The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012)

[Lasse]

Wow, that's a great poster. :eek:

[megladon8]

So the search is officially on for 2 actresses (http://www.cinematical.com/page/2/) - one to play a love interest for Wayne, and the other to be "a villainess".

A lot of people are jumping right to "it's Catwoman", but I'm honestly leaning more towards it being Talia.

Anyways, WB has narrowed the search down to 6 actress for the roles...

Natalie Portman
Keira Knightley
Blake Lively
Anne Hathaway
Rachel Weisz
Naomi Watts

I think the last two on that list should get the roles. All the others would seemway too young (at least for the love-interest role).

[Morris Schæffer]

So this Talia thing is rife with possibilities? Potential? Or will it degenerate into "you killed my father and now I will kill you!" shenanigans?

[number8]

More like, "You killed my father. Now get me pregnant."

[megladon8]

I'm not ruling out the possibility of R'as returning, either.

[Morris Schæffer]

I'm not ruling out the possibility of R'as returning, either.

Then it's Neeson back as the villain? Or Watanabe? I'd rather not have these back to be frank.

[megladon8]

Then it's Neeson back as the villain? Or Watanabe? I'd rather not have these back to be frank.


It would be Neeson.

I'm just throwing it out there, since R'as is "immortal" in the comics/cartoons.

And since Nolan has hinted that this third installment will not necessarily stay 100% with the "everything must be realistic" trait that he had in the last two films.

[Dukefrukem]

Neeson didn't die?

Also I want Natalie Portman.

[megladon8]

Neeson didn't die?

Yes he did, but like I said, in the comics and cartoons, the character pretty much can't die.



Also I want Natalie Portman.

I don't. She's a pretty bad actress, and I think she's much too young looking and sounding to convincingly play a mature woman.

It'd be like going back to Katie Holmes.

[number8]

And since Nolan has hinted that this third installment will not necessarily stay 100% with the "everything must be realistic" trait that he had in the last two films.

Where did he say this?

[megladon8]

Where did he say this?


I'll try to find the article again.

In fact, it's probably back in this thread somewhere.

It was a few months ago when he was talking about how he and Jonathan were steady at work on the script, and an interviewer asked him if the villain(s) in the third installment were going to remain grounded in reality the way they have been so far, and he said something about how that was "not necessarily the case with this entry."

[megladon8]

In fact, 8 it was you who posted it! (http://match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=247418&postcount=243)

[Ezee E]

Now where did THAT source come from?

[megladon8]

Now where did THAT source come from?


Here. (http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2010/03/10/christopher-nolan-takes-flight-with-superman-we-have-a-fantastic-story-1/)

[Morris Schæffer]

I don't. She's a pretty bad actress, and I think she's much too young looking and sounding to convincingly play a mature woman.

It'd be like going back to Katie Holmes.

I'd have to agree although I don't necessarily think she's a bad actress.

[Dukefrukem]

Fine then Ellen Page. :)

[Dukefrukem]

Hardy as Hugo Strange??

[megladon8]

That could be cool.

But I have to admit I was getting really excited with the rumor of Man-Bat.

I would love to see how they do that.

[Morris Schæffer]

I just read that Nolan is thinking of re-using Joker by way of CGI and actually shot scenes as an homage to the departed Ledger. Take this with a grain of salt, but Ledger's family has been contacted to give their approval. Anyone else heard of this?

[Dukefrukem]

No, but I like the idea of maybe doing this in short short short scenes inside AA or something to that effect. (I think I actually mentioned this a few pages back (here it is (http://match-cut.org/showpost.php?p=290648&postcount=395))

[number8]

I just read that Nolan is thinking of re-using Joker by way of CGI and actually shot scenes as an homage to the departed Ledger. Take this with a grain of salt, but Ledger's family has been contacted to give their approval. Anyone else heard of this?

Don't take it with a grain of salt. Take it with a bucket of bullshit. Nolan's one word response when he was asked this was "No."

[Morris Schæffer]

Don't take it with a grain of salt. Take it with a bucket of bullshit. Nolan's one word response when he was asked this was "No."

Good to know. I got that from a Belgian newspaper. Idiots! Reporting this as if it's some kind of goddamn scoop. :)

[Skitch]

Don't take it with a grain of salt. Take it with a bucket of bullshit. Nolan's one word response when he was asked this was "No."
I thought I had read the same response from him. Good. The only way I wouldn't be opposed to using him in some form other than recasting, would be a walkby in AA that would last a second. Other than that I think attempting to use him again would just feel like they're trying to recapture TDK, and I want a new movie.

[Dukefrukem]

Just because we all like beating a dead horse (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1653497/20101203/story.jhtml).

[number8]

Wait, Nolan was at Comic-Con?

[number8]

Nicely done photoshopping.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/Hefmeister/Misc%20Scans/darkknightrises___hugo_strange _by_boocherhix-d34e3c4.jpg

[Ezee E]

Nice.

I've heard that it'll probably be soem Hugo Strange story done from the early 90's.

I really know nothing about him.

[number8]

I wouldn't really make much of that Prey rumor. The Nolans haven't adapted any particular stories so far and I don't see why they'd start.

[Irish]

Anything is a step up from the rumored Riddler .. but I think it's a mistake to consciously avoid other "Burton" villains.

Hugo Strange seems really obscure to me. I read that comic regularly for awhile and the dude never turned up.

On the other hand, I thought whats-his-name from the first film was too obscure for the movies and that seems to have worked out pretty well.

[number8]

Strange and Ra's are interesting choices because they are very important villains in Batman's lore and Batman fans would know who they are, but they didn't enter pop culture because they weren't in the Adam West show or the Burton films.

I mean, Hugo Strange predates the Joker. There's no reason why he's not worthy of having a film about him.

[megladon8]

It'd be kind of weird to have Hugo Strange be a young handsome guy, but OK, I trust the Nolans.

[Ezee E]

It'd be kind of weird to have Hugo Strange be a young handsome guy, but OK, I trust the Nolans.
Well, I mean, Davy Jones in Pirates 3 wasn't actually a walking octopusman if I remember right.

Right?

[megladon8]

Well, I mean, Davy Jones in Pirates 3 wasn't actually a walking octopusman if I remember right.

Right?


Huh?

[Ezee E]

Huh?
The magic of movies made someone into a walking octopus man.

Why couldn't it make a young handsome Tom Hardy into Hugo Strange?

[megladon8]

The magic of movies made someone into a walking octopus man.

Why couldn't it make a young handsome Tom Hardy into Hugo Strange?


Because octopus man doesn't exist.

Older men do exist.

This is something that frequently bothers me in movie casting, particular when it comes to casting characters with specific accents and whatnot.

If the actor can play and sound the part, then fine. But in the case of, well, for a recent example let me use Kick Ass, why was Aaron Johnson cast in the lead role?

He has so, so much trouble keeping his English accent down and it's both noticeable and distracting in many scenes.

Were there really no young American actors to play that role? Really? You absolutely NEEDED to cast a Brit there?


Now, I like Tom Hardy. I love Nolan and his Batman films (obviously). But if the rumors are true and Hardy is being case as Hugo Strange (and, making the assumption that he is, similar to the comics, significantly older than Batman)...it's just weird to me.

Did we suddenly run out of 45+ men?

[EvilShoe]

Is Hugo Strange's age that relevant to the character, though?

(I'm not that familiar with him, which is why I ask.)

[megladon8]

Is Hugo Strange's age that relevant to the character, though?

(I'm not that familiar with him, which is why I ask.)


Not really, and to be honest, I have no doubt Hardy and Nolan will make it awesome (if, indeed, he is to play Hugo Strange...no one knows yet).


It just started me on my little tangent of casting issues that bother me sometimes. I'm more bothered by the accent thing.

Gerard Butler should never be given an American character to play, ever again.

[Watashi]

Colin Farrell's American accent in Minority Report is still the best. It's uncanny.

[Scar]

Should Max von Sydow not have been cast in the Exorcist?

[megladon8]

Should Max von Sydow not have been cast in the Exorcist?


What would the argument be for him not being cast? I don't think he was supposed to be American, or young?

[Scar]

What would the argument be for him not being cast? I don't think he was supposed to be American, or young?

He's playing a rather old priest. He wasn't old. He was only 43 and required four hours of make up every day to be made to look old.

[Skitch]

I read a rumor that Hardy was actually cast as Det. Harvey Bullock, not Strange. At this point though, its hardly worth believing anything not from Nolans mouth :)

[Grouchy]

I read a rumor that Hardy was actually cast as Det. Harvey Bullock, not Strange. At this point though, its hardly worth believing anything not from Nolans mouth :)
There was already sort of a Bullock-like cop in The Dark Knight, though.

[megladon8]

I read a rumor that Hardy was actually cast as Det. Harvey Bullock, not Strange. At this point though, its hardly worth believing anything not from Nolans mouth :)


Pretty much.

We know Hardy's in it, but beyond that, no one has any clue what or who he's playing.


I still think it'd be super cool if that rumor about Man-Bat was true. I'd freaking love to see how the Nolan's pulled that off.

[Skitch]

That would be sweet. While it doesn't have a home in Nolans "real-world" Bat-chise, I'd love to see what a live action Clayface looked liked.

[megladon8]

Some douche-hat claims his "buddy at WB sent him the script". (http://www.dailyblam.com/news/2010/12/15/has-the-dark-knight-rises-script-leaked-to-the-public)

Obviously a load of bollocks, but this is what he has to say...


Main villain of the film is Dr. Hugo Strange, and I believe Tom Hardy is playing Black Mask. This movie will indeed blow everyone to shreds! It's more violent and darker then TDK. The female lead is Talia al Ghul and Sarah Essen, Bullock is in the film. Dr. Hugo Strange is the main villain, Black Mask replaces Salvatore Ramoni recruits Killer Croc as the muscle to take down the Bat. Killer Croc is known to be a psychopathic killer with diseased reptile function skinned, who's an expert in hand to hand combat and extremely agile.


Also claims that it will be revealed that Scarecrow was actually working for Hugo Strange in the first film.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Sounds like some jerk just threw together every single rumor heard up to now, including a new character named Salvatore "Ramoni."

[megladon8]

Sounds like some jerk just threw together every single rumor heard up to now, including a new character named Salvatore "Ramoni."


:lol:


If they brought in this many new villains and plot-twists (not to mention twists on the plots in the last two movies) there's no way it could be anything other than a convoluted mess.

So Hugo Strange hires Black Mask to hire Killer Croc to kill Batman because Hugo Strange hired Scarecrow to do it in the first movie and he failed?

And somewhere in there we also have Talia Ghul avenging the death of her father?

Jesus christ.

[number8]

Weird, I got a different script, hand delivered to me by Jonathan Nolan's girlfriend inside a sandwich. The main villain is Mad Hatter and he recruits the Green Goblin to take down Batman. Also, the twist is that the Joker in The Dark Knight was actually Spawn the whole time, and now the real Joker is mad and wants to claim his spotlight back.

[number8]

Does anyone else remember the amount of bullshit reports we got leading up to The Dark Knight? I am NOT looking forward to the encore that will be happening for the next two years.

[Skitch]

Does anyone else remember the amount of bullshit reports we got leading up to The Dark Knight? I am NOT looking forward to the encore that will be happening for the next two years.

:)

I do! Like I said, till I hear it from the man...

*registers domain www.ithrewarockathim.com*

[Ezee E]

I will enjoy the fake posters though.

[Skitch]

Who could play Croc? The Rock kinda looked like him at the end of Doom. :lol: Paint his skin darker and diseased looking and keep him to only grunts...who knows?

[Morris Schæffer]

True or False?

http://movies.ign.com/articles/114/1143277p1.html

[number8]

Always assume false.

[Skitch]

I could get behind most of that, but merging the two characters seems really dumb.

[Morris Schæffer]

Always assume false.

"Assumption is the mother of all fuckups"

Rep if you can name the movie. :P

[Skitch]

"Assumption is the mother of all fuckups"

Rep if you can name the movie. :P

Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.

"Motha, brotha, any other sucka."

[Dukefrukem]

I could get behind most of that, but merging the two characters seems really dumb.

It's Nolan we're talking about here... One way or another... it's either brilliant and we just don't know it yet or false.

[Morris Schæffer]

Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.

"Motha, brotha, any other sucka."

EEEH!! Would you like to go for Double Jeopardy where the scores can really change? :D

[Skitch]

EEEH!! Would you like to go for Double Jeopardy where the scores can really change? :D

Ahhhh!!! But they DO say that in there! I should get half-credit lol

[megladon8]

Weird.

The script I read about stated that Christian Bale would be playing a dual role of Batman and The Penguin. And keeping true to his intense method-acting ways, Bale is currently undergoing a controversial operation, removing large chunks of bone from his legs and spine to make him significantly shorter for the role of Penguin.

Also, the Nolan's are going to dig up Heath Ledger's bones and do a full 360-degree digital capture of them, then use computer to build on muscle, tendons and flesh on top of the bone and recreate Ledger's Joker digitally.

[Scar]

"Assumption is the mother of all fuckups"

Rep if you can name the movie. :P

Under Siege 2.

[Scar]

EEEH!! Would you like to go for Double Jeopardy where the scores can really change? :D

DieHard

[Ivan Drago]

Weird.

The script I read about stated that Christian Bale would be playing a dual role of Batman and The Penguin. And keeping true to his intense method-acting ways, Bale is currently undergoing a controversial operation, removing large chunks of bone from his legs and spine to make him significantly shorter for the role of Penguin.

Also, the Nolan's are going to dig up Heath Ledger's bones and do a full 360-degree digital capture of them, then use computer to build on muscle, tendons and flesh on top of the bone and recreate Ledger's Joker digitally.

If only I could rep you again.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I gotta wonder if Nolan's dealing with multiple unsolicited calls from Sean Young.

[megladon8]

Uh oh!

This just confirmed by a guy whose aunt knows a guy whose roommate once boarded with a former friend of Christopher Nolan's uncle:

Tom Hardy will, in fact, be playing a character that combines both Killer Croc AND Man-Bat into one villain. He will be called "Killer Man-Croc", and will be 25 feet tall and done entirely with claymation.

Chrstopher Nolan will also be teaming up with James Cameron to develop the world's first 4D camera technology, which will incorporate time manipulation into the film. People who go see this 2 1/2 hour film will actually age more than 35 years!!

[Grouchy]

Huh, you already made the same joke not even two hours ago.

[Ezee E]

Huh, you already made the same joke not even two hours ago.
Meg likes his rep.

[megladon8]

Huh, you already made the same joke not even two hours ago.


Just echoing how many rumors come and go about this movie. I don't think it's hyperbolic at all to say that at least once every week someone claims to have read the script, or talked to Nolan and Goyer, or whatever their particular case may be.

[Watashi]

It's official.

Anne Hathaway is Catwoman. Tom Hardy is Bane. (http://www.slashfilm.com/anne-hathaway-catwoman-tom-hardy-bane-dark-knight-rises/)

[Dukefrukem]

Wow. Not sure I like this Catwoman route... but I trust Nolan.

[number8]

Weird, I can't find this press release anywhere. Every blog that mentions this are all sourcing The LA Times, whose original article didn't post the full press release, just Nolan's comment on working with Hathaway and Hardy. I'd be interested to see WB's actual wording of the announcement.

Maybe they're sending out the official release later today and gave LA Times the scoop first. I'll post it if it shows up in my inbox.

EDIT: Nevermind, I guess that's actually all that's in the release. Hmmm.


BURBANK, CA, January 19, 2011 – Warner Bros. Pictures announced today that Anne Hathaway has been cast as Selina Kyle in Christopher Nolan’s “The Dark Knight Rises.” She will be starring alongside Christian Bale, who returns in the title role of Bruce Wayne/Batman.

Christopher Nolan stated, “I am thrilled to have the opportunity to work with Anne Hathaway, who will be a fantastic addition to our ensemble as we complete our story.”

In addition, Tom Hardy has been set to play Bane. Nolan said, “I am delighted to be working with Tom again and excited to watch him bring to life our new interpretation of one of Batman’s most formidable enemies.”

Nolan will direct the film from a screenplay he wrote with Jonathan Nolan, from a story by Christopher Nolan and David S. Goyer. Nolan will also produce the film with his longtime producing partner, Emma Thomas, and Charles Roven.

“The Dark Knight Rises” is slated for release on July 20, 2012. The film will be distributed worldwide by Warner Bros. Pictures, a Warner Bros. Entertainment Company.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Interesting.

[number8]

I'm going to guess that "Catwoman" is not in the film.

[Acapelli]

ew, bane

[Acapelli]

that's just my knee-jerk reaction. i'm sure nolan has something cool up his sleeve

[number8]

If it's the current Gail Simone version of Bane, I'm all for it. If it's the "Break the Bat" Bane, I'm all forrrzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz.

[transmogrifier]

So Catwoman's going to get her kit off? The series is looking up.

[Henry Gale]

I feel a bit whatever but ultimately fine with Hathaway's casting, similar to how I felt when they announced Holmes and Gyllenhaal for the first two. But I don't think I've ever really disliked her in anything I've seen of hers (though I have avoided the Valentine's Days and Bride Wars along the way), so I don't have any bad feeling about it either.

The thing about this news is, it seems like she's only the first female lead to be cast. According to a shortlist that was circulating for months (which had Hathaway on it), there were apparently set to be two major roles for the women listed: one a villain, and one a love interest (one of those possibly Talia Al Ghul, either one depending on which angle they go for).

The big list, which didn't specify who was up for what role, included:

Keira Knightley
Jessica Biel
Kate Mara
Charlotte Riley (Tom Hardy's real life fiancee)
Gemma Arterton

That was the most recent list that Hathaway was on, so I would bet that that was the Catwoman shortlist. The first incarnation of the list from a few months back also included people like Rachel Weisz, Naomi Watts, Eva Green, Blake Lively, and Natalie Portman, which was probably them just doing a broad call for some bigger actresses to see who may be interested and who they liked in whatever role.

Either way, compared to most movies, the expectations for this are astronomical for such a largely spread demographic of fans. In a few months, all the casting will likely be locked and we'll slowly start to see set pictures and then official ones here and there. But in the end, I find myself oddly not caring too much about that, and just hoping and trusting that the end result Nolan and co. are working towards properly comes together as something I love as much as the first two.

[Lasse]

Depending on how they do Bane, it can be good.

Anne Hathaway as Selena Kyle works for me. I've liked her in everything I've seen her in. Unfortunately, one of those things I've seen her in isn't my bed. :P

[Ivan Drago]

Anne Hathaway as Catwoman = YAY!

Tom Hardy as Bane = ????

Then again, all I know about the Bane character is that he broke Batman's back...and...Batman and Robin.

[Skitch]

:|

[megladon8]

Well, that totally came out of left field.

[TGM]

I'm not entirely thrilled about Catwoman, but I'm sure Nolan will be able to pull it off.

Really looking forward to Bane, however.

[megladon8]

Hmm...here's a theory I have...

Bruce Wayne develops a relationship with Selina Kyle. She finds out that he is Batman, either from him directly telling her, or somehow in an altercation with Bane he is unmasked.

Bane breaks Batman's back. His career is over. City is still in trouble.

Selina Kyle becomes Catwoman to carry on Batman's work.

The End.

[Ezee E]

Hmm...here's a theory I have...

Bruce Wayne develops a relationship with Selina Kyle. She finds out that he is Batman, either from him directly telling her, or somehow in an altercation with Bane he is unmasked.

Bane breaks Batman's back. His career is over. City is still in trouble.

Selina Kyle becomes Catwoman to carry on Batman's work.

The End.
Then it'd be called Catwoman Rises. Duh.

[megladon8]

Then it'd be called Catwoman Rises. Duh.


Batman's gonna get hurt/die/quit at the end of this movie.

I can't see it ending with "I'm officially the best I'll ever be, and Gotham is safe forever!"

[Dukefrukem]

Batman's gonna get hurt/die/quit at the end of this movie.

I can't see it ending with "I'm officially the best I'll ever be, and Gotham is safe forever!"

I can. The studio and Nolan will push for a happy ending.

[megladon8]

I can. The studio and Nolan will push for a happy ending.


Nolan would push for a happy ending? What makes you think that?

Has he ever had a movie with a happy ending? I guess Inception was kinda...not sad?

[number8]

If he wants to close the trilogy, ending it with Batman injured/retiring would be the worst possible idea ever, because that would only get people to expect a sequel where he comes back. That's an ending fail.

Killing him is the better option, but the likelihood of that happening is, er, 0.1%. That .1% is in the event that a virus was released that killed everyone working at Warner Bros and the company is handed over to Grant Morrison.

[megladon8]

Maybe they're replacing Robin with Catwoman.

The ending will show Gotham as being the same-old crime ridden shit hole that it's always been and always will be, and Batman will be all like "at least I'm not in this alone", and then we see Catwoman's shiny leather ass step into the frame.

Then Batman open-palm slaps it.

Fade to black.

THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

[Ezee E]

If he wants to close the trilogy, ending it with Batman injured/retiring would be the worst possible idea ever, because that would only get people to expect a sequel where he comes back. That's an ending fail.

Killing him is the better option, but the likelihood of that happening is, er, 0.1%. That .1% is in the event that a virus was released that killed everyone working at Warner Bros and the company is handed over to Grant Morrison.
Wonder if he gets his back broken early on though?

[megladon8]

The Dark Knight Rises is actually a double entendre for Batman getting a hard on the first time he sees Selina Kyle in the Catwoman suit.

[Dukefrukem]

Maybe they're replacing Robin with Catwoman.

The ending will show Gotham as being the same-old crime ridden shit hole that it's always been and always will be, and Batman will be all like "at least I'm not in this alone", and then we see Catwoman's shiny leather ass step into the frame.

Then Batman open-palm slaps it.

Fade to black.

THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

I see what you did there.

[Dukefrukem]

The Dark Knight Rises is actually a double entendre for Batman getting a hard on the first time he sees Selina Kyle in the Catwoman suit.

Oh that wasn't implied in the above quote?

[megladon8]

Yeah, that's the joke I was trying to make.

I didn't think it was very clear, though.

Maybe I should draw a diagram.

[number8]

It's funny because it is implied that the Dark Knight's penis is rising as a result of Catwoman's sexuality, indicating that he is aroused.

[megladon8]

It's funny because it is implied that the Dark Knight's penis is rising as a result of Catwoman's sexuality, indicating that he is aroused.


No, that's not the joke.

Why do you turn everything into sex?

You really have a one-shaft mind.

[Ezee E]

http://communities.sportsnet.ca/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/2-599118-4266/badum.jpg

[Sycophant]

Batman and Catwoman rent a bunch of movies and share a bottle of wine, both of them acting like it's just a friendly thing, so not going to go anywhere, but both secretly hoping and/or wondering whether it will.

[megladon8]

You know, that was just too EZEE a joke for you to make.

Get it?

Get it?

[Dukefrukem]

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7932/megqw.jpg

[eternity]

I'm curious as to how any director can find a way to not fuck this up.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Nolan's made two good Batman films. That outweighs whatever the new information of the day is.

[Robby P]

This news inspired me to watch Bronson, which is a decision I am immediately regretting.

[Watashi]

I would have sex with Anne Hathaway.

[EyesWideOpen]

I couldn't have asked for better casting with both choices.

[Grouchy]

I like the casting on instinct alone. I don't want to waste time expounding an opinion on something as vague as this.

I will say this, though. Nolan has an eye for a lot of things, but not sexy female roles.

[megladon8]

I'm really interested in the Nolans' take on Bane.

[Skitch]

I'm still just kinda stunned. For the months of speculation, I figured Bane would be pretty darn near the bottom. So many other villians I'd rather see. Mad Hatter!!

I guess I wouldn't be as disappointed if Nolan wasn't so clear that this is closing out his trilogy of bat films.

Still, he has yet to make a bad film in my book, so...there we go.

[Morris Schæffer]

This news inspired me to watch Bronson, which is a decision I am immediately regretting.

It's horrid?

[Sycophant]

I don't know much about Batman, but I do know that "Mad Hatter" is a goofy name and Bane does not sound immediately goofy.

[Sxottlan]

I'm feeling a tad ambiguous about this news in that I like the actors, but I've never been all that crazy about Catwoman. Bane I really don't know much about and after that photoshop job farther up stream with Hardy as Hugo Strange, it's a bit of a letdown.

The villains in the last film were such a double barreled shotgun blast to the head that of course it'll be a tough act to follow, although I would feel better if the Riddler were in it.

But I can see this all ending with Batman broken and simply throwing in the towel. I think that'd be a pretty dark way to end it.


If he wants to close the trilogy, ending it with Batman injured/retiring would be the worst possible idea ever, because that would only get people to expect a sequel where he comes back. That's an ending fail.

I'm not sure why people would exactly expect that. These movies seem to have been predicated on anything goes when it comes to the canon and then just end it. There's no reason Warner Brothers wouldn't simply resurrect the franchise again in another ten years with another slant to it, especially now that we've seen them do it once before.

[Morris Schæffer]

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/item/655/6554912/darkknight3_011911_cover.jpg

Her pillows look massive in that picture. In any case, it is probably not real.

[Dukefrukem]

totally shopped, but still cool.

We'll see a floodgate of fan made art soon.

[Ezee E]

I think the Batman & Robin arc of Bane is probably tainting everyone's idea of him. He's actually suppose to be very intelligent. I'm still kind of predicting a Knightfall-ish story though.

[number8]

Of course that's shopped. I recognized that immediately from this Adam Hughes cover:

http://cdn4.mattters.com/photos/photos/2553177/Catwoman51.jpg

[Dead & Messed Up]

If the film features a Knightfall-based story, does that mean we might see returning vets like the Scarecrow and the Joker escaping Arkham (as part of a plan to weaken Batman)? On the one hand, eww. On the other hand, awesome.

[Ezee E]

If the film features a Knightfall-based story, does that mean we might see returning vets like the Scarecrow and the Joker escaping Arkham (as part of a plan to weaken Batman)? On the one hand, eww. On the other hand, awesome.
The bad thing is that's already been done in Batman Begins.

[BuffaloWilder]

I see no problem with having Batman either dying or retiring at the end of this coming film - the former because among other things it would be a proper way to close off this trilogy about a man paying the ultimate personal price to bring his city to societal salvation, and the latter because goddamn, that's like an invitation for The Dark Knight Returns, you guys.

[Raiders]

I think the Batman & Robin arc of Bane is probably tainting everyone's idea of him. He's actually suppose to be very intelligent.

He's among the best Batman villains. Love the casting of Hardy as it assuredly means we won't get the awful grunting version.

[Sxottlan]

Found this in another forum. Don't know if it's pre-Dark Knight.

Just in case anyone has doubts:

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfaf5hxLLC1qdk8fjo1_500 .jpg

[Ivan Drago]

and the latter because goddamn, that's like an invitation for The Dark Knight Returns, you guys.

Do not want.

[Acapelli]

batman dying retiring (quitting really) or dying would be awful

what, he's batman for a few years and just gives up? that would be the shittiest batman ever

[Spun Lepton]

I am actually quite fond of the idea of making Nolan's Batman movies an open-and-closed trilogy.

[Sycophant]

I wish we lived in a world where after the Nolans and/or Bale complete their trilogy and walk away from Batman, we could look forward to a B4tm4n that supposedly builds on the story and universe of the trilogy with a somewhat different cast and a radically different tone, preferably really goofy, instead of a reboot in 2015.

We should start a "Batman Reboot (2015)" thread soon so we can start speculating as to whether they'll attempt to make it even more "dark'n'mature" or what comic stories they're gonna adapt and fit into Batman's next cinematic origin story.

[Watashi]

I'm pretty sure the next Batman movie will be a Batman Beyond-ish type of film that features a much older Bruce Wayne.

[Acapelli]

I am actually quite fond of the idea of making Nolan's Batman movies an open-and-closed trilogy.
why does that mean batman has to die or retire. a batman that retires is just not batman. him dying i could probably deal with, but i probably wouldn't be happy. maybe someone else can pick up the cape and cowl, along the lines of:
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/6156/rooftops.jpg

the whole point of batman and the comics is his never-ending war on crime, key word being "never-ending". him giving up would be a betrayal of the character. and killing him off would effectively be nolan's way of taking his toys and going home

i'm sure there is a better third option that could close out this "trilogy"

[Skitch]

I'm pretty sure the next Batman movie will be a Batman Beyond-ish type of film that features a much older Bruce Wayne.

That would be interesting. Also a good oportunity for a one shot movie attempt at Dark Knight Returns...directed by David Fincher...starring Mickey Rourke...

[amberlita]

That would be interesting. Also a good oportunity for a one shot movie attempt at Dark Knight Returns...directed by David Fincher...starring Jon Hamm...

Fixed and agreed. :)

[Skitch]

Fixed and agreed. :)

Not really old enough, but I suppose he could be make-up upped. :)

[Sxottlan]

why does that mean batman has to die or retire. a batman that retires is just not batman.. the whole point of batman and the comics is his never-ending war on crime, key word being "never-ending". him giving up would be a betrayal of the character.

I don't know about that. Dent said it himself that Batman can't do this forever. It was the point of Bruce putting his faith in Harvey. Within the context of this apparently self-contained trilogy, I don't have a problem with him hanging it up.

[megladon8]

Alternately, I don't think Batman needs to die OR to hang up the cowl for the trilogy to be self-contained.

[Skitch]

Maybe hes forced to with a broken back.

[megladon8]

Something I've often caught myself wondering about is why every single live-action Batman since Burton's '89 film skirt around (ie completely ignore) the fact that Batman wears black make-up around his eyes.

Two scenes are particularly guilty of this:

In Batman Returns when he takes his mask off for Catwoman at the very end, and Batman Begins when he takes his mask off in the Batcave after rescuing Rachel.

In both scenes, you can clearly see when the mask is on that around his eyes is darkened with black make-up.

Camera cuts away.

Mask is off and his face is completely clean.


I mean...are they afraid people will think "Batman must be GAY if he wears make-up!" or something?


I am aware that this is a total nitpick, it's just a part of the costume that has always been ignored and I never really got why.

[TGM]

Something I've often caught myself wondering about is why every single live-action Batman since Burton's '89 film skirt around (ie completely ignore) the fact that Batman wears black make-up around his eyes.

Two scenes are particularly guilty of this:

In Batman Returns when he takes his mask off for Catwoman at the very end, and Batman Begins when he takes his mask off in the Batcave after rescuing Rachel.

In both scenes, you can clearly see when the mask is on that around his eyes is darkened with black make-up.

Camera cuts away.

Mask is off and his face is completely clean.


I mean...are they afraid people will think "Batman must be GAY if he wears make-up!" or something?


I am aware that this is a total nitpick, it's just a part of the costume that has always been ignored and I never really got why.

I noticed that too, and in fact, in Returns, just before he takes his mask off, there's a brief moment when he has the mask on without the makeup, which just looks ridiculous.

Thing is, as stupid as it sounds, the reason you suggested honestly probably is exactly why they ignore this little detail. :\

[number8]

Honestly, it's because the idea of Batman putting on make-up everytime he puts on the cowl is ridiculous in itself. The make-up is supposed to just be a costuming trick that I don't think would be noticed by most if not for Burton deliberately highlighting that fact in the first movie.

[megladon8]

Honestly, it's because the idea of Batman putting on make-up everytime he puts on the cowl is ridiculous in itself. The make-up is supposed to just be a costuming trick that I don't think would be noticed by most if not for Burton deliberately highlighting that fact in the first movie.


I really don't see what's ridiculous about it, though. At all. He's a guy wearing a bat costume to fight crime. How does a little black make-up around his eyes make it more ridiculous?

Something similar happens in The Dark Knight when he's about to jump off the tower to take Lau. Completely clean face. Puts on his mask, camera cuts away, cuts back and he's got black make-up around his eyes.

It's a part of the costume that would take less than 30 seconds to apply. It's not like he needs a perfect line to match up with the mask's eye holes.

[number8]

I really don't see what's ridiculous about it, though. At all. He's a guy wearing a bat costume to fight crime. How does a little black make-up around his eyes make it more ridiculous?

I wasn't talking about the look, I was talking about the act. Dude has to find a mirror before he jumps into action?

[megladon8]

I wasn't talking about the look, I was talking about the act. Dude has to find a mirror before he jumps into action?


No, that's why I said it's not like that make-up needs to be exact. Just slap some black make-up on to cover his eyes and he's good to go. Hell, to be safe he could cover his whole forehead and his cheeks.


Goddamn we are nerds.

[number8]

Have you ever wiped black make up off your face? What happens if he has to go back to Bruce Wayne? Spend 20 minutes in the bathroom with Bat-baby oil and Bat-cotton pads?

[megladon8]

Have you ever wiped black make up off your face? What happens if he has to go back to Bruce Wayne? Spend 20 minutes in the bathroom with Bat-baby oil and Bat-cotton pads?


YES, GODDAMNIT!!!

[number8]

YES, GODDAMNIT!!!

FUCK YOU, HE'S BATMAN. THIS IS BULLSHIT.

[Scar]

:lol:

[Spun Lepton]

This thread just took a turn for the awesome.

[Ezee E]

Couldn't we just assume that Batman is smart enough to have invented self-activated mackup applier AND removal inside his own mask?

I mean really guys.

[megladon8]

FUCK YOU, HE'S BATMAN. THIS IS BULLSHIT.


NO FUCK YOU! DOUBLE!

FROM NOW ON ANY BATMAN FAN-FIC FROM YOU THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE APPLICATION AND REMOVAL OF FACE MAKE-UP IS INSTANTLY NULL AND VOID.

[Skitch]

Makeup dispenser above the eye holes. Wet wipes below for automatical removal when mask removed.

Yay!

[Sxottlan]

Makeup dispenser above the eye holes. Wet wipes below for automatical removal when mask removed.

That's what I always assumed.

[Morris Schæffer]

Joseph-Gordon Levitt joins cast?

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=30044

[Dukefrukem]

Joseph-Gordon Levitt joins cast?

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=30044

Hugo Strage?? yes!!!!!!!

[Morris Schæffer]

Hugo Strage?? yes!!!!!!!

That would fuel the rumour that Hathaway won't really be Catwoman until later in the movie since three villains is far too much.

[DavidSeven]

Hardy as Bane and Levitt as Azrael would be kind of epic.

[megladon8]

That would fuel the rumour that Hathaway won't really be Catwoman until later in the movie since three villains is far too much.


Catwoman wouldn't necessarily be a villain.

[Ezee E]

Levitt as Nightwing I predict. That'll be their answer to Robin.

[megladon8]

Levitt as Nightwing I predict. That'll be their answer to Robin.


Which is fuckin awesome.

I'm really anxious to see what the colour scheme for this movie will be.

[Ezee E]

Which is fuckin awesome.

I'm really anxious to see what the colour scheme for this movie will be.
blackandyellowblackandyellowbl ackandyellowblackandyellow

Yeah, you know what it is.

[number8]

He should be Harold!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/48/Harold_Allnut.jpg

[megladon8]

I was actually thinking it could be red.

Begins was amber (kind of reminded me of Guillermo del Toro movies).

The Dark Knight was white and blue.

[Grouchy]

Wow, Harold is a character that would fit in quite well with Nolan's Batverse.

[Dukefrukem]

http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/New_Batman_Film_Scouting_Grand _Ledge_115344794.html


According to Eaton County and Grand Ledge officials who didn't want to be identified due to confidentiality agreements, production crews from "The Dark Knight Rises" scouted locations in Grand Ledge's Fitzgerald Park last week.

They looked at the Ledges as well as a water treatment plant located inside the park. Sources say the area is being considered as a hideout for Batman sidekick Robin.

[Skitch]

Hardy as Bane and Levitt as Azrael would be kind of epic.

*awesomest head explosion ever*

[Skitch]

As Nolan and Bale both expressed their extreme disinterest in Robin, I hope they don't. Also seems like a waste of JGL's talents, when there's so many characters in the universe he could own.

[megladon8]

It's bullshit.

[Dukefrukem]

Marion Cotillard To Play Talia Al Ghul?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/coolproduction/ckeditor_assets/pictures/648/original/marion1.jpg?1297634156

[Fezzik]

Marion Cotillard To Play Talia Al Ghul?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/coolproduction/ckeditor_assets/pictures/648/original/marion1.jpg?1297634156

Don't tease me.

[Morris Schæffer]

Rough outline of the plot may have leaked. Small spoilers

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/48711

[Dukefrukem]

Who would read that??


arghhh

[megladon8]

Ugh.

So during an interview regarding Battle: LA, Aaron Eckhart was asked if it was a 100% certainty that he was not returning to the role of Two-Face.

'Cause, you know, he hasn't been asked that enough times yet, I guess it isn't clear.


I read his response as purely being frustrated with the number of times he's asked this, but he said "I'm not" with a little smile on his face. The guy then said "So...wait...maybe you are?" and he said "I could not possibly say."

And now nerds are flying off the handle with "OMFG OMFG OMFG TWO FACE IS COMING BACK!!!"

[eternity]

Ugh.

So during an interview regarding Battle: LA, Aaron Eckhart was asked if it was a 100% certainty that he was not returning to the role of Two-Face.

'Cause, you know, he hasn't been asked that enough times yet, I guess it isn't clear.


I read his response as purely being frustrated with the number of times he's asked this, but he said "I'm not" with a little smile on his face. The guy then said "So...wait...maybe you are?" and he said "I could not possibly say."

And now nerds are flying off the handle with "OMFG OMFG OMFG TWO FACE IS COMING BACK!!!"

He's having fun.

[megladon8]

He's having fun.


Exactly.

But people are taking it seriously and it's kind of silly.

[Dukefrukem]

He's so gonna be in AA

[Skitch]

Ha! Eckhart is a cool mo-fo.

No one wanted Two-Face back more than me, a third movie could fully be focused on him after TDK. But this is not the path Nolan has taken. That's fine. Give it a rest, inter-nerds! He's not coming back! Hell, if the third movie isn't focused on Two-face, I don't want him back. Let him be. A bit part would not satisfy me.

[number8]

Liam Neeson did the same thing during the Unknown press rounds. If I ever star in a franchise entry and I got killed off, and people keep asking me if I'm returning, I'd just keep saying yes.

[Dukefrukem]

Liam Neeson dies in Unknown??? Thanks a lot.

[megladon8]

Duke, you don't help the problem by repeating it.

[Raiders]

Liam Neeson dies in Unknown??? Thanks a lot.

:lol:

He's talking about Neeson as Ra's al Ghul.

[megladon8]

Thanks a lot for the spoiler, Raiders.

I was going to watch Batman Begins tonight, but now I won't even bother.

[Raiders]

Thanks a lot for the spoiler, Raiders.

I was going to watch Batman Begins tonight, but now I won't even bother.

Well, I certainly hope you weren't going to follow it with The Dark Knight because, pssstEckhartdiespsssst.

[megladon8]

Well, I certainly hope you weren't going to follow it with The Dark Knight because, pssstEckhartdiespsssst.


I remember when you were a nice, honest admin.

You were the type of hero MatchCut deserves, but not the one it needs right now. A silent guardian. A watchful protector. A dark knight.

Phil used to be your face, and Raiders your mask. But now Phil is the mask. Your true face is the one that MatchCut posters now fear.

[Dukefrukem]

Two Face dies???

[Mysterious Dude]

pssstEckhartdiespsssst.
I don't know. I never got a good look at the body.

[number8]

I don't know. I never got a good look at the body.

He could just be in Alcoholics Anonymous.

[Ivan Drago]

Levitt confirmed, as well as another character: http://movies.ign.com/articles/115/1156585p1.html

[Barty]

Gordon-Levitt's 'Dark Knight' role revealed - Actor tipped to play Alberto Falcone a.k.a. The Holiday Killer (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118034129)

[Ivan Drago]

Gordon-Levitt's 'Dark Knight' role revealed - Actor tipped to play Alberto Falcone a.k.a. The Holiday Killer (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118034129)

From The Long Halloween, right?

Fucking YES.

[megladon8]

Very cool.

Hope they make him as much of an unnerving creep as he was in the book.

[MadMan]

Gordon-Levitt's 'Dark Knight' role revealed - Actor tipped to play Alberto Falcone a.k.a. The Holiday Killer (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118034129)I approve of this.

[Thirdmango]

Not so fast guys:

http://www.bigshinyrobot.com/reviews/archives/24525

[number8]

It will never cease to amaze me how much faith the internet puts into movie news reported by random blogs citing anonymous sources.

[Raiders]

It will never cease to amaze me how much faith the internet puts into movie news reported by random blogs citing anonymous sources.

Well, admittedly you would expect Variety and EW to be a little more reputable, or have better sources, than some nerd with a computer, even if this isn't always the case.

[Spun Lepton]

He'll be The Riddler. Just watch.

[megladon8]

Christopher Nolan will actually return to the franchise as a producer on the re-boot of the series after The Dark Knight Rises.

It's expected that this will lead into a Justice League movie (yeah, I'll believe it when I see it).

[Ezee E]

Christopher Nolan will actually return to the franchise as a producer on the re-boot of the series after The Dark Knight Rises.

It's expected that this will lead into a Justice League movie (yeah, I'll believe it when I see it).
Source?

[Raiders]

Source?

Google has tons of articles (likely all tied to the same source), but here:

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/news/a311761/batman-franchise-to-be-rebooted.html

Yes, they will reboot it... again. Because really, who doesn't want to see a new Batman franchise... again.

[Watashi]

I want a Batman Beyond movie.

[Dukefrukem]

I want the Justice League movie with Bale as Batman and Nolan behind the camera

[Spun Lepton]

If they do another reboot, can we just skip the origin story this time? Everybody knows it by now.

[Scar]

If they do another reboot, can we just skip the origin story this time? Everybody knows it by now.

Man gets bit by radioactive bat, gets superpowers, blah blah blah....

[megladon8]

I want the Justice League movie with Bale as Batman and Nolan behind the camera


The same way that I just can't see Robin in Nolan's Batman films, I really can't see the Nolan/Bale take on Batman being in a Justice League movie.

Yeah yeah, they mentioned Metropolis in Batman Begins, etc. etc. etc.

But when I watch the trailer for Green Lantern, I just cannot see this Batman existing in that same universe.

They need to create a new Batman to work in that world.

[Spun Lepton]

The same way that I just can't see Robin in Nolan's Batman films, I really can't see the Nolan/Bale take on Batman being in a Justice League movie.

Yeah yeah, they mentioned Metropolis in Batman Begins, etc. etc. etc.

But when I watch the trailer for Green Lantern, I just cannot see this Batman existing in that same universe.

They need to create a new Batman to work in that world.

Where's Joel Schumacher when you need -- (*AAAACCCK!!!*)

[megladon8]

Roland Emmerich's Batman!!

[Milky Joe]

Live Action Timmverse, please, then we'll talk.

[Dukefrukem]

Roland Emmerich's Batman!!

:o

Yes.

This.

[number8]

Man, fucking movie sites piss me of sometimes with this shit. If anyone bothered to read the original interview with Jeff Robinov that they're citing in their "ZOMG THEY'RE REBOOTING BATMAN" articles, Robinov was talking about reinventing a new non-Nolan Batman in a JUSTICE LEAGUE movie, which they're trying to release by 2013.

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/03/29/justice-league-the-movie-warner-chief-sets-sights-on-team-up-film-and-reinventing-batman/

They ain't rebooting shit. Come on.

[Ezee E]

Man, fucking movie sites piss me of sometimes with this shit. If anyone bothered to read the original interview with Jeff Robinov that they're citing in their "ZOMG THEY'RE REBOOTING BATMAN" articles, Robinov was talking about reinventing a new non-Nolan Batman in a JUSTICE LEAGUE movie, which they're trying to release by 2013.

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/03/29/justice-league-the-movie-warner-chief-sets-sights-on-team-up-film-and-reinventing-batman/

They ain't rebooting shit. Come on.
I basically don't believe any movie news unless it's on Variety, EW, or a legit newspaper (this does not count the New York Post). Sometimes they are wrong too, but not like a reboot Batman or the near shooting of a Tarantino movie.

[number8]

To be fair, that article is incredibly vague about it, but they were talking about Justice League and with the target date being so close, they're not going to have time to develop another Batman movie in the coming years.

Then again, even if they are rebooting Batman, is it really still news anymore? We knew from the very start that Nolan's not going to stick around for another Batman movie. So of course at some point down the line they're going to do another Batman movie without Nolan or Bale, which will effectively be a reboot, but a lot of these reports are making it sound like WB is already moving the gears on this shit.

[Morris Schæffer]

TDKR to be filmed in Pittsburgh!

[Ezee E]

blackandyellowblackandyellowbl ackandyellowblackandyellow

Yeah, you know what it is.

Only makes more sense to have this as the color scheme now.

[Ivan Drago]

Only makes more sense to have this as the color scheme now.

Nah, preferably Green and Yellow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oicSTRWH_i0).

[Dukefrukem]

Guess which villain is returning!!!!!!!!!!! (http://blastr.com/2011/04/guess-which-villain-is-re.php)

:p

[megladon8]

When I looked at the picture of the guy, I was like "they cast Hayden Christensen in this movie?"

[megladon8]

Why is Katie Holmes in the cast list for this on IMDb?

[Ezee E]

Why is Katie Holmes in the cast list for this on IMDb?
Because IMDB is akin to wikipedia.

[megladon8]

"So...what was almost unanimously panned with Batman Begins? Katie Holmes! You're right! But what if we bring her back...but as a different character!!! Give her a second chance with the audiences!"

[DavidSeven]

She was universally panned in Batman Begins? I thought she was fine. She had more chemistry with Bale than Gyllenhaal.

[megladon8]

She was universally panned in Batman Begins? I thought she was fine. She had more chemistry with Bale than Gyllenhaal.


You might be the first person I can remember who thought she was "fine".

I thought most everyone found her to be a weak point in the movie.

[Sycophant]

I was never clear on whether people hated her performance, or just Tom Cruise.

[Qrazy]

I thought Holmes was perfectly fine also and better than Gyllenhaal.

[megladon8]

I thought Holmes was perfectly fine also and better than Gyllenhaal.


http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4749/mothershipcatisnotamuse.jpg

[Ezee E]

Neither added anything to the movie. Neither hurt it either. They were both meh. And I think that's more the character then anything.

[Skitch]

I thought Holmes was fine in that she gave a typical poor performance as a young American female actor. Didn't bother me too much. Maggie, while being quite good in other films, was painfully out of place, and I haven't had a single home viewing where a friend didn't snicker when the Joker says, "And you ARE beautiful."

[number8]

I haven't had a single home viewing where a friend didn't snicker when the Joker says, "And you ARE beautiful."

The Joker has better taste in women than your friends.

[Skitch]

The Joker has better taste in women than your friends.

I've thought she looked good in other movies, but in TDK she looks drugged. And she's whiny.

[megladon8]

I think Maggie Gyllenhaal is very pretty.

[Ezee E]

She looked great in that one with Will Ferrell.

[transmogrifier]

Both were forced to play a totally superfluous character, so it seems pointless to judge how well they did depicting a void.

[MadMan]

Considering how strong his female characters were in Inception and Memento, its weird how the one female character in Nolan's Batman movies is quite weak and boring. I guess she served some kind of purpose in TDK...eh.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Both were forced to play a totally superfluous character, so it seems pointless to judge how well they did depicting a void.

Not totally superfluous. She helped net dozens more female viewers.

[Irish]

Considering how strong his female characters were in Inception and Memento, its weird how the one female character in Nolan's Batman movies is quite weak and boring. I guess she served some kind of purpose in TDK...eh.

Inception didn't have characters of either gender, just walking plot points. Memento was a two hour gimmick, so .. wait, what were we talking about?

Oh yeah, Batman. Jesus, look to the source material. Not exactly overflowing with strong female characters. Women in comics are there to deliver exposition (Hi, Oracle!), be a plot point (Hi, Lois!), or be an object of desire (Hi, Selena!).

Not surprising that the movies operate the same way.

[Irish]

Maggie, while being quite good in other films, was painfully out of place, and I haven't had a single home viewing where a friend didn't snicker when the Joker says, "And you ARE beautiful."

Some of your home viewers need to see Secretary.

[megladon8]

I think we all need to remember that Irish doesn't read comics ;)

[D_Davis]

Neither added anything to the movie. Neither hurt it either. They were both meh. And I think that's more the character then anything.

They were both thoroughly mediocre.

[megladon8]

They were both thoroughly mediocre.


He was talking about the character of Rachel Dawes, not your opinion on the movies themselves.

:P

[Irish]

I think we all need to remember that Irish doesn't read comics ;)

I've read enough, I guess, to know that complaining about weak female characters in movies based on them can only elicit a "well, duuuuuuh" kind of response. :P

[number8]

I've read enough, I guess, to know that complaining about weak female characters in movies based on them can only elicit a "well, duuuuuuh" kind of response. :P

So what you are saying is that you have not read enough?

[Irish]

So what you are saying is that you have not read enough?
How much is enough?

You can't seriously be making the argument that comics have strong female characters -- unless you think that a chick with big tits holding a katana counts.

[number8]

How much is enough?

Not sure, but I do know that Oracle, as the character she is, didn't start out in a Batman book (that would be Suicide Squad, where her role was far from exposition), didn't get popular in a Batman book (that would be Birds of Prey, where she was written as a strong and independent character, especially under Gail Simone's writing), and as such her limited and one-note role in Batman adventures is because the stories are rightly all about Batman and she's just one of many characters living in Gotham that he interacts with, who always have one or two other books she's more prominent in. So I was merely making a judgment based on my issue with your description of Oracle, the same way I would if you had said that the Frankenstein Monster as a whole is a silly and slapstick character because you watched Abbot and Costello Meet Frankenstein once, is all.

I could go into it about Lois and Catwoman too, but you get the idea.


You can't seriously be making the argument that comics have strong female characters -- unless you think that a chick with big tits holding a katana counts.

No, and I don't think a buff dude holding a katana would be a strong male character, either. Thankfully, there are a shitload of female comic book characters whose merits extend beyond their katana possession. Their mammaries may inflate or deflate depending on how good of an artist handled a particular issue, but that doesn't concern me much as a reader, just like I don't really complain much about how sexy Maggie Gyllenhaal looks.

What a weird thing to say.

[Irish]

I could go into it about Lois and Catwoman too, but you get the idea.

Heh! You should have, as I'm sure you could have pounded my argument into dust.

My argument about Lois and Selena are a lot more tenuous than about Oracle, who as you note is given a much more one-note treatment in Batman compared to say, some of other characters.

But it's interesting to me that you say "the stories are rightly all about Batman and she's just one of many characters living in Gotham that he interacts with."

You could make the same claim about, say, Lucius Fox or Gordon. But in the movies, those characters are given much more prominent roles. They actually get to do something important. Poor Maggie just gets tied to a chair. She operates barely above the level of macguffin.

And that's my criticism of the comics, which very often do the same thing to female characters, and especially of the movies.

[number8]

I have no love for the Rachel Dawes character, so I don't have anything to say about that, but given that she's a character created specifically for the movies, my bullshit meter had to go off when she's used as a barometer for strong female characters in comic books. In fact, the tendency to reduce females into perfunctory damsels in distress or hollow shashaying pieces of asses is more a Hollywood problem than a comic book problem to me.

[number8]

Changing my avatar to have Elektra in it, in order to negate my previous big-titted lady in katana argument.

[Derek]

I was never clear on whether people hated her performance, or just Tom Cruise.

I hated her performance, but only because she was awful.

[megladon8]

You can't seriously be making the argument that comics have strong female characters -- unless you think that a chick with big tits holding a katana counts.


...

You be trollin' here.

[Irish]

... You be trollin' here.

Not an argument, just a tired ad hominem. You can do better than that.

[megladon8]

Not an argument, just a tired ad hominem. You can do better than that.


Well you're presenting an argument that is both uninformed and without substantiation.

In other words, it's simply not the case, and you clearly haven't read "enough" comics, or you'd know better.

Like number8 said, I think the lack of strong female characters is more of a Hollywood problem than a comic book problem. I think I've encountered more strong, interesting female characters in comic books than I have in many films - at least mainstream American blockbusters.

I recommend reading Brubaker's "Catwoman" stuff, George Perez' "Wonder Woman" stuff, and "Y: The Last Man".

[Raiders]

Guys, guys... Catwoman has had her own film. With Halle Berry to boot. Female power represent.

[MadMan]

Inception didn't have characters of either gender, just walking plot points. Memento was a two hour gimmick, so .. wait, what were we talking about? Thanks, I really needed the laugh today. Never change, Irish, even when you are horribly wrong. Also, it appears that you and eternity should get a room :P

[Irish]

Well you're presenting an argument that is both uninformed and without substantiation.

In other words, it's simply not the case, and you clearly haven't read "enough" comics, or you'd know better.

Like number8 said, I think the lack of strong female characters is more of a Hollywood problem than a comic book problem. I think I've encountered more strong, interesting female characters in comic books than I have in many films - at least mainstream American blockbusters.

I recommend reading Brubaker's "Catwoman" stuff, George Perez' "Wonder Woman" stuff, and "Y: The Last Man".

I don't have the deep knowledge of it that number8 (and probably you) seem to have, I'll admit.

While I agree that movies have a huge problem with these characterizations, that doesn't preclude comics from having them in spades. In other words, comics don't get off the hook because movies are worse.

One off specials are a different kind of territory. I'm still not convinced, if you look at their history in blocks or as a whole, that characters like Catwoman and Wonder Woman rate as "strong females." My god, especially Wonder Woman, given her history.

[number8]

Wait, what? Her history? If you're talking about her early years, she was an extremely progressive character for her time, and was created by William Marston in tandem with his wife and the woman they were living a polygamist lifestyle with. She was specifically designed as a feminist propaganda to show that women are not only equal, but superior to men, and her one weakness (losing her powers when tied up by men) was a way to get the message out that women should not allow themselves to be subservient to men.