting.

[transmogrifier]

Can I just say, I don't find baby doll smug at all, and I enjoy his contributions to the board, as it provokes discussion. He's just wrong a lot of the time, that's all.

[BuffaloWilder]

I don't think it's cultural insensitivity so much as a kind of shorthand. Suzuki made gangster pictures with lots of jump cuts, so let's compare his style to the Godard of À bout de souffle. That's a good basis for a comparison, but Qrazy is trying to make the point that the two directors are very similar, when their approach to the genre and the way of using jump cuts is very different. Suzuki was a studio workhorse who resented having to work with such lousy scripts, and violated the rules of continuity editing to make his films more interesting.

Yes, but your original post was about the way Americans can't talk about an Asian filmmaker without trying to find a Western counterpart.

That's silly. And, it really is.

[Qrazy]

I don't think it's cultural insensitivity so much as a kind of shorthand. Suzuki made gangster pictures with lots of jump cuts, so let's compare his style to the Godard of À bout de souffle. That's a good basis for a comparison, but Qrazy is trying to make the point that the two directors are very similar, when their approach to the genre and the way of using jump cuts is very different. Suzuki was a studio workhorse who resented having to work with such lousy scripts, and violated the rules of continuity editing to make his films more interesting.

Yes, they are not the same person. No. Fucking. Shit. But for many, many, many reasons which I have expressed repeatedly they are similar. My reasons had very little to do with them both using jump cuts.

[Qrazy]

That doesn't make it Godardian. Godard's less concerned with colors than he is with composition and montage.

I don't know what that has to do with anything, you initially brought up color. But now that it has been brought up, they do both use color in broad and bold ways (Pierrot le fou, Weekend, Contempt). Suzuki is also interested in composition and montage (as are most directors) so this part of the sentence strikes me as a non sequitur.


(One excuse could be the scene with Samuel Fuller in Pierrot le fou, but I still think Godard's movies are colorful because he doesn't want the movie to look ugly... the colors are still pretty realistic and don't distract like Suzuki's do).

I do not find Godard's use of color to be realistic, and distraction appears to be relative. I found his use of color in the film bold but I was not distracted from other elements of the film.


I think narrative (plot) is a last priority for Godard, which is why his haphazard editing styles and technical experimentations always are more important. They can potentially change the plot entirely. I think Godard's movies are less plot oriented than they are a mirror of modern times whether that's in Godard's life, in the lives of others or in politics.

OK...? Suzuki is also not primarily interested in plot, another similarity.


Okay, I'll agree with this, but that strikes me as more of a coincidence. Plenty of directors poke fun at genres.

But plenty of directors also don't so we're closing in here. This is something they share.


What is the aesthetic then?

I don't know what this means. Do you want me to describe this film's aesthetic, Suzuki's in general? Or to describe the thematic concerns behind the aesthetic of this particular film? The aesthetic is the audio-visual experience of the movies you've seen from him.


That last part is a very demeaning assumption. I don't think Godard had contempt for people who read less than him; his films usually contain humorous and personal references to philosophers and authors that he likes. Sometimes it amazes me to think that there are parts in a Godard movie that perhaps no one will ever understand except Godard. The amount of depth in a single one of his movies amazes me now that I think about it.

Demeaning or not, it is a feeling I get when I watch his films. Yes he also packs his films full of details and references but so do many great filmmakers, they just go about it in my eyes with more humility... or if you find that too harsh at least less overt referencing. I do not worship at the idol of GODard so if there are moments in his films which no one but he understands, I can't say I really care.


It still strikes me as a poor comparison. Anybody could probably attempt to compare Godard to many directors. Just because Godard and Suzuki experiment with montage and style doesn't make them similar directors. It could make them directors with similar views on how to make a movie, but I don't think the movies they make themselves are very similar at all.

No, just because they experiment does not make them similar, it is one similarity amongst the many I have brought up. A plethora of similarities is what makes them similar.


Don't forget A Woman Is a Woman! I see where you're coming from, I just don't think that it is the best comparison. It's certainly not out of left field or anything, but I think it's a comparison that not only feels like it could apply to several directors, but also tends to limit the individuality of the directors you are comparing.

Haven't seen it yet but I'll try to at some point. Personally I do not see that comparisons limit anything, even if they are completely unsubstantiated they still do not limit, they may merely be misleading. Tangentially I think it's valuable to know the influences of an author, director, etc... to get a sense of greater historical trends and movements. Art does not exist in isolation. That being said I'm not saying Godard directly had an effect on Suzuki or vice versa, although perhaps there was some effect, I don't know. I'm speaking of something different.

[Rowland]

Clipper Ship isn't the only one to hate on Tokyo Drifter to such a degree; there's also the utterly baffling Matt Lotti (http://www.cinematicthreads.com/review.php?id=654&ltr=T). Browse his site for an avalanche of wrong.

[MacGuffin]

I don't know what that has to do with anything, you initially brought up color. But now that it has been brought up, they do both use color in broad and bold ways (Pierrot le fou, Weekend, Contempt). Suzuki is also interested in composition and montage (as are most directors) so this part of the sentence strikes me as a non sequitur.

But Godard uses mostly natural color, Suzuki over-emphasizes to the point where it is distracting. Godard could have ordered yellow wallpaper for the scene in Pierrot le fou with Samuel Fuller, but he took a more natural approach. Suzuki's colors in Gate of Flesh and maybe Youth of the Beast (which I'm thinking may not have been as good as I originally thought it was; I called it a mere stylistic exercise) are more similar to Godard, but really it's a very arbitrary comparison in this way: many directors use bright colors. You wouldn't go comparing Godard to Bava.


I do not find Godard's use of color to be realistic, and distraction appears to be relative. I found his use of color in the film bold but I was not distracted from other elements of the film.

Maybe I wasn't distracted so much as I just thought it looked ugly and Suzuki put too much effort to set designs which all looked awful anyway. I'd like to hear an example of where Godard's color scheme is unrealistic to the extent of Suzuki's, because even in something like A Woman Is a Woman the colors are still nuanced into the story. They blend well. Suzuki's multiple wallpapers look like they were slapped on without rhyme or reason. We get about ten different colored sets in the movie that just appear to be that way for no reason. It's may be visually experimental, but it's by no mean profound like Godard's subtle eye for colorful compositions.


OK...? Suzuki is also not primarily interested in plot, another similarity.

I think Tokyo Drifter is a movie that is largely plot-based. It's a gangster movie after all with gangsters who all have a problem. The movie suffers from far too much attention to the style and too little attention to crafting a coherent narrative to go with the style (which Youth of the Beast partially succeeds in, if I remember correctly). Godard and Suzuki also differ because Godard is always saying something; Suzuki has, compared to Godard, very little to say about society or anything at all personal. Godard understands how to edit a movie to be a cohesive commentary. Suzuki can't edit Tokyo Drifter to be much of anything, so it is acknowledged as an exercise in gangster simplicity.


But plenty of directors also don't so we're closing in here. This is something they share.

Fair enough, but I'm saying that it's too little to be worth acknowledging.


I don't know what this means. Do you want me to describe this film's aesthetic, Suzuki's in general? Or to describe the thematic concerns behind the aesthetic of this particular film? The aesthetic is the audio-visual experience of the movies you've seen from him.

You haven't really told me at all why you like the movie. All I see is a bunch of morons yelling and shooting at each other.


Demeaning or not, it is a feeling I get when I watch his films. Yes he also packs his films full of details and references but so do many great filmmakers, they just go about it in my eyes with more humility... or if you find that too harsh at least less overt referencing. I do not worship at the idol of GODard so if there are moments in his films which no one but he understands, I can't say I really care.

Well, Godard's work is very literary. I'm far from being as well-read as Godard (who supposedly reads three books a day, if I remember reading that correctly), but it never strikes me as a problem when I watch his movies.


I don't know what that has to do with anything, you initially brought up color. But now that it has been brought up, they do both use color in broad and bold ways (Pierrot le fou, Weekend, Contempt). Suzuki is also interested in composition and montage (as are most directors) so this part of the sentence strikes me as a non sequitur.

But Godard uses mostly natural color, Suzuki over-emphasizes to the point where it is distracting. Godard could have ordered yellow wallpaper for the scene in Pierrot le fou with Samuel Fuller, but he took a more natural approach. Suzuki's colors in Gate of Flesh and maybe Youth of the Beast (which I'm thinking may not have been as good as I originally thought it was; I called it a mere stylistic exercise) are more similar to Godard, but really it's a very arbitrary comparison in this way: many directors use bright colors. You wouldn't go comparing Godard to Bava.


I do not find Godard's use of color to be realistic, and distraction appears to be relative. I found his use of color in the film bold but I was not distracted from other elements of the film.

Maybe I wasn't distracted so much as I just thought it looked ugly and Suzuki put too much effort to set designs which all looked awful anyway. I'd like to hear an example of where Godard's color scheme is unrealistic to the extent of Suzuki's, because even in something like A Woman Is a Woman the colors are still nuanced into the story. They blend well. Suzuki's multiple wallpapers look like they were slapped on without rhyme or reason. We get about ten different colored sets in the movie that just appear to be that way for no reason. It's may be visually experimental, but it's by no mean profound like Godard's subtle eye for colorful compositions.


OK...? Suzuki is also not primarily interested in plot, another similarity.

I think Tokyo Drifter is a movie that is largely plot-based. It's a gangster movie after all with gangsters who all have a problem. The movie suffers from far too much attention to the style and too little attention to crafting a coherent narrative to go with the style (which Youth of the Beast partially succeeds in, if I remember correctly). Godard and Suzuki also differ because Godard is always saying something; Suzuki has, compared to Godard, very little to say about society or anything at all personal. Godard understands how to edit a movie to be a cohesive commentary. Suzuki can't edit Tokyo Drifter to be much of anything, so it is acknowledged as an exercise in gangster simplicity.


But plenty of directors also don't so we're closing in here. This is something they share.

Fair enough, but I'm saying that it's too little to be worth acknowledging.


I don't know what this means. Do you want me to describe this film's aesthetic, Suzuki's in general? Or to describe the thematic concerns behind the aesthetic of this particular film? The aesthetic is the audio-visual experience of the movies you've seen from him.

You haven't really told me at all why you like the movie. All I see is a bunch of morons yelling and shooting at each other.


No, just because they experiment does not make them similar, it is one similarity amongst the many I have brought up. A plethora of similarities is what makes them similar.

But the plethora of similarities mostly fall short. Godard makes sociopolitical movies with an original technological philosophy. Suzuki makes gangster movies with little to no understanding on how to evoke any sort of emotion (if you tell me that you thought Tokyo Drifter was at all suspenseful, I'll begin to think you're lying) or any technical awareness. Godard is not only a far more prolific filmmaker, he's also an important filmmaker whose structural and technical philosophies showed that movies of all genres can be profound and at the same time vastly entertaining. Tokyo Drifter is neither of these.


Haven't seen it yet but I'll try to at some point. Personally I do not see that comparisons limit anything, even if they are completely unsubstantiated they still do not limit, they may merely be misleading. Tangentially I think it's valuable to know the influences of an author, director, etc... to get a sense of greater historical trends and movements. Art does not exist in isolation. That being said I'm not saying Godard directly had an effect on Suzuki or vice versa, although perhaps there was some effect, I don't know. I'm speaking of something different.

I can see how they may have a similar approach to filmmaking, but as I said above, the results are by no means similar. For the record, Godard was influenced by classical Hollywood filmmaking and Alfred Hitchcock. I think this is interesting because the classical style can be seen largely as a blueprint for how he works. Of course, by the end of the movie, the style becomes completely different. With Suzuki, it feels like, as baby doll says, he's given a bad script, he tries to make some visually appealing sets with the little money he was probably given and fails. So he tries to pull off something in the editing room, and instead the story becomes even more incoherent and the style is lost because of poor continuity editing. The movie then becomes worthless.

[Qrazy]

Ahh so long, I'll read it but let's discuss something else now.

[MacGuffin]

Ahh so long, I'll read it but let's discuss something else now.

Have you seen Daisies?

[Qrazy]

Have you seen Daisies?

Yeah. I liked it to an extent.

[MacGuffin]

Yeah.

Also: let's discuss slow motion and zoom-ins. When are they okay to use (if at all)?

[Ezee E]

Rewatched Minority Report today on a whim. Love it, even with the Indiana Jones chases, and the Samantha Morten halo effect at the end.

The ending still... Major flaw.

The creation of technology (some of which is coming into effect) and the seamless special effects are pretty remarkable though.

[Raiders]

The ending still... Major flaw.

Why?

[Spinal]

Also: let's discuss slow motion and zoom-ins. When are they okay to use (if at all)?

Not too fond of slo-mo typically. Zoom-ins amuse me though.

[Duncan]

The opening of The Conversation is a great zoom.

[Sycophant]

I used to be anti-zoom, but then I learned to stop worrying and appreciate a good zoom. Then there's slow-motion which can be abused, but is not inherently bad.

[Raiders]

I think Peckinpah mastered the slow-motion shots, which placed emphasis on the result of the violence as opposed to the act itself as many modern action films are so fond of doing. It seemed more mournful and sad than attempting any sort of "cool" factor.

[Sven]

Man, I rewatched Minority Report a few months ago and I thought it was just dismal. The effects were still incredible, and there were a few well-structured shots and sequences, but it is too riddled with contradictory plot points and inexplicable character motivations for me to accept it.

[Sven]

I used to be anti-zoom, but then I learned to stop worrying and appreciate a good zoom.

This was always your least likable trait.

I am terribly fond of both and don't understand why anyone would suggest there is anything inherently wrong with them.

[MacGuffin]

I prefer slow zoom-ins to the really fast ones. The worst use of slow motion is during war scenes.

[transmogrifier]

The only technique I have never liked in any situation at any time is that stuttering slow-motion thing Wong Kar-Wai loves so much, and that Peter Jackson does on occasions. It has never worked, never will work, and should be banned from ever being used again.

As for other techniques, it pretty much depends on what it is being used for, slow motion and zooms included.

[MacGuffin]

I am terribly fond of both and don't understand why anyone would suggest there is anything inherently wrong with them.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with them either, but they can easily be misused like any other technique, perhaps more than others.

[MacGuffin]

The only technique I have never liked in any situation at any time is that stuttering slow-motion thing Wong Kar-Wai loves so much, and that Peter Jackson does on occasions. It has never worked, never will work, and should be banned from ever being used again.

I think the proper term for that is "slow shutter".

[Sven]

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with them either, but they can easily be misused like any other technique, perhaps more than others.

"...if at all."

You did say that. Still, I knew the spirit in which you were asking.

[MacGuffin]

"...if ever."

You did say that. Still, I knew the spirit in which you were asking.

I have my reservations. Jess Franco justifies his use of zoom-ins by saying that he likes jazz music a lot, and would consider himself to be a jazz director, or something like that.

[transmogrifier]

I think the proper term for that is "slow shutter".

Now I know how to fill in the blank of "Oh, for fuck's sake, it's that fucking ________ shit again."

[Sven]

I have my reservations. Jess Franco justifies his use of zoom-ins by saying that he likes jazz music a lot, and would consider himself to be a jazz director, or something like that.

That seems as good a reason as any.

[Sycophant]

This was always your least likable trait.

Glad that's cleared up! Sorry for that one... or twelve frustrating "arguments" we had.


I am terribly fond of both and don't understand why anyone would suggest there is anything inherently wrong with them.

I think my beef with zoom was mostly that it was something I associated with video, specifically home video/camcorders. It struck me as something amateurish--something, really, that I was doing in my movies when I was 16. But I don't necessarily think that way anymore.

[Ezee E]

but it is too riddled with contradictory plot points and inexplicable character motivations for me to accept it.

This basically all happens in the end. As well as the speed of Cruise's wife being able to revive Cruise, get him to the conference all within one hour. To me, it's a minor flaw, and I still find it pretty amazing. Just a flaw.

Anyways, some zooms are strange to me. Kubrick's quick uses of them in A Clockwork Orange is one that sticks out to me. Slow motion I honestly don't think about anymore as it's used so often. Raging Bull's use of it when LaMotta notices men hitting on his wife is a fantastic use.

[Grouchy]

I love slow shutter shots. They bring up a sense of time distortion that no slow-motion attempted on post-production can reproduce.

And Blindness was a very good film. Don't really see what has pissed off so many about it.

[Ezee E]

And Blindness was a very good film. Don't really see what has pissed off so many about it.

Hard to watch factor?

[transmogrifier]

I love slow shutter shots. They bring up a sense of time distortion that no slow-motion attempted on post-production can reproduce.

The only distortion they bring about for me is throwing me straight out of the movie, wondering what the hell the director is thinking. It is a useless technique.

[baby doll]

Yes, but your original post was about the way Americans can't talk about an Asian filmmaker without trying to find a Western counterpart.

That's silly. And, it really is.I'm pretty sure I said westerners (which would also include Canada and Western Europe), not Americans. And it's not that we can't talk about Asian filmmakers without trying to find a western counterpart, so as much as it makes it easier to describe them. If you want to tell somebody who Hayao Miyazaki is in under five seconds, you can say he's the Japanese Walt Disney.

[Grouchy]

http://i.getmovies.ru/covers/47712_w464_h260_fc.jpg

So, having exhausted all of Monty Python's Flying Circus, all their official movies and even the live Hollywood Bowl performance, I now have to turn to the stuff they made afterwards. I started with Erik the Viking, directed by Terry Jones and with a John Cleese role. The film is like Python aimed at children and it's definitively a product of the '80s. I feel like, even if individual jokes sometimes don't work here, the overall theory behind the jokes is awesome - the Christian missionary doesn't see the dragon because he doesn't believe in it, all Viking insults revolve around ancestors not being in Valhalla, and, best of all, the Norse Gods turn out to be powerful and careless little children. Anyway, for any fan of logical inversion comedy, this is worth checking out once. I saw the 2006 DVD which is heavily edited by Jones from 100 to 75 minutes. Although I think 75 is about the adequate lenght for something like this, I'd be curious to know what compelled him to cut no less than 25 minutes of stuff.

[megladon8]

I would describe him as "the guy who did Sprited Away and Princess Mononoke".

[baby doll]

Hard to watch factor?That and the stupid factor. At one point they show that Prime Minister Sandra Oh is also blind, so why are the other characters still in quarantine?

[baby doll]

I would describe him as "the guy who did Sprited Away and Princess Mononoke".Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that you're talking to some one who hasn't seen his work and may know nothing about it.

[megladon8]

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that you're talking to some one who hasn't seen his work and may know nothing about it.


I still don't see how this applies only to westerners talking about Asian filmmakers. People often describe things by relating it to something else, and I don't see the problem with it. It's a good way to get someone on the same page as you if they - as you said - begin the conversation knowing nothing of what you're trying to describe to them.

If someone is looking for a light beer to buy where I work, I'll say "well, this beer here is similar to a Miller Genuine Draft" or "this is similar to Coors".

[Grouchy]

Hard to watch factor?
Yeah, but why the hell do they think that makes the film bad?

[Grouchy]

That and the stupid factor. At one point they show that Prime Minister Sandra Oh is also blind, so why are the other characters still in quarantine?
I'd assume the Prime Minister was also inmediately quarantined in some less sordid facility.

[MacGuffin]

It's funny how I used to feel like I'd never get into Asian cinema two years or so ago and now I have a strong appreciation for that brand of subtle, power cinema, especially Japanese cinema. It's interesting how my tastes have evolved over time as I've come to appreciate more and more.

[Sven]

It's funny how I used to feel like I'd never get into Asian cinema two years or so ago and now I have a strong appreciation for that brand of subtle, power cinema, especially Japanese cinema. It's interesting how my tastes have evolved over time as I've come to appreciate more and more.

Vienna waits for you.

[Spun Lepton]

http://i.getmovies.ru/covers/47712_w464_h260_fc.jpg

So, having exhausted all of Monty Python's Flying Circus, all their official movies and even the live Hollywood Bowl performance, I now have to turn to the stuff they made afterwards. I started with Erik the Viking, directed by Terry Jones and with a John Cleese role. The film is like Python aimed at children and it's definitively a product of the '80s.

Aimed at children, except for that whole business at the beginning when he's talking to the woman about raping her. (Or was that scene one of the ones that was cut?)

[MacGuffin]

Vienna waits for you.

I don't understand that joke. Obviously, and I'm thinking openly, every rose (country) has its thorns (bad movies), but Asian movies, once I could understand how they approached their own culture and understood the culture itself, I could find a certain beauty that simply doesn't exist in the world views of other countries' cinemas.

[Winston*]

Pssh. Japanese cinema is all just people standing next to each other staring at bodies of water.

[MacGuffin]

Ugetsu is probably one of my favorite Japanese movies. I can't wait to get Sansho the Bailiff and Gion Bayashi in the mail.

[baby doll]

I'd assume the Prime Minister was also inmediately quarantined in some less sordid facility.By that point, you'd think they would've figured out that the quarantine wasn't doing any good.

I also thought it was silly when the guy says if he finds the lady with the sunglasses, he's gonna get even, and she takes off the sun glasses as if anyone was going to see them (or if by chance, he happened to touch her face, he would recognize the design by touch).

[Grouchy]

Aimed at children, except for that whole business at the beginning when he's talking to the woman about raping her. (Or was that scene one of the ones that was cut?)
No, that was in. Still... very mild stuff. No skin shown, it's all a dialogue joke.

[Watashi]

Anyone seen In the Loop?

Great stuff there.

[Grouchy]

By that point, you'd think they would've figured out that the quarantine wasn't doing any good.
Huh... Same way, I dunno, the US government figured blacklisting workers during the '50s wasn't doing the country any good? Or concentration camps? Paranoia is sort of the theme of the movie.


I also thought it was silly when the guy says if he finds the lady with the sunglasses, he's gonna get even, and she takes off the sun glasses as if anyone was going to see them (or if by chance, he happened to touch her face, he would recognize the design by touch).
Ok, ok, whatever, but those are tiny plot holes. What did you find about the movie that made it so bad in your eyes?

[Dead & Messed Up]

I know I'm a bit late to the discussion, but as for zooms...

I'm not a big fan, because a zooming camera lens is moving through fields of action in a way the human eye cannot. Most all other camera motion - pan, dolly, tilt, focus, etc. have some connection to how we naturally perceive. But a zoom immediately takes me away from the diegetic goings-on and forces me to view the film as an object. I lose that feeling of being "involved" or "swept away." Differing shutter speeds and high frame-rate slow motion also bother me.

Zooms can be used well, and, of course, if the purpose of the shot is to distance me and make me consider the film itself, the presence of cameras and filmmakers, then it's less of a problem.

I hope that made sense.

[B-side]

I think Peckinpah mastered the slow-motion shots, which placed emphasis on the result of the violence as opposed to the act itself as many modern action films are so fond of doing. It seemed more mournful and sad than attempting any sort of "cool" factor.

Indeed. Apparently this worked to the opposite effect on a lot of audiences back when The Wild Bunch was released. Critics accused him of glorifying violence.

[Bosco B Thug]

Zooms are the best. Slow ones. The Robert Altman kind. The Joe Wright in Pride and Prejudice kind. Don't you think a technique should be judged by if it's ever used awesomely? And the zoom's been innumerable times been used awesomely.

[balmakboor]

Zooms are the best. Slow ones. The Robert Altman kind. The Joe Wright in Pride and Prejudice kind. Don't you think a technique should be judged by if it's ever used awesomely? And the zoom's been innumerable times been used awesomely.

Have you ever seen the final shot of Alice's Restaurant? Pretty amazing. I think you'd love it.

[Rowland]

Yeah, I don't understand the hate for zooms at all. They can be (and often are) applied as artfully and expressively as any other technique filmmakers have at their disposal. And even goofy zooms such as those someone like Mario Bava often indulges in have their charm.

[Ezee E]

Although I complained about some zooms in A Clockwork Orange, the zooms in Barry Lyndon are pretty amazing.

[Milky Joe]

The Graduate, which I saw for the first time last night, has some lovely zooms.

[Bosco B Thug]

I think zooms may qualify as my favorite cinematic technique.


Clipper Ship isn't the only one to hate on Tokyo Drifter to such a degree; there's also the utterly baffling Matt Lotti (http://www.cinematicthreads.com/review.php?id=654&ltr=T). Browse his site for an avalanche of wrong. Guy seems difficult.


Have you ever seen the final shot of Alice's Restaurant? Pretty amazing. I think you'd love it. Nope. It would be my 2nd Arthur Penn, though, and I do like Bonnie and Clyde.

[Qrazy]

I hate slow static zooms. Zooms coupled with tracking shots can be amazing or just brief or rapid zooms can achieve a quality effect... as long as they're not whip zooms from extended long shots to close-ups those fucking suck.

Slow-motion can be over used and I dislike slow/fast/slow but slo-mo can be used very well. Tarkovsky uses it very well, recently I saw it used exquisitely in Letters from a Dead Man. No problem with slo-mo unless it's pure masturbation.

[B-side]

I hate slow static zooms. Zooms coupled with tracking shots can be amazing or just brief or rapid zooms can achieve a quality effect... as long as they're not whip zooms from extended long shots to close-ups those fucking suck.

If you hate slow, static zooms you might hate Angelopoulos. His camera work is amazing, but consists largely of slow zooms and pans. But then again, his camera is rarely still, so you can probably ignore what I just said. It moves very, very slowly and meticulously. Very Tarkovsky-esque.

[Boner M]

Venice lineup announced. Lots of films I didn't know about. An 84-minute Rivette film?!?!?

In competion

FATIH AKIN - SOUL KITCHEN
Germania, 99′
Adam Bousdoukos, Moritz Bleibtreu, Birol Uenel

GIUSEPPE CAPOTONDI - LA DOPPIA ORA
Italia, 95′
Ksenia Rappoport, Filippo Timi, Giorgio Colangeli

POU-SOI CHEANG - YI NGOI (ACCIDENT)
Cina-Hong Kong, 89′
Louis Koo, Richie Jen, Michelle Ye

PATRICE CHÉREAU - PERSÉCUTION
Francia, 100′
Romain Duris, Charlotte Gainsbourg, Jean Hugues Anglade, Alex Descas

FRANCESCA COMENCINI - LO SPAZIO BIANCO
Italia, 96′
Margherita Buy, Guido Caprino, Salvatore Cantalupo

CLAIRE DENIS - WHITE MATERIAL
Francia, 100′
Isabelle Huppert, Nicolas Duvauchelle, Isaach De Bankolé

JACO VAN DORMAEL - MR. NOBODY
Francia,
Jared Leto, Diane Kruger, Sarah Polley

TOM FORD - A SINGLE MAN
Usa, 99′
Colin Firth, Julianne Moore, Matthew Goode

JESSICA HAUSNER - LOURDES
Austria, 99′
Sylvie Testud, Léa Seydoux, Bruno Todeschini

WERNER HERZOG - BAD LIEUTENANT: PORT OF CALL NEW ORLEANS
Usa, 121′
Nicolas Cage, Eva Mendes, Val Kilmer, Michael Shannon

JOHN HILLCOAT - THE ROAD
Usa, 112′
Charlize Theron, Viggo Mortensen, Guy Pearce, Robert Duvall

VIMUKHTI JAYASUNDARA - AHASIN WETEI (BETWEEN TWO WORLDS)
Sri Lanka, 80′
Thusitha Laknath, Kaushalya Fernando, Huang Lu

AHMED MAHER - EL MOSAFER (THE TRAVELLER)
Egitto, 125′
Omar Sharif, Cyrine AbdelNour, Khaled El Nabawy

SAMUEL MAOZ - LEVANON (LEBANON)
Israele, 92′
Yoav Donat, Itay Tiran, Oshri Cohen

MICHAEL MOORE - CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY
Usa, 120′
(documentario)

SHIRIN NESHAT - ZANAN-E BEDUN-E MARDAN (WOMEN WITHOUT MEN)
Germania, 95′
Pegah Feridon, Shabnam Tolouei, Orsi Tóth, Arita Shahrzad

MICHELE PLACIDO - IL GRANDE SOGNO
Italia, 101′
Riccardo Scamarcio, Jasmine Trinca, Luca Argentero, Laura Morante, Silvio Orlando

JACQUES RIVETTE - 36 VUES DU PIC SAINT LOUP
Francia, 84′
Jane Birkin, Sergio Castellitto, André Marcon, Jacques Bonnaffé

GEORGE ROMERO - SURVIVAL OF THE DEAD
Usa, 90′
Alan Van Sprang, Kenneth Walsh, Devon Bostick, Kathleen Munroe

TODD SOLONDZ - LIFE DURING WARTIME
Usa, 92′
Ciarán Hinds, Emma Hinz, Charlotte Rampling

GIUSEPPE TORNATORE - BAARÃŒA
Italia, 150′
Francesco Scianna, Margareth Madè, Raoul Bova, Enrico Lo Verso, Michele Placido, Vincenzo Salemme, Monica Bellucci, Laura Chiatti

SHINYA TSUKAMOTO - TETSUO THE BULLET MAN
Giappone, 80′
Eric Bossick, Akiko Monou, Shinya Tsukamoto

YONFAN - LEI WANGZI (PRINCE OF TEARS)
Cina - Taiwan, Hong Kong, 120′
Chih-Wei Fan, Terri Kwan, Joseph Chang, Kenneth Tsang

Out of Competion:
JAUME BALAGUERÓ, PACO PLAZA - REC 2
Spagna, 85′
Manuela Velasco, Jonathan Mellor, Andreas Ros Mire, Ariel Casas, Pablo Rosso

FRUIT CHAN, CUI JIAN - CHENGDU, WO AI NI (CHENGDU, I LOVE YOU)
Cina, 78′
Tao Guo, Anya Wu, Weiei Tan

JOE DANTE - THE HOLE
Usa, 98′
Chris Massoglia, Haley Bennett, Natham Gamble, Teri Polo, Bruce Dern

ABEL FERRARA - NAPOLI NAPOLI NAPOLI
Italia, 102′
Luca Lionello, Ernesto Mahieux, Shanyn Leigh, Giuseppe Lanzetta

ANTOINE FUQUA - BROOKLYN’S FINEST (NEW VERSION)
Usa, 140′
Richard Gere, Don Cheadle, Ethan Hawke, Wesley Snipes, Ellen Barkin

GRANT HESLOV - THE MEN WHO STARE AT GOATS
Usa, 90′
George Clooney, Ewan McGregor, Jeff Bridges, Kevin Spacey

ANURAG KASHYAP - GULAAL
India, 140′
K K Menon, Aditya Srivastav, Piyush Mishra, Mahi Gill

ANURAG KASHYAP - DEV D
India, 144′
Abhay Deol, Mahie Gill, Kalki Koechlin

JOHN LASSETER - TOY STORY 3-D
Usa, 80′
(animazione)

JOHN LASSETER, LEE UNKRICH, ASH BRANNON - TOY STORY 2 3-D
Usa, 94′
(animazione)

FRANCESCO MASELLI - ANNI LUCE
Italia, 91′
Roberto Herlitzka, Ennio Fantastichini, Valentina Carnelutti, Arnoldo FoÃ*, Lucia Poli

GIULIANO MONTALDO - L’ORO DI CUBA
Italia, 74′
(documentario)

YOUSRY NASRALLAH - EHKY YA SCHAHRAZAD (SCHEHERAZADE, TELL ME A STORY)
Egitto, 135′
Mona Zakki, Mahmoud Hemeda, Hassan El Raddad, Sawsan Badr

ROMAN PASKA, JOHN TURTURRO - PROVE PER UNA TRAGEDIA SICILIANA
Italia, 77′
(documentario)

MEHRA RAKEYSH OMPRAKASH - DELHI-6
India, 110′
Om Puri, Waheeda Rehman, Abhishek Bachchan, Sonam Kapoor, Rishi Kapoor

RINTARO - YONA YONA PENGUIN
Giappone, 87′
(animazione)

STEVEN SODERBERGH - THE INFORMANT!
Usa, 108′
Matt Damon, Melanie Lynskey, Scott Bakula, Joel McHale

OLIVER STONE - SOUTH OF THE BORDER
Usa, 102′
(documentario)

NICOLAS WINDING REFN - VALHALLA RISING
Danimarca, 90′
Mads Mikkelsen, Alexander Morton, Stewat Porter

[B-side]

Some nice stuff there. New Solondz and Tsukamoto films? Cool.

[Qrazy]

If you hate slow, static zooms you might hate Angelopoulos. His camera work is amazing, but consists largely of slow zooms and pans. But then again, his camera is rarely still, so you can probably ignore what I just said. It moves very, very slowly and meticulously. Very Tarkovsky-esque.

Well they can work too it just depends how they're used in relation to the staging. Visconti's aesthetic in Death in Venice for instance, does not work.

[Qrazy]

Some nice stuff there. New Solondz? Cool.

Is it?

[B-side]

Is it?

Indeed. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808526/)

[Qrazy]

Indeed. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808526/)

Flarb.

Let's go spam Soitgoes to watch and review his film.

[B-side]

Flarb.

Let's go spam Soitgoes to watch and review his film.

He is up next, isn't he? Let's do it.

[Stay Puft]

Venice loves Tsukamoto. I wish Toronto was the same (would kill to see the new Tetsuo in theatres).

[Ezee E]

New Fuqua. Never even knew he was up to something.

[MacGuffin]

Dolls was great. I'm thinking of making Sonatine my next stop with Takeshi Kitano.

[soitgoes...]

Flarb.

Let's go spam Soitgoes to watch and review his film.


He is up next, isn't he? Let's do it.

Say the people who take up to a week to watch theirs...

[MacGuffin]

I think when it comes down to it: it's not the technique, but how it is used.

[Rowland]

I don't care what anyone says, Tremors is a masterpiece of B-movie filmmaking. Some of the most convincing effects in all of monster-flick history combined with an altogether appealing ensemble, consistently funny and smart writing, and sturdy direction by Underwood make for a deliriously entertaining ode to a past generation of horror movies. Speaking of which, whatever happened to Underwood, seriously? Pluto Nash?

And for the record, while it doesn't nearly equal its resplendent forebear, Tremors 2: Aftershocks is one of the best DTV sequels of all-time.

[BuffaloWilder]

On zooms and slow-motion sequences -

Zooms can work well, but I agree with DAMU, primarily. If a work is trying to be cold and analytical, then I can see some merit in it's usage, but otherwise all it does is snap me out of the proceedings - unless it's integrated smoothly within the context of a larger shot.

Slow-motion sequences I like, when they're used well. But, what I'd like to see is someone do a slow-motion sequence that's so pulled back that it starts to become abstract - don't so a lot of that.

[Qrazy]

Say the people who take up to a week to watch theirs...

Not now that I have the internet. Although I can't procure Whity for some reason both the Karagarga and the more generic torrent get stuck. Might have to change that one or leave it for last.

[Rowland]

Too bad Netflix doesn't have Les vampires.Fuuuuck.

[Qrazy]

A Boy and His Dog - What a strange, unique film this was. It has a lot of flaws and the filmmaking isn't that spectacular but it's wonderfully original (I realize it's based on a book).

[soitgoes...]

Not now that I have the internet. Although I can't procure Whity for some reason both the Karagarga and the more generic torrent get stuck. Might have to change that one or leave it for last.
I'm just joshing you. I've actually just started my next movie. I should have something posted later tonight. :insert yellow winky emoticon that has apparently died and been replaced by strange looking blue guy:

[MacGuffin]

Fuuuuck.

I'm not sure if you're region-free, but Artificial Eye has what's supposed to be a fantastic set out for the movie.

[Qrazy]

I'm just joshing you. I've actually just started my next movie. I should have something posted later tonight. :insert yellow winky emoticon that has apparently died and been replaced by strange looking blue guy:

:confused:

[Spinal]

:confused:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/joel_harmon/dr-manhattan.jpg

[Qrazy]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/joel_harmon/dr-manhattan.jpg

A new new series of smilies?

[B-side]

Not now that I have the internet. Although I can't procure Whity for some reason both the Karagarga and the more generic torrent get stuck. Might have to change that one or leave it for last.

Noooo. It must be seen.

[MacGuffin]

Jafar Panahi, the director of Crimson Gold, has been arrested. (http://www.avclub.com/articles/iranian-filmmaker-jafar-panahi-reportedly-arrested,31058/)

[Skitch]

The only technique I have never liked in any situation at any time is that stuttering slow-motion thing Wong Kar-Wai loves so much, and that Peter Jackson does on occasions. It has never worked, never will work, and should be banned from ever being used again.


I concur.

[Skitch]

Dante 01 was interesting.

[kuehnepips]

Weekend:
Brüno

[Skitch]

Weekend:
Brüno

Yikes.

[NickGlass]

Anyone seen In the Loop?

Great stuff there.

I plan to next week, hopefully as a double feature with The Hurt Locker. At the very least, the juxtaposition will be interesting.

[Ivan Drago]

WERNER HERZOG - BAD LIEUTENANT: PORT OF CALL NEW ORLEANS
Usa, 121′
Nicolas Cage, Eva Mendes, Val Kilmer, Michael Shannon

....Interesting, to say the least.

[baby doll]

Huh... Same way, I dunno, the US government figured blacklisting workers during the '50s wasn't doing the country any good? Or concentration camps? Paranoia is sort of the theme of the movie.

Ok, ok, whatever, but those are tiny plot holes. What did you find about the movie that made it so bad in your eyes?Mainly how unpleasant it was on so many levels. It was like they went out of their way to make everything as ugly as possible: the style (were they trying to make us blind with all those fade to whites?), the art direction (as if the main location weren't grimy enough to begin with, apparently being blind means you can't hold it in and have to go to the bathroom just anywhere), and of course the film's Lord of the Flies view of human nature where, if you isolate a bunch of people in an allegory, they'll turn really mean.

[Grouchy]

Mainly how unpleasant it was on so many levels. It was like they went out of their way to make everything as ugly as possible: the style (were they trying to make us blind with all those fade to whites?), the art direction (as if the main location weren't grimy enough to begin with, apparently being blind means you can't hold it in and have to go to the bathroom just anywhere), and of course the film's Lord of the Flies view of human nature where, if you isolate a bunch of people in an allegory, they'll turn really mean.
I guess it's too adult a film for some people to stomach.

So, I saw Michael Mann's Thief, and it's hard to believe it's his feature film debut. His assured hand at creating tension and the style he's now famous for are all there. James Caan's performance is memorable, specially in a really touching scene he shares with Willie Nelson. The villain is awesomely cast - unbelievably evil smirk. I don't know what else to say about this movie except that it really thrilled me. I watched the whole thing in a daze without pausing it once. It feels like a study for Heat, but in a way, without being better, this movie benefits because it's a "small" thriller so it doesn't feel as bloated and it has time to explore the protagonist more thoroughly. I quite liked, for example, that he decides to fall in love almost abstractly, because he feels it's the very thing his life needs.

[baby doll]

I guess it's too adult a film for some people to stomach.No, I don't think that's it, unless pessimism and over-exposed film stock equal maturity.

[Mara]

My sister and I got talking yesterday about the massive conspiracy within film to misrepresent childbirth. She claimed it was similar to the way films usually show people committing suicide wrong, in order to prevent people from actually doing it.

(I sat with my sister through about two hours of her labor, which was roughly akin to watching a very tired puppy getting hit by a truck every three to four minutes.)

So, for those who have witnessed/experienced childbirth, are there any films you think represent it accurately?

[Grouchy]

My sister and I got talking yesterday about the massive conspiracy within film to misrepresent childbirth. She claimed it was similar to the way films usually show people committing suicide wrong, in order to prevent people from actually doing it.

(I sat with my sister through about two hours of her labor, which was roughly akin to watching a very tired puppy getting hit by a truck every three to four minutes.)

So, for those who have witnessed/experienced childbirth, are there any films you think represent it accurately?
Well, it doesn't show the entire process, but She Hate Me shows the culmination in actual childbirth footage. I haven't seen it but I've been told that Mo' Better Blues does the same. Or Crooklyn, I forget which.

I thought Children of Men's childbirth was pretty crude/realistic, but then again, I've never seen a real one. How long does it usually last? An average.

[Mara]

I thought Children of Men's childbirth was pretty crude/realistic, but then again, I've never seen a real one. How long does it usually last? An average.

10-12 hours for a first baby. My sister was in labor for 28 hours. EDIT: This is for LABOR. Childbirth doesn't last that long-- it's supposed to be between 15 minutes (insane) to 3 hours. My friend Genevieve was in childbirth for six hours, but that's very unusual. I'm glad I wasn't present for the actual childbirth part of the process-- I probably would have run home and superglued my cervix shut.

I had heard that Children of Men was gruesome, but I didn't think it was so bad when I watched it. I heard Knocked Up was, too, but I didn't see it. Comedy, right? How bad could it have been?

[transmogrifier]

Question: why do we need movies to accurately depict childbirth? Why?

[Mara]

Question: why do we need movies to accurately depict childbirth? Why?

Trans craves the lie.

[Grouchy]

10-12 hours for a first baby. My sister was in labor for 28 hours.

I had heard that Children of Men was gruesome, but I didn't think it was so bad when I watched it. I heard Knocked Up was, too, but I didn't see it. Comedy, right? How bad could it have been?
I guess it's something folks are particularly sensitive to. I also didn't think it was all that gruesome but it was well done. Near the end there are a few seconds where you're led to believe the kid is dead and then he starts crying. On first viewing I think that got me, but I've seen the movie many times and I found that too manipulative and pointless.

[Grouchy]

Question: why do we need movies to accurately depict childbirth? Why?
Well, I guess if you've witnessed it or had the thing in real life, I think seeing something too fake could take you out of the moment.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I don't really think it's possible to show an accurate depiction of childbirth in a standard two hour film.

[Russ]

I'm still too chicken to watch Brakhage's Window Water Baby Moving, even though I've had the DVD for years now. It took me forever to gather the courage to watch The Act of Seeing With One's Own Eyes (which really wasn't as bad as I feared, once you get used to the idea of watching autopsies being performed).

[Grouchy]

I'm still too chicken to watch Brakhage's Window Water Baby Moving, even though I've had the DVD for years now. It took me forever to gather the courage to watch The Act of Seeing With One's Own Eyes (which really wasn't as bad as I feared, once you get used to the idea of watching autopsies being performed).
I forgot all about the Brakhage. I've seen it. There you go, Mara.

[Grouchy]

EDIT: This is for LABOR. Childbirth doesn't last that long-- it's supposed to be between 15 minutes (insane) to 3 hours. My friend Genevieve was in childbirth for six hours, but that's very unusual. I'm glad I wasn't present for the actual childbirth part of the process-- I probably would have run home and superglued my cervix shut.
Heheh. Even then, 15 minutes of childbirth on film would be a huge attack on the senses. There should be a good pay-off to that... Like, the baby's a huge monster and it swallows the doctors.

[transmogrifier]

Trans craves the lie.

....and happy to do so. :)

[baby doll]

I'm still too chicken to watch Brakhage's Window Water Baby Moving, even though I've had the DVD for years now. It took me forever to gather the courage to watch The Act of Seeing With One's Own Eyes (which really wasn't as bad as I feared, once you get used to the idea of watching autopsies being performed).Let me see if I understand this: you're okay watching autopsies, but childbirth is too disgusting to be represented on film?

[Russ]

Let me see if I understand this: you're okay watching autopsies, but childbirth is too disgusting to be represented on film?

No. Please don't put words in my mouth.

To elaborate: Both events make me a tad squeamish. Why I chose to watch one over the other, I don't know. Having done so, however, and to less effect than I had imagined, makes me think his childbirth film won't have as much of an impact as I might imagine.

Just because it's tough viewing for me doesn't make either one disgusting. Where the hell did you get that from?

[transmogrifier]

I can't see a situation where we really need to see accurate childbirth though. Much like when mainstream movies portray sex, I don't need to see actual penetration, nor when someone goes to the bathroom, I don't need to see the result, nor when someone.....etc.

[[ETM]]

I probably would have run home and superglued my cervix shut.

For some reason, I find this image to be way more disturbing than any of the stuff you guys are talking about. Mind needs to not go to certain places.

[Skitch]

My mom was an RN in the birthing ward for years...she gets livid everytime a movie shows a woman screaming bloody murder while giving birth. She says its not like that at all.

[baby doll]

No. Please don't put words in my mouth.

To elaborate: Both events make me a tad squeamish. Why I chose to watch one over the other, I don't know. Having done so, however, and to less effect than I had imagined, makes me think his childbirth film won't have as much of an impact as I might imagine.

Just because it's tough viewing for me doesn't make either one disgusting. Where the hell did you get that from?I was only kidding, dude.

[Russ]

I was only kidding, dude.
That's what smilies are for. Dude.

[baby doll]

I can't see a situation where we really need to see accurate childbirth though. Much like when mainstream movies portray sex, I don't need to see actual penetration, nor when someone goes to the bathroom, I don't need to see the result, nor when someone.....etc.Movies represent things, and since childbirth is part of life, why not represent it on film? The same goes for sex, especially if the filmmakers are deliberately attempting to demystify it. Also, if memory serves, there's a scene in Wim Wenders' Kings of the Road where the dude actually take a dump.

[transmogrifier]

Movies represent things, and since childbirth is part of life, why not represent it on film? The same goes for sex, especially if the filmmakers are deliberately attempting to demystify it. Also, if memory serves, there's a scene in Wim Wenders' Kings of the Road where the dude actually take a dump.

You're all about the surface, aren't you?

[D_Davis]

I saw a childbirth once. It was hella tight.

[origami_mustache]

Kang-sheng Lee's (more well known for his acting in Ming-liang Tsai's films) Help Me Eros was fantastic. It was produced by Ming-liang Tsai who also served as the production designer and lended his DP. The film had a really great look to it and was similar to a Tsai film in a lot of ways. It felt a lot like watching a follow up to The Wayward Cloud.

[baby doll]

You're all about the surface, aren't you?Who's talking about surfaces? Either you show something or conceal it. In movies the vast majority of the time, we don't see childbirth, sex, or pooping. But for a filmmaker like Catherine Breillat, who wants to treat the first two in a very matter of fact way, the only way to do that is to show these things--not in a sensationalistic way, but just as part of the scene.

[Qrazy]

Who's talking about surfaces? Either you show something or conceal it. In movies the vast majority of the time, we don't see childbirth, sex, or pooping. But for a filmmaker like Catherine Breillat, who wants to treat the first two in a very matter of fact way, the only way to do that is to show these things--not in a sensationalistic way, but just as part of the scene.

See I wish she did do that but I feel she does focus on the grotesque (a form of sensationalism) rather than making the act a natural one... at least in A Real Young Girl.

[Russ]

Who's talking about surfaces? Either you show something or conceal it.

Or condense it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/joel_harmon/blue9.jpg

[baby doll]

See I wish she did do that but I feel she does focus on the grotesque (a form of sensationalism) rather than making the act a natural one... at least in A Real Young Girl.I was thinking more of Romance. Une vraie jeune fille is definitely a strong film in that it's impossible to ignore, but yeah, it's not easy to watch.

[transmogrifier]

Who's talking about surfaces? Either you show something or conceal it. In movies the vast majority of the time, we don't see childbirth, sex, or pooping. But for a filmmaker like Catherine Breillat, who wants to treat the first two in a very matter of fact way, the only way to do that is to show these things--not in a sensationalistic way, but just as part of the scene.

I was referring to your lengthy dismissal of symbolism in The Shining and your apparent desire here for movies to simply reflect what we can see day to day in real life. Literalism to the nth degree, and pretty boring cinema, if you ask me.

[baby doll]

I was referring to your lengthy dismissal of symbolism in The Shining and your apparent desire here for movies to simply reflect what we can see day to day in real life. Literalism to the nth degree, and pretty boring cinema, if you ask me.I wasn't denying there was symbolism in The Shining, but the interpretation that Jack attacking his family is meant to symbolize America's treatment of its native peoples is bananas.

What else do movies do but reproduce what's visible and audible? I'm not saying every film where a character gives birth needs to have documentary footage of actual childbirth (some actors will only go so far for a part), but if you're looking for a movie that shows childbirth rather than trying to conceal it, I recommend you check out Brakhage's Window Water Baby Moving or Breillat's Romance.

[transmogrifier]

... but if you're looking for a movie that shows childbirth rather than trying to conceal it, I recommend you check out Brakhage's Window Water Baby Moving or Breillat's Romance.

Ah, but you see, I'm not. I think this is the crux of our misunderstanding.

[baby doll]

Ah, but you see, I'm not. I think this is the crux of our misunderstanding.But what you were saying earlier is that you couldn't imagine a situation where it's necessary to show it. I think if filmmakers want to treat anything in an adult manner, as a matter of course rather than trying to conceal something, then you have show it.

[transmogrifier]

But what you were saying earlier is that you couldn't imagine a situation where it's necessary to show it. I think if filmmakers want to treat anything in an adult manner, as a matter of course rather than trying to conceal something, then you have show it.

So being an adult means total transparency and honesty? Nah, that's a pretty naive worldview you've got going there.

[baby doll]

So being an adult means total transparency and honesty? Nah, that's a pretty naive worldview you've got going there.Sticking to childbirth in the movies (and not expanding this into a total worldview), most movies have a very sentimental, cleaned-up view of what childbirth is. No blood, nothing gross. If you want to show what it really looks like, you have to get the camera right up the woman's vagina. Similarly, if you want to make a film about what poverty looks like, you have to show it.

[transmogrifier]

you have to get the camera right up the woman's vagina.

My signature has a new quote.

[MacGuffin]

In other news, I watched Breathless again today, and while I still don't think it's tier one Godard, I do think it's a masterpiece. There are few films that exist that are this energetic. My favorite scene has to be where Jean-Pierre Melville's character hits on Patricia at a press conference for his latest book.

[baby doll]

while I still don't think it's tier one Godard"The kid with the backpack said 'radical.' I say 'radical.' That's my thing that I say. I feel like I'm going to explode here!"

[MacGuffin]

"The kid with the backpack said 'radical.' I say 'radical.' That's my thing that I say. I feel like I'm going to explode here!"

I feel like I'm supposed to understand this...

[Sven]

What else do movies do but reproduce what's visible and audible?

Well, for one, through juxtaposition and film manipulation, it can create meaning that cannot be simply replicated in audio/visual representation. Editing, special effects, expressive design, scoring... these are things that on their own can mean much less than within the context that filmmakers are all too happy to provide.

[Arthur Seaton]

Look what you started, Mara. ;)

[megladon8]

Princess Mononoke is still wonderful. My favorite Miyazaki film, and my second favorite animated film of all time.

And Joe Hisaishi's score is among my favorites as well. Haunting, epic, beautiful.

[MacGuffin]

And Joe Hisaishi's score is among my favorites as well. Haunting, epic, beautiful.

I haven't seen this one, but he's a very good composer.

[megladon8]

I haven't seen this one, but he's a very good composer.


Here is the film's theme. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHOmkAQuOPA)

[[ETM]]

I love all of Hisaishi's work, especially his themes. They rival the best of what Hollywood has to offer. One of my favorites is this theme from Nausicaa:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0l9JO9bU0g

Also, the main theme from Laputa, etc. I have all of his work with Miyazaki and it's fantastic.

[dreamdead]

How frustrating to watch the semi-surrealistic visual poetry that was the "Girl Hunt" sequence in Vincente Minnelli's The Band Wagon get juxtaposed against some truly mediocre scriptwork. Though a few of the musical sequences (namely "Triplets") are memorable, pretty much every dance sequence is gorgeous and so, so light and pleasant. Which makes it all the more frustrating that story itself is a mush of tedium and cliche, refusing to grant the possibility that marrying art and entertainment can yield something transcendent by continuously mocking such a marriage, as in the Faust musical segments. And though Minnelli could contend that he's working dialectically by offering the "Girl Hunt" sequence as that selfsame marriage between high and low culture, such a notion does not play out convincingly. A few time capsule moments full of graceful dance, but nothing that unfortunately works through and through.

And Syd Charisse... Yowza. :eek:

[trotchky]

is there any film with an original score that uses that score entirely to express its characters' feelings and psychologies, where the music is at least as important if not more important than the visuals, like punch-drunk love does, or is that an original innovation by p.t. anderson? genuine question.

[megladon8]

God, I love this scene so much. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8ZsWKjtQfA)

[origami_mustache]

I feel like I'm supposed to understand this...

Simpsons quote

[BuffaloWilder]

The second part of Sven and I's George Miller discussion is up, at the site. Also, do find enclosed a copy of Sven's previously published paper on "Beyond Thunderdome."

[Dead & Messed Up]

Third viewing of Watchmen still holds up, although I don't remember it having so much slow-motion. I mean, I knew it was present, but on this viewing, it started to feel pervasive. It's like, chill out, Snyder, let the awesome come from the story/characters/subtexts.

[BuffaloWilder]

Third viewing of Watchmen still holds up, although I don't remember it having so much slow-motion. I mean, I knew it was present, but on this viewing, it started to feel pervasive. It's like, chill out, Snyder, let the awesome come from the story/characters/subtexts.

...but slow-motion and fast-cut zoom-ins are all Snyder has.

[Dead & Messed Up]

...but slow-motion and fast-cut zoom-ins are all Snyder has.

I think that's awfully reductive. I'm a big fan of how he blends music and image. Look at his credits for Dawn of the Dead. I think his films frequently have an inviting painterly style with their use of broad strokes of color and deep saturation. And while his speed-ramping can grow irksome at times, he has complete control of his action sequences, making them easy to follow and frequently involving.

[BuffaloWilder]

I think that's awfully reductive. I'm a big fan of how he blends music and image. Look at his credits for Dawn of the Dead. I think his films frequently have an inviting painterly style with their use of broad strokes of color and deep saturation. And while his speed-ramping can grow irksome at times, he has complete control of his action sequences, making them easy to follow and frequently involving.

We will agree to disagree.

But we both know I'm right.

[Dead & Messed Up]

We will agree to disagree.

But we both know I'm right.

Not yet.
Almost there.
Shut up.

[MadMan]

I don't care what anyone says, Tremors is a masterpiece of B-movie filmmaking. Some of the most convincing effects in all of monster-flick history combined with an altogether appealing ensemble, consistently funny and smart writing, and sturdy direction by Underwood make for a deliriously entertaining ode to a past generation of horror movies. Speaking of which, whatever happened to Underwood, seriously? Pluto Nash?It is awesome, yes. I love its black comedy, its monster driven scares, which while aren't plentiful, are there. Some gore and violence also occurs, but it is dealt in a way that is amusing yet also has an impact on the viewer.


And for the record, while it doesn't nearly equal its resplendent forebear, Tremors 2: Aftershocks is one of the best DTV sequels of all-time.Love, love that movie. If anything its one of my favorite sequels, and is equal to the first movie in almost every single aspect. Too bad the rest of the series is utterly awful.

Over the last couple of pages, I have given out rep because of an opinion I agreed with, and a post that is wonderfully snarky in a very funny fashion. What's even better is that I finally saw two movies tonight worthy of me actually penning a review, something I haven't done in months. Even if I may have nothing to offer on them that other, far better critics have already presented. That's never stopped me before, though :P

[BuffaloWilder]

Not yet.
Almost there.
Shut up.



This is stupid.

[origami_mustache]

I'm a big fan of how he blends music and image.

Maybe the most annoying soundtrack of all time.

[trotchky]

Maybe the most annoying soundtrack of all time.

watchmen's? yeah, it's pretty bad. like snyder and co. tuned in to the local classic rock station and picked the first 10 tracks the dj played, with a my chemical romance cover thrown in for good measure.

but now that we're all talking about music: i'm looking for something: i'm looking for movies that use music as the primary way of characterizing the characters. other than, of course, punch-drunk love. someone please tell me movies like this, movies that may have influenced what punch-drunk love does, because i want to see them.

[BuffaloWilder]

but now that we're all talking about music: i'm looking for something: i'm looking for movies that use music as the primary way of characterizing the characters. other than, of course, punch-drunk love. someone please tell me movies like this, movies that may have influenced what punch-drunk love does, because i want to see them.

Jukebox musicals, they're called. It's a burgeoning genre.

[trotchky]

Jukebox musicals, they're called. It's a burgeoning genre.

see, but that's what boogie nights does, and it's still very surface level. the music in those movies is like a greek chorus; in punch-drunk love, the majority of the meaning comes from the music--or rather the sound, because it's also ambient noises and bells and whistles and pressure valves and conga drums and all manner of things, not pop music.

[trotchky]

the closest thing i know of is elephant, but that came after punch-drunk love so it doesn't count.

[Duncan]

Well, I don't think Punch-Drunk Love does exactly what you say it does (music and sound design are obviously very important in that film, but I don't think they're the primary method of characterization--more like one of many), but other films I can think of that might fall under what you're looking for are:
Stranger than Paradise, for Screaming Jay Hawkins and John Lurie.
2001, for its use of silence and classical music and sound design in general.
The Conversation, because that movie is all about sound design and music.
Rehearsals for Extinct Anatomies, or any of the Quay Bros films, really. Music is the life blood of their films, or so they say in an interview I saw.
Scorpio Rising, for its use of pop music, though it's also very image driven.
Au Hasard Balthazar, for the sounds of beatings, bells, firecrackers, braying, and Schubert.

[B-side]

Wow. Perfect Blue was great.

[Qrazy]

see, but that's what boogie nights does, and it's still very surface level. the music in those movies is like a greek chorus; in punch-drunk love, the majority of the meaning comes from the music--or rather the sound, because it's also ambient noises and bells and whistles and pressure valves and conga drums and all manner of things, not pop music.

Memento uses ambient music to interesting psychological effect.

[Dead & Messed Up]

watchmen's? yeah, it's pretty bad. like snyder and co. tuned in to the local classic rock station and picked the first 10 tracks the dj played, with a my chemical romance cover thrown in for good measure.

I can understand accusations that the music is obvious at times, as during the "Hallelujah" and "Flight of the Valkyries" moments (although I personally love how obvious they are - Snyder's tongue is firmly in-cheek).

But not all of the choices are random. "All Along the Watchtower," "The Times They Are a-Changin," and "Desolation Row" are all direct references to the graphic novel. Additionally, "Unforgettable" underscores the "nostalgia" of the opening scene, and its foregone conclusion quite well. "Pruit Igoe" perfectly demonstrates Manhattan's simultaneously imposing and graceful nature.

Meanwhile, we've said little about Tyler Bates's score, which threads together the dense soundtrack with ease, and comes upon some excellent melodies for the main characters. I especially love the lone electric guitar that follows Nite Owl II around.

[Ivan Drago]

The only real song placements I found weird in Watchmen were the Simon and Garfunkel song at the Comedian's funeral, and 99 Luftballoons. Other than that the soundtrack was great.

[Sycophant]

I almost uniformly prefer Hisaishi's Kitano scores over his Miyazaki scores.

[Sycophant]

Harry Potter IV focuses a whole lot on the nonsense magic of the series' absurd and unrelatable world. Overlong, meandering, pretty dull.

[megladon8]

Harry Potter IV focuses a whole lot on the nonsense magic of the series' absurd and unrelatable world. Overlong, meandering, pretty dull.


This is The Goblet of Fire, right?

If so, I agree. Worst of the series.

[Sycophant]

This is The Goblet of Fire, right?

If so, I agree. Worst of the series.

Oh, yeah. That's what it's called.

I haven't seen the first two in several years, but I hated them, and I think this fits in right next to them. Five is supposed to be decent, right?

[megladon8]

Oh, yeah. That's what it's called.

I haven't seen the first two in several years, but I hated them, and I think this fits in right next to them. Five is supposed to be decent, right?


Yeah five is pretty good. Surprisingly dark and grim for a kids'/family movie, and it also throws in lots of little odes to Star Wars.

I'm going to have to join the majority and say that part 3 (Prisoner of Azkaban) is the best. Though I haven't seen the new one yet.

[MadMan]

I feel that (without having seen the new one, mind you) Harry Potter 5 is the best of the series, followed by the third one. I don't get the hate at all for the forth movie, but it does need to be revisited. The first one is merely decent at best, and because of that damn annoying elf I didn't make it through the second one.

[Qrazy]

Oh, yeah. That's what it's called.

I haven't seen the first two in several years, but I hated them, and I think this fits in right next to them. Five is supposed to be decent, right?

All of the adaptations are roughly equivalent, I really don't see drastic differences. Three and five are a bit stronger. If you hate them it's probably more an issue of the source material than anything else.

[MadMan]

I've only read the first Harry Potter book, and I'm glad I have simply so that I can judge the movies based on their cinematic quality instead of trying to measure whether or not they reflected their source material. I tried to also do that with LOTRs, even though I had read the books, and Watchmen as well, but it was quite difficult.

[Sven]

Whoops. There I go again.

[Stay Puft]

I almost uniformly prefer Hisaishi's Kitano scores over his Miyazaki scores.

Yeah, same here.

Princess Mononoke's score is the exception that would be right near the top of my list, though. So good.

[Ezee E]

I just love how the suspense in Diabolique works, going from a suspense of "will they get caught" that turns into a scarier sort of suspense. All very seamless as well. Good stuff.

[Qrazy]

Yeah, same here.

Princess Mononoke's score is the exception that would be right near the top of my list, though. So good.

Spirited Away also has a great score. I haven't seen enough Kitano to judge but out of the four I've seen only two have been Hisaishi scores and only Hana-bi compares to his Miyazaki scoring excellence. There's nothing special about the Sonatine score.

[Rowland]

I just love how the suspense in Diabolique works, going from a suspense of "will they get caught" that turns into a scarier sort of suspense. All very seamless as well. Good stuff.I sorta ruined this one for myself with my first viewing several years ago, during which I successfully predicted the twist very early on and found myself fixating on it for the duration of the picture's second half, which obviously had a detrimental effect on the suspense. If I were to reassess it, I'd probably focus more on thematic content and cinematic execution.

[EyesWideOpen]

This is The Goblet of Fire, right?

If so, I agree. Worst of the series.

No way!

HP 3 > HP4 > HP6 > HP5 > HP1 > HP2

[Grouchy]

Yesterday I saw My Neighbor Totoro with my girlfriend - it's one of her favorite movies. Awesome stuff. As kid-oriented as Ponyo (instead of the more complex Princess Mononoke) but much more subtle and engaging. It's quite unusual in that it's a movie entirely centered around the world of children and the liberation of fantasy. There are no "villains" and no big conflict other than Mei getting lost near the end - and the mother's sickness, which is hinted at but never exploited for tragedy. The movie ends up being just about how two girls cope with the harshness of life with the help of Totoro and his forest magic. Beautiful, whimsical creation.

[Ivan Drago]

Harry Potter IV focuses a whole lot on the nonsense magic of the series' absurd and unrelatable world.

Yup, and at the same time turns it into a fucking high school movie. Worst of the series despite the Robert Pattinson factor.

[Rowland]

There's going to be a Harold Lloyd marathon on TCM this Wednesday for those interested. I'll be recording A Sailor-Made Man, Dr. Jack, Grandma's Boy, Why Worry?, Safety Last, Girl Shy, The Freshman, and The Kid Brother.

[Watashi]

You know.... I'm not gonna lie. I'm really looking forward to G.I. Joe next weekend.

[MacGuffin]

Waste food, make masterpieces.

[BuffaloWilder]

On the Spawn DVD, there's an extra with Todd Mcfarlane, a twenty-minute sit down session, and here's a couple of highlights, paraphrased but only a little bit -


Spawn is drawn mainly from my life, you know. That's why Al Simmons is a black man.


The whole reason this movie sucks is - is like, I knew it was gonna be for the PG-13 crowd, right and that's the thing, with the initial pitch. Kids don't like hell.


Spawn is Batman if he wasn't controlled by corporate America.


Hell, I was the one telling them to change everything.


The reason I made Spawn black was because black is interesting. Also, my roommate in college was black, and that was crazy.


We're all prejudiced against some things. If you work for the government, I got a problem with ya.


(on the MPAA) We were like, it's about a guy from hell - strike one. He lives in allies - strike two. They were like - look, if you set a movie in a graveyard the whole time and it's just guys talkin' about tea and crumpets, they'll still give you an R rating. I mean, they told us - no nudity, no language beyond what you usually see, and we just had to be like 'okay,' and - then he goes on about how corporate America damned the movie and trying to please feminists and Indians and something or other - and, it was just like suicide, and money in the corporate America's pocket, but you've got to show 'em there's another way to the party.


I hope Spawn is like a success, 'cause I want to be a one-of-a-kind guy, because you know - they're doing movies about politically correct stuff, and I'm like, 'I'm gonna do a movie about hell.' You know, be a trend-setter. They'll be callin' for more dark superheroes.

http://gaygamer.net/images/mcfarlanebaseball.jpg

[Sycophant]

Yup, and at the same time turns it into a fucking high school movie. Worst of the series despite the Robert Pattinson factor.

Can't agree with this, really. These movies are the best when they're actually about kids being in school.

And, yeah, I have a real basic problem with the series' universe.

[EyesWideOpen]

The first thing you should know about Todd McFarlane is that he's a douche.

[trotchky]

benny's video owns.

[Spinal]

benny's video owns.

It owns pigs, that's for damn sure.

[MacGuffin]

Doppelganger the best Kiyoshi Kurosawa movie that I've seen yet.

[B-side]

Downloading My Life to Live and my first Hark film, Butterfly Murders.

[Mara]

Yesterday I saw My Neighbor Totoro with my girlfriend - it's one of her favorite movies. Awesome stuff. As kid-oriented as Ponyo (instead of the more complex Princess Mononoke) but much more subtle and engaging. It's quite unusual in that it's a movie entirely centered around the world of children and the liberation of fantasy. There are no "villains" and no big conflict other than Mei getting lost near the end - and the mother's sickness, which is hinted at but never exploited for tragedy. The movie ends up being just about how two girls cope with the harshness of life with the help of Totoro and his forest magic. Beautiful, whimsical creation.

Totoro is a gentle film.

It seems like gentle films are rarely made anymore.

[B-side]

Downloading My Life to Live and my first Hark film, Butterfly Murders.

Pretty damn great film, My Life to Live. Easily the best Karina performance I've seen. 2 highlights: the scene in the theater when Karina watches The Passion of Joan of Arc, and the letter-writing sequence. Something about the latter scene struck me as really tragic stuff.

[megladon8]

The first thing you should know about Todd McFarlane is that he's a douche.


Why's he a douche? I've never heard of douchey behaviour on his part before.

[BuffaloWilder]

Why's he a douche? I've never heard of douchey behaviour on his part before.


His doucheyness is what defines him. Aside from the obvious stuff, I can't remember how many times a reader wrote a letter in to Spawn asking about - well, just what was going on here? And, his response basically came down to, 'well if you don't like it, then don't read my work. You're what's wrong with the industry.'

And, so on.

[megladon8]

His doucheyness is what defines him. Aside from the obvious stuff, I can't remember how many times a reader wrote a letter in to Spawn asking about - well, just what was going on here? And, his response basically came down to, 'well if you don't like it, then don't read my work. You're what's wrong with the industry.'

And, so on.



Huh, I never knew this.

That sucks.

[BuffaloWilder]

Huh, I never knew this.

That sucks.


The only thing good to come out of Spawn was that animated series, and even then the first season's a little iffy, for a couple of episodes.

Oh, and some sporadically well-written runs on the comic by better writers than McFarlane.

[megladon8]

The only thing good to come out of Spawn was that animated series, and even then the first season's a little iffy, for a couple of episodes.

Oh, and some sporadically well-written runs on the comic by better writers than McFarlane.


Indeed on both accounts.

But I did always like McFarlane, because his toys are freaking amazing, and I do think the Spawn universe is pretty neat-o.

Plus, I guess I feel closer to the guy than any other comic creator. His dad was my grade 2 teacher.

[Melville]

McFarlane's legal battles with Neil Gaiman also seemed kind of douchey, especially since Image was originally touted as being all about creator's rights.

[BuffaloWilder]

Indeed on both accounts.

But I did always like McFarlane, because his toys are freaking amazing, and I do think the Spawn universe is pretty neat-o.

Plus, I guess I feel closer to the guy than any other comic creator. His dad was my grade 2 teacher.

I do like the toys. I have a few of them somewheres.

[BuffaloWilder]

McFarlane's legal battles with Neil Gaiman also seemed kind of douchey, especially since Image was originally touted as being all about creator's rights.

"Well, see - really, I was kinda really just talking about me, y'know."

[Raiders]

benny's video owns.

Ugh. Haneke at his most obnoxious.

http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=94013&postcount=18607

http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=94034&postcount=18610

[MacGuffin]

Lacombe, Lucien (Louis Malle, 1974) / ****

Thoughts on this one, baby doll or anyone else?

[baby doll]

Thoughts on this one, baby doll or anyone else?It's pretty awesome. I don't think it can be taken as a total statement about Nazi collaboration, but is just about this one particular boy. And the style is terrific, especially the elaborately choreographed handheld camera movements.

[MacGuffin]

It's pretty awesome. I don't think it can be taken as a total statement about Nazi collaboration, but is just about this one particular boy. And the style is terrific, especially the elaborately choreographed handheld camera movements.

I think I may just bump that or another Malle to the top of my Netflix queue. I think that the only things I've seen from him was his segment from Histories extraordinaires and Elevator the the Gallows, which I liked to a certain extent.

[baby doll]

I think I may just bump that or another Malle to the top of my Netflix queue. I think that the only things I've seen from him was his segment from Histories extraordinaires and Elevator the the Gallows, which I liked to a certain extent.Yeah, I didn't much care for Ascensuer pour l'échafaud or Les Amants, so I'd been putting off checking out Malle's other stuff.

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, I didn't much care for Ascensuer pour l'échafaud or Les Amants, so I'd been putting off checking out Malle's other stuff.

I'm also not quite sure I'd care for My Dinner With Andre, but I suppose I'll give it a try eventually, if only to see the movie that Barack Obama's been rumored to have watched eight times.

[baby doll]

So, while we're on the subject of the awesomeness of Lacombe, Lucien, 1974 was a pretty amazing year for movies:

Ali: Fear Eats the Soul (Fassbinder)
Alice in the Cities (Wenders)
Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia (Peckinpah)
California Split (Altman)
Céline et Julie vont en bateau (Rivette)
Chinatown (Polanski)
The Conversation (Coppola)
F for Fake (Welles)
Le Fantôme de la liberté (Buñuel)
Fuji (Breer)
Lacombe, Lucien (Malle)
Lancelot du lac (Bresson)
A Woman Under the Influence (Cassavetes)

[Raiders]

1974 was a pretty amazing year for movies

Yep. I have always said it was my "favorite" year for film.

In addition to those you mentioned, I would add:

Fassbinder's Martha
The Texas Chain Saw Massacre
The Enigma of Kaspar Hauer
Hearts and Minds
Phantom of the Paradise
Lenny

I still haven't seen the Malle film either.

[MacGuffin]

Fugi (Breer)


Is this supposed to be a movie called Fuji? I'd never heard of it, so I looked it up and that was all I could find.

[baby doll]

Is this supposed to be a movie called Fuji? I'd never heard of it, so I looked it up and that was all I could find.Silly me. Yes, it's Fuji.

[Grouchy]

My top ten for 1974 is amazing:

1. Chinatown
2. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia
3. The Conversation
4. A Woman Under the Influence
5. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre
6. Phantom of the Paradise
7. F for Fake
8. The Godfather: Part II
9. Young Frankenstein
10. Black Christmas

[Rowland]

As far as Coppola is concerned, I prefer The Godfather II from that year. There are also Bob Clark's two best movies, Deathdream and Black Christmas, Mario Bava's Lisa and the Devil and Rabid Dogs, and the original Taking of Pelham One Two Three.

[Melville]

That's an impressive year. And nobody's even mentioned Edvard Munch yet.

[thefourthwall]

Totoro is a gentle film.

It seems like gentle films are rarely made anymore.

Gentle films:

When Brendan Met Trudy
The Secret of Roan Inish
Trainman (Densha otoko)

Trainman is especially lovable about an internet addicted sweetie who ventures into the real world for a girl he "saves" on a train. Love love love.

[Grouchy]

A movie I'd label as "gentle" is Wings of Desire.

[Eleven]

Yeah, '74 is probably my favorite movie year too. '54, '56, and '57 are pretty terrific, too.

[baby doll]

Yeah, '74 is probably my favorite movie year too. '54, '56, and '57 are pretty terrific, too.From the 50s, I'd go with '55 and '59. I actually haven't seen too much from '57 that I really liked.

1955:
1. Ordet (Carl Theodor Dreyer)
2. Nuit et brouillard (Alain Resnais)
3. All That Heaven Allows (Douglas Sirk)
4. The Night of the Hunter (Charles Laughton)
5. Moonfleet (Fritz Lang)
6. Artists and Models (Frank Tashlin)
7. Guys and Dolls (Joseph L. Mankiewicz)
8. A Generation (Andrzej Wajda)
9. Lola Montès (Max Ophüls)
10. Rebel Without a Cause (Nicholas Ray)
bubblin' under...
11. The Trouble With Harry (Alfred Hitchcock)
12. The Man With the Golden Arm (Otto Preminger)
13. Kiss Me Deadly (Robert Aldrich)
14. Pather panchali (Satyajit Ray)

1959:
1. Pickpocket (Robert Bresson)
2. Imitation of Life (Douglas Sirk)
3. The Tiger of Eschnapur & The Indian Tomb (Fritz Lang)
4. Hiroshima mon amour (Alain Resnais)
5. Anatomy of a Murder (Otto Preminger)
6. Les Quatre cents coups (François Truffaut)
7. Floating Weeds (Yasujiro Ozu)
8. Shadows (John Cassavetes)
9. Rio Bravo (Howard Hawks)
10. NazarÃ*n (Luis Buñuel)

1957:
1. Nights of Cabiria (Federico Fellini)
2. Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? (Frank Tashlin)
3. Tokyo Twilight (Yasujiro Ozu)
4. Throne of Blood (Akira Kurosawa)
5. A King in New York (Charles Chaplin)
6. Paths of Glory (Stanley Kubrick)
7. What's Opera, Doc? (Chuck Jones)
8.
9.
10.

[Derek]

From the 50s, I'd go with '55 and '59. I actually haven't seen too much from '57 that I really liked.

1957:
1. Nights of Cabiria (Federico Fellini)
2. Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? (Frank Tashlin)
3. Tokyo Twilight (Yasujiro Ozu)
4. Throne of Blood (Akira Kurosawa)
5. A King in New York (Charles Chaplin)
6. Paths of Glory (Stanley Kubrick)
7. What's Opera, Doc? (Chuck Jones)
8.
9.
10.

If you're looking to fill in those blanks, check out (in my preferential order) Bitter Victory, Sweet Smell of Success, The Cranes are Flying, Men in War, Il Grido, Aparajito and Forty Guns. I assume you've at least already seen the two Bergman's (I know you dislike WS), Bridge on the River Kwai and 12 Angry Men.

[Derek]

Baby Doll (Elia Kazan, 1956)

Savagely funny and increasingly vicious, Baby Doll is the rare film that not only lives up to, but surpasses its notoriety. From the steamy reparté between Baby Doll and Silva to the frank, although somewhat metaphorical, depiction of Archie Lee's sexual frustration which manifests itself in violent, destructive ways. The film really takes off once Silva makes his first advance on Baby Doll and Kazan's playful mise-en-scene and crisp editing make for an endlessly entertaining cat-and-mouse game with remarkable psychological intricacies that tackle the bruised male ego as adeptly as the naive female virgin's. It masterfully intertwines comedy, drama, sex and revenge into a wonderfully sensual and thoughtful film.

[Eleven]

If you're looking to fill in those blanks, check out (in my preferential order) Bitter Victory, Sweet Smell of Success, The Cranes are Flying, Men in War, Il Grido, Aparajito and Forty Guns. I assume you've at least already seen the two Bergman's (I know you dislike WS), Bridge on the River Kwai and 12 Angry Men.

And Lured, Run of the Arrow, A Face in the Crowd and Curse of the Demon. I think we can all at least agree that the 50s was exceedingly awesome for movies.

[BuffaloWilder]

So, Observe and Report - I'm a little torn. Especially on the ending - was it supposed to be a fantasy, or - ?

[megladon8]

Spoiler tags.

They're your friend.

[BuffaloWilder]

Spoiler tags.

They're your friend.

I didn't spoil anything, though.

:confused:

[megladon8]

I didn't spoil anything, though.

:confused:


What you said seemed kind of spoilerish, since I haven't seen the movie.

Maybe the importance of what you said isn't as great as it is in some other movies.

[Ezee E]

Read the Observe & Report thread Wilder.

A Night To Remember is alright. I like that they have a large ensemble to show the class relations on the Titanic, but I never really seemed attached to anyone, and I felt like I was just waiting for the boat to sink. Just like another movie you say?

Titanic takes all the positives from this movie and keeps them just fine I think.

[BuffaloWilder]

What you said seemed kind of spoilerish, since I haven't seen the movie.

Maybe the importance of what you said isn't as great as it is in some other movies.

It's not. It's just that the events are so 'out of nowhere' that it feels - kind of strange. I want to say it's a reference to

the end of Taxi Driver

But, not too sure yet.

[baby doll]

If you're looking to fill in those blanks, check out (in my preferential order) Bitter Victory, Sweet Smell of Success, The Cranes are Flying, Men in War, Il Grido, Aparajito and Forty Guns. I assume you've at least already seen the two Bergman's (I know you dislike WS), Bridge on the River Kwai and 12 Angry Men.Thanks for the recommendations. I've been wanting to see Bitter Victory for ages, and I bought Aparajito a few weeks ago for four dollars. I have seen Sweet Smell of Success, and I suppose I'll have to give it another look, but I thought the dialogue was awful ("You're a cookie full of arsenic. I'd hate to take a bite out of you").

[MacGuffin]

I don't really know what to say about Secret Sunshine. It's occasionally quite powerful, has some segments that feel like they don't belong, two spectacular performances and a decidedly unhopeful ending. I'll definitely have to see Oasis, because Lee strikes me as the sort of director who has so much to say that he can't say it all with just one movie, and he also reminded me at first of Bergman, and then of von Trier. It's not a very pleasant movie at all, but it's definitely a great one.

[trotchky]

Ugh. Haneke at his most obnoxious.

http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=94013&postcount=18607

http://www.match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=94034&postcount=18610

don't agree. hypocritical and condescending have become go-to adjectives for describing haneke, as well as big fat bolded themes like the dehumanizing effect of media, but i think there's a lot more nuance and, especially in this film, human compassion than most people give him credit for.

benny is a monotone character? no, i don't agree with that. he's obviously going through some sort of internal turmoil after he murders the girl, trying to contact his sister and then cutting all his hair off. the haircut isn't benny consciously adopting a "skinhead" look, the conclusion his father (and probably the audience) immediately leaps to, but an effort at placing his actions in some sort of context by swiping at a new identity. he isn't making cold, calculated decisions; he's confused, above all else, and looking for an explanation of some kind.

the decision to show the tape to his parents. if he was just a heartless killer, why would he do that? when the camera lingers on his face as the tape is playing out, he's clearly troubled by something. maybe it's remorse, maybe it's guilt, maybe he's just afraid of getting in trouble, but it definitely isn't "i just killed somebody now look at this cool tape i made of it." the murder occurs off-screen, anyway: it was a haphazard thing. he didn't know why he was doing it, but he recognizes, somewhere, how horrible it was (even if he can't feel the horror), and he's looking for retribution or at least a reaction of some kind.

which he doesn't get. his parents cover up the murder, and then he turns them in. the cops ask him why, and he answers "because." he doesn't know why he betrays his parents, just as he doesn't know why he killed the girl. i think we can extrapolate on the why, however: his parents make it go away and pretend like nothing happened. he commits a crime of the highest order and nothing happens. he's longing for an answer, a response, something, which he never gets, and it eventually drives him to turning himself and his parents in.

you don't think benny's mother was an emotional being? the truly disturbed look on her face as she watched the video, or the truly disturbing and senseless outbursts of laughter? her laughter was an absurd reaction to an absurd situation; the only kind of reaction that makes sense. and what about her breakdown in the hotel room? that isn't evidence of a beating human heart?

to say that the film simply blames the media is an incredibly simple reading; because, really, it's not the distancing effect of on-screen violence that drives benny to murder, it's the sheer numbness of his reality. the fact that he filmed the pig slaughter is a pretty big indicator of this: he was there, he saw the pig being killed, he saw his dad not giving a shit that he saw...he didn't just watch a movie of an animal being slaughtered, he witnessed first-hand the reality of systemic violence. and that reality, according to haneke, is cold and uncaring.

if anything, the media's representation of violence is just a reflection of society's response to it. at best it's a chicken-and-egg situation, but i think it's pretty obvious which came first.

there are no simple answers or accusations in benny's video. what other option did his parents have, given their situation, but to try to cover up and live with their son's crime? there's certainly evil somewhere in this movie, but it is so diluted and systemic that it becomes frustrating and highly difficult to pin-point. maybe that's why benny did what he did, after all.

[dreamdead]

I don't really know what to say about Secret Sunshine. It's occasionally quite powerful, has some segments that feel like they don't belong, two spectacular performances and a decidedly unhopeful ending. I'll definitely have to see Oasis, because Lee strikes me as the sort of director who has so much to say that he can't say it all with just one movie, and he also reminded me at first of Bergman, and then of von Trier. It's not a very pleasant movie at all, but it's definitely a great one.

Awesome to see more thoughts on this one. I finally acquired a R3 copy of it, and should get to it by late next month. I can assure you that Oasis and Peppermint Candy provide plenty of fodder for contemplation, and that Lee's one of South Korea's foremost social critics, which makes his work endlessly fascinating. Oasis is likely the premiere Korean New Wave film for me, so I'd recommend holding off and making that your final query into his work, especially as PP is so strong itself.

[MacGuffin]

Awesome to see more thoughts on this one. I finally acquired a R3 copy of it, and should get to it by late next month. I can assure you that Oasis and Peppermint Candy provide plenty of fodder for contemplation, and that Lee's one of South Korea's foremost social critics, which makes his work endlessly fascinating. Oasis is likely the premiere Korean New Wave film for me, so I'd recommend holding off and making that your final query into his work, especially as PP is so strong itself.

I was going to watch Oasis first, but went with this, and after watching Secret Sunshine, have put Peppermint Candy on hold at the library.

[Qrazy]

I think I may just bump that or another Malle to the top of my Netflix queue. I think that the only things I've seen from him was his segment from Histories extraordinaires and Elevator the the Gallows, which I liked to a certain extent.

Au Revoir Les Enfants or Le Feu Follet.

[Grouchy]

I don't really know what to say about Secret Sunshine. It's occasionally quite powerful, has some segments that feel like they don't belong, two spectacular performances and a decidedly unhopeful ending. I'll definitely have to see Oasis, because Lee strikes me as the sort of director who has so much to say that he can't say it all with just one movie, and he also reminded me at first of Bergman, and then of von Trier. It's not a very pleasant movie at all, but it's definitely a great one.
I disagree that the ending is unhopeful - in fact, for me it's the other way around. What the ending shows is that, despite all that has gone wrong with this woman's life, there is still someone who loves her no matter how. That is her "secret sunshine", and the final shot's metaphor is a ray of light on a pile of garbage.

Great movie and devastating stuff indeed. When I saw it I left the theater and had to remain silent for a long time. I needed the time with myself. I must have walked fifty blocks straight, just smoking and thinking about it.

[MacGuffin]

I disagree that the ending is unhopeful - in fact, for me it's the other way around. What the ending shows is that, despite all that has gone wrong with this woman's life, there is still someone who loves her no matter how. That is her "secret sunshine", and the final shot's metaphor is a ray of light on a pile of garbage.

That's an interesting way of putting it, but I fear it may be the director sugar-coating things to a certain extent. I certainly see where you're coming from, but with a woman who had gone through all this and has shown that she is emotionally unstable as a result doesn't leave me very hopeful that she is going to get better, at least not any time soon (and maybe the "not any time soon part" isn't exact forever, hence the ray of sunlight that you mention). I mean, if we look at the ending, and look at the fact that she basically had a panic attack in the haircut salon just five minutes earlier, it certainly doesn't look or seem too hopeful, at least to me. But as you suggest, there probably is hope there somewhere, just not an immediate hope, I don't think.

[BuffaloWilder]

Good lord, I burned this one out.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I made it through two hours of La Dolce Vita tonight. I wanted to finish it, but I was having trouble staying awake. Flick needs zombies or laser beams or something.

Seriously though, I was getting into it - the biggest issue was resigning myself to the film being a series of vignettes, rather than a larger, more defined narrative. Once I got over that, I started to have some fun with it, especially that great stuff with the sad-sap father and that unflappable blonde actress.

[Sycophant]

Doppelganger the best Kiyoshi Kurosawa movie that I've seen yet.

Fantastic.

[Sycophant]

Saw two movies today. The Ugly Truth is terrible. The Outlaw Josey Wales really isn't.

[Qrazy]

A Tale of Sorrow and Sadness (Suzuki) - Hrm this one had a promising opening credits sequence and then it just turned into totally meandering, nonsensical dogshit. I can understand the vitriol leveled against Tokyo Drifter now, although I remember it being much better than this and enjoying it when I watched it.

[Grouchy]

That's an interesting way of putting it, but I fear it may be the director sugar-coating things to a certain extent. I certainly see where you're coming from, but with a woman who had gone through all this and has shown that she is emotionally unstable as a result doesn't leave me very hopeful that she is going to get better, at least not any time soon (and maybe the "not any time soon part" isn't exact forever, hence the ray of sunlight that you mention). I mean, if we look at the ending, and look at the fact that she basically had a panic attack in the haircut salon just five minutes earlier, it certainly doesn't look or seem too hopeful, at least to me. But as you suggest, there probably is hope there somewhere, just not an immediate hope, I don't think.
Eh, I think the movie doesn't sugarcoat it - that's precisely why it shows us the panic attack you mention. This woman is not well and, like you say, she won't be well for a long fucking time. But I think the ending suggests the hope that she will at least be taken care of by this man who's obviously in love with her. That's the importance and the role I attributed to that character, at least. Their story crosses over the whole film, and yet it's left open at the end.

[Grouchy]

http://camapafe.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/excalibur.jpg

Long time since I'd seen a movie as visually striking and entertaining as Boorman's Excalibur. I couldn't believe it when I realized I'd been watching for an hour already and it had felt like twenty minutes. I love the focus on the sexual parts of the legend as well as the themes of cycle and rebirth that plague the whole thing. Nicol Williamson's Merlin is awesome in that he's a wise-cracking Medieval cynic with genuine love for Arthur, but I thought the slapstick jokes that he goes through sometimes were a bit too goofy. Movie might look episodic, disjointed (it obviously has been trimmed a great deal from its original cut) or suffer from lack of characterization, but ironically, I think when it comes to the Arthurian legend or in fact any Middle Ages saga, those elements only make it more authentic. In short, this movie is a blast and I wish I'd seen it before. The best version of Arthur I've seen from Hollywood, a lot better than the bland First Knight and probably the Clive Owen version too - I haven't seen it.

It's also an added pleasure to see guys the caliber of Gabriel Byrne, Patrick Stewart and Liam Neeson in the beginning of their careers.

[MacGuffin]

The Exterminating Angel is a good movie, but it's far too long. I haven't seen Simon of the Desert, but if it's anything like this, it's probably better for its length. A lot of the scenes in the living room could have been gotten rid of and the movie would have still had the same effect. I understand that the movie is attempting to devalue the meaning of social classes by showing that no one, under certain circumstances, are as well behaved as their wealth may suggest and it is indeed a scathing lash at the upper-class, but there are too many scenes where everyone was just lying around.

[MacGuffin]

Eh, I think the movie doesn't sugarcoat it - that's precisely why it shows us the panic attack you mention. This woman is not well and, like you say, she won't be well for a long fucking time. But I think the ending suggests the hope that she will at least be taken care of by this man who's obviously in love with her. That's the importance and the role I attributed to that character, at least. Their story crosses over the whole film, and yet it's left open at the end.

Yeah, I see what you are talking about.

[Qrazy]

The Exterminating Angel is a good movie, but it's far too long. I haven't seen Simon of the Desert, but if it's anything like this, it's probably better for its length. A lot of the scenes in the living room could have been gotten rid of and the movie would have still had the same effect. I understand that the movie is attempting to devalue the meaning of social classes by showing that no one, under certain circumstances, are as well behaved as their wealth may suggest and it is indeed a scathing lash at the upper-class, but there are too many scenes where everyone was just lying around.

Dude, the film is 95 minutes. And there's much more going on than just lying around. There's a tension and a build up of conflict between parties. And they don't just lie around, they gradually deteriorate. All the time spent stuck in the room is necessary to demonstrate the descent into self-imposed madness.

[B-side]

OK, Opera was fucking awesome. It got progressively more ridiculous and convoluted as it went along, but damn if it wasn't enthralling and intense.

[MacGuffin]

Dude, the film is 95 minutes. And there's much more going on than just lying around. There's a tension and a build up of conflict between parties. And they don't just lie around, they gradually deteriorate. All the time spent stuck in the room is necessary to demonstrate the descent into self-imposed madness.

I know this criticism has been used for the last two movies I've seen, but I don't think a complete "descent into self-imposed madness" requires so many blank moments. But maybe it's not a matter of being too length and is really just humor that I'm not finding very funny. I recall not finding The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie too great either, and I thought Un chien andalou was average when I saw it about four years ago, but that's probably a different story and one I should revisit. Also: "heh" to the F for Suzuki.

[Qrazy]

I know this criticism has been used for the last two movies I've seen, but I don't think a complete "descent into self-imposed madness" requires so many blank moments. But maybe it's not a matter of being too length and is really just humor that I'm not finding very funny. I recall not finding The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie too great either, and I thought Un chien andalou was average when I saw it about four years ago, but that's probably a different story and one I should revisit. Also: "heh" to the F for Suzuki.

Yeah well if you thought Tokyo Drifter was bad you'll kill yourself after watching this film.

Well personally I don't think there are many blank moments in the film.

I don't think Un Chien Andalou is great so much as it's essential. It's a defining piece of world cinema but as a stand alone film I'm only mildly enthusiastic. You should give Viridiana, Belle de Jour and The Phantom of Liberty or That Obscure Object of Desire a look.

[MacGuffin]

Yeah well if you thought Tokyo Drifter was bad you'll kill yourself after watching this film.

I'll avoid it. But really, am I missing something with Buñuel or is it that the humor just isn't clicking with me? I have Diary of a Chambermaid right here, and it doesn't look to be at all potentially comedic like The Exterminating Angel. Then again, I could probably just save myself the 90 minutes and watch something else. Furthermore, I do want to see Viridiana, because I've heard that is his best movie.