Match Cut Directors Consensus - John Woo

[dreamdead]

Welcome to Week 37, where we chart the rise and decline of the master action director, John Woo. List your ratings starting with the earliest to the most recent. Otherwise, here we go...

http://www.gameguru.in/images/john-woo-ninja-gold.jpg

[dreamdead]

A Better Tomorrow - 6.5
A Better Tomorrow II - 5
The Killer - 8.5
Hard-Boiled - 7
Hard Target - 5
Broken Arrow - 5.5
Face/Off - 7
Mission Impossible 2 - 4

His brand of melodramatic heroism has its place in the action film, and he certainly revolutionized much of the style and cool factor that exists in the best genre work today, but that sense of melodrama has also sapped some of his vitality away. Even Hard-Boiled is so melodramatic that I now only watch bits and pieces in order to avoid the cheese that burdens down the middle of the film. Also, I've always wanted to see Bullet in the Head, but I'm not interested in paying for an import copy.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Hard Target - 3.5
Broken Arrow - 3.0
Face/Off - 5.0
Mission Impossible II - 4.0

[Ezee E]

The Killer - 8.5
Hard Boiled - 7.5
Broken Arrow - 3
Face/Off - 9
Mission: Impossible 2 - 2
Windtalkers - 1

[D_Davis]

Last Hurrah for Chivalry - 6
Heroes Shed no Tears - 6
A Better Tomorrow - 7
The Killer - 10
Bullet in the Head - 7
Hardboiled - 8
Hard Target - 4
Broken Arrow - 3
Face/Off - 9
MI:2 - 1

[Melville]

A Better Tomorrow II - 4
Hardboiled - 4.5
Broken Arrow - 2
Face/Off - 1

[origami_mustache]

The Killer - 6
Hard Target - 2
Face/Off - 4

[Boner M]

The Killer - 6.5
Bullet in the Head - 8
Hard-Boiled - 8.5
Face/Off - 6
Mission Impossible 2 - 1.5

I just wanna say that the "What a Wonderful World"-scored shootout scene in F/O is one of the lamest scenes ever.

[Sven]

The Killer - 3
Hard Boiled - 2
Hard Target - 6
Broken Arrow - 5
Face-Off - 4
Mission Impossible 2 - 3

[Ezee E]

Sven does not like his woo.

[monolith94]

A Better Tomorrow – 9.5
A Better Tomorrow 2 – 9.5
The Killer – 10
Hard-Boiled – 9
Broken Arrow – it's been too long
Face/Off – 8
Paycheck – 8.5

[Spinal]

Hard Boiled - 5
Broken Arrow - 3
Face/Off - 4
Mission Impossible II - 5.5

[Watashi]

The Killer - 7
Hard Boiled - 6
Broken Arrow - 3
Face/Off - 7.5
Mission Impossible II - 4.5
Windtalkers - 2

[Grouchy]

A Better Tomorrow - 8
The Killer - 10
Hard Boiled - 10
Mission: Impossible II - 4

[Mysterious Dude]

Face/Off - 4
Mission: Impossible II - 7

[MadMan]

Hard Boiled(1990)-9.0
Mission: Impossible II(2000)-6.0

[soitgoes...]

The Killer (1989) - 5.0
Broken Arrow (1996) - 3.0
Face/Off (1997) - 3.5
Mission: Impossible II (2000) - 2.5
Windtalkers (2002) - 3.0
Paycheck (2003) - 3.5

Ugh. At least he's consistent?

[Rowland]

A Better Tomorrow - 7.0
A Better Tomorrow II - 6.0
Bullet In the Head - 8.0
Hard Boiled - 8.5
Hard Target - 6.5
Broken Arrow - 5.0
Face/Off - 7.5

[MacGuffin]

Hard Boiled - 6

[megladon8]

Hard Boiled - 9
Broken Arrow - 4.5
Face/Off - 7
Mission: Impossible II - 5 (though it's been at least 6 years)
Windtalkers - 4

[Pop Trash]

The Killer - 9
Hard Boiled - 8
Hard Target - 5
Broken Arrow - 5
Face/Off - 8
Mission Impossible 2 - 4

It's been awhile for all of these but the HK films he made are quite great and I seem to remember Face/Off being awesome in a ridiculous sort of way.

[SirNewt]

Hard Boiled - 6
Broken Arrow - 1
Face/Off - 3

It still blows my mind that this is the name of film where someone actually takes their face off.

Mission Impossible II - 4
Windtalkers - 2

[Stay Puft]

Countdown to Kung Fu - 4
A Better Tomorrow - 7
A Better Tomorrow II - 5
The Killer - 8
Hard Boiled - 10
Face/Off - 7
Mission: Impossible II - 3
Windtalkers - 2
Paycheck - 4
Red Cliff - 6

[Torgo]

A Better Tomorrow - 9/10
A Better Tomorrow 2 - 7/10
The Killer - 8/10
Once a Thief ('90) - 6/10
Hard Boiled - 8/10
Broken Arrow - 4/10
Face/Off - 7/10
Mission: Impossible 2 - 5/10

[Yxklyx]

A Better Tomorrow - 4
Bullet in the Head - 6
Hard-Boiled - 9

[Raiders]

A Better Tomorrow (1986) 7.0
A Better Tomorrow II (1987) 6.5
The Killer (1989) 7.0
Bullet in the Head (1990) 5.5
Hard-Boiled (1992) 8.0
Hard Target (1993) 5.0
Broken Arrow (1996) 2.5
Face/Off (1997) 7.0
Mission: Impossible II (2000) 4.0

[Sycophant]

A Better Tomorrow - 7.0
A Better Tomorrow II - 7.5
The Killer - 8.5
Bullet in the Head - 10.0
Hard Boiled - 9.0
Face/Off - 7.0
Mission: Impossible 2 - 3.5

[Morris Schæffer]

A Better Tomorrow (1986) 4.5
A Better Tomorrow II (1987) 4.0
The Killer (1989) 7.0
Hard-Boiled (1992) 8.5
Hard Target (1993) 5.5
Broken Arrow (1996) 5.0
Face/Off (1997) 8.5
Mission: Impossible II (2000) 5.0
Windtalkers (2002) 4.0
Paycheck (2005) 3.5

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

The Killer - 3
Hard Boiled - 2
Face/Off - 5
Mission Impossible II - 2

The Killer is a bad mashup of Le Samourai and Magnificent Obsession.

Hard Boiled just sucks. Terrible plot and terrible dialogue. i.e. "Won't somebody save the baaabeeees!?!"

My favorite Woo moment by far is in The Killer, when the cat takes out one of the gangsters, with a comical meow sound effect as he jumps on the guy's back. I watched for more cat attacks but alas there were none.

[monolith94]

The Killer - 3
Hard Boiled - 2
Face/Off - 5
Mission Impossible II - 2

The Killer is a bad mashup of Le Samourai and Magnificent Obsession.

Hard Boiled just sucks. Terrible plot and terrible dialogue. i.e. "Won't somebody save the baaabeeees!?!"

My favorite Woo moment by far is in The Killer, when the cat takes out one of the gangsters, with a comical meow sound effect as he jumps on the guy's back. I watched for more cat attacks but alas there were none.
Le samorai was just a dumb rehash of This Gun For Hire. :rolleyes:

[SirNewt]

I don't know, I thought "Hard Boiled" was pretty cool up to the half way point. The hospital sequence was repetitive to the point of tedium and strained my patience.

[dreamdead]

results:
The Killer – 7.5 (18)
Bullet in the Head – 7.4167 (6)
Hard Boiled – 7.18 (25)
A Better Tomorrow – 6.9167 (12)
Face/Off – 6.24 (25)
A Better Tomorrow 2 – 6.0556 (9)
Hard Target – 4.8636 (11)
Paycheck – 4.5 (5)
Mission: Impossible 2 – 4 (23)
Broken Arrow – 3.8438 (16)
Windtalkers – 2.75 (8)
Overall: 5.5697

Did Not Qualify:
Blackjack - 7 (1)
Red Cliff – 6 (1)
Heroes Shed No Tears – 6 (1)
Last Hurrah for Chivalry – 6 (1)
Countdown to Kung Fu – 4 (1)

Biggest Watcher: Stay Puft
Biggest Fan: monolith94
Biggest Hater: Melville and Sven

[soitgoes...]

Biggest Hater: Melville and Sven
I must try harder.

[SirNewt]

Broken Arrow shouldn't be the close to MI:2. I'm by no means a fan of MI:2 but it's at least a full point or two better than Broken Arrow.

[Sxottlan]

Crap. The first time in months I've wanted to vote and I missed it.

Oh well, here are my ratings anyway:

A Better Tomorrow: 6.5
The Killer: 10
Hard-Boiled: 10
Hard Target: 8 (an underrated film)
Broken Arrow: 7
Face/Off: 10
Blackjack: 7
Mission: Impossible 2: 6.5
Windtalkers: 4
Paycheck: 3

He really fell off the wagon in his last couple movies. But I have high hopes for Red Cliff.



Red Cliff - 6

Aw man.

[ledfloyd]

Hard Boiled - 1
Face/Off - 7
Mission Impossible II - 5

[Sycophant]

American John Woo ruined everything.

[dreamdead]

Not something I want to do with every one of these, but I did adjust the rankings for ledfloyd and Sxott's posts. That, in turn, shifted The Killer into the top spot as Woo's best work.

[Dukefrukem]

After watching MI2, I started revisiting Woo ( i never did contribute to the consensus). I'm frankly shocked Paycheck didn't make it into the lowest scoring range. It's so much more terrible than Broken Arrow AND MI2.

Starting with Hard Boiled. Oh man, this is not how I remember it back in 2004 (my first viewing). Is the shotgun with roses in Terminator 2 a homage to the scene in this movie (or visa versa)? Even the hospital standoff is very reminiscent of the Skynet gunfight in Terminator 2.




His brand of melodramatic heroism has its place in the action film, and he certainly revolutionized much of the style and cool factor that exists in the best genre work today, but that sense of melodrama has also sapped some of his vitality away. Even Hard-Boiled is so melodramatic that I now only watch bits and pieces in order to avoid the cheese that burdens down the middle of the film.

So much truth here. There's a scene in the middle of the film where Alan is punching the air at the front his sailboat, representing the frustrating from his encounter with Tequila. It's hard to not to laugh even though you're supposed to envolk the exact opposite emotional response.

Hard Boiled – 5
Face/Off – 4
Paycheck – 3
Mission: Impossible 2 – 4
Broken Arrow – 7

[Skitch]

Dude...I understand not liking most of his work, but Hard Boiled is an action masterpiece.

[Dukefrukem]

Dude...I understand not liking most of his work, but Hard Boiled is an action masterpiece.

Its very close to being unwatchable for me.