The Untouchables

[B-side]

Let's hear some opinions on this.

[balmakboor]

Let's hear some opinions on this.

A well made movie that has always been for me one of De Palma's least interesting.

[Qrazy]

I have little love for it or anything I've ever seen from De Palma. I still return to him though because he does have some formal talents.

[Morris Schæffer]

One of my ten favorite movies and easily my fave De Palma. The weak link is De Niro as Capone, but this isn't really his story nor did he seem like the kind of guy who got his hands dirty. Which is another way of saying that his cronies in this one, despicable Billy Drago at the front, are a nasty bunch and make up for De Niro's somewhat caricatural turn as Capone.

I don't know what else to say really. Seeing the indifference regarding this movie on discussion boards is just one of those huge question marks. Art design is fantastic, Morricone is firing on all cylinders, De Palma is too (the train station and first-person invasion of Malone's house are show-stoppers), and Connery's Oirishman might just be my fave male supporting performance ever.

To be honest, there's a bunch of De Palma movies I haven't yet seen, but is it wrong to say that I don't believe for a second they will supplant the 1987 flick as my favorite of his? Femme Fatale?

It just flatout hurts to see ultra-mediocre stuff like Mission to Mars placed ahead of The Untouchables.

EDIT: And David motherfucking Mamet too!

[Morris Schæffer]

This is from you over at RT:


Even despite the painful music, the awkward close-ups, the silly, over the top acting, the baby on the steps sequence using the slow-mo?

None of this makes any sense to me. You don't have to like it, but none of this makes any sense.

[balmakboor]

One of my ten favorite movies and easily my fave De Palma. The weak link is De Niro as Capone, but this isn't really his story nor did he seem like the kind of guy who got his hands dirty. Which is another way of saying that his cronies in this one, despicable Billy Drago at the front, are a nasty bunch and make up for De Niro's somewhat caricatural turn as Capone.

I don't know what else to say really. Seeing the indifference regarding this movie on discussion boards is just one of those huge question marks. Art design is fantastic, Morricone is firing on all cylinders, De Palma is too (the train station and first-person invasion of Malone's house are show-stoppers), and Connery's Oirishman might just be my fave male supporting performance ever.

To be honest, there's a bunch of De Palma movies I haven't yet seen, but is it wrong to say that I don't believe for a second they will supplant the 1987 flick as my favorite of his? Femme Fatale?

It just flatout hurts to see ultra-mediocre stuff like Mission to Mars placed ahead of The Untouchables.

EDIT: And David motherfucking Mamet too!

I agree with everything you've said about The Untouchables (heck, I own it on DVD) and yet it just doesn't hold the fascination and pleasure for me that so many other De Palmas do. My top ones are:

Sisters, Carrie, Dressed to Kill, Blow Out, Body Double, Scarface, Snake Eyes, Raising Cain, Carlito's Way, Femme Fatale, Casualties of War, The Black Dahlia, Redacted, and, yes, Mission to Mars

And yes, there are a few in that list that are almost universally reviled.

[Qrazy]

This is from you over at RT:



None of this makes any sense to me. You don't have to like it, but none of this makes any sense.

Everything except the music comment makes sense to me. Morricone is the man.

[balmakboor]

This is from you over at RT:

None of this makes any sense to me. You don't have to like it, but none of this makes any sense.

De Palma has paid homage to a lot of films in his day and I'm right there with him most of the time, but that Odessa Steps bit in The Untouchables just felt totally unnecessary to me.

[B-side]

This is from you over at RT:

None of this makes any sense to me. You don't have to like it, but none of this makes any sense.

I should add that the music itself is great, it's the placement within the film. It feels at odds with the film.

[Morris Schæffer]

De Palma has paid homage to a lot of films in his day and I'm right there with him most of the time, but that Odessa Steps bit in The Untouchables just felt totally unnecessary to me.

Most of the people I know wouldn't even make the connection to the Eisenstein movie nor would they even be aware that the 1925 movie exists. I've seen it, didn't fall head over in heels in love with it which might explain why I'm awed by The Untouchables sequence a lot more than you. I just love how, accompanied to Morricone's music, which at this stage is more of a sinister sound, it builds and builds and builds and then explodes into an orgy of slow-motion and violence. I thought it was different enough from the Eisenstein movie which was more like actual footage. This one is more operatic, more orchestrated, but orchestrated to perfection. No?

But I'm not the resident go-to guy when it comes to silent movies. :)


I should add that the music itself is great, it's the placement within the film. It feels at odds with the film.

That's fair(er) I suppose.:) I guess I totally love its melodramatic qualities as well as that dadedum-da-dum thingie.

[Qrazy]

Most of the people I know wouldn't even make the connection to the Eisenstein movie nor would they even be aware that the 1925 movie exists. I've seen it, didn't fall head over in heels in love with it which might explain why I'm awed by The Untouchables sequence a lot more than you. I just love how, accompanied to Morricone's music, which at this stage is more of a sinister sound, it builds and builds and builds and then explodes into an orgy of slow-motion and violence. I thought it was different enough from the Eisenstein movie which was more like actual footage. This one is more operatic, more orchestrated, but orchestrated to perfection. No?

But I'm not the resident go-to guy when it comes to silent movies. :)



That's fair(er) I suppose.:) I guess I totally love its melodramatic qualities as well as that dadedum-da-dum thingie.

I thought the scene would actually have worked better if it hadn't been total slo-motion. For me it didn't allow the building score to fully explode nor did alternatively possess an air of tragic inevitability (Carlito's Way) because nothing all that bad happened to the good guys there. It would have worked better imo if it had either mixed slo-mo and real time footage or if it had used slo-mo just before the actual shots are fired and then gone to real time. Perhaps don't even use slo-mo just draw out the scene Godfather style (Michael on the stairs of the hospital or Michael's first killing in the restaurant) and then punch the scene with explosive violence.

The Connery death sequence was the highlight of the film for me... the horse back riding and rooftop set pieces did nothing for me.

[Grouchy]

I think it's a great movie, very entertaining. Obviously a Hollywood effort from De Palma, but that doesn't lessen its impact. It was the first movie of his I saw, when I was like 8 or 9 years old. Rewatching it when I was older, I found something satiric in the way the main antagonists are introduced - Capone appears on screen like he's going to eat the world, with nothing to hide, while the first frame with Ness shows him looking away from the screen, worried about how his tie is going to look. Also, that ending line, "I'll have a drink". I have the feeling De Palma had a lot of fun with this one.

One thing I don't like either, though, is De Niro as Capone. He is very good in the role, but he doesn't look at all like you'd expect Capone to look, history-wise. He's also way too much of a clown. He doesn't convey the intelligence a Mafia lord should have.

[number8]

It's pretty bad. Mamet's script is atrocious. I think DePalma wanted it to have a pulp novel feel or something, but it just ends up being ridiculous. That whole showdown at the courthouse makes me roll my eyes, and the famous Potemkin steps scene is really not that great.

The only good thing is the score, but you know, that's a given.

[Rowland]

I'm not a fan.

[Benny Profane]

Prohibition was so stupid it's difficult to be on the side of law enforcement. I ended up rooting for Capone and since that most likely wasn't DePalma/Mamet's intention it felt awkward. Costner and Connery chewing scenery can never compare to DeNiro anyway.

[Grouchy]

Prohibition was so stupid it's difficult to be on the side of law enforcement. I ended up rooting for Capone and since that most likely wasn't DePalma/Mamet's intention it felt awkward. Costner and Connery chewing scenery can never compare to DeNiro anyway.
That's what I'm arguing, that the script by Mamet and the direction by De Palma don't overlook the fact that prohibition is stupid and that the law becomes a burocratic affair - Capone is convicted for avoiding taxes when none can find proves of the murders ordered by him.

I see that subtext in the closing lines and the constant mocking of Ness.

[Qrazy]

Prohibition was so stupid it's difficult to be on the side of law enforcement. I ended up rooting for Capone and since that most likely wasn't DePalma/Mamet's intention it felt awkward. Costner and Connery chewing scenery can never compare to DeNiro anyway.

Well yes and no, I think it's actually a reasonable thematic point that no matter how disagreeable a law may seem, it's the job of law enforcement to enforce it. So while Ness and we may not believe in prohibition, they do believe in putting a stop to the violence and unlawfulness surrounding it. It's a bit like the black market during times of war, they serve a purpose and sometimes a good one but often there's also someone at the top exploiting everyone for extreme personal gain. I may not agree with Sir Thomas Moore's position in A Man for All Seasons, but his perseverance and tenacity for what he believes in is to be admired.

[BIOspasm]

Its no Carlito's Way but its a good film.

[Qrazy]

Its no Carlito's Way but its a good film.

Carlito's Way isn't that great either. Although it does have it's moments like most De Palma (love that tracking shot where Pacino is walking away in the alley... the old moves coming back to me).

[megladon8]

Al Capone's favorite beer is my favorite beer.

[number8]

I like Prohibition (the beer, not the law).

[B-side]

Well yes and no, I think it's actually a reasonable thematic point that no matter how disagreeable a law may seem, it's the job of law enforcement to enforce it. So while Ness and we may not believe in prohibition, they do believe in putting a stop to the violence and unlawfulness surrounding it. It's a bit like the black market during times of war, they serve a purpose and sometimes a good one but often there's also someone at the top exploiting everyone for extreme personal gain. I may not agree with Sir Thomas Moore's position in A Man for All Seasons, but his perseverance and tenacity for what he believes in is to be admired.

It's an excellent thematic point, I wholeheartedly agree, but it's not explored or hardly even approached in the film. There's passing mentions of how most of them drink anyway, but it doesn't go any further. Fun films can still have something to say, and this one didn't.

[Grouchy]

Well yes and no, I think it's actually a reasonable thematic point that no matter how disagreeable a law may seem, it's the job of law enforcement to enforce it. So while Ness and we may not believe in prohibition, they do believe in putting a stop to the violence and unlawfulness surrounding it. It's a bit like the black market during times of war, they serve a purpose and sometimes a good one but often there's also someone at the top exploiting everyone for extreme personal gain. I may not agree with Sir Thomas Moore's position in A Man for All Seasons, but his perseverance and tenacity for what he believes in is to be admired.
Well, yeah, that goes without saying. Aside from Hoover, the cops on the task force were after Capone mainly for the murders.