Spike Lee vs. Clint Eastwood

[Qrazy]

So they like to yell at each other... but who is the better filmmaker? Vote.

[EyesWideOpen]

Clint Eastwood is a decent filmmaker but Spike Lee by a huge margin.

[Watashi]

Spike Lee.

[Yxklyx]

So they like to yell at each other... but who is the better filmmaker? Vote.

I think Scorsese's next film should be a boxing movie - Eastwood vs Lee.

I prefer Eastwood. Other than DTRT, I'm not a fan of Lee.

[Ezee E]

Pretty damn tough.

Draw.

[Amnesiac]

Oddly enough, I've never seen a single Spike Lee film.

Yeah .... I should probably get on that. Miracle At St. Anna looks intriguing but it's likely not the best starting place.

[The Mike]

Outside of Inside Man, I've never seen a Lee film I've liked. Not in a rush to seek out more either.

Eastwood made Unforgiven and Play Misty for Me. Winner.

[Yxklyx]

For me it comes down to:

Eastwood:
High Plains Drifter
The Outlaw Josey Wales
Unforgiven

Lee:
Do the Right Thing
25th Hour

While I love DTRT a lot more than all of Eastwood's films, those three Westerns are more solid than 25th Hour. For me, Lee just had one excellent film in him while Eastwood has had more than a few good ones.

[The Mike]

I forgot about High Plains Drifter. Love it.

[transmogrifier]

Lee. I prefer his balls-to-the-wall, anything goes aesthetic, though Eastwood has made a couple of great films.

[Spinal]

Spike Lee. Not close.

[Malickfan]

Ugh. I'll give Eastwood the edge due to Pale Rider.

I too am actually intrigued a bit by Miracle At St. Anna.

[SirNewt]

It's on the merits of Unforgiven alone but I have to give it to Eastwood.

EDIT: The again if St. Anna is good it might put Lee over the top.

EDIT: Oh wait Lee made Inside Man, nevermind, Eastwood for sure.

[The Mike]

Also, Clint Eastwood = coolest dude ever. Spike Lee = Coolest Knicks fan ever.

Fail.

[soitgoes...]

Eastwood has been great more often, but he's more of a crapshoot than Lee, who is more consistent (Girl 6 excepted.) I think though, that by the time Lee reaches Eastwood's age, that he will be better in my eyes.

[D_Davis]

I find Spike Lee far more interesting.

[Ezee E]

Thinking about it...

Although Eastwood has made more consistently good films, I think I would prefer a "who knows what you'll get" type of approach from Spike Lee.

Spike. Even though he is a big jerk.

[Derek]

Spike Lee by a small margin.

[number8]

Dunno, but I like Eastwood's acting better.

[Sycophant]

Spike Lee. I've seen much more of his filmography, actually. And while I love films by both of them, Lee takes it.

[baby doll]

Spike Lee in an interesting filmmaker. Eastwood is a competent but impersonal commercial director.

[EyesWideOpen]

Dunno, but I like Eastwood's acting better.

Well obviously. Eastwood is foremost an "actor" and Spike Lee just acts in some of his movies.

[Sven]

Dunno, but I like Eastwood's acting better.

I'm the exact opposite. I love Spike Lee's acting. It's so much fun. His delivery is great.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Spike Lee by a slim margin.

[Robby P]

Spike Lee by a substantial margin.

[Grouchy]

Problem is, I've only seen 25th Hour and Inside Man from Lee. I liked both a lot, but I have a very limited spectrum.

I've seen a lot more from the Eastman, so I have a lot favorites on his side.

[DavidSeven]

"Better" isn't really applicable here. Both are technically competent enough.

Lee is more interesting. He comments on more intriguing subject matter, and his filming and cutting technique is far more dynamic. That being said, Eastwood would never make something as bad as some of the dreck that Lee has produced.

[Qrazy]

Problem is, I've only seen 25th Hour and Inside Man from Lee. I liked both a lot, but I have a very limited spectrum.

I've seen a lot more from the Eastman, so I have a lot favorites on his side.

See Do the Right Thing man I think you'd love it.

[Pop Trash]

Miracle at Saint Anna is getting some terrible reviews. Especially for a movie that seems so Oscar baity.

[Dukefrukem]

What did everyone think of Million Dollar Baby and Mystic River?

On top of Unforgiven, I've enjoyed Eastwood's films much more than Lees.

[Malickfan]

I thought both Million Dollar Baby and Mystic River were overrrated.

[dreamdead]

I thought both Million Dollar Baby and Mystic River were overrrated.

This is empty rhetoric.

Were the films guilty of manipulative cinematic and narrative techniques, were the two films' ideologies rendered in broad strokes and minus any sense of a true diatectical engagement with the ideas presented, or were the stories simply flat and insipid? Without any detail or further exposition, you're speaking in nothings that don't enable any reader to better understand your contentions. Detail...

[Qrazy]

What did everyone think of Million Dollar Baby and Mystic River?


I thought they were garbage.

[Qrazy]

This is empty rhetoric.

Were the films guilty of manipulative cinematic and narrative techniques, were the two films' ideologies rendered in broad strokes and minus any sense of a true diatectical engagement with the ideas presented, or were the stories simply flat and insipid? Without any detail or further exposition, you're speaking in nothings that don't enable any reader to better understand your contentions. Detail...

He conveyed his dislike of the films, which was all the question demanded. I don't find any of your additions add all that much in the way of explanation, so unless he plans to get into a detailed conversation about the specific faults and merits of the film, why not just leave it as a succinct value judgment to begin with.

[D_Davis]

Mystic Rive stank like a pile of maggot infested, dog-crap encrusted, decaying, moldy king salmon laying in a pool of horse urine, and watching Million Dollar Baby was as pleasant as having a 2 1/4'', rusty, dull nail hammered into my taint by a left handed, redheaded, boy named Stan.

That enough detail?

[Malickfan]

And Sean Penn should have won for 21 Grams instead of Mystic River.

[Watashi]

Mystic River is amazing filmmaking.

[dreamdead]

He conveyed his dislike of the films, which was all the question demanded. I don't find any of your additions add all that much in the way of explanation, so unless he plans to get into a detailed conversation about the specific faults and merits of the film, why not just leave it as a succinct value judgment to begin with.

As signifiers of "dislike" go, saying that some film is "overrated" without giving any more detail as to why you feel it's overrated is just generic posting. Now, if it's buttressed with any extension of thought by pointing out that it's overrated by the critical consensus or comparing that film to a different film that tackles those themes better... then we're getting somewhere in a discussion. But saying that something's overrated and leaving your post at that means that that point exists even though it's devoid of critical thought.

Otherwise, we get stuck in an exchange that goes no further than "The Thin Red Line is overrated," "Tarkovsky is overrated," or "Classical Hollywood cinema is overrated."

[Winston*]

Mystic Rive stank like a pile of maggot infested, dog-crap encrusted, decaying, moldy king salmon laying in a pool of horse urine, and watching Million Dollar Baby was as pleasant as having a 2 1/4'', rusty, dull nail hammered into my taint by a left handed, redheaded, boy named Stan.

That enough detail?

Yeah! And they're overrated because critics are smelly shitheads who shit out their butts.

[Qrazy]

As signifiers of "dislike" go, saying that some film is "overrated" without giving any more detail as to why you feel it's overrated is just generic posting. Now, if it's buttressed with any extension of thought by pointing out that it's overrated by the critical consensus or comparing that film to a different film that tackles those themes better... then we're getting somewhere in a discussion. But saying that something's overrated and leaving your post at that means that that point exists even though it's devoid of critical thought.

Otherwise, we get stuck in an exchange that goes no further than "The Thin Red Line is overrated," "Tarkovsky is overrated," or "Classical Hollywood cinema is overrated."

Well I took his post to mean overrated in relation to Academy voters and the general populace... if someone were to say Tarkovsky is overrated I would take that to mean in relation to certain circles of cineastes. Yeah such a statement isn't a springboard for discussion this is true, but perhaps in some cases the discussion doesn't need to go any further. I suppose we could have a detailed conversation about the pros and cons of Mystic River and Million Dollar Baby, but I certainly don't want to... in this instance I"m content to know where people stand on these particular films on a purely binary level... like/dislike.

[Qrazy]

Yeah! And they're overrated because critics are smelly shitheads who shit out their butts.

And their butts are their heads?

[Ezee E]

Mystic River is amazing filmmaking.
Sane statement right here.

[Malickfan]

As signifiers of "dislike" go, saying that some film is "overrated" without giving any more detail as to why you feel it's overrated is just generic posting. Now, if it's buttressed with any extension of thought by pointing out that it's overrated by the critical consensus or comparing that film to a different film that tackles those themes better... then we're getting somewhere in a discussion. But saying that something's overrated and leaving your post at that means that that point exists even though it's devoid of critical thought.

Otherwise, we get stuck in an exchange that goes no further than "The Thin Red Line is overrated," "Tarkovsky is overrated," or "Classical Hollywood cinema is overrated."

I explained part of my usual dislike of Eastwood films in the Changeling thread. I see nothing to get excited about the films that he directs (for the most part). Looks like normal paint by numbers direction to me. In terms of Dennis Lehane material, I like Gone Baby Gone more than Mystic River.

They're just average movies...but Clint's name and long career add an extra star or two to their ratings.

[Raiders]

Mystic River is amazing filmmaking.

Of all the hyperbole being thrown around, this is closest to the truth.

[transmogrifier]

Mystic River is amazing filmmaking.


It's solid filmmaking with a pleasing thematic edge, but amazing?

The answer is no.

[Grouchy]

I thought Mystic River was very good, but not Million Dollar Baby. It's just melodramatic and heavy-nuanced, particularly the bit with the girl's family. It's funny because when I think of how nuanced the story for River was, it's almost like they were directed by two different Eastwoods.

Will watch Do the Right Thing, Qrazy.

[baby doll]

And Sean Penn should have won for 21 Grams instead of Mystic River.That movie sucked. At least Mystic River was passable as hackwork.

[baby doll]

when I think of how nuanced the story for River was..."That's... My... DDDAAAUUUGGGHHHTTTEEERRR!!!"

[Qrazy]

That movie sucked. At least Mystic River was passable as hackwork.

While Innaritu is narratively/thematically overwraught at least he has some visual and stylistic verve and some poetry to his achronological amalgamation. I can't say I have any aesthetic resonance with Eastwood's work.

[Pop Trash]

Baby Doll sure likes to shit on a lot of movies lately.

[Qrazy]

Baby Doll sure likes to shit on a lot of movies lately.

Lately?

[Pop Trash]

Lately?
Well I'm sure he has always held most modern American films in total contempt but he seems to be especially PMSy lately about it. Did Ron Howard punch his grandma or something?

[transmogrifier]

Well I'm sure he has always held most modern American films in total contempt but he seems to be especially PMSy lately about it. Did Ron Howard punch his grandma or something?

I think deep down, Ron Howard has punched everyone's grandma.

[baby doll]

While Innaritu is narratively/thematically overwraught at least he has some visual and stylistic verve and some poetry to his achronological amalgamation. I can't say I have any aesthetic resonance with Eastwood's work.Amores Perros is an interesting film but his subsequent work is less of the same.

[Grouchy]

"That's... My... DDDAAAUUUGGGHHHTTTEEERRR!!!"
So? I was speaking about the story. Nuance doesn't mean subtle acting in any way.

You sure make a lot of semantic mistakes.

[baby doll]

So? I was speaking about the story. Nuance doesn't mean subtle acting in any way.

You sure make a lot of semantic mistakes.I think the two can't be seperated so easily. The performances underline every single point the film wants to make. Tim Robbins isn't just traumatized; every childlike line delivery cries out, "My character was raped as a child and it had a really big emotional impact on him!" Laura Linney doesn't just stand by her man; she's Lady freakin' MacBeth. Hell, even Lady MacBeth started to unravel after they murdered the king--or at least that's how it worked out in the Polanski version.

In terms of whether Sean Penn does the right thing, it's obvious he doesn't. He beats Robbins' character into a confession and then murders him for something he didn't do. (This guy just can't catch a break.) When Linney says he's right even when he's wrong, she comes off like a total whack job, and her icy delivery only confirms this.