Paul Newman has died

[Watashi]

http://gracemagazine.files.wordpress. com/2007/05/paulnewman480.jpg

R.I.P.

[Morris Schæffer]

I was prepared for that. He was apparently in really bad shape.

:sad:

[baby doll]

I don't know his films very well. Like Clint Eastwood and Robert Redford, he's one of those late 60s movies stars that my dad likes because he remembers seeing his films when they came out. Dustin Hoffman is where we can come together because we each have our own Hoffman movies (he says Tootsie, I say I Heart Huckabees). Not to appear disrespectful or anything, but as some one born fifteen years after Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid was released, I don't feel any connection to his work.

[soitgoes...]

He was one of my favorites. Those eyes... So sad. :cry:

[Saya]

R.I.P. :sad:

[Boner M]

as some one born fifteen years after Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid was released, I don't feel any connection to his work.
YOU'RE ONLY CONFUSING YOURSELF.

[The Mike]

I don't know his films very well. Like Clint Eastwood and Robert Redford, he's one of those late 60s movies stars that my dad likes because he remembers seeing his films when they came out. Dustin Hoffman is where we can come together because we each have our own Hoffman movies (he says Tootsie, I say I Heart Huckabees). Not to appear disrespectful or anything, but as some one born fifteen years after Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid was released, I don't feel any connection to his work.
Someone get this kid a hug!

Paul will be missed. :sad:

[EvilShoe]

I recently saw the Hustler again. What a great performance and what a great film.
Those eyes indeed.

[The Mike]

Why is this story only on MatchCut?

[EvilShoe]

Why is this story only on MatchCut?
I can't find any confirmation for this either. Seems to be only rumoured so far.

[The Mike]

I can't find any confirmation for this either. Seems to be only rumoured so far.

There are several articles out of Italy in the last 20 minutes saying it has happened (at least, that's what it looks like to someone who doesn't speak Italian.)

[DSNT]

I also just watched The Hustler recently. Legendary performance.

The story is also here:
http://blog.oregonlive.com/madaboutmovies/2008/09/_fast_eddie_felson_hud.html

[Arthur Seaton]

...Not to appear disrespectful or anything, but as some one born fifteen years after Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid was released, I don't feel any connection to his work.

What the heck does this even mean?!?
:crazy::frustrated::evil:

...

Very sad news. RIP.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Man, what a gut-punch to start my weekend. :cry:

R.I.P.

[Malickfan]

Not to appear disrespectful or anything, but as some one born fifteen years after Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid was released, I don't feel any connection to his work.

Swell.

[monolith94]

Whoah. Expect clips at the oscars. RIP.

[shaun]

Not unexpected. He stopped treatment a while back to to spend more time with his family before he died and to take care of business. Still sad all the same.

Go easy.

[Spinal]

I don't know his films very well. Like Clint Eastwood and Robert Redford, he's one of those late 60s movies stars that my dad likes because he remembers seeing his films when they came out. Dustin Hoffman is where we can come together because we each have our own Hoffman movies (he says Tootsie, I say I Heart Huckabees). Not to appear disrespectful or anything, but as some one born fifteen years after Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid was released, I don't feel any connection to his work.

Once again, actually seeing the films helps.

[baby doll]

Once again, actually seeing the films helps.I have seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and Road to Perdition (neither one any thing special), but generally speaking, his films aren't on my radar. The Hollywood stars I'm most familiar with are the ones who made films for great directors. Jimmy Stewart for instance acted in films by Alfred Hitchcock, Ernst Lubitsch and Otto Preminger, which I'm more likely to seek out than films like The Hustler and Cool Hand Luke which are regarded as classics (albeit more so than in the US than elsewhere) but were directed by anonymous craftsmen rather than a recognizable auteur.

[Raiders]

Paul Newman starred in a Hitchcock and Preminger film. I would also argue that Martin Scorsese, Robert Rossen, Martin Ritt, Sidney Lumet, and Sydney Pollack were/are not really anonymous craftsman. You may not be a big fan, and most are not "auteurs," but let's not act like he was often slumming with some studio stooge.

And definitely sad, but expected, news.

[baby doll]

What the heck does this even mean?!I think of him as some one like Clark Gable or Gregory Peck who was a big star in his time but isn't much remembered today. Similarly, Heath Ledger gave a strong performance in Brokeback Mountain but the film as a whole is an aesthetically conservative, nominally progressive piece of Hollywood Oscar-baiting that over time will likely come to seem as square and old fashioned as To Kill a Mockingbird (although Lee's film is considerably more interesting as storytelling and better acted). If there's a Ledger film that stands a chance of being remembered, it's Todd Haynes' I'm Not There in which he had a less substantial part. In other words, it's not the star that most hardcore cinephiles remember but the director.

[Boner M]

Stop being a headache, soori.

[Raiders]

I think of him as some one like Clark Gable or Gregory Peck who was a big star in his time but isn't much remembered today.

I'm almost certain this is false. I don't really know how to prove it, other than everyone I know knows who Paul Newman is and reveres him as a great actor. And I don't think it is because of his barbecue sauce.


In other words, it's not the star that most hardcore cinephiles remember but the director.For some, yes. For Newman, I highly doubt it.

[baby doll]

Paul Newman starred in a Hitchcock film. I would also argue that Martin Scorsese, Robert Rossen, Martin Ritt, Sidney Lumet, and Sydney Pollack were/are not really anonymous craftsman. You may not be a big fan, and most are not "auteurs," but let's not act like he was often slumming with some studio stooge.I've never seen Torn Curtain so I can't comment on it, but I'm not aware of any critic who's spoken positively of it, let alone one who considers it a major work. Nor have I seen The Colour of Money because I've never heard any one make any great claims for it. There are just too many other films out there.

I don't think I've seen any films by Martin Ritt or Robert Rossen, but on the strength of Out of Africa it seems to me that Sydney Pollack is the definition of an anonymous studio craftsman. Lumet is a strong director of actors. (Though I haven't seen The Verdict, I'm particularly fond of Dog Day Afternoon, Find Me Guilty and Before the Devil Knows You're Dead; Network is atrocious.) I'm sure they're all respectable enough directors, but apart from maybe Hitchcock (although he made a ton of crap), I wouldn't go out of my way to see one of their films simply because they directed it as I would with some one like Ozu or Preminger.

[Malickfan]

Network is atrocious.

Oh my god.

[baby doll]

I'm almost certain this is false. I don't really know how to prove it, other than everyone I know knows who Paul Newman is and reveres him as a great actor. And I don't think it is because of his barbecue sauce.Well, he made a lot of hit movies, but I wonder if cinephiles in Europe or Asia would know who he is. Looking at the old films that get revived in South Korea, it's this mix of auteurist cinema (Lang, Lubitsch, Ozu) and popular Korean films from the 60s, which of course few western people have even heard of.


For some, yes. For Newman, I highly doubt it.Apart from Hitchcock, he didn't act in any films by auteur directors. Even the Scorsese film is obviously a vehicle for Newman's star persona (and Tom Cruise's). If people go to see it, it's because they want to see a Paul Newman picture rather than a Martin Scorsese film.

[Arthur Seaton]

Well, he made a lot of hit movies, but I wonder if cinephiles in Europe or Asia would know who he is.

I now remember why you were on my ignore list on RT.

[baby doll]

Oh my god.It's a broadly conceived bit of xenophobia and women bashing that's designed to confirm the pre-Boomer generation's sense of how great they are, and after thirty minutes it starts to spin its wheels making the same points again and again.

[Raiders]

Of course, he also made two films with Robert Altman... but we're just going in circles.

I think it is safe enough to say in the pantheon of American actors, he will be remembered near the top. I imagine individual films and directors might be more revered overseas, but when looking at a body of work which is necessary in this case, I don't think it will be very debatable.

[Ivan Drago]

R.I.P. :cry:

[Kurosawa Fan]

Network is atrocious.

You are atrocious. I wish I was kidding.

[Arthur Seaton]

You are atrocious. I wish I was kidding.
Repped.

[baby doll]

Of course, he also made two films with Robert Altman... but we're just going in circles.Looking at his IMDb page, I just remembered that I have seen The Hudsucker Proxy (which I hated) and Quintet (which sounded more interesting in theory than it was). And he was in one film by Preminger, which I've been meaning to see but never found the time for (in my defense, it's almost four hours long).


I think it is safe enough to say in the pantheon of American actors, he will be remembered near the top. I imagine individual films and directors might be more revered overseas, but when looking at a body of work which is necessary in this case, I don't think it will be very debatable.Personally, my favorite actors are ones willing to take risks. Isabelle Huppert is for me the greatest of all actors because, instead of just acting in commercial films, she's appeared in some really challenging and exciting films from Loulou and Passion to La Cérémonie and La Pianiste. Did Newman take risks? Quintet certainly, but not many.

[thefourthwall]

"Next time I say let's go some place like Bolivia, let's go someplace like Bolivia."

Sigh.

I will miss him; he seemed like such a mensch. But hopefully, his jaunty-hatted visage will grace my salad dressings for years to come.

[Sven]

his films aren't on my radar.


which I'm more likely to seek out than films like The Hustler and Cool Hand Luke


I've never seen Torn Curtain so I can't comment on it


Nor have I seen The Colour of Money because I've never heard any one make any great claims for it.


I don't think I've seen any films by Martin Ritt or Robert Rossen


Though I haven't seen The Verdict


I wonder if cinephiles in Europe or Asia would know who he is.


he was in one film by Preminger, which I've been meaning to see but never found the time for

baby doll: a poster whose hearty lack of hesitance to admit ignorance on points that counter his highly-assumptive thinly-developed knee-jerk opinions should be an inspiration to us all. A poster to cherish.

[Winston*]

Paul Newman was great. This news is unsurprising but still sad. baby doll is a twat.

[Skitch]

Damn.

One half of one of my favorites is gone. The Sting. Newman, you were the man.

[Scar]

Timing is everything. And baby doll's timing is fucking atrocious.

Get the fuck out.

[number8]

Cinephiles in Asia and Europe like crappy movies anyway.

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

Cinephiles in Asia and Europe like crappy movies anyway.

yeah, American movies.

[Pop Trash]

I have to admit I haven't seen too many of his films either. Not sure why exactly. I caught part of The Hustler on TCM one time and what I saw was pretty cool. My father says Hud is great. Any other recommendations?

[Malickfan]

I have to admit I haven't seen too many of his films either. Not sure why exactly. I caught part of The Hustler on TCM one time and what I saw was pretty cool. My father says Hud is great. Any other recommendations?

Cool Hand Luke
The Verdict
Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid

[Qrazy]

I have seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and Road to Perdition (neither one any thing special), but generally speaking, his films aren't on my radar. The Hollywood stars I'm most familiar with are the ones who made films for great directors. Jimmy Stewart for instance acted in films by Alfred Hitchcock, Ernst Lubitsch and Otto Preminger, which I'm more likely to seek out than films like The Hustler and Cool Hand Luke which are regarded as classics (albeit more so than in the US than elsewhere) but were directed by anonymous craftsmen rather than a recognizable auteur.

Stop talking you're making yourself look stupid.

[Russ]

I have to admit I haven't seen too many of his films either. Not sure why exactly. I caught part of The Hustler on TCM one time and what I saw was pretty cool. My father says Hud is great. Any other recommendations?

Cool Hank Luke, The Sting, The Verdict...so many others.

Weighing in on baby doll's statement that he hasn't seen much of Newman's output (nor can make a connection to his work) because Newman didn't work with many auteurs during his career - I hope I don't piss anyone off, but this is just a pet peeve of mine: I sometimes wonder why folks like baby doll watch movies. They don't seem to get much joy out of it. Reading his words, I get the impression that his watching film is almost a chore, always seeking out the works of the most critically acclaimed directors (which is fine) and looking down their nose at everything else. It's like he's relying on the word of revered cinephiles (which, again, is great as a reference) without wanting to get his hands dirty with treating all of cinema as a journey to be experienced first-hand, without the benefit of some so-called expert's guidance. I don't know, it just seems like a lonely, soulless experience, with very little reward, outside of the clinically obsessive academic bliss. O well, c'est la vie.

[Amnesiac]

I've been wanting to watch my copy of The Color of Money for a while now but I've heard it is best to see The Hustler first. Unfortunately, I still need to pick that one up.

I really liked his role in Road to Perdition ... and while I have seen Torn Curtain, I don't remember particularly enjoying it.

So, while I'm not too well-versed in Paul Newman's work, I do hope to change that in the future. His death is understandably sad news, especially considering his status as one of the more significant and well-known icons of cinema.

[Spinal]

Weighing in on baby doll's statement that he hasn't seen much of Newman's output (nor can make a connection to his work) because Newman didn't work with many auteurs during his career - I hope I don't piss anyone off, but this is just a pet peeve of mine: I sometimes wonder why folks like baby doll watch movies. They don't seem to get much joy out of it. Reading his words, I get the impression that his watching film is almost a chore, always seeking out the works of the most critically acclaimed directors (which is fine) and looking down their nose at everything else. It's like he's relying on the word of revered cinephiles (which, again, is great as a reference) without wanting to get his hands dirty with treating all of cinema as a journey to be experienced first-hand, without the benefit of some so-called expert's guidance. I don't know, it just seems like a lonely, soulless experience, with very little reward, outside of the clinically obsessive academic bliss. O well, c'est la vie.

Absolutely. You're no better than the viewer who only consumes mainstream entertainment. You've just decided to play for the other team.

[Hugh_Grant]

baby doll, there is so much douchery in your posts that I don't even know why I'm wasting my time responding. Who cares if Paul Newman didn't work with any of your beloved auteurs? Who cares if he didn't take more risks? He's a cinema legend and his death is a great loss. I can understand if you're not a fan, or you're not that familiar with his work, but if you can't recognize him for his contribution to the medium, then you don't even deserve to call yourself a cinephile.

And if you think that Heath Ledger will be better remembered for I'm Not There than for Brokeback Mountain, well, then all I can say is you're fucking delusional.

[Raiders]

I'd prefer we not derail Newman's thread into vitriol over baby doll's lack of reverence for the actor and peculiar love of cinema.

[Watashi]

I'd prefer we not derail Newman's thread into vitriol over baby doll's lack of reverence for the actor and peculiar love of cinema.
Paranoid Park is amazing.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Paul Newman was one of the first actors that I really took notice of when I became interested in film. He also became somewhat of a bonding tool between me and my mother as he was her favourite actor, and we would watch many of his films together. I didn't necessarily grow up with his films, but during my early teenage years he was THE actor. Then, the more I learned about his life, the more I came to admire him as more than just an actor but a wonderful human being.

Back in the 70s and 80s he used to come to the Montreal Grand Prix every year, and almost everyone I know who was around during that time at least has one Newman story. My mother met him twice while working in a bookstore downtown, and she said while many celebrities would pop in, it was never as memorable as when Newman would show up. It's strange to say she passed on her affection for him as an actor, but I really think it's true.

I've been expecting this for a while, but I don't know... it still bothers me a lot. I rarely get chocked up about actor's deaths, but somehow I felt that Newman would always sorta be around. I might just have to watch the Hustler tonight, it's been so long... and it's probably my favourite of his.

[eternity]

Rest in Peace Paul, you left the world better than when you came into it in so many ways, both in giving us the pleasures we wanted through your acting, while also using all that you gained from the former to provide the world with things it needed. You're going to be missed.

[Cult]

This is really sad news. I liked him quite a bit, and he's appeared in some of my favorite movies. Plus, I loved his Sockarooni-flavored pasta sauce. That's not a joke to lighten the mood--I really loved it. And I haven't seen it yet in Canadian grocery stores. :sad:

[The Mike]

I haven't seen as many of his films as I want to, but I know he was Paul Newman, and that no one else will ever be Paul Newman again. I don't know of many "auteurs" (which is a made up term with no real qualifications anyway) whose deaths will effect as many people as Paul Newman's does.

And that's all I need to know.

[Sven]

Plus, I loved his Sockarooni-flavored pasta sauce.

At first, I read this as "I loved his Sooriyakumaran-flavored pasta sauce." That would've made this thread all kinds of more complicated.

[Robby P]

My favorite actor. Sad news, but not unexpected.

I'll add 'Cat on a Hot Tin Roof' among Newman's best performances.

[Ezee E]

Wow, I was watching Butch Cassidy on TV today.

RIP.

[Fezzik]

I have seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and Road to Perdition (neither one any thing special)

I'm practically speechless. I'll keep hoping that this was a typo - or a joke.

RIP Paul Newman. One of the few remaining classy Hollywood powerhouses has left us.

[Yum-Yum]

I just watched his magazine-based cameo in Emmanuelle. And even though his picture is only onscreen for something like three seconds, he still manages to steal the scene. R.I.P.

[bac0n]

oh bugger

[SirNewt]

I'm almost certain this is false. I don't really know how to prove it,

I believe I can help you out Raiders.

Newman was maybe the first actor that was "cool forever". What I mean is that some icons are cool only for awhile, such as Elvis. Even Deane and Sinatra sometimes fail with me but Newman, Newman is cool in every frame.

Hell, look at how much is happening and Newman's death has completely detoured CNN.

Wamu failed Thursday. I have no idea how to get to my money until Monday and it took this news to officially ruin my weekend. I'm only 22.

EDIT: In fact, I'm in a bit of denial. I truly find myself not wanting to accept this news. He's not really dead. . . sigh. . . he just seems so vital on the screen.

[Skitch]

I'm just glad we got as much out of him as we did. Imagine if he had passed way too early, ala Ledger, say, post-Butch Cassidy, or right after The Sting.

That would have been the real suck. Thanks for all the good films, Newman.

[Ivan Drago]

Wow, I knew his death would impact the movie industry, but I didn't know he had an impact on the sports industry, too. ESPN even covered his death.

[Grouchy]

I watched Hud for the first time today on a whim, and when I was about to, someone mentioned Newman was dead. I was like: "no, he's sick, but not dead yet", when they tell me he died in the last couple of days. Ain't that a downer.

I'll always remember him as one of the great actors and a screen presence that the tiny stars of today can only dream of. It doesn't matter who else is in the same frame with Newman, it's always him I'm watching. That guy really knew how to make magic with his acting.

My favorite of his movies is The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean.

[MadMan]

Truly a legend in the business. RIP.

[baby doll]

Weighing in on baby doll's statement that he hasn't seen much of Newman's output (nor can make a connection to his work) because Newman didn't work with many auteurs during his career - I hope I don't piss anyone off, but this is just a pet peeve of mine: I sometimes wonder why folks like baby doll watch movies. They don't seem to get much joy out of it. Reading his words, I get the impression that his watching film is almost a chore, always seeking out the works of the most critically acclaimed directors (which is fine) and looking down their nose at everything else. It's like he's relying on the word of revered cinephiles (which, again, is great as a reference) without wanting to get his hands dirty with treating all of cinema as a journey to be experienced first-hand, without the benefit of some so-called expert's guidance. I don't know, it just seems like a lonely, soulless experience, with very little reward, outside of the clinically obsessive academic bliss. O well, c'est la vie.I'll try to avoid saying anything else about Newman assuming there's anyone left who I haven't already alienated, but with regards to why I watch the movies, I get a great deal of pleasure out of watching good films. Now if I want to maximize my pleasure, I'll do the research--which is itself fun--and see films I expect to be good. That's not to say I love every classic (I've never understood the love for Jules et Jim) or that I don't have eccentric favorites of my own (Domino being the most obvious example). But I can't see everything and at some point you have to make a decision.

For example, the Pusan film festival starts this week, and if you read the plot descriptions in the program, every film sounds uniformly terrible. All things equal, the films that have the best chance of being good are the ones by directors whose work I know (Ceylan, Davies, Garrel) or at least know of (Hong), and films that have been well received at other festivals (Jerichow, Lost Song, Revanche). It's simply playing the odds.

In regards to "looking down my nose at everything else," I simply think we should keep things in perspective. Sidney Lumet is a very fine filmmaker, and he's made some memorable films, but does he represent the best that world cinema has to offer? He's a talented craftsman who knows how to coax strong performances from male actors (Pacino, Diesel, Seymour Hoffman), but he doesn't have a distinctive style and the quality of his work varies wildly depending on the strength of the script. At his best, he's significantly better than the vast majority of commercial hacks, but that doesn't place him quite in the same league as Bresson, Buñuel, Fassbinder, Godard, Mizoguchi or Rivette.

[Sven]

but he doesn't have a distinctive style and the quality of his work varies wildly depending on the strength of the script

Here, and in many other places, your entire position crumbles into nothingness, because Lumet DOES have a distinctive style (I remember arguing it with maxuda at some point, I think, or maybe it was you, back at an earlier site). His rhythm, framing, thematic concerns, and photographic style are completely and entirely recognizable as "Lumet".

Most of your defenses ring true: play the odds, do the research, we don't have time for every movie. I'll probably never see Joe Wright's Sense and Sensibility no matter how many people tell me I'm missing out. Key difference here: I have never made the claim that Joe Wright is not a worthy cinematician, like you have with Martin Ritt and Robert Rossen. You know why? Because I know that in order to mount a convincing argument, you have to know what you're talking about. It is clear you do not.

Showing discernment is great, and I don't see why you can't just leave it at that. Not going to see a film because you are not interested is one thing--to say that those films are inferior because you are not interested is another. You, sir, are doing the latter, and as you can tell from the reactions here, it is very, very off-putting.

[Winston*]

I'll probably never see Joe Wright's Sense and Sensibility
It's lack of existence greatly troubles me too, but regardless, I still manage to see this film every night. In my sweet, sweet dreams.

[baby doll]

Here, and in many other places, your entire position crumbles into nothingness, because Lumet DOES have a distinctive style (I remember arguing it with maxuda at some point, I think, or maybe it was you, back at an earlier site). His rhythm, framing, thematic concerns, and photographic style are completely and entirely recognizable as "Lumet".Beginning with photographic style, he's certainly not as rigorous as Wes Anderson or Ozu. 12 Angry Men opens with a ten-minute tracking shot in Wellesian deep focus (which was an option to Hollywood filmmakers in the 1950s) and then gradually Lumet raises the number of cuts and close ups in shallow focus as the drama builds. Comparatively, Welles tended toward deep focus at the beginning of his career and fast editing in the latter part of his career (no doubt as a result of making films in Europe), and he explored both approaches in greater depth than Lumet did.

In terms of thematic concerns, he does specialize in certain genres, but comparing 12 Angry Men, a dated liberal message picture with Henry Fonda as a white knight, and the vastly superior Find Me Guilty, with its great performance by Vin Diesel, as this guy who is such a dope and thinks everybody loves him (and in fact, the whole point of the film is that he has no love in his life) and ends up taking the wrap for everything, the two are virtually antithetical. One is square and is supposed to make us feel very noble and virtuous, while the other is much more cynical.


Most of your defenses ring true: play the odds, do the research, we don't have time for every movie. I'll probably never see Joe Wright's Sense and Sensibility no matter how many people tell me I'm missing out. Key difference here: I have never made the claim that Joe Wright is not a worthy cinematician, like you have with Martin Ritt and Robert Rossen. You know why? Because I know that in order to mount a convincing argument, you have to know what you're talking about. It is clear you do not.You can extrapolate. I've only seen five Lumet films, and my sense is that he's talented but not as singular in his photographic style or thematic concerns as, say, Stanley Kubrick who started directing films at about the same time. In the case of Ritt and Rossen, they're only known for these two films which suggests the films' reputation as classics have more to do with script and performance than style.


Showing discernment is great, and I don't see why you can't just leave it at that. Not going to see a film because you are not interested is one thing--to say that those films are inferior because you are not interested is another. You, sir, are doing the latter, and as you can tell from the reactions here, it is very, very off-putting.I'll make a note of it. I don't want to be off-putting.

[Boner M]

Network is pretty bad (and I like Lumet).

[Sven]

It's lack of existence greatly troubles me too, but regardless, I still manage to see this film every night. In my sweet, sweet dreams.

D'oh! Pride and Prejudice.

[Amnesiac]

What is so bad about Network?

[number8]

What is so bad about Network?

It has no ninjas. Other than that, it's an almost perfect movie. But yeah, if there were ninjas...

[Wryan]

I love 12 Angry Men so much. And I like Network just fine. And Paul Newman will be missed, but his work can't be erased. And soori's fine for expressing his opinion, though he does it in his, ahem, distinctive style.

Newman also worked with Robert Wise, Arthur Penn, Leo McCarey, Mark Robson and John Huston--few, if any, pure auteurs, but good/great directors all. He turned in plenty of great performances in the way that Cary Grant and Jimmy Stewart turned in plenty of great performances.

And please, folks, let's not forget Slap Shot.

[Raiders]

On behalf of Match Cut, I would like to apologize to the spectre of Paul Newman.

[Sven]

In terms of thematic concerns, he does specialize in certain genres, but comparing 12 Angry Men, a dated liberal message picture with Henry Fonda as a white knight, and the vastly superior Find Me Guilty, with its great performance by Vin Diesel, as this guy who is such a dope and thinks everybody loves him (and in fact, the whole point of the film is that he has no love in his life) and ends up taking the wrap for everything, the two are virtually antithetical. One is square and is supposed to make us feel very noble and virtuous, while the other is much more cynical.

The Beatles did this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cFJTauCdCE) and this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LoYM5OWIqI). Diametrically opposed thematically, yet both songs are unquestionably The Beatles.


You can extrapolate. I've only seen five Lumet films, and my sense is that he's talented but not as singular in his photographic style or thematic concerns as, say, Stanley Kubrick who started directing films at about the same time. In the case of Ritt and Rossen, they're only known for these two films which suggests the films' reputation as classics have more to do with script and performance than style.

Again, extrapolation is fine. Discernment is fine. Expressing doubt and hesitance is fine. But you're stating your assumptions like facts ("Ritt and Rossen are only as good as their scripts" says the man who has never seen a Ritt or Rossen film) and that's maddening.

[Grouchy]

doll, just quit this round and you'll earn some respect. It's very obvious that you're wrong and that you know nothing about anything.

[Scar]

And please, folks, let's not forget Slap Shot.

I'm a bad man, I have never seen Slap Shot.

Rest assurred, it is at the top of my queue, listed as 'short wait'.

[Qrazy]

Network is pretty bad (and I like Lumet).

Or one of the great American films and probably Lumet's best film.

[Qrazy]

You can extrapolate. I've only seen five Lumet films, and my sense is that he's talented but not as singular in his photographic style or thematic concerns as, say, Stanley Kubrick who started directing films at about the same time. In the case of Ritt and Rossen, they're only known for these two films which suggests the films' reputation as classics have more to do with script and performance than style.

I'll make a note of it. I don't want to be off-putting.

This is why you fail. You're not saying anything about the quality of the films, you're simply equating auteur with good which is a flawed if not simply faulty relation. I'll take Rossen's best work over many more obvious examples of auteur filmmaking.

Furthermore your argument breaks down even before this because you're incorrect when you say Lumet is not an auteur. For many of us (fans and critics alike... there's plenty of essays on Lumet as an auteur) he has a perfectly distinctive style and prevalent thematic concerns, which is what it means to be an auteur.

[Watashi]

Network is pretty bad (and I like Lumet).
Oh hell no.

Even you can't make a stupid claim like that.

[Skitch]

What is going on here? I love Network...probably Lumet's best work!

Strange. I never thought of that as an odd stance to take.

[Boner M]

Oh hell no.

Even you can't make a stupid claim like that.
Whaddya mean 'even me'?!

I found Network monotonously shrill and far too in love with its supposed subversiveness. Admittedly though, I don't have much memory of it.

[Qrazy]

What is going on here? I love Network...probably Lumet's best work!

Strange. I never thought of that as an odd stance to take.

Anywhere but Match-cut it isn't.