Dario Argento

[MacGuffin]

I've only seen Suspiria, but it's probably one of the most frightening movies I have ever seen. I'm going to rent Deep Red and Tenebre from Netflix next. What else should I see? Discuss the man's work!

[megladon8]

Opera is great as well.

And apparently The Bird With the Crystal Plumage is quite good, but I have not seen it.

[MacGuffin]

Opera is great as well.

And apparently The Bird With the Crystal Plumage is quite good, but I have not seen it.

I've heard Opera is great, so I may go in that direction after these two. I also think Inferno sounds interesting (have you seen it?).

I will now link to Slant's article and review archive called Dario Argento's Dreams. http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/features/darioargento.asp

[megladon8]

I've heard Opera is great, so I may go in that direction after these two. I also think Inferno sounds interesting (have you seen it?).

I will now link to Slant's article and review archive called Dario Argento's Dreams. http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/features/darioargento.asp


No, I haven't seen Inferno. Unfortunately my experience with Argento has been pretty limited - which is weird, because I've loved most everything I've seen.

Suspiria - 10
Deep Red - 10
Tenebre - 7.5
Opera - 8

If you're interested in Italian horror, you should also check out Mario Bava, who I'd say is actually better than Argento.

Bava's film Bay of Blood (aka Twitch of the Death Nerve) was remade nearly verbatim with Friday the 13th Part II.

[MacGuffin]

No, I haven't seen Inferno. Unfortunately my experience with Argento has been pretty limited - which is weird, because I've loved most everything I've seen.

Suspiria - 10
Deep Red - 10
Tenebre - 7.5
Opera - 8

If you're interested in Italian horror, you should also check out Mario Bava, who I'd say is actually better than Argento.

Bava's film Bay of Blood (aka Twitch of the Death Nerve) was remade nearly verbatim with Friday the 13th Part II.

I've only seen Black Sunday by Mario Bava, but it's one of my top five favorite horror movies; I've seen it twice. It has this brilliant sense of brooding style that I just love, so beautifully dreadful I guess you could say. From just that I can see he's a brilliant director, and those sets are top notch. Have you seen it?

[megladon8]

I've only seen Black Sunday by Mario Bava, but it's one of my top five favorite horror movies; I've seen it twice. It has this brilliant sense of brooding style that I just love, so beautifully dreadful I guess you could say. From just that I can see he's a brilliant director, and those sets are top notch. Have you seen it?


Yes, Black Sunday would also be in my top 5 or 10 horror films. I would say it is the definitive gothic horror.

Also check out Bava's Blood and Black Lace. It's a giallo from the '60s, and it has some surprisingly brutal kills. One involves a woman being strangled and her head slammed against a tree trunk, and it actually made me cringe.

Plus, how could anyone ignore a DVD this gorgeous?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YFRE0DM8L._SS500_.jpg

[Melville]

If I hated Suspiria, which I did, should I still check out Deep Red? After seeing it on Derek's top 100, and seeing Boner's high score for it, I'm wondering if it will be more to my liking. (I think I might have asked this question before, but I can't remember.)

[Sven]

If I hated Suspiria, which I did, should I still check out Deep Red? After seeing it on Derek's top 100, and seeing Boner's high score for it, I'm wondering if it will be more to my liking. (I think I might have asked this question before, but I can't remember.)

Yeah. They're kinda apples and oranges a bit. Still has the same baroque setpieces (only they're a bit more present and a bit crazier in Deep Red), but Deep Red is kind of explicitly "arty", in that its themes of eyeballs and watching and memory are much more prevalent, making it more "about something" than the vivid fantasia of Suspiria. I like 'em about equal.

[Melville]

making it more "about something" than the vivid fantasia of Suspiria.
Sweet. I love things about things.

[Boner M]

Deep Red is awesome, but the baffling scenes of playful banter and battle of the sexes humor between Nicolodi and Hemmings pretty much derail the film for a portion of it. I don't know if you'll like Argento much, Melville, but I think that's the one you'd probably like the most, for the reasons iosos states.

Also, I prefer Phenomena to Suspiria as far as all-out phantasmagorias go. It's way goofier, but its nightmare logic strikes a greater chord with me.

[kidc85]

Opera is completely awesome, probably even better than Suspiria. I love Argento's use of POV shots during murder sequences. None of this hypocritical nonsense in some horror movies, where they claim to be decrying violence (check most serial killer movies): Argento knows we love the violence and completely implicates us in the horror. It makes Argento's movies far more open to accusations of depravity, but they're also so fantasy-driven I think it's hard to take this accusation seriously (the horrors in Argento movies have precious little to do with real-world horrors).

[Beau]

I've only seen Suspiria, but it's probably one of the most frightening movies I have ever seen. I'm going to rent Deep Red and Tenebre from Netflix next. What else should I see? Discuss the man's work!

To be completely honest, I did not really find it "frightening." I think it's too artful and pleasingly dreamlike to scare me, or anything of the sort. I really enjoyed it, though - but more as a schizophrenic opera, with blood-splatter instead of singing.

[Grouchy]

To be completely honest, I did not really find it "frightening." I think it's too artful and pleasingly dreamlike to scare me, or anything of the sort. I really enjoyed it, though - but more as a schizophrenic opera, with blood-splatter instead of singing.
It's weird, because I've seen Suspiria 3 times and was scared to different degrees every time, more than with any other Horror film. It's not the killings, though, it's the atmosphere and Goblin music which do it for me. There's something threatening about the film as a whole which makes it effectively scary for me.

[Beau]

It's weird, because I've seen Suspiria 3 times and was scared to different degrees every time, more than with any other Horror film. It's not the killings, though, it's the atmosphere and Goblin music which do it for me. There's something threatening about the film as a whole which makes it effectively scary for me.

Mmmh. I can understand how it might come across as unnerving. The color palette, the angled shapes (it's almost like the architecture itself becomes a dangerous entity), the music, the disorientation - it's all very disarming. I suppose that, for me, it was an experience that was simultaneously distant and intimate. That is, I viewed it from an aesthetic perspective and enjoyed its physical beauty. Yet I was entranced by the uncanny mood that you perceived. The difference is that you found it terrifying and I found it akin to a waking dream.

[megladon8]

My first viewing of Suspiria would rank in my "top 10 most memorable film viewings of all time".

I was actually thinking of doing a list like this. Not necessarily favorite movies - hell some of them I might not even like all that much - but they were memorable viewings in my life.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I've only seen Suspiria, but it's probably one of the most frightening movies I have ever seen. I'm going to rent Deep Red and Tenebre from Netflix next. What else should I see? Discuss the man's work!

Those are the three I've seen. I have more on my Netflix queue. Out of those three, I thought Suspiria was awesome, Deep Red was very good, and Tenebrae was alright.

My dad hated Suspiria. Said it didn't make any damn sense. I had no counterargument.

:)

[Sven]

I just watched The Card Player. Utterly asinine, and the first half is the definition of "drag". An affront to intelligence, all around. However, the latter half contains a few spooky things that nearly redeem it (love the bit with Remo in the water and the twisty snaking through the garden followed by the spiky payoff was excellent), and the opening credits were awesome.

Still, yawn.

[MacGuffin]

I just watched The Card Player. Utterly asinine, and the first half is the definition of "drag". And affront to intelligence, all around. However, the latter half contains a few spooky things that nearly redeem it (love the bit with Remo in the water and the twisty snaking through the garden followed by the spiky payoff was excellent), and the opening credits were awesome.

Still, yawn.

I've heard it is one of his worst. But he's fast become a favorite of mine and I have seen his major works now. Deep Red is one of the best movies I've ever seen.

Deep Red (1975) 10.0
Suspiria (1977) 9.5
Tenebrae (1982) 9.5
Opera (1987) 5.0

Next stop: Inferno.

[megladon8]

My dad bought this for me today, with a note attached...

"For an awesome wedding M.C.!" (I was recently the M.C. at my brother's wedding).

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BNAnmug5L._SS500_.jpg

[MacGuffin]

Next stop: Inferno.

I actually am likely going to go with Phenomena next since I haven't heard too many good things about Inferno.

[Yxklyx]

I just watched Inferno. Very striking visually and with good music but where's the story? Lots of snippets here and there of one but nothing much ever comes together and the only thing that does comes off very poorly at the end. 7/10

[MacGuffin]

but where's the story?

Really? I was always told movies didn't necessarily need stories. Oh well.

Edit: By the way, I looked at the Dario Argento movies you've seen on your website. Are you getting these from Netflix? For some reason, the ones I have gotten from there including Tenebrae which looked like a vhs tape and even had an audio calibration thing at the bottom in one sequence, Deep Red which I had to buy because it had no subtitles are all terrible transfers and miscellaneous others I have read in user reviews don't sound much better.

[Yxklyx]

Really? I was always told movies didn't necessarily need stories. Oh well.

Edit: By the way, I looked at the Dario Argento movies you've seen on your website. Are you getting these from Netflix? For some reason, the ones I have gotten from there including Tenebrae which looked like a vhs tape and even had an audio calibration thing at the bottom in one sequence, Deep Red which I had to buy because it had no subtitles are all terrible transfers and miscellaneous others I have read in user reviews don't sound much better.

Well, if you have no story then you better have something else. All indications were that there was to be a story but what we get are only impressions of one.

Yeah, from Netflix. I don't recall any issues with Tenebrae. The first time I got Deep Red it was from Netflix, I couldn't watch it because the dubbing kept switching between English and Italian. I think the second time I rented from a local store and I think the dubbing problem was still there but I watched it anyway.

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, from Netflix. I don't recall any issues with Tenebrae. The first time I got Deep Red it was from Netflix, I couldn't watch it because the dubbing kept switching between English and Italian. I think the second time I rented from a local store and I think the dubbing problem was still there but I watched it anyway.

Ah, that's good. Looking at your movie list, it is good to see the others are watchable. The recent Blue Underground release of Deep Red has subtitles for the segments that aren't dubbed in English.

[balmakboor]

I need to get around to Argento. All I've seen is Deep Red -- on a crappy VHS bootleg -- and I liked it quite a bit. It reminded me of Blow Up quite a bit.

[D_Davis]

Yeah, from Netflix. I don't recall any issues with Tenebrae. The first time I got Deep Red it was from Netflix, I couldn't watch it because the dubbing kept switching between English and Italian. I think the second time I rented from a local store and I think the dubbing problem was still there but I watched it anyway.

That's because Deep Red was presented on that Anchor Bay DVD, for the first time, uncut, and the newly included footage was never dubbed into English. It's not a problem, it's just the only way the film exists now in English and uncut. I don't know if they ever got the original cast to dub the additional lines or not.

[monolith94]

Man, the ending to Opera came thiiiiis close to pissing me off more than any other film ending.

[megladon8]

I was watching Do You Like Hitchcock? last night. Terrible writing and acting (like just about everything else Argento has done), but it's probably the most like his older films - in terms of visuals and style - of any of his later films.

I'm convinced the guy was meant to make movies in the '70s and '80s.

His dramatic camerawork and use of colour work much better on that 25-30 year old film stock. When he works with digital, it comes across as very amateurish.

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

Man, the ending to Opera came thiiiiis close to pissing me off more than any other film ending.

what? The ending is so amazing. It could almost be the intro to a Bjork music video.

[megladon8]

So yeah, Do You Like Hitchcock? has the production value of a bad TV movie, and I maintain that modern cameras and filming techniques just do not work for Argento.

Not very good at all, but when I think of how terrible Mother of Tears was, this is like seeing The Empire Strikes Back in IMAX 3-D.

[B-side]

Suspiria- 8-
Bird With The Crystal Plumage- 7

So far, I like him, but don't love him. The awful acting in his films is a bit of a distraction from the overall whole. Suspiria was gorgeous to look at and the set design was terrific, but the rest was just... bleh.

[D_Davis]

Suspiria- 8-
Bird With The Crystal Plumage- 7

So far, I like him, but don't love him. The awful acting in his films is a bit of a distraction from the overall whole. Suspiria was gorgeous to look at and the set design was terrific, but the rest was just... bleh.

His films would make great footage for a series of music videos.

[Grouchy]

Suspiria- 8-
Bird With The Crystal Plumage- 7

So far, I like him, but don't love him. The awful acting in his films is a bit of a distraction from the overall whole. Suspiria was gorgeous to look at and the set design was terrific, but the rest was just... bleh.
The thing here is, Argento doesn't care about "the rest".

[MacGuffin]

The thing here is, Argento doesn't care about "the rest".

Neither should we.

[origami_mustache]

After Watching Suspiria, Tenebre, and Deep Red, I'm not so sure if I'll be watching much more Argento.

[soitgoes...]

Black Sunday (Marion Bava, 1960) - 9Mario's sister was always considered the under-rated Bava. :lol:

[Grouchy]

Neither should we.
If we're intelligent and open-minded, yeah, we should.

[MacGuffin]

If we're intelligent and open-minded, yeah, we should.

So his movies have bad acting? Who cares? You watch Argento movies for acting? No. He is a master at creating a purely visual atmosphere and that is the reason I watch his movies.

[MacGuffin]

By the way, Grouchy, it seems to me you are also being a bit overly critical. If you can't enjoy movies on their fundamental levels, why bother watching them? It is all fine and great if you go looking for subtext and what have you, but I don't see why you would do that if you can't appreciate what is at the surface of the movie in the first place, and furthermore, why bother criticizing a movie for not having good acting when it has some much more to offer and to entertain us with?

[Grouchy]

By the way, Grouchy, it seems to me you are also being a bit overly critical. If you can't enjoy movies on their fundamental levels, why bother watching them? It is all fine and great if you go looking for subtext and what have you, but I don't see why you would do that if you can't appreciate what is at the surface of the movie in the first place, and furthermore, why bother criticizing a movie for not having good acting when it has some much more to offer and to entertain us with?
Actually, man. I'm in total agreement with you.

I thought your comment was a negative one towards Argento.

I guess I should think twice before posting.

[Sven]

By the way, Grouchy, it seems to me you are also being a bit overly critical. If you can't enjoy movies on their fundamental levels, why bother watching them? It is all fine and great if you go looking for subtext and what have you, but I don't see why you would do that if you can't appreciate what is at the surface of the movie in the first place, and furthermore, why bother criticizing a movie for not having good acting when it has some much more to offer and to entertain us with?

:obligatory observation of your own tendency toward being excessively dismissive:

[Grouchy]

It was my mistake. I didn't even realize the guy was the one started the thread, so no way could he be bashing Argento.

[MacGuffin]

:obligatory observation of your own tendency toward being excessively dismissive:

I've decided recently to stop being less dismissive, as you say. Really. It isn't fun.

[origami_mustache]

Mario's sister was always considered the under-rated Bava. :lol:

hahaha nice

[megladon8]

Is it just me or does Tenebre make no sense at all?

[Sven]

Is it just me or does Tenebre make no sense at all?

None of his movies do. They're all psychologically reductive with plot holes the size of Samarkand.

Excellent av, by the way.

[megladon8]

None of his movies do. They're all psychologically reductive with plot holes the size of Samarkand.

Excellent av, by the way.


Thanks!

Yeah, pretty much everything I've seen by him is non-sensical and more an exercise in style, but this one seems particularly stupid in its plotting.

I saw what he was trying to do, but man, did he ever screw it up.

Still a very good movie, hell, one of his best, but the little "murder mystery" he created is pretty terrible.

[Sven]

Yeah, pretty much everything I've seen by him is non-sensical and more an exercise in style, but this one seems particularly stupid in its plotting.

I saw what he was trying to do, but man, did he ever screw it up.

Still a very good movie, hell, one of his best, but the little "murder mystery" he created is pretty terrible.

Yeah, I see it in just about ever movie he's done. I do not remember it being any more outrageous in Tenebre, but perhaps I should watch it again. I love the dude and most of his movies, but he just does not give a fig about narrative fidelity.

[megladon8]

Yeah, I see it in just about ever movie he's done. I do not remember it being any more outrageous in Tenebre, but perhaps I should watch it again. I love the dude and most of his movies, but he just does not give a fig about narrative fidelity.


It's mainly the twist at the end.

Peter Neal being the murderer makes no sense at all, since we are given so much throughout the course of the film that shows solidly he is NOT the murderer.

It seems that quoting from "The Hound of the Baskervilles" ("When you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left - however improbable - must be the truth.") coupled with the ending was an attempt at being profound, but it just doesn't work.

But hey, a stylish shot over and around a house coupled with a woman who just can't keep her boobs locked up even in public...that renders any plotholes insignificant!

[Sven]

that renders any plotholes insignificant!

Agreed!

[Qrazy]

The utter lack of communication between Clipper Ship, Sven, and Grouchy above is hilarious to me.

One highlight:

I've decided recently to stop being less dismissive, as you say. Really. It isn't fun.

[Sven]

The utter lack of communication between Clipper Ship, Sven, and Grouchy above is hilarious to me.

Yeah, I realized that it was going to be way too much work to get us all on the same page, so I left it.

[Qrazy]

Yeah, I realized that it was going to be way too much work to get us all on the same page, so I left it.

For the best.

[Wryan]

Let's not forget his outside work on:

Once Upon a Time in the West
Escape From New York
Dawn of the Dead

[Rowland]

Peter Neal being the murderer makes no sense at all, since we are given so much throughout the course of the film that shows solidly he is NOT the murderer. The critic is the killer for the first half of the movie. Peter Neal starts killing when he axes the critic. It all makes sense, you must have gotten lost.

[megladon8]

I don't think that was made very clear, Rowland. If that is the case, then it makes more sense, but this is the second time I've seen the movie and neither time do I remember this being the conclusion reached.

Admittedly I was pretty tired watching last night, so I might have missed something.

[Sven]

I don't think that was made very clear, Rowland. If that is the case, then it makes more sense, but this is the second time I've seen the movie and neither time do I remember this being the conclusion reached.

Admittedly I was pretty tired watching last night, so I might have missed something.

Yes, Rowls is right. It still doesn't make any sense.

The hole that bothers me most is in The Card Player...

When the boy gets the noose tied around his head and then dragged by the boat, he cuts himself free. Then another boat comes up and spears him. That means there must've been two killers, but the film never accounts for a second killer. Argh!

[Grouchy]

Escape From New York
Huh? What did he have to do with that one?

[Wryan]

Huh? What did he have to do with that one?

That's odd. I just watched Escape twice in the last two days, once with commentary, and I could have sworn that I caught his name somewhere in the credits. Before I posted that, I looked thru IMDB and, again, could have sworn that I found his name connected to EFNY somewhere. Hence, I posted. Now I don't see what I thought I saw.

That's creepin me the fuck out right there. Anyway, maybe Carpenter dropped his name over the commentary somewhere and I power-of-suggestioned it into being. Not sure.

So anyway, Frank Doubleday is awesome in EFNY. And I can't believe they got away with the eye patch.

[Grouchy]

That's odd. I just watched Escape twice in the last two days, once with commentary, and I could have sworn that I caught his name somewhere in the credits. Before I posted that, I looked thru IMDB and, again, could have sworn that I found his name connected to EFNY somewhere. Hence, I posted. Now I don't see what I thought I saw.

That's creepin me the fuck out right there. Anyway, maybe Carpenter dropped his name over the commentary somewhere and I power-of-suggestioned it into being. Not sure.

So anyway, Frank Doubleday is awesome in EFNY. And I can't believe they got away with the eye patch.
Weird shit happens, I guess.

Doubleday is the punk-looking henchman, right? Yeah, he's awesome. The entire cast of Escape is a joy to have together in the same film. Lee Van Cleef, Harry Dean Stanton, Donald Pleasance, Adrienne Barbeau, Ernest Borgnine, fuckin' Isaac Hayes...

[Wryan]

Weird shit happens, I guess.

Doubleday is the punk-looking henchman, right? Yeah, he's awesome. The entire cast of Escape is a joy to have together in the same film. Lee Van Cleef, Harry Dean Stanton, Donald Pleasance, Adrienne Barbeau, Ernest Borgnine, fuckin' Isaac Hayes...

Yeah, the guy who would not be out of place if he time traveled to modern times and appeared in the new Dragonball Z movie. He's hilarious in the movie, consistently stealing scenes. But great cast as a whole, indeed.

[origami_mustache]

The critic is the killer for the first half of the movie. Peter Neal starts killing when he axes the critic. It all makes sense, you must have gotten lost.

yeah, but it's still stupid as hell.

[Epistemophobia]

But hey, a stylish shot over and around a house coupled with a woman who just can't keep her boobs locked up even in public...that renders any plotholes insignificant!
It is that level of genius that keeps me coming back to Argento. :P